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SELECT 



SPEECHES 



THE RIGHT HONOURABLE 

WILLIAM "Windham, 



THE RIGHT HONOURABLE 

WILLIAM HUSKISSON: 

WITH 

PRELIMINARY BIOGRAPHICAL SKETCHES. 



EDITED BY 

ROBERT WALSH. 



PHILADELPHIA: 
EDWARD C. BIDDLE — 23 MINOR STREET. 

18 37. 



€^' 



Entered according to the Act of Congress, in the year 1836, by Edward 
C. BiDDLE, in the Clerk's Office of the District Court for the Eastern 
District of Pennsylvania. 



Printed by 
T. K. & P. G. COLLINS, 

No. 1 Lodge Alley, Phiiadclplii 



f9 'z 



In pursuance of the design announced in the 
advertisement to his Selection from the Speeches 
of Mr. Canning, the Editor now offers another 
volume of valuable Parliamentary Eloquence. 
The Speeches of Windham and Huskisson, of 
which the choice has been carefully made, are 
well worthy to follow those of the most illustrious 
orator and statesman of the nineteenth century. 

3 



BIOGRAPHICAL MEMOIR 

OF 

THE RIGHT HONOURABLE 

WILLIAM WINDHAM 



i ■ 



William Windham was the descendant of a line of ancestors 
■which is traced to a very remote period. The name is derived 
from a town in Norfolk, England, generally written Wymondhom, 
but pronounced Windham, at which place the family appears to 
have been settled as early as the eleventh, or the beginning of the 
twelfth century, Ailward de Wymondham having been a person 
of some consideration in the time of Henry the First. His pos- 
terity remained there till the middle of the fifteenth century, when 
one of them, in the reign of Henry the Sixth, purchased consi- 
derable estates on the north-east coast of Norfolk, in Felbrigg 
and its neighbourhood, which, from that time, became their prin- 
cipal residence. 

William Windham was born in 1750, on the 3d of May (old 
style), in Norfolk. At seven years of age, young Windham had 
been placed at Eton, where he remained till he was about six- 
teen ; distinguishing himself, by the vivacity and brilliancy of his 
talents, among school-fellows of whom many were afterwards 
highly eminent for their genius and acquirements. He was the 
envy of the school for the quickness of his progress in studv, as 
well as its acknowledged leader and champion in all athletic 
sports and youthful frolics. The late Dr. Barnard, then Head- 
master, and afterwards Provost of Eton College, used to remark 
when Fox and Windham had become conspicuous in the senate, 
that they were the last boys he had ever flogged. Their offence 
was, that of stealing off together to see a play acted at Windsor. 

On leaving Eton, in 176G, he was placed in the university of 
(1*) 



vi BIOGRAPHICAL MEMOIR OF 

Glasgow, under the tuition of Dr. Anderson, Professor of Natural 
History, and the learned Dr. Robert Sim son, the editor of Euclid. 
Here he remained about a year, having by diligent application to 
study laid the foundation of his profound mathematical acquire- 
ments. He was then removed to Oxford, where, in September 
1767, he was entered a gentleman-commoner of University col- 
lege, Sir Robert Chambers being his tutor. While at Oxford, he 
took so little interest in public affairs, that, it was the standing 
joke of one of his contemporaries, that " Windham would never 
know who was prime minister." This disinclination to a political 
life, added to a modest diffidence in his own talents, led him, at 
the period which is now spoken of, to reject an offer which, by a 
youth not more than twenty years of age, might have been con- 
sidered as a splendid one ; — that of being named secretary to his 
father's friend, Lord Townshend, who had been appointed Lord 
Lieutenant of Ireland. 

After four years' residence, he left Oxford in 177L He always 
retained feelings of gratitude towards Alma Mater, and preserved 
to the last an intimate acquaintance and correspondence with 
some of the most distinguished resident members. He did not, 
however, take his master's degree till 1783. That of doctor of 
laws was conferred on him in 1793, at the installation of the 
Duke of Portland. It is related that on this occasion, almost the 
whole assembly rose from their seats, when he entered the theatre, 
and received him with acclamations of applause. 

After leaving Oxford, he passed some time on the continent. 
In 1773 a voyage of discovery towards the North-Pole having 
been projected and placed under the command of the late Lord 
Mulgcave (then Commodore Phipps), Mr. Windham, with his 
characteristic ardour, joined as a passenger in the expedition. 
To his great mortification, however, a continued sea-sickness of 
an unusually severe and debilitating kind, rendered it necessary 
for him to be landed on the coast of Norway. Here, accompanied 
by a faithful servant, who had attended him from his childhood, 
he passed through a series of adventures and " hair-breadth 
'scapes," in which his courage and humanity were conspicuous. 
The recital of them might agreeably occupy a considerable 
space in a memoir less limited in its nature and extent than the 
present. 



THE HONOURABLE WnXIAM WINDHAM. y{[ 

His earliest essay as a public speaker was occasioned by a call 
which was made on the country, for a subscription in aid of 
Government, to be applied towards carrying on the war with our 
American colonies. It was on the 28th of January 1778, at a 
meeting of gentlemen of the county of Norfolk, held at Norwich, 
that Mr. Windham gave the first promise of that eminence which 
he afterwards attained as an orator and statesman. It will be 
sufficient in this place to notice, that the part which he took was 
in opposition to the subscriptions, and to the war itself; and that 
his friend and his father's friend, the first Marquis Townshend, 
who had himself proposed the measure of the subscription, bore, 
in his reply, the warmest testimony to the abilities, knowledge, 
eloquence, and integrity, of his young antagonist. 

Some time before the event which has been last noticed, he 
had entered himself as an officer in the western battalion of Nor- 
folk militia. In this character, he proved that he inherited the 
military turn and talents of his father, to whom the very corps in 
which he served had been so greatly indebted for its formation 
and discipline. But his useful services, as a militia officer, were 
soon brought to a close. It happened, on a march, that impru- 
dently, and in a sort of frolic, he joined twQ brother-officers in 
riding through a deep rivulet, after which they were obliged to 
keep on their wet clothes for many hours. The consequences of 
this adventure were fatal to one of the party, who died soon after- 
wards ; — Mr. Windham was thrown into a fever of a most 
alarming kind, from the effects of which it is certain that his con- 
stitution never thoroughly recovered. For many days he kept 
his bed at Bury St. Edmund's, without any hopes being entertain- 
ed of his recovery. At length, he was thought to have regained 
strength enough to undertake a tour on the Continent, which was 
recommended to him for the re-establishment of his health. He 
accordingly employed nearly two years of his life in a journey 
through Switzerland and Italy. 

From this tour he returned at a critical moment, in September 
1780. The Parliament had just been dissolved, and Sir Harbord 
Harbord (the late Lord Suffield), who had represented Norwich 
for more than twenty years, had been obliged to relinquish his 
hopes there, in consequence of a powerful coalition which his 



viii BIOGRAPHICAL MEMOIR OF 

colleague Mr. Bacon (one of the Lords of Trade) had formed 
with Mr. Thurlow, a citizen of the place, and a brother of the 
Lord Chancellor. But the friends of Sir Harbord being deter- 
mined not to give him up tamely, invited him back again, and 
placed him in nomination, jointly with Mr. Windham, whom they 
supposed to be then out of the kingdom, but whose vigorous 
speech against the American war had made so strong an impres- 
sion on them, that his absence had not weakened his popularity. 
It happened, singularly enough, that, without the least knowledge 
of what had just passed in his favour, he arrived at Norwich, in 
his way from London to Felbrigg, just three days before the poll 
commenced. It was too late, however, to secure his election ; 
but his colleague. Sir Harbord Harbord, was returned with Mr. 
Bacon ; while Mr. Windham, with all the disadvantages of his 
situation, had the satisfaction of counting a very respectable poll, 
as well as of securing warm assurances of support, whenever a 
future occasion might require it. 

Though he did not obtain a seat in Parliament, he lived, from 
this time, much in town, and connected himself with some of the 
most eminent political and literary men of the day. Before he 
made his tour to the Continent, he had become a member of the 
celebrated Literary Club. On his return, he cemented his friend- 
ships with the leading members of that Society, and more parti- 
cularly with its two most distinguished ornaments, Dr. Johnson 
and Mr. Burke. For the former, he entertained sentiments of the 
highest respect and regard, which the Doctor appears to have re- 
turned with equal warmth. The high commendation with which 
Johnson noticed him, in a letter to Dr. Brocklesby, though it has 
been often repeated, ought not here to be omitted. " Mr. Wind- 
ham," said he, " has been here to see me ; — he came, I think, forty 
miles out of his way, and staid about a day and a half; perhaps 
I may make the time shorter than it was. Such conversation I 
shall not have again till I come back to the regions of literature, 
and there Windham is inter stellas Luna minores." Mr. Burke, 
during a long-tried friendship, political and personal, found in Mr. 
Windham a faithful associate, and warm admirer. Their opinions 
seldom differed ; but on a highly important occasion, hereafter to 
be noticed, upon which they did difler, such was Mr. Windham's 



THE HONOURABLE WILLIAM WINDHAM. ix 

deference to the wisdom and experience of his friend, that he sur- 
rendered his judgment to Mr. Burke's. From his connexion with 
this eminent man, and with his old school-fellow Mr. Fox, he now 
became, though out of Parliament, a sort of member of the party- 
then in opposition, or rather of that branch of it of which the Mar- 
quis of Rockingham was considered as the leader. 

By the famous coalition of Mr. Fox and his friends with Lord 
North and the remains of the former ministry. Lord Shelburne, after 
effecting a general peace, was driven from his post in April 1783. 
Under the new ministry, of which the Duke of Portland was the 
nominal head, Mr. Windham accepted the office of Chief Secre- 
tary to the Earl of Northington, then appointed Lord Lieutenant 
of Ireland. An anecdote, which has been often repeated, is con- 
nected with his acceptance of this appointment. On his express- 
ing to his friend Dr. Johnson, some doubts whether he could bring 
himself to practise the arts which might be thought necessary in 
his new situation, the Doctor humorously replied, " Don't be 
afraid, Sir ; you will soon make a very pretty rascal." It appears, 
however, that Mr. Windham's doubts were not ill founded. He 
yielded up his secretaryship to Mr. Pelham (now Earl of Chi- 
chester) in August 1783, about four months after his appointment. 
Whatever may have been the cause of this resignation, which 
has, by other accounts, been attributed to ill health, it appears 
that on this, and on a former occasion, when he visited his friend, 
Lord Townshend, during his Vice-royalty, he was long enough 
in Ireland to form many valuable friendships, which lasted till his 
death. 

On the downfall of the coalition ministry, occasioned by Mr. 
Fox's famous bill for new modelling the government of India, a 
new cabinet was appointed at the close of 1783, with Mr. Pitt 
presiding at the Treasury. But the ex-ministers still retaining a 
considerable majority in the House of Commons, it was found 
necessary to dissolve the Parliament in March 1784. On this 
occasion, Mr. Windham claimed the promises of his friends at 
Norwich, but soon found that Mr. Fox and his party had lost 
much of their popularity in that city, as well as in most other 
parts of the kingdom ; particularly among the dissenters, by 
whom they had before been warmly supported. The question, 
(B) 



X BIOGRAPHICAL MEMOIR OF * 

too, of Parliamentary Reform, which had already stood in his 
way at Westminister, was become a highly popular one amongst 
his Norwich friends. Still he was not to be dismayed. On the 
contrary, his intrepidity rose with the ditficulties which threatened 
him ; for, besides avowing at a public meeting his dislike to the 
prevailing doctrines of Reform, he published a very manly address 
to the electors, in which he spurned the popularity to be acquired 
by a servile accommodation to changes of public opinion, and 
declared that he should, on all occasions, make his own dispas- 
sionate judgment the sole and fixed rule of his conduct. Danger- 
ous as it must at first have appeared, the boldness of this address 
(which gave a just presage of his future political course) met 
with a generous reward from those who could not approve of 
his public connexions ; and he had, on the result of the election, 
the satisfaction of being returned by a majority of sixty-four over 
his antagonist, the late Honourable Henry Hobart. In this con- 
test, his success was remarkable, for in almost every other election, 
the coalition party were totally defeated. In the county of Nor- 
folk, Mr. Windham warmly exerted himself in the cause of his 
friend Mr. Coke ; but that gentleman, notwithstanding the great 
influence he derived from his large property, and many estimable 
qualities, was driven from the field by the same cry which, in 
other places, proved fatal to Lord John Cavendish, General Con- 
way, Mr. Byng, and many other friends of Mr. Fox, who, by a 
humorous allusion to the book of that title, gained the appellation 
of " Fox's Martyrs." 

The ministers, however, were completely triumphant; their 
majorities in both houses were large and decisive ; and the oppo- 
sition, strong as they continued to be in talents, were so reduced 
in numbers, as to be no longer formidable in any other way than 
by occasionally putting the ministers to the necessity of defending 
themselves by argument. 

Mr. Windham made his first speech in Parliament on the 9th 
of February 1785, early in the second session after his election. 
Tlie question which occasioned this trial of his powers, was the 
celebrated one of the Westminster scrutiny. He rose imme- 
diately after Mr. Pitt had spoken on the other side, and he was 



THE HONOURABLE WILLIAM WINDHAM. xi 

followed by Mr. Fox, who congratulated the house " on the ac- 
cession of the abilities which they had witnessed." 

,In the course of the same session, Mr. Windham spoke in op- 
position to Mr. Pitt's Shop tax, which he pronounced to be partial, 
oppressive, and unjust, on the same grounds upon which he after- 
wards uniformly reprobated all bills that had for their object a 
taxation, not on the community at large, but on certain classes 
of men invidiously selected from it. 

We may now advert to the share which Mr. Windham took in 
the impeachment of Mr. W^arren Hastings, for his conduct while 
administering the government of India. This measure, though 
^considered in its time to be of the very first importance, is now 
only remembered by the unparalleled combination of talents called 
forth in the prosecution of it. Of the impeachment itself, it is 
perhaps needless to say more than merely to remark, that, though 
it was countenanced by Mr. Pitt, directed by Mr. Burke, and 
supported by almost unrivalled efforts of eloquence on the part 
of that extraordinary man, as well as of Mr. Sheridan, and Mr. 
Fox, it lingered on from session to session, till even its power to 
excite attention seemed exhausted; and it was at length dismissed 
almost to oblivion, by the very few peers who could be induced 
to give a vote upon it. The particular charge, however, which 
was entrusted to Mr. Windham's management, must be concisely 
noticed. It alleged perfidy and oppression in the Governor-Gene- 
ral, in the breach of a treaty which had been made with the Na- 
bob Fyzoola Khan in 1774, after his territories had been invaded 
by the Company's troops, and the sum of 150,000/. had been paid 
by him upon ratifying the Convention. The case, as it was stated, 
was certainly one which could not fail to call forth indignation 
from a man of whom a high sense of honour, and a warm sym- 
pathy with the injured, were striking characteristics. In main- 
taining this charge, Mr. Windham extended his parliamentary 
reputation; and throughout the proceedings against Mr. Hastings, 
he fought by the side of Mr. Burke, always ready as well as 
proud to defend him against the attacks which were personally, 
and sometimes coarsely, made upon him, as the acknowledged 
leader of the impeachment. 

Late in the autumn of 1788, the King became afflicted with 



xii BIOGRAPHICAL MEMOIR OF 

a return of that melancholy aberration of intellect, which incapa- 
citated him for the affairs of government. On this occasion, Mr. 
Windham warmly entered into the feelings, and supported the 
opinions, of his political friends, who contended, both for the he- 
reditary right of the Prince of Wales to assume the Regency, 
and, during that assumption, for his full enjoyment of the royal 
prerogatives, unfettered by restrictions. On each of these points 
however, the minister was triumphant. The right of the two 
Houses of Parliament " to provide means of supplying the defect 
of the royal authority," was recognized in a formal resolution ; 
and the Prince of Wales, by an exertion of this right, was to be 
empowered to administer the royal authority, under the title of 
Regent, subject to limitations, which restrained him from granting 
peerages, reversions, and offices for life ; but before the bill for this 
purpose had passed through the forms of the House of Lords, 
it was rendered unnecessary by the King's recovery, which was 
announced to parliament on the 10th of March 1789. 

In the session of 1790 (4th March) he gave his firm and de- 
cided opposition to Mr. Flood's motion for a Reform of Parlia- 
ment. It will be remembered that upon this question he had 
made up his mind at an early period ; and it will hereafter be 
seen, that the opinions he then formed remained unshaken to the 
close of his life. On the present occasion, he differed from Mr. 
Fox, and his principal political connexions in that house, Mr. 
Burke excepted. His speech was pronounced by Mr. Pitt to 
contain " much ingenuity, and, in some respects, as much wisdom 
and argument as he had ever heard in the walls of that house." 
Mr. Pitt, however, professed himself to remain, after the most 
mature deliberation, a firm and zealous friend to parliamentary 
reform ; though, fearing that the cause might suffer disgrace from 
its being brought forward at an improper moment, he recom- 
mended Mr. Flood to withdraw his motion. It appears, from 
parts of Windham's speech that, at this early stage of it, he fore- 
saw the results of the French Revolution. 

In June 1790, the parliament was dissolved, and Mr. Windham 
was again elected for Norwich, after a very slight opposition. 

During the first session of the new parliament, he strongly re- 
probated the conduct of the ministers, in relation to their arma- 



\ 



THE HONOURABLE WILLIAM WINDHAM. xiii 

ments against Spain and Russia, which had respectively been 
occasioned by disputes concerning the possession of Nootka 
Sound and Oczakow. On a renewal of the latter question, in the 
succeeding session, he again forcibly expressed his disapprobation 
of the measures which had been pursued by government. It 
should also be noticed, for the sake of recording hereafter a 
proof of the consistency of his sentiments on another subject, 
that in February 1791 he earnestly supported a hill which was 
brought into the House of Commons by Mr. Mitford (now Lord 
Redesdale), for the purpose of relieving from certain penalties 
and disabilities the protesting Catholic Dissenters of England. 

The French Revolution, though it cannot justly be said to have 
occasioned any change in the general turn of Mr. Windham's 
political opinions, had ultimately the effect of separating him from 
many of the persons with whom he had hitherto been acting. Of 
the commencement and early progress of it, he had been more 
than a common observer; he had, for a short time, been an actual 
spectator of the scene. We have already found, that at so early 
a period as March 1790, he was awake to the danger. Soon after 
that declaration of his sentiments, the memorable publication of 
Mr. Burke's " Reflections" produced what may be called a new 
division of the nation. To one part of Great Britain, it commu- 
nicated alarm and suggested precaution, while from the other, it 
served to call forth an avowal of opinions, which before were 
rather suspected as possible, than believed really to exist ; at least, 
to any considerable extent. The boldness of the answers to Mr. 
Burke (particularly of that by Paine, contained in his celebrated 
" Rights of Man") fully confirmed the apprehensions which had 
been raised, and marked out a definite line of boundary between 
what were now to be the two great parties of this country and 
the world. 

In the outset of life, Mr. Windham sacrificed his claims upon 
the representation of Westminster to his dislike of the prevailing 
doctrine of parliamentary reform ; and just before he obtained a 
seat for another place, he fairly and honourably told those who 
were about to choose him, that a subserviency to popular notions 
was not to be expected from him. The very question upon which 
he, at that time, differed from his constituents, was one in which 
(2) 



xiv BIOGRAPHICAL MEMOIR OF 

he took part with the aristocracy against the temporary clamours 
of the people. With sentiments of this nature, so broadly avow- 
ed, and so uniformly acted upon, he might justly have been re- 
proached with inconsistency, if he had now lent his authority to 
the approbation of French principles, or his voice to a cry for 
reform and revolution. On the contrary, he opposed both the 
principles and the cry, and took his stand by the side of Mr. Burke. 
Nor was he alone in this decision. The Duke of Portland, the 
Earls Fitzwilliam and Spencer, with many other persons of rank 
and character amongst the opposition, felt it to be their duty to 
support the government against the dangers with which the wide- 
spreading contagion of French example seemed in their judgment 
to threaten it. 

One of the first public manifestations of this feeling was occa- 
sioned by the Proclamation against Seditious Meetings, which 
was issued by Government in May 1792. This measure, which 
was decried by Mr. Fox and many of his friends, received, on 
the contrary, the full sanction, both in and out of Parliament, of 
the distinguished persons who have just been alluded to. At a 
public meeting in Norfolk, called for the purpose of voting an 
Address of Thanks to His Majesty for having sent forth this 
Proclamation, Mr. Windham took occasion to avow, in the most 
exphcit manner, his opinions on the questions which agitated the 
country. He rested his support to the Proclamation chiefly on 
the three following grounds : — the dissemination of writings tend- 
ing to render the people dissatisfied with their government — the 
existence of clubs, where delusive remedies were projected for 
supposed evils — and the correspondence of those clubs with others 
of the most dangerous character in Paris. 

The trials and executions of the unfortunate Louis and his 
Queen, were events which made a deep impression on Mr. Wind- 
ham, strengthening both his abhorrence of French principles, and 
his conviction of the necessity of opposing the progress of them 
by arms. In the sessions of 1793 and 1794, he gave, on every 
occasion, his unqualified support to the measures of Government 
for prosecuting the war, and for repressing seditious practices. 
And in the month of April in the latter year, he distinguished 
himself in Norfolk by eloquently recommending the measure of a 



\ 



THE HONOURABLE WIILLIAM WINDHAM. xv 

voluntary subscription, to be applied in the defence of the country. 
On this occasion, he was reminded of the conduct he had ob- 
served in 1778, with respect to subscriptions in aid of the Ameri- 
can war; and he defended himself by adverting to the striking 
difference that existed between the circumstances of the two 
contests. 

About this time, an offer was made by Mr. Pitt's administra- 
tion, to form a new cabinet which should include the leaders of 
the Whig Alarmists. This proposal Mr. Windham at first wished 
to be rejected ; thinking that his friends and himself, by continu- 
ing out of office, could give their support to the general objects 
of Government more effectually and independently than they 
could with seats in the cabinet ; and, at the same time, would be 
left more at liberty to declare their opinions respecting any par- 
ticular measures connected with the conduct of the war, upon 
which there were likely to be grounds of variance. Mr. Burke, 
however, thought differently ; his opinion was, that the usefulness 
of his friends to the country would depend on their being placed 
in situations which would give them a fair prospect of being able 
to direct the counsels of Government. His advice prevailed with 
the majority of those to whom the offer had been made, though 
not at first with the Duke of Portland. Arrangements were then 
proposed, under which Mr. Windham was to become one of the 
Secretaries of State ; but at length the Duke of Portland's reluc- 
tance to accept office having been overcome, it was thought pro- 
per, in consideration of his high rank and influence in the country, 
to place him in the office which had been intended for Mr. Wind- 
ham, the latter consenting to accept the inferior one of Secretary 
at War, with a seat in the cabinet. The distinction of a seat in 
the cabinet was first annexed to it on this occasion. 

In his new capacity, Mr. Windham vindicated the measures of 
government in parliament with a degree of warmth and openness 
which by some persons was censured as indiscreet. To that sort 
of discretion, indeed, which consists in dissembling opinions and 
feelings, Mr. Windham was an utter stranger. He thought that 
the common maxim, " honesty is the best policy," was as valua- 
ble in courts and cabinets as in the ordinary concerns of life. It 
is true that, by pursuing this conduct, he sometimes gave opportu- 



Xvi BIOGRAPHICAL MEMOIR OF 

nities to his adversaries to turn to his disadvantage any hasty or 
strong expressions which might fall from him in the course of a 
warm debate. Among those which were imputed to him, the 
greatest triumph was assumed by the opposition of the day from 
that of " perish commerce — let the constitution live." But it is 
curious enough that this remarkable sentiment, which was first 
charged on him in a pamphlet under the fictitious signature of 
Jasper Wilson, and was afterwards echoed and re-echoed through 
the country, had in fact never been uttered by him, but was owned 
by Mr. Hardinge. Mr. Windham, however, though he denied 
having spoken the words, justified the sentipnent, under the expla- 
nation which he gave of it, namely, a preference, as an alterna- 
tive, of government, order, and the British laws, above mere 
wearlth and commercial prosperity. 

In July 1795, an expedition, composed of emigrants, proceeded 
against Quiberon. For this project, which unhappily failed, Mr. 
Windham always held himself responsible. He thought it a most 
important object that an attempt should be made to assist the ef- 
forts of those Frenchmen who were strugghng at home against 
republicanism ; and he earnestly wished that such an experiment 
should be tried with a far greater force than was actually em- 
ployed in it. He always remained firmly of opinion that the 
royalist war in France had been too lightly considered by the 
British government ; and that if the tide had been " taken at the 
flood," the family of Bourbon might have been restored to the 
throne. 

Upon the dissolution of parliament in 1796, Mr. Windham was, 
for the fourth time, chosen member for Norwich. An opposition, 
however, of a much more formidable nature than that in 1794, 
was attempted in favour of Mr. Bartlett Gurney, a banker, of 
considerable local influence, who was defeated by a majority of 
only 83. Mr. Thelwall, the celebrated political lecturer, was at 
Norwich during this election, and endeavoured to sharpen the 
contest by his popular harangues in the market-place, against 
Mr. Windham, and the war-system of the Pitt administration. 

In the year 1797, Mr. Windham had to deplore the loss of his 
illustrious friend Mr. Burke, whose memory he ever regarded 
with the warmest affection, as well as the profoundest veneration. 



THE HONOURABLE WILLIAM WINDHAM. xvii 

He considered the extinction of such eloquence and wisdom, as 
a heavy misfortune to the country, in the difficulties with which it 
was then struggling. In a letter, dated 16th November 1797, he 
says, " I do not reckon it amongst the least calamities of the times, 
certainly not among those that aflect me least, that the world has 
now lost Mr. Burke. Oh ! how much may we rue that his coun- 
sels were not followed ! Oh ! how exactly do we see verified all 
that he has predicted !" 

Of Mr. Windham's political and pai'liamentary course, during 
the remainder of the period in which he continued in office with 
Mr. Pitt, it seems unnecessary to speak much in detail ; nor in- 
deed could it be done without entering into a historical relation 
of the events of the war, which would be quite inconsistent with 
the limited nature of the present narrative. It may be sufficient 
to observe generally, that he strenuously resisted every proposal 
which was made for seeking a peace with the French republic, as 
well as every measure which, under the specious name of Reform, 
tended, as he thought, to the subversion of the constitution. The 
union with Ireland at length indirectly occasioned the dissolution 
of the cabinet. Mr. Windham's own statement on this subject is 
so explicit and decisive that it may be proper to quote it here, 
with the view of explaining the grounds of his retirement from 
office. "When the proposition," said he, "for the union was 
first brought forward, I had strong objections to the measure, and 
I was only reconciled to it upon the idea that all disabilities 
attaching on the Catholics of Ireland were to be removed, and 
that the whole population would be united in interests and affec- 
tions. Believing this to be the case, and finding that impediments 
were started to this measure much stronger than I was prepared 
to apprehend, I relinquished the administration, because I thought 
the measure indispensable to the safety of this empire." His re- 
signation, which took place in February 1801, accompanied five 
of his colleagues; viz. Mr. Pitt, the Lord Chancellor (Loughbo- 
rough), Lord Grenville, Lord Spencer, and Mr. Dundas. In the 
new administration, Mr. Addington was placed at the head of 
the treasury, bearing of course the acknowledged character of 
prime minister. 

Mr. Windham had been in office nearly seven years, and du- 
(2*) (C) 



xviii BIOGRAPHICAL MEMOIR OF 

ring that time had effected many regulations by which the army 

was materially benefited. 

In the cabinet it appears that he had differed from Mr. Pitt and 
the majority of his colleagues, both with respect to the object and 
to the conduct of the war. He always broadly avowed the opi- 
nions which have been before referred to, and which were also 
maintained by Mr. Burke ; namely, that, the legitimate object of 
the war was the restoration of the House of Bourbon, and that 
this object could only be accomplished by giving liberal encour- 
agement to the exertions of the Royalists in France. That he 
was wrong with respect to the efficacy of those means, can hard- 
ly be inferred from any actual experience of facts; for the 
attempts which were made to succour the Royalists owed their 
failure to other causes than a want of energy in the persons in- 
tended to be benefited by them. 

He thought the war had been conducted with too little atten- 
tion to the purposes for which it had been originally undertaken ; 
— that it had become a war of shifts and expedients ; a contest 
for petty and remote objects, rather than for near and vital ones. 
These opinions he repeatedly expressed to some of his colleagues 
in long and detailed letters, which were in fact state-papers of a 
most valuable kind. 

During the prorogation of Parliament in 1801, the new minis- 
ters settled preliminaries of peace with France and her allies. 
This measure Mr. Windham regarded, not less in the terms than 
in the principle, as highly dangerous to the interests of the coun- 
try. On the first discussion of this subject, which was upon an 
Address of Thanks to the King, he was unable to deliver his sen- 
timents ; but on the following day, (Nov. 4th,) when the report 
of the Address was brought up, he pronounced the celebrated 
speech which he afterwards published in the form of a Pamphlet, 
subjoining to it an Appendix, valuable for the information it con- 
tains, as well as for the vigour with which it is composed. 

The definitive treaty, which was ratified a few months after- 
wards, he considered to be even more censurable than the pre- 
liminaries had been; and in conformity with this opinion, he 
moved an Address to the King on the 13th of May 1802, deplo- 
ring the sacrifices which had been submitted to by the treaty, and 



THE HONOURABLE WILLIAM WINDHAM xix 

expressing apprehensions for tlie safety of the empire, in the im- 
mense accession of territory, influence, and power which had 
been confirmed to France. He prefaced this Address with an 
eloquent and powerful speech, but after a debate which occupied 
two evenings the motion was negatived by 278 votes against 22, 
including tellers. Lord Grenville moved a similar address in the 
House of Lords, which was rejected by 122 against 16. So po- 
pular was the Peace of Amiens, that only 16 peers and 22 com- 
moners could be found to disapprove of it ! Mr. Pitt and Mr. 
Fox, though on different grounds, were found amongst its sup- 
porters. 

Mr. Windham fell a victim to the intrepidity he had shown in 
opposing this darling measure. After having represented Norwich 
for eighteen years, he lost his seat to Mr. William Smith, who had 
been invited thither to oppose him. 

He took his seat for the borough of St. Mawes, which the 
kindness of the Grenville family had secured for him as a retreat, 
in the event of a repulse at Norwich. His friends at the latter 
place, though his political connexion with them no longer existed, 
were unwilling to extinguish all recollection of it. They celebra- 
ted his birth-day by annual meetings, which were fully attended ; 
and they gave themselves the additional satisfaction of placing 
in their public hall, by means of a subscription, a well-executed 
portrait of him. 

When the renewal of war appeared inevitable, he opposed 
with considerable warmth, the measure which Mr. Fox recom- 
mended, of seeking an adjustment of differences through the me- 
diation of Russia ; and he urged, on the contrary, the immediate 
adoption of the most vigorous means for the defence of the 
country. Of this description, however, he did not consider the 
measure proposed by the ministers for raising, by a scheme of 
ballot and substitution, what was called an Army of Reserve; 
nor was he disposed to approve of the indiscriminate employment 
of a large and expensive establishment of volunteers. His 
speeches on these subjects not only contain some of the most 
amusing specimens of his eloquence, but may be regarded, per- 
haps, as valuable essays on military topics, from w^hich those 
who remain unconvinced by his arguments, may glean much 



XX BIOGRAPHICAL MEMOIR OF 

useful information, conveyed to them in a pleasing and popular 

form. 

To the volunteers he was falsely represented as an enemy. He 
admired and uniformly extolled the spirit which they manifested 
in the moment of danger ; as well as their total disregard of per- 
sonal inconvenience and privations. But while he admitted their 
usefulness if employed as light independent bodies, trained as 
marksmen, and not clogged with the disciphne of regulars, he 
lamented to see them formed into battalions, and attempted to be 
forced by a kind of hot-bed into troops of the line. To hang on 
the rear of an invading enemy, to cut off his supplies, to annoy 
him from concealed points by keeping up an irregular fire, were 
services which he conceived volunteers might easily learn and 
skilfully execute ; but the steady and exact discipline which is re- 
quired from troops destined to face an enemy in the field of battle, 
he thought their previous habits, unsuitable avocations, and scanty 
means of instruction, would totally forbid them from attaining. 

A motion made by Mr. Pitt, on the 15th of March 1804, for 
an enquiry into the state of the navy, had the effect of uniting 
in its support his own friends with those of the Grenvilles, 
Mr. Windham, and Mr. Fox ; — and though it was negatived by a 
majority of 71, an opinion began rather generally to prevail that 
Mr. Addington's administration was not long-lived. In its stead, 
the country seemed to expect that a ministry would be formed on 
a broader basis, uniting all the parties then in opposition, and 
having in its cabinet the two great rival leaders who had for 
twenty years divided the suffrages of the nation. 

On the 11th of April, upon the third reading of the Irish Militia 
Bill, another trial of strength took place, in which the numbers 
of the allied oppositionists appproached very near to those of the 
ministers ; being 107 against 128. 

The ministers, however, fell only by repeated attacks. On the 
23d of April, Mr. Fox moved for a committee to consider of mea- 
sures for the defence of the country. This motion received the 
support of Mr. Pitt and Mr. Windham, and of their respective 
friends, amounting in all to 204 against 256. A division, two days 
afterwards, on the Irish Militia Bill, proved still less favourable 
to the ministers, who could count only 240 votes against 203. 



THE HONOURABLE WILLIAM WINDHAM. xxi 

By these latter divisions, the fate of Mr. Addington's administra- 
tion was decided. Mr. Pitt, in submitting a list of names to the 
royal consideration, not only included that of Mr. Fox, but is 
said to have earnestly and warmly recommended his admission 
into the new cabinet. But the attempt proved unsuccessful, and 
Lord Grenville, Lord Spencer, and Mr. Windham declined, in 
consequence, to take their seats in a cabinet which was not to be 
formed on the extensiv'e plan of including the heads of all the 
parties who had been acting together in opposition. Mr. Pitt, 
however, accepted the premiership, taking with him Lord Mel- 
ville, and others of his immediate political friends, to whom were 
joined Lord Hawkesbury, Lord Castlereagh, the Duke of Port- 
land, Lord Eldon, and some other members of the preceding 
cabinet. 

Mr. Windham was now once more the ally of Mr. Fox, and 
the adversary of Mr. Pitt ; — a situation which exposed him to a 
charge of inconsistency. In June 1804, soon after the change of 
administration, Mr. Pitt brought forward his Additional Force 
Bill, more generally known afterwards by the name of the " Pa- 
rish Bill," the recruiting under its provisions being intended to be 
effected by parish officers. Mr. Windham opposed it in two able 
speeches. The bill, however, passed both houses. 

In the course of the ensuing session, (21st of February 1805,) 
he called the attention of the house, in a long and luminous speech, 
to the state of the defence of the country ; but on this question 
the minister was again triumphant. He also took occasion, on 
the 14th of May following, to pronounce his opinion in favour of 
the claims of the Catholics of Ireland. This was a topic which 
^e had much at heart. 

The remainder of the session of 1805 was chiefly occupied by 
the proceedings against Lord Melville, in which Mr. Windham 
took but little part. He concurred, indeed, in the several votes 
for inquiry, but declined taking a personal share in it, considering 
himself disqualified for such a duty by " the official connexion 
which he had had with Lord Melville, the social intercourse 
thence arising, and the impression made on his mind by the many 
amiable and estimable qualities which the Noble Lord was known 
to possess. 



Xxii BIOGRAPHICAL MEMOIR OF 

The expectation of a vacant seat for the University of Oxford, 
occasioned, in the summer of 1805, an active canvass for Mr. 
Windham on the part of his friends, who were naturally desirous 
that one of the most honourable distinctions which the Univer- 
sity could bestow, should be conferred on so celebrated a member 
of it. The prospect of such a seat was, on every account, highly 
desirable to Mr. Windham, but the vacancy did not then take 
place; and when it afterwards occurred, he had engaged himself 
in a contest for Norfolk. 

In the succeeding month, Mr. Windham shared deeply in the 
feelings of the country on the loss of Lord Nelson, whom he 
valued as a personal friend, and highly admired as the greatest 
ornament of his profession. 

Lord Nelson's death was speedilj' followed by Mr. Pitt's ; — an 
event which is believed to have been hastened by the calamitous 
issue of the grand continental confederacy against France. At 
the opening of the session, on the 21st of January 1806, Mr. 
Pitt was Uving, but in a state that afforded no hope of recovery. 
On Mr. Pitt's death, a change of administration was naturally 
looked for. 

The change which w^as expected took place in the beginning 
of the ensuing month. Lord Grenville being commanded by the 
King to form a new administration. He was himself placed at 
the head of the treasury, as prime minister. Earl Spencer, Mr. 
Fox, and Mr. Windham, received respectively the seals of the 
home, the foreign, and the war and colonial departments. 

The earliest and chief object of Mr. Windham's attention, on 
his attaining office, was to arrange and bring forward measures 
for increasing the military means of the country. His measures 
having been finally settled in the cabinet, he stated the purport 
of them to the House of Commons on the 3d of April 1806, in 
a speech which Mr. Fox pronounced to be one of the most elo- 
quent ever delivered in parliament, and which, though it occupied 
very near four hours in the delivery, seemed not to be thought too 
long by any of his auditors. 

To better the condition of the soldier was his great and lead- 
ing principle for increasing the regular force of the country. To 
hold out periods for the termination of the soldier's services, and 



THE HONOURABLE WILLIAM WINDHAM. xxiii 

to recompense those services by additional rewards, were the 
means by which he sought to accompHsh this improvement : — 
and the immediate effect which he expected to produce, was, the 
rendering of the army more inviting as a profession, from its be- 
ing more advantageous in a prudential view, and consequently 
more respectable, on account of the better description of persons 
who might thus be induced to engage in it. The soldier, in short, 
was to serve an apprenticeship to arms, as to a trade, and then 
either to follow it up, or to relinquish it, at his option ; but was to 
be entitled to additional benefits, if he should be disposed to con- 
tinue his services. These were the main objects of his measures, 
which included, however, many subordinate regulations. 

His measures, under the form of various bills, passed through 
both Houses of Parliament, with considerable majorities. A libe- 
ral and immediate addition to the pensions of non-commissioned 
officers and privates, in certain cases, was carefully provided for. 

In the summer of 1806, Mr. Fox, whose health had been de- 
clining from the time of his accepting office, found a grave near 
that of his illustrious rival. His loss was deeply lamented by 
Mr. Windham, whose personal regard for him had perhaps never 
wholly ceased, but had certainly been fully restored upon their 
recent political reconciliation. This event, besides the regret which 
it produced, happened to be the occasion of some embarrassment 
to him. In consequence of an arrangement which was proposed 
in the cabinet respecting the appointment to certain offices (but 
not affecting his own, which was to remain as before), the accept- 
ance of a peerage was very strongly pressed upon him by his 
colleagues, and very resolutely refused by him. Convenient as the 
measure might have been to him, with a view to avoid the ex- 
pense of future elections, (particularly of a contest in Norfolk, 
where a canvass had actually been begun for him,) he would not 
for an instant suffer considerations of this kind to influence his 
decision. He felt that his usefulness to the country depended not 
a little on his station in the House of Commons ; and he would 
have cheerfully relinquished his office, rather than wear the 
honours which were to be thrust upon him. In consequence of 
his refusal, another arrangement w^as fixed upon : Lord Howick 
succeeded Mr. Fox as foreign secretary, and Mr. Thomas Gren- 
ville took his seat at the admiraltv. 



Xxiv BIOGRAPHICAL MEMOIR OF 

In October 1806, the parliament was dissolved. 

Mr. Windham having been previously returned not only for 
Norfolk but for the borough of New Rowney, now took his seat 
for the latter place. 

Soon after the meeting of the new parliament, Mr. Windham 
found a welcome opportunity of giving full expression to those 
chivalrous feelings with which the successful exertions of British 
valour never failed to inspire him. In his official capacity, he 
had to call the attention of the House of Commons to the victory 
which had been gallantly achieved on the Plains of Maida, by a 
small body of troops under the command of Sir John Stuart. As 
the task was grateful to him, he executed it in a manner which 
made the most lively impression on his auditors. 

It was during Mr. Windham's absence in Norfolk, that Lord 
Howick called the attention of the House of Commons to a clause 
which was intended by the ministers to be introduced into the 
Mutiny Bill, for enabling Roman Catholics to hold a certain mili- 
tary rank, and permitting to all persons in the army professing 
that religion the uncontrolled exercise of it. It was afterwards 
thought expedient that the intended provisions should be made the 
subject of a separate bill, and be extended to the navy. The mis- 
understanding which this measure occasioned between the King 
and his ministers, and the consequent dismissal of the latter from 
their posts, are subjects that need not be minutely treated of It 
will be sufficient to relate, that on the 25th of March 1807, when 
called upon with the other ministers to deliver up his appointments, 
Mr. Windham received a flattering assurance of the sense which 
the King entertained of the motives that had guided him in execu- 
ting the duties of his office. 

In the very short period of a year and six weeks, Mr. Wind- 
ham had done much for the benefit of the army. He had abol- 
ished service for life, and substituted service for periods ; — he had 
increased the pay of the subaltern, as well as the ultimate rewards 
of the private soldier ; — and (though circumstances had delayed 
the execution of it) he had passed a measure for arming and 
training a great part of the population of the country. 

The Duke of Portland was placed at the head of the new ad- 
ministration. Lord Castlereagh, whom Mr. Windham had sue- 



THE HONOURABLE WILLIAM WINDHAM. xxv 

ceeded in the war and colonial department, again received the 
seals of that office; and Lord Havvkesbury, Mr. Canning, and 
Mr. Perceval occupied the other prominent situations in the new 
cabinet In two successive divisions, the ministers succeeded in 
negativing the motions which had been brought forward for cen- 
suring the means of their attaining office. Their success, however, 
was not so decided, as to render the continuance of the parlia- 
ment advisable. It was, therefore, dissolved on the 28th April 
1807, in its first session, and within five months after it had as- 
sembled. 

In the first debate of the new parliament he made a vigorous 
stand against the clamour of " no popery," which he complained 
had been raised against him and his late colleagues. Soon after- 
wards he gave his decided opposition to Lord Castlereagh's bill 
for allowing a proportion of the militia to transfer their services 
into the line, by enlisting at their option either for periods or for 
life. This he considered as a fatal interruption of his measures 
which parliament had sanctioned in the preceding year. At the 
conclusion of the session he brought forward, in the shape of pro- 
positions, a summary view of the advantages which had already 
been derived from the system of recruiting for periods. 

The expedition which was sent against Copenhagen, in the sum- 
mer of 1807, received his decided disapprobation. 

Early in the summer of 1808, the eyes of all Europe were di- 
rected towards Spain, where a gallant spirit broke forth, such as 
few persons perhaps besides Mr. Windham had harboured a hope 
of. His anticipation of it is found in a speech occasioned by the 
capture of Monte- Video, and delivered on the 16th of April 1807, 
more than a twelvemonth before the commencement of the resist- 
ance which he contemplated. From the first notice of this re- 
sistance to the latest period of his life, he was a zealous Spaniard. 

He not only took the most lively interest in the proceedings of 
the patriots, but even promised himself an opportunity of becoming 
a personal witness of them, by undertaking a voyage to the scene 
of action. 

He returned to Parliament after the commencement of the 
session of 1809. Mr. Wardle had previously brought forward his 
charges in the House of Commons, against the Duke of York, as 
(3) (D) 



xxvi BIOGRAPHICAL MEMOIR OF 

Commander in Chief, and the evidence in support of them had 
been proceeded upon. This investigation, which occupied much 
of the time and attention of the House, having at length been 
brought to a close, Mr. Windham, on the 14th of March, pronoun- 
ced his judgment on the question, in a speech which certainly de- 
serves the praise of great moderation, as well as of extraordinary 
acuteness. He lamented that the charges had been brought for- 
ward, and strongly reprobated the manner in which they had been 
attempted to be supported ; but though he acquitted the Duke of 
York of any participation or connivance in the disgraceful trans- 
actions which had been laid open, and was therefore ready to 
negative the address which Mr. Wardle had proposed, yet he 
thought that the suspicions which were feU, and would continue 
to be felt, by the country, were such as to render it desirable that 
His Royal Highness should withdraw from office. 

This speech, as it did not exactly fall in with the opinions of either 
party, has not hitherto perhaps received all the commendation it 
deserves. The distinctions laid down in it, on the degree of credi- 
bility due to certain descriptions of evidence, will be acknow- 
ledged, perhaps, on examination, to be not less profound than inge- 
nious. It might be difficult to find in any professional treatise on 
the doctrine of evidence, such an union of logical accuracy with 
minute knowledge of mankind as was on this occasion applied to 
the subject by Mr. Windham. 

In the course of this session, the bill proposed by Mr. Curwen, 
for preventing the sale of seats in parliament, afforded him an 
opportunity of discussing at considerable length the general ques- 
tion of Reform, against which his protest had been frequently and 
forcibly given. This speech, for close observation of human na- 
ture, and for vigour of imagination, is not to be excelled by any 
in the present collection. 

Lord Erskine's Bill for preventing Cruelty to Animals he oppo- 
sed with equal wit and argument. 

The failure of the Walcheren Expedition was followed by pro- 
ceedings in the cabinet which led to the resignation of Lord Cas- 
tlereagh and Mr. Canning. A formal offer was now made by Mr. 
Perceval, on the part of the ministers, to Lords Grenville and 
Grey, to receive them, with their friends, as members of the 



THE HONOURABLE WILLIAM WINDHAM. xxvii 

administration. The proposal, however, was rejected, and the 
answer, as well as the note in whicii the offer was conveyed, 
were afterwards made public. 

The administration did, however, go on, as Mr. Windham ex- 
pected and hoped. Mr. Perceval became First Lord of the 
Treasury upon the death of the Duke of Portland ; the Marquis 
Wellelsey succeeded Mr. Canning in the foreign department ; 
and the Earl of Liverpool accepted the seals of the war and 
colonial office, which had been resigned by Lord Castlereagh. 

He returned to town soon after Christmas, and at the com- 
mencement of the session of 1810 was at his post. He took an 
early occasion to express in very strong terms his disapprobation 
of the object and conduct of the expedition to the Scheldt. 

The part which he took on a subsequent question exposed him 
to much temporary unpopularity. In the prosecution of the en- 
quiry which the House of Commons instituted on the subject of 
the Scheldt Expedition, Mr. Yorke thought it necessary to move 
daily the standing order for excluding strangers. This measure 
was reprobated by Mr. Sheridan, who proposed that the standing 
order should be referred to a committee of privileges. Mr. Wind 
ham, who had always professed to dislike the custom of reporting 
debates in the newspapers, not only warmly opposed Mr. Sheri- 
dan's motion, but used some expressions by which the reporters 
in the gallery considered themselves to be personally calumniated. 
Their resentment, as might be expected, broke forth in daily 
attacks on him in the public prints; and they soon came to a 
formal agreement that his speeches should no longer be reported. 
For these marks of vengeance, Mr. Windham had fully prepared 
himself, and he imputed no blame to those who inflicted them. 
To the honour of the conductors of the daily press, it should be 
remembered that, a few months afterwards, they buried their re- 
sentments in the grave of their illustrious adversary, and joined 
with the public in lamenting the loss of his talents and virtues. 

By the temporary exclusion of Mr. Windham's speeches from 
the newspapers, some valuable ones have been wholly lost, while 
of others there have been preserved only a few slight and unsat- 
isfactory fragments. Only one, and that a very short one remains 
entire, namely, his eulogium on the character and conduct of the 



xxviii BIOGRAPHICAL MEMOIR OF 

Roman Catholics of England. From that body (whose claims 
it will be remembered, received his warm support in 1790) he now 
presented two petitions, praying, in loyal and respectful language, 
for the removal of the pains and disabilities to which they were 
liable by law, on account of their religious principles. 

Another speech, which he made in support of Lord Porches- 
ter's motion, censuring the expedition against the Scheldt, is re- 
presented, by those who heard it, to have been one of the most 
eloquent ever delivered in Parliament. It arrested and fully re- 
compensed the attention of the house for nearly two hours. He 
was urged by some of his friends to prepare it for publication in 
the form of a pamphlet ; but his answ^er was, that as the subject 
was temporary, so was the speech, and he felt no anxiety to pre- 
serve it. 

In the proceedings of the House of Commons against Sir 
Francis Burdett, for a breach of their privileges, Mr. Windham 
stood forward in maintaining what he conceived to be the rights 
of Parliament, and concurred in the vote, which was finally agreed 
upon, for committing Sir Francis a prisoner to the Tower. His 
speech, on this occasion, is said to have been a highly animated 
one, but no part of it has been preserved. 

The practice of mutilating the printed reports of parliamentary 
proceedings continued but for little more than two months; after 
which Mr. Windham's speeches were again suffered to appear, 
as well as Mr. Tierney's, which had shared in the proscription 
made by the reporters. On the 1st of May 1810, we find Mr. 
Windham opposing the second reading of a bill which had been 
brought in by Sir Samuel Romilly, as part of his plan for reduc- 
ing the number of capital punishments. This Mr. Windham con- 
sidered as a measure of dangerous innovation, and in resisting it, 
he took occasion to avow his belief that the mischievous effects 
of the French Revolution had not yet ceased. That Revolution, 
he said, had still an existence, — " it was above us, and beneath 
us; — it was without us, and within us; — it was everywhere 
round about us." The bill was lost by a majority of two. 

He spoke for the last time in the House of Commons, on the 
11th of May 1810. The question before the house was, the course 
which it would be expedient to take in relation to the actions 



THE HONOURABLE WILLIAM WINDHAM. xxix 

which had been brought against the Speaker and the Serjeant at 
Arms by Sir Francis Burdett, Mr. Windham, as it will be 
readily conceived, asserted the dignity of Parliament, and the 
sacredness of its privileges. 

A painful narrative remains to be related. The calamitous 
event which caused Mr. Windham's last illness took place a few 
months previous to the period down to which the circumstances 
of his political life have just been carried. It was about midnight, 
on the 8th of July 1809, that in walking home from an evening 
party, he observed a house in Conduit-Street to be on fire. He 
hastened to the spot, to render his assistance, and found that the 
house in flames was so near to that of his friend, the Honourable 
Frederick North, as to threaten its destruction. Knowing that 
Mr. North, (who was then on a voyage in the Mediterranean) 
possessed a most valuable library, Mr. Windham determined, with 
the assistance of some persons belonging to a volunteer corps, 
whom he selected from the crowd, to make an eff'ort for the pre- 
servation of it. After four hours' labour, four-fifths of the books 
were saved. He did not quit the house till the flames, which 
finally consumed it, had spread so extensively as to render his 
further exertions highly dangerous. During the time that he was 
employed in this arduous undertaking, it happened, most unfor. 
tunately, that, by a fall, he received a blow on the hip, but not of 
so painful a nature as to occasion any relaxation of his efforts. 
He complained, not of the hurt he had received, but of a cold 
which was the consequence of his exposure to the weather, the 
night having been very rainy. His cold continued to be very 
troublesome to him for some time, but from the blow on his hip, 
he, for many months, appeared to suffer no inconvenience whatever, 
though it occasioned a tumour which, in the following spring, had 
increased to considerable size. 

In May 1810, Mr. Windham found it necessary to give his se- 
rious attention to the tumour which had been thus collected. Mr. 
Cline (whom he had consulted upon it two months before) gave 
it as his opinion that, in order to prevent dangerous consequences, 
an immediate operation was necessary ; — and his advice was con- 
firmed by that of four out of six eminent surgeons whom Mr. 
Windham separately consulted. It is not at all surprising, there- 
(3*) 



XXX BIOGRAPHICAL MEMOIR OF 

fore, that Mr. Windham, whose courage was on all occasions 
remarkable, should have determined on submitting at once to the 
dangers of the knife, rather than linger on in doubt and appre- 
hension. 

He arrived in London on Friday the 11th of May. On the fol- 
lowing Sunday, he attended at the Charter-house, and received 
the sacrament, which was administered to him privately by the 
Reverend Dr. Fisher, the master of that institution, with whom 
he had been intimately acquainted from his youth. The remain- 
ing days, before the operation was to take place, he employed in 
arranging papers, in making a codicil to his will, and in writing 
many letters, some of which were addressed to his nearest rela- 
tives, to be opened in case the event proved fatal to him. 

On Thursday, the 17th of May 1810, the operation was per- 
formed by Mr. Lynn, in the presence of Dr. Blane, Mr. Home, 
and Mr. Pilliner, Mr. Windham's apothecary. The tumour was 
skilfully extracted, but having been very deeply seated, and at- 
tached to the ligaments of the hip joint, the operation was neces- 
sarily painful. Mr. Windham, however, bore the pain with the 
greatest resolution ; and, during a pause occasioned by a consult- 
ation upon the necessity of making a further incision, he even 
joked with his perilous situation. The tumour proved to be 
schirrous, of the shape of a turkey's egg, but even larger. For 
a few days, appearances were not unfavourable, though the 
wound did not heal with what is called the first intention, and 
though Mr. Windham suffered greatly from restlessness and an 
irritable state of the nerves. But the hopes even of his most san- 
guine friends, soon began to give way. A symptomatic fever 
came on, and upon the ninth day he was pronounced to be in 
great danger. On the following day the symptoms were judged 
to be less unfavourable, but others of an alarming kind soon suc- 
ceeded, and the medical attendants (to whom were now added 
Dr. Baillie and Sir Henry Halford) no longer entertained hopes 
of his recovery. From this time, the fever abated, the pulse be- 
came firmer and better, and the patient even began to take and 
enjoy nourishment ; yet, in spite of these otherwise flattering cir- 
cumstances, the state of the wound, which had never suppurated, 
and the total inability of nature to make any effort towards re- 



THE HONOURABLE WILLIAM WINDHAM. xxxi 

lieving it, were symptoms that excited no feelings but those of 
despair. 

While he lay in this hopeless condition, nothing could exceed 
the concern which was expressed by almost all classes of the in- 
habitants of London ; nor was this sentiment narrowed by party 
feelings, for every man who spoke of him seemed to be his friend. 
From the commencement of his illness, the number of anxious 
enquirers who had thronged the door to obtain a sight of the daily 
reports of the physicians, would almost be thought incredible. 
Among those who shared in these feelings, was the King, who 
took every opportunity of making enquiries of the physicians 
concerning Mr. Windham's illness, pronouncing him (as he had 
done on a former occasion) to be a *' real patriot and a truly 
honest man." 

On Sunday, the 3d of June, his dissolution appeared to be fast 
approaching. He expired, without pain or emotion, the next 
morning (Monday, June the 4th). He had just completed the six- 
tieth year of his age. 

In his person he was tall and well proportioned. Having in his 
youth been eminently skilful in manly exercises, he had thence 
acquired in his deportment a happy union of strength and ease, 
of agility and gracefulness, which never forsook him. The form 
of his features was singularly interesting ; and the penetrating 
vivacity of his eye gave a faithful indication of the corresponding 
qualities of his mind. 

His address and conversation were fascinating to all classes of 
persons ; — as well to the grave as to the gay — to the uninformed 
as to the learned — to the softer as to the sterner sex. His manners 
delighted all circles, from the royal drawing-room to the village- 
green ; though in all circles they were still the same. As the 
polish of his address was not artificial, it was alike pleasing to all. 
No man had ever less pride, in its oflensive sense. 

Of his acquirements it is needless to speak much at length. 
That he was " a scholar, and a ripe and good one," there are 
abundant testimonies to prove ; nor did his classical attainments, 
great as they were universally allowed to be, exceed his skill in 
the various branches of mathematical science. That skill the pub- 
lic, it is hoped, will be enabled to appreciate at some future time, 



SXXii BIOGRAPHICAL MEMOIR OF 

by the publication of the manuscript treatises which are in the 
hands of his executors. His reading latterly was miscellaneous 
and desultory; but what he hastily acquired, he actually retained 
and aptly applied in illustration of his opinions and arguments. 

It now remains to speak of his domestic virtues, in doing which 
it will be difficult to use any other language than that of unquali- 
fied eulogium. His tenderness as a husband and relative, his 
kindness as a friend and patron, his condescending attention to 
inferiors, his warm sympathy with the unfortunate, are so many 
themes of praise, which it would be more agreeable than neces- 
sary to dwell upon. The sense which he entertained of the im- 
portance of religion, and which he strongly marked by one of the 
concluding acts of his life, will serve to complete the character of 
a man who had scarcely an enemy, except on political grounds, 
and had more personal friends warmly attached to him, than al- 
most any man of the age. 

In the House of Lords, on the 6th of June 1810, in a debate on 
the Question for referring to a Committee of the whole house 
the Petitions of the Roman Catholics of Ireland, Earl Grey said. 
Within the last four years they had lost two great statesmen, 
Mr. Fox and Mr. Pitt, to whom, above all others, he could safe- 
ly affirm, the different political descriptions in the country looked 
up for that wisdom in council and energy in execution, so neces- 
sary in any pressing emergency of public affairs. To these was 
now added the third loss, the subject of their present lamentations. 
It was unnecessary to say that he alluded to the late Mr. Wind- 
ham. It was his misfortune at different times to differ from that 
distinguished and regretted character, yet in the heat of political 
disagreement, he never ceased to admire his many and splendid 
virtues. — He was a man of a great, original, and commanding 
genius — with a mind cultivated with the richest stores of intellec- 
tual wealth, and a fancy winged to the highest flights of a most 
captivating imagery ; of sound and spotless integrity (hear ! hear !), 
with a warm spirit, but a generous heart (hear! hear!), and of 
a courage and determination so characteristic, as to hold him for- 
"ward as the strong example of what the old English heart could 
effect or endure. He was such a man, that his adversary, if there 
was any man worthy to be his adversary, must respect him. He 



THE HONOURABLE WILLIAM WINDHAM. xxxiii 

had, indeed, his faults, but they served like the skilful disposition 
of shade in works of art, to make the impression of his virtues 
more striking, and gave additional grandeur to the greUt outline 
of his character. 

Lord Milton rose, and in a tone which the strength of his feel- 
ings frequently rendered inaudible, spoke to the following effect : 
— In moving, Sir, for a new writ for Higham Ferrers, I feel it to 
be my duty to speak of that illustrious man whose death has oc- 
casioned the present motion. It would have been better if the 
performance of that duty had devolved upon some more compe- 
tent person; at the same time, I must say, that, connected, as I 
had the honour to be, with that illustrious man, my heart would 
have upbraided me if I had seen any person whatever more 
eager to do that justice than myself I decline to take that course 
for which there are examples, with regard to other distinguished 
individuals, in consequence of the last strict injunctions of my de- 
ceased friend ; and in the observations which I mean to submit 
to you, I do not wish to allude to any particular part of his pub- 
lic conduct, lest such allusion should tend to create the slightest 
difference of opinion among those who are willing to do honour 
to his memory. When I speak of his great talents and unsullied 
integrity, I feel confident that no difference can arise, either among 
those who agreed or those who disagreed with him. All persons 
admit the splendour of his genius, the extent of his ability, the 
value and the variety of his mental acquirements ; all who have 
had any opportunity of witnessing the display of his vigorous, 
his instructive, his rich and polished eloquence, will, I am persua- 
ded, concur with me in the opinion, that his death has caused a 
great, and perhaps an irreparable vacancy in this house. But, in 
addition to all the qualities of genius, information and integrity, 
which confessedly belonged to my lamented friend, there was one 
character which attached to him in a most eminent degree — (Here 
the Noble Lord was quite oppressed by his emotion, and there 
was a loud and general cry of hear, hear, hear !) — I believe, re- 
sumed the Noble Lord, that it will ever remain in the memory of 
this house, that among the most interesting peculiarities which dis- 
tinguished my friend, was an undaunted intrepidity under all cir- 
cumstances, such indeed as rarely falls to the lot of man, and a 
(E) 



xxxiv BIOGRAPHICAL MEMOIR OF 

manly promptitude to speak his mind upon all occasions. He was 

the man of whom more than another it might well be said — 

Non civium ardor prava jubentium, 
Non vultus instantis tyranni 
Mente quatit solida. 

He was the man who was never to be moved from his purpose, 
or relaxed in his exertion by any considerations, either of fear or 
of favour — no, never was he to be warped from the honest dic- 
tates of his own mind. This quality, always so valuable, and 
which, on all occasions, conferred such peculiar importance upon 
his sentiments, renders his loss at present an aggravated national 
calamity. For never, perhaps, was it more necessary that pub- 
lic men should not shrink from their duties, but act firmly and 
consistently with the dictates of an honest and unbiassed opinion. 
While I dilate upon the merits of my deceased friend, it is my 
wish to abstain from any thing like exaggeration. It was very 
rarely his lot to obtain what is usually termed popularity. But, 
if it be true, as it has often been remarked, that rarely high cha- 
racter and popularity are to be found joined together, his fate 
furnished an impressive illustration of that remark. There may 
be persons ready to follow the inclination of what is called popu- 
larity respecting my friend. But although he may not have the 
favour of such persons, sure I am, that in no part of his conduct 
did he ever want the sanction of an approving conscience — that 
in no instance whatever was he without that highest of human 
gratifications. No, his honourable mind was ever conscious that 
if it did not enjoy, at least it deserved the good opinion of the 
country. — That he actually had the good opinion of all those who 
are capable of truly appreciating character, I have not the slight- 
est doubt. Among all those who attach any value to real public 
virtue and talent, I am firmly persuaded that no man ever stood 
higher. If he had faults and indiscretions, which of us are with- 
out them 1 but his faults and indiscretions were not of any ordi- 
nary cast, for they sprung from no ordinary source. They were 
not the effect of any deficiency of understanding or lowness of 
view — no, but of that high-minded generosity which was his pe- 
culiar characteristic. His disinterestedness was wholly unques- 
tionable. Never did he appear to regard in the slightest degree in 



THE HONOURABLE WILLIAM WINDHAM, XXXV 

what manner his public conduct might aflect himself — how it 
mfght impair his character or his circumstances. Influenced alone 
by what he conceived to be right, he steadily pursued it without 
any dread of consequences. Whether his ideas of riglit or wrong 
were generally correct, or whether results generally justified those 
ideas, certain I am that I anticipate the concurrence of those who 
closely observed him, that the feelings and the motives I have de- 
scribed, were the uniform guides of his conduct. — At an early 
period of his life, he had attached himself to another great man 
(Mr, Burke), whose loss the country has already deplored. He 
imbibed from that great character those opinions which he invari- 
ably pursued; and though, at one time, it might be said, that he 
became exceedingly alarmed at what some might regard as im- 
provements, but what others might consider as innovations, it pro- 
ceeded from a reverential awe for the true principles of the con- 
stitution. — The Noble Lord then expressed that it had been his 
wish to avoid any thing which could tend to excite controversy, 
and to confine himself to those points upon which controversy 
was impossible. It was his wish to say something on those parts 
of his character which others might not have had opportunities 
of observing, but he felt himself unequal to the task. Perhaps it 
was unnecessary that he should do so. The house knew his pub- 
lic character; and certain he was, that among his friends and foes 
there was but one opinion — that in his death they had sustained 
a loss which perhaps the youngest among them might not live to 
see repaired. Having thus unburdened his own mind on the occa- 
sion, he believed he had no more to say. Had he not so express-, 
ed himself, his conduct might have been justly considered more 
extraordinary. He lamented what he had said had been so inele- 
gantly spoken, but he was not able sufficiently to master his feel- 
ings to express himself as he could wish. He concluded by mo- 
ving, " That the Speaker do issue his writ for a burgess to serve 
in parliament for the borough of Higham Ferrers, in the room of 
the Right Honourable William Windham, deceased." 

Mr. Canning, though he had been long in the habit of opposing 
the public conduct of the illustrious character now no more, rose 
to bear his testimony to those talents and virtues which had dis- 
tinguished Mr. Windham's splendid career. He felt equally with 



XXXvi BIOGRAPHICAL MEMOIR OF WINDHAM. 

the Noble Lord, the impossibility of doing justice to talents so ex- 
alted, to virtues so rare. Among all the storms and all the con- 
tests which had raged in his time, whatever might have been the 
frenzy of the moment, he above all had avoided the appearance and 
the reality of soliciting popular approbation. But if his conduct 
had not made him the object of transient popularity, it had secu- 
red him what was of greater value, lasting and unperishable 
admiration. At no time could so great a character pay the last 
debt of nature, without leaving a chasm much to be deplored, 
and difficult to fill up ; but never was there a period at which his 
loss could be more sensibly felt than at present. Throughout his 
life, from a sincere sense of public duty, he had exposed himself 
to every threatening evil, in what he conceived to be the cause 
of his country. — He had left them a proof that conduct so up- 
right, if not calculated to gain the applause of a party, was cer- 
tain of conciliating universal esteem. It had often been his (Mr. 
Canning's) fate, during the time he had been his contemporary, to 
oppose his public conduct. This he had frequently done, thinking 
he (Mr. Windham) carried the best principles to an excess, but 
never once had he suspected his motives to be dishonourable. — 
There was a selfishness of which it was difficult for a public man 
to divest himself — the selfish pleasure of pleasing those with whom 
they were in the habit of acting ; but superior still, even of this 
most amiable of all selfish feelings had Mr. Windham been acquit- 
ted, both by his political friends and opponents. 



SELECT SPEECHES 



THE RIGHT HONOURABLE 



WILLIAM WINDHAM 



LIST OF SELECT SPEECHES 
FROM WINDHAM. 



Parliamentary Reform, Page 1 

Habeas Corpus Suspension Act, 12 

Tax on Dogs, 21 

BuU-baiting, 24 

Monastic Institution Bill, 39 

Peace of Amiens, 44 

Army of Reserve, -.--77 

Defence of the Country, 93 

Additional Force Bill, 112 

Mr. Pitt's Funeral, 125 

Mr. Pitt's Debts, 131 

Vaccine Inoculation, 133 

Campaign in Spain, - 141 

Conduct of the Duke of York, 151 

Mr. Curwen's Reform Bill, - - - - 178 and 212 

Cruelty to Animals Bill, 215 

Walcheren Expedition, 230 



SPEECHES 

OF 

THE RIGHT HONOURABLE 

WILLIAM WINDHAM 



PARLIAMENTARY REFORM. 

MARCH 4th, 1790. 

Mr. Flood moved for leave to bring in a Bill to amend the Representation 
of the People in Parliament. The motion being seconded by Mr. Grigby, 

Mr. Windham addressed the Chair in the following speech : 
Sir, 

It will be unnecessary for me to reply to the arguments of the 
Right Honourable Gentleman very much in detail, since, as the 
question has been so often debated in this house, they are argu- 
ments W'hich every Gentleman who has heard them will be able 
to refute. But I cannot help observing, that there is a preliminary 
question which the Right Honourable Gentleman seems wholly to 
have forgotten, and which ought to have been answered before 
his motion should even have been received by the house. I mean, 
that he has forgotten to show that any necessity exists for adopt- 
ing his proposition ; he has not proved enough to encourage us to 
go on with him a single step. He ought first to have made out 
his grievance, and then to have proposed his remedy. When the 
house is put in possession of both, it will be the time to judge how 
far the first is ascertained, and the second proportionate; and to 
decide whether the remedy ought to be adopted or not. But the 
Right Honourable Gentleman has only asserted, that the repre- 
sentation is inadequate, without any attempt whatever to prove 
that fact. As a substitute for argument, he has contented himself 
with a triumphant a[)peal to the people ; and this I have always 
observed to be the practice of those who have brought this ques- 
tion before the house. On my part, I am ready to resort to the 
same appeal, and to ask whether the House of Commons, consti- 
tuted as it is, be not answerable to all the purposes that can be 
required of it ; and whether the people do not live under it happy 
1 A 



2 PARLIAMENTARY REFORM. 

and free, and do not even enjoy all the luxuries of life which they 
can possibly desire. It is whimsical to say that a constitution, 
which has lasted so long, and which experience has taught us to 
value and revere, ought now to be departed from, in order that 
we may adopt theoretical and new-fangled schemes, such as are 
now proposed to us. Let us, in opposition to such assertions and 
doctrines, look to the blessings we are enjoying ; — let us judge of 
the tree by its fruits, and apply to the British Constitution a homely 
adage, which is not the less apposite for being coarse ; — that " the 
proof of the pudding is in the eating." The experience of all ages 
has demonstrated, that this house is adequate to all that is neces- 
sary, and that with no better a system of representation, the coun- 
try has been prosperous and flourishing, the people have been 
comfortable and safe. Every proposition of reformation or inno- 
vation is good or bad according to the circumstances of the case ; 
and this is a case in which I cannot help thinking that we have 
every thing to lose and nothing to gain. The project comes before 
the house under the appearance of liberty, as all innovations do, 
which are likely to destroy that very liberty they profess to pre- 
serve. The liberty of this country requires no speculative security, 
nor can it be better secured than by the means by which it has so 
long continued. 

Sir, the Right Honourable Gentleman has quoted the case of 
the Middlesex Election, and has laid great stress on the fact of 
the minority having in that case been allowed to triumph over 
the majority. The fact, indeed, was so, and were it so in other 
cases, were such even the general rule of election, and the affairs 
of the house were to go on as well as they have done, I should 
not be disposed to quarrel with such a rule, merely because I 
might be unable exactly to see how such a result could follow 
from it. I should content myself with the result itself; and to 
those who, like the Right Honourable Gentleman, might be dis- 
posed to cavil with it, I would say, in the words of Hamlet, 

" There are more things in heaven and earth, Horatio, 
Than are dreamt of in your philosophy." 

As to the American War, the Right Honourable Gentleman, in 
his reference to that subject, has come somewhat near to the 
point to which I wish to bring him ; — I mean, to matter of fact. 
But I deny that the continuance of that war was owing to the 
inadequacy of the representation. On the contrary, it was the 
wish of the people that that war should be begun, nor was any 
strong indication of an opposite feeling manifested, till towards 
the conclusion of it. It is true, indeed, that a Right Honourable 
Friend of mine (Mr. Fox) opposed the w^ar, and that the Electors 
of Westminster continued him, and very properly continued him, 



PARLIAMENTARY REFORM. 3 

as their representative. But it is also true, that another Right 
Honourable Friend of mine (Mr. Burke) acted the same wise and 
honourable part, and what was the consequence ? Why, that he 
lost his seat for Bristol. He was expressly turned out, at a popu- 
lar election, for opposing the continuance of the war, and had to 
resort for a seat to one of those boroughs which are now pro- 
posed to be disfranchised. Towards the close of the war, a loud 
clamour was raised for a Reform of Parliament, as a remedy for 
the evils, and losses, and expenses, to whicli the people had been 
exposed; though I am afraid that those very people originally 
engaged in the war with no better motive than that of saving their 
own pockets by taxing those of the Americans. 

Sir, it was at the period of which I am now speaking, that a 
deluge of wild opinions was let loose upon us. The emancipation 
of America served to swell the flood. But I have been flattering 
myself that it had long since subsided. I hoped that the cry iiad 
been dead, but it turns out only to have slept. And truly sorry 
am I to observe, that swarms of these strange impracticable 
notions have lately been wafted over to us from the Continent, to 
prey like locusts on the fairest flowers of our soil ; — to destroy 
the boasted beauty and verdure of our Constitution. It is in con- 
formity with these notions that we are called upon to new-model 
our establishments, which have for ages withstood innovation. 
Yet the people at large, it is obvious, have no such vi'ish. If they 
have, why do they not declare it 1 What is the political malady, 
what the grievance that is now complained of? What evil has 
overtaken us, in consequence of this inadequate representation of 
the people? Experience has proved that the British Constitution 
contains somewhere and somehow within itself, a princij^le of 
self-recovery and self-preservation, which brings it back, amidst 
all the deviations to which it is exposed, to its natural and salu- 
tary state. Quod petis hie est. There is no occasion for an 
infusion of new blood, which, instead of being salutary, might 
prove fatal. 

But, Sir, were I even disposed to approve of the Right Honour- 
able Gentleman's notions of reform, I should still feel it my duty 
to object in the strongest manner to the time in which he has 
thought proper to bring them forward. What, would he recom- 
mend you to repair your house in the hurricane season ? The 
Right Honourable Gentleman, indeed, professes only to wish to 
open the door for a change, being perfectly indifllerent himself as 
to what that change might be. Now a change may be good in 
the abstract; but merely for the sake of a change, I can never 
consent to pull down the fabric, and take the chance of building 
it up again. This, to use the language of play, (though I am 
myself no gamester,) would not be playing upon velvet: a little 



4 PARLIAMENTARY REFORM. 

only might be gained, and every thing might be lost. As to a 
love of change generally, this passion is natural to all ages and 
countries ; but men are not more fond of innovation, than they 
are apt to differ as to the particular schemes of reform that are 
to be carried into execution. It is not enough to say, that a 
majority of the people are friendly to reform in general, unless 
some particular mode of reformation be also agreed upon. But 
even were this the case, and were any scheme of ParHamentary 
Reform generally approved of, I should still think it my duty to 
oppose the dangerous and progressive spirit of innovation ; — I 
must still enter my protest against the strange mixture of meta- 
physics with politics, which we are witnessing in the neighbouring 
country, where it v/ould seem as if the ideal world were about to 
overrun the real. In that country speculatists and theorists are 
now frontibus adversis pugnantia. Let us, in good time, avoid 
the infection. 

Sir, it is my firm opinion that there is no grievance existing in 
this country which we cannot correct, without calling in the 
advice of a theorist. While the people are enjoying the highest 
degree of freedom and felicity, why should we try to persuade 
them that they are all the time in misery and slavery ? While 
we are feeling the blessings of peace and plenty, why should a 
thought come into our heads that we are unwell, and must have 
recourse to medicine "? This is like the story in the Spectator, of 
a man in good health, who had read medical books till he fancied 
that he had every symptom of the gout upon him, except pain. 
Let me entreat the house not to fall into the state of this imagi- 
nary valetudinarian. Let us not fancy that our Constitution stands 
in need of the specifics which are offered to us, trifling and harm- 
less as they are represented to be. Once received, they may, like 
the puncture of a man's arm, bring on disorders that are dangerous 
to the whole body ; and the Constitution, now healthy and flourish- 
ing, may fall to cureless ruin. 

Mr. Pitt, though he approved generally of the measure of a Reform in Par- 
liament, wished it to be postponed till a more favourable moment, and in order 
to avoid a specific vote on the subject, proposed a motion of adjournment. Mr. 
Powys, Mr. Secretary Grenville, and Mr. Burke, spoke against the proposed 
Reform ; and Mr. Fox in favour of it, though he recommended Mr. Flood to 
vvrithdraviT his motion, which was accordingly done. 



( 5 ) 

REVOLUTIONARY PRINCIPLES. 

DECEMBER 13tli, 1792. 

His Majesty's Speech from the Throne, on opening the session, having 
been read by the Speaker, the Lord Mayor moved an Address, which con- 
tained the following passages : 

" It has been impossible for us not to perceive, from our own observation in 
different parts of the country, the increased activity with which seditious 
practices have of late been openly renewed ; and we learn, with concern, 
that not only a spirit of tumult and disorder (the natural consequences of 
such practices) has shown itself in acts of riot and insurrection, which required 
the interposition of a military force in support of the civil magistrate, but 
that the industry employed to excite discontent has appeared to proceed from 
a design to attempt, in concert with persons in foreign countries, the 
destruction of our happy constitution, and the subversion of all order and 
government. 

" We entertain a just sense of the temper and prudence which have 
induced Your Majesty to observe a strict neutrality with respect to the war 
on the continent, and uniformly to abstain from any interference in the inter- 
nal affairs of France ; but, at the same time, we cannot but participate in the 
just uneasiness with which Your Majesty must observe any indications of an 
intention to excite disturbances in other countries, to disregard the rights of 
neutral nations, and to pursue views of conquest and aggrandizement, and par- 
ticularly to adopt measures towards Your Majesty's allies, the States General, 
inconsistent with the laws of nations, and the positive stipulations of ex- 
isting treaties. 

" The circumstances, which Your Majesty has been pleased to communi- 
cate to us, appear to have rendered it highly important, for the safety and 
interest of this country, that Your Majesty should have recourse to those 
measures of prevention and internal defence, with which Your Majesty is 
entrusted by law. 

"We sincerely hope that these exertions, and the steps which Your 
Majesty has taken for augmenting your naval and military force, will have 
the happy tendency both to maintain internal tranquillity, and to render a firm 
and temperate conduct effectual for preserving the blessings of peace. 

" Your Majesty may, at the same time, rely on our zealous concurrence 
in such measures as may prove to be necessary for the security of these king- 
doms, and for the faithful performance of our engagements." 

Mr. Fox moved an Amendment, " to express to His Majesty our most 

zealous attachment to the excellent constitution of this free country; our 

sense of the invaluable blessings which we derive from it, and our unshaken 

determination to maintain and preserve it; to assure His Majesty that, uniting 

1* 



6 REVOLUTIONARY PRINCIPLES. 

with all His Majesty's faithful subjects in these sentiments of loyalty to the 
Throne, and attachment to the constitution, we feel in common with them 
the deepest anxiety and concern, when we see those measures adopted by 
the executive government, which the law authorises only in cases of insur- 
rection within this realm. 

"That His Majesty's faithful Commons, assembled in a manner new and 
alarming to the country, think it their first duty, and will make it their first 
business, to inform themselves of the causes of this measure, being equally 
zealous to enforce a due obedience to the laws on the one hand, and a faith- 
ful execution of them on the other. 

Mr. Windham rose immediately after Mr. Fox, and said, that 
strange as it might seem, he should vote this night with those 
whose measures he had uniformly and conscientiously reprobated, 
in opposition to those whose political sentiments on almost every 
occasion were in unison with his own. It might appear extraor- 
dinary that he should be found defending the measures of persons 
with whom he had been so long in political hostility, and in some 
degree reprobating the principles of some of his political asso- 
ciates. He had his attachments, he confessed, and those attach- 
ments in lesser considerations might have some influence even 
upon his judgment. But upon a subject of the importance of the 
present, he was determined to be governed solely by a sense of 
duty. — Indeed, he had often given his opinion in that house, that 
in the year 1784 most unconstitutional measures had been adopted, 
and unconstitutional principles maintained; and, on the same 
grounds, he had often since reprobated the conduct of ministers, 
who had pretty uniformly adhered to the system upon which they 
had come into power ; nay, he was of opinion, that to the pro- 
ceedings of 1784, we might ascribe the evils of our present 
situation ; but the question now was, whether they were right in 
the present instance? and here he confessed he could not agree 
with his Right Honourable friend (Mr. Fox) in almost any of the 
sentiments he had expressed that night. — They differed either on 
principle, or on the application of principle, on all the points of 
this subject. The foundation, however, of their difference lay in 
the state of this country at the present moment. "Was the 
country at this moment in a state of danger, ay or no?" He 
was told, he said, that there was no real cause for alarm among 
the people; that the only alarm that was felt had been created 
by Government. Government must certainly have had strange 
and wonderful powers, indeed, to produce the alarm every day 
expressed in different parts. No, there were serious and well- 
founded alarms from the conduct, not of the officers of Govern- 
ment, but from those who had sworn an enmity to all Government. 
— Did not the whole country feel it? Was not every town, 



REVOLUTIONARY PRINCIPLES. 7 

village, and hamlet filled with apprehension ? Could a man enter 
into his own house, or could he walk in a field, without observing 
that it occupied the whole of the attention of all ranks and 
descriptions of people 1 This was what his Right Honom-able 
Friend had been pleased to make a matter of argument, but what 
was really mere matter of observation ; a man should nt>t reason 
on the probability or improbability of these events, but should ob- 
serve upon the fact, and attend to the relation of others. If a 
man confined himself in one room of his own house, he would 
know no more of what was going on in the next, than he would 
know what was going on in another country ; but if he chose to 
be vigilant, he might know a good deal more. So in the present 
case, if a man would not believe any thing but what he saw, 
nor see any thing but what he liked, it was not very probable 
that he would discover much of the alarm in question. But if 
he was at the pains to observe, the alarm was visible enough. 
Had he observed it? Yes. He had seen the intention of the 
enemies of the present constitution expressed in various shapes. 
He had seen it in the confidence of their agents ; in the boldness 
of those who wished the subversion of the constitution. He ap- 
pealed to the house, whether they did not know and feel that 
there was a general alarm all over the country. The next yjoint 
to be considered, in the order which his Right Honourable Friend 
had taken, was how far it might be fit to check the cause of this 
mischief by law, the question of the policy of doing which he 
had determined in the negative. It was true that the measures 
now pursued over the country, were such as had never been em- 
ployed before ; but it must be observed, in answer to this, that 
there never had been such an occasion before. Speculative 
opinions had been published from time to time in this country, 
and they might have been continued to be published, but the 
manner of publishing, as well as the works published of late, 
were entirely new. He believed the society for Constitutional 
Information began the system now pursued ; it was soon trans- 
planted into another country, in the fertile soil of which it had 
thriven so w^ell as to overthrow all order, and establish confiision. 
Having had this glorious elTect by transplantation, it w-as now 
brought to this country, for the purpose of producing the same 
eflfect. The machine was so well constructed, there were such 
skill, contrivance, and management, in the engineers, that unless 
parliament were on their guard, and the sensible and honest part 
of the community, active in counteracting their designs, the 
whole form of our Government might be easily subverted. He 
spoke not from distrust merely, or rumour, but he knew% and it 
was notorious that there had been, and was now, a constant 
communication between persons in Paris, and persons in London, 



8 REVOLUTIONARY PRINCIPLES. 

the object of which was the destruction of our present form of 
Government. This sort of counter alliance of the Englishman 
in Paris, and the Frenchman in London, had been regularly 
formed, and the effect of it w-as felt already in an alarming de- 
gree ; for in every town, in every village, nay, almost in every 
house, these worthy gentlemen had their agents, who regularly 
disseminated certain pamphlets ; these agents were vigilant and 
industrious, delivered these pamphlets gratis, a proof there must 
be somewhere a society to defray the expense, for these agents 
could not afford to be thus generous to the public without assist- 
ance; they could not pay for them out of their own pockets. 
No, the whole was a well-arranged methodized plan, for gradually 
undermining the principles of the British constitution. This was 
not all, they proceeded with the solemnity of an okth, which was, 
that they were to be ready — Here the confusion arising from the 
loud cries of " Prov^e ! prove !" and " Hear ! hear !" interrupted 
him for a few seconds — when 

Mr. Burke {called to order.) He observed that a gentleman 
was asserting a fact which he was satisfied could be proved, and 
a convenient season would soon arise for that purpose, that was, 
when there should be an inquiry into this business: but there 
could be no good reason why any gentleman delivering his senti- 
ments should giv^e up the sources of his information in this stage 
of the business. There might be good reason why they should 
not now be exposed. 

Mr. Windham then proceeded: he had heard long ago of the 
truth of what he had just been stating from very unquestionable 
authority — indeed he had been informed of it by an Honourable 
Member of that house, but it was not a fact of any great conse- 
quence. The system he had alluded to, had been carried on all 
over the country, more or less in the northern part of this king- 
dom ; great pains had been taken with the poorer part of the 
community, to wean their affections from Government — and it 
was very strongly suspected, that the whole plan was supported 
by a purse which was believed to be made up in France ; this he 
did not know, but he believed it to be the case. In answer to this, 
it might be answered that the French were not likely to contribute 
much money, having little or none to spare upon this or any other 
such occasion, to which the reply was obvious. Those who are 
in a state of desperation, have always the most money to squan- 
der upon acts of profligacy and dishonour ; besides, poor and 
wretclied as they were, yet such sums however large to indi- 
viduals could not be of any great consequence to a nation. The 
manner in which this business was conducted, was very artful. 
On putting these works of sedhion into the hands of the labourer, 
they always told him they were intended for his instruction. They 



REVOLUTIONARY PRINCIPLES. 9 

represented their societies as places for the instruction of the 
lower class. The proper meaning of iair instruction was by 
education to teach a man a mode of reasoning. But this instruc- 
tion was nothing more than a general conveyance of particular 
opinions. Again, they said that their object was the propagating 
truth, and the improvement of the condition of man ; how well 
these points have been gained we had recent instances. It was 
an attempt to reverse the order of society altogether. Fiom the 
pulpit w-e had been accustomed to hear laid down, as the founda- 
tion of all happiness, obedience to the laws. From the Jacobin 
Club nothing was inculcated but disobedience to the law ; and the 
doctrine that those who make laws in this country have no com- 
petent authority to make laws. These sentiments, if generally 
received, would very speedily overturn all order and government. 
The art with which these sentiments were introduced among the 
lower classes of society was consummate ; they pretended that 
they taught nothing but philosophical truths ; but instead of arguing 
philosophically in their books they made round assertions, and 
they acted wisely for their purpose by so doing ; for the persons 
to whom they addressed themselves, were incapable of pursuing 
a subject logically from premises to conclusion, nor would this 
mode of reasoning suit their cause. Not even these assertions 
were made, until they had prepared the mind to receive them ; 
they gained the affections first by flattering the passions, and then 
they proceeded to instruct, as they termed it. Whether the law, 
even in the freest country in the world, ought to permit every 
man to preach what doctrines he thought fit, and gain over as 
many proselytes as he could, was a question that had often been 
suggested, and which he should determine in the negative ; for 
these truths, as they were termed, would dwindle into nothing, 
if the sentiment built upon them could be seen, and the conse- 
quences of them anticipated ; but these poor peasants had not the 
power of deducing conse(iuences, and therefore they listened to 
assertion. — Nor could he see the harm there was of preventing 
all endeavours to explain to a poor, illiterate fellow, whose extent 
of powers was but barely adequate to the task of procuring food 
for his own subsistence, points which had divided the opinions of 
the ablest writers. He saw no great loss to society from putting 
an end to public-house political clubs, and ale-house debates on 
politics; in short, he saw no reason why they should not be 
altogether suppressed. Next came the question, where will you 
draw the line, whom will you take up, and whom will you suifer 
to pass by ; or, shall no man give his opinion upon the constitu- 
tion 1 He said, he could not distinguish in this case by any pre- 
vious principle, which must depend, as all acts in the law did, 
upon the discretion of a competent tribunal, a jury. This point 



10 REVOLUTIONARY PRINCIPLES. 

he illustrated by several observations upon the various denomina- 
tions of homicide and libels. But would he call that treason in 
duodecim.o, which was innocent in quarto ? that was what he did 
mean, because much of the guilt in these cases depended upon 
the quo animo ; and he who printed seditious sentiments would 
take care, if he intended mischief, that they should be within the 
reach of the lowest order. Many of these persons, it seems, had 
been calumniated by imputing to them motives which they did 
not avow, and intentions which they denied ; this observation was 
specious, but not solid, for it was well known they did intend 
what they did not profess, and this was demonstrable by their 
actions ; some indeed, when questioned, confessed a direct inten- 
tion of subverting our Government. If they were asked if they 
were friends to our Government, they answered, yes. But they 
wanted no King, they wanted no Lords — all they wanted was a 
perfect representation of the people. Such a constitution would 
no more be the constitution of England than the constitution of 
Venice ; in short, their view was to destroy all hereditary right, 
and perhaps afterwards to attempt an equalization of property ; 
for one of their books stated, that a country could not be said to 
be truly free, where there was so much inequality among its 
members. Some Gentlemen affected to treat these things wuth 
contempt, but they ought not, in his mind, to be so regarded. It 
was true, the high ranks of life were not contaminated by these 
infamous principles ; but if they were to cast their eyes down- 
ward, they would see there lurking underneath a sort of subter- 
ranean heat, that might burst forth with prodigious violence, if 
not immediately extinguished. 

With regard to the combined armies that marched towards the 
capital of France, he believed their motives were good, and 
therefore he wished them success ; and so he should, had their 
motives been ever so bad : that which they opposed, was worse 
than any consequence that could have resulted from their success. 
He had been told, indeed, that no country ought to intermeddle 
with the internal affairs of another; this might be right in a lim- 
ited sense, but it could not be so to the length insisted upon by 
some modern politicians ; he could conceive many instances in 
which it ought to be departed from. Two nations might quarrel 
— one might be clearly in the right, and the other clearly in the 
wrong ; the continuance of their contest might affect the interest 
of a third nation. Such a nation had a right to interfere. But 
did France pursue only her own internal regulation ? Did she 
keep good faith in her decree, " That she abandoned for ever all 
ideas of foreign conquest ?" She professed, indeed, good will to 
all mankind, but before a Frenchman could be faithful, his nature 
must be changed. — It was their object to lower this country, and 



REVOLUTIONARY PRINCIPLES. H 

in that they would persist until thej^ should accomplish their wish- 
es, if possible. — What was to be said for them in the war against 
the King of Sardinia ? Still worse was their conduct at Geneva ; 
but, above all, who would applaud their decree, " to give liberty 
to mankind I" Was it not avowing an intention to disturb every 
power in Europe? They talked, indeed, of giving to every place 
where their arms were victorious, a choice of the form of Gov- 
ernment; but did they wait for the sense of the majority? Not 
they indeed. When two or three were gathered together, &c. 
that was enough for them. What were their intentions with 
respect to this country? Refer to the correspondence of the 
Jacobin club of Manchester and the Jacobin club of Paris. Did 
any man believe that they would hesitate to bring an army into 
the heart of this country, if they thought themselves safe in so 
doing ? but they did not so much depend upon themselves as they 
did upon their bullies in other countries. Thus, from all circum- 
stances, minute in themselves, but of the most serious importance 
when combined, it would appear that the alarm was not fictitious, 
but real. Ministers therefore, in point of principle, had acted 
rightly in calling out the militia. They might be a little irregular 
in point of form, but as they had observed the spirit of the con- 
stitution, they had his cordial support. 

Mr. Secretary Dundas, Mr. Burke, and Mr. Anstruther supported the ad- 
dress : Mr. Grey, Mr. Sheridan, and Mr. Erskine spoke in favour of the 
Amendment. The house divided, 

For the Address 290 

Against it 50 

Majority 240 



( 12 ) 
HABEAS CORPUS SUSPENSION ACT. 

JANUARY 5th, 1795. 

Mr. Shkridan moved for leave " to bring in a Bill, to repeal an Act passed 
in the last session of Parliament, empowering His Majesty to secure and 
detain such persons as shall be suspected of conspiring against his Person and 
Government." 

Mr. Windham (Secretary at War) said, that there were so 
many of his Honourable Friends more capable than he could 
presume to be, of answering the various topics which had been 
brought into argument by the Honourable Gentleman who had 
just sat down, that he should not have troubled the house with 
any observations at that early period of the debate, were it not 
that personal allusion had been frequently made to himself in the 
course of that Gentleman's elaborate declamation. — The first 
topic which he would notice, was the Honourable Gentleman's 
remark upon some words which fell from him respecting a Right 
Honourable Gentleman on the other side of the house (Mr. Fox,) 
whom, whether he called so or not, he certainly would consider as 
a friend. This was a subject which he had long remarked some 
Honourable Gentlemen had a great propensity to bring into dis- 
cussion ; he had before been obliged to make animadversions 
upon it, as it was, to say no worse of it, extremely officious ; and 
however the Honourable Gentlemen might flatter themselves that 
it conduced to their views, he would hazard an assei'tion, that 
such intermeddling did not give satisfaction to either party. As 
the matter, however, had been brought on the tapis, he w^ould 
fully explain that which he had, already, as he thought, explained 
before. What he had said on a former day, and what he would 
then repeat, was, that for mutual accommodation he would, 
though he retained the sentiment, discontinue the usual form of 
address, and had given for his reason, that, standing with each 
other on a different footing from what they had formerly done, 
he might, by persisting in it, force his Right Honourable Friend 
into resti-aint or embarrassment. This he avowed to be the real 
meaning of his expressions, and this he fancied must still be in 
the recollection of every one present ; he put it to the Honourable 
Gentleman himself to declare whether it was not the handsomest 
mode of deporting himself; had he done otherwise, those who 
had thought proper to bring the subject under notice, might say 
that he acted with the insidious intention of promoting that re- 
straint and embarrassment which, in truth, he wished to avoid. 



HABEAS CORPUS SUSPENSION ACT. 13 

If this was an error, he confessed it to be an error of delibera- 
tion, and one in which he certainly meant to persist. 

The Honourable Gentleman had endeavoured to persuade the 
house, that the conduct of the persons who promoted the war 
was criminal ; and that he (Mr. Windham) was more criminal 
than any of its abettors. He was desirous to avow, that, on the 
footing on which the Honourable Gentleman had stated it, he 
was indeed criminal. If it were criminal to have seen, at a very 
early period, (but not so early as he could wish he had,) that the 
conduct of the French was likely to involve Great Britain in 
warfare and confusion, and to be convinced that, in her own de- 
fence, as well as from principles of justice and poHcy, she should 
have declared war before she did, then, certainly, he was most 
highly so. But (hat, he hoped, was the very utmost extent of 
his criminality; and of his firmness and resolution, to which the 
Honourable Gentleman had alluded, he would answer for it, that 
he never would be found to shrink from any charges that might 
be brought against him, nor be deterred by the empty menace of 
any set of men, from the constant and zealous discharge of the 
trust reposed in him, and from the most unremitting vigilance 
against every thing that had the face of hostility to his country 
or himself, particularly the politics of the Honourable Gentleman. 

The Honourable Gentleman had said, that, in discussing the 
subject in agitation, he would deal with him with the utmost 
frankness. He wished, for the Honourable Gentleman's own 
sake, as well as that of the house, the subject, and himself, that 
he had coupled another thing along with it, and used him with 
fairness as well as with frankness. He had, however, done quite 
the reverse, and given the most unfair and unaccountable con- 
struction to all that he had said. Had there been any thing in 
his mode of expressing himself at all ambiguous, candour would 
have taken it rather upon the favourable side ; whereas, the 
Honourable Gentleman had made use of a supposed ambiguity 
to pervert his meaning, and substituted his own suppositions in 
the place of facts. He declared, and called for the house to bear 
witness for him, that he had not, in using the words acqjiitted 
felon, at all alluded to the persons lately acquitted : on this point, 
it was to be lamented by the Honourable Gentleman's admirers 
and advocates, that all his tragic declamations, all his deep-toned, 
fine-spun periods, fell at once to ruin, the foundation itself being 
thus withdrawn from under them. For himself he declared what 
he had said was this — When the Honourable Gentleman had 
endeavoured, with so little judgment, and so little effect, to de- 
monstrate that the acquittal of those men (whether they are called 
felons or culprits, for he was almost afraid to call them by any 
name, lest he should be misintei-preted) had entirely proved the 
2 



14 HABEAS CORPUS SUSPENSION ACT. 

non-existence of a conspiracy to overthrow the Government, as 
well as their own individual innocence, he had said, that they 
were proved innocent to no greater an extent than numberless 
other persons who were discharged from the Old Bailey ; not 
from their innocence being established in a moral point of view, 
but from want of legal proof of their guilt. This exultation of 
the Honourable Gentleman and the persons acquitted, they shared 
witli many culprits who, though absolutely guilty, are discharged 
from failure of prosecution, from a flaw in the indictment, or 
from any other of those various legal points, under cover of 
which the guilty sometimes skulk away from the arm of justice, 
and strut about afterwards, talking of remedy by actions at law, 
and pluming themselves upon their accidental escape, as if their 
integrity and uprightness had been positively proved and estab- 
lished in the opinion of their country. Here, he said, he would 
rest the point for the present, and hoped that the Honourable 
Gentleman would not oblige him to revive it again, nor do as he 
had often done before, that is to say, make a watch-word of it, 
and, by the most unfair and insidious means, propagate and pass 
it current throughout the world, as if it had never been contra- 
dicted — the most unjust and unmanly way of sapping fair fame 
and reputation that any one could devise. The Honourable 
Gentleman had said muoh of spies and informers. It was a 
melancholy consideration to reflect, that such men were often 
necessary, and he feared they would be more wanting than ever, 
in the situation in which the politics of the Honourable Gentle- 
man and his friends were likely to plunge the country. The 
Honourable Gentleman, who, in all things, was more than com- 
monly shrewd and acute, had the most extraordinary faculties 
he ever knew any one to possess for the purpose of raising 
groundless charges, and the most extraordinary industry and art 
in giving them circulation : one, he said, he would particularly 
mention, — one originating in falsehood, and afterwards circulated 
with a wicked industry, which spoke too plainly to be misunder- 
stood, what their drift was who managed it. The expression was 
the well-known hackneyed " Perish Commerce.''^ It was neces- 
sary, he thought, to refer to the many revivals of it, which the ma- 
lignity and wicked designs of some men had occasioned — after 
being made a handle of in various quarters, all of which he 
suflered to pass in contemptuous silence ; he again found it revived 
in a letter published a few days ago, by a person of too great 
rank to be overlooked (Lord Lauderdale.) Two years ago, Mr. 
"Windham observed, this falsehood was first circulated, and what 
would tend to develope the intentions of the calumniators, it was 
most carefully disseminated, where it was supposed to be most 
likely to do him injury: it was, in short, printed, and stuck up in 



HABEAS CORPUS SUSPENSION ACT. 15 

the workshops of Norwich, to alienate the affections of the people 
from him, and persuade them that he was their worst enemy ; 
again it was brought up in the house against him by those who 
well knew in their hearts that the expression was not his. But 
he was silent, and that silence was taken for an admission of the 
fact. — " Now, Sir," said he, " What will you think, if you shall 
see that this has been brought up again in this volume which 
I hold in my hand, stamped with the authority of a Noble Peer? 
{Vide Letters to the Peers of Scotland, by the Earl of Lauder- 
dale, page 18.) Did not the Noble Writer know that the charge 
was publicly and unjustly attributed to me! and did he not intend, 
by the way he puts it here, that it should be applied to me, and 
considered as my words? — if not, what did he mean?" 

Major Maitland rose and said, he should not have troubled 
the house, and most particularly to interrupt the Right Honoura- 
ble Gentleman, did he not believe he could save some time to the 
house by explaining the case ; the Noble Earl, a relation of his, 
had asked him, if it was that Right Honourable Gentleman who 
had made use of that expression which was reported to have 
come from authority ; he informed his noble relation it was not, 
and the expression had never been applied to that Right Honour- 
able Gentleman. The Colonel said, he trusted that the character 
of that Noble Earl for candour, sincerity, and honour, was such 
as not to entitle any man in that house, or this country, to suspect 
him of doing any thing that was illiberal. 

Mr. Windham continued — I am rather surprised at the explana- 
tion, as it confirms the full extent of my charge, which is, that 
the noble author of the work knew that the sentiment had been 
falsely imputed to me, and yet sent it forth to the world under the 
authority of his name uncontradicted. In the same work there 
is another passage to the same effect, which, noticing the Rock- 
ingham party, says, that the Duke of Portland, Earl Fitzwilliam, 
Mr. Burke, Mr. Windham, and some others, attended meetings 
for a Parliamentary Reform ; which, as far as relates to myself, 
I deny, and believe unfounded as to the rest. I challenge any one 
to assert that I, ever, either in or out of parliament, contended for 
that object, which I cannot but regard as a degeneration instead 
of a Reform of Parliament. In this house I have uniformly 
opposed it ; and before I had the honour of a seat here, I refused 
to stand for the city of Westminster, though I might have been 
returned, because I knew the inhabitants at that time were attach- 
ed to schemes of Reform. These facts being notorious, I am at 
a loss to perceive the candour and fairness of the Noble Lord in 
circulating reports which he must know to be unfounded. This 
system of misrepresentation is in my mind much more injurious, 
than that so much complained of about spies and informers. 



16 HABEAS CORPUS SUSPENSION ACT. 

There is no calculating the evil which it may produce in times 
of trouble and commotion. It was thus, that early in the French 
Revolution, Foulon was massacred, because it was reported that 
he had said, " he would make the people eat grass." The influence 
and dangerous tendency of these party catc/i-ircrds could not be 
stronger exemplified than in the hackneyed phrase of " S^'inish 
Multitude ;" the sense of which expression was completely dis- 
torted from that in which it was applied, in the beautiful passage 
where it was originally made use of. Can any one doubt what 
was intended by this gross and unmanly perversion of its meaning, 
if, unfortunately for this country, the party that perverted it had 
obtained their ends, and fully seated themselves in power ? On 
one point of the Honourable Gentleman's main argument I cannot 
forbear some remai'ks. He says, that the persons tried are com- 
pletely innocent, because they are acquitted. Does he mean then 
totally to disregard the presumption of guilt which was cast on 
them by the finding of the Grand or Accusing Jury? Setting this 
aside, is there any doubt but that the verdict of a jury pronounces 
only that the parties were not in a legal sense guilty 1 But there 
is a vast medium between legal guilt and moral innocence ; and 
besides, there might be various stages even of legal guilt short 
of the specific charges brought against them. As a legislative 
body, however, we are not to seek the verdict of a jury to guide 
us; we must look to presumption and probability, and govern our 
conduct by their evidence. The Honourable Gentleman, in the 
same spirit of misrepresentation, has made me deny the distresses 
of the poor, and sympathised himself as usual in an extraordinary 
degree with the poor of Norwich ; whereas, I appeal to the recol- 
lection of the house, whether I did not bar and anticipate this 
misconception and application to the poor of that town. I said, 
that the distresses of the war were not great, and that those who 
most loudly complained of them had not felt their pressure at all, 
not so much as in the relinquishment of the most trifling luxury; 
and between the rich and poor there is an indissoluble bond and 
mutual dependence. They are not separate interests, but one, 
neither of which can be affected vvitliout operating in the same 
proportion on the other. My assertions are thus answered. I 
said, that a certain description of people had not felt the burden 
of which they had complained. He answers me, that others do. 
I said, that no burdens were at present felt. He answers me, that 
they will be felt. What course of candour and fair reasoning is 
a match for this shifting subtlety? Is it, I ask, a culpable degree 
of aristocracy, to deny the competence of the lower orders of 
society in questions of peace and war? The direct object of any 
war must be allowed trifling, compared to the expense of men 
and treasure, which the most successful termination could be 



HABEAS CORPUS SUSPENSION ACT. 17 

estimated at. It is the remote and complicated objects of wai' 
that form the justification of the measure, and neither the abihty 
nor information of the poor enable them to be fit judges of these 
subjects. It was the great art of people who pretended to think 
otherwise, to rouse the passions of the people, and not to inform 
or exercise their judgments, for which they had in fact the most 
sovereign contempt. In any war whicii those gentlemen might 
or ever had approved, would they consult those opinions which 
they now thought proper to exalt into consequence for purposes 
of their own 1 They ask where is the conspiracy, and deny its 
existence, because there is not legal and technical proof. They 
contend that there is no danger, because the danger happens not 
to fall within the precise line of former example. Whereas the 
danger now is entirely of the novel kind. A new order of things 
is looked for, and every previous right and established law is 
regarded as antiquated prejudice, and inimical to the interests of 
the people. But can Gentlemen, after expatiating on the precise 
limits of ancient treason, turn short round and say, that there is 
no danger, because it is not precisely of that kind which ancient 
experience pointed out, and guarded against ? In those days, the 
life of the Monarch was in danger directly, and that offence was 
dreaded, and guarded against. Now we have to look to the base 
and insidious incitement of the lower orders, as the prevailing 
vice. Every bad and restless passion is called forth under pre- 
tence of right and reason. The natural and inevitable distress, 
which is inherent under all governments, is made the ground of 
accusation against that constitution which secures to us the least 
proportion of those evils which ever existed in one community. 
I mean not to impute any censure to the jurymen who acquitted 
the persons accused, as the charge was apparently remote from 
the death of His Majesty; and plain and honest men are not 
always possessed of that strength and search of understanding 
which is necessary to detect cunning and concerted fraud. Many 
shades of distinction might reasonably be supposed to occur to 
them from the length and intricacy of the case; and wherever 
doubt occurs, a jury is universally inclined to acquit. It is curious, 
however, to remark, that when the report of the secret committee 
was brought forward, it was said, what is your proof, where is 
your evidence of the facts ? And from the silence on these heads 
it was inferred, that no proof existed. Now the facts, however, 
are established upon oath, yet fresh objections are instantly stated. 
On my part, I cannot wish for a more complete refutation of all 
these patriotic doubts and surmises relative to the plots, than the 
bare and simple reading of the documents produced in evidence. 
In this much-vaunted respect for the verdict of a jury, I think 
that I perceive something of a confined view; for this verdict 
2* C 



18 HABEAS CORPUS SUSPENSION ACT. 

seems only immaculate and conclusive when it acquits, and in- 
stantly when it convicts, its whole nature is changed ; so insianti 
the jury become, as by the touch of a magic wand, transformed 
into a packed set of hirelings. Who can forbear this observation, 
who sees the same man celebrate the jury who acquitted Hardy, 
Tooke, and Thelwall, who had before thought so little of the jur}' 
that had condemned Watt and Dovvnie, though their verdict was 
backed by the confession of the convict, in a state when every 
man's word was taken, namely, on the point of death. In all the 
praises of verdicts, this verdict had, by some strange accident, 
been kept out of sight. We state that there have been plans and 
views, call them conspiracies, or by any other name, of the most 
mischievous nature, to stir up and incite the poor to dissatisfaction 
and tumult, and finally to insurrection and plunder. But who shall 
want converts, who tell the poor that the rich are usurpers, and 
that they have a right to reprisals ? Should this be said only to 
exist in theory, we recur to the practice of a great nation, who 
had more than realized the most terrible expectations of the most 
timid. These modern engineers knew better than to attack the 
life of a king directly, and therefore think to elude the provisions 
of the statutes of treason ; they, on the contrary, approach the 
walls of the town by regular siege, and the Honourable Gentleman 
contends that we are from the walls to see them, without molesta- 
tion, complete their works and prepare their mines. To satisfy 
us of the great prudence and propriety of this conduct, he adverts 
to a novel and extravagant philosophical doctrine of national 
character, which he thinks totally unconnected with soil and situ- 
ation; but did it never occur to him, that whatever influence 
government may have on character, character originally modifies 
government, and is therefore the prime cause of the ultimate 
effect. Among other paradoxes he seems to have found out, that 
nations have no character in common, and are not to take any 
example from each other. 

In speaking of the present corruption and depravity of France, 
he refers all to the effect of the old government ; whereas we find 
that these effects increase in the exact proportion as the new 
government recedes from the old, and becomes distinctly esta- 
blished. This paradox, however, is not new with the Honourable 
Gentleman, of attributing all the errors and excesses of the present 
state of France to the ancient Government, and he seems to 
adhere to it with all the phrenzy and fondness which men usually 
show to their most extravagant opinions. If, indeed, this deplora- 
ble effect were owing to the old government of France, we should 
see its effect follow up closely the destruction of that system ; 
whereas nothing could be greater than the exit of that govern- 
ment which now lies buried under the ruins of all that was excel- 



HABEAS CORPUS SUSPENSION ACT. 19 

lent in the country. The Honourable Gentleman has another 
solution also for this difficulty, namely, the war. The war, he 
says, has conduced to this state of savage desperation in which 
we find France. But why, it might be asked, have not other 
wars and similar ditiiculties produced the same etlect in other 
nations ? Because they were not debased and corrupted by the 
governments which directed them. This is, however, tiie poor 
and common resort of all empirics. If the case does not succeed, 
it is from this thing or that, and every thing but their own igno- 
rance and want of skill. They were called in too late, the pre- 
vious treatment was bad, and killed the patient before they came. 
Mean, paltry, and unworthy argument ! 

The Honourable Gentleman asks if the example of the people 
of France is more to be dreaded here than that of Kings in 
Europe, whom with him we might have been induced to call 
despots, if the liberty of France had not buried all former despotism 
in the excess of its cruelty and oppression. Triumphant as this 
argument may seem, nothing is more easily answered. If you 
reduce the people of this country to the miserable state of the 
people of France, they will act the same, from the operation of 
the paramount and leading features of our nature. So, if you 
reduce a King of England to the state of the monarchs of Europe, 
he will act the same. What we deplore and deprecate, is the 
attempt by sly and insidious means to seduce the people of this 
country from the noble and honest character they had for ages 
possessed. The main question between us now is, whether these 
associations honestly and really proposed, however erroneously, 
a parliamentary reform, as it is called, or, under that pretence, 
the utter subversion of the constitution ? Let any man look to 
the evidence on the late trials, and say honestly from his heart 
which was in view. 

There was another object of the Honourable Gentleman's ani- 
madversion and censure, which however was so genera] and 
loose, that I find not so much difficulty in answering as in under- 
standing it. Some charges can no more be replied to, than the 
scolding of a fishwoman in BiUingsgate. Does the Honourable 
Gentleman mean to say that it is dishonourable to accept of 
office 1 — [No, from the other side.] No ! Then if he gives up 
that, he gives up all that he has advanced on that subject. The 
calumnies cast on such things are only to be resisted by the shield 
of character; to that my Noble Friends and I resort. I am truly 
sorry the Honourable Gentleman is not ashamed of such low, 
mean traffic. I defy him to show a single circumstance that can 
tend to cast the shadow of doubt on our conduct. The maHce 
of the design is so corrected by the impotency of the effort, that 
I will not sacrifice a word in answering it. The Honourable 



20 HABEAS CORPUS SUSPENSION ACT. 

Gentleman has asked me why I did not continue, as at first, to 
give honourable support to ministers, without joining them. Would 
not support, without responsibility annexed to it, be mean, be 
dishonest? In fact, if I had not come into an ostensible office, 
where would the Honourable Gentleman have found that responsi- 
ble character with which he threatens me in future. Of these 
personal allusions I can only recollect one more, namely, that if I 
took an ostensible office, I should have resigned the emolument 
of it. Does he mean this as a general principle ; and if not, why 
is the exception to be made ? As often as this notion has been 
agitated, it has as often been rejected by the best and wisest of 
men, and all attempts to reduce it to practice have been regarded 
as a mean and paltry lure to popularity. He is called upon, 
therefore, to explain himself more fully on this head, and should 
disdain to come forward with dark assertions, which he dare not 
openly avow. I think I have now noticed all the parts of the 
Honourable Gentleman's speech, which had a personal allusion, 
either to me or the eminent characters who came into office at 
the same time. The more general topics of his speech I shall 
leave to the refutation, as I promised in my outset, of those who 
are equally ready and more able than I am. 

Mr. Hardinge followed Mr. Windham, and declared that the sentiment of 
" Perish Commerce, let the Constitution live," had proceeded from him, and 
not from Mr. Windham. 

Mr. Erskine, Mr. Fox, and Mr. Sheridan supported the motion ; Serjeant 
Adair opposed it. On a division, there appeared. 

For the Motion 41 

Against it 185 

Majority 144 



( 21 ) 
TAX ON DOGS. 

APRIL 25th, 1796. 

The order of the day being read for the commitment of the Dog Tax Bill, 
Mr. Dent (with whom the bill had originated) moved, " That the Speaker 
should leave the chair." Mr. Sheridan opposed the Bill. 



Mr. Windham (Secretary at War) said he did not mean to 
object to the whole of the bill, but to part of it only. He thought 
a tax upon all sporting dogs fair, because they are a kind of lux- 
ury, and their owners can afford to pay. But he thought there 
was a passion, spleen, and enmity, against the canine race, in the 
formation of the bill, that amounted really to a principle of extir- 
pation. From the tenor of it he should have been apt to imagine 
that Actason had revived, or that some fabulous divinities had de- 
scended to pronounce an eternal ban and curse on the whole race 
of dogs. They certainly at times were disagreeable, and he had 
felt that inconvenience ; but he should have been loath to have 
gone, in consequence, to avenge himself on the whole species. It 
was unworthy of this or any other country, to levy a rate on any 
animal, because that animal was not employed in tilling ground, 
or because the poor might feed on dogs' provisions. It appeared 
as if there was not room enough on earth for men and dogs. 
The Honourable Gentleman had entered into several calculations 
to show the number of dogs and the quantity of provisions they 
consumed ; but he seemed to forget that there was a great quan- 
tity of waste which they destroyed, which, if they were annihilated, 
would become a greater nuisance. He seemed to imagine, that 
all the refuse, now given to dogs, would go to human creatures. 
No such thing; for they consume a great quantity of offal, which 
could not well be otherwise disposed of, and consequently his 
calculation of the quantity of provisions was exceedingly errone- 
ous. He had also excited an alarm upon this head, by observing 
that population increases with provision. So it does, but not if 
there be a greater quantity of provisions than the consumers re- 
quire. How much of the produce of the earth goes to other 
purposes than the food of man 1 Does not the Honourable Gen- 
tleman himself give to his coach-horses and his saddle-horses, 
what would serve for human food ? But when you consider the 
sustenance of men, you are to consider their comforts and enjoy- 
ments also ; or if you do not, we shall revert to rudeness and 
barbarism. Now, as to that part of the bill which related to the 



22 TAX ON DOGS. 

dogs of the poor, his objections were too numerous to be repeated. 
Some dogs are retained by the poor as implements of trade, and 
the Legislature ought not to tax the industry, but the expenditure, 
of the people. Some were retained for their companionable 
qualities ; and when the fidelity and winning attachment of a dog 
was remembered, it was unkind to propose a plan which should 
tend to destroy him. Dogs kept for sporting, were peculiar to the 
rich, and though he did not mean to arraign sporting, he thought 
it not the highest sort of amusement, inasmuch as it reduced the 
hunter to the condition of the animal he hunted. With the rich, 
it might be taxed ; but with the poor, the affection for a dog was 
so natural, that in poetry and painting it had been constantly re- 
corded, and in any sort of domestic representation, we scarcely 
see a picture without a memorial of this attachment. If the rich 
man feels a partiality for a dog, what must a poor man do, who 
has so few amusements ? — A dog is a companion of his laborious 
hours ; and when he is bereft of his wife and children, fills up the 
dreary vacuity. It is a well-known fact, that Alexander Selkirk, 
upon whose narrative the story of Robinson Crusoe was founded, 
cultivated the society of every animal upon the island, except 
those which he was obliged to kill for food. This was his great- 
est satisfaction, and a dog affords a similar satisfaction to the 
poor. Would the house then sacrifice that honest, virtuous satis- 
faction? An Honourable Gentleman behind him (Mr. Buxton) 
disapproved of any difference between the poor and rich, because 
he wished for equality, forgetting that equal burdens are laid upon 
unequal means, and that they ought to be proportioned in the 
same manner as rewards and punishments. — But although he 
wished the tax to be levied upon sporting dogs, he was a friend 
to the game laws, and to aristocratical distinctions ; and he 
thought all the arguments that had been urged against the game 
laws were recommendations in their favour, provided they were 
not oppressive. He did not think that poor men kept dogs for 
the destruction of game, and he lived in a game country where 
he was qualified to judge ; besides if a poacher wanted a dog for 
that purpose, he could afford to pay for it ; so that, extending the 
tax to the poor, would be no protection to the game. As to the 
worrying of sheep, the dogs commonly kept by poor people were 
too small ; for the dogs that worry sheep are pointers, hounds, 
lurchers, guard-dogs, &c. and whenever they are once guilty of 
that vice, they will never leave it off till they are destroyed ; but, 
dead or alive, they hunt the animal, and have been known to tear 
the skins in tanners' yards. He was in perfect conformity with 
his Honourable Friend, when he did not wish to levy any assess- 
ment on the poor; for if people, distressed as some were who 
kept dogs, would deprive themselves of part of their food to keep 



TAX ON DOGS. 23 

a dog, that was the best proof of the value of the animal, and he 
knew, if they were assessed, how likely they would be to be taken 
up by the parish officers. An Honourable Friend (Mr. Buxton) 
had said, that no person who receives relief from the parish ought 
to be allowed to keep a dog. He differed from him in opinion, 
because the whole class of labourers are liable to apply for relief 
on account of the unequal balance of their earnings and expend- 
iture ; for every accident or calamity subjects them to the neces- 
sity of making such application. It would be cruel and impolitic 
to pass such a law ; it is a sort of law, from which every man 
would revolt. The dog is a companion to a solitary man, and 
to a man with a family a play-fellow for his children ; and these 
considerations induced him to wish that satisfaction to be preserv- 
ed to the poor. He had been led on by the subject farther than 
he intended ; but he could not think of sacrificing any man's feel- 
ings to any consideration of interest which had been held out 
from the extension of the tax. 

Mr. Courtenay and Mr. Pitt opposed the bill, which was thrown out with- 
out a division. 



( 24 ) 

BULL-BAITING. 

APRIL 18th, 1800. 

The order of the day being read for further considering the Report of the 
Committee on the Bill for preventing the practice of Bull-Baiting, Sir Wil- 
liam Pal teney moved, "That the house do now consider further the said 
Report." 

Mr. Windham spoke to the following effect: 
Sir, 

I RISE for the purpose of opposing the motion which has been 
made by the Honourable Baronet ; and had I been present when 
this bill was in its former stages, I should have even then decidedly- 
opposed it ; for notwithstanding the gravity with which it was 
introduced, and the importance which seemed to be attached to 
it, I should certainly have thought it my duty to ask the house if 
they knew upon what it was that they were going to legislate. 
Let me now ask them what there is in Bull-Baiting, which they 
have suddenly found to be so alarming. It is no new practice ; 
it has existed more than a thousand years, without having been 
supposed to be pregnant with any of those crying evils that are 
now ascribed to it. Is it pretended that it " has increased, is in- 
creasing, and ought to be diminished ?" I, for one, cannot think 
that it has increased, nor can I see any necessity whatever for 
the interference of the legislature in order to diminish it. In my 
whole life, indeed, I have never been present but at two Bull- 
Baitings, and they happened while I was a school-boy ; but I can- 
not say that I experienced any bad effects from the gratification 
of my curiosity. I did not find myself the worse for it, nor could 
I suspect that the other spectators were contaminated by the 
spectacle. 

Sir, there are some persons to whom a legislative measure like 
this may appear serious and important ; but for my own part, I 
cannot but look upon it as proceeding from a busy and anxious 
disposition to legislate on matters in which the laws are already 
sufficient to prevent abuse ; — it at best only argues a pruritus leges 
ferendi, in the gratifying or opposing of which I cannot but think 
my time, and more especially that of the house, is most miserably 
employed. This house ought only to legislate when an act of 
legislature is gravely and generally called for ; and not merely to 
gratify petty, personal and local motives, such as are infinitely 



BULL-BAITING. 25 

beneath the dehberate dignity of Parliament ; especially in times 
like the present, when questions of vital importance are hourly 
pressing on our attention. Really, Sir, in turning from the great 
interests of this countr}^ and of Europe, to discuss with e(]ual 
solemnity such measures as that which is now before us, the house 
appears to me to resemble Mr. Smirk, the auctioneer in the play, 
who could hold forth just as eloquently upon a ribbon as upon a 
Raphael. This petty, meddling, legislative spirit, cannot be pro- 
ductive of good : it serves only to multiply the laws, which are 
already too numerous, and to furnish mankind with additional 
means of vexing and harassing one another. 

A great deal has lately been said respecting the state of the 
poor, and the hardships which they are suffering. But if they are 
really in the condition which is described, why should we set 
about to deprive them of the few enjoyments which are left to 
them I If we look back to the state of the common peo])le in 
those countries with whiish our youthful studies make us ac- 
quainted, we find, that what with games, shows, festivals, and the 
institutions of their religion, their sources of amusement and 
relaxation were so numerous as to make them appear to have 
enjoyed a perpetual holiday. If we look to Catholic countries, it 
will also appear, partly, perhaps, from many festivals and cere- 
monies being adopted into their religion from the Pagan system, 
and afterwards so transformed as to incorporate with it, that they 
all enjoy many more amusements and a much longer time for 
relaxation than the poor in this country, who may say with jus- 
tice, " Why interfere with the few sports that we have, while you 
leave to yourselves and the rich so great a variety 1 You have 
your carriages, your town-houses, and your country-houses; your 
balls, your plays, your operas, your masquerades, your card- 
parties, your books, your dogs, and your horses to amuse you — 
On yourselves you lay no restraint — But from us you wish to take 
the little we have." 

In the South of France and in Spain, at the end of the day's 
labour, and in the cool of the evening's shade, the poor dance in 
mirthful festivity on the green, to the sound of the guitar. But in 
this country no such source of amusement presents itself. If they 
dance, it must be often in a marsh, or in the rain, for the pleasure 
of catching cold. But there is a substitute in this country, well 
known by the name of a Hop. We all know the alarm which the 
very word inspires, and the sound of the fiddle calls forth the 
magistrate to dissolve the meeting. Men bred in ignorance of the 
world, and having no opportunity of mixing in its scenes or 
observing its manners, may be much worse employed than in 
learning something of its customs from theatrical representations; 
but if a company of strolling players make their appearance in a 
3 D 



26 BULL-BAITING. 

village, they are hunted immediately from it as a nuisance, except, 
perhaps, there be a few people of greater wealth in the neighbour- 
hood, whose wives and daughters patronize them. Then the 
labouring people must have recourse to the public-house, where, 
perhaps, they get into conversation, and politics become the sub- 
ject. That this is an employment sufficiently mischievous I am 
willing enough to admit. What are they to do then? Go home 
and read their bibles ! This is, no doubt, very proper ; but it 
would be well if the rich set them a little better example in this 
way. Whatever may be the habits of the more luxurious climates 
of the continent, the amusements of our people were always com- 
posed of athletic, manly, and hardy exercises, affording trials of 
their courage, conducive to their health, and to them objects of 
ambition and of glory. In the exercise of those sports they may, 
indeed, sometimes hurt themselves, but could never hurt the nation. 
If a set of poor men, for vigorous recreation, prefer a game of 
cudgels, instead of interrupting them, it should be more our business 
to let them have fair play ; for victory is here to them an object 
of as much glory as greater men could aim at in a superior sphere. 
These sports are, in my mind, as fair an object of emulation and 
of fame, as those in which the higher classes are so proud to 
indulge ; and here I am ready to agree with the poet, that, in other 
circumstances, 

" He that the world subdued, had been 
But the best wrestler on the green." 

Some little time since, it was thought matter of reproach for 
gentlemen to be present at any of these athletic trials ; and even 
boxirig was cried down as an exercise of ferocity. It is time to 
resist these unnecessary restraints ; for, if this bill should pass into 
a law, it would no doubt be followed by other regulations equally 
frivolous and vexatious. It is idle to declaim against savage 
manners or dispositions in this country. The character of the 
people is directly the reverse; their sports are robust and hardy, 
but their tempers are not ferocious ; nay, it is a fact, that there is 
not a people in the whole world that feel a greater horror at blood- 
shed. Compare them with the people of France or Italy, where 
all is suavity, sprightliness, and gaiety, and let us rejoice in the 
difference between the humanity of their characters. I will not 
say, whether certain principles, if suffered to operate, might not 
have produced sanguinary scenes here as well as in other places; 
but I can safely assert, that cruelty, or the thirst of blood, is not in 
the nature nor in the habits of Englishmen. On this subject, I may 
be permitted to make an allusion to an affray whichjately took 
place in the Isle of Wight, in which some foreigners were engaged. 
Unfortunately, murder was the consequence of that scuffle, which. 



BULL. BAITING. 27 

amongst Englishmen, would have terminated in a black eye or 
a bloody nose. So congenial is this principle of humanity to the 
hearts of our people, and so uniformly displayed in their actions, 
that it might imply the suspicion of efieminacy, if they had not 
so often given, on all occasions, such glorious testimonies of 
courage and prowess in another way. In war they are prodigal 
of their own blood ; but after the shock of battle, or the fury of 
an assault, their first sentiment is always shown in mercy to the 
vanquished ; and it is not unfair to attribute to their manly amuse- 
ments much of that valour which is so conspicuous in their mar- 
tial achievements by sea and land. Courage and humanity seem 
to grow out of their wholesome exercises. 

Sir, having premised thus much, I next come to consider this 
case of bull-baiting in particular. The sport here, it must be con- 
fessed, is at the exjiense of an animal which is not by any means 
a party to the amusement; but it at the same time serves to cul- 
tivate the qualities of a certain species of dogs, which aflbrds as 
much pleasure to their owners as greyhounds do to others ; and 
why should the butcher be deprived of his amusement any more 
than the gentleman ? That peculiar breed of dogs, though now 
•decreasing, and nearly extinct, has always been held in high esti- 
mation in this island. Gratian, who wrote as early as the age of 
Augustus, mentioned and described this animal, which, indeed, 
has always been so much a favourite, that many of our ships are 
called after its name. It is no small recommendation to bull-dogs, 
that they are so much in repute with the populace. 

The advocates of this bill. Sir, proposed to abolish bull-baiting 
on the score of cruelty. It is strange enough that such an argu- 
ment should be employed by a set of persons who have a most 
vexatious code of laws for the pi'otection of their own amuse- 
ments. I do not mean at present to condemn the game laws ; 
but when Gentlemen talk of cruelty, I must remind them, that it 
belongs as much to shooting, as to the sport of bull-baiting; nay 
more so, as it frequently happens, that where one bird is shot, a 
great many others go off much wounded. When, therefore, 1 
hear humane Gentlemen even make a boast of having wounded a 
number of birds in this way, it only affords me a further proof 
that savage sports do not make savage people. Has not the butcher 
as much right to demand the exercise of his sport, as the man of 
fortune to demand that of hunting 1 Is not the latter as painful 
to the horse, as the former to the bull 1 And do not Gentlemen, 
for the empty fame of being in at the death, frequently goad and 
spur their horses to exertions greatly beyond their strength I Might 
not the butcher say, " I have no coaches, horses, balls, masque- 
rades, nor even books, which afford so much delight to those in 
higher stations, and who have more leisure time ; do not there- 



28 BULL-BAITING. 

fore deprive me of the amusement I feel in setting tPie propensities 
of one animal against those of another." The common people 
may ask with justice, why abolish bull-baiting and protect hunting 
and shooting? What appearance must we make, if we, who 
have every source of amusement open to us, and yet follow these 
cruel sports, become rigid censors of the sports of the poor, and 
abolish them on account of their cruelty, when they are not more 
cruel than our own 1 

It may be said, that in bull-baiting the labouring poor throw 
away their money, and lose their time, which they ought to 
devote to labour, and that thus they themselves may become 
chargeable to the rich. But surely, if there be any set of men 
who ought to be left at liberty to dispose of their money as they 
choose, it ought to be the industrious labourers ; and such men do 
not lose time by their amusements, but work harder and longer 
at other times, to make up for what time they may lose in relaxa- 
tion, and to furnish them with additional money for the enjoyment 
of such recreations. I do not mean to speak against magistrates ; 
on the contrary I am convinced of the value and importance of 
the services they render to the community, and of the general 
activity and propriety with which they discharge their duty ; but 
I do think that many of them appear to act upon an opinion, that 
it is their duty at all times to control the common people in their 
amusements, like some to whom the care of children is committed, 
who think it right to deny them every thing which they seem 
eager to have or enjoy. They appear to act on the opinion, that 
the common people have nothing to do with any amusement; but 
ought only to eat, to sleep, and to work. 

Upon the whole. Sir, there does not appear to me to be any 
real evil in the practice of bull-baiting ; that it would be trifling to 
legislate upon such petty concerns, and that it is in the present 
case absurd, as the practice is already so much fallen into disuse, 
that it seems as if the bill has been brought in now lest it should 
be quite abolished before it could be passed. As to the cruelty 
of the practice, it is mere solemn mockery in Gentlemen to talk 
of it, while they themselves indulge in sports equally cruel. In a 
bull-baiting a hedge may be broken down, or a field of grass 
trodden down ; but what is this compared to the injury by a pack 
of hounds, followed by horses and their riders, sweeping over 
fields and hedges without distinction? Accidents to the lookers-on 
do sometimes happen at bull-baiting ; but I am sure that I have 
known more fatal accidents than ever happened from bull-baiting, 
arise in the county of Norfolk alone, (keeping out of the question 
those which have happened merely from the danger always 
attending the use of fire-arms) by quarrels between the game- 
invaders and the game-preservers, some being killed on the spot, 



BULL-BAITING. 29 

and others hanged afterwards for the murders. Wiiat then is the 
plea by which the bill is supported ? It cannot be from sensibility 
and hatred of cruelty in those very Gentlemen who in the game- 
season, as it has been justly said, become their own butchers and 
poulterers. 

Sir, I shall conclude by moving, " That the consideration of 
the report of the Committee on the Bill be delayed till this day six 
months." 

Mr. Canning also opposed the Bill ; Sir William Pulteney, Mr. Sheridan, 
and Sir Richard Hill, supported it. The house divided on Mr, Windham's 
Amendment, 

Ayes 43 

Noes 41 

Majority against the Bill 2 



MAY 24th, 1802. 

Mr. Dent moved the order of the day, for the second reading of the Bill to 
prevent Bull-Baiting and Bull-Running. Sir Richard Hill having supported 
the measure, 

Mr. Windham said, that the evil complained of by the supporters 
of this bill, was not such as imperiously called for or justified the 
interference of the legislature. He deprecated the introduction 
of such a subject at a moment of such extreme anxiety, when the 
country was divided between hopes and fears, and there were so 
many things of importance to agitate men's bosoms. It was not 
an evil that had " grown with our growth, and strengthened with 
our strength ;" but, on the contrary, it had decHned as they 
increased. In fact, it would be gone before the house would have 
time to legislate upon it. 



Curremus precipites 



Dum jacet in ripa calcemus Caesaris hostera. 

An allusion had been made to a petition from Norwich on the 
subject ; and an insinuation had been throw n out, that it was a 
practice generally prevalent in that neighbourhood. The fact, 
however, was, that on enquiry he himself had found that within 
the last twenty years only two instances were remembered of a 
bull-baiting in Norwich or its vicinity. Decreasing as the practice 
was all over the country, he could not but think "that the discus- 
sion of such paltry local complaints was wholly unworthy of the 
o 



30 BULL-BAITING. 

legislature of a great nation. It was part of a system of introduc- 
ing subjects of a similar kind into parliament, which he could 
not omit the opportunity of reprobating in the strongest terms. 
The subject was in all points of view degrading ; but it appeared 
more especially unworthy of being entertained by the imperial 
parliament, at a time when so many other subjects of great 
national importance were calling for the attention of the house. 
Such a sort of public interference with matters unworthy of the 
consideration of the legislature could be productive of no conse- 
quences but such as were mischievous. No law could be desirable 
which would be attended with no national advantage, and this 
advantage ought to be well weighed before a legislative enact- 
ment was required. A law in all cases necessarily involved a 
certain degree of restraint; and it was also to be taken into the 
account that it could not be carried into effect without vesting in 
those who were to enforce its provisions a considerable degree 
of discretion. If such a law as that now called for were to be 
passed, it could not act by a silent operation. On the contrary, 
it would be enforced by those who principally exerted themselves 
for the observance of the game-laws, and who, in enforcing its 
provisions, could not possibly escape a large share of public odium. 
Such was the subject now before the house, which contained 
nothing of public or general interest. To procure the discussion 
of such subjects, it was necessary to resort to canvass and 
intrigue. Members, whose attendance was induced by local 
considerations in most cases of this description, were present; 
the discussion, if any took place, was managed by the friends of 
the measure; and the decision of the house was perhaps ulti- 
mately a matter of mere chance. The present bill was precisely 
one of a similar description, and but from the circumstances of 
the subject having excited some attention in a former session, it 
might have been considered by chance, and agreed to without 
discussion. 

On this general principle, then, he was inclined to oppose the 
discussion of the subject, as totally unworthy of the dignity of the 
house. But he had in the next place to object to the manner in 
which the subject of bull-baiting had been considered, not from a 
general view of the subject, but from a few insulated examples. 
The friends of the bill took a view of the practice complained of, 
merely as exhibited on a minute scale, and from them consequences 
were drawn. They put the bull and the dog as exhibited in a 
few instances, into the eye of their microscope, and through this 
confined medium desired the house to contemplate the general 
practice. The cruelties of the practice were the only circum- 
stances held up to observation, and every thing else was kept out 
of view. But if this mode of viewing the subject were to be 



BULL-BAITING. 31 

adopted, he saw no reason why all other sports should not be 
coutcinplated in a similar manner. If the cruelty of Bull-baiting 
was thus to be held up to the attention of the house in such glar- 
ing colours, why were not hunting, shooting, fishing, and all other • 
amusements of a similar description, to be judged of by similar 
principles ? If the effects of the one were to be viewed through 
the medium of a microscope, why were not the consequences of 
the other to be scrutinized with equal severity? By viewing 
objects in this way, not only would false conclusions be drawn, 
but the objects themselves would appear inverted, and in a way 
never intended by nature. Things would not only not appear the 
same, but their whole aspect would be reversed. — Nothing could 
be more pleasing to the eye than the sight of female beauty ; but 
even if the fairest complexion were contemplated through a 
microscope, deformities would appear, and hairs unobservable to 
the naked eye would present themselves as bristles on the back 
of a boar. Such attacks as the present on the amusements of 
the people struck him in no other light than as the first step to a 
reform of the manners of the lower orders. Those who, when 
young men, had formed projects for the reformation of Parlia- 
ment, finding themselves disappointed in those projects, now 
formed the design of reforming tliq manners of the people. In 
their desires to accomplish this object, there were two great 
parties united, the Methodists and the Jacobins, though the objects 
they had in view by this change were essentially different. By 
the former, every rural amusement was condemned with a rigour 
only to be equalled by the severity of the Puritanical decisions. 
They were described as a part of the lewd sports and Anti- 
Christian pastimes which, in times of Puritanism, had been totally 
proscribed. Every thing joyous was to be prohibited, to prepare 
the people for the reception of their fanatical doctrines. By the 
Jacobins, on the other hand, it was an object of important con- 
sideration to give to the disposition of the lower orders a character 
of greater seriousness and gravity, as the means of facilitating 
the reception of their tenets ; and to aid this design, it was neces- 
sary to discourage the practice of what was termed idle sports 
and useless amusements. This was a design which he should 
ever think it his duty strenuously to oppose. For, though he 
wished that the people might become more virtuous, more atten- 
tive to the duties of religion, better fathers, better husbands, better 
children, he could never agree that for this purpose their social 
habits should be changed ; that they should prove more austere, 
more unsociable, and more self-conceited than they now were. 
Whenever he saw any steps taken to produce this effect, he could 
not consider them in any other light than as so many steps of a 
departure from the old English character. The habits long esta- 



32 BULL-BAITING. 

blished among the people were the best fitted to resist the schemes 
of innovation; and it was among the labouring and illiterate part 
of the people that Jacobinical doctrines had made the smallest 
progress. In this respect, indeed, it was otherwise with Methodist 
doctrines. They throve best on a stubborn soil ; but they had the 
effect of preparing it for the reception of the doctrines of Jaco- 
binism, in this work the two parties mutually over-reached each 
other. The party of the Methodists invited the people to read, 
and in the first instance they might peruse a few Jacobinical pro- 
ductions, that they might read with greater advantage their 
fanatical productions at a future period. In the same way the 
Jacobins wished to divert the people from every social pursuit ; 
reading they strenuously recommended ; and, though a few 
Methodistical books were, in the first instance, not wholly pro- 
scribed, they were allowed only to fit the mind for the reception 
of their poisonous tenets. The efiect of their exertions was the 
same, though thus differently pursued. It was equally directed to 
the destruction of the old English character, by the abolition of 
all rural sports. So much convinced was he that this was the 
object of such a bill as the present, that he almost felt disposed to 
rest his opposition to it on this footing. Out of the whole number 
of the disaffected, he questioned if a single bull-baiter could be 
found, or if a single sportsman had distinguished himself in the 
Corresponding Society. The hunting for which they reserved 
themselves was of a noble kind ; they disdained the low pursuits 
of ordinary sportsmen ; the game against which their efforts were 
directed were of no less a quality than Kings. 

When he spoke of this union of the Methodists and Jacobins, 
he did not mean to deny that, in their political principles, as well 
as their ultimate objects, they essentially differed. Religion was 
an ingredient in the character of the Methodists, which was 
directly hostile to the views of Jacobinism; for in the composition 
of modern Jacobinism, religion formed no part. But they were 
not, on serious consideration, so very far removed from each 
other as might, at first sight, appear. As a general assertion it 
would be admitted that hot water was farther removed from con- 
gelation than what was cold ; but when the hot water was 
exposed to the air, it was more speedily frozen. In a similar 
manner, though, in the abstract, Methodism and Jacobinism 
seemed to be the farthest removed from each other, yet facts 
showed that the tenets of the one prepared the mind for the 
adoption of the doctrines of the other. In confirmation of this 
mutual design of these parties, the Right Honourable Member 
took occasion to quote a passage from the Memoirs of a rural 
Poet of considerable celebrity, (Bloomfield, author of the Farmer's 
Boy, &c. by a gentleman of respectable literary talents, Mr. Capel 



BULL-BAITING. 33 

Lofft,) in which it is mentioned, tliat, the Poet was in the habit 
of spending his time in reading in his garret, or attending a de- 
bating' society, which the editor recommends as a much more 
wortliy mode of employing himseh", than if he had been occupied 
with gambhng, driniving, or fighting. Mr. Windham paid some 
very handsome comphments to the originaUty of many of the 
thoughts of this poet, to his natural simplicity and unafl'ected 
elegance of language. He wished what he now said to be con- 
sidered as an unexaggerated declaration of his opinion of the 
skill of the author ; and he hoped it would be considered as 
nothing improper when he added, that he wished this opinion, 
thus publicly delivered, to be viewed as an advertisement of the 
merit of the poem. But with this high opinion of the merits of 
the poer, he had doubts how far it was proper to encourage ideas 
of literary profit or renown in those who had been bred to a use- 
ful trade. In particular instances it might not be prejudicial ; but 
to inculcate such notions as those contained in the passage of the 
Memoirs to which he had referred, could tend only to a mis- 
chievous purpose. He regretted the minuteness with which he 
was obliged to enter into the consideration of the subject, but 
threw the blame on those by whom such a subject was introduced — 
an examination of the bill was not less necessary than if it had re- 
ferred to a subject of the highest national importance. To examine 
the character of a daub of Teniers was often a work of more 
difficulty than to describe the beauties of the Madona of Raphael. 

He next proceeded to read an extract from a sermon, which 
he declared he should, in all probability, never have read, but from 
the circumstance of its having been sent to him by the author, in 
which the cruelty of bull-baiting is described in very strong terms ; 
and the man who would encourage the practice is represented as 
a person who would not hesitate to sheathe a blade in the bowels 
of his fellow-creatures. That the practice of sports, even when 
they were of a cruel kind, tended to render mankind cruel, he 
denied, and he founded his assertion on the history of all ages 
and countries. The most elegant scholars, and the finest poets 
in ancient and modern times, from Xenophon to Virgil and Mil- 
ton, were loud in the praises of many of those sports which, with 
equal justice, might be called cruel, as that which had been so 
loudly condemned. What was the inference he drew from all 
this, but that cruelty was not at all the object of those sports, 
though in certain instances it might be the result? If he were 
asked, what was the object of bull-baiting, he should be better 
able to give an intelligible answer, than if he were asked a simi- 
lar question with regard to hunting, or other amusements of that 
description. That a certain degree of gi'atification might be 
received from the spectacle of the combats of animals, the history 
E 



34 BULL-BAITING. 

of all ages sufficiently proved. Even the philosophy of the pre- 
sent age took part with a practice which had prevailed nn this 
country for centuries. In the time of Queen Elizabeth, that 
which is now despised and reprobated as the amusement only of 
the lowest of the people, was an amusement courted by all ranks. 
Since that period bull-baiting had declined, and hunting had 
usurped its room. The one had become the favourite amusement 
of the great, and the other had sunk in dignity till it was in a 
great measure annihilated ; and yet it was at such a moment as 
this, that the house was called upon to put it down by a legislative 
enactment. Was this, he asked, a time to abridge the amusements 
of the common people, when we were meditating the extension 
of the Game Laws to Ireland ? 

But the riots and confusion which the practice of bull-baiting 
occasioned were urged as another reason for the necessity of the 
interference of the legislature. This was a favourite argument 
on a former occasion, when the subject was before the house, 
with an Honourable Friend of his (Mr. Wilberforce), Member 
for Yorkshire. In this instance the conduct of his Honourable 
Friend put him in mind of the story of the butcher, who ran about 
seeking his knife while it was in his teeth ; for he was searching 
every quarter in quest of objects of reform, while those in his own 
neighbourhood were totally overlooked ! When he condemned 
the excesses to which bull-baiting gave rise, had he forgotten all 
the confusion and riot which horse-racing produced ? He himself 
did not object to the practice of horse-racing, since there were 
so many individuals to whom it was a source of pleasure. Bui 
he might be allowed to remind the house of the observation of 
Dr. Johnson, who had expressed his surprise at the paucity of 
human pleasures, when horse-racing constituted one of their 
number. Perhaps the anxiety displayed by many persons in the 
pursuit of this pleasure, might be considered as approximating to 
the efforts of the degenerate Emperors of Rome, to gratify a 
palate which luxury had rendered insensible to the ordinary ma- 
terials of food. To horse-racing he was himself personally no 
more an enemy than he was to boxing — though in making this 
observation he was far from meaning to disparage boxing so far, 
as to put them on an equal footing, or to insinuate that so poor, 
mean, and wretched an amusement as the one, was at all to vie 
in importance with the other, which was connected with ideas of 
personal merit, and individual dignity. But he was confident, that 
in point of effect on the morals of the people, the influence of 
horse-racing was infinitely more pernicious than any which bull- 
baiting could produce. What, he desired the house to consider, 
did a horse-race consist of? What was the description of persons 
whom it encouraged to assemble ? They consisted of all the riff- 



BULL. BAITING. 35 

raff from every part of the country. There were to be seen col- 
lected all the black-legs of the metropolis, the markers at bilhard- 
tables, apprentices who had embezzled the property of their mas- 
ters, and who are afterwards obliged to resort to knavery to cover 
their fraud, gingerbread venders, strolling gamblers, in a word, 
infamous characters of every denomination. Such was the descrip- 
tion of individuals whom horse-racing assembled. Now what 
was the object which such an amusement had in view? He con- 
fessed himself unable to view it in any other light than as a 
species of gambling. It did not seem to him to give exercise for 
one generous feeling. His Honourable Friend had however taken 
a cumbrous leap over no less than nine racing-grounds in the 
county which he represented, and had never descended till he 
had alighted at a bull-bait. He had totally neglected the duty of 
destroying abuses at home, but had spent all his labour, and exert- 
ed all his zeal, in poaching in foreign manors. So much, he 
remarked, on the argument that bull-baiting was productive of 
riot and confusion. 

He next recurred to the inexpediency of abridging the amuse- 
ments of the lower orders at the present moment. There was a 
very numerous class of pleasures from which their circumstances 
in life excluded them. To the pleasures of intellect, that source 
of the purest delights of humanity, their situation denied them 
access. To the accommodations of social life, so far as a change 
of situation and place was concerned, they were strangers. The 
rich had their feasts, their assemblies, their parties of pleasure, 
their pic nics, every thing, in short, which could afford them grati- 
fication. From amusements of this kind the lower orders were 
excluded by their povertv. But there was another class of plea- 
sures from which they were in a great measure excluded by the 
rigour of the law. The authority of the magistrate was often 
interposed to counteract even their harmless pleasures. To dance 
at all out of season, was to draw on their heads the rigour of 
unrelenting justice. The great might gratify themselves in a thou- 
sand different ways, and the magistrate did not conceiv-e it within 
his sphere to interrupt their amusements. But it was known that 
an organ did not sound more harshly in the ears of a Puritan, 
than did the notes of a fiddle in those of a magistrate, when he 
himself was not to be of the party. He made an allusion to a 
I'cautiful passage of a celebrated writer (Sterne), in which he 
describes the condition of the lower orders at the close of the day, 
when labour was finished, when families met together to join in 
social pleasures, when the old encouraged the sports of the young, 
and rejoiced in the amusements of their children. But what was 
all this when translated into plain English ? It conveyed to us 
merely the idea of a hop. In confirmation of his ideas about 



36 BULL-BAITING. 

the restraints to which the amusements of the lower orders are 
subjected, he referred to certain transactions which took place in 
a square at the west end of the town (Berkeley-square) a few 
years ago. The whole neighbourhood had been alarmed ; the 
most serious apprehensions were excited ; the aid of the military 
was judged necessary ; and after all this idle pomp and authority, 
it was discovered that the formidable disturbers of the public 
peace were a few domestics dancing to the music of a blind 
sailor's fiddle. It was to be regretted that many Gentlemen should 
be anxious to deprive the lower orders of their amusements, from 
a seeming apprehension, that if they were suffered to enjoy those 
recreations they would not labour sufliciently, and might become, 
from their improvidence, a burthen to the poor rates, to which the 
rich must contribute; this was a most injudicious system of think- 
ing, and he cautioned the rich against acting upon it. The effi- 
cient part of the community for labour ought to be encouraged in 
their exertions rather by furnishing them with occasional amuse- 
ments, than by depriving them of one, as this bill proposed — a bill, 
the supporters of which would take them to the Tabernacle or to 
Jacobinism — for, if to poverty were to be added a privation of 
amusements, he knew nothing that could operate more strongly 
to goad the mind into desperation, and to prepare the poor for 
that dangerous enthusiasm which is analogous to Jacobinism. 

He objected to the way in which Geiitlemen would wish the 
house to look at the consequences of bull-baiting, by citing par- 
ticular accidents, and from them concluding that the practice was 
cruel, and that the bull in baiting was treated with cruelty ; he 
believed the bull felt a satisfaction in the contest, not less so than the 
hound did when he heard the sound of the horn which summoned 
him to the chase. True it was, that young bulls, or those which 
were never baited before, showed reluctance to be tied to the stake; 
but those bulls, which according to the language of the sport 
were called game hulls, who were used to baiting, approached the 
stake and stood there while preparing for the contest with the 
utmost composure. If the bull felt no pleasure, and was cruelly 
dealt with, surely the dogs had also some claim to compassion ; 
but the fact was, that both seemed equally arduous in the conflict; 
and the bull, like every other animal, while it had the better side, 
did not dislike his situation — it would be ridiculous to say he felt 
no pain — yet, when on such occasions he exhibited no sign of 
terror, it was a demonstrable proof that he felt some pleasure. 

With regard to the petition from Stamford against this bill, it 
was entitled to the most respectful attention, for it came from a 
body of sober loyal men, who attended to their several vocations, 
and never meddled with politics, fahhful to their landlord (the 
Marquis of Exeter), with whom, however, they could not avoid 



BULL-BAITING. 37 

being a little displeased for his endeavours to deprive them of their 
favourite sport by supporting this bill. Those petitioners state, 
that this amusement had been enjoyed by their town, for a period 
of five or six hundred years, and the antiquity of the thing was 
deserving of respect — for respect for antiquity was the best pre- 
servation of the Church and State — it was by connecting the past 
with the present, and the present with the future, that genuine 
patriotism was produced and preserved. 

He repeated that he was shocked and scandalized at the manner 
in which the advocates of this bill would persuade the house to 
act ; to prohibit an old amusement because it was the amusement 
of the poor ; for the objection was not to the cruelty of the amuse- 
ment; if it were, the scope of the bill ought to be enlarged. 
Those Gentlemen seemed to be influenced by a species of philo- 
sophy dictated by their wives, one of whom might be supposed 
to address her husband thus: — "My dear, do you know, that after 
you went out with your dogs this morning, I walked into the 
village, and was shocked to see a set of wretches at a bull-baiting, 
tormenting the poor animal. I wish, dear, you would speak to 
our Member, and request him to bring a bill into Parliament to 
prevent that horrid practice." — {A. laugh). 

Independent of the injustice of encroaching upon the few small 
amusements of the poor, he would beg the house to consider the 
consequence of rendering them discontented or dispirited, by 
leaving nothing for them but the wide waste of labour. The 
reason why our labourers were capable of more work than slaves, 
was obvious; because they felt that they worked for themselves; 
and, according as their profit, or their prospect of pleasure, which 
was the same thing, was increased, just so did their labour gene- 
rally increase also. Such a bill as this, to abridge men's pleasures, 
and to hold out a kind of direct hint to them that they never 
could labour enough, was suiTicient to Jacobinize a whole country. 
In proof of the assertion that bull-baiting did not operate to bru- 
talize men's minds, he had only to turn the attention of the house 
to Lancashire and Stafibrdshire, where that practice principally 
prevailed. These counties were known to produce the best sol- 
diers in the army, and the militia of Staffordshire were known to 
have been selected, from their good behaviour, to do duty about 
the Royal Person; a prettv good proof that bull-baiting did not 
produce such elTects on the morals of the people as the Piu'itans 
affected to deplore, but rather such as the .Tncobins in France and 
England very sincerely lamented. It was mockery in men to 
talk of the suffering of animals from the sports of the lower orders, 
while they themselves were doinsr something worse. To the 
difference between the jolly bull-baiting peasant and his demure 
gloomy censors, he would applv the words of the poet — 
4 



38 BULL. BAITING. 

" Tom struts a soldier, open, bold, and brave ; 
Will sneaks a scrivener, an exceeding knave," 

The Right Honourable Gentleman concluded with stating, that 
if the bill before the house should be adopted, he should, for the 
sake of consistency and the character of parliament, conceive it 
his duty to move for leave to bring in a bill to prohibit hunting, 
shooting, fishing, and all the sports of the field practised by the 
higher orders. 

The Bill was supported by Mr. Courtenay, Mr. Wilberforce, Mr. W. Smith, 
and Mr. Sheridan ; and opposed by Colonel Grosvenor, General Gascoyne, and 
Mr. Frankland. 

The question being put, " That the Bill be now read a second time," Gene- 
ral Gascoyne rose, and moved as an Amendment, " That it be read a second 
time this day three months." On which Amendment the house divided : 

Ayes 64 

Noes 51 

Majority against the bill 13 

The Bill was consequently lost 



MONASTIC INSTITUTION BILL. 

JUNE 23, 1800. 

The order of the day being read on a Bill for placing under certain regu- 
lations the Monastic Institutions in this kingdom, 

Mr. Windham spoke to the following effect: 
Sir, 

Did any necessity exist for a restraining measure of this kind, 
I know none more unexceptionable than the present one proposed. 
But with all the inquiries I have been able to make, and with all 
the sagacity I have been able to exercise, though I have even 
strained my eyes to find out a plausible or sufficient cause for the 
present proceeding, I have been wholly disappointed in my object. 
Instead of the Roman Catholic Religion springing up again into 
importance, its friends have to fear a change of quite a different 
kind. I, myself, have, upon some occasions, been considered as 
a pretty good alarmist, though on the present one my feelings, 
I confess, are rather obtuse. Whether or no my fears for the 
common safety of Europe may absorb all other considerations 
of danger, or that I see things in a juster point of light than 
those who support the Bill, I will not preterjd to say. — What, 
however, can be more absurd, than to suppose that in the present 
order of things, in this era of the world, at the latter end of the 
eighteenth century, (or, if you please, at the beginning of the 
nineteenth,) in the tenth year of the French revolution, in the 
general renunciation of every popish tenet throughout Europe, 
when the fate even of that quarter of the globe is trembling in 
the balance, and the period is arrived which must either estabhsh 
or overturn for ever the power of France, any just apprehension 
can be entertained of the spread and dominion of popery 1 Some 
Gentlemen there are, of heated imaginations, who attribute all the 
calamities, which have lately arisen, to the effects and operation 
of popery. Popery, they say, produced the D'Alemberts, the 
Diderots, and the Voltaires, who, in their turn, contributed to its 
downfall ; and even our countrymen Hume and Gibbon were made 
infidels by the horrors of popery. The opinions of such persons, 
then, it seems, have produced these calamities ; and in the time 
of these calamities, the re-production of those opinions which 
originally gave birth to them is become matter of serious dread 
and expectation. Those who reason in this way make use of an 
admirable antiperistasis. Qualities are said sometimes to produce 



40 MONASTIC INSTITUTION BILL. 

their opposites ; thus heat produces cold. On this principle, indeed, 
the effects of infidelity, with all its concurrent circumstances, may 
be to produce religion. But, on taking a survey of Europe, I 
cannot see any imminent danger of this sort. 

But what is the danger spoken of? Why, there are thi'ee or 
four thousand emigrant priests in the country. I admit, this 
argument, taken by itself, is a good one ; but Gentlemen ought 
to look further. In the time of Agricola, the northern inhabitants 
of this island were held in disregard, and did not much invite the 
Roman arms. From this, they supposed they were braver than 
their southern neighbours, who were conquered by the Romans. — 
To apply this to the present occasion, I would say, we see four 
or five thousand popish priests in this country. These are the 
wreck of three hundred thousand who once flourished in France, 
but were suppressed. A few stragglers only have come to us, 
who happily survived the destuction of the Gallic church. This 
general overthrow and abasement have weakened more the 
Catholic faith, than any endeavours of the remaining few who 
adhere to it can effect towards its restoration. They have no 
idea of the kind. They esteem themselves weak and fallen. The 
supporters of the present bill only swell them into importance, 
and suppose them capable of performing a task their more nume- 
rous brethren were unequal to. Those who have fled to us for 
protection, are but miserable remains as to their means and 
power, though not as to the virtues they have uniformly displayed. 
What danger then can be suspected from them 1 Where the 
means are so disproportionate, why should we fear the end ? I 
must consider, therefore, this bill as wholly useless. Where no 
danger exists, no precaution is necessary — where no disease, no 
remedy. When I think of the readiness with which persons are 
apt to call for the interference of the house, I consider it as one 
of the evils of the times. The courts below keep up their price 
— there we find no frivolous applications ; the experiment is too 
costly — parliament only is cheap. The legislature is as accessi- 
ble as the parish pump : it may be worked by the first man who 
chooses to put his hand to it. 

This alone is a sufficient reason why the vote of the house 
should put a stop to the further progress of the bill. If, however, 
we are to go on with it, let us consider what other objections 
there may be. The form of an argument has been adduced in 
its support, 

" If form indeed it had, which form had none 
Distinguishable in member, joint, or limb," 

that these miserable remains of the church of France will revive 
the monkish superstitions. — But how can this be the case ; or, if 



MONASTIC INSTITUTION BILL. 41 

it was, what mischiefs could ensue ? What is there so abhorrent 
in a convent; or, what danger is to be apprehended from one 
sect more than ancjther? I do not mean to go into the question 
of monastic institutions, or to undertake their defence ; but I 
will say, that nothing can be more weak, indecent, or oflensive, 
than the arguments generally adduced against them. Why any 
person who voluntaril}^ consigns himself to mortifying penalties 
and solitude should be condemned and restrained in the free 
exercise of his wishes, I know not : piety, to be sure, may not 
require the many privations belays himself under; but let him 
either be an ascetic or a maniac, it is no concern of mine. The 
effect of his conduct is confined to himself, and is the concern of 
no other person. In no one instance has the hostility of protestant 
divines been mSre displayed than against the ascetics of the church 
of Rome. Man, by his nature, perhaps, is more apt to find fault 
with and condemn those excessive virtues which put him to the 
blush, than the blackest and most extravagant vices. Every man 
is the rule of his own conduct. One disposition may require more 
mortification than another, and the stronger should possess charity 
for the weaker brother. Some may be driven 

"To leave a world where strong temptations lie, 
And when they cannot conquer, learn to fly." 

I should be glad to know w'hy a society of ancient maids, who 
may unite together, and agree not to go beyond their garden 
walls, are less respectable or less virtuous than the same number 
of ladies dispersed abroad, who collect parties at whist, or at any 
other amusement. 

It is a matter worthy of consideration what researches have 
been carried on in monasteries, what inventions thence take their 
origin, and what voyages missionaries from that school have 
performed. This circumstance makes us respect the inhabitants 
of cloisters and their institutions. The hope of a convent has 
been the support of many. It is a last retreat, where they shun 
the cares and misfortunes of life. In this country, however, such 
an institution is graced with no veneration ; its devotees are not 
marked with any peculiar degree of sanctity. One great cause, 
therefore, of forsaking the world by seclusion in these places, is 
wanting in this country. When the church of Rome was in the 
plenitude of its power, the proselytes to its tenets were numerous, 
and its doctrines thus brought into exercise might be attended 
with some danger in this country. Now, however, when the 
predominance of another persuasion exists, and in the degraded 
state of the Catholic church besides, a papist is no more an object 
of fear or suspicion than any other sectary. Toleration demands 
that a state should be indifferent to all religious opinions which 
4* F 



42 MONASTIC INSTITUTION BILL. 

do not affect its own internal tranquillity or safety. A state, I 
own, has a right to patronize what establishment it pleases, but 
not to suppress the freedom of opinion or dissent. Some opinions, 
it is true, are dangerous, and these a state should not be indiffer- 
ent to. Such were the opinions of the United Irishmen. But if 
a set of nuns choose to make vows of celibacy, it is voluntary on 
their part, and no restraint should be imposed upon them. If, 
therefore, without any danger from popery, you attempt to lay 
its professors under needless restrictions, you legislate on very 
delicate grounds. It is right to save one man from the act of 
another, but not to save him from the act of himself According 
to the best information I have received, I do not believe that the 
interior of a convent is that scene of vice or woe which it has 
most commonly been represented to be ; and if persons choose to 
spend their lives within such walls, the legislature have no right 
to rescue them from their own determinations. 

By this bill persons are to be prevented from making vows ; 
but there is no instance, I believe, of a woman in an English 
convent who has not passed her novitiate in another country. 
But, to go back to the subject of convents, I say that the law 
should not interfere to prevent converts to popery, any more than 
to any other sects and persuasions. If, indeed, conversion to 
popery were an evil, law is not its proper remedy. The divines 
of the established church should feed their flocks with spiritual 
food, and thus enable them to withstand the poison of delusion. 
Instead of this, they are too fond of raising the cry, " the church 
is in danger !" If proselytism exists, it is a disgrace only to that 
clergyman in whose parish it takes place. What, if they do their 
duty, can members of the church of England fear? They meet 
their antagonists on more than equal terms. Should any one 
indeed attempt to preach up the rights of man, or teach insubor- 
dination to lawful authority ; to silence such would then be a work 
of necessity : but popery has nothing in it of this dangerous ten- 
dency, and may be met fairly in the field of argument. But if a 
line of conduct be adopted similar to that which induces persons 
to apply to the legislature to protect themselves by penalties and 
statutes, where they are entirely careless about themselves, and 
would rather defend their property by acts of parliament than by 
a quickset hedge ; what can persons thus acting expect, but that 
advantage should be taken of their supineness ? Success, and the 
protection of the laws, belong rightly to a different class, Vigi- 
lantibus non dormientibus. Penal laws can never defend the 
country against popery. I cannot help making the remark here, 
that opinion may be too much under the protection of law. A 
little opposition is no bad thing: it makes persons attentive to their 
duty, and may be as useful in the church as in the senate. In the 



MONASTIC INSTITUTION BILL. 43 

physical and moral body, opposition tends to keep up the proper 
tone of health. Did the earth spontaneously produce every thing 
for the use of man, the short-sighted philosopher might say it was 
well ; but nature has wisely ordained it otherwise. Every thing 
valuable is to be acquired and preserved by labour. In this point 
of view I should deprecate the bill Gentlemen wish to bring in, 
as it tends to narrow the field of intellectual exercise and fair 
discussion. 

Another objection against the bill is, that it raises prejudices in 
the minds of the illiberal, against a number of unoffending persons, 
who have fled to our shores from the tempest which threatened 
their destruction. — When this shall subside, they will be very 
ready to seek their own country again, and carry all their offen- 
sive customs and sentiments along with them. But why should 
w^e send them back lame and crippled ? While they remain here, 
it is not generous to mark them out as objects of public scorn and 
suspicion. An Honourable Gentleman opposite (Mr. T. Jones) has 
called this a nun-baiting bill. I, however, am their defender ; and 
the bull himself turned into a baiter, is running furiously among 
the nuns. As to danger to the state, every person must scout the 
idea. If conversion be the evil complained of, why is that greater 
in this case than in that of the sectaries? I have heard it as an 
argument for the bill, that if it will do no great good, it will do 
no hurt : but this I deny, so long as unjust prejudice is liable to 
spring from it. I therefore vote against the Speaker's leaving the 
chair. 

Sir Henry Mildmay (with whom the Bill had originated), Mr, T. Jones, 
Mr. Dudley Ryder, Mr. Erskine, and Mr. Perceval, supported the Bill ; Mr. 
Hobhouse, Sir William Scott, Mr. Sheridan, and Dr. Lawrence opposed it. 
On a division, the numbers were. 

For the Speaker's leaving the Chair 52 

Against it ^ 

Majority 28 

The Bill, with some modifications, passed the House of Commons, but was 
rejected by the House of Lords. 



( 44 ) 



PEACE OF AMIENS. 

NOVEMBER 4th, 1801. 

On the preceding evening, the following address had been moved by Sir 
Edmund Hartopp, was seconded by Mr. Lee (M. P. for Dungarvan), and passed 
the House of Commons without a division, viz. 

"That an humble address be presented to His Majesty, thanking His 
Majesty for being graciously pleased to order the preliminaries of peace with 
France to be laid before this House ; — to assure His Majesty of the just sense 
this House entertains of this fresh instance of his paternal care for the welfare 
and happiness of his people ; — and to express their firm reliance that the final 
ratification of those preliminaries will be highly advantageous to the interests, 
and honourable to the character of the British Nation." 

In the course of the debate, the terms of the peace had been censured by 
Mr. T. Grenville, Lord Temple, and Dr. Lawrence, and defended by Lord 
Hawkesbury, Lord Castlereagh, Mr. Banks, Mr. Pitt, and the Chancellor of 
the Exchequer, Mr. Addington. Mr. Fox also expressed his satisfaction that 
a peace had been effected. Mr. Windham being unwell, reserved himself for 
the evening of the 4th, when, on the report of the address being brought up, 
he addressed the chair in the following speech : 

Sir, 

In the present stage of this business, and in a house so little 
numerous, I am not disposed to take up the subject in the way in 
which I should have wished to consider it, had I been able with 
tolerable satisfaction to myself, to deliver my sentiments in the 
debate of last night. Something, however, I wish to say, founded 
in a great measure on what then took place. 

All that I heard, and all that I saw, on that occasion, tends 
only to confirm more and more the deep despair in which I am 
plunged, in contemplating the probable consequences of the pre- 
sent Treaty. 

Notwithstanding some lofty talk which we heard of dignity 
and firmness, and which I shall be glad to see realized, and a 
happy quotation, expressive of the same sentiments, from my 
Honourable Friend not now present (Mr. Pitt), the real amount 
of what was said, seems to be little more than this : — that France 
has, to be sure, the poioer of destroying us, but that we hope she 
will not have the inclination ; — that we are under the paw of the 
lion, but that he may happen not to be hungry, and, instead of 
making a meal of us, may turn round jn his den, and go to sleep. 



PEACE OF AMIENS, 45 

— This is not stated in so many words : but it will be difficult to 
show, that it is not the fair result of the arguments. 

That I should have lived to see the day, when such arguments 
could be used in a British House of Commons ! — that 1 should 
have lived to see a House of Commons, where such arguments 
could be heard with patience, and even with complacency ! — The 
substance of the statement is this. We make Peace, not from any 
necessity actually existing, (my Honourable Friends, with great 
propriety, reject that supposition,) but because we foresee a 
period, at no great distance, when such a necessity must arise; 
and we think it right, that provision for such a case should be 
made in tima — We treat, or, to take at once the more appropriate 
term, we capitulate, while we have yet some ammunition left. 
General Menou could do no more. General Menou could do no 
more in one sense ; but in another he did, I fear, a great deal 
more : — a point to M'hich I must say a word hereafter ; — he did 
not abandon to their fate those whom he had invited to follow his 
fortunes, and to look up to him as their protector. Both, however, 
capitulated ; and upon the plain and ordinary grounds of such a 
proceeding, namely, that their means of resistance must soon 
come to an end, and that they had no such hopes of any fortunate 
turn in their favour, as to justify a continuance of their resistance 
in the mean time. The conduct of both, in the circumstances 
supposed, was perfectly rational : but let us recollect, that those 
who stand in such circumstances, be they generals or be they 
nations, are, to all intents and purposes, conquered ! I know not 
what other definition we want of being conquered, than that a 
country can say to us, " we can hold out, and you cannot ; make 
Peace, or we will ruin you :" and that you, in consequence, make 
Peace, upon terms which must render a renewal of hostilities, 
under any provocation, more certainly fatal than a continuation 
of that War, which you already declare yourselves unable to 
bear. 

If such be the fact, we may amuse ourselves with talking what 
language we please ; but we are a conquered people. Buonaparte 
is as much our master, as he is of Spain or Prussia, or any other 
of those countries, which, though still permitted to call themselves 
independent, are, as every body knows, as completely in his 
power, as if the name of department was already written upon 
their foreheads. — There are but two questions, — Is the relation 
between the countries such, that France can ruin us by continuing 
the War? and will that relation in substance remain the same, or 
rather wijl it not be rendered infinitely worse, by Peace, upon the 
terms now proposed ? — If both these questions are answered in 
the affirmative, the whole is decided, and we live henceforward 
by sufferance from France. 



46 PEACE OF AMIENS. 

Sir, before we endeavour to estimate our prospects in this new 
and honourable state of existence, I wish to consider for a moment, 
what the reasonings are, that have determined our choice, as to 
the particular mode of it ; and why we think that ruin by War 
must be so much more speedy and certain, than ruin by Peace. 
And here I will take pretty much the statement given by the 
Honourable Gentlemen who argue on the other side. 

I agree, that the question is not, whether this Peace be good or 
bad, honourable or dishonourable, adequate or inadequate; whether 
it places us in a situation better or worse, than we had reason to 
expect, or than we were in before the War. All these are parts 
of the question, and many of them A^ery material parts ; but the 
question itself is, whether the Peace now pi'oposed, such as it is, 
be better, or not, than a continuation of hostilities ? — Whether, 
according to a familiar mode of speech, we may not go farther 
and fare worse? — Whether, to take the same form in a manner 
somewhat more developed and correct, the chances of faring 
better, compared with the chances of faring worse, and including 
the certainty of intermediate evils, do not render it advisable, 
upon the whole, that we should rest contented where we are. 

This I take to be the statement of the question, on the present, 
and on all similar occasions: nor do I know of any addition 
necessary to be made, except to observe, that in estimating the 
terms of Peace in the manner here proposed, you are not merely 
to consider the physical force, or pecuniary value, of the objects 
concerned, but also the effect which Peace, made in such and 
such circumstances, is likely to have on the character and esti- 
mation of the country ; a species of possession, which, though 
neither tangible nor visible, is as much a part of national strength, 
and has as real a value, as any thing that can be turned into 
pounds and shillings, that can be sold by the score or hundred, or 
weighed out in avoirdupoise. Accordingly a statesman, acting 
for a great country, may very well be in the situation of saying, — 
I would make Peace at this time, if nothing more were in ques- 
tion, than the value of the objects now offered me, compared with 
those which I may hope to obtain ; but when I consider what the 
effect is, which Peace, made in the present circumstances, will 
have upon the estimation of the country ; what the weakness is 
which it will betray ; what the suspicions it will excite ; what the 
distrust and alienation it will produce, in the minds of all the sur- 
rounding nations ; how it will lower us in their eyes ; how it will 
teach them universally to fly from connexion with a country, 
which neither protects its friends, nor seems any longer capable 
of protecting itself, in order to turn to those, who, while their 
vengeance is terrible, will not suffer a hair of the head to be 
touched, of any who will put themselves under their protection; — 



PEACE OF AMIENS. 47 

when I consider these consequences, not less real or permanent, 
or extensive, than those which present themselves in the shape of 
teriitorial strength or commercial resomxes, I must reject these 
terms, which otherwise I should feel disposed to accept, and say, 
that, putting character into the scale, the inclination of the balance 
is decidedly the other way. 

Sir, there is in all this nothing new or refined, or more than 
will be admitted by every one in words ; though there seems so 
little disposition to adhere to it in fact. — If we refer to the prac- 
tice of only our own time, what was the case of the Falkland 
Islands and Nootka t Was it the value of these objects, that we 
were going to War for ? The one was a barren rock, an object 
of competition for nothing but seals and seagulls; the other a 
point of land in a wilderness, where some obscure, though spirited, 
adventurers had hoped that they might in time establish a trade 
with the savages for furs. Were these, objects to involve nations 
in Wars 1 If there was a question of their doing so, it was 
because considerations of a far different kind were attached to 
them, — considerations of national honour and dignity; between 
which and the objects themselves, there may often be no more 
proportion, than between the picture of a great master, and the 
canvas on which it is painted. 

If I wished for authorities upon such a subject, I need go no 
further than to the Honourable Gentleman, [Mr. Fox,] who has 
recurred to a sentiment, produced by him formerly with something 
of paradoxical exaggeration, (though true in the main,) namely, 
that Wars for points of honour, are really the only rational and 
prudential Wars in which a country can engage. Much of the 
same sort is the sentiment of another piopular teacher, Junius, 
who, upon the subject of these very Falkland Islands, says, in 
terms which it may be worth while to quote, not for the merit of 
the language, nor the authority of the writer, — though neither of 
them without their value, — but to show, what were once the feel- 
ings of Englishmen, and what the topics chosen by a writer, 
whose object it was to recommend himself to the people : " To 
depart, in the minutest article, from the nicety and strictness of 
punctilio, is as dangerous to national honour, as it is to female 
virtue. The woman who admits of one familiarity, seldom knows 
where to stop, or what to refuse ; and when the counsels of a 
great country give way in a single instance, when they are once 
inclined to submission, every step accelerates the rapidity of their 
descent !" 

We are not therefore, according to the present fashion, to fall 
to calculating, and to ask ourselves, what is the value at market 
of such and such an object, and how much it will cost us to 
obtain it. If these objects alone were at stake, I should admit the 



48 PEACE OF AMIENS. 

principle in its full force ; and should be among the first to declare, 
that no object of mere pecuniary value could ever be worth ob- 
taining at the price of a War: but when particular points of 
honour are at stake, as at Nootka or the Falkland Islands, (with- 
out inquiring, whether in those cases the point of honour was 
either well chosen, or rightly estimated ;) and still more, where 
general impression, where universal estimation, where the concep- 
tion to be formed of the feelings, temper, power, policy, and views 
of a great nation are in question, there to talk of calculating the 
loss or profit of possessions to which these considerations may be 
attached, by their price at market, or the value of their fee-simple, 
is like the idea of Dr. Swift, when he is comparing the grants to 
the Duke of Marlborough, with the rewards of a Roman con- 
queror, and estimates the crown of laurel at two-pence. 

The first question for a great country to ask itself, — the first in 
point of order, and the first in consequence,^s this : Is the part 
which I am about to act consonant to that high estimation which 
I have hitherto maintained among the nations of the world ? Will 
my reputation suflTer ?— whether that reputation relate to the sup- 
posed extent of its means, to the vigour and wisdom of its councils, 
or to the uprightness of its intentions. If, in any of these ways, 
the country is to sustain a loss of character ; if the eflfect of what 
is proposed be to render it less respected, less looked up to, less 
trusted, less feared ; if its firmness in times of trial, its fidelity to 
its engagements, its steady adherence to its purposes through all 
fortunes, are to be called in question ; it must be a strong neces- 
sity indeed, stronger than any which I believe to exist in the 
present instance, that ought to induce it even to listen to counsels 
liable to be attended with any of these consequences. It must be 
a weighty danger, that, in the scales of a great country, can be 
allowed to balance the loss of any part of its dignity. What then 
shall we say of a country, which, abandoning from the outset 
every consideration of this sort, will not wait till it becomes in- 
secure by ceasing to be respectable, but becomes unrespectable 
by ceasing to be secure ? Which drops at once at the feet of its 
rival 1 Which begins by a complete surrender of its security ; 
and suffers fame, character, dignity, and every thing else, to go 
along with it ? 

Whether such is the situation of this country, we shall judge 
better by taking a short view of the terms of the proposed Peace. 
The description of these is simple and easy: — France gives 
nothing, and, excepting Trinidad and Ceylon, England gives 
every thing. If it were of any consequence to state what in 
diplomatic language was the basis of this treaty, we must say, 
that it had no one basis ; but that it was the status quo, on the 
part of England, with the two exceptions in its favour, of Ceylon 



PEACE OF AMIENS. 49 

and Trinidad; and tlie uti possidetis, with the addition of all the 
other English conquests, on the part of France. But what may 
be the technical description of the treaty, is, comparatively, of 
little importance. It is the result that is material, and the extent 
of power and territory, now, by whatever means, actually remain- 
ing in the hands of France. The enumeration of this, liable indeed 
in part to be disputed, but upon the whole sufficiently correct, may 
be made as follows: 

In Europe, — France possesses the whole of the Continent, with 
the exception of Russia and Austria. If it be said, that parts of 
Germany, and the Northern courts of Denmark and Sweden, are 
not fairly described as being immediately under the control of 
France, we must balance this consideration by remarking, the 
influence which France possesses in these governments, and the 
commanding position which she occupies with respect to Austria, 
by the possession of Switzerland and Mantua, and those countries 
which have been considered always, and twice in the course of 
the present War, have proved to be, the direct inlet into the heart 
of her dominions. 

In Asia, — Pondichery, Mahe, Cochin, Negapatam, the Spice 
Islands. 

In Africa, — the Cape of Good Hope, Goree, Senegal. 

In the sea that is enclosed by these three continents, which 
connects them all, and furnishes to us, in many respects, our best 
and surest communication with them, — the Mediterranean, — every 
port and post except Gibraltar, from one end of it to the other, 
including the impregnable and invaluable port of Malta ; so as to 
exclude us from a sea, which it had ever before been the anxious 
pohcy of Great Britain to keep in her hands, — and to render it 
now, truly and properly, what it was once idly called, the Sea of 
France. 

In the West-Indies, — St. Domingo, both the French and Span- 
ish parts, Martinico, St. Lucie, Guadaloupe, Tobago, Curacoa. 

In North America, — St. Pierre and Miquelon, with a right 
to the fisheries in the fullest extent to which they were ever 
claimed ; Louisiana, (so it is supposed,) a word dreadful to be 
pronounced, to all who consider the consequences with which 
that cession is pregnant, whether as it acts northward, by its 
effects upon the United States, or southward, as opening a direct 
passage into the Spanish settlements in America. 

In South America, — Surinam, Demerara, Berbice, Essequibo, 
taken by us and now ceded ; — Guiana, and by the effect of the. 
Treaty, fraudulently signed by France with Portugal, just before 
the signature of these Preliminaries, a tract of country extending 
to the river Amazon, and giving to France the command of the 
entrance into that river. Whether, by any secret article, the evils 
5 G 



50 PEACE OF AMIENS. 

of this cession will prove to have been done away, time will dis- 
cover. In fact, (be that as it may,) France may be said to 
possess the whole of the Spanish and Portuguese settlements 
upon that Continent. For who shall say, that she has not the 
command of those settlements, when she has the command of the 
countries to which they belong; — cum custodit ipsos custodes? 
She has, in truth, whatever part of the Contment of South America 
she chooses to occupy ; and as far as relates to the Spanish part, 
without even the necessity, a necessity that probably would not 
cost her much, of infringing any part of the present treaty. 

■Such is the grand and comprehensive circle to which the New 
Roman Empire may be soon expected to spread, now that Peace 
has removed all obstacles, and opened to her a safe and easy 
passage into the three remaining quarters of the globe. Such is 
the power which we are required to contemplate without dismay ! 
under the shade of whose greatness we are invited to lie down 
with perfect tranquillity and composure ! I should be glad to know 
what our ancestors would have thought and felt in this situation I 
what those weak and deluded men, so inferior to the poHticians 
of the present day, the Marlboroughs, the Godolphins, the 
Somerses, the King WilUams, all those who viewed with such 
apprehension the power of Louis XIV. ; what they would say to 
a Peace, which not only confirms to France the possession of 
nearly the whole of Europe, but extends her empire over every 
other part of the globe. Is there a man of them, who would not 
turn in his coffin, could he be sensible to a twentieth part of that 
which is passing, as perfect matter of course, in the pohtics of 
the present moment ? 

But to all these mighty dangers we have, it seems, one great 
security to oppose ; not that degrading and bastard security to 
which I have before adverted, and to which, I fear, I must again 
recur, — that France is lassata if not satiaia; that having run 
down her prey, she will be content to spare it, and be willing for 
awhile to leave us unmolested ; — but a rational, sober, well-found- 
ed security, applicable to the supposition that she may not be 
wanting in the will to hurt us, but will happily not possess the 
power. This great security, we are told, is our wealth. We 
are, it seems, so immensely rich, our prosperity stands on so sure 
and wide a basis, we have such a pyramid of gold, so beautifully 
constructed, and so firmly put together, that we may safely let in 
all the world to do their worst against it ; they can never over- 
turn it, and might spend ages in endeavouring to take it to pieces. 
We seem to consider our commercial prosperity, like those 
articles of property, timber, marble, and others of that sort, which, 
however valuable, may be safely left unguarded, being too 
weighty and bulky to be carried away. 



PEACE OF AMIENS. 51 

Sir, the first circumstance that strikes one in this statement, is, 
that odd inconsistency, by which a country that makes Peace on 
account of its poverty, is to rest its whole hope of security in 
that Peace, upon its wealth. If our wealth will protect us, it is 
a great pity that this discovery was not made long ago ; it would 
have saved us many years of painful struggle ; have kept in our 
hands a great additional portion of these very means of protec- 
tion ; and have lessened considerably the dangers against which 
such protection is wanted. But wealth, I fear, abstracted from 
certain means of using it, carries with it no powers of protection, 
either for itself or others. Riches are strength, in the same manner 
only as they are food. They may be the means of procuring 
both. But we shall fall into as great a folly, as in the fable of 
Midas, if we suppose that when we have laid down our arms, 
and surrendered our fortresses, our wealth, alone, can afford us 
any protection. I cannot, therefore, for my own part, understand 
what is meant by this, unless it be, that by superiority of capital, 
and priority of market, of which I allow the effects to be 
immense, we might, if things were left to themselves, in a 
fair competition, in a fair race, still keep ahead of our competi- 
tors, in spite of all the multiplied advantages which France will 
now possess. This might be so ; though it is by no means 
clear that it would. But the competition will not be left to its 
natural course. This game will not be fairly played. Buonaparte 
is a player, who, if the game is going against him, will be apt to 
pick a quarrel, and ask us if we can draw our swords. — And 
here, perhaps, it is time to remark the singular fallacy, which has 
run through all the reasonings of Gentlemen on the other side ; 
that, namely, of supposing that in discussing the present question, 
the Peace, such as it is, is the state which is to be contrasted with 
the continuance of the War; — they forget, or choose that we 
should forget, that this Peace may, at any moment, at the mere 
pleasure of the enemy, be converted into a new War ; differing 
only from the other, by the ground which we in the meanwhile 
shall have lost, and the numerous advantages which the enemy 
will have acquired. There is not the least reason why this Treaty, 
if the enemy should so please, should be any thing more than a 
mere piece of legerdemain, by which they shall have got posses- 
sion of Malta, have established themselves in all their new colonies, 
have perhaps re-entered Egypt, have received back twenty or thirty 
thousand seamen, and have otherwise put themselves into a situa- 
tion to recommence the War, with new and decisive advantages. 
If they do not immediately take this course, it will be, simply, be- 
cause they will hope to succeed as well without it ; or, because they 
choose to defer it till a more convenient opportunity : the means 
will, at every moment, be in their power. 



52 PEACE OF AMIENS. 

Two suppositions are, therefore, always to be made, and two 
comparisons to be instituted, when we talk of the merits of this 
Peace: 1st. That the enemy will choose to adhere to it, or, 2dly, 
that they will break it : and the two comparisons to be formed in 
consequence are, 1st, The comparison between a continuation of 
the War and a state of Peace, such as Peace will be under the 
present Treaty ; and 2dly, a comparison of the War, so continued, 
with such a War as France may revive at any moment after the 
present Treaty shall have taken effect. 

What the condition and feelings of the country would be, in 
this latter case, namely that of a renewed War, I need hardly 
point out. The dread in fact of what they would be, will operate 
so strongly, that the case will never happen. The country will 
never bear to put itself in a situation, in which the sense of its 
own folly will press upon it in a way so impossible to be endured. 
At all events, with its present feelings and opinions, the country 
never can go to war again, let France do what she will: for, if 
we are of opinion, that War, continued at present, must be ruin 
in the course of a few years, what do we suppose it must be, when, 
to replace us where we now are, we must begin by the recovery 
of that list of places, which the present treaty has given up ? 
France, therefore, will be under no necessity of.going to War 
with us ; and nothing but her own intemperance and insolence, 
and an opinion of our endurance and weakness, beyond even what 
they may be found to deserve, can force upon us that extremity. 
She has much surer and safer means of going to work, means, at 
the same time, sufficiently quick in their operation to satisfy any 
ordinary ambition : — she has nothing to do but to trust to the pro- 
gress of her own power in Peace, quickened, as often as she shall 
see occasion, by a smart threat of War. I cannot conceive the 
object, which a judicious appUcation of these two means is not 
calculated to obtain. A Peace, such as France has now made, 
mixed with proper proportions of a seasonable menace of war, 
is a specific, for the undoing of a rival country, which seems to 
me impossible to fail. — Let us try it in detail. — Suppose France, 
by an arrangement with that independent power, Spain, similar 
to the arrangement which, in violation of the treaty of Utrecht, 
produced the surrender of Louisiana and of the Spanish half of 
St. Domingo, should obtain the cession (which would be in viola- 
tion of no treaty) of all the Spanish settlements in America: 
would you consider that as an occasion of war? Suppose Por- 
tugal, the integrity of whose possessions is in some sense or other 
guarantied to her, but who is not prevented, I presume, by that 
guarantee from parting with any of them that she pleases, should 
choose, in kindness to France, to make over to her any of those 
settlements which she, Portugal, still retains, — would that, again. 



PEACE OF AMIENS. 53 

be a cause of war ? By these two ways, without the infraction 
of any Treaty, which by any act could be construed to be an 
aggression, much less which we should be inclined to treat as 
such, might France render herself completely mistress of the 
Continent of South America. Is there any commercial claim, 
then, that France could set up, any commercial regulation which 
she could introduce, either in her own name, or that of her allies, 
of a nature the most injurious and fatal to our commerce, which 
we should make a case of resistance, and think of magnitude 
enough to involve the nation in another war? — The augmentation 
of her marine, to which professedly she means to direct all her 
efforts, and the increase of her establishments to any amount that 
she pleases ; these are objects which it would be perfectly ridicu- 
lous to talk of, or to suppose that we should make the subject even 
of the most friendly remonstrance. Indeed, according to the 
modern doctrines of not interfering in the internal concerns of 
another country, I do not understand upon what pretence the 
armament of a state can ever become a subject of representation, 
since nothing surely is so completely an internal concern, as what 
any nation does with its own military or naval forces, upon its 
own soil, or in its own harbours. But setting aside these smaller 
objects, suppose France was to re-invade Egypt ; was, without 
waiting even for the form of a surrender from the Order, to take 
forcible possession of Malta ; was to land a body of troops in 
Greece, and either in that way, or by succours to Paswan Oglow, 
was to overset the government of the Porte ; — would you be able, 
on any of these occasions, to satisfy those by whose opinions it is 
now the fashion to guide the counsels of states, that an interest 
existed sufficiently strong to call for the interference of this coun- 
try, to prevent the mischief, much less to redress and vindicate it 
when done ? Why, Sir, we know that in the present state of 
opinions and feelings, and upon the principles on which the 
present Peace has been made, not only no one, but hardly all of 
these put together, would drag the country into a renewal of hos- 
tilities, though, as is evident, its very existence might depend 
upon it. The consequence is, that France is our mistress ; that 
there is nothing she can ask, which she must not have ; (she has 
only to threaten war, and her work is done ;) — that all the objects 
of interest and ambition which France can have in view, lie open 
before her, to be taken possession of whenever she pleases, and 
without a struggle : her establishments will accumulate round us, 
till we shall be lost and buried in them ; her power will grow over 
us, till, like the figures in some of Ovid's Metamorphoses, we shall 
find all our faculties of life and motion gradually failing and de- 
serting us. 



54 PEACE OF AMIENS. 

Torpor gravis alligat artus ; 

Mollia cinguntur tenui pr£Bcordia libro. 

If, in this last extremity, we should make any desperate efforts 
and plunges, that might thr«aten to become troublesome, and give 
us a chance of extricating ourselves, she will call in the aid of 
her arms, and with one blow put an end at once to our sufferings, 
and our existence. 

Sir, are these idle dreams, the phantoms of my own disordered 
imagination 1 or are they real and serious dangers, the existence 
of which no man of common sense, let his opinions of the Peace 
be what they may, will attempt to deny 1 The utmost that any 
man will pretend to say, is, that he hopes, (and so do I,) that the 
evils apprehended will not happen ; and that, great as the risk 
may be, he thinks it preferable to those risks, which would attend 
a continuation of the War. None but the most weak or incon- 
siderate, if they are not disaffected, or absorbed and lost in the 
sense of some immediate personal interest, will feel, when they 
shall well understand the subject, that there is any cause of joy 
or rejoicing. 

Here it is then, that I must advert again to that topic of conso- 
lation, (miserable indeed must our state be, when such are our 
topics of consolation,) to which, in order to make out a case not 
perfectly hopeless, we are wiUing to have recourse, and which, 
more I believe than any rehance upon our weaUh, does really 
support us, in the situation to which we are reduced. This is the 
idea, that from some cause or other, from some combination of 
passions and events, — such as no philosophy can explain, and no 
history probably furnish an example of, — the progress of the 
Revolution will stop where it is ; and that Buonaparte, like another 
Pyrrhus, — or rather Hke that adviser of Pyrrhus, whose advice 
was not taken, — instead of proceeding to the conquest of new 
worlds, will be willing to sit down contented in the enjoyment of 
those which he has already. 

Sir, the great objection to this hope, to say nothing of its base- 
ness, is its utter extravagance. On what possible ground do we 
believe this 1 Is it in the general nature of ambition 1 Is it in the 
nature of French ambition ? Is it in the nature of French revo- 
lutionary ambition 1 Does it happen coinmonly to those, whether 
nations or individuals, who are seized with the spirit of aggran- 
dizement and acquisition, that they are inclined rather to count 
what they possess, than to look forward to what yet remains to 
be acquired ? If we examine the French Revolution, and trace 
it correctly to its causes, we shall find that the scheme of universal 
empire was, from the beginning, that which was looked to as the 
real consummation of its labours ; the object first in view, though 



PEACE OF ^AMIENS, 55 

last to be accomplished ; the primum mobile that originally set it 
in motion, and has since guided and governed all its movements. 

The authors of the Revolution wished to destroy morality and 
religion. They wished those things as ends: but they wished 
them also, as means, in a higher and more extensive design. They 
wished for a double empire ; an empire of opinion and an empire 
of political power : and they used the one of these, as a means 
of effecting the other. What reason have we to suppose, that 
they have renounced those designs, just when they seem to touch 
the moment of their highest and fullest accompHshment ? When 
there is but one country, that remains between France and the 
empire of the world, then is the moment, when we choose to sup- 
pose that all opposition may be withdrawn, and that the ambition 
of France w^ill stop of its own accord. — It is impossible not to 
see in these feeble and sickly imaginations, that fatal temper of 
mind, which leads men to look for help and comfort from any 
source rather than from their own exertions. We are become of 
a sudden great hopers. We hope the French will have no incli- 
nation to hurt us ; — we hope, now Peace is come, and the pressure 
of War, as it is called, taken off, that the French Empire will 
become a prey to dissensions, and finally fall to pieces ; — we hope, 
that the danger to have been apprehended from the example of 
the Revolution, is now worn out ; and that Buonaparte, being now 
monarch himself, will join with us in the support of monarchical 
principles, and become a sort of collateral security for the British 
constitution. One has heard, to be sure, that magni animi est 
sperare ; but the maxim, to have any truth in it, must be confined, 
I apprehend, to those hopes which are to be prosecuted through 
the medium of men's own exertions, and not be extended to those, 
which are to be independent of their exertions, or rather, as in the 
present instance, are meant to stand in lieu of them. 

Of this description are all those expectations which I have just 
enumerated ; one of which is, that the French will fall into dis- 
sensions. — Why, Sir, they have had nothing else but dissensions 
from the beginning. But of what avail have such dissensions 
been to the safety of other countries ? One of their first dissen- 
sions was a war of three years, called the war of La Vendee ; in 
which, according to some of their calculations, the Republic lost, 
between the two sides, to the number of 600,000 souls. This 
was surely pretty well, in the way of dissension. Yet when 
did this interrupt for a moment, even if it might in some degree 
have relaxed, the operations of their armies on the frontiers, and 
the prosecution of their plans for the overthrow of other countries? 
As for changes of government, they have been in a continued 
course of them. Since the beginning of the Revolution, the 
government has been overturned at least half a dozen times. They 



66 PEACE OF AMIENS. 

have turned over in the air, as in sport, like tumbler-pigeons ; — - 
but have they ever in consequence ceased their thght? The internal 
state of the country has been in the most violent commotion. The 
ship has been in mutiny ; — 'there has been fighting in the waist 
and on the forecastle ; — but in the midst of the confusion some- 
body has always been found to tend the helm, and to trim the 
sails ; the vessel has held her course. — For one, therefore, I have 
no great confidence in the efiect of these internal commotions; 
which every day become less and less likely, in proportion as the 
power of the present government becomes more confirmed, and 
as the people of France become more and more bound together 
by the common feeling of national glory, and by the desire of 
consolidating the empire which they have seen established. Such 
commotions may undoubtedly happen, and may of a sudden, 
when it is least expected, bring about some change that is 
favourable to the world. But it is curious to hear these chances 
gravely brought forward, as the best foundation of our hopes, 
and by those too, who a few weeks ago, while the war continued, 
would never hear of them, as entering, at all, into calculation. 
It seems, that the chapter of accidents, as it is called, which could 
do nothing for us in War, may do every thing for us in time of 
Peace. Whereas I should have thought just the contrary ; that 
chances, such as are here intended, were not only more likely to 
happen in war, but, what is a little material, might then be better 
improved and turned to account. While War subsists, while 
armies are ready to act, while confederacies are in force, while 
intelligences are going on, while assistance may be lawfully and 
avowedly given, every chance of this sort may, if properly im- 
proved, lead to consequences the most decisive. In Peace, all 
that fortune can do for us, falls dead and still-born. Nobody is 
ready, nobody is authorized to move a step, or stretch forth a 
hand, to rear and foster those chances, however promising, which 
time and accident may bring forth. It is not an answer to say, 
that such never have been improved. In regulating plans of future 
conduct, we must consider not what men have done, but what 
they may and ought to do. The only rational idea that I could 
ever form of resistance to that power, which unresisted must sub- 
due the world, was, that it must be the joint effect of an internal 
and an external war, directed to the same end, and mutually aid- 
ing and supporting each other. All the powers of Europe could 
not subdue France, if France was united ; or force upon it a 
government, even were such an attempt warrantable, really in 
opposition to the wishes of the people. On the other hand, no 
internal efforts, unassisted by force from without, seemed capable 
of rescuing the country from the yoke imposed upon it, so long 
as the several factions that governed in succession, could find 



PEACE OF AMIENS. 57 

means of securing to themselves the support of the armies. We 
are now required to beHeve, that what has hitherto failed to be 
performed by both these powers together, is to be effected by one 
alone : and tiiat with respect to any hope of a change of govern- 
ment in France, the War that has been carrying on for nine years 
has proved only an impediment ! — Such is the state of our hopes 
and opinions on that side. 

But we have another hope, founded on rather a contrary sup- 
position, namely, that Buonaparte, now that he is a King himself — 
and a King he is so far as power can make one, — will no longer 
be an encourager of those absurd and mischievous doctrines, 
which, however they may have helped him to the throne, will be 
as little pleasing to him, now that he is fairly seated there, as to 
any the most legitimate Monarch. Sir, I agree, that Buonaparte, 
like other demagogues and friends of the people, having deluded 
and gulled the people sufficiently to make them answer his pur- 
pose, will be ready enough to teach them a different lesson, and 
to forbid the use of that language towards himself, which he had 
before instructed them in, as perfectly proper towards others. 
Never was there any one, to be sure, who used less management 
in that respect, or who left all the admirers of the French Revo- 
lution, within and without, — all the admirers of it, I mean, as a 
system of liberty, — in a more whimsical and laughable situation. 
Every opinion for which they have been contending, is now com- 
pletely trodden down, and trampled upon, or held out in France 
to the greatest possible contempt and derision. The Honourable 
Gentlemen on the Op-position Benches have really great reason to 
complain of having been so completely left in t^e lurch. There 
is not even a decent retreat provided for them. 

But though such is the treatment, which the principles of " the 
Rights of Man," and of the " Holy Duty of Insurrection," meet 
with in France, and on the part of him who should be their 
natural pi-otector, it is by no means the same, with respect to the 
encouragement which he may choose to give them in other coun- 
tries. Though they use none of these goods in France for home- 
consumption, they have always a large assortment by them ready 
for foreign markets. Their Jacobin Orators are not to be looked 
for in the clubs at Paris, but in the clubs of London. There, they 
may talk of cashiering Kings, with other language of that sort : 
but should any orator more flippant than the rest choose to hold 
forth in that strain, in the city where the Great Consul resides, in 
the metropolis of liberty, he would soon put him to silence, in the 
way that we see adopted in the sign of the Silent Woman. 
Buonaparte, being invested, in virtue of the Rights of Man, with 
despotic power, can afford to sanction the preaching of those 
doctrines in other countries, of which he wiU not suffer the least 
H 



58 PEACE OF AMIENS. 

whisper in his own. While he is at the head of an absolute 
monarchy in France, he may be the promoter and champion of 
Jacobin insurrections everywhere else. The abject as well as 
wicked nature of Jacobinism in this country, which, while it 
would rebel against the lawful authority of its own government, 
is willing to enslave itself to France, finds no difficulty of allowing 
to him these two opposite characters : and I know no reason why 
we should suppose him disinclined to accept them. 

I must confess, therefore, that I see as little hope for us on this 
side, as I do on the other. In fact, if I could believe, in spite of 
all probability, that there was any remission of that purpose, 
which has never yet ceased for an instant, — the purpose of 
destroying this country, — such belief, however produced, must be 
instantly done away by a view of the conduct of France, in the 
settlement of this very treaty. There is not a line of it, that does 
not either directly point to the destruction of this country, or, by 
a course a little circuitous, but not less certain, equally tend to the 
same object. What can France want with any of the possessions 
which she has compelled us to surrender, but with a view of 
rivalling our power, or of subverting it, or of removing out of our 
hands the means of controlling her further projects of ambition? 
— Of the first sort are all her stipulations for settlements in South 
America and the West-Indies : of the second, her demand of the 
Cape and Cochin ; and of the last, that most marked and dis- 
graceful condition on our part, the surrender of Malta. What 
upon earth could France have to do with Malta, but either as a 
means of humbling us in the eyes of all the world, by the surren- 
der of it, or of depriving us of a port in the Mediterranean that 
might stand in the way of designs which she is meditating against 
the countries bordering upon that sea ? The miserable pretexts 
which are formed to palliate this surrender, and the attempt to 
cover it, in part, by the show of delivering that fortress to the 
Order, though much the greater part of the Order are now living 
in the dominions of Buonaparte, and many of them actually 
serving in his armies, are wholly insuffiicient, either to conceal our 
shame, or to disguise the purpose of the French in making this 
demand. But the circumstances of the negotiation, not less than 
the treaty resulting from it, show, in another way, the folly of 
those hopes, which are founded upon the supposed intentions or 
characters of the persons with whom it is made. It does not 
augur very favourably for the intentions of a party in any trans- 
action, that there appear in every stage of it the clearest proofs 
of duplicity and fraud. — What do we think of the artifice, which 
signs a treaty with us, guarantying the integrity of Portugal ; but 
previously to that, at a period so late, as to make it sure that the 
knowledge of the transaction shall not reach this country in time, 



PEACE OF AMIENS. 59 

signs another treaty, totally altering the nature of that guarantee? 
What shall we think of the candour and fairness, which, in a 
treaty with us, proposes, as a joint stipulation, the evacuation of 
Egypt, at a time when the proposers knew, though we did not, 
that every soldier of theirs in Egypt was actually a prisoner to 
our troops ? Where was their good faith to the Turks, when, in 
the same circumstances, they knowing the fact and the Turks not, 
they took credit from the Turks for this very evacuation ? Why, 
Sir, it is a fraud upon a level with any of those practised at a 
lottery-office. They insure the ticket, at the moment when they 
know it to be drawn. And are these the people, to whose gene- 
rosity and forbearance, to whose good intentions towards this 
country, and above all, to whose good faith, we are to deliver 
over, bound hand and foot, the interests of the British Empire, 
to be destroyed or saved, as thev, in their good pleasure, shall 
think fit? 

I say nothing here on a topic, however closely connected with 
the present subject, the character of the First Consul himself — a 
character hitherto as much marked by frauds of the most dis- 
graceful kind, as by every other species of guilt ; but pass on to 
the question, which meets us at every turn, and seems to stop the 
progress of all argument, the great question — " What are we to 
do? The danger is great, but how are we to avoid it? War 
cannot be eternal, and what prospect have we of reaching a 
period, when it may be terminated in circumstances upon the 
whole more favourable than the present ?" 

Sir, the word, eternal, which in any use of it is sufficiently 
awful, will undoubtedly not be least so, when associated with the 
idea of War. But I must beg leave to remind the House of a 
circumstance, of which they and the country seem never to have 
been at all aware, that the question of eternal War, is one, which 
it is not left for us to decide. It is a question which must be 
asked of our enemies : and is not less proper to be asked, if we 
could hope that they would answer us, at the present moment, 
than it was before the signature of the preliminaries. The War 
depends neither upon conventions to be entered into between the 
two governments, nor upon acts of hostility which may be com- 
mitted between the two peoples, by land or on the high seas ; but 
on the existence or non-existence of that fixed, rooted, determined 
purpose, which France has hitherto had, and which we have no 
reason whatever to think she has relinquished — of accomplishing 
the final overthrow of this country. While that purpose exists, 
and shall be acted upon, we are at War, call our state by what 
name you please : and the only question is, whether France cannot 
work as effectually to her purpose in Peace ; and if Peace is made 
in a certain way, infinitely more effectually than she can in what 



60 PEACE OF AMIENS. 

is professedly and declaredly War. I would really wish to ask, 
whether Gentlemen have never heard of a people called the 
Romans, a set of republicans who conquered the world in the 
old time ; and whom the modern Romans take as their model in 
every respect ; but in none more than in what relates to the over- 
throw of this country? Among the nations that fell under the 
Roman yoke, there were but few whom they were able to fetch 
down at a blow, — to reduce in the course of a single War. All 
their greater antagonists, particularly the state whose fate is 
chosen as a prototype of our own, were not reduced till after 
repeated attacks, till after several successive and alternate pro- 
cesses of War and Peace : a victorious War preparing the way 
for an advantageous Peace; and an advantageous Peace again 
laying the foundation of a successful War. This was at least the 
conduct of a great people ; a people not to be put aside from their 
purposes by every transient blast of fortune. They had vowed 
the destruction of Carthage ; and they never rested from their 
design, till they had seen it finally accomplished. The emulators 
of their fortune in the present day, are, in no less a degree, the 
emulators of their virtues ; at least, of those qualities, whatever 
they may be, that give to man a command over his fellows. 
When I look at the conduct of the French Revolutionary rulers, 
as compared with that of their opponents ; when I see the gran- 
deur of their designs; the wisdom of their plans; the steadiness 
of their execution ; their boldness in acting ; their constancy in 
enduring; their contempt of all small obstacles and temporary 
embarrassments; their inflexible determination to perform such 
and such things ; and the powers which they have displayed, in 
acting up to that determination ; when I contrast these with the 
narrow views, the paltry interests, the occasional expedients, the 
desultory and wavering conduct, the want of all right feeling and 
just conception, that characterize so generally the governments 
and nations opposed to them, I confess I sink down in despond- 
ency, and am fain to admit, that if they shall have conquered the 
world, it will be by qualities by which they deserve to conquer it. 
Never were there persons, who could show a fairer title to the 
inheritance which they claim. The great division of mankind 
made by a celebrated philosopher of old, into those who were 
formed to govern, and those who were born only to obey, was 
never more strongly exemplified than by the French nation, and 
those who have sunk, or are sinking, under their yoke. Let us 
not suppose, therefore, that while these qualities, combined with 
these purposes, shall continue to exist, they will ever cease, by 
night or by day, in Peace or in War, to work their natural effect, 
— to gravitate towards their proper centre ; or that the bold, the 
Di'oud, the dignified, the determined, those who will great things, 



PEACE OF AMIENS. 61 

and will stake their existence upon the accomplishment of what 
they have willed, shall not finally prevail over those, who act upon 
the very opposite feelings ; who will " never push their resistance 
beyond their convenience ;" who ask for nothing but ease and 
safety; who look only to stave off the evil for the present day, 
and will take no heed of what may befall them on the morrow. 
We are therefore, in effect, at War at this moment : and the only 
question is, whether the War, that will henceforward proceed 
under the name of Peace, is likely to prove less operative and 
fatal, than that which has hitherto appeared in its natural and 
ordinary shape. That such is our state, is confessed by the authors 
themselves of the present Treaty, in the measures which they feel 
it necessary to recommend to the House. When did we ever hear 
before of a military establishment necessary to be kept up in time 
of Peace? The fact is, that we know that we are not at Peace;- 
not such as is fit to be so called, nor that in which we might hope 
to sit down, for some time at least, in confidence and security, in 
the free and undisturbed enjoyment of the blessings which we 
possess. We are in that state, in which the majority, I believe, 
of those who hear me, are in their hearts more desirous that we 
should be, than, in our present prostrate and defenceless situation, 
they may think it prudent to avow — in a state of armed truce ; 
and then the only questions will be, at what price we purchase 
this truce ; what our condition will be while it lasts ; and in what 
state it is likely to leave us, should it terminate otherwise than as 
we are willing to suppose. 

This brings us at once to the point. If we are to come at last 
only to an armed truce, would it not have been a shorter and bet- 
ter course, to turn our War into an armed truce, into which, in 
fact, it had pretty much turned itself, rather than to take the 
round-about way which has been now adopted, of making Peace 
by the sacrifice of all the means of future War, in order after- 
wards to form an armed truce out of that Peace ? Let us state 
the account, and consider the loss and profit on either side. 

The evils of War are, generally speaking, to be comprised 
under three heads : the loss of lives and the consequent affliction 
brought upon friends and families ; the loss of money, meaning, 
by that, money expended in a way not to be beneficial to the 
country that raises it; and the loss of money in another sense, 
that is to say, money not got ; by which I mean the interruption 
given to national industry, and the diminution of the productions 
thence arising, either by the number of hands withdrawn from 
useful labour, (which is probably, however, but little material,) or 
by the embarrassments and restraints which in a state of War 
impede and clog the operations of commerce. I do not mean, 
that there are not in War, evils which may be said not to be in- 
6 



62 PEACE OF AMIENS. 

eluded properly under any of the above heads ; among which 
may be numbered, the distress arising from sudden changes of 
property, even when the persons who lose, and those who acquire, 
are equally parts of the same community. This, however, is an 
evil that will be more felt at the beginning, than in the later 
periods of a War ; and will, in fact, be likewise felt, though in a 
less degree, by a transition even from War to Peace. The enume- 
ration now made, however, may be sufficiently correct for the pre- 
sent purpose. And, with this in our hands, let us consider, in 
what so very violent a degree, the present armed truce, or Peace, 
if you choose to call it so, diflers from what might have been our 
state, in the case so much dreaded and deprecated, of a continua- 
tion of the War. 

To take the last first, — the loss of national wealth by the inter- 
ruption given to commerce and industry; such is the singular 
nature of this War, such the unexampled consequences with 
which it has been attended, that it becomes a question, and one 
in itself of the most anxious and critical importance, on which 
side of the account the consequences of Peace in this respect are 
to be placed ; whether, instead of balancing the dangers of Peace, 
if such there are, by accessions which it will bring to our wealth 
and commerce, we are not rather called upon to prove some 
great advantages which Peace will give us in respect of security, 
in order to balance the diminution likely to be produced by it in 
our commercial opulence. That our commerce will sutler at the 
long run, admits, I fear, of no doubt. If my apprehensions are 
just, it is in the diminution of our manufactures and commerce, 
that the approaches of our ruin will first be felt : but is any one 
prepared to say that this may not happen in the first instance? 
We have, at present, subject to the inconveniences which War 
produces, nothing less than the commerce of the whole world. 
There is no part of the world to which our goods do not pass 
freely in our own ships ; while not a single merchant-ship, with 
the enemy's flag on board, does, at this moment, swim the ocean. 
Is this a state of things to be lightly hazarded ? Does the hope 
of bettering this condition, even in the minds of those most san- 
guine, so much outweigh the fear of injuring it, that these oppo- 
site chances can, upon the whole, be stated otherwise than as 
destroying each other ; and that of consequence, in the compari- 
son of War and Peace, the prospect of increased industry and 
commerce, which in general tells so much in favour of Peace, 
must not here be struck out of the account 1 On this head the 
question between Peace and War stands, to say the least of it, 
evenly balanced. 

The next of these heads, the first, indeed, in point of conse- 
quence, but the next in the order in which it is here convenient to 



PEACE OF AMIENS. 63 

consider them, is the loss of lives, and the effect which War is 
likely to have on private and individual happiness. No man can 
pretend to say, that War can continue upon any footing, however 
restricted the circle of hostilities, without the lives of men being 
liable to be sacrificed ; and no such sacrifice can be justified, or 
reconciled to the feelings of any one but by that which must 
justify every such sacrifice, however great the extent — the safety 
and essential interests of the State. But if ever there was a 
War in which such sacrifices seemed likely to be few, not as an 
effect of any choice of ours, but by the necessary course of 
events, it was that which we should have had to carry on in 
future with the Republic of .France. 

The great and destructive operations of War, the conflict of 
fleets or armies, or the consumption of men in unwholesome 
climates and distant expeditions, had ceased of themselves. 
I know not what expeditions we should have had to prosecute, 
unless new cases should have arisen, similar to that of the ever- 
memorable one of Egypt ; where, the same motives existing, we 
should be sorry, indeed, not to have the means of acting upon 
them. But in general, our fleets would have remained quietly at 
their stations, and our armies have lived at home : the whole 
question reduces itself to a mere question of expense; and that 
again pretty much to a mere question of establishment. — The 
great heads of war expenditure, the army extraordinaries, would, 
in most parts, have ceased ; and in the rest, have been greatly 
reduced. The chief question will be, not between an ordinary 
Peace establishment and a War, such as, from circumstances, 
ours has hitherto been, involving expeditions to all parts of the 
globe; but between a Peace establishment, such as that which is 
now declared to be necessary, and a War, which had become, 
and was likely to continue, merely defensive ; in which we should 
have had nothing to do, but to maintain a competent force with 
little prospect of being obliged to make use of it. The advocates 
for the present Peace must find themselves always in an awkward 
dilemma, between economy and safety. We make Peace in 
order to save our money: if we reduce our establishments, what 
becomes of our security ? if we keep up our establishments, what 
becomes of our savings ? Whatever you give to one object, is 
unavoidably taken from the other. The savings of the present 
Peace, therefore, can be looked for only between the narrow 
limits of a high Peace and a low War establishment ; or, to state 
the case more correctly, between a high Peace establishment and 
a War, reduced in the manner that I have described. I wish 
that a correct estimate were formed of the difference, in point of 
expense, between these two states; recollecting always that 
among the expenses of Peace are to be counted the provisions 



64 PEACE OF AMIENS. 

necessary against the new dangers brought by the Peace itself; 
the new dangers for example, with which Jamaica, and all our 
West-India Islands are threatened by the establishment of the 
French in Saint Domingo, and other parts in that quarter of the 
world ; the new dangers to which our empire in the East is ex- 
posed, by the re-entry of the French into the peninsula of India, 
and the cession to them, for such in effect it is, of the Cape and 
Cochin ; in general, by the free passage now given to their ships 
and armies into every part of the world, and the establishment 
of them everywhere in the neighbourhood of our most valuable 
possessions. 

Against these dangers War provided, as it were, by its own 
single act. The existence of our fleets upon the ocean, with an 
Admiralty order " to burn, sink, and destroy," shut up at once, as 
under lock and key, all those attempts, which are now let loose, 
and require as many separate defences as there are parts liable to 
be attacked. A fleet cruising before Brest, therefore, was not to 
be considered as so much clear expense, to be charged to the 
account of the War ; without deducting the expense of additional 
troops and additional ships, which the absence of the fleet might 
require to be kept, for instance in the West Indies. 

With respect to home defence. Considering the little reliance 
to be placed upon the Government in France, now subsisting ; the 
still greater uncertainty with respect to any future Government 
(such as may arise at any moment) ; and the increased defence 
necessary on land, in proportion to the diminution of our force 
by sea ; I know not how we can remain secure with a military 
establishment much less considerable, than that which we should 
have had to maintain here in the case of War. — So much for the 
expenses of Peace. 

On the other hand, we must consider, what the reductions are 
that might be made in the expense of War, beyond those, 
which the very scheme and shape of the War itself would una- 
voidably produce. 

The expenses of our army, as at present established, are exces- 
sive : but what should hinder us from adopting some of those 
expedients, by which a country not more considerable than Prussia, 
under the regulations introduced by a former great monarch, is 
made capable of maintaining a military establishment superior 
to that of Great Britain ? — ^^The chief of those expedients, and 
that which we could best imitate, is, the putting at all times the 
half of the army upon the footing of militia, to be exercised only 
for a month or two, and to be at home for the remainder of the 
year. Other expedients might be suggested, if this were the 
proper occasion for discussing them. 

It is true, as may be observed, that such a reduction of expense,, 



PEACE OF AMIENS. 65 

if it can be at all effected, may be applied not less in time of Peace 
than in lime of War ; and in a comparison, therefore, between 
the two, must be counted on both sides. But tluit circumstance, 
as is plain, does not do away the efiect of what is here stated. If 
both sides are reduced, and reduced at all proportionably, the 
absolute difference, which is what we are here considering, will 
be reduced also; not to mention that, with a view to what will be 
the effect of the measure in other ways, such a reduction may be 
better applied to a large establishment, than it can to a small one. 
If an army of 80,000 men, for instance, may, for the moment, be 
reduced to half, because the remaining 40,000 will still be a suffi- 
cient force, it is not to be concluded, that a proportionate reduc- 
tion might be made in an army of only half that number, when 
the remainder, left on an emergency for the defence of the coun- 
try, would be no more than twenty thousand. Consider, there- 
fore, when the reductions capable of being made, or certain of 
themselves to happen, in a state of War, such as War might be 
expected to be if continued from the present time, and the new 
and extraordinary expenses incident to this Peace, shall have 
been fairly calculated, to what the difference between the two 
states will amount ; and taking then this difference at its utmost, 
compare the money so saved, with all the evils and dangers which 
Peace, as now proposed, will give rise to. Or, if the modern 
fashion is to prevail, and money alone to be considered, compare 
the value of the Sinking Fund created by this saving, with the 
difference, in point of mere expense, of the circumstances in which 
we shall be placed at the commencement of any future War, 
should France choose to put us under this necessity. By the result 
of these comparisons, must the question be decided. 

Should it so happen, (and who shall say, that it will not ?) that 
our commei-ce, instead of increasing, or remaining where it is, 
should fall off; that our manufactures should decline ; that, from 
these and other causes, — such as a great emigration, and con- 
siderable transfer of public property; — and above all from the 
great loss of territorial revenue, the income of the state should 
be lessened, to a degree equal only to this proposed saving, then 
we shall have incurred all the dreadful difference to be found in 
our situation in case of the renewal of War, and all the no less 
serious dangers during the continuance of Peace, absolutely for 
nothing. 

I select this only as the case which may be considered as the 
most probable. In argument, to be sure, having already agreed 
to take at par, our prospects with respect to the increase or 
decrease of our commerce and manufactures, I am not at liberty 
to insist on this case, or upon the still more fatal one of a greater 
and more extensive decrease, without allowing those who argue 
6* I "^ ^ 



66 PEACE OF AMIENS. 

on the other side, to avail themselves of the supposition, that the 
sources of national wealth may possibly be in a great degree 
augmented. 

At all events, hovi^ever, and whatever be the extent of these 
expected savings, and the improvement to be made in consequence 
in our finances, we are to estimate the evils and dangers which 
are to be placed in the opposite scale, the chief of which I have 
endeavoured to point out, though in a very hasty and summary 
manner, in the observations, with which I have already troubled 
the House. They may be classed, generally under three heads : — 
The ascendency, which it is feared, France may in time acquire, 
even in those "sources of greatness, which we seem inclined to 
consider as a substitute for all others, our manufactures and com- 
merce ; supposing, as I am here doing, that Peace continues with- 
out interruption, and even without any great advantage being 
taken, of the threat of a renewal of hostilities. Secondly, the 
effect to be produced, in a peace so constituted, by the continued 
use of this menace, — an engine of which it is difficult to calcu- 
late the force, applied, as it may be, to every point on which the 
interests of the countries are opposed, and for the accomplishment 
of every object, which France may wish to attain. Thirdly and 
lastly, War itself; begun of course at such moment, as France 
shall judge most advantageous to her, and when by a due improve- 
ment of the preceding period of Peace, Great Britain shall have 
been placed in a situation to be least capable of resisting its effects. 
On these points, having spoken to each already, as far as the 
occasion seems to admit, though far short of what the subject 
demands, I shall detain the House no longer, but leave to every 
Gentleman to form his own judgment on the extent and reality of 
these dangers, and finally to setde the comparison between these 
(with others connected with them) and the continuance of the 
War, such as War from this time might be expected to prove. 
The only head of danger, to which I wish now to speak, is one 
of a quite different nature ; but so serious, so certain, so imminent, 
so directly produced by the Peace itself, that I must not omit to 
say a few words upon it. This is the danger now first commencing; 
and which may be conveyed in a single word, but that, I fear, a 
word of great import — Intercourse. From this moment the whole 
of the principles and morals of France rush into this country 
without let or hindrance, with nothing to limit their extent, or to 
control their influence. While the War continued, not only the 
communication was little, or nothing, but whatever contagion 
might be brought in by that communication, found the country 
less in a state to receive it. The very heat and irritation of the 
War was a preservative against the infection. But now that this 
infection is to come upon us in the soft hour of Peace ; that it is 



PEACE OF AMIENS. C7 

to mix with our food ; that we are to take it into our arms ; that 
it is to be diffused in the very air we breathe ; what hope, can 
we suppose, remains to us of escaping its effects ? — This, I used 
formerly to be taught, before the weight of taxes had lessened 
our apprehensions of French fraternity, was one of the conse- 
quences most to be dreaded in Peace, in whatever form it should 
come, short of the restoration of some Government, not founded 
on Jacobinical principles. But somehow or another, the very idea 
of this danger seems long since to have vanished from our minds. 
We are now to make Peace in the very spirit of peace, and to 
throw ourselves without I'eserve into the very arms of France. 
With respect, indeed, to one part of the danger, the principles of 
France, — meaning by that the political principles, — we are told, 
that all danger of that sort is at an end ; that in this country, as 
everywhere else, the folly of the revolutionary principles is so 
thoroughly understood, that none can be found to support them. 
Jacobinism is, as it were, extinct : or, should it still exist, we shall 
have, as our best ally against it, Buonaparte himself 

Sir, I have already stated what my confidence is in that ally. 
I know that neither he personally, nor any other of the free 
governments that have subsisted in France, have ever suffered 
these doctrines of Jacobinism to be used against themselves. But 
I must again ask, on what grounds we suppose, that France has 
renounced the use of them, with respect to other countries ? We 
have heard less, indeed, of late, of her principles, because we 
have heard, and felt, more of her arms. For the same reason, 
we may possibly hear little of them in future. But do they there- 
fore cease to exist? During the whole course of the Revolution, 
France has sometimes employed one of these means, and some- 
times the other. Sometimes the arms have opened a way for the 
principles, at others the principles have prepared the object, as an 
easy conquest to the arms : — In the flight of this chain-shot, some- 
times one end has gone foremost, and sometimes the other, and 
at times they may have struck their object at once : but the two 
parts alike exist, and are inseparably linked together. 

Nothing, therefore, can, in my mind, be more idle than this 
hope of the extinction of Jacobinism, either as an instrument to 
be used by France, should her occasions require it, or as a prin- 
ciple ever to be eradicated out of any community, in which it has 
once taken root. However true it may be, that the example of 
France ought to serve as the strongest antidote to its poison, and 
that it does so, in fact, in the minds of many ; yet it is equally true, 
that, in another view, and to many other persons, it operates in a 
directly contrary way, — not as a warning, but as an incitement. 
What I am now speaking of, is, however, not the danger of the 
political principles of France, but the still surer and more dreadful 



68 PEACE OF AMIENS. 

danger, of its morals. What are we to think of a country, that 
having struck out of men's minds, as far as it has the power to 
do so, all sense of religion, and all belief of a future life, has 
struck out of its system of civil polity, the institution of marriage? 
That has formally, professedly, and by law, established the con- 
nexion of the sexes, upon the footing of an unrestrained concu- 
binage? that has turned the whole country into one universal 
brothel 1 That feaves to every man to take, and to get rid of, a 
wife, (the fact, I believe, continues to be so,) and a wife, in like 
manner, to get rid of her husband, upon less notice than you can, 
in this country, of a ready-furnished lodging? 

What are we to think of uniting with a country, in which such 
things have happened, and where for generations the effects must 
continue, w^hatever formal and superficial changes prudence and 
policy may find it expedient to introduce in the things themselves? 

Do we suppose it possible, that, with an intercourse subsisting, 
such, as we know, will take place between Great Britain and 
France, the morals of this country should continue what they 
have been ? Do we suppose that when this Syrus in Tiberim de- 
Jiuxit Orontes, when that ' revolutionary stream,' the Seine, charg- 
ed with all the colhvies of Paris, — with all the filth and blood of 
that polluted chy, — shall have turned its current into the Thames, 
that the waters of our fair 'domestic flood' can remain pure and 
wholesome, as before ? Do we suppose these things can happen ? 
Or is it, that we are indifferent, whether they happen or not ; and 
that the morals of the country are no longer any object of our 
concern ? 

Sir, I fear, the very scenes that we shall witness, even in the 
course of the present winter, will give us a sufficient foretaste of 
what we may expect hereafter; and show, how little the morals 
of the country will be protected by those who should be their 
natural guardians, the higher and fashionable orders of society. 
In what crowds shall we see flocking to the hotel of a Regicide 
Ambassador, however deep in all the guilt and horror of his time, 
those whose doors have hitherto been shut inflexibly against every 
Frenchman ; whom no feeling for honourable distress, no respect 
for suffering loyalty, no sympathy with fallen grandeur, no desire 
of useful example, — and in some instances I fear, no gratitude for 
former services or civilities, have ever been able to excite to show 
the least mark of kindness or attention to an emigrant of any 
description ; though in that class are to be numbered men, who 
in every circumstance of birth, of fortune, of rank, of talents, 
of acquirements of every species, are fully their equals; and 
whom the virtue that has made them emigrants, has, so far forth, 
rendered their superiors ! A suite of richly furnished apartments, 



PEACE OF AMIENS. 69 

and a ball and supper, is a trial, I fear, too hard for the virtue of 
London. 

It is to this side, that I look with greatest apprehension. The 
plague with which we are threatened, will not begin, like that of 
Homer, with inferior animals, among dogs and mules, but in the 
fairest and choicest part of the creation ; with those, whose fine- 
ness of texture makes them weak ; whose susceptibility most 
exposes them to contagion ; whose natures being most excellent, 
are, for that very reason, capable of becoming most depraved ; 
who, being formed to promote the happiness of the world, may, 
when "strained from that fair use," prove its bane and destruction ; 
retaining, as they will still do, much of that empire which nature 
intended for them, over the minds and faculties of the other half 
of the species. " The woman tempted me, and I did eat," will 
be to be said, I fear, of this second fall of man, as it was of the 
first. Sir, we heard much, last year, of the necessity of new 
laws to check the growing progress of vice and immorality. I 
suppose we hardly mean to persist in any such projects. It will 
be too childish to be busying ourselves in stopping every little 
crevice and aperture, through which vice may ooze in, when we 
are going to open at once the flood-gates, and admit the whole 
tide of French practices and principles, till the morals of the two 
countries shall have settled at their common level. 

I must beg here, not to be told, that of this kind of argument 
the only result is, that we should never make Peace with France 
at all, until the monarchy should be restored. The argument im- 
plies no such thing. That no kind of Peace with France will be 
safe, till then, I am not in the least disposed to deny : but the 
nature of human affairs does not admit of our getting always 
what we may think most admirable. We must take up often with 
what is far short of our ideas, either of advantage or safety. The 
question at present is, whether in either of those views, we ought 
to take up with the present Peace : and among the evils incident 
to it, and immediately resulting from it, I state one, which, in con- 
junction with others, is to be weighed against its advantages ; 
namely, the havoc likely to be made by it in our principles and 
morals. If any one should be of opinion, that this consideration 
is of so much weight, that War, almost upon any terms, is prefer- 
able to Peace with a state, founded upon a declared Atheism, and 
filled with all the abominations and pollutions certain to result 
from such an origin, it is not my business to dispute with him : 
but that is not the way in which the argument is applied here ; 
nor is it indeed applied in any way, otherwise than as a consider- 
ation, making part of the case, and to which every body is to 
allow what weight he shall think proper. The misfortune of the 
country has been, that it has never seen, and felt, fully, the extent 



70 PEACE OF AMIENS. 

of its danger. The country, — speaking of it in general, and not 
with a view to particular places, or classes of people, upon whom 
the pressure of the War has borne with peculiar severity, — has 
been so rich, so prosperous, so happy ; men have enjoyed here in 
so superior a degree, and with such perfect freedom from molest- 
ation, all the blessings and comforts of lile, that they have never 
been able to persuade themselves, that any real harm could befall 
them. Even those, who have clamoured most loudly about the 
dangers of the country, and have given, at times, the most exag- 
gerated representations of them, have really, and when their 
opinions come to be examined, never described this danger as any 
thing truly alarming. For their danger has always been a pro- 
visional and hypothetical danger, such as we should be hable to, 
if we did not conform to such and such conditions : but as these 
conditions were always in our power, and are now, as we see, 
actually resorted to, our real and absolute danger was, in fact, 
none at all. " You will be ruined, if you continue the War ; but, 
make Peace, and you are safe :" and unquestionably, as there can 
hardly have been a period, when a Peace, such as the present, 
was not in our power, — if such a Peace can give us safety, there 
never was a period, when we could properly be said to have been 
in danger. We had a port always under our lee ; so that if it 
came to overblow, or the ship laboured too much, we had nothing 
to do, but to put up our helm, and run at once into a place of safe- 
ty. But my ideas of the danger have always been of a far dif- 
ferent sort. ' To me it has ever seemed, that the danger was not 
conditional but absolute : that it was a question, whether we could 
be saved upon any other terms ; whether we could weather this 
shoal upon either tack. The port appeared to me to be an ene- 
my's port ; where, though we might escape the dangers of the 
sea, we should fall into the hands of the savages, who would nev- 
er suffer us to see again our native land, but keep us in a state of 
thraldom, far more to be dreaded than the utmost fury of the 
waves. 

I have never pretended to say, that there were not dangers in 
War, as unquestionably there are great evils ; I have said only 
that there were evils and dangers, not less real and certain, in 
Peace, particularly in a Peace, made on such terms as the present. 
For terms of Peace, in spite of what we hear talked, have some- 
thing to do with rendering our situation more or less secure, even 
in those respects, in which they are supposed to operate least. In 
general, though terms, however advantageous, would not secure 
us against the mischiefs of French fraternity, and the infusions of 
French principles and morals, yet they would make a little differ- 
ence, I apprehend, as to the effect which Peace would produce 
in the feelings of Europe ; as to the air of success and triumph 



PEACE OF AMIENS. 71 

which it would give to the enemy, and of defeat and humiliation, 
which it would impress upon us ; as to the consequences resulting 
from thence, even with respect to the propagation of French 
principles, but certainly as to the confirmation of French power ; 
and, above all, as to the situation in which we should stand, should 
France choose to force us again into a War. The port of Malta, 
strong as it is, would not, literally, serve as a bulwark to stop the 
incursions of Jacobinism : figuratively, it would not be without 
its effect in that way : yet there would be some difference, I con- 
ceive, at the beginning of a War, whether we were in possession 
of Malta or not; and in the meanwhile, the knowledge of that 
difference, in the minds of the enemy, and of ourselves, would be 
quickly felt, in any discussions which might take place between 
us, in time of Peace. 

The dangers of Peace, therefore, are augmented a hundred-fold 
by terms at once so degrading and injurious, as those to which 
we have submitted : on any terms on which it could have been 
concluded, it would have had its dangers, and dreadful ones too; 
France remaining a revolutionary government, and being, as it 
is, in possession of Europe. Whether the evil must not ultimate- 
ly have been submitted to; whether the hopes of change, either 
from coalitions without, or commotions within, might not have 
become so small, and the evils of War, however mitigated, so 
great, that we must have made up our minds, after taking the best 
securities against those dangers that we could, finally to have 
acquiesced in them, is a separate question, which I will not now 
discuss. But the time, in my opinion, was not come when such 
unqualified acquiescence on our part was requisite ; when we 
were to cease to enquire what those securities were ; or when we 
ought to have taken up with such securities, if securities they can 
be called, as are offered by the present treaty. The great misfor- 
tune has been, that this question of Peace has never yet been fully 
and fairly before the country. We have been taken up with the 
War ; that was the side of the alternative next to us ; — and have 
never yet, till it was too late, had our attention fairly directed, or, 
I must say, fairly summoned, to the dreadful picture on the other 
side. If we had, we should never have heard, except among the 
ignorant and disaffected, of joy and exultation through the land, 
at a Peace such as the present. 

Here, Sir, I have nearly closed this subject. One only topic 
remains, a most important one indeed, but which I should have 
been induced, perhaps, on the present occasion, to pass over in 
silence, if in one part of it I did not feel myself called upon, by 
something of a more than ordinary duty. 

When a great military Monarch of our time Was at the lowest 
ebb of his fortunes, and had sustained a defeat, that seemed to 



72 PEACE OF AMIENS. 

extinguish all his remaining hopes, the terms of his letter, written 
from the field of battle, were — " We have lost every thing, but 
our honour." Would to God, that the same consolation, in cir- 
cumstances liable to become in time not less disastrous, remained 
to Great Britian ! I should feel a far less painful load of depres- 
sion upon my mind, than weighs upon it at this moment. But is 
our honour saved in this transaction 1 Is it in a better plight than 
those two other objects of our consideration, which I have before 
touched upon, our dignity and our security? I fear not. I fear 
that we have contrived to combine in this proceeding, all that is 
at once ruinous and disgraceful ; all that is calculated to undo us, 
in reputation as well as in fortune, and to deprive us of those 
resources, which high fame and unsullied character may create, 
" even under the ribs of death," when all ordinary means of relief 
and safety seem to be at an end. I am speaking here, not of the 
general discredit that attaches to this precipitate retreat and flight 
out of the cause of Europe, and of all mankind ; but of the situ- 
ation in which we stand with respect to those allies, to whom 
we were bound by distinct and specific engagements. I must 
be very slow to admit that construction, which considers as a 
breach of treaty any thing done by a contracting power, under 
a clear bond fide necessity, such as the other party itself does not 
pretend to dispute. If an absolute conquest of one of the parties 
to an alliance does not absolve the other from the obligation which 
it has contracted, so neither can a timely submission, made in 
order to avert such conquest, when the remaining party itself 
shall not be able to describe that submission as injurious either to 
her own interest, or to that of the common cause. If we were 
not in a state to say to Sardinia, that it was better for us that she 
should continue her resistance, rather than accept the terms offer- 
ed her ; then, I say, we are not in a state to consider her submis- 
sion as a forfeiture of the claims which she had upon us. We 
have left Sardinia, however, without an attempt to relieve her, 
without even a helping hand stretched out to support or to cheer 
her, under that ruin which she has brought upon herself, with no 
fault on her part, while adhering faithfully to her treaty with us. 
I must call that adherence faithful, which has continued as long 
as we ourselves could say, that it was of any use. — The case of 
Sardinia is, with no great variation, the case of Holland also. 
Both powers were our allies ; both are ruined, while adhering to 
that alliance ; both are left to their fate. But Sardinia and Hol- 
land are two only of our allies; and placed in circumstances of 
peculiar difficulty. There were others, it may be said, more ca- 
pable of being assisted, for whose security and protection every 
thing has been done, that the most scrupulous fidelity could re- 
quire. Naples, Portugal, and Turkey, will attest, to the end of 



PEACE OF AMIENS. 73 

time, the good faith of Great Britain ; and show to the world that 
she is not a power, wiio ever seeks her own safety by abandoning 
those with whom shehasembarked in a common cause. Sir, if I were 
forced to make a comparison between the instances, in which we 
plainly and openly desert our allies, and those in which we aflect 
to protect them, I should say, without hesitation, that those of the 
former class were the least disgraceful of the two ; because our 
protection is in fact nothing else but a desertion, with the addition 
of that ridicule which attaches upon things, that endeavour to pass 
for the reverse of what they really are. 

The protection which we yield to these unfortunate powers, is 
much of the same sort with that which Don Quixote gives to the 
poor boy, whom he releases from the tree ; when he retires with 
perfect complacency and satisfaction, assuring him, that he has 
nothing more to fear, as his master is bound by the most solemn 
promise not to attempt to exercise against him any further severity. 
We know, Sir, what respect was paid to this promise, as soon as 
the knight was out of sight ; and it is not difficult to foretell, what 
respect will be paid by Buonaparte, (without waiting even, I am 
afraid, till my Honourable Friends shall be out of sight,) to this 
solemn stipulation and pledge, by which we have provided so 
effectually for the security of the dominions of our good and 
faithful allies. 

The ridicule of this provision, which in any case would be suf- 
ficiently strong, has, undoubtedly, in the case of Turkey, some- 
thing of a higher and livelier relish ; Turkey being the power, in 
whose instance, and with respect to precisely the same party, the 
total insufficiency and nullity of such engagements has been so 
strikingly manifested, and is still kept so fresh in our memories, by 
the very operations with which the War has closed. 

So much as to our conduct towards those powers, with whom 
we stood in the relation of allies, according to the usual diplomatic 
forms; and whom the common policy of Europe had been accus- 
tomed to consider under these and similar relations. 

But there was another body of allies, not ranked indeed among 
the European powers, nor possessing much, perhaps, of a corporate 
capacity, but who, as men, acting either separately or together, 
were equally capable of becoming objects of good faith, and in 
fact had so become, though by means ditierent, in point of form, 
from those which engaged the faith of the country, in any of the 
instances above alluded to : — These persons were, the Royalists 
of France, wheresoever dispersed, but particularly that vast body 
of them which so long maintained a contest against the Republic, 
in the West ; where they formed the mass of the inhabitants of 
four or five great provinces, far exceeding, both in extent and 
population, the kingdom of Ireland. I mention these particulars 
7 K 



74 PEACE OF AMIENS. 

of their force and numbers, not because they are material to the 
present purpose, but because they serve to obviate that delusion 
of the understanding, by which things, small in bulk, and filling 
but little space in the imagination, are apt to lose their hold on 
our interests and affections. The mention of them may, moreover, 
not be unnecessary in this House, where, I fear, from various 
causes, all that relates to the Royalists is a perfect terra incognita, 
as little known or considered, as the affairs of a people in another 
hemisphere. The Royalists were, however, a great, numerous, 
and substantive body, capable of maintaining against the Republic 
a War, confessed by the Republicans themselves to have been 
more formidable and bloody, than most of those in which they 
had been engaged ; and of terminating that War by a Peace, 
which showed sufficiently what the War had been, and what the 
fears were, which the Republic entertained, of its possible final 
success. But let the numbers and powers of the Royalists have 
been what they might ; had their affairs been still less considered ; 
had they been more disowned, discountenanced, and betrayed, 
than in many instances they were ; had more such garrisons as 
those of Mentz and Valenciennes been suffered to be sent against 
them ; had they been less the real, primary defenders and repre- 
sentatives of that cause, which the Allies professed to support ; 
still there were our formal Proclamations, issued at various 
periods, not expressly engaging indeed to make stipulations for 
them in case of a Peace, but calling generally for their exertions, 
and promising succour and protection, to all those who should 
declare themselves in favour of the ancient order of things, and 
of their hereditary and rightful Monarch. What I am to ask, is, 
have we acted up to the spirit, or even the letter, of our own pro- 
clamations ? or to the spirit of that relation, in which the nature 
of the War itself, independent of any proclamations, placed us 
with respect to these people ? I am compelled to say, (I say it 
with great reluctance, as well as with great grief,) I fear we have 
done no such thing. I fear, that a stain is left upon our annals, 
far deeper than that, which, in former times, many were so 
laudably anxious to wash away, in respect to the conduct of this 
country towards the Catalans. The Catalans were not invited by 
any declarations more specific than those which we have made 
to the Royalists : their claim upon us was in some respects more 
doubtful. Yet, so far were they from being passed over in silence 
in the terms of the Peace ; so far were they from being abandoned 
to their fate, left to the merciless persecution of their enemies, 
that a stipulation was made for a full and complete amnesty for 
them ; and, far more than that, a provision, that they should be 
put upon the same footing, and enjoy the same privileges, with 
that province w^hich was in fact the most favoured under the 



PEACE OF AMIENS. 75 

Spanish monarchy. Yet, because more was not done ; because 
they were not placed in the situation of enjoying all that they 
asked ; — much of it, perhaps, having more of an imaginary than 
a real value ; — because in a part where their claim was more dis- 
putable, perfect and entire satisfaction was not given them ; did 
a large and respectable majority of this House think it necessary 
to institute a solemn inquiry, — the intended foundation of proceed- 
ings still more solemn, — in order to purge themselves and the 
country, as far as depended on them, from the shame of what 
they deemed a breach of the national faith. 

By what purgations, by what ablutions, shall we cleanse our- 
selves from this far deeper and fouler blot, of having left to perish 
under the knives of their enemies, without even an effort to save 
them, every man of those whom we have affected, as it must now 
appear, to call our friends and allies ; with whom we were bound, 
by interests of far higher import than those of a disputed succes- 
sion ; who were the assertors with us of the common morality of 
the world ; who were the true depositaries of that sacred cause, 
the very priests of that holy faith, with whom we had joined, as 
it were, in a solemn sacrament; and who, on all these grounds, 
but chiefly for the sin of having held communion with us, are now, 
as might be expected, doomed by the fanatics of rebeUion, to be 
the objects of never-ceasing hostility, to be pursued as offenders, 
whose crimes can only be expiated by their destruction 1 

I agree with what has been said by my Honourable Friend [the 
Chancellor of the Exchequer], that Peace once made, all commu- 
nication with this, or any other, class of people, hostile to the 
French Government, must completely cease. Whatever the 
Government is, or whatever its conduct may be with respect to 
us, if we think fit to make Peace with it, that Peace must be reli- 
giously kept. I am not for curing one breach of faith, by another. 
But was nothing to be done, in the final settlement of that Peace; 
and still more during the time which has elapsed since the first 
commencement of the negotiations? I wish a satisfactory answer 
could be given to those inquiries. I wish it were true, that, for 
months past, numbers had not been perishing throughout the 
Royalist provinces, the victims of their loyalty and honour; — 
(men hunted down, like wild beasts, for acts, which that Govern- 
ment may call crimes, but which we, I hope, have not yet learned 
so to characterize ;) — simply for want of such means, as might 
have enabled them to effect their escape, and, after the loss of 
every thing but what their own minds must bestow, to have sought 
an asylum in some foreign land. 

Sir, I would gladly draw a veil over these facts. But our shame 
is too flagrant and glaring, to be concealed : the cry of this blood 
is too loud to be stifled. I beg to wash my hands of it The share 



76 PEACE OF AMIENS. 

which I have happened to have in the affairs of this illustrious 
and unfortunate people ; the interest which I have always taken 
in their cause ; make me doubly anxious to vindicate myself from 
any participation in the guilt of having thus abandoned them. I 
wish I could vindicate, in like manner, the Government and the 
Country. Among all our shames, it is that of the most fatal nature, 
and of which, possibly, we shall longest rue the effects. 

Sir, I have done. I have stated, as I thought it my duty to do, 
what my apprehensions are, as to the nature and consequences 
of the present Peace. If the evils which I impute to it, are not 
to be found there, if the dangers which I apprehend should not 
come to pass, no one will more rejoice in my error than myself: 
those who differ from me will have nothing to complain of; I shall 
have alarmed myself; I shall not, probably, even have to reproach 
myself with having succeeded in alarming them. But if any 
there should be (there are none I am sure in this House), who 
should say, that my fears are not imaginary; that they think of 
this Peace as I do ; that they apprehend it icill ruin the country ; 
but that they hope the country may last long enough to serve 
their turn ; that being traders, they think the trade of the country 
may be lost; that, being manufacturers, they believe its manufac- 
tures may decline ; but that for this they care but little, provided 
the Peace in the mean time shall prove advantageous to them ; — 
to all such, if any there can be, there could be but one answer, — 
that they are a disgrace to their country and to their species ; 
and that he must be as bad as they, who, upon such terms, could 
seek to merit their good opinion, or could solicit their favour. I 
trust, however, that no such men are to be found ; but that all 
who rejoice in the present Peace, do it under a persuasion, that 
the good which they may hope to derive from it, individually, is 
not to be obtained by the sacrifice of the final welfare and safety 
of their country. 

The arguments contained in the above Speech were supported by Dr. Lau- 
rence, Mr. William Elliot, and Mr. C. Wynne ; and replied to by Mr. Wilber- 
force, Mr. Yorke (Secretary at War), and Mr. Addington (Chancellor of the 
Exchequer) ; — after which the address was carried without a division. 



( 77 ) 



ARMY OF RESERVE. 

JUNE 20th, 1803. 

The following speech was delivered by Mr. Windham, in the House of 
Commons, in disapprobation of the plan proposed by the Ministers for raising 
50,000 men in England, Scotland, and Ireland, by way of ballot or mili- 
tary conscription. The plan described by the Secretary at War was as fol- 
lows : a body of 50,000 men, to be called the Army of Reserve, was to be 
immediately raised by ballot, according to the following quotas : — the counties 
of England and Wales 31,000, London and the Tower Hamlets 3000, Scot- 
land 6000, and Ireland 10,000. The conscripts were allowed to find substitutes, 
and the term of service was four years, with an extension as to place, to any 
part of Great Britain and Ireland, and the Islands of Jersey and Guernsey. The 
officers, to be commissioned by the King, were to come from the half-pay list 
of the Army, from the Marines, from the East India Company's Service, from 
persons who had served as officers in Volunteer Yeomanry Corps in Ireland 
during the late Rebellion, and, if necessary, from the Recruiting Staff Such 
were the outlines of the plan to which Mr. Windham made the objections that 
will be found in the following Speech : 

Mr. Speaker — Sir, 
The Honourable Gentleman has introduced this measure in a 
manner perfectly suitable to the solemnity of the occasion, and 
to the impression which such an occasion was likely to produce 
on his mind. — I wish the measure itself had been equally suitable 
to the manner of its introduction, or to the circumstances out of 
which it has arisen. But, alas ! it has fallen miserably short both 
of the occasion and of the expectation which I had allowed my- 
self to form of it. Instead of helping us out of our difficulties, 
it serves only to confirm a most material part of them, and for 
the rest, to give us but very imperfect and inadequate assistance. 
This grand measure, of which so much expectation has been 
raised, turns out, at last, to be nothing more than a mere addition 
to the Militia, with all the evils incident to that system, perverted 
and misapplied as it has been for a period of several years past. 
In addition to 70,000 men raised or raising according to that system, 
upon the population of Great Britain, and of 18,000 so raised in 
Ireland, we are now to have 10,000 more for Ireland, and 40,000 
for Great Britain, making in the whole the number of 138,000, 
of which 18,000 (the original militia in Ireland) are to be raised 
by bounty in the first instance, and the rest to be raised by ballot, 
with the privilege of exemption from personal service, on the con- 
7* 



78 ARMY OF RESERVE. 

dition of finding a substitute. Does any man dream after this, 
that it is possible for Great Britain to have an army? The hope 
is utterly childish. The recruiting of the British army has, as 
every body knows, long stood still. An army not recruited must, 
by degrees, waste away. In spite of all the hopes, which some 
may indulge of transferring men hereafter by new bounties from 
the force thus raised to the regular army — a most uncertain and 
ineligible method — the army must unavoidably stand still for the 
present, and one may venture to say, under the influence of such 
a system, is not likely to be again put in motion. 

This, therefore, is my great, leading, and fundamental objection 
to this measure, that it destroys all hope, now and hereafter, of a 
force truly regular — that it completely cuts up the army. This it 
effects, not so much by the raising of so many men — a measure 
which at the present moment I am not prepared to object to ; 
but, by admitting the principle of substitution. That a compul- 
sory levy cannot be made without a power of commutation of 
some sort or other. I am ready to allow. — The grievance would 
be utterly intolerable. But I hoped, as the JHon. Gentleman 
knows, that another mode might have been adopted, namely, that 
of commutation of service for a fixed fine ; which fine should be 
paid, not into the hands of the corps for the purpose of being laid 
out in providing a substitute, with all the effect which such an 
additional demand must have in raising the rate of the bounty, 
but should be paid to Government, to be employed by them in any 
way they should think proper, or, if you choose to give it an ap- 
propriation, for the providing a recruit for the arfny. The great 
point is to abolish the present competition, under which it is 
impossible that the army can stand; and with this view, my 
meaning would certainly be, not merely to abolish this competi- 
tion so far as it would arise from the body now proposed to be 
raised, but universally for the w^hole of the militia, old or new. 
There should be no recruiting but for the army. The militia, and 
every force raised by ballot, should consist of nothing but the 
balloted men, so far as they would go. To insure the service of 
them, as far as I could, or as far as they were of a description 
to make their service desirable, I would impose a fine, greater 
or less, as might ultimately be thought right ; but I would sooner 
leave the service incomplete, than, in order to complete it, intro- 
duce that fatal principle of substitution ; wrong in a constitutional 
view, if that were now worth attending to, but far more wrong 
and perfectly fatal from the effect which it must have of destroy- 
ing all possibility of recruiting the army. 

That it is the militia system, extended as it has been, of late 
years, and changed as it is in its nature and character, that has 
eat out the army, nobody can reasonably doubt. What is there 



ARMY OF RESERVE. fQ 

in the condition of this country that should make it incapable of 
having an army, in some degree, at least, proportionate to its 
population '( or prevent its having now what it has had in all 
former times ? That the militia system, as carried on of late, 
would and must prevent this, is perfectly obvious. I want to 
know what ground there is for concluding that there are any 
other causes, if these were removed, which must equally produce 
the same effect 1 When we say, therefore, that we can get no 
men for the army, the answer is that we have never fairly tried. 
Let the experiment be bond fide made. Abolish the competition : 
and, in order to meet the effects of the change thus produced, 
begin now, what the Honourable Gentleman says must be begun 
some time or other, and put your army on that new footing, 
which, without being necessary for its improvement, for I know 
not what improvement it wants, may be necessary to maintain 
its numbers. The first of these measures, as it has always ap- 
peared to me, is to change the condition of service from life to 
term of years ; — a measure on which, if I cannot say, that mili- 
tary men are unanimous, I may safely say, that they are nearly 
so, and to which I (certainly have never heard any objection that 
could at all be set in competition with the advantages to be expect- 
ed from it. Its advantages, indeed, if they really exist, are of 
that sort which must take place of every other consideration. 
The first merit of a book, says a great critic, is to make itself 
read. The first merit in the constitution of an army is to provide 
that it should continue an army. — Let the army, therefore, at this 
moment, and not at any time of future peace, and with a view to 
wars that may then be future, be put upon that footing, in which, 
in conjunction with other changes, it niay hope to be recruited 
as it has hitherto been, and may release us from this dreadful and 
unheard-of state of being engaged in a war, without an offensive 
and disposable force. With all the disadvantages which the 
very memory of the bounties heretofore given, will not fail to 
produce, even when the bounties themselves, to this inordinate 
amount, shall be given no longer, I should not despair of seeing 
our army gradually restored, and the service again go on, as it 
did in all former times. 

It is in conformity to these views that my judgment must be 
regulated upon the present measure. As a levy ojf so many men 
on the principle of ballot I may submit to it. Government declar- 
ing it to be necessary, because the urgency of the case seems to 
leave me no option, and hardly time to consider the question. But 
as a ballot including the further principle of substitution, I must 
formally protest against it, because it tends to produce effects, 
which no consideration of present advantage could, perhaps, jus- 
tify the incurring ; but which, Hkewise, in my opinion, render the 



80 ARMY OF RESERVE. 

measure perfectly ill-calculated to meet even the present danger. 
I may accept the ballot for the sake of the immediate force which 
it will produce, however disadvantageous I may think it in various 
other respects ; but I must, at least, endeavour to disarm it of its 
chief mischief, by recommending that the terms of exemption 
from service should be a fixed fine, as I would, for the same 
reason, extend that principle to every other part of the militia. 

But here I must make my formal complaint of the Government, 
which, by its neglect, its delays, its total want of all foresight and 
precaution, has brought us to a state in which no measure that is 
presented to us, can be fairly judged of. We are in straits in, 
which we have no room to turn ourselves. The danger presses 
upon us so immediately, that we have not time to consider what 
is best: we must take up with what is first presented to us. Why- 
has this measure been delayed to the present time 1 Why has it 
only now been discovered that a force, of the sort here proposed, 
would finally become necessary, and why, if such necessity was 
foreseen, has the time and manner of raising it only now been sub- 
mitted to this House 1 Above all, why was the country reduced 
to its present defenceless state, immediately upon the signature of 
the Treaty of Amiens, in spite of what must have been obvious, 
one should have thought, to every common observer of what the 
Ministers now tell us, they themselves saw; namely, that the 
peace which they had made was no peace ; but was open, at 
every moment, to such a rupture as that which has now happened. 
In this state did they think it right to dismantle our fleets, to re- 
duce considerably our army, to discharge troops, which, in six 
weeks after, they wished to have back, or which, if they did not 
wish to have back, as the Honourable Gentleman's gestures would 
seem to indicate, it is only a new proof how little they understood 
the real nature of their situation. All this was done for the mise- 
rable purpose of deluding the people with the false idea of the 
blessings, as they were called, of Peace, and of the money they 
were to save by thus parting with all the means of safety. 

Leaving these reflections for the present, though I trust never 
forgetting them, let us turn to the consideration of the measure 
immediately before us: and this, perhaps, we cannot properly 
judge of without taking into our view the larger principles on 
which measures of this sort must depend. We are in a new and 
unprecedented state of things, in which new dangers exist, and 
new modes of resistance must be resorted to if w'e would hope 
not to be overcome by them. If we proceed in the old beaten 
course, if we think that what saved us heretofore must be suffi- 
cient to save us now, our destruction is inevitable. 

The great desideratum which we have to make good, the great 
problem which we have to propose to ourselves, is to find the means 



ARMY OF RESERVE. 81 

by which that natural force, which, in this as in all similar instan- 
ces, is on the side of those attacked, may be so applied as to 
overcome the superior advantages of another kind which may be 
found on the side of the enemy. — If the enemy could bring with 
him an army not more considerable than that which we should 
have to oppose him, great as the object is at stake, much as I 
should advise that even in that case no precautions should be 
omitted, yet such is my confidence in the excellence of British 
troops, such are the proofs which they have given of their capaci- 
ty to contend with and to overcome upon any thing like equal 
terms the troops with whom they would have to deal, that even 
without those subsidiary aids, which yet it would not be right to 
neglect, I should feel perfectly at ease about the event. 

But we are to calculate upon the supposition, a supposition far 
from inconsistent with the probability of the fact, that the enemy 
may be able to land an army in this country greater either than 
the whole of our regular force, or at least than that part of it 
which could immediately be collected to oppose them. The ques- 
tion then is, how shall this deficiency be supplied ? And here we 
have, as the foundation of our hopes, this leading fact, that in the 
case of every invaded country, but certainly of every invaded 
island, the physical force is always on the side of the invaded. 
No country, probably, was ever invaded by a force superior in 
number to the portion of the inhabitants of that country capable 
of bearing arms. It certainly will not happen to us to be so. 
Were the enemy to find the means of putting on shore in differ- 
ent parts, a body of a hundred thousand men, a supposition not 
likely, but by no means to be rejected as impossible, the popula- 
tion of this very town would yield a force that ought to make no 
difficulty of contending with them. — There is no question there- 
fore of the sufficiency of physical force: but, though we are 
abundantly satisfied of this truth, to a degree indeed that leads us 
often into a childish and boastful confidence, let us not overlook 
another truth, not less important and certain, that in the conduct 
of human affairs it is rarely the physical force which determines 
the event. If it did so, no country, as appears by what is just 
said, would ever fall a prey to invasion. Hanover would at this 
time be an independent country. It was not for want of inhab- 
itants capable of bearing arms that that country yielded up. with- 
out a blow, its laws, its government, its liberties, its property, to 
the handful of men, comparatively speaking, who marched against 
it under General Mortier. It is thus, in other instances. A battle 
is fought, a fortress is taken, and the country submits. If we have 
a mind to pursue this truth, in cases of a different sort, — by what 
means do all the governments of the earth subsist? By possess- 
ing the physical force ? Quite the contrary : the physical force 



82 ARMY OF RESERVE. 

is always on the side of the governed. Governments, with all 
their establishments of senates and magistrates, and ministers and 
officers, and even with the armies which they may have at their 
disposal, are nothing, in point of numbers, compared with the in- 
habitants at large : yet thus weak in physical force, these govern- 
ments are able, fortunately for the peace and happiness of the 
world, to hold in subjection those inhabitants, and that not orjly 
in countries where the general sentiment may be supposed to go 
"with the government, and the submission of consequence to be 
voluntary, as in these happy realms, but in countries such as that 
of France at this moment, where of 50 or 60 millions or more, 
whom Bonaparte may have at his disposal, there are not probably 
as many thousands who really wish him well or submit to his 
government on any other principle than that of fear. This truth, 
therefore, the jacobinism of modern times chose as the foundation 
of all its operations, the scope and object of which was to apply 
the physical force of every country to the subversion of its gov- 
ernment. 

We are in circumstances, when we must prosecute a similar 
enquiry for a very opposite purpose ; and must endeavour to find 
out how the physical means of a great country may be employed, 
not for the overthrow of its government, but to save itself from 
the incursion of foreign armies. And we may venture to say, 
that if these means can be gradually discovered and brought into 
use, the discovery will form an epoch in human affairs hardly less 
important, and certainly much more satisfactory, than that which 
was produced by the discovery above alluded to, of the art of 
overthrowing governments. 

We are now in the state of being compelled to try what can 
be done towards effecting this great desideratum ; in which if we 
cannot succeed better than has been done in most of the countries 
of Europe, in Hanover, in Holland, in Flanders, in Italy, in Swit- 
zerland, the fate of this country will hang on nothing but chance. 
We must form our judgment of the present measure by its tenden- 
cy to carry those endeavours into effect. — The general course of 
the proceeding, in the minds of his Majesty's Ministers, seems to 
have been this — A regular force, a force consisting of troops of 
the line, is confessedly the best ; but circumstances, and above all 
the urgency of the case, will not allow of this being obtained in 
time. Not being able therefore to obtain the best, you must do 
what the law directs in the case of evidence, you must get the 
next best. This next best is a Militia, or a force raised upon the 
principles now proposed. There will therefore be three species 
of force in the country, 1st, the Regulars, 2dly, the Militia, and 
3dly, the Volunteers, and other corps of that description; and 
these being to be taken, in point of preference, in the order in 



ARMY OF RESERVE. 83 

which they are here enumerated, the Regulars being to be con- 
sidered as better than the MiHtia, and the Militia than the Volun- 
teers — the masculine more worthy than the feminine, and the 
feminine more worthy than the neuter ; you must do this, as all 
persons must do in similar circumstances, you must take the sec- 
ond when you cannot get the first, and the third when you cannot 
get either of the other two. 

All this, so stated, is perfectly true. I am willing to admit, not 
only that the Regulars are better than the Militia, which no intel- 
ligent Militia officer will feel at all disposed to deny ; but that 
Militia, in equal numbers, are better than any other species of 
force of an establishment still less regular. — But in the application 
of this to the support of the present measure there is a complete 
fallacy ; for it is not what the option would be between these de- 
scriptions of force supposing them all before us, or, putting one 
out of the question, what would be the choice between the re- 
maining two; but whether you will begin by raising that which 
you do not consider as best, and thereby produce a state of things 
in which to obtain the best shall be no longer practicable. From 
the language held about the comparative value of these objects 
you would suppose a course to be taken the very reverse of that 
actually pursued ; you would suppose the higher bounty given for 
the best force : and that it was only when hopes on that side were 
nearly exhausted, that you laid out your endeavours on a force 
confessedly less eligible. But just the contrary. You give yourfifteen 
guineas for service in the Militia; and ten or five for service in the 
army : and then you exclaim, that you are obliged to have recourse 
to Militia, because you can get no army. — This statement, therefore, 
when applied thus generally, can by no means be admitted. All that 
can be said is, that in the mode proposed, and by a continuance of 
the Militia system, you will, for a time, raise your men faster, and 
will within that same time produce a greater force. The question will 
then be, how far the superior quantity will compensate the differ- 
ence of quality ; and how far present advantages must be made 
to outweigh, in the actual circumstances, all consideration of ob- 
jects, even of the highest consequence, in future. 

In this view it may be necessary to say a word or two, on the 
difference that must, for ever, subsist between troops of the line, 
and every other species of troops serving upon the footing of a 
Militia. It is as little pleasant to me, as to any other gentleman, 
to be making comparisons, that can rarely be satisfactory to both 
parties, and to be remarking perpetually to officers of the Militia, 
that, after all their zeal, all their intelligence, all their honourable 
sacrifices, all their meritorious exertions, and with all the well- 
founded vanity which they may feel at the success of their endea- 
vours ; a success far exceeding all that the founders of the Militia 



g4 ARMY OF RESERVE, 

ever ventured to promise themselves ; the service in which they 
have thus laboured, cannot, by the very nature of it, ever attain 
to all the qualities which belong to regular troops. It is no reproach 
to them that this should be so ; because it is no reproach to any 
one that he cannot alter the nature of things ; at the same time I 
do not say that the reflection may not be in some small degree 
painful: it maybe painful to those who have done so much, to 
think that it should not be possible for them to do every thing ; 
that they must find in the nature of the subject those limits which 
they do not find in their own zeal or talents. — The difierence 
between the two services, is founded on the eternal difierence 
that must subsist between troops, who always remain at home, 
and those who are placed from time to time in distant stations ; 
between troops who have seen service, and those who, generally 
speaking, have not ; between troops commanded by officers, who 
have never acted with them in difficulties and dangers, who have 
never shown, because they have had no opportunity of showing, 
their title to command by the valour which they have displayed, 
who can pretend to no experience, who can bring no authority 
from former reputation ; — and troops, whose officers possess in 
themselves all these sources of ascendency, and all these claims 
to respect. There is, moreover, a sort of soldier character, ari- 
sing from a thousand causes, and acquired insensibly in the course 
of regular service, which will easily be distinguished by discern- 
ing eyes, and will furnish in general a marked discrimination 
between the Militia soldier, and the soldier of the line. These 
circumstances must of course enter into account when we are 
regulating our choice between the two services, and founding our 
measures on the mixed consideration of numbers in each, com- 
pared with tlieir respective qualities. — However confident I may 
feel that our Militia force will prove a most valuable part, should 
the enemy come, of the national defence, however certain I am- 
that in the day of action Militia regiments wnll be found who will 
have distinguished themselves not less than the choicest troops we 
have, I can never say, generally, that a force of that description 
is to be put upon a level with that of the regular army. 

I have been surprised, therefore, to hear it urged, that while a 
certain number of men must be kept at home for the defence of 
the country, it was a matter of indifference whether our army to 
that amount was composed of Militia or Regulars. I thought I 
had heard upon other occasions high hopes expressed of the se- 
curity which the country must derive from the return of those 
veteran legions, who had so crowned themselves with glory, and 
established the military fame of the country, in Egypt and other 
places. But according to this idea, they could do no more for 
us than any other equal number of troops, who had never seen 



ARMY OF RESERVE. 85 

an enemy. But is even this the only difference between Regulai-g 
and Militia, between a disposable and an undisposable force ? 
Though the circumstances of the war may, at one time, require 
a force of a certain amount to be kept within the kingdom, the 
next moment may set a great part of it at liberty ; and is it of no 
consequence that its constitution should be such as to make it in- 
capable of avaiUng itself of that liberty? Nay, if even that 
should be so, and that in point of fact the power of sending it 
abroad was one of which no use could be made, is it indifferent 
whether the enemy is apprized or not of that truth, and whether 
he is enabled to calculate his plans upon the previous knowledge, 
that the force existing in the country can, in no case, be sent 
against him ? If the evils with which we have to struggle, if the 
dangers which threaten us, are ever to end, it must be by some 
change, from within or from without, which shall be made in 
that power which has sworn our destruction, and which, till she 
is destroyed herself, will never cease in her endeavours to accom- 
plish it. And what must be the counsels, and what the situation 
of this country, if we are voluntarily to place ourselves in a situ- 
ation, in which it shall be impossible for us to co-operate in produ- 
cing any such change, or in availing ourselves of it, if it should hap- 
pen by other means ? If such is our situation, or such are our ideas, 
there is no difficulty in predicting that we must ultimately perish. 
In every view, therefoi'e, either of what is to be looked to here- 
after, or is necessary in the present moment, I must condemn a 
measure, of which both the immediate effect, and final tendency, 
is to deprive the country of a regular army, that is to say, of the 
best means for home defence, and of the only means of effectual 
and finally successful war. — And here it may not be amiss to 
advert to another measure of less extent, but of the same general 
character, and which, as far as it goes, is a revival of that system 
unhappily adopted in the beginning of the last war, and from the 
effects of which the army has not yet recovered ; namely, that 
of raising men for rank. Notwithstanding all the modifications 
and temperaments introduced into it by the Honourable Gentle- 
man, the effects of it, as far as the measure extends, will be much 
the same as in the former instance. No prohibitions will ever 
restrain officers placed in those circumstances, from giving more 
than the regulated bounty. In fact, it is notorious thatthey do give 
more ; the effect of the measure therefore, in this respect, is only 
to add to the competition against the army already subsisting, and 
to raise the rate of bounty against the other recruiting parties ; 
against the ordinary recruiting, you may say, of the same regi- 
ment. So that it can hardly be considered as adding a man to 
the army. — On the other hand, if money is not to be employed in 
raising these men, money I mean bevond the rate of bounty 
8 



86 ARMY OF RESERVE. 

allowed by the regulation, then what are you to rely upon? — 
Upon a hope ten times more fatal in the accompHshment of it, in 
my opinion, than any effect likely to result from the increase of 
the rate of bounty; namely, that a certain number of British 
officers, forgetting that delicacy of sentiment, and nice sense of 
honour, which so peculiarly mark the character of officers in 
our service, and make them what they are, will become, what is 
called, able recruiters, that is to say, men versed and expert in 
the noble art of crimping, one of the most degrading employments, 
and most inconsistent with all upright and Hberal feehngs, that 
can well be conceived. 

Such is the state of the measures offered to us at last by His 
Majesty's government, in this most awful crisis of our affairs, 
with a view of averting the dreadful dangers with which we have 
to struggle. I have stated already the changes which I should 
wish to see introduced into these measures, and the course which 
I would pursue with respect to those parts of general defence of 
which we have here been treating. If a body of men must be 
raised by ballot, of which I do not care to give a decisive opinion, 
let the numbers be confined to the mere men balloted, and let 
the sums paid as penalties for exemption be laid out not for com- 
pleting these coi'ps, but for augmenting the recruiting fund for the 
service of the army. — Let the same be done for the militia univer- 
sally. If government have a mind to procure substitutes, in any 
instance, for the old militia, let it take the providing these substi- 
tutes into its own hands, so as to see that no increase be thence 
made to what it should fix for the rate of bounty. Let the con- 
dition of service in the army be changed so as to make the 
engagement for term of years instead of for life, with such in- 
creasing advantages held out, at the close of succeeding periods, 
(as well by certain privileges to be then enjoyed, as by bounties 
and increase of pension,) as might be most likely to ensure a con- 
tinuance of the service of the men once engaged. — To these 
changes should be added a total abolition of drafting, not silently 
introduced, and adopted merely in practice, but so declaimed 
beforehand, as that its benefits might be felt in the recruiting. In 
general, in this as in many other regulations that might be pro- 
posed, the maintaining, or rather the creating, an army would be 
my object, conceiving that even for purposes of mere defence, a 
small portion of truly regular troops, in conjunction with the 
undisciplined efforts of the country, may be set in balance against 
a very large proportion of troops imperfectly formed. 

Thus far I have been considering only, what may be called the 
embodied force of the country. But will this force, increase it, 
constitute it, how you will, be sufficient? And must not a new 
and larger fund be resorted to, namelv, that which will embrace 



ARMY OF RESERVE. 87 

all the strength, energy, zeal, talents, faculties mental and corpo- 
real, of the country f If we think that we can be protected by 
any of the ordinary means of war, by trusting our defence to 
men, dressed as soldiers, and hired or compelled to defend us, 
bating the chances, by sea or otherwise, that may interpose to 
defeat the enemy's projects in the first instance, we are little less 
than undone. This embodied force, be it good or bad, can go but 
a very little way. You cannot have it, if you wait to the last 
moment; to call it forth beforehand, to the necessary amount, 
would be an evil which the state of society in this country could 
never endure. This evil will be felt to a fearful extent in the 
present measure ; without, at the same time, any adequate advan- 
tage being derived from it. The whole, indeed, of this measure 
is of that sort of which the examples are so numerous, and which 
are calculated more for show than use. We hear often of parlia- 
mentary grounds, and in cases where parliamentary grounds 
would seem to be something distinct from grounds of reason and 
common sense. In the same manner we meet occasionally with 
what may be called parliamentary measures: that is to say, 
measures which in skilful hands will make an imposing figure in 
a statement, particularly when addressed to persons wholly un- 
conversant with the subject ; but will never pass upon experienced 
and intelligent men, and will be found utterly to fail in practice : a 
sort of show-goods, such as will appear to sufficient advantage 
in a shop-window, but will never bear the eye of a dealer, and 
will be found wholly unfit for wear. At all events, you must have 
recourse to other, and more extensive means. You rr/jst prepare 
the country: you must put the country in a situation in w^hich its 
patriotic zeal, its native courage, its various and abundant ener- 
gies, may have a way to operate and produce their natural eflfects. 
The general plan, which presents itself to me for that purpose, 
and on which a thousand others might be engrafted, according as 
circumstances varied, or future views developed themselves, 
would be instantly to distribute the country, or such parts of it 
as you wished immediately to prepare (for one merit, at least, of 
this plan is, that you may take as much or as little of it as you 
please) into small divisions of two or three contiguous parishes 
each, according to the population, stationing an officer in each, 
with a small deposit of arms and ammunition, and whose office 
it should be, in concert with all the zeal, intelligence, and influence 
which he might find in the neighbourhood, to train those who 
should voluntarily offer themselves, to such parts of military 
training as they would be alone capable of, and as are, after all, 
by far the most important. It would never enter into my idea, to 
introduce into bands of this sort any of the foppery of dress, or 
any distinctive dress at all; a riband, or eveii q. handkerchi§f 



88 ARMY OP RESERVE. 

round the arm, to distinguish those, who were receiving this in- 
struction, from the crowd that might occasionally accompany 
them, is all that would be necessary. Those essential parts of 
military training, as they seem to be thought, a fife and a drum, 
the marching in rank and in file, the wheeling backwards, the 
eyes right and eyes left, whatever may be their value on other 
occasions, — a point that I do not presume to meddle with — must 
here, however reluctantly, be given up. Firing at a mark, learn- 
ing, indeed, to fire at all, which (thanks to the game laws) few 
of our peasantry are acquainted with; some instruction in the 
manner of cleaning arms, much instruction in the methods of 
lining hedges, firing from behind trees, retiring upon call, and 
resuming a new station ; these are all the heads of discipline to 
which I should propose them to be exercised. 

It is not, indeed, very well ascertained what proportion these 
may bear, (a very deficient one, no doubt,) to the whole of what 
is required of soldiers ; nor how far much of that which use and 
prejudice have taught us to consider as essential, might be dispensed 
with, though possibly not without some disadvantage, even in 
regular armies. It is not very clear, that troops in the Duke of 
Marlborough's time, were required in marching to move all of 
them the same leg at once. Much of the modern practice was 
introduced under the authority of the great King of Prussia, who 
adapted his system to his own mode of warfare — the warfare of 
large armies in open countries — and might himself possibly be 
aware, that many of its rules, though upon the whole desirable, 
were not of thai, importance which his lesG-informed imitators 
have since ascribed to them. The French, whose authority at 
this time it is not for Europe to dispute, have changed back much 
of what was then introduced, and have got nearer in some respects 
to what was the old practice, but more nearly perhaps to what 
was the practice in the late American war : and though with them 
the eternal diiferenoe between trained and untrained ; between 
regular and irregular; (what are called irregular being with them 
perfectly regular troops in their own kind) between veteran and 
disciplined soldiers and hasty levies, is perfectly understood; yet 
the mode of warfare introduced by them countenances much 
more than heretofore, the utility of such armed and partially 
instructed bodies, as that which I have presumed to recommend. 

The measure is, at least, good as far as it goes. It draws no 
man from his home ; it puts no man in a state of painful con- 
straint ; it stops no man in his business, so as to leave his family 
to distress, or to become a charge upon the public. It has the 
further merit of not interfering with any thing else, so as to pre- 
vent any man from entering the army, or naw, ox militia, oj» 
serving the state in any other yv^^j^ 



ARMY OF RESERVE. 89 

Expense I would have none. The pay of the officer, the price 
of the powder consumed, the hu"e of tlie store-house for depositing 
the arms in cases where the parish church could not be made to 
serve the purpose, with such an allowance to the men, as was a 
mere equivalent for their lost time, these would be the whole, or 
nearly the whole, of the expenses incident to the plan, which cer- 
tainly could not be thought objectionable on that score. 

So much as to its negative merits. As to its advantages, it 
provides for a distribution of arms whenever the time shall come, 
and it prepares the people in a certain degree for the use of them. 
It fills the country with powder and ball ; and it instructs those in 
whose custody they are placed, to what hands, when the emer- 
gency shall call for it, they may be entrusted to the greatest 
advantage and with most safety. The officer, aided by the leading 
gentlemen, by the clergyman, by the principal yeomen and others, 
and having continued intercourse with the lower orders, will soon 
be able to form a tolerable judgment of those on whom he may 
rely, upon such an occasion, and those who, from feebleness or 
otherwise, are less worthy of such confidence. But the greatest, 
possibly, of all the advantages which I should be inclined to hope 
from this plan is, that it will produce that most important of all 
preparations, the preparation of the mind. It seems to be almost 
the only way, (I must think the most effectual,) in which the 
people will be thoroughly impressed with a conviction of the 
danger. The present measure will, I confess, prove a powerful 
instructor as far as inconvenience goes : but inconvenience is, at 
least, not the pleasantest way of conveying instruction. But the 
present measure will never instruct the people in this, that it must 
be on their own exertions, that they must depend for salvation. 
One main object of the measure is, that its tendency is the direct 
reverse. In the other way, both a sense of the danger, and a 
knowledge of the means necessary to be employed against it, will 
be carried into every farm-house and every cottage. It will be 
the conversation of the village green, of the church porch, and, 
what is not the least perhaps, of the ale-house. Men will be turn- 
ing their thoughts to what they can do upon the occasion, will be 
calling up the memory of former exploits, will be counting upon 
their newly-acquired means and knowledge, and above all will be 
familiarizing their minds to the object. It is not to be told how 
much of military knowledge (which is nothing more than the 
application of common sense to situations, new indeed, but soon 
capable of being comprehended), will spring up under this culti- 
vation, in situations where apparently it was to be least expected. 
An officer stationed in this way, if only by promoting military 
conversation, will become a source of instruction by no means to 
be despised. Every day of exercise or walk into the fields will 
8* M 



90 ARMY OF RESERVE. 

be a sort of clinical lecture. If the officer be an intelligent man, 
and has seen service, he will soon find himself surrounded by 
people, who will have acquired under his instructions reasonably- 
good military ideas, and have qualified themselves, should the 
occasion arise, to render him very useful assistance. 

This sort of armed force, not confined, like the volunteers 
hitherto raised, to small troops in towns, and who (without dis- 
paragement be it spoken) consist for the most part of persons, 
who from bodily force, habits, and situation of life, cannot gene- 
rally be expected to support the fatigues of military service, — this 
sort of armed force, co-extensive with the active population of 
the country, though it cannot of itself stop the march of an army, 
must produce an immense efiect, aided by troops of yeomanry, 
whose utility will be very great, in co-operation with such resist- 
ance as we expect from forces of a different description. When 
we talk of the difference to armies of acting in a friendly or a 
hostile country, we certainly do not suppose that difference to 
be less, because the hostile country happens to be prepared and 
armed. 

But every preparation of this sort has hitherto, by His Majesty's 
ministers, been completely neglected. We are, for aught we 
know, within two months of invasion, and the measure now just 
brought forth, is the only measure except the calling out of the 
militia, which they appear to have thought of. — But they do, it 
seems, immense things in secret. — True dignity shows itself in 
calm ! Why, Sir, what these measures can be, of which the 
country knows nothing, it is not very easy to comprehend ; and 
therefore one a little distrusts the nature of this calm. — There are 
different sorts of calm. There is the calm of confident and 
complacent hope, and the calm of despair. The calm of men, 
who having passed the first agitation of danger, have settled their 
minds to a determined resistance to it ; and the calm of those, 
who are only tranquil, because, from ignorance or insensibility, 
they are wholly incredulous of its approach. I wish the Honour- 
able Gentlemen's calm, may not be that of a wretched lodger, 
who, hearing a noise below, instead of manfully getting up to 
resist the robbers, only hides his head in the bed clothes, and 
hopes they may go off" with their other booty without coming into 
his apartment. 

Their secrecy too is altogether as whimsical an idea. They 
observe, I suppose, that Buonaparte is very secret ; and judging 
him, as they well may, to be a great Captain, they conceive, by 
imitating his secrecy, that they shall appear to be great Captains 
themselves. But they forget the difference between attack and 
defence. A man who means to surprise his enemy does very right 
to keep his intentions secret ; but it is not altogether so proper on 



ARMY OF RESERVE. 91 

the part of him who means only not to be surprised. An officer 
who was about to surprise a post by a night attack, would do 
very well not to tell his soldiers, whither he was leading them ; 
but it would be odd, if the officer on the other side was to say to 
the next in command, "I have intelligence that we shall be 
attacked to-night ; but remember this is only for yourself. Don't 
say a word to the guard ; secrecy is the very soul of military 
operations." — There is another rather material difference, that 
Buonaparte has nothing to do but to issue his orders with a cer- 
tainty that they will be punctually obeyed, whether the army like 
them or not, whether they are called upon to execute them at a 
longer or shorter notice, or whether they have any conception or 
not of the general purpose which they are meant to answer. But 
the army here to be applied to, is the people of Great Britain, 
who, besides that they may debate a little upon the orders which 
they receive, must act in a great degree from their own impulse 
and discretion, and who will never be brought to act at all, if they 
themselves are not previously made sensible of the danger. — I, for 
one, will not pay them so bad a compliment as to suppose that 
they are not fit to be trusted with this secret. I disclaim the 
notion, I renounce " as impious and heretical" that " damnable 
doctrine," that to blind the people as to their true situation, to 
conceal from them the reality of the danger, is the only way to 
keep up their courage. If this is really their state, then is the 
country in a deplorable way indeed : but changed as the people 
of this country are, by a thousand causes, and under the influence 
of a sort of language and policy which has prevailed for so many 
years, I will never believe, that they must be lulled into a false 
security, be exposed to all the dreadful dangers of a surprise, (the 
effects of which no man can calculate,) because, to show them 
their danger, would be to dismay them. How do we combine 
this with all the vaunting and high-flown compliments, which we 
are for ever paying them ? Are they only brave, when they 
believe there is no danger ? I reject the imputation. Their safety 
depends upon their exertions ; and their exertions must be stimu- 
lated, as I am confident they will be stimulated, by a sense of 
their danger. 

In addition to those exertions which the people themselves must 
make, and on which must rest our chief hopes, there is much that 
ministers themselves ought to be diligently employed about, but to 
which I must suspect no attention has beeii given. Every officer 
of note and character in the country ought to be called upon for 
his opinion : not an opinion given in conversation, and with an 
obliging acquiescence, perhaps, to the presumed notions or wishes 
of the person he is talking to, but such as must stand in evidence 
against him, and on which his military judgment and credit will 



92 ARMY OF RESERVE. 

be at stake. Innumerable measures of precaution are likewise 
necessary, and which would not be the less useful, because they 
would be attended with no expense or distress to the country. I 
do not object to the present measure on account of the expense 
and inconvenience which attend it, great as they will be. What- 
ever is necessary must be done, let the hardship be what it will. 
But I beg that we may not invert the proposition, as many are 
apt to do, and suppose that whatever is burthensome and oppres- 
sive, must therefore be efficacious. I suspect the present measure 
to be of that character ; possibly in all its parts ; but unquestion- 
ably I must object to it, in that part, which goes in the first 
instance, and finally, as I believe, to make it impossible for us to 
have an army. 

After a debate in which Mr. Addington (Chancellor of the Exchequer) vin- 
dicated the proposed measure, and Mr. Pitt approved the principle of it, but 
objected to some of its provisions, the address which had been moved by the 
Secretary at War was put, and carried without a division. 



( 93 ) 



DEFENCE OF THE COUNTRY. 



DECEMBER 9th, 1803. 

Mr. Bragge, Secretary at War, moved that the House should resolve itself 
into a Committee of Supply on the Army Estimates, which included, amongst 
other provisions, the sum of 730,000Z. for the Volunteer Corps of Great Britain. 
On the question being put on the first resolution, 

Mr.Wim)ham began by adverting to the manner in which the 
business had been opened by the Honourable Secretary, which, 
he said, though very proper at any ordinary time, and though 
possibly very proper then, was so difierent from the view which 
he felt himself compelled to take of the subject, that his observa- 
tions, he feared, would appear very little to arise out of the state- 
ments which the House had just heard. His view of the subject 
went to the general detence of the country both present and to 
come. Under that notion, the difficulty was to know where to 
begin, or how to confine the discussion within such bounds as he 
should wish to prescribe to it. It was impossible, in the course 
of such an inquiry, not to bring forward many points that must 
bear hard upon the Honourable Gentlemen opposite. He could 
not arraign the measures of the time without arraigning the con- 
duct of those, by whom these measures were planned; nor could 
he suffer his mind to be so engrossed and absorbed, as seemed to 
be the case with many, by the mere business of defence, as to 
lose all thought about the conduct and character of those to whom 
the national aflTaii's were entrusted. This last, though in some 
respects a secondary consideration, inasmuch as it must be found- 
ed on a previous examination of public measures, was, neverthe- 
less, a very important and necessary one, was connected with 
every part of the subject, and might serve, perhaps, as well as 
any that could be chosen, to present the subject in that point of 
view, in which it was most important to consider it. His own 
general opinion on this head, he could not better describe, than in 
some lines which gentlemen might have seen on Inn windows 
and shutters, where the writer, speaking of the faults of men and 
women, and allowing that many faults belong to men, concludes, 
most injuriously and ungallantly, 

Poor women have but two : 



There's nothing good they say, and nothing right they do. 



94 DEFENCE OF THE COUNTRY. 

These lines, however bad the poetry, and however false the 
sentinnent in its original application, were, he was sorry to say, 
perfectly descriptive of his opinion of His Majesty's present 
ministers. That he might not seem to say this at random, with- 
out foundation or proof, he would beg only to take a short view 
of their conduct, as applicable to the actual state of things. If 
he were to proceed strictly in this inquiry, though by no means 
unjustly, he should take up their conduct from the moment of the 
Treaty of Amiens. It was from that period, according to the 
opinion of many at the time, according to their own opinion, as 
declared since, that measures of precaution and defence ought to 
have begim. They who had declared that, from the moment of 
the signature of that treaty, the conduct of the enemy was a con- 
tinued series of violence, insult, and aggression ; they whose par- 
tisans had told us, that he must be ' nature's fool,' and not the 
Honourable Gentleman's, who could ever believe in the durability 
of that treaty; they certainly could not refuse to accept the Treaty 
of Amiens, as the period from which the defence of the country 
ought to have been a subject never absent from their minds. But 
as he did not wish to deal hardly with the Honourable Gentlemen, 
as it would be mean and niggardly to be spariijg cf concessions 
where the materials of charge existed in such abundance, he 
would be content to date his examination from a much more 
recent period, and to leave out all the intervening space between 
the Treaty of Amiens, and the 8th of March, the day on which 
His Majesty's message was brouglu to parliament. He wnnld. 
suppose it to have been perfectly right that, from the moment 
peace was made, no matter with what circumstances, you were 
to proceed according to the established rule in such cases, were 
to reduce your army, dismantle your fleet, dispose of all your 
stock and implements of war, sell off gun-boats for little more 
than the value of the old iron, refuse for five guineas men whom 
you would be happy now to get back for fifty ; discharge others, 
whom you could not get back at all. All this he would conclude 
to be right, and that, without the observance of these accustomed 
forms, ministers would never have been able to persuade the coun- 
try, or to satisfy themselves, that the peace which they had made 
was a real peace, and not a mere make-believe. He would con- 
sider their conduct only during the period subsequent to the 8th 
of March. The establishments of the country were then happily 
brought to the standard at which it is proposed they should remain; 
all the reductions had been completed ; no subsequent alteration 
had taken place ; a vote in parliament might have passed, but 
nothing more : all the means of defence were as much to be re-col- 
lected as if the country had never been at war. Giving ministers 
full credit for the completely defenceless state in which the coun- 



DEFENCE OF THE COUNTRY. 95 

try then was, he would proceed to consider, what the change 
was which they had since effected, and what the means wliich 
they had possessed for that purpose; so that by a comparison of 
the means possessed, and the work done, a judgment might be 
formed as to the degree of blame or merit ascribable to their 
conduct. 

And here he would wish to adopt a method, such as was often 
employed on other subjects, where, when the quantum of objects 
could not be ascertained with exactness, means were resorted to 
for assigning at least a maximum or minimum. He had heard, 
where in the case of exorbitant election-charges, in a bill for 
cockades for instance, the candidate had otiered to pay for all 
the ribands that could be proved to have been in the shop for 
the last six months ; or, where the charge was for liquor, instead 
of attempting to calculate the number of drinkers, and the average 
quantity they might severally have drunk, he had proposed not 
only to pay for all that had been in the cellar within a certain 
time, but to gauge the house, and to give credit for all that could 
have been contained in it, supposing it to have been one entire 
' cistern of liquor from the cellar to the garret. He would pursue 
a course somewhat similar in estimating the merit of the exertions 
of the Honourable Gentlemen. Instead of saying 'so much ought 
to have been done in recruiting, so much in completing the militia, 
so much in procuring defence other ways,' he would rather beg 
the house to take a general view of the means possessed by the 
country, of the manner in which ministers had the disposal of 
these means, of the time they have had to employ them, and 
comparing the whole with the result, to determine in their own 
minds, whether the affairs of the country, in this most critical 
concern of its defence, had or had not been placed in proper 
hands. Let the several heads of comparison, as he had enume- 
rated them, be considered more in detail. The means of the 
country, in its first and greatest article, the basis of all the rest, 
was a population of fifteen millions. The time, as he had agreed 
to take it, from the 8th of March, was nine months, or three 
quarters of a year. The weahh of the country was, he must 
confidently say, for this purpose unlimited. There was nothing 
that the country was not willing to do in the way of personal 
service, or to contribute in the way of money. It was long, 
indeed, before the Honourable Gentlemen thought fit to call upon 
them. Whether it was that they feared to alarm the holders of 
omnium, according to their own original account, or whether they 
distrusted the zeal of the country, according to the explanation 
given of their intentions, in their second edition, when they had 
had the assistance of a learned commentator (Mr. Sheridan) ; 
whichever of these was the case with resj)ect to them, the result 



90 DEFENCE OF THE COUNTRY. 

of the fact was, that the country was no sooner told of its danger, 
and summoned to rouse in its defence, than it obeyed the call 
with an alacrity which the Honourable Gentlemen have since 
confessed themselves to have been unprepared for. ' They did 
not call spirits from the vasty deep,' which refused to answer to 
their bidding. — On the contrary, the Honourable Gentlemen had 
no sooner began to tnj for this zeal, had hardly begun to sink this 
well, before the national feeling rose so fast upon them, that they 
found themselves in danger of being overwhelmed by it, and 
begged I'or God's sake to be pulled up again. They had no sooner 
turned this cock, than it spurted in their faces. They had nothing 
to plead, therefore, on the score, that the country did not second 
their eflbrts, that it withheld its assistance, that it kept back its 
milk, as it were: the country was ready to yield its resources to 
anv amount for which they would have declared it necessary to 
call for them. 

So far as to the means which they possessed. But were the 
means employed inconsiderable, or not abundantly sufficient to 
prove the improvident management of those who had the admin- 
istration of tliem ? The money expended for the army of reserve 
alone, and that, too, in mere bounties, could not be estimated at 
less than 1,000,000/. For the volunteers, the Honourable Gentle- 
man had just said, that the estimate for the ensuing year must be 
700,000/. ; and, therefore, for the year now closed, in which, if 
some articles were less, others were considerably greater, could 
not, he conceived, be less than 1,000,000/. This, as the sum ad- 
vanced by government to that object ; to which, if he was to add, 
as undoubtedly he must add, the part contributed by individuals, 
he certainly should be within the mark, when he stated the whole 
expense incurred for volunteers at not less than 2,000,000/. 

Here, then, was a sum of at least 3,000,000/. expended in 
little more than the mere creation of a force ; and that in a way, 
for the greater part of it, infinitely more oppressive than if raised 
by a general tax. What then, they were to ask, was the force 
created 1 And upon this occasion the statement of the Honoura- 
ble Gentleman had something very grand and imposing, perfectly 
in the style of many statements, which were heard in that House, 
The safety of the country was provided for, it might be said, by 
a vast mass of armed force amounting to not less than 500,000 
men. He was far from sure that the numbers might not even 
exceed these limits. But, of course, it was not to be supposed, 
that they were to take this statement merely as it stood in words, 
without inquiring a little, what this mass, this fabric consisted of; 
how much of it was of solid masonry, part of the old standing force 
of the country ; how much was of a later date and less regular con- 
struction ; how much might be composed of materials still more 



DEFENCE OF THE COUNTRY. 97 

recently collected, and more hastily put together, and be liable, 
in consequence, to various cracks and settlements ; and what por- 
tion of it was mere lath and plaster, not distinguishable, perhaps, 
by the eye, and seeming to be a continuation of the same front, 
but no more the same with it in reality, than one of the new tem- 
porary barracks, of which they might expect to hear so much 
soon, was to be considered as a building of the same sort with 
St. Paul's or Westminster Abbey. It would be found, upon 
examination, and when this great edifice came to be properlv 
surveyed, that a very small part, indeed, was regular army; 
that a large portion of it was militia ; that another less consi- 
derable part was army of reserve ; but that three-fourths of the 
whole was the mere levy in mass, moulded into the form, and 
known under the title of, volunteer corps. This was not what 
would have been understood, at least without explanation, in a 
report of the force of France, or Austria, or Prussia, or any other 
military power. Of the two first descriptions of force here enu- 
merated, it was not necessary to say much. The regular army was 
what they had alwaj^s known the regular army to be, and never 
more known it to be, than during the w4io!e of the period of the 
late war. The militia had long been wrought to a high degree 
of excellence, and was at that time perhaps in as great perfection as 
it was possible for troops to attain, of whom neither ofiicers nor 
men could have the benefit of actual service. Of the army of 
reserve the character must be for some time continually changing, 
according to their progress in training, and according to the 
manner in which the men were disposed of, either as selected, 
and incorporated into old battalions ; making, however, a very in- 
commodious mixture of men serving upon different tenures; or 
as put together in battalions by themselves. But in neither way 
could they be considered, for some time at least, as fit to be 
classed with the regular troops ; nor would it be possible at any 
time for those so to class them, who refused to admit to the de- 
scription of a soldier, any man whose engagement of service did 
not extend to term of life. It would be curious, indeed, if those 
who resisted most pertinaciously, and at the hazard even of having 
no army, every attempt to change the service of the line from 
life to term of years, should now find out that soldiers serving 
both for term of years and for service w^ithin the realm only, 
Avere entitled to reckon as part of the regular army. But a great 
portion of these were, for the present, good for no service either 
without or within the realm. They were men newly collected 
together with their pockets full of money, or who had only 
emptied them by a continued course of intoxication, and had 
not yet got their grass-flesh off, had not got the beer out of 
their bellies which they had been swilling for wrecks, manv of 
9 N 



98 DEFENCE OF THE COUNTRY. 

them at the rate of fifty guineas a man. As for those who were 
left behind in what were called the reserved battalions, they, for 
the most part, were so left behind and reserved, because no one 
thought it worth his while to take them, and were of a sort which 
no time or drilling could ever render serviceable ; time, indeed, 
being with many of them the last thing wanted, as the very ob- 
jection to be urged was, that they were already past the age of 
service. The last and most important, certainly the most exten- 
sive head of force, was that which comprised the great body of 
inhabitants to whom arms had been given or promised, the gene- 
ral collection of the volunteer corps. In speaking of these 
bodies, it was as well, perhaps, to attempt, though the attempt 
was sure to be fruitless, to obviate tihe misrepresentation, 
which, he was aware, was lying in wait, to seize upon every 
word he should utter, (which " hush'd in grim repose expects his 
evening prey,") by observing, that what he had to condemn in 
these institutions was not the individuals, but the system : that in 
speaking of a body of 400,000 men, he certainly did not mean to 
say that they were all useless, or worthless, or of a character he 
knew not what, that was to make them run away at the sight of 
an enemy. He certainly should not be inclined to say this of any 
400,000 men, taken at random from among the inhabitants of this 
country, and must necessarily be less inclined to say so, of a body 
which, from the manner of its being combined, must contain a 
greater proportion of the zeal, spirit, youth, courage, and patriot- 
ism of the country, than any other of equal numbers taken with- 
out rule or selection. To impute, therefore, to any one a purpose 
of censuring the volunteers individually, was too childish to be 
deserving of notice. As little could he intend to say, that the 
body of volunteers, as at present constituted, were of no use. 
Four hundred thousand men with arms in their hands, and con- 
sisting, for the most part, of persons within certain ages, could 
not be so combined, as not to be capable of being useful. All that 
he meant to say was, that these corps must be forever unsuited to 
the sort of service on which it was intended to employ them ; and 
that the methods pursued with them were calculated to I'ender 
them as little useful as it was possible for such an assemblage of 
men to be. The idea was, as had been long foreseen, and long 
deprecated, to combine these into companies, regiments, and bri- 
gades, and to endeavour to make regular soldiers of them. He 
was of opinion that you never could make regular soldiers of 
them ; and that the attempt to do so was founded, in every re- 
spect, upon false views, both of the nature of those corjis and of 
the military service in general. He grounded this opinion upon 
circumstances, certainly having nothing injurious in them to the 
characters of persons acting in volunteer corps. It was no re- 



DEFENCE OF THE COUNTRY. 99 

proach to any one, that he was of an age, or size, or state of 
health, that did not admit of his performing the duties of a sol- 
dier ; that he was the father of a family, and could not be spared 
from the care and superintendence of those who looked to him at 
every moment as their protector and guide ; that he was engaged 
in a business which he could not leave without ruin, and without 
ruin to those whom it was his duty to support There was no 
reproach in all this, but there was a great deal in it, which must 
prevent corps, consisting, for the most part, of men so circum- 
stanced, from either performing, for any length of time, tlie duties 
of soldiers employed on service, or from acquiring the expertness 
and habits by which those duties must be performed. These 
were truths which would not, probably, be much disputed. All 
the world would agree, that to talk of giving to citizens and 
householders ("to resiant inhabitants paying scot or lot,") to men 
engaged in professions and callings, who were compelled to Uve 
on one spot, were tied down by the care of families, who rejected 
military control, were serving without pay, were officered in a 
great measure by persons of their own description if not of their 
own choosing — that to talk of giving to such men the charac- 
ter and qualities of regular soldiers, was the greatest of all ab- 
surdities. Yet this, which every one would agree in, which no 
one would be hardy enough to deny, was the utmost that had 
ever been said, in disparagement, as it was called, of the volun- 
teers. All the rest was a mere military question, by which the 
volunteers were not at all affected. Once admit that collections 
of men, such as he had just described, were not capable of being 
formed into regular regiments, that is to say, regiments possessing 
the properties which were looked for in troops of the line, and it 
then became a question, to be decided on general military princi- 
ples, and in which the volunteers were no longer concerned, how 
far corps of a certain acknowledged inferiority ought to be em- 
ployed in certain services, or to be placed in certain situations. 

And here a great mistake seemed to prevail of supposing, that 
whatever possessed in itself a certain degree of force, or strength, 
must, by its addition to any thing of the same description, 
produce a degree of force, more than would be found in either 
of the parts separately : that strength added to strength, would 
always produce strength. This was evidently not so. If the 
addition supposed was not judiciously made, weakness, instead 
of strength, might be the consequence. No one could doubt that 
a regiment of four or five hundred men, volunteers or others, 
must possess some power of annoying an enemy. But was it 
sure that your line would be strengthened, and your general 
power of annoying and defeating the enemy be increased by such 
addition ? He would take an example fi'om a profession with 



100 DEFENCE OF THE COUNTRY. 

which the House and he were, in general, probably less acquainted 
than they were even with military afiairs, but which might happen 
to be more familiar to them in this particular view. What was 
the reason that in naval actions, frigates, and even fifty-gun ships, 
were not suffered to make part of the line 1 Was it, that fifty- 
gun ships, or even frigates, were of no force ? That their balls 
did not hit hard ? That some of their guns were not even heavier 
than a part of those which formed the battery of a ship of the 
line 1 By no means. It was, he must conclude, because a line of 
battle at sea was a species of machine so constructed, as to re- 
quire a certain proportionate strength in all its parts, the failure 
of any one of which would draw after it the failure of all the 
rest. The same was the case with an army. There also was a 
line, and which, as might be collected from the very expression 
of "regiments of the line,' could be formed only of troops ti-ained 
to a certain degree of discipline and regularity. To form it 
otherwise, to put into the line corps which, from want of expe- 
rience or instruction, might not maintain the part of the action 
allotted to them, would not only be to endanger the whole by that 
particular failure, but might, in a thousand other ways, embarrass 
the operations of an army, and defeat the plans of a commander. 
Manoeuvres must be calculated upon supposed qualifications in the 
troops and officers, who are to execute them. What must be the 
situation of a general, if, when directing the execution of any 
pressing service — a hill, suppose, to be occupied, a post to be 
maintained, a wood to be defended, a redoubt to be stormed — in 
a crisis which left no leisure for deliberation or inquiry, he must 
be comparing the characters of the different corps under his 
command, and be exposed, at last, to the uncertainties of troops, 
whose composition was unknown, whose conduct in a day of 
action was to be tried for the first time, and who, in the mode of 
service now proposed for them, might involve, in their defeat or 
miscarriage, the discomfiture of the whole army. These were 
not objections to volunteers in general : so far from it, that he, on 
the contrary, had always contended for them, to a far greater 
extent, though oh a far less expensive footing, than that on which 
they were now established. His objections went only to volun- 
teers, moulded into the forms and destined for the sort of service 
which government had now assigned them. It was government 
which had given them this most false direction ; which, by dress- 
ing them in red coats, had betrayed, at once, the character in 
which they meant to consider them, and the use they meant to 
put them to, — a use for which they could never be made fit. This 
was the point on which he wished to insist. Other objections to 
the present system he should not now dwell upon ; nor consider 
what might be the future danger arising to the state from bodies 



DEFENCE OF THE COUNTRY. 101 

of armed men, subject to no regular authority, governed by- 
committees and sub-committees, and having more the character 
of debating societies, than of schools of military discipline. He 
was considering them merely as part of the defence of the coun- 
try against a foreign enemy, and, in this view, he must recall to 
the attention of the House — first, the immense reduction to be 
made in our force, when, out of five or six hundred thousand, 
four were understood not to be soldiers, but only armed inhabit- 
ants ; and next, when these armed inhabitants were prepared and 
fashioned in a manner so little judicious, as in the plan now pur- 
sued. When to this was added, that by the exemptions given, 
contrary to the intentions of ministry, and by the mere effect of 
haste and oversight, number^ had latterly flocked into these corps, 
as a refuge from other service, and that so large a portion of the 
active population of the country was thereby locked up, and 
withdrawn from the service either of the army of reserve or mi- 
litia (the regular recruiting was out of the question ;) he would 
leave to the House to judge what credit was to be given to the 
Honourable Gentlemen on this head of the account. The whole 
return, the whole force produced by the Honourable Gentlemen, 
after three millions expended, and with the command of an un- 
limited credit, was first 400,000 volunteers, such as he had de- 
scribed, and whose formation operated, as he had described, in 
repect to the other services ; secondly, a militia, excellent in its 
kind, but incomplete, and rendered more difficult to be completed 
by the effect of the measure above referred to; thirdly, twenty, or 
six and twenty thousand army of reserve; fourthly and lastly, 
an addition (as he should have said,) of 5000, or (as he now un- 
derstood from the Honourable Gentlemen) of 7000 men to the 
regular army ! This was all that the Honourable Gentlemen had 
produced at the end of nine months, and as the fruit of all their 
labour and travail. This was all that the nation had got, in re- 
turn for its large contributions, its ready sacrifices, its heavy 
expense, both of patience and money. Five, or seven thousand 
men to the regular army, five or seven pints of reasonably good 
soup, was the whole that these state-cooks had been able to pro- 
duce, after all their simmerings and boilings, all the hams and 
chickens, and pounds of beef, which they had melted down, and 
the bills which they had run up in consequence, at the different 
shops. 

Thus far he had gone in considering what a great philosopher 
of old would have called the living instruments of our defence. 
The inanimate instruments must not be overlooked, though he 
should say but little to all the objects which that class would com- 
prise, such as works, fortresses, preparations by sea and land, 
everv thing in short that wisdom and foresight could provide or 
9* 



102 DEFENCE OF THE COUNTRY, 

could arrange, towards making the approach of an enemy diffi- 
cult, or giving force and efficacy to the action of those who were 
preparing to resist him. In all this he feared a dreadful deficien- 
cy. Much as might be wanting in living means, the want of 
judgment and ability in the application of those means, the want 
of a presiding mind either to create resources, or to turn to account 
those already existing, was, he feared, not less conspicuous. He 
would not attempt to enter into a criticism either upon the general 
distribution of the forces, which so far as it was built upon a sys- 
tem of concentration, or of collecting the force into great masses, 
for the protection of vital parts, he certainly approved, nor would 
he offer any opinion as to the considerable works going on at 
Chelmsford and Chatham, having, in fact, no opinion to ofier. He 
would touch upon one point only of that sort, and that, not so 
much with a view of stating what he thought ought to be done, 
as of remarking on what icas done, and upon the dreadful weak- 
ness and inconclusiveness of inany of those reasonings, which 
governed the conduct of the country, in points where its very ex- 
istence was at stake. From the northernmost point on the coast 
of Suffolk, where the protection might be supposed to cease from 
the shipping of Yarmouth, to a part of the coast of Essex, where 
a naval defence of another kind might be supposed to begin (and 
where he hoped it had at length begun, though, very late in the 
year, it certainly had not made its appearance) ; there was a line 
of coast accessible in most weathers, and certainly very commo- 
dious for the landing of an enemy in such vessels as those in 
which they were expected to come. Upon this line he should 
unquestionably think it highly advantageous if a defence were 
provided, formed by the construction of what were known to our 
officers under the name of Martello Towers, a species of edifice 
so called from a memorable instance of one at Martello in Corsi- 
ca ; where, by a tower of this sort, garrisoned by some ten or a 
dozen men, and mounted with about two guns, a ship of the line 
of ours, and a frigate, were, during the last war, completely foil- 
ed and driven off, though they were able to approach within a 
quarter of a mile of the object, and though the Captain, a most 
approved officer, would not withdraw from the contest while 
there was a hope of success left, nor till he had lost an immense 
number of his men, and had had his ship twice set on fire. No 
one would pretend to say, that towers of this sort would not pro- 
duce a great effect upon an enemy, whoever he might be, that 
came within the reach of their guns. That they would stop the 
disembarkation of infantry, he was not prepared to say. On the 
contrary, he was of opinion that they would not. Great as the 
loss might be, the enemy, if determined, would still accomplish 
his object. But would the same be the case with artillery and 



DEFENCE OF THE COUNTRY. 103 

horses ? And would not tfie slaughter be immense, and the delay 
most important, were it possible that under such a fire a disem- 
barkation of that sort could after all take place ? The objection, 
therefore, to such defences must resolve itself into the considera- 
tion of expense, or into that of the force which it would lock up, 
and the means which would be furnished to the enemy, should 
the fortresses in question finally fall into his hands. As to the lat- 
ter objection, he had already stated, what the contents of such 
towers were, and what the loss would be to those from whom 
they should be taken, viz. a dozen men at the utmost, and a couple 
of guns. The value to the enemy would be none; for the guns 
would never be transportable ; and certainly not the towers ; and 
neither would be of any use to him in the places where they were. 
But their uselessness to the enemy it was unnecessary to prove, 
as it was hardly possible that they should fall into his hands. It 
was of the nature of these little fortresses (quite the reverse of 
what was the case with redoubts), that they were equally impreg- 
nable to cannon and to musquetry, and could not be taken but by 
such means as the enemy would neither have time nor inclination 
to employ. The whole question, therefore, was a question of ex- 
pense : and what would that expense be, incurred once for all, 
compared with the maintenance of such a living force, (supposing 
even that we had the force, and could spare it for that purpose,) 
as would give to any tract of coast the same security which would 
be derived from the defence in question 1 Considering the simphci- 
ty of the construction of these towers, the little interior fitting 
they would require, the rude materials of which they might be 
composed, (the stones made use of for paving London, might 
serve for the most expensive part,) the facility with which materi- 
als would be conveyed for buildings necessarily situated on the 
edge of the coast, and in its most accessible parts," it is difficult to 
conceive, that 1000/. apiece must not be an ample allowance. 
And thus for a sum of .30,000/. and with a force of 300 men, thir- 
ty miles of the coast, in parts the most vulnerable, would be put 
in a state of security far greater at least than any which they 
could enjoy without the aid of such precautionary measures. But 
let the House consider what happened without this. To supply 
the place of these despised towers, the coast was lined with sea- 
fencibles, armed with pikes, a weapon which had been said, if he 
recollected right, in some of the circular official papers, to be ca- 
pable of great effect in the hands of a Briton, fighting for every 
thinw that was dear to him. He wished the House to reflect, what 
would be the situation of these pike-men, at Aldborough for in- 
stance, one of the places where there was a corps of that sort, 
and which was situated on the part of the coast to which he had 
been alluding. Here was a straight shore with deep water, and 



104 DEFENCE OF THE COUNTRY. 

a beach, on which m moderate weather vessels might run with 
confidence, without even shortening sail: and in these circum- 
stances it was supposed, that when vessels should thus arrive, 
containing each a hundred soldiers, and carrying a four-and-twen- 
ty pounder on its bow, men were to stand on the shore with their 
pikes, and push them off"! Was this the idea of a bold Briton? 
or was it the idea of master Fribble ? " Begone, fellow." You 
might as well suppose, that the enemy was to be kept off by 
bodkins or knitting-needles ! 

It was certainly not by a force of this sort, that the coast could 
be defended. The great argument, indeed, was, that it could not 
be defended at all, and that therefore no defence should be 
attempted. And here he wished to recall the attention of the 
House to that loose, vague, inconsiderate style of reasoning, to 
which he had before alluded, and to which, it was melancholy to 
think, the very life and being of the state was sometimes entrust- 
ed. When a proposal was made, for securing a part of the coast 
by works, as happened in the case of an honourable friend behind 
him (Colonel Craufurd), the answer universally made was, that 
you could not fortify every part of the coast ; and thence it was 
meant to be inferred, that it was useless to fortify any. But what 
was the sort of reasoning that could lead to such a conclusion? 
In many cases, he was ready to allow, that an argument to that 
effect would be just. If the question was of shutting mice out 
of a pantry, the conclusion would be correct, that to stop up one 
hole was useless, while any other was suffered to remain open. 
The strength of a chain, according to an old observation, was 
the strength of the weakest link. To fortify those above it, was 
useless : to add to the strength of those below it, might be injurious, 
as well as useless ; because, without adding to the general strength, 
you might add something to the weight. But where any one to 
apply that same reasoning to a chain in a figurative sense, to a 
chain of posts, nothing could be more false and inconclusive. It 
is not here as in the other case, that the force applied acted 
through every part. The force acted only on the part to which 
it was applied, and if that part happened to be the strongest, 
would be resisted with the power of the strongest. It was true, 
that if the enemy knew your weak point, and could be sure of 
carrying his attack there, all that he was arguing against, must 
be admitted. But would any one maintain, that such was the 
fact? Was this, what they heard on other occasions? When the 
danger of invasion was in discussion, how were those laughed to 
scorn, who seemed to reason upon the idea, that the enemy, once 
embarked, could say either where he should, or where he should 
not, touch the land? How much of our confidence was founded, 
and justly founded, on the uncertainty which belongs to all the 



DEFENCE OF THE COUNTRY. 105 

enemy's operations, and in the impossibility of his fixing with 
certainty the point in which his descent must be made ? Yet here 
the tables were suddenly turned ; and to attempt to secure any 
part of the coast, while another was left unguarded, was treated 
as trifling and childish; because the enemy would be sure to 
choose what was weakest, and must be able to guide his arma- 
ment with perfect precision to the part, whatever it was, that he 
should choose. He urged this topic, with a view to expose the 
sort of reasoning, which was admitted often into concerns of the 
greatest importance, and might prevail possibly at the present 
moment in questions more critical and more certain, than that 
which he had brought forward respecting the coast of Suflblk. 

There was, in fact, no security anywhere, with persons so 
wholly unsuited to the arduous crisis in which they had to act, as 
the Honourable Gentlemen. In every part of their system little 
considerations were mixing themselves with great, so as to spoil 
the effect of the whole, and prevent its working truly in any of 
its operations. This was eminently the case in the pecuniary part, 
where a wild profusion was so combined with a mean parsimony, 
that it was like the conduct of a man, who in giving a great enter- 
tainment with all the dainties of the season, peas at a guinea a 
quart, should suffer the whole to be spoilt at last by a want of 
bread or salt. With this must be coupled, as it possibly arose 
out of it, an extraordinary passion for machinery, into which the 
Honourable Gentlemen had been led, partly, as it appeared, by 
the hope of working cheaper, and partly by that common error, 
of supposing that a great machine must be calculated to produce 
a great effect. Their machines were much like that which Hogarth 
represents, where the wedge, the lever, the axis in peritrochio, all 
the mechanical powers, were introduced for the purpose of draw- 
ing a cork, an operation which a waiter or a butler would perform 
more effectually, as well as more expeditiously, by a little instru- 
ment from his pocket called a cork-screw. It was of the nature 
of all machinery, that in proportion as the parts were complicated, 
the mSvement was likely to be slow ; not to mention that if any 
part should happen to "be misplaced, or wanting, or ill-adjusted, 
the whole must be at a stand. This was very much the case with 
some of the machines of the Honourable Gentlemen. In order 
to keep their expenses out of sight, and to throw as much as pos- 
sible upon individuals without the intervention of Parliament, they 
had set up their grand system of lord-lieutenants, deputy-lieuten- 
ants, lieutenants of division, inspectors of divisions, supcrintend- 
ants of parishes, &c. &c. persons very proper to be appointed, 
and to be held in readiness, but very improper for much of the 
work on which they were to be employed, namely, that of getting 
the country into a state of military defence. Of all the instru- 



106 DEFENCE OF THE COUNTRY. 

ments to work with for such a purpose, the worst, surely, that 
could be devised, was that of a deputy-Ueutenant's meeting. Every 
one had heard frequently, and most proverbially, of the slow pro- 
gress of official business. But at what rate must that business 
proceed, which had for its office a county ? Which, instead of 
clerks, with salaries, amenable to superiors, and compellable to a 
certain attendance, was transacted by country-gentlemen, subject 
to no authority, who were bound by no especial duty, who might 
attend as much or as little as they liked, and who might feel pos- 
sibly that they conferred a favour every time that they attended 
at all? Offices too, in which Government business was transacted, 
were open commonly every day, and for many hours each day. 
But what must be the condition of that office, whose days of at- 
tendance were one in a week, and whose office-hours were about 
three in each of those days ? This office was likewise a corre- 
sponding office: but what must be the activity of that corre- 
spondance, where between the letter and its answer the least 
interval known was a week? He took no notice here of the 
manner in which at such meetings business must necessarily be 
conducted, where few possibly had given much attention to the 
object in question, where no one had any right to prescribe to the 
rest, where many would come more to talk of their own private 
business or to meet those they were in quest of, than to promote 
the business under discussion, where most were impatient to be 
gone, where all had voices, and, what was possibly not the least 
evil, where every one had a right to declare that voice at as great 
length as he thought proper. 

He could not better illustrate the effects of the system which 
had thrown business into this course, than by stating what had 
happened upon the subject of signals. It might have been thought, 
that the arranging a system of signals, as it must have been 
among the earliest and most pressing objects of attention, that 
which, in some sort, was to give effect to every thing else, was 
the one also which would have been most easily accomphshed, 
and most speedily carried into execution. The mode that had 
been adopted, was, too, of the most simple kind. A line of sta- 
tions was to be established along the coast, placed under the direc- 
tion of persons appointed by the Admiralty, and qualified to col- 
lect and to convey, by means of the Admiralty signals, such more 
detailed intelligence as was necessary for officers appearing off 
the coast, or commanding at the naval stations ; while from this, 
as from a circumference, other lines were drawn inland, for the 
mere purpose of giving alarm, or for communicating a few of 
the more simple results of what had been observed upon the coast. 
Any one would suppose that this was a work, which would not 
take long in completing; considering that it was of that sort, 



, DEFENCE OF THE COUNTRY. 107 

which might be going on in all places at once, so that the time 
for the whole would be no more than that of the latest of the 
parts ; and that in three weeks or a month from the first alarm, 
that is, from the 8th of March, however much our means of 
resistance might have been wanting, we should at least not have 
been liable to see the enemy amongst us without notice of his 
approach. And so it would have been with any set of persons, 
who would have done things in a plain way; who would have 
been content " to draw a cork with a cork-screw." But not so 
the savers of money, and the lovers of machinery. By seeking 
to divide the expense of these signals with the counties, and 
throwing the business, in consequence, into the train which he 
had described, the result was (the House would hear it with aston- 
ishment) that in someof the maritime counties, immediately exposed 
to the enemy, and where the attack was most expected, the sys- 
tem of signals, even in those parts of it which were most essential, 
and on which the whole depended, was not completed to that 
very hour. It would naturally be enquired, how this could happen; 
and the explanation might be given, by stating only what had 
taken place in the county to which he belonged. When the 
deputy-lieutenants signified to the lieutenant of division, that sta- 
tions must be prepared for the reception" of the naval officers ; the 
lieutenant of division did not care to stir in the business, till he 
knew whether the sums which he should advance, would be repaid 
to him by the deputy-lieutenants. The deputy-lieutenants, on the 
other hand, were a little shy of engaging for this money, till they 
should know, whether they could make it good from the county : 
and, on the part of the county, it was quickly replied, that the 
lieutenants would look in vain for repayment there : for that the 
sums in question were no article for a county rate, and in no 
county rate should they be admitted. Here the matter hung for 
some time, and here it might have hung still longer, if the deputy- 
lieutenants, weary of this slow return of correspondence, and 
impatient of further delay in a matter so important and urgent, 
had not resolved to take the risk upon themselves, and to direct 
the completion of the work, trusting that government would see 
them finally repaid. This, Government had engaged to do ; and 
the county of Norfolk might by that time, perhaps, be in posses- 
sion of its signals. But by whose fault had it happened, that it 
was not in possession of them sooner? It must fairly be said, not 
by the fault of any one. The striking feature of the case was, 
that with so great a delay, and such a succession of persons, no 
one could be found to whom the delay was imputable. The lieu- 
tenant of division could not be blamed, for not being willing to 
advance his money, till he knew by whom he was to be repaid. 
The deputy-lieutenants might well have been justified, had they 



108 DEFENCE OF THE COUNTRY, 

persisted in refusing to the last, to take upon themselves an 
expense which they had no means of recovering from the county. 
The county was w^ell warranted in insisting that this charge was 
one, which was incurred for the general safety, and which ought 
to be defrayed by a general tax. The Admiralty were not to 
blame for delaying to send officers, and commence the expenses 
of their establishment, till they should know^ that houses were 
ready to receive them. — But this successive justification of all the 
parties concerned in the measure, was the most complete condem- 
nation of the system to which it belonged. What must that sys- 
tem of proceeding be, in which, when- every party under it had 
done his duty, nine months could elapse, before the maritime 
counties were furnished with their establishment of signals 1 

With this example he might safely close his account of the 
conduct of the Honourable Gentlemen as persons fit to direct the 
energies, and call out the resources of the country, at a crisis like 
the present. The instance itself, as a circumstance in the situa- 
tion of the country, was now of no great importance; as it might 
be hoped, that by this time, or at least in about a month more, 
the evil was, or would be, at an end, and the maritime counties 
be prepared with their signals. But it was not so with the state 
of the army, and of the military force of the country. Here was 
not only a great misconduct, but a great national evil and danger, 
present and future. The Honourable Gentlemen had not only not 
provided an army, but had brought things to a state, in which, 
without some great change, it was impossible that an army should 
be provided. The army of reserve, the only channel of recruiting 
not yet dry, would soon, possibly, be dry likewise. It had yielded 
7000 men : it was doubtful how many more it had to yield. 
Whatever it gave to the army, was so much in diminution of its 
own numbers. How much might continue to ooze from it, in its 
decreased and decreasing state, was very uncertain ; not to men- 
tion the dreadful expense and ruinous example of those successive 
enrolments — this double bounty. At all events the supply, in this 
way, had necessarily a termination. It was an artificial, not a 
natural cascade. As a suppl}^ it must at last run out. When 
recruits should have entered from this army, equal to the original 
numbers, the measure was at an end. The army of reserve, 
therefore, could not be looked upon as a permanent mode of re- 
cruiting and reinforcing the army; and, in the meanwhile, by 
this and their other measures, ministers had laid the foundation of 
such dithculties, as would render it nearly impossible that any such 
mode should be devised in future. The probability was, that after 
yielding to the army a few more thousands, so much would just 
remain of the army of reserve, as would be sufficient to preserve 
the example of this anomalous force, and to make recruiting im- 



DEFENCE OF THE COUJ^TRY. 109 

possible by contributing, with the militia, to continue the high rate 
of bounties. 

In aid of all these mischiefs came the effect of the volunteer 
system, which, as the Honourable Gentlemen had managed it, 
whether by design or by mistake, locked up 400,000 men of the 
active population of the country. What a blow was here ! He 
was templed to call out to the Honourable Gentlemen, as the 
Roman Emperor did to his General, Redde mihi, Fare, legiones. 
Seventy thousand men and more, withdrawn from the supply of 
the army of reserve, by the militia ; and 400,000 men withdrawn 
from both militia and army of reserve by the volunteers; and the 
army of reserve, the only source for recruiting the army ; with 
what sort of men, and at what rate of recruiting, was the army 
likely to be supplied 'i 

All this as a future consideration, the Honourable Gentlemen 
thought nothing of. They had got, or thought they had got (they 
had in fact got no such thing), what was sufficient for present 
defence ; and, beyond that, they never thought of looking. Defence 
was their utmost horizon. All beyond was clouds and darkness. 
But to those, who did not wish to bound their views merely by 
that consideration, who thought that if the country ims to exist 
after the present dangers, it was of some consequence to consider 
what that existence was to be ; to such persons it would be a 
matter of anxiety to know% how the country was to proceed 
without the use of a disposable force, and if such a force should 
appear necessary or desirable, in what manner it was to be ob- 
tained. 

His ideas upon this subject had long since been declared, and 
he had not been able, by any subsequent reflection or inquiry, to 

fet beyond the notions which he had at first formed. His opinion 
ad been, and was, that, as a first step, there should be an universal 
abolition of the system of substitution. That all commutation for 
personal service (as commutation there must be) should be made 
by fixed fine, so as to render government the only recruiter in the 
market, without competition from militia, army of reserve, or any 
other service. That to meet, and co-operate with the effects of 
the advantage thus given, service, in the army, should be changed 
from life to term of years; drafting should be formally abolished; 
means possibly devised to render service in the West Indies less 
frequently necessary, and some other subordinate regulations 
adopted, calculated to give to the profession of a soldier advan- 
tages and attractions, additional to those, not inconsiderable ones, 
which it already had. With these things done, he was of opinion, 
that the condition of the country was not so changed, either as to 
the wealth or inclinations of the lower orders of its inhabitants, 
10 



no DEFENCE OF THE COUNTRY. 

as to make it impossible, that, upon a greatly increased population, 
the army should be recruited as in former times. He was by no 
means sure, that if these methods had been adopted at the time 
when they were first suggested (and still more if they had been 
adopted at a period soniewhat earlier), the army would not have 
been recruited, and the general defence of the country increased, 
even at this moment, far beyond what it had been by the boasted 
measure of the army of reserve. That it would be so in the end, 
there could not be the smallest doubt. In a comparison of these 
measures, the same distinction must be observed, as gentlemen, 
accustomed to planting, knew how to make between a sown and 
a planted tree : though the latter would have the advantage at the 
beginning, and it might be, for some few years, it was known 
which would outstrip the other at the long-run. 

But should the danger at any moment be such, as not to wait 
the gradual progress of recruiting, however successful ; or should 
the general success of recruiting, even in the new circumstances 
proposed, be less than he was willing to imagine, it would be then 
open to have recourse to compulsory measures ; but measures so 
chosen (that is to say, of which the abolition of substitution should 
make part), as to become a powerful stimulus to recruiting, 
instead of presenting any impediment to it. He was as little a 
friend to compulsory measures, where they could be avoided, as 
any other gentleman: but he would not court popularity, nor 
discredit his own judgment, by decrying them as unconstitutional 
He had shown, on a former occasion, together with several of 
his Honourable Friends, that so far from objecting factiously to 
any measure of government, or lying in wait to raise a cry against 
the Honourable Gentlemen, he was more ready than they had 
seemed to be, to brave that cry, in support of any measure of the 
sort alluded to, which the circumstances of the times might ren- 
der necessary.— These were his ideas of the measures to be 
adopted, for creating that first and most indispensable requisite in 
the present state of the world, as well for the sake of immediate 
safety, as with a view to the future condition of the empire, — a 
regular and disposable military force. Instead of this, the Honour- 
able Gentlemen seemed by their measures to be looking to any 
other force, rather than that of a regular army, the augmentation 
to which was as yet, by their own account, only 7000 men ; while 
by their general conduct they had brought the countiy to a state, 
in which, at the end of nine months, a line of cruisers, or (accord- 
ing to the expression of an old poet, whom he did not dare to 
quote in the original) " a single plank," was all that protected the 
country, he would not say, from the " grave," but from evils and 
dangers, of a magnitude not to be described. 



DEFENCE OF THE COUNTRY. HI 

Mr. Windham was replied to by Mr. Yorke (Secretary of State for the 
Home Department). Mr. Pitt recommended a further application of 500,OOOZ. 
to the Volunteer Service, in order to render it more efficient, by increasing 
the number of drills, and attaching a regular field-officer and adjutant to each 
battalion. Mr. T. Grenville and Mr. Fox concurred with Mr. Windham, and 
were answered by Lord Castlereagh and Mr. Addington (Chancellor of the 
Exchequer) ; after which the several resolutions on the estimates were put, 
and carried without a division. 



( 112 ) 

ADDITIONAL FORCE BILL. 

JUNE 5th, 1804. 

Mr. Pitt, ChanceHor of the Exchequer, laid before the house his plan for 
maintaining an Additional Force. Under this plan, the Army of Reserve and 
Militia were to be completed to their establishments; after which the latter 
force was to be reduced to 40,000 men, by transfers to tlie Regular Army ; 
and vacancies thus occasioned were to be supplied by further levies. The 
men were to be raised by ballot in the first instance, but if the person drawn 
should decline to serve, he should be allowed to fine, and the ballot should go 
on ; — and if no person should be found willing to serve, then the parish should 
be bound to provide the quota allotted to it, taking care, however, that no 
higher bounty should be given than was already fixed by law. This recruiting 
to take place under the direction of the parish officers. If men could not be 
found by them, the parish should be fined ; the fines carried to the general 
recruiting account, and the commanding officer of the district be empowered 
to raise the deficiencies by means of regular recruiting, paying the same boun- 
ties to the men thus raised as the parishes would have done. Mr. Pitt 
having stated the nature of his plan, and moved for leave to bring in a bill 
accordingly, 

Mr. Windham rose, and spoke to the following effect : 
I perfectly concur with the ideas of my Right Honourable 
Friend, so far as they regard the necessity of increasing our 
regular army, but I cannot help thinking, that the means which 
he proposes for that purpose, are very far from being likely to 
prove effectual. His plan, in this respect, resembles too closely 
the measures which have been pursued for some time past in this 
countiy. In many respects I confess that it differs from, and is 
much superior to, that hitherto acted upon. It is, notwithstanding, 
liable to considerable objections. 

Upon subjects of this kind nothing is more natural than that 
there should be differences of opinion. The plan proposed this 
evening is very different from that which was announced by my 
Right Honourable Friend some time since. This serves to show, 
that even within a short space of time my Right Honourable 
Friend himself has changed his mind upon the nature of his own 
project ; and unless he can change his mind still further upon this 
question, I can hardly flatter myself that I shall be able lo support 
him. Indeed, I much fear that our sentiments are fundamentally 
different, and that I must be one of those who will be compelled 
to resist the project which he has to offer. What the points are 



ADDITIONAL FORCE BILL. 113 

on which I must oppose it, I may more particularly explain upon 
a future occasion. At present I shall only state, and witli as much 
brevity as I can, the general fundamental principles which urge 
me to refuse my concurrence to some parts of this proposition. I 
say some, because there arc many parts, which to resist would be 
to resist myself — would be inconsistent with the sentiments I have 
repeatedly delivered in this house, and which I hold at present. I 
mean that particularly which relates to the reduction of the 
militia. This is an idea which I threw out long since, and which 
I must be proud to find seconded by the authority of my Right 
Honourable Friend. Although it must be recollected, that when 
first mentioned it was very much censured, yet now it appears to 
be generally recognised as a wise and eligible expedient. Another 
point of the plan of which I approve is, the rejection of the prin- 
ciple of substitution. I should have been very glad to have got 
rid of this principle upon the condition of commuting service for 
a fixed fine ; in which way certainly the evils of exorbitant boun- 
ties would have been avoided ; but I am much better satisfied to 
have compulsory service put an end to altogether. Both of these 
alterations therefore, namely, the reduction in the amount of the 
militia, and the abolition of compulsory service, I heartily approve 
of, and either expressly or by implication have long since recom- 
mended. I am also happy to understand, from my Right Honour- 
able Friend at the close of his speech, that it is his intention to 
bring forward a motion for a change in the condition of service 
in our regular army, by which I conceive him to mean, that men 
shall be enlisted for a certain term of years in lieu of the present 
custom. This, I think, and have always thought, a thing so 
desirable, that it was my determination, if it had not been taken 
up by any other member, to submit the question to the considera- 
tion of this house. I am glad to find that the idea seems to be 
adopted by an Honourable Gentleman who is so capable, from 
his situation and ability, of carrying it into effect. 

Having stated those parts of my Right Honourable Friend's 
intentions of which I approve, I now come to the less pleasant 
part of my duty, that of stating the points of which I disapprove. 
In the whole of the proposed proceeding for raising men, there is 
introduced an injudicious mixture of the voluntary and the com- 
pulsory, of which the latter strikes me to be much too strong. 
This was one motive of my resistance to the army of reserve 
bill, the principle of which is preserved in the plan under discus- 
sion; and I remember, that in the course of the arguments offered 
in favour of that bill, the principal ground relied upon by its advo- 
caf^s was, that it would go to raise a body within a short time, 
more effectually than could be done by any other method. This 
argument, as to expedition, which was founded on the circum- 
10* P 



114 ADDITIONAL FORCE BILL. 

stances of the moment, and which was made to overcome every 
consideration of i'uture advantage, cannot be used with any effect 
now. We now find ourselves in a state, in which what is called 
present emergency, can no longer operate to remove from our 
minds what is due to the consideration of consequences which 
may take place at subsequent periods. We are not now called 
upon to consult for the present only. We are at least in circum- 
stances in which we have a little pause and breathing: time to 
consider what is good for the country permanently, as well as for 
the present moment. If we were not, the plan proposed by my 
Right Honourable Friend, must be given up altogether, for with 
a view to present defence it does not promise to effect any thing. 
On the other hand, its provisions are, as I before observed, in a 
very considerable degree compulsory. If the danger to be guarded 
against were imminent, and that a levy were necessary immedi- 
ately, unquestionably a compulsory proceeding to obtain that levy 
might be the most effectual. Measures of that sort are undoubt- 
edly in their own nature the speediest and most certain in their 
operation. Nothing seems to be so sure and direct in a case 
where men are wanted, as to pass a law, by which men shall be 
forcibly taken. But here care is necessary, to consider the nature 
and constitution of the country in which such powers are to be 
exercised. What is good for Russia or Prussia may not be good 
for Great Britain. It is not that the power of enacting such laws 
is wanting in Great Britain. In every country, free or otherwise, 
there is a power that is supreme ; and that supreme power must, 
by the very description and name of it, be capable of enacting 
whatever laws it pleases. Whatever the King does in Prussia, or 
the Emperor in Russia, or the Grand Turk in Constantinople, or, 
what is still more, the Emperor of the Gauls in France, that may 
the King, Lords, and Commons, legally enact in Great Britain. 
But the question then comes not merely as to the propriety of such 
enactments, but as to the means of carrying them into execution, 
and according to those means will be the advantage that is to be 
expected from the measure. In a free country, therefore, in a 
country like this, where nothing is to be done but by regular 
authority, where every thing must be conducted according to law 
and even according to usage, where there must be a constant 
regard, not only to men's rights, but even to their feelings, measures 
of compulsion will often fail of their effect, and show themselves 
to be ill-chosen, when the same measures, in countries of a different 
description, would be confessedly the most advantageous and 
judicious. Where the constitution of things is such, that the power 
of the state can go straight to its object; where the sovereign, as 
in Russia, or as in old times in this country, can call upon his 
great lords, and they again can call upon their vassals ; where, 



ADDITIONAL FORCE BILL. 115 

as in Prussia possibly, he can send forth his recruiters, and with 
little ceremony take whatever men are fitted to his purpose, there 
compulsory measures, as they are unquestionably tiie most simple, 
so they probably are the most certain and efficacious : but the 
reverse may possibly be the case, where they are to be loaded 
with all the restrictions, exceptions, provisions, and modifications, 
which must be charged upon them in this country. In such a 
complicated system of movements, half the power of the machine 
is lost in overcoming the friction. 

These are the reasons why we must not conclude that a mea- 
sure which is good in one country, must be equally or proportion- 
ably so in another. A country and constitution like this, is not 
good for measures of this description. Our compulsion is not 
good compulsion. It has not the strength and flavour of that 
wl)ich is the growth of more congenial climes. It would not fol- 
low necessarily, even if it had, that it would be equally beneficial 
wdth us as in other places. Inquiry must always be made, agree- 
ably to what is the fact in the present instance, how the compul- 
sory measure is likely to operate on measures of voluntary 
exertion that are to be going forward at the same time. Inquiry 
must likewise be made whether the voluntary measures will not 
render the compulsory unnecessary ; for nobody, I suppose, wishes 
to have recourse to compulsory measures, if you can do without 
them. 

In the present instance, it happens both that the compulsory 
part, as there is all reason to think, is unnecessary, the voluntary 
being sufficient without it ; and that the voluntary will not be able 
to do its work, if the other is persisted in. All the parishes are 
to be called upon for a certain number of men, to enforce their 
production of which (so much is their inchnation doubted) a fine 
is to be levied upon such as fail to furnish their complement 
within a certain time. It is understood also, that the militia is to 
be suffered gradually to waste itself to a certain number, and that 
this difference is to be made good by men raised, in succession, 
in the way proposed, and who are to be transferred to this new 
army of reserve ; so that for the regular army, which is pro- 
fessed to be the main object in view, the stock which will be left 
for direct recruiting, will be those who remain after deducting the 
amount of the present militia. 

A hope, however, is entertained (and this is the great strength 
of the measure) that men when once detached from their original 
habits, and engaged in military life, will enlist in great numbers, 
from the force thus to be created. The fallacy of the arguments 
which make the foundation of this hope is obvious, for it may 
quite as well happen, that after men have so far caught the mili- 
tary spirit, (or rather so far lost the civil one,) as to resolve to 



116 ADDITIONAL FORCE BILL. 

continue soldiers, they should remain in the corps from which 
they derived this feeling, and continue on the home-service, as 
that they should enlist into regiments destined to serve abroad. 
If, however, some men should so enter, as it is presumed that 
many will, there is no reason to expect the number to be greater 
than will be necessary to compensate those, who, having origin- 
ally been disposed to a military life, and being persons, who, if 
no such limited force had oflered, would have engaged for gene- 
ral service, will now be satisfied with the experiment they have 
made, will have sown their wild oats, and either return to their 
former employments, or, at least, continue in that species of 
service in which they find themselves placed. I am not an advo- 
cate, therefore, for providing in greater abundance such species 
of force. I do not want to multiply the opportunities by which 
men, having a militaiy turn and disposed to betake themselves to 
a soldier's life, may be drawn into services in which that propen- 
sity will be only half-indulged, and, in which, in quite as small 
a proportion, the public service will be promoted. I have the 
strongest objections to this new-fangled scheme of dividing our 
public force into two parts — of crippling tliat part which is dis- 
posable, and increasing that which is not, in the ill-grounded hope 
of providing, through the latter, an augmentation for the former. 
This is the modern, indirect, circuitous, and fallacious mode of 
recruiting the army. 

It appears now, that the propriety of abandoning the balloting 
system is admitted, and, in lieu of a ballot, my Honourable Friend 
proposes to raise men in another way ; he means to commit the 
recruiting to parish officers. I will not say that this is not an 
improvement compared to the mode pursued of late, which, be- 
sides being so griev^ously oppressive to individuals, interfered so 
materially with the supply of the regular army by high boun- 
ties, &c. ; but yet I would not be understood to believe that the 
plan before the house, will not operate considerably in the same 
way. For although the amount of bounty to be paid by the 
parish officers is limited in form, we can have no security that 
that bounty will not be generally exceeded. Those officers could 
have no particular motive for economy, and they must have a 
strong wish to save their parishes from the proposed fine. This 
wish will naturally render them anxious to procure men, and 
ready, if necessary, to give an advanced bounty. From this, all 
the evils complained of under the army of reserve act respecting 
high bounties are, in their degrees, likely to recur; for no sum 
short of the fine will of course be scrupled, so as to avoid the 
penalty, by raising the complement of men. Some parishes may, 
from pride, even exceed the fine in the allowance of bounty, rather 
than not bring forward their quota. 



ADDITIONAL FORCE BILL. 117 

A great deal has been said, now and upon former occasions, 
about the hopes to be formed from individual exertion ; but this 
appears to me to be altogether imaginary. Nothing can be con- 
ceived more helpless than an unfortunate countryman, who, in 
the midst of his day's work, or at his return home tired in the 
evening, is told that a ballot has taken place, and that he is one 
of the unlucky number upon whom the lot has fallen. If he does 
not happen to be insured, by being a member of an association- 
club, he is as much struck down by the news, as he would be by 
a stroke of the apoplexy. His first resource is probably to vent 
his complaints among his neighbours ; but finding that this is but 
of little avail, and being told by some one of a substitute that has 
been heard of in a parish not far distant, he sets out on his mis- 
sion, roaming about, like David Simple, looking for a true friend, 
In this way he wanders on, from house to house, and from village 
to village, spending his money, losing his time, tiring his horse 
(or his neighbour's horse, as the case may be,) filling the ale- 
houses with his complaints, but helping to empty them of their 
beer, till good fortune or good advice directs him to one of those 
obnoxious, but, in these cases, necessary personages, called a 
crimp. There, at least, his labour ends ; and, by the'help of some 
forty or fifty guineas, he is enabled to procure a recruit for the 
service, and an exemption for himself; at least, until the recruit 
shall happen to run away. 

The same thing, with circumstances in a slight degree varying, 
must happen in the case of the parish officers. What means upon 
earth have the parish officers to get men, but those which they 
ought not to have? This, measure, therefore, which among its 
other professions, professes to abolish crimping, will go, if I am 
not mistaken, to extend and establish that system. I may almost 
say, it is to be hoped that it will ; for if the parish officers do not 
supply themselves in that way, it is to be feared that they must 
have recourse to more exceptionable methods. What is the de- 
scription of persons to whom they will first apply ? and what 
will be the situation of any of those persons, should the applica- 
tion not be successful ? A man dependent on the parish, or in a 
situation of life to be charged with petty offences, will not fare, it 
is to be apprehended, very well, should the officers and principal 
proprietors of the parish have deemed him a fit person to serve 
His Majesty, and he by chance not be disposed to concur in that 
opinion. Let him take care how he applies, on his own account, 
or that of any of his family, for parish relief; how he is seen 
after dusk stepping aside from the foot-path, near any of his wor- 
ship's plantations. Without saying to what degree these powers 
will be abused, it is sufficient to know that the bill holds out the 
strongest temptation to such abuse; nay, that its very hopes of 



118 ADDITIONAL FORCE BILL. 

success seem to be founded on that supposition : for if the parish 
officers are not to avail themselves of the powders which their 
office gives them, what advantages, I must again ask, have they 
for recruiting beyond what are possessed by all other men 1 For 
what purpose then, it is to be inquired, are these consequences in- 
curred ? for increasing the regular army 1 Not a man in the first 
instance is obtained for the regular army. All these compulsory 
means produce nothing but soldiers for home-service. To engage 
them afterwards for more valuable service, we depend on the 
operation of bounties. Our forcing-pumps will carry the water 
only to reservoirs of a certain height ; from thence it must be 
removed, to the level at which it is wanted, by machinery of 
another kind. 

The idea comes then to be considered, founded on the supposi- 
tion that a force of this limited nature is to exist and to be made 
the instrument of recruiting the regular army, — of attaching par- 
ticular regiments of one service to particular regiments of the 
other, so as to give to each regiment of the line a peculiar and 
appropriate source of recruiting, in the battalion of the army of 
reserve that is attached to it. From this arrangement great ad- 
vantages are expected, such as we have heard set forth with all 
the embellishments of my Honourable Friend's eloquence. It is 
the great foundation on which our hopes of giving effect to the plan 
of a stationary force as a means of recruiting the regular army, 
are made to rest. But of this arrangement, it must be observed, 
that while it affects by its form to be something positive, and to 
confer powers not before possessed, it is, in truth, nothing but re- 
striction and prohibition, principles merely negative, and by 
which, in the first instance, powers must alv^^ays be taken away, 
instead of being given. When you say that all who shall enlist 
from the army of reserve shall enter severally into such and such 
regiments, it is the same as to say, they shall enter into no other, 
— a regulation of which the prohibitory part is far more extensive 
than the enacting, and which, in the first instance, therefore, is 
calculated rather to diminish the numbers of those who may enter 
than to increase them. There is little doubt that such will be its 
final effect. By establishing that connexion which this plan has 
in view, such a provincial character may, it is possible, be im- 
printed upon certain corps, as may create motives for entering 
into the service which would not otherwise exist, and by which 
men will be gained who would otherwise remain in the home- 
battalions, or would not enter the service at all. But against this 
must be set the chance that this provincial character will, in innu- 
merable instances, never be established ; and that when it is, it 
will not, by any xneans, produce effects equal to the disadvantage 
of the restriction, by which alone it can be brought about. To 



ADDITIONAL FORCE BILL. 119 

make a corps provincial, you must secure to it exclusively the re- 
cruiting of the corresponding battalion ; in other words, you must 
deny to the men of that battalion, the privilege of choosing the 
corps into which they would wish to enter. When you have 
done all this, such may be, from various causes, the necessity of 
supplying this corps from other quarters, of making good its losses 
by other means than those of its own recruiting fund, that its 
provincial character may be wholly lost,' or, at least, but very 
imperfectly traced ; and after all, it is to be considered what this 
character will do, estimating its effects according to the present 
state of society, and the motives which in general influence those 
who enter the army as soldiers. The bond of local or county 
connexion is far less strong than it was in this country forty or 
fifty years ago. A thousand motives will operate with men in the 
choice of a regiment more powerful than their attachment to the 
name of their county, or even than their desire of finding in the 
regiment those provincial properties which it may really possess. 
A man would be disposed to enter, but that the regiment to which 
he must now be confined is abroad, and he wants to stay at 
home ; or is at home, and he is desirous of seeing the world, or 
has an ardour for service, and would wish to go abroad. The 
regiment is in Canada, or Nova Scotia, and he wishes to go 
to Gibraltar ; is in a hot country, and he wishes for a cold one : 
or vice versa.. For county connexion he cares nothing, having 
left the county when he was a boy ; but by entering with the re- 
cruiting party now in town, he shall go where he may hope to 
see again his old sweetheart, Bet such-a-one, or be in a corps 
with the comrade with whom he worked in London, who is now 
a Serjeant, and may have the means, perchance, of making him 
a corporal. 

Such are the motives that dictate the choice of particular regi- 
ments among private soldiers ; and, so far as they operate, this 
regulation will prove injurious. It will prove injurious, too, in the 
case of another class of men, be they more or less numerous, 
those whom my Right Honourable Friend has particularly dwelt 
on, with a view to the discipline which he hopes to establish in 
these second battalions. If, says he, a man by idleness or miscon- 
duct should incur the displeasure of his officers, he cannot hope 
to escape them or to secure impunity, by enlisting into the regu- 
lar army. He will go into a corps where his character will be 
sure to accompany him, and where he will meet, or be followed 
by, those very officers to whom his good or ill conduct will be 
known. It is amazing that my Right Honourable Friend did not 
see, that this was a reason why he would not go into the corps at 
all, and not being at liberty to take any other, would remain to 
the end of his term where he was. In this instance therefore, at 



120 ADDITIONAL FORCE BILL. 

least, the regulation in question will not do much: whatever 
advantages it may have with respect to discipline, it will not ad- 
vance much the recruiting for the regular army. I see on the 
whole nothing in this plan, for which so many fair promises have 
been made, that is likely to have any other eflect than to produce 
a large stationary force to be confined to this countiy. 

With respect to expense, considering that the measure does, in 
the first instance, fix the rate of bounty higher than has ever yet 
been known as paid by government, that the parishes will not be 
restrained within the rate so fixed, and that, whatever is ultimate- 
ly given by the parishes, more must of necessity be given to men 
entering for general service, it will be impossible not to see, that 
in this view also, the measure must produce effects the most inju- 
rious, and that it holds a distinguished place in that system, which 
in less than forty years has raised the price of a recruit in this 
country from a guinea, to the enormous amount at which we now 
see it. Such have been the glorious fruits of a system of ballot- 
ing, followed up by the principle of commuting personal service 
for service by substitute ! 

Much has been said by my Right Honourable Friend and 
others of the influence of a general military spirit in the country, 
and the propriety of promoting it. Upon this point I must say, 
that my opinion has always been, however paradoxical it may 
appear, that to put a nation in a state in which every man was a 
soldier, was not the way to make a military nation, or to carry 
the military strength of a country to its greatest height. A country 
in which every man is a soldier, is a country in which no man is 
a soldier. A system, such as is now proposed, would rather serve 
to damp and deaden than to encourage and animate the military 
spirit. It is a great mistake to suppose, that the military spirit of 
a country is cherished and kept alive by those only who appear 
in the military character themselves. The ?m-military part of the 
community contribute quite as much to this, and in a manner 
hardly less direct. They are the spectators or audience, without 
whom the piece would no more be performed than it would with- 
out the actors. We need go no further for a proof of this, than 
to inquire what the influence is, in promoting the military spirit, 
of that half of the community, which certainly takes no part in 
the service, namely, the women. In France formerly, a man 
would hardly have been spoken to, in the female world, who, not 
being engaged by some other profession, had passed his youth 
without service in the army. What more was necessary ? A 
country in that state is a military country, let its military estab- 
lishments be what they may. And the fact, in this instance, per- 
fectly corresponds with the theory ; for if we look round the 
world, it will be found that the miHtary countries are not those in 



ADDITIONAL FORCE BILL. 121 

which, by the constitution, every man is enrolled as a soldier; 
but the contrary. France, the most military country, has nothing 
but its army. Prussia, Russia, Austria, in like manner. Even 
Switzerland, if it may be considered as military, was not so in 
virtue qf its militia, but in consequence of the number of its inhab- 
itants who had served in foreign armies. On the other hand, in 
America, and in the little state of Geneva, if that may be reckon- 
ed, though neither certainly were considered as military states, 
every man was in some way or other a soldier. The reason of 
this is not difficult to be traced, and may be considered as two- 
fold : first, states not much engaged in wars, and with whom, 
therefore, on this very account, the military spirit is not likely to 
run high, will resort to the system of militia, town guards, pro- 
vincial enrolments, and other establishments of that sort, in which 
numbers are to make up for quality; and secondly, the very 
existence of such establishments, instead of exalting, will tend to 
abate whatever military feeling there might otherwise be. It can 
never be of advantage to that feeling to familiarize men to the 
contemplation o-f soldiers separated from those conditions which 
make the character respectable. An army merely defensive, and 
that can from the nature of it but rarely see danger, is deprived 
at the outset of that which forms the real and vital principle of 
those sentiments which the military character is calculated to 
inspire. It will, moreover, rarely be found to be a good army. 
Yet, upon these all the military distinctions, insignia, and decora- 
tions, are lavished in as great profusion, as upon troops in which 
the military character is complete. We may see how the fact is 
in that respect at the present moment in our own country, but 
we do not seem to be at all sensible of what are likely to be the 
effects. The volunteers have clothes as fine, feathers as high, 
music of as martial a character, decorations of all sorts as cap- 
tivating and imposing as those of the regular troops. If we con- 
tinue to pursue this course, diffusing this lustre of military dis- 
tinctions on that which is not military, and obscuring and eclips- 
ing the regular army, there is danger, that the real military 
character may not only be enfeebled but destroyed. If you will 
resort to a contrary course, the true military spirit may again 
revive, and operating generally and powerfully, like the air we 
breathe, resume before long its proper influence, and produce its 
natural effects. 

If, in thus objecting to the plans submitted by my Right Honour- 
able Friend and others, I should be asked, whether I had any 
plan of my own to propose, I should answer, none ; nor do I think 
any necessary. The only change I desire at present, is, to abol- 
ish the plans lately adopted, and, in the system of the army, to 
enlist men for a certain term of years, instead of the practice 
II Q 



122 ADDITIONAL FORCE BILL. 

which now prevails of enlisting men for life. Let things, in other 
respects, go on as formerly, and there will not, I apprehend, be 
any reason to complain. I cannot see why all the machinery of 
law should be set to work upon our established military system. 
My only wish is to have it released from that machinery — to 
have all the obstructions in its way removed. 

A great medical writer, of the last century, has laid down a 
maxim for the conduct of the understanding in matters of science, 
which may be applied with little variation to the regulation of 
men's conduct in civil and practical life. Vera cernit qui aliena 
rejicit. Truth will appear as soon as you get rid of error. Af- 
fairs will often proceed perfectly well, if you will only remove 
the impediments and obsfructions that are turning them from their 
proper course. Something analogous to this idea is what I 
should recommend upon the subject before the house. With good 
management, I am quite sure that men enough could be found in 
this country for the ample recruiting of our regular army. There 
is no scarcity of population. On the contrary, it is far more con- 
siderable than at any former period ; and there can be no doubt 
that with the aid of proper encouragement and countenance, by 
the grant of certain privileges and immunities to those who had 
served in the army, such as are granted with sufficient liberality 
to all who have served in the militia, (viz. the right of setting up 
trades in corporate towns, &c.) and in general by securing to the 
army its proper proportion of the benefits attached to other modes 
of life, a supply would be found of men willing to become soldiers, 
as ample and as well proportioned to the demand, as of men 
ready to engage in any other trade or calling. I cannot believe 
it possible that there should not, when I reflect that the poors' rates 
of this country amount annually, according to the account on the 
table, to 5,000,000/. and when I recollect the extraordinary mea- 
sure lately taken in Scotland, the policy of which, by-the-by, I 
very much doubt, of granting such a large sum of money for the 
construction of a canal, in order to give employment to the poor 
of that district, and to prevent their emigration to a foreign coun- 
try. This idea of laying a tax for the purpose of providing em- 
ployment for a particular class of persons, I cannot but consider 
as a real poor rate. It is accordingly liable to all the objections 
chargeable upon measures of that description. I mention it here 
for the purpose of showing, that the prospect for recruiting our 
army is by no means discouraging, either on the score of our 
population, or (unhappily) of the state in which a great part of 
that population is placed. But I am then told of our trade, and 
the numbers employed in various branches. I have, however, 
no hesitation in saying, that trade is favourable to recruiting, and 
not less so perhaps in its flourishing and growing than in its decli- 



ADDITIONAL FORCE BILL. 123 

ning state. It is rarely that trade can advance rapidly without 
great fluctuations, the trade receding in one channel as it flows 
into another ; and thus numbers are successively left out of em- 
ployment, and glad to betake themselves for subsistence to the 
provision which the army otlers. From these considerations I 
can see no foundation for the endeavours so often made to ascribe 
to scarcity of population the ditiiculty which recruiting for the 
regular army has met with for some time back. Let us try to 
strip that recruiting of the iuipediments which have hitherto sur- 
rounded it ; and there is no reason whatever why we should de- 
spair of seeing it go on well. At all events let the experiment be 
fairly tried. No one surely would wish to have recourse to mea- 
sures of compulsion in the first instance. When measures of 
another sort have been tried and have failed ; when we have em- 
ployed, without effect, the plain, obvious, and ordinary methods, 
then will be time enough to resort to the harshness of compulsory 
measures, and such strange, wiFd, and new-fangled projects as 
that which is now proposed. 

Upon the whole I cannot persuade myself to assent to a pro- 
position that has no immediate object but to form a stationary and 
half military force ; and no tendency to increase our regular army 
but through the medium of a process from which I have no hopes 
— by a kind of double distillation, of which no one has hitherto 
shown either the use or the necessity. A notion seems to prevail, 
that a soldier is a thing that cannot be produced by one continued 
act; — that there must be a second operation. We create this 
army of men for limited service, as a kind of false stomach in 
which the aliment is to be lodged for a time, till it can be 
removed to its proper receptacle, and there finally elaborated for 
the use and sustenance of the state. Of the whole of this plan 
the house has heard enough before. Experiments have been 
already made upon many parts of it, and certainly not with such 
success as to encourage a perseverence in the system. But nothing 
will deter us. There is a perfect passion for legislating upon this 
subject, and for effecting every thing by the most complicated 
and circuitous means. My Honourable Friend seems to be actu- 
ated by the same sort of feeling as that of the lover in the Appren- 
tice, who, when he is to escape with his mistress, will not suffer 
her to go out by the street-door, though he is told it is open, but 
insists upon her descending from the window, by the means of 
his ladder of ropes. It -is in vain that the maid protests that the 
door is open, and her mistress has nothing to do Ijut to walk down 
the great stairs. Oh no ! says he, but what then becomes of my 
rope ladder ? Such is in truth the language of the present moment. 
In all this multiplication of plans, I repeat, that very little is to be 
found congenial with the true military system of the country. 



124 ADDITIONAL FORCE BILL. 

Every thing that has yet been brought forward on the subject has 
proved to be extravagant, and calculated to produce the opposite 
of good towards the substantial defence of the country ; and of 
the same nature I am persuaded will the plan be which the house 
has just heard. I am ready to say that no man is more compe- 
tent to devise a plan requiring great combination of parts, than 
my Honourable Friend ; but my persuasion on this subject is, 
that no such plan is necessary ; on the contrary, that it must be 
injurious, particularly when founded on the principles of the sys- 
tem for some time back acted upon ; and therefore I feel it my 
duty to express my disapprobation of the project he has submitted 
to the house. 

After some further objections had been urged against the proposed measure 
by Mr. Addington, Mr. Fox, and other members, who were replied to by Lord 
Castlereagh and Mr. Pitt, the bill was brought in, and read a first time. 



( 125 ) 
MR. PITT'S FUNERAL. 

JANUARY 27th, 1806. 

Mr. H. Lascelles moved an address to His Majesty that he would be 
pleased to give directions that the remains of the Right Honourable William 
Pitt be interred at the public charge, and a monument be erected to his 
memory in Westminster Abbey. This motion having been seconded by the 
Marquis of Titchfield, supported by Mr. J. H. Browne, Lord Louvaine, Mr, 
Hiley Addington, Sir R. Buxton, General Tarlton and Earl Temple, and 
opposed by Lord Folkstone, Mr. William Smith, and the Marquis of Douglas, 

Mr. Windham rose and spoke as follows: — 

However painful I may feel the situation in which I stand, I 
feel that there is a duty imposed upon me that I am bound to dis- 
charge. Nothing can be more easy and satisfactory, than to com- 
ply with that advice which has been given to all parties, not to 
let their political hostilities be carried to the grave, and that on 
such an occasion as this, they should bury all animosities. For 
my part, the only difficulty I should find in complying v^ith this 
advice is, that I have no political animosities to bury. Although 
I join sincerely in admiration of the great talents of the Right 
Honourable Gentleman who is now no more, yet I think that 
those talents cannot be said to have been' fortunate in the result, 
and I must observe, that by the custom of this country, and, in- 
deed, by the custom of every nation, at all times, these extraor- 
dinary honours are only conferred where there is a certain union 
of merit and success. This should not be regarded as a mere 
question of feeling, but it should be considered whether the 
honours proposed to be granted are customary, or whether they 
are strictly merited. There is a sort of fortitude on which men 
sometimes pride themselves, — the fortitude of bearing well the 
pain of others: there is a sort of generosity also, that loves to 
indulge itself at the expense of others' feelings: let us take care 
in the present case, that we are not indulging our generosity at 
the expense of our public duties. 1 know of no function requiring 
to be discharged under a sense of more solemn obligation than 
that which relates to the adjudication of national honours ; these 
are claims not to be decided by a momentary feeling, but by a 
strict and impartial examination of the merits of the case. 

Let us understand the nature of the proceeding in which we 
are engaged ; let us know upon what ground the supporters of 

li* 



126 MR. PITT'S FUNERAL. 

this motion mean to rely. Do they mean to say that the greatest 
honours that the nation has to bestow, should be always given to 
splendid talents exerted in the service of the country ; or would 
they mean to make a distinction, and only give them to men of 
great talent, who happened to be in public offices? It appears to 
me, however, that great talents, exerted in the service of the 
country, are as well entitled to a high reward, if the possessor 
should not happen to have been in public office, as if he had. Let 
us see how far this principle leads : it is said, you give the chief 
honours of the nation to those naval and military commanders 
who gain important victories ; and why not to those who guide 
their operations? Must not their talents be presumed, at least, as 
great ? Now, Sir, this can be easily answered. An important 
victory is generally a thing that admits of no dispute, no decep- 
tion. The general who routs an enemy's army, or the admiral 
who destroys his fleet, leaves no doubt as to the service that he 
has performed, and is therefore, by the unanimous opinion of every 
body, considered as an object of high honour. When, on a late 
occasion, those honours were paid to an illustrious admiral,* all 
ranks and descriptions of people, the noble and the mean, the rich 
and the poor, the enlightened and the ignorant, all felt equally that 
those honours were due, and every heart vibrated to the general 
expression of national gratitude and respect. No man can mis- 
state or misrepresent such actions as those ; they are not brought 
forward to answer any party views, or upon false pretences. It 
is for these reasons that there is a general concurrence in all 
countries to reward services of that description. Upon services 
of such a nature there is always almost an absolute unanimity of 
opinion ; but how can it be expected that there will be any thing 
like an unanimity of opinion, when the question is concerning the 
merits of a long political life? It is for this reason that all nations 
make a distinction between the rewards given to a successful 
commander, and to the minister under whom he has gained his 
success. 

But if it be said that transcendent abilities, long and important 
services, long experience, and application of the mind to the im- 
portant interests of the country, should claim as high a reward 
as is given to the most successful admirals or generals, I shall 
then ask, where were all those qualities and endowments more 
conspicuous than in the late Mr. Burke ? Mr. Burke, however, 
was not honoured with a public funeral. And yet Mr. Burke was 
inferior to no man in the splendour of his talents, nor in the purity 
of his mind, nor in genuine and disinterested patriotism, nor in 
long experience and devotion to the public service. Where then 

* Lord Nelson. 



MR. PITT'S FUNERAL. 127 

is the difference of the cases f Do Gentlemen mean to rest it 
entirely upon this, that men of splendid talents and endowments, 
if they happen to be in ollice, are entitled to the highest rewards 
a nation can bestow ; but should they be out of oiiice, they are 
not entitled to honours, although they should serve their country 
with equal zeal, integrity, and ability? In general I should say, 
that the presumptions were in favour of him who had served his 
country out of otfice, oilicial situations being those which men 
may covet from other motives. In every point of comparison 
that could be made, Mr. Burke stood upon the same level with 
Mr. Pitt, and I do not see the reason for this difference. If the 
objections to Mr. Burke's having a public funeral had proceeded 
from my Honourable Friend (Mr. Fox), or those who voted with 
him in those times, I should not have been surprised : they might 
have conceived that bestowing such honours on a man who differ- 
ed diametrically with them in opinion at that time, would imply 
a condemnation of their own conduct. But that was not the case ; 
it was not from them that the objection came, but from Gentle- 
men on the other side of the House, who took Mr. Bm-ke as the 
leader of their opinions, who cried him up to the skies, who found- 
ed themselves upon what he had done, but who were afraid, that 
if they consented to such honours, it would appear as if they 
approved of all the sentiments of that great man, some of which 
were, perhaps, of too high a tone for them to relish. They, there- 
fore, would not, at that time, have agreed to a resolution which 
would have declared Mr. Burke an excellent statesman. 

When the French revolution broke out, it not only bi'oke up 
the whole system of European politics, but it broke up, at the 
same time, many of the dearest connexions which had united 
men in ties of private, as well as political friendships. I then 
differed upon that subject materially from the opinion of my 
Honourable Friend (Mr. Fox), and being, in a great measure, 
induced by the authority, and pressed indeed by the instigation, 
of the great man I have mentioned (Mr. Burke), I connected my- 
self with the administration of which Mr, Pitt was at the head. 
It is not to be supposed, that because I joined his administration, 
that I necessarily approved of every part of his system. The 
question with me was, whether, upon the whole, the forming that 
connexion was not the most likely way to promote those objects, 
which, in my opinion, w^ere desirable to be obtained. Whether 
in so doing, I judged right or wrong, or whether now, after the 
event, my opinion remains the same as it was before, are questions 
that are of little consequence. If I were to divide the whole of 
the political life of the distinguished person here spoken of, into 
two distinct periods, one the period before the breaking out of the 
French revolution, and the other the period subsequent to that 



128 MR. PITT'S FUNERAL. 

event, and that I were called to declare, whether I thought that 
either, separately, or both conjointly, were of a sort to call for 
the honours now proposed, or to justify the character ascribed in 
the resolution, of an " excellent statesman," I must say, no. I have 
no wish to bring forward my opinion in that respect at the present 
moment ; but, when compelled to declare myself, I must say what 
I think. I cannot consent to pronounce an opinion diilerent from 
what I think the true one, and thus to contribute to mislead both 
the present time and posterity on a period of our history which 
it is most important for them to judge rightly of. With the lullest 
acknowledgment both of the talents and virtues of the eminent 
man in question, I do not think, from whatever cause it has pro- 
ceeded, that his life has been beneficial to his country. For the 
earlier part of it, including the commencement of his power, I 
must contradict every principle, that I ever maintained, if I said 
that it was so. For the succeeding period, the greatest in which 
a statesman was ever called to act, I cannot say, that he acted 
his part greatly. I do not judge merely from the event ; though 
the event, for the present purpose, might be all that need be con- 
sidered. The French revolution was, indeed, a storm, in which 
vessels, the best foi'med and conducted with the greatest skill, 
might easily founder: but, what I mean to say is, that, in my 
opinion, the vessel was not conducted with the greatest skill, and 
that it is, in all human probability, to the fault of the pilot, that 
we are to ascribe our present fearful situation. This is no new 
opinion on my part : I must think so, if I think, as I have always 
professed to do, with the other great man that I have alluded to, 
Mr. Burke. 

I think it necessary to say thus much, in order to free myself 
from a supposed charge of inconsistency, in denying, generally, 
the merits of a minister, with whom for a considerable time, I 
had acted. But all that would result from this denial is, that the 
parts, in which I agreed, did not outweigh, in my opinion, those 
in which I differed. I have stated, however, already, that even 
in those parts in which I agreed, my agreement was only quali- 
fied. I agreed, as with respect to my Honourable Friends near 
me, from whom I totally diflered ; but, as with respect to the 
opinion of Mr. Burke, I must be considered as widely difiering. 

I repeat, that I feel it painful to oppose the motion ; but, I must 
say, that honours, of such a nature as is now proposed, ought not 
to be given hastily, from any momentary feeling, but from a full 
conviction on the part of each person who consents to them, that 
they are strictly merited, not by the possession merely of talents 
and virtues, but by great and essential services, I'endered, and 
acknowledged to have been rendered, to the state. Can this be 
stated to be the case in the present instance ? An Honourable 



MR. PITT'S FUNERAL. 129 

Gentleman (Mr. Hawkins Browne) has cited tlie flourishing state 
of the finances and commerce of the country, compared with 
what they were twenty years ago, as a decisive proof of wiiat 
we owe to the eminent statesman that we have lost. But, woe 
betide us, if, in these times, we measure the prosperity of the 
country by its riches. When Honourable Gentlemen talk of our 
riches, we must ask how long we can be sure of enjoying them ? 
* Three thousand ducats a year, and but a year in all those ducats!' 
The prosperity of a country is to be estimated like a West-India 
estate, not by its annual produce, but by its fee-simple. What 
did any one think of the value of an estate in the West-Indies, 
at the moment when Admiral Villeneuve was reigning triumphant 
in those seas ; and, till the illustrious hero, whose funeral we lately 
celebrated, had arrived to drive him back? 

My great objection to granting the honours now demanded, is 
this : it has not been the usage of this country, or of mankind in 
general, to grant the highest rewards, unless in cases where merit 
has been crowned with success. Of the many admirals who 
have been rewarded with the peerage, in every instance there 
was a certain share of success as well as of merit. If Lord St. 
Vincent had lost half of his fleet in the action with the Spaniards, 
or Lord Nelson been defeated, either at the battle of the Nile, or 
oflT Trafalgar, although the highest exertion of courage and talents 
had been proved, the same rewards would not have been given. 
Lord Nelson displayed as much courage and enterprise at the 
unsuccessful attack of Teneriffe as in those glorious victories ; 
but if he had lost his life at Tenerifle, it can hardly be supposed, 
that he would have been honoured with such a funeral as was 
given to him when he fell in the arms of victory. Now, as to the 
success of Mr. Pitt, it must be allowed that the change in the state 
of this country and of Europe, during his time, has been most 
fatal, and that the last periods of his life have been most disastrous. 
Can we, in the face of these facts, in the midst of the very ruin, 
which his last measures have brought on ; whether by his fault 
or not, I do not enquire ; decree the highest honours, that a grate- 
ful nation can render in return for the most distinguished services? 
The character of these measures, and still more the general 
merits of his political life, can they now be discussed ? and should 
we not be complained of, were we now to attempt it, not only as 
opening a subject more proper for history than for a debate, but 
as cruelly raking up the ashes of the dead, now newly consigned 
to the tomb l The honours which are now proposed, are such as 
the whole history of our country does not afford a parallel instance 
of, except in the case of his illustrious father. The services, how- 
ever, that the great Lord Chatham had rendered to the country, 
and the success of his measures, were such as were never denied 
R 



130 MR. PITT'S FUNERAL. 

by anybody ; and therefore the resolution which might be strictly 
applicable to the father, and which in that case was carried unani- 
mously, stands in fatal contrast to the administration of his son ; 
which, in all its later periods, was eminently unsuccessful, and 
which very many considered as meriting disapprobation. 

For these reasons, I think we should exercise the great and 
solemn privilege we possess with the most mature deliberation, 
and that we should not, contrary to the usual practice of this and 
every other country, give the highest honours of the state to mark 
the memory of a minister, who, though possessing talents as great 
as ever appeared in any age of the world, a character and frame 
of mind fitted for every thing most arduous, and feeling, as must 
have been the case, a strong desire that the country should prosper 
in his hands, was unsuccessful in the result, and will not, I fear, 
be recorded to posterity, as having advanced the real interests and 
the character of the country. 

, After Mr. Windham had concluded his speech, Mr. Ryder, Mr. Rose, Lord 
Castlereagh, and Mr. Wilberforce spoke in favour of the motion ; Mr. Pon- 
sonby and Mr. Fox against it. The House then divided, and the numbers 
vi^ere: 

For the motion 258 

Against it 89 

Majority 169 



( 131 ) 

MR. PITT'S DEBTS. 

FEBRUARY 3d, 1806. 

Mr. Cartwright moved, " That an humble address be presented to His 
Majesty, to represent to His Majesty that this House having received informa- 
tion, that, on the death of the late Right Honourable William Pitt, he left 
debts to a considerable amount, for the payment of which his property was 
found insufficient, and being desirous to show every testimony of their esteem 
and respect for the memory of the said Right Honourable William Pitt, most 
humbly beseech His Majesty to advance a sum not exceeding 40,000Z. towards 
the payment of the said debts, and to assure His Majesty, that this House 
will make good the same." Mr. Bootle, having seconded the motion, 

Mr. Windham felt satisfaction in thinking that it was as easy 
to concur in this vote, as it was difficult for him to agree to that 
which was proposed a few nights since. Every thing that related 
to great talents, long services, and those abilities that were orna- 
ments to the country, demanded and received his approbation. 
The present motion had his assent, as it fell within the distinction 
he had already drawn respecting public honours and munificence. 
It called for no vote of approbation in favour of an individual for 
the whole of a long and varied course of public measures and 
public conduct, in contradiction to the opinions held or expressed 
by any gentleman, on various occasions, in the course of that 
public career. No man had a right to call on another for any 
approbation of that nature, and he felt that every man so attempted 
to be called upon, had an undoubted right to complain. In viewing 
the character of the deceased, no one could ascribe to him any 
low attachment to pecuniary gain ; his mind was above such con- 
siderations ; his conceptions had too much grandeur to admit of 
any thing of that kind. He did not think that any dangerous 
precedent was set by this measure. If these debts had been con- 
tracted by profusion and excess, by dissipation and vain luxuries, 
they might admit of a question. On the contrary, they were con- 
tracted by no lavish expenditure, no useless ostentation. The 
great character of Mr. Pitt's mind was too sterling to descend to 
those means of prodigality ; and he even neglected what, in these 
times, was due to the situation he filled. He had an entire supe- 
riority to any thing of the nature of aflTectation. His salary was 
not enough to provide the indulgencies fit for his station, and the 
consequence was seen in the incurring of these debts. Insufficiency 



132 MR. PITT'S DEBTS. 

of salary, want of pecuniary attention, and the necessary impo- 
sitions to which he was exposed, must have combined to embar- 
rass his affairs. He therefore considered, that, in the part the 
House were now called upon to act, they were not indulging 
themselves in an improper sentiment of liberality, nor catching at 
any transient reputation of magnanimity, nor wasting the public 
money; nor should he think that the case, even were they to 
make some provision for those who were most near and dear to 
the deceased. 

The motion was assented to by Mr. Ponsonby, Lord Folkstone, Mr. Rose, 
the Marquis of Douglas, Mr. Fox, and Mr. Canning. — Mr. William Smith 
opposed it. The question was put and carried, without a division. 



( 133 ) 

VACCINE INOCULATION. 

JULY 29th, 1807. 

The Chancellor of the Exchequer (Mr. Perceval) in a Committee of the 
whole House, proposed as a Resolution, " That a sum not exceeding 10,000?. 
be granted to His Majesty to be paid to Dr. Edward Jenner, as a further 
reward for promulgating his discovery of Vaccine Inoculation ; by which a 
mild and efficacious- mode of superseding that dreadful malady the Small-pox 
is established ; and that the same be issued without any fee or other reward 
whatever." Mr. Shaw Lefevre opposed the Resolution. Lord Henry Petty 
supported it, but observed, that though he should not move any amendment 
to it, he should have no difficulty in acceding to one for a larger sum. Mr. 
Morris moved, that, instead of 10,O00Z., the sum of 20,000?. should be inserted 
in the Resolution. Mr. Wilberforce proposed that, instead of this additional 
10,000?., the sum of 1,000?. a year should be given to Dr. Jenner. 

Mr. Windham. — In a case where the opinion of the committee 
appears to be so much made up, I shall certainly not think it right 
to trouble them at any length, more especially after the clear and 
forcible manner in which the subject has been already stated and 
argued. The question is, whether the sum of 20,000/. should be 
given to Dr. Jenner in addition to what he has already received, 
or only 10,000/. ; and I am decidedly in favour of the larger sum. 
There is undoubtedly in every case of this sort a considerable 
difficulty in settling what should be the precise amount of the 
reward granted, and this difficulty is not least in those cases, 
where, as at present, the reward must after all fall infinitely short 
of the value of the thing received. The principles, indeed, on 
which a judgment should be formed, are not difficult to be laid 
down ; but they could be only general principles, and such as 
might still leave great doubt as to the application of them, and 
the quantum which should be given in each particular instance. 
The first of these principles, and that in fact which must lay the 
foundation for all the rest, is that the inv^ention should be real, and 
should belong to the person who claims to be the author of it. On 
this point the house could not possibly act with too much caution, 
especially after the examples which have occurred even in our 
own time, where rewards have been given to inventions and dis- 
coveries, pretending only to be such, "and which, if their preten- 
sions had been better, were not the inventions and discoveries of 
the persons who brought them forward. Till that iioint in any 
12 



134 VACCINE INOCULATION, 

case should be sufficiently ascertained, it is needless to talk of any 
other. But that once established, the next inquiry seenris to be, as 
to the utility of the invention supposed : for it can rarely happen 
that the public will with propriety be called upon to grant rewards 
for discoveries, which, however curious and ingenious, are not of 
any value. Each of these conditions is indispensable: but there 
may be inventions both real and valuable, which yet are not such 
as to call for remuneration out of the public purse. If they were 
the mere effect of accident, if they required for the production of 
them no genius or talents, or if they were the result of no previous 
search or endeavour; if, on the other hand, whatever was their 
origin, they were of a natui'e to be their own reward by making 
the fortune of their authors, in each of these cases there is nothing 
for which any call could be made on the munificence of the public. 
On one supposition only could such a demand have place, namely, 
that of an invention, which though useful and valuable, and certain 
to prove in the end beneficial to its author as well as to the pubHc, 
could not without the aid of public assistance overcome the difficul- 
ties which would for a while oppose themselves to its establishment. 
I cannot pretend to say that upon this last score the discovery 
now before the committee is one that calls for the intervention of 
the house; such is its immense utility, such the sense already 
entertained of that utility in this country, and such the still deeper 
impressions, which, I am glad, though somewhat ashamed to say, 
a sense of that utility has made on the minds of other countries, 
that there is little danger that vaccination will not make its way, 
whether the legislature here gives any assistance to it or not. It 
should not, however, be out of our minds, that even upon this 
ground the assistance of the legislature would be far from super- 
fluous : but before I say more upon this head, I wish to revert to 
those other general principles to which I have alluded, and to see 
from them both what the necessity of reward is in this case, and 
how far, in the option which the question afibrds, the committee 
ought to decide for the larger sum. The reality and the utility 
of the discovery I consider as being placed out of all doubt: no 
one will pretend to say, that the world was not about to owe the 
practice of vaccination to Dr. Jenner. That the j)reventive pro- 
perty of the vaccine matter has been long known among certain 
inferior classes in particular districts of this kingdom, was a fact 
never denied or dissembled : that a solitary instance, or even more 
than one, of matter being taken from the cow, and applied pur- 
posely to tile arms, to produce the disease, is, I believe, not ques- 
tioned. The merit of Dr. Jenner was, that he had remarked 
what others had overlooked; that he had cultivated what others 
had neglected ; that he had pursued an inquiry which others had 
relinquished or never thought of engaging in ; that from a small, 



VACCINE INOCULATION. 135 

unheeded despised fact, he had with great sagacity discovered, 
and with infinite pains, judgment, and perseverance, developed 
and brought forth powers which no one had ever thought or 
dreamt of, which were to fill the world with admiration and grati- 
tude, and to render a service to mankind which was never before 
supposed to be within the limits of possibility. He who did this 
was surely entitled priyna facie to some reward from his country, 
if not from all the world. But I wish the house to consider the 
merits of this invention a little more in detail. Even its magni- 
tude, the point probably on which there would be the least ques- 
tion, requires some little consideration duly to appreciate it. It is 
not merely the decrease of danger and suffering on the part of 
those inoculated with vaccine matter, as compared with those 
inoculated in the common way, that constitutes the great advan- 
tage ; it is the singular and invaluable circumstance of no infection 
being thereby communicated toothers; the consequence of which 
is, that the final end and consummation of this great discovery is 
nothing less than the total extermination of the small-pox, and the 
restoring mankind to the state in which they were before this 
dreadful scourge came upon them, or rather to a still better state, 
as the means would now exist of freeing them from that pestilence 
should it ever again return. The common mode of inoculation, 
while it secures, or nearly secures those to whom it is applied, 
continues for ever to keep open, if not to enlarge, the source of 
danger to others ; insomuch that calculations have been made to 
show, that the mortality by the small-pox since the introduction 
of inoculation has been greater than it was before. It is not to 
be inferred from thence, as some seem to suppose, that if the facts 
were true, the world must have been a sufferer by inoculation ; 
the world has gained by the change which it has introduced into 
the habits of life, and the effect it has had in freeing men from 
that terror which confined them before to their own homes and 
neighbourhood, and which operated as a continued check upon 
intercourse. If the danger was upon the whole as great, they at 
least had not the same terrors of it ; had their fears been the same, 
and the same precautions in consequence been observed, the effects 
of inoculation would have been found possibly in a different shape, 
that, namely, of a diminution of the deaths. These views of the 
final good to be produced by the vaccine, and of the consequent 
rate at which it ought to be prized, depend unquestionably upon 
the truth of the character ascribed to it, and which will be found 
in its best, as well as in its most authentic form, in the Report of 
the Physicians that is before the house. This Report indeed I 
consider as being all that is necessary to complete conviction. 
Though it may not be true, that in all cases the opinion of physi- 
cians must be received as conclusive on points of medical prac- 



136 VACCINE INOCULATION. 

tice, they may safely be trusted for not assenting too readily to 
the introduction of what was new, armed as they were, not only 
by the common feelings of professional jealousy, but by the reason- 
able distrust which long experience must have taught them, of 
pretended improvements and discoveries; and here when the phy- 
sicians are satisfied, the house may safely dismiss its doubts. Jt is 
not necessary to reriort for further satisfaction to the testimonies 
that are pouring in from all quarters, not only from cities and 
districts, but from whole nations and countries. The value, there- 
fore, of the discovery as efiecting all that was ascribed to it, and 
as ending in nothing but the total extinction of the small-pox, not 
to mention the quantum of life which it would save in the mean 
time, I shall consider as proved. With equal confidence may I 
assume, what no one I presume will dispute, that but for Dr. 
Jenner the world would at present have been without that blessing, 
and might have remained so for a period of which no man can 
fix the extent. Here then are three of the main conditions neces- 
sary in such a question, to an extent far more than was necessary, 
a discovery of inestimable value, and a discoverer whose claim 
cannot be disputed, and who owes his discovery not to chance, 
but to a long perseverance in endeavours, prompted by the most 
laudable motives, and guided by no common or ordinary powers. 
It remains to be asked, whether there are not other qualities in 
addition even to those of genius and industry, which have been 
manifested by Dr. Jenner in the course of this discovery, and 
which mark him out as having a pecuUar claim for public remu- 
neration ; and whether the discovery has been of such a nature, 
especially in his hands, as to render legislative interference unne- 
cessary by the advantages to the author which it has itself pro- 
duced. There is no point of the case more applicable than this 
to the question immediately before the committee, and few that 
ought more to be brought forward for the author's honour. Dr. 
Jenner has shown throughout that he was actuated by motives 
of far higher consideration than those of regard to his personal 
interests ; though to establish fully the reputation of the practice 
it was necessary to make it public ; though by making it public 
he lost in a great degree the means of converting it to his own 
advantage, yet it is not to be doubted, that by a due compromise 
of these opposite considerations, a man intent only upon his own 
interest might have contrived to open for many years a source 
of such profit to himself, as to have set him much at his ease, in 
respect to any decision which Parliament might thereafter have 
taken. Dr. .Tenner did no such thing ; so far from seeking profit, 
he sacrificed his time, his money, his prospects in his profession, 
to the prosecution of his discovery, and never seems to have 
thought for a moment of himself, while any means remained 



VACCINE INOCULATION. 137 

untried for promoting tiie great object which he had in view. It 
was not thus that those persons (the Suttons) proceeded, who in- 
troduced into inoculation the last great improvement which it 
received, and the highest perhaps of which it was capable. They 
kept their practice concealed to the last moment, and succeeded 
notwithstanding in obtaining such confidence in their method, in 
spite of the prejudices excited against them,, similar to those now 
excited against Dr. Jenner, as enabled them severally to make 
great fortunes, and even to furnish for a time the means of similar 
profit to others. On what grounds shall it be said, that a similar 
concealment and similar success were not practicable on the part 
of Dr. Jenner ? In point of fact the attempt was not made : and 
what is still more directly to the purpose, the object of such an 
attempt, if it had been made, has not been accomplished. Dr. 
Jenner is not the richer for his discovery; he is the poorer; and 
it is a circumstance only of addition, a circumstance, however, 
of the highest honour to him, and that ought to enter largely into 
our consideration, that he is the poorer by his own disinterested- 
ness, and by the preference given to public objects over consider- 
ations affecting only himself In these circumstances, what Dr. 
Jenner has hitherto received is 10,000/., and the question now is, 
whether that 10,000/. should be made up to 20,000/. or 30,000Z. 
Twenty thousand or thirty thousand, or the double of either of 
those sums, appear so small and insignificant when placed by the 
side of such a service as he has rendered, that the proportion be- 
tween them is wholly lost, and with a view to compensation for 
the benefit' obtained, it seems hardly of consequence whether the 
one is given or the other. Dr. Jenner's cause seems in danger of 
suffei'ing by the very greatness of the service which he has ren- 
dered. The utmost that can be done is so inadequate, that it 
becomes almost a matter of doubt whether it is worth while that 
any thing should be done at all. We must recur in this difficulty 
to the great principle by which the whole is governed, and which, 
by tracing the reasons why any thing at all should be given, may 
furnish to the house the best assistance that can be had for settling 
their opinions as to the amount of the sum. Rewards, like punish- 
ments, are for the sake of example; and can be regulated by 
nothing but by a view of the consequences they are to produce 
on the general interests of society. By the reward given in any 
instance, a rate of bounty is laid down, as far as that instance 
operates, for the encouragement of similar exertions in future; 
and what rate should we establish, and what encouragement 
hold out, if a service, such as the present, the greatest possibly 
that by any single act, or by any single person was ever conferred 
upon mankind, and displaying in the course of it qualities the most 
valuable, and conduct the most meritorious, should receive from 
12* S 



138 VACCINE INOCULATION. 

a country like this no greater reward than a sum of 20,000/. ? I 
will not proceed to inquire whether the same might not be said 
of 30,000/., but will confine myself to the question as it stands 
before the committee, where the only point for determination is 
the option between the two sums. It will hardly be said, that on 
the principles here laid down, talents and genius are no fit subjects 
of reward ; for these are qualities which encouragement would 
not alter ; they are the gifts of natui'e. Of the genius and talents 
by which the world is benefited, how large is the portion which 
is not the gift of nature, but the effect of pains and cultivation ! 
The application at least must always be voluntary, and cannot 
therefore be considered among those things on which reward and 
encouragement can have no influence. Let a reward be given to 
Dr. Jenner for his disinterestedness only, for the sacrifices which 
he has made, and it will not be found that a less sum should be 
given him, than the highest of those which are now asked. This 
is a limit afforded by the case itself. We cannot give to Dr. 
Jenner, for the most valuable discovery ever made, less than would 
be sufficient to indemnify him for expenses actually incurred, and 
profits actually sacrificed. A sum not less considerable must be 
awarded him, if we should take as our criterion not the reason 
of the thing, but what has been the practice of the house on 
similar occasions. Does the discovery for which 30,000/. is now 
asked, exceed no more the value of discoveries for which sums 
of 5000/. and 10,000/. have been granted, than in the proportion 
respectively of those sums? If our own authority as derived from 
former instances is not sufficient, let us take for our guide the 
feelings and opinions of foreign nations as to the magnitude of the 
discovery, and the gratitude due to the author. Could we bear 
to have it said, that England, the country which gave birth to this 
invention ; England, where from the general diffusion of know- 
ledge, and high cultivation of medical science, its merits might 
be expected to be best understood, and most truly appreciated, 
should notwithstanding be the country, which in proportion to its 
means, to its general practice, and to the peculiar call made upon 
it, was the least disposed to mark its sense of the value of the 
invention by a liberal or competent reward to the author? The 
feelings and opinions of foreign nations are not merely a means 
of showing what is right, but do of themselves, in a case of this 
sort, constitute a motive of conduct, and may make that right 
which was not so before. It may be right in certain cases that 
England should do what others think she ought to do ; that she 
should never fall below the opinion which the world has formed of 
her. The fame which the country has acquired as that in which 
publicly or privately useful inventions are most sure to find their 
reward, has had no small share in producing those which arose 



VACCINE INOCULATION. 139 

among ourselves, and of attracting those which originated in 
other places. The very pride of the country on this head ought 
not to be lightly regarded ; but on a larger view its interests are 
also concerned. One further consideration ought not to be omit- 
ted, arising in part out of circumstances which I have already- 
touched upon, but operating in a manner still more pointed and 
direct. It is the impression likely to be m.ade on the public mind 
of this country, by the greater or less reward which parliament 
may think it right to give, as indicating the opinion of parliament 
on the value of the discovery and the certainty of its principles, 
and the effect thereby to be produced in fortifying or counteract- 
ing those ignorant prejudices and wicked arts by which, so little 
to our credit, the progress of the invention has been hitherto ob- 
structed. The house knows what are the means whicn have been 
employed for that purpose, and that there are men in this country, 
happily not of the greatest authority, w^ho do not think it repug- 
nant to their duty nor find it beneath their character, to try to 
prevent, or rather to obstruct and delay the adoption of this prac- 
tice, by turning against it the passions and prejudices of those, 
who have nothing but passion and prejudice to guide them, or 
who must be considered at least as wholly incapable of forming 
upon the subject any sound judgment of their own. It is in vain 
to say that the arts of such persons can produce but little effect. 
Finally, no doubt, they cannot prevent the establishment of a 
system confirmed continually by fact and experience, and sanc- 
tioned by all that is intelligent and respectable ; but in the mean 
while there are the vulgar and the ignorant, among whom argu- 
ments such as they use, are far more than a match for all that 
can be produced by men who employ for the support of their 
cause no arms but those of truth and reason. Persons to whom 
these would apply on a subject like the present, form, it must be 
remembered, but a small portion of the whole mass of the com- 
munity, and to what period must the hope be removed of seeing 
the final extinction of the disorder, if four-fifths, perhaps, of the 
population of the country, are made to resist the progress of vac- 
cination, and to remain as a fund for perpetuating and propagating 
infection? Whatever tends to shorten the duration of such a 
state of things, must be an object of great importance; and what 
is more likely to counteract the pernicious influence of the prac- 
tices here spoken of, than the authority of parliament, manifesting 
by the amount of the reward, the soundness of the practice, and 
of the blessings which it is calculated to dispense. Should it be 
said that in this view the difference between the sums proposed 
could do but little, let it be remembered that in the scale of national 
expenditure the difference betw^een the sums is but little; and no 
country need fear being impoverished by the liberality of its 



140 VACCINE INOCULATION. 

rewards for discoveries such as the present. It would be happy 
for the country and for the world, should the demands for such 
exertions of national gratitude and munificence, be more numerous 
and more frequent. In every point of view in which I can con- 
sider the subject, I cannot hesitate in declaring in favour of the 
larger sum. My own opinion in fact is, that a sum still larger 
would be more suitable to the character of the country, and more 
conformable to the principles which ought to govern the conduct 
of countries upon such occasions. 

The Chancellor of the Exchequer again spoke in favour of the eum origin- 
ally proposed. Mr. W. Smith, Mr. Whitbread, and Mr. G. H. Rose, supported 
Mr. Morris's Amendment. The question was then put that the " twenty 
thousand" do stand as a part of the Resolution, when the Committee divided, 

Ayes 60 

Noes 47 

Majority in favour of the larger sum, 13 

The Resolution accordingly passed in its amended shape. 

N. B. The above speech was corrected by Mr. Windham at the 
request of Mr. Murray, Secretary to the National Vaccine Insti- 
tution, for the purpose of being inserted in the " Debates on Par- 
liament respecting the Jennerian Controversy." 



(141 ) 

CAMPAIGN IN SPAIN. 

FEBRUARY 24th, 1809. 

Mr. Ponsonby moved, " That it is indispensably necessary that this House 
should inquire into the causes, conduct, and events of the late Campaign in 
Spain." Lord Castlereagh, General Stewart, and Mr. Secretary Canning, op- 
posed the motion. Mr. Tierney and Lord Milton supported it. In reply to 
Mr. Canning, 

Mr. Windham was determined to confine what he had to say 
to tVie objects of the inquiry, and in that case should pass by four- 
fiiths of the speech of tiie Right Honourable Gentleman. How- 
ever able the speech of that Right Honourable Gentleman, it had 
been very little to the purpose. It was an odd moment for the 
Right Honourable Gentleman to express his hopes, and an odd 
quarter from which such hopes proceeded, when our army had 
been withdrawn from Spain, when we had left the Spaniards to 
fight their own battles. This had something so ludicrous in it, 
that he wondered it did not remind the Right Honourable Gentle- 
man of the very pleasant lines, 

"He fled full soon 
On the first of June, 
And bade the rest keep fighting." 

When we had damned their cause, it was no time for us to give 
the Spaniards lectures upon national energies and perseverance. 

But, to go soberly to the consideration of the plan of the cam- 
paign : it had been agreed, on all hands, that the crisis was one 
of the most important, and that a greater hope had never been 
opened for the salvation of Europe. The spirit of the country 
had been exalted to the highest pitch ; every nerve had been 
braced, and all classes of the community concurred in encourag- 
ing and supporting ministers ; yet the event had shown that there 
had been an universal failure. When the greatest stake the 
country ever had was lost, either by ill fortune, or by the mis- 
management of ministers, and of those ministers to whom the 
greatest means were entrusted, that were ever entrusted to any 
ministers, it was full time for inquiry. 

There were two things to be considered : first, the propriety 
of sending troops to Portugal : secondly, the mode of sending 
them from Portugal to Spain. It would be necessary to ask 
ministers why they did not send out any force before the 12th of 



142 CAMPAIGN IN SPAIN. 

July 1 and why, after they knew that Junot's retreat was, in a 
naanner, cut off, and that he could not join Dupont, they sent 
troops to Portugal 1 If they were resolved to send troops to Por- 
tugal, it appeared as if it would have been better to have waited 
till the reinforcements joined ; for, as it was managed, it appeared 
a doubtful thing which of the two armies would have beat. Junot 
was as confident of success as Sir Arthur Wellesley ; and, between 
two such generals, and two such armies, there was as glorious 
an uncertainty in war, as in law. But, supposing even that Sir 
Arthur might feel confident of beating Junot, yet it was not to be 
calculated that Junot must, of his own accord, come down to be 
beaten. " Come down and be hanged, master Barnadine !" It 
appeared evidently that he could not be compelled to do so ; for 
if, after having been beat, he was able to protract, for many 
m.onths, a defensive war, he could certainly have done that just as 
well before he was beat. Although we were the victors, yet, 
from an unfortunate arrangement made by ministers at home, the 
conquering general was superseded, and the fruits of the victory 
were lost. It was the efiect of military councils at home, by 
which Sir John Moore was placed in such a situation as made it 
necessary to fall back upon Corunna, and to execute that retreat 
with such rapidity as necessarily exposed our troops to great loss, 
and risked the capture of the whole army, if, by any shift of 
wind, they had been prevented from embarking. Oiir expedition 
to Spain was managed in such a manner, as not only to do no 
good, but to do what was much worse than nothing. We held 
out to Spain the disheartening example of what we called our best 
army, retreating from the field without striking a single blow, 
and on the mere rumour of the enemy's advance. When we left 
the field in this manner, it was in vain to tell the Spaniards, " Do 
you go on fighting, my brave fellows, and never mind us." We 
showed them, by our example, that our best troops could do 
nothing, and therefore that there was little chance of their undis- 
ciplined peasantry succeeding better. 

It appeared a great fault of the military councils of this coun- 
try, that upon the 12th of July they were so very badly informed 
of the situation of Portugal, a country where every man was our 
friend, where information would issue from every pore, that they 
supposed there were 5000 French in that country, when, in fact, 
there were 25,000. If Spain had been assisted in the best man- 
ner, there was every reason to suppose that our assistance would 
have been effectual, as Spain had, besides her mass (a species of 
force common to every country,) several armies, tolerably well 
organized, and led on by skilful commanders. He had been often 
reproached for not expressing as high an opinion as other Gentle- 
men, of a rising in mass. He should, however, again repeat, that 



CAMPAIGN IN SPAIN. 143 

it would be quite idle and childish to expect the Spanish mass, or 
the mass of any other country, to stop the course of Buonaparte's 
army, or of any considerable division of it. Let the force of the 
mass be what it would, be the medium more dense or more rare, 
the army would pass through it nearly as a cannon-ball would 
pass through the air, without any regard to its density or rarity. 
An army went where it listed, and was not to be stopped in its 
course by peasantry. He did not know that the Spaniards as- 
sembled at Bayonne were quite as great traitors as they wei-e re- 
presented. If they saw, and were perfectly convinced that Spain 
could offer no eflectual resistance to Buonaparte, they might, 
without much treachery to their countrymen, tell them they were 
unable to resist, and that it was much better for them to submit, 
at once, without drawing all the evils of war upon their heads. 

This was a question not unfit for our government, too,^ to con- 
sider; and if it was decided, as he (?t'Ir. W.) thought it was 
rightly, that a chance did exist of the emancipation of Spain, and 
that no effort should be spared to assist that chance on the part 
of this country, then the only inquiry was, what force shall w"e 
send ? and in what manner shall it be applied ? And here it was 
impossible not to be struck, not only with the total want of plan, 
but with the total want of all right conception, in the Honourable 
Gentlemen, of the very nature of the great work in which they 
were about to engage. 

, There were evidently two courses to be pursued ; either to 
strike a stroke in the part, that first presented itself, namely, on 
the Ebro, and to endeavour to drive the enemy out of Spain, by 
attacking him instantly, while his force was small, and when his 
views upon Austria, or his jealousy of what Austria might design 
against him, kept his attention divided, and made it impossible for 
him much to augment his numbers; or, giving that attempt up as 
hopeless, to proceed, at once, to what ought to be the general plan 
of the campaign, with a view of afibrding to Spain any hope of 
final deliverance. On the former of these modes of proceeding, 
though the most tempting, and that which ministers had been 
most blamed for not endeavouring, he should give no opinion; 
because, few but those in office could have the necessary means 
for judging. It was a very nice question, depending on informa- 
tion of the force which the French actually had, and the proba- 
bility there might be of their being able to send large reinforce- 
ments, in case they should have reason to think, from observation 
of our armaments, that we had an intention of acting upon that 
quarter. There might be danger in that case, not only of the 
enemy's force becoming so great, as to destroy the hope of our 
forcing them from the Ebro, but also of their falling in by the 
way with some of our columns, and of destro3ing them before 



144 CAMPAIGN IN SPAIN. 

we could form a junction with our allies. The time, too, was 
short, the execution must be prompt, and there was all the diffi- 
culty of sending a large force into any of the northern ports of 
Spain, at a period of the year at all late. This dilRculty had not 
been found insuperable, as had been seen in the case of the Mar- 
quis de Romana's army, nor did the probability seem great, that 
Buonaparte, having once disposed his troops, and settled his mea- 
sures for a war with Austria, could have suddenly reversed his 
plans, and transferred his forces, so as to have arrived in Spain 
by the time our troops had begun to act. 

It was not true, either, that the one plan created any necessity 
of giving up the other. If the force sent to the Ebro had, as it 
ought to have been, been chiefly cavalry, the force, namely, which 
the Spaniards most wanted, and which we had most ready and 
could best spare ; such a force, even if found in the event insuf- 
ficient for its immediate object, could still have been able to take 
care of itself, and to have retired in safety through Spain, a 
country of friends and alhes, to that part of the Peninsula, where, 
at all events, and in every view, the great mass of our force 
should be collected. This part was no other than the Southern 
Provinces, the neighbourhood of Cadiz, and Gibraltar. The rea- 
soning that determined this choice was really little short of de- 
monstrable. Whatever force you send into Spain, small or great, 
can you be sure, even with all the aid that the armies or masses 
of Spain can give you, that it will be able to resist the hosts that 
Buonaparte can pour in against you, having for his supply nothing 
less than a sort of inexhaustible ocean, the whole population of 
Europe ? Undoubtedly, the means possessed by Buonaparte were 
such as to leave but little hope of escape at any rate ; yet some 
there must be, otherwise why did we send any troops at all, or 
encourage the Spaniards to resist? No one, however, could feel 
confident, or, at least, certain; and therefore if we send any army 
into Spain, great or small, we must think of the means, in case of 
extremity, of bringing them away. The inference drawn by the 
Honourable Gentlemen, from these premises, seemed to be, that 
we ought to send only a small force: much upon the same princi- 
ple which we heard of on a former occasion, when bad horses 
were sent, and horses unfit for the service, because they would 
be a less sacrifice if lost : but, great or small, the necessity of a 
retreat being provided seemed to be nearly equal. If the army 
was large, the stake was greater ; and if small, the chance was 
greater of losing it. Now, there was in all Spain, including Por- 
tugal, that is, in the whole Peninsula, but two places, and those 
in the same quarter, from which a large body of troops, when 
pressed by a superior army, could hope to get away, viz. Cadiz, 
and Gibraltar. There M'as. therefore, no other part of Spain 



CAMPAIGN IN SPAIN. 145 

where an army from this country, large enough to be of any use, 
and not a mere flying corps, could, with propriety, be trusted, 
except in the neighbourhood of Cadiz and Gibraltar, or in such 
circumstances as to have its retreat upon one or other of those 
places always open. 

There, therefore, he (Mr. W.) would have collected not only a 
large army, but the greatest force, that the country, in its then 
state of zeal and ardour, could by yjossibility have furnished. 
There was no reason why, instead of the 30,000, (which those 
who like at all times to dwell so much upon the means of Buona- 
parte, think at other times would be sufficient) we might not have 
had an army of 100,000. No one disliked more than he did, the 
practice of recruiting from the militia : but bad as he thought that, 
when meant as a part of a general system of recruiting, and 
great as he thought the objection to it, at all times, he was still of 
opinion that there were occasions when such objections must be 
made to give way; and if ever such an occasion did, or could 
exist, unquestionably the present was one. 

The effect of such an army, ably conducted, was not to be 
spoken lightly of He was not prepared to say, that it would 
have succeeded. Who shall say that any thing would succeed ? 
But as its chances would be better, so would its risks be less. A 
hundred thousand men, with Gibraltar to retreat upon, was a far 
less risk to the country than 30,000 in the situation where the 
Honourable Gentlemen had placed them ; nay, than 30,000, in the 
very situation spoken of; because, a general must be very defi- 
cient in knowledge of his business, very difierent from the Hon- 
ourable General opposite (Sir A. Wellesley,) who, in such an 
abundant country, and with such a fortress behind him, would, 
with an army of that amount, suffer himself to be prevented from 
making good his retreat, by any army which the enemy could 
bring against him. — For, when we talked of Buonaparte's num- 
bers, we must recollect where these numbers were to act. To 
meet in the south of Spain a British force of 100,000, Buonaparte 
must bring over the Pyrenees a force of not less than 200,000 ; 
to say nothing of the demand that would be made upon him by 
the large Spanish army, that might be raised in that part of 
Spain, to co-operate with the British, and which the presence of 
such a British force would help to raise. Buonaparte would have 
a whole kingdom which he must garrison behind him, if he would 
either be sure of his supplies, or make provision against total de- 
struction in the event of any reverse. He must fight us at arm's- 
length, while our strength would be exerted within distance, with 
an impregnable fortress at hand, furnishing at once a safe retreat 
in case of disaster, and a source of endless supj^ly by means of 
safe and undisturbable communication with this country. 
13 T 



146 CAMPAIGN IN SPAIN. 

And let it not be said, that while the army continued in the 
south Buonaparte might continue master of the north; what mas- 
tery could he have of any part of Spain, while such an army 
could keep on foot in any other ? And why, in case of success, 
did the security of its retreat require that it should never advance? 
He (Mr. W.) should be willing to compromise for the result to 
Spain, which would enable us and the Spaniards to retain an army 
in that country, which Buonaparte should not have the means of 
dispersing. 

There was never any thing so demonstrable, therefore, as that 
the only way of carrying on effectually a campaign in Spain, 
whatever else you might have done, was to collect your army in 
the south. Consistent with that, you might have made the trial, 
if those who had the means of judging should have found it advi- 
sable, of driving the French from the Ebro ; and the complete suc- 
cess of that attempt might have spared the necessity of actually 
landing at Cadiz or Gibraltar, though still always keeping those 
fortresses in view, in case of being overpowered by numbers. 
Consistent with that, you might, as was even still more evident, 
have prosecuted your designs on Portugal, though in a different 
manner and with different views. If the object was not, as was 
now described, to get Junot out of Portugal upon any tei'ms ; even 
upon those of removing him, through the medium of our disgrace, 
into Spain; but to destroy or render captive a French army, 
then, instead of the sort of predatory desultory excursion on which 
the Honourable General was employed, why not send a full and 
competent portion of the force destined to be collected in the south, 
so as to have proceeded to their destination through Portugal, and 
to have swept off Junot in their way ? A force raised to the great- 
est possible amount to which the mind and means of the country, 
— then elevated above itself and exalted to something of a preter- 
natural greatness, {majorque videtiir, nee mortale sonans) — could 
have carried it, should have been placed in Spain in a situation, 
the only one which the country afforded, where it would have 
been safe from the risk of total loss or capture, and would not 
have been kept down by the idea, that the deposit was too great 
for the country to hazard. 

This should have been the great foundation, the base line, of 
the plan of the campaign. On this the country might have given 
a loose to all its exertions, with the consolatory reflection, that the 
greater its exertions the greater its security, the more it made its 
preparations effectual to their purpose, the less was the risk at 
which it acted. From this, other operations might have branched 
out in different directions, as circumstances pointed out. It was 
scandalous that nothing had ever been done to assist our friends 



CAMPAIGN IN SPAIN. 147 

or to annoy our enemies on the east side of Spain, where to a 
power having the complete command at sea, the finest opportuni- 
ties were presented, and had been most unaccountably neglected. 
The history of the campaign to the east, which presents nothing 
but one universal blank, was one of the parts of this most mise- 
rably conducted business for which the ministers could least set 
up any excuse. It seemed to have been total neglect and forget- 
fulness. They forgot that there was such a coast as the eastern 
coast of Spain ; that it was accessible everywhere to our ships, 
placed as the high road for the entry of .troops from France, 
inhabited by the race of men, who fought at Gerona and Sara- 
gossa ; and on the other hand, that we had a large army doing no- 
thing in Sicily, or who, if we were to attempt to employ them where 
they were, must be employed in worse than nothing. For all 
operations in this quarter of Spain, Gibraltar afforded the most 
marked facilities. With a large army stationed in the south, the 
enemy could never know what detachments we were slipping out 
behind us, nor with what descents they might be threatened in 
their rear or on their flanks. The army need never have been 
idle; nor, what was hardly less advantageous, need never be sup- 
posed to be idle. — One general consequence resulting from a sta- 
tion, where an army might have been assembled really worthy of 
the cause and of the country, and whose utility would have been 
apparent and striking, was, that it would have given us an ascen- 
dency in the Spanish councils, highly advantageous to them, and 
such as, with tolerably good conduct, might have been made not 
less popular. — There was no one who would deprecate more than 
he should any meddling spirit of interference in their internal con- 
cerns, or any assumption of a right of control : but the existence 
of an authority arising from merits and services, from the value 
of what was done, and the evidence of what was intended, and 
which should be applied only to the healing dissensions, discoura- 
ging factions, and affording a common centre of appeal to all the 
upright and well intentioned, was perhaps just the happiest thing 
that could happen in their circumstances, and such as every hon- 
est and intelligent Spaniard must hail with delight. 

He could not help perceiving in the conduct of this war, and 
certainly in much of the language held about it, a certain mixture 
of that error, which prevailed in many years of the last war, of 
encouraging sanguine expectations of what was to be done by 
Austria and oiher powers, and looking to them for what in many 
instances ought to have been our own work. Something of that 
sort prevailed here. With all our talk about Spain, we did not 
set our shoulders to the wheel, as people would, who felt that they 
had nothing to trust to, but their own exertions, and who estima- 



148 CAMPAIGN IN SPAIN. 

ted truly what the exertions of this country could do when fairly 
put forth. 

But, the great and pregnant source of error in the conduct of 
the Honourable Gentlemen, besides the fault of not knowing bet- 
ter, was that which they had in common with many other minis- 
ters, and which he had signally witnessed in some of his own time, 
of mistaking bustle for activity, and supposing that they were 
doing a great deal, when they were only making a great deal of 
noise, and spending a great deal of money. While ministers were 
writing long dispatches, issuing orders in all directions, keeping 
up clerks to unusual hours, covering the roads with messengers, 
and putting the whole country in a ferment, they were very apt 
to fancy that the public service must be making prodigious advan- 
ces. And their purpose, the purpose of the ministers themselves, 
might, very possibly, in the mean while, be answered ; for the 
error here stated was not a disinterested one, and one without its 
design. It was thus, perhaps, that an administration was to ac- 
quire the character of vigour! The ministers looked at every 
measure not with a view to the effect which it was to produce 
abroad, but to the appearance which it was to make at home : 
they were more intent upon the richness and costliness of the han- 
dle of their weapon than upon the keenness and temper of the 
blade. The public joined them heartily in the delusion ; and as 
long as that was so, we must expect to see the interests of the 
country and of the world sacrificed to such misconduct, as was 
exhibited in the history of this campaign in Spain. 

There was another topic upon which he felt it necessary to 
touch. It had been represented, that throughout the north of 
Spain there was the greatest possible apathy and M'ant of zeal, 
and that the Marquis de Romana had confessed it. Now, to say 
nothing of the gross breach of confidence in quoting what the 
Marquis de Romana had sdid, if he had said it in private, or the 
gross fallacy of quoting what he might have said in a proclama- 
tion in a moment of spleen or anger, and for the purpose of stimu- 
lating the inhabitants of those provinces to greater activity, he 
must utterly deny the expressions quoted. There could be nothing 
more fallacious than to estimate the feelings of a country towards 
any cause, by the feelings excited in that part of it, which should 
be exposed to the immediate pressure of an army. If the scene 
of war, for instance, lay in England, and we had an army of 
allies, Germans or Russians, or even an army of our own coun- 
trymen, acting for our defence, they would not, he apprehended, 
be very popular, in the places where they were ; and there would 
not be wanting complaints among the farmers, whose provisions 
w^ere consumed, whose hen-roosts were plundered, whose furni- 



CAMPAIGN IN SPAIN. 149 

ture was stolen, whose ricks were set on fire, and whose wives 
and daughters might not always be treated with perfect decorum, 
that the French themselves could not do them greater mischief! 
Now, if this were true, as it infalHbly would be, of English troops 
upon English ground, might we not suppose that a good deal 
more of the same sort would happen, both as to the provocation 
given and the imitation excited by it, when the English troops 
were to be placed in these circumstances on Spanish ground, and 
where every cause of dissatisfaction must be aggravated a thou- 
sand-fold, by dificrence of habits and marmers, and the want of 
any common language, by which the parties might understand 
one another. It must be confessed, too, he was afraid, that 
we were not the nation who accommodated ourselves best to 
strangers, who knew best how to conciliate their good-will ; and 
when to all this were added the circumstances in which our army 
was placed, that w^e w^ere a retreating army, and an army com- 
pelled to retreat with extraordinary rapidity and much consequent 
disorder, it would not be very surprising, if neither we appeared 
to the people nor they to us, in form the most advantageous, or 
such as to render the inhabitants of the towns and villages on 
the line of our march, a very fair representation of the feelings 
and sentiments of the mass of people in Spain. On many occa- 
sions, from the fault of the commissariat, or from other causes, 
the soldiers, when they came in at the end of a long march, had 
nothing provided for them to eat ; and w^ere obliged to help them- 
selves. The inhabitants, in their terror, whether they staid or 
had fled, had locked up their houses, and nothing was to be got 
but by breaking them open ; and it was easy to understand, that 
when once soldiers, whether from necessity or otherwise, began 
to break open houses, further irregularities, without disparagement 
to the discipline of the army, or character of the men, must be 
expected. The kingdom of Gallicia, in general, was probably a 
very unfair specimen, as to what was to be looked for from the 
rest of the country, not so much, perhaps, from the character of 
the inhabitants, as from the state of society there, where the gen- 
try were few and of little influence, and where there was almost 
a total want of those classes which might direct and methodize 
the exertions of the lower orders, or make them sensible even 
that such exertions were necessary. — To talk of the Spaniards 
generally, as wanting in zeal or courage or determination to de- 
fend their country, was more than any one would venture, after 
such examples as Saragossa, where a defence was made so far 
exceeding what was to be expected from a regular army, that 
one might conceive a general made a peer in this country, for 
having surrendered Saragossa, in circumstances far short of 
those in which its inhabitants defended it. 
13* 



150 CAMPAIGN IN SPAIN. 

The Right Honourable Gentleman conchjded with expressing 
liis determination to support the motion for an Inquiry. 

Earl Percy, Mr. Bathurst, and Mr. Hutchinson, supported the motion ; after 
which a division took place, when there appeared, 

For Mr. Ponsonby's motion 127 

Against it 220 

Majority 93 • 



( 151 ) 

CONDUCT OF THE DUKE OF YORK. 

MARCH 14th, 1809. 

On the 8th of March, Mr. Wardle moved the order of the day for taking 
into consideration the Minutes of Evidence taken before the Committee who 
were appointed to investigate the conduct of His Royal Highness the Duke 
of York, Commander in Chief, with regard to promotions, exchanges, and 
appointments to commissions in the army and staff of the army, and in raising 
levies of the army. He then proceeded to recapitulate the evidence, and 
concluded by moving an Address to His Majesty, which, after noticing the 
proceedings of the House on this subject, concluded with declaring, " That it 
is the opinion of this House, that the abuses which they have most humbly 
represented to His Majesty, could not have prevailed to the extent in which 
they had been proved to exist, without the knowledge of the Commander in 
Chief; and that even if, upon any principle of reason or probability, it could 
be presumed that abuses so various and so long continued could, in fact, have 
prevailed without his knowledge, such a presumption in his favour would not 
warrant the conclusion, that the command of the army could, with safety, or 
ought, in prudence, to be continued in his liands : — That on these grounds 
and principles His Majesty's faithful Commons most humbly submit their 
opinion to His Majesty's gracious consideration, that His Royal Highness the 
Duke of York ought to be deprived of the command of the army." 

To this Address, the Chancellor of the Exchequer (Mr. Perceval) proposed 
an Amendment, which included the following Resolution, viz. " Resolved, 
That it is the opinion of this House, after the fullest and most attentive con- 
sideration of all the evidence reported to this House, from the Committee 
appointed to inquire into the conduct of His Royal Highness the Duke of 
York, that there is no ground for charging His Royal Highness, in the execu- 
tion of his official duties, as Commander in Chief, with the personal corruption 
alleged against him in that evidence, or with any connivance at the corrupt 
and infamous practices which are therein disclosed." 

On the 9th the debate was resumed, and Mr. Perceval moved the Amend- 
ment which he had proposed on the preceding evening. Mr. Bathurst, taking 
a middle course, suggested, but did not move an Amendment, recognising the 
benefits which the service had derived from His Royal Highness's general 
performance of his duties as Commander in Chief, but regretting " an immoral 
and unbecoming connexion, which had occasioned an interference in the dis- 
tribution of military appointments, tending to discredit His Royal Highness's 
official administration, and to give colour to the most criminal and disgraceful 
transactions," 



152 CONDUCT OF THE DUKE OF YORK. 

On the 10th the question was further debated, and Mr. Banks moved an 
Amendment, in which, after stating- that it had appeared from the evidence 
that corrupt practices and abuses had unquestionably existed, it was proposed, 
" to assure His Majesty that it is highly satisfactory to this House to find no 
ground in any of these proceedings for charging His Royal Highness, the 
Commander in Chief, with personal corruption or participation in any profits 
derived through undue means ; but tliat while we readily do justice to the 
exemplary regularity with which business is conducted in his department, 
and the salutary regulations which have been introduced by His Royal High- 
ness, some of which are calculated to prevent such practices as have been 
brought under our review, we are obliged to express our opinion that such 
abuses could scarcely have prevailed to the extent to which they have been 
proved to exist, without having excited the suspicion of the Commander in 
Chief; and we humbly submit to His Majesty, even if it can be presumed 
that abuses so various and so long continued, could have prevailed without 
the knowledge of His Royal Highness, whether the command of the army 
can with propriety be continued, or ought in prudence to remain any longer 
in his hands." The Amendment concluded with reprobating the example to 
public morals which the evidence had disclosed. 

The discussion was continued on the 13th and 14th March. On the latter 
of these days, Mr. Windham addressed the Chair in the following speech : 

Sir, 
I HAVE abstained hitherto from delivering my sentiments to the 
house, because I felt that it was desirable for me to collect, in the 
course of the discussion, the opinions of as many different mem- 
bers as possible upon this important, delicate, and difficult question, 
before I ventured to offer any view of my own upon it. If I am 
now anxious to state my opinion upon the subject, it is because 
of the crisis of the proceeding at which the house has arrived ; 
because of the mode of proceeding which is next proposed to be 
adopted ; and because very erroneous opinions have been formed 
upon that mode of proceeding. But, before I enter upon this con- 
sideration, it will first be necessary to inquire what is the actual 
state of the question. Statements have been made to this house, 
rather than charges, which impute misconduct to the Commander- 
in-Chief. An inquiry at the bar of the house has been the conse- 
quence, and four modes of proceeding have subsequently been 
recommended. An Address to His Majesty has been originally 
proposed, suggesting what measure should be adopted ; then came 
the Resolution of the Right Honourable the Chancellor of the 
Exchequer, acquitting His Royal Highness altogether ; the third 
course is that proposed by the Right Honourable Gentleman 
upon the floor (Mr.Bathurst;) and the last is the Addi'ess of the 
Honourable Gentleman (Mr. Bankes,) containing an opinion re- 
specting the conduct of the Commander-in-Chief, and differing 



CONDUCT OF THE DUKE OF YORK. 153 

upon the whole from the origuial Address. With any one of these 
modes of proceeding I shall be able, if necessary, to concur, how- 
ever I may have a preference of one over the other. I speak, 
of course, of the forms of proceeding, not of the opinions, by 
which they may be accompanied or intended to be followed, with 
all of which it will not be possible to concur, because many of 
them are in contradiction with each other. 

There is, however, a higher and more general question of pro- 
ceeding, paramount to those just enumerated, which it will be 
necessary previously to discuss, and which I shall endeavour to 
explain. — ^^There seems to be an intention of calling upon the 
house to resolve the great subject before them into certain issuable 
points upon which separate decisions should be taken, and then 
upon the decisions so taken, and as a consequence derived from 
them, to ground an Address expressing the opinion of the house 
as to what ought further to be done. 

However plausible this may sound, and however true it may 
be, that such is the course which each individual will pursue in 
forming his opinion, I am clear that, as a mode of judging to be 
adopted by this house, or by any other tribunal consisting of 
numerous members, it is as little true in theory, as it is conform- 
able to general and established practice. With respect to practice, 
it is obvious, that it is not in this way that the house determines 
the numerous complicated questions that are continually before it. 
For the purpose here considered, it is of no consequence, wdiether 
the question is of a judicial nature or of any other. The law^s of 
reasoning, and the rules by which one truth is deduced from 
another, are the same in all subjects. A question of peace and 
war may involve in it a great variety of subordinate questions, 
such as, Whether the war projected is consistent with the good 
faith of the country, and with subsisting treaties, whether it is 
consistent with its commercial interests, is likely to prove con- 
ducive to its object, &c. &c. Yet the house does not come to a 
separate decision upon these points, and then from these separate 
decisions, derive its general conclusion upon the whole. It goes 
at once to the general conclusion, leaving to each man to adjust 
in his own mind the value to be attached to each of these separate 
considerations. In fact, in the very plan now proposed, we no 
sooner lay down the principle, than we feel ourselves compelled 
the moment afterwards to abandon it: for if we did not, when 
we are deciding the question of guilty or not of participation, &c. 
we must say, guilty or not of participation in the case of Sandon, 
in the case of Knight, and so on in each case to which the ques- 
tion of participation can apply. I protest, therefore, against the 
whole of this mode of proceeding, and declare beforehand, that 
should it be adopted by the house, and should I concur, as I cer- 



154 CONDUCT OF THE DUKE OF YORK. 

tainly shall, in acquitting the Duke of York of participation or 
connivance, I shall not feel myself precluded from taking into 
account, the presumptions established in those very charges, on 
which I have so acquitted him, in deciding upon the general 
question of. Whether or no the Duke of York should be advised 
to withdraw (or the King be advised to remove him) from the 
situation of Commander-in-Chief? When I shall have pronounced 
a verdict of acquittal on all and every one of these charges, I 
shall have said nothing, that would be inconsistent with the 
opinion, that the Duke ought, notwithstanding, and with respect 
to those very charges, no longer to remain in his situation at the 
head of the army. There would be no dithculty in establishing 
the truth of the position here laid down, and doing away what- 
ever there was of seeming paradox in it, but I shall forbear from 
troubling the house for that purpose, as I collect from the gestures 
of the Honourable Gentlemen, that the contrary is not maintained, 
and that there is no intention of forcing upon the house a course 
of proceeding such as I had apprehended. 

I shall consider myself, therefore, as at liberty to treat the whole 
question from the beginning, as one, and not as restricted to the 
necessity of breaking it into parts, according to a prescribed form, 
deciding those parts as separate questions, and then, from the 
result of those separate questions, and the conclusions which the 
house shall severally have come to upon them, forming my opinion 
upon the whole. The main question is, what shall the house do 
in consequence of the body of evidence now brought before it 1 
What steps shall it take? What resolutions shall it come to? 
What advice shall it give ? 

In every view, and for every purpose, it is necessary to con- 
sider the nature and value of the evidence, the general heads 
under which it falls, and the main facts which it estabhshes. 
After the close examination which it has undergone, I shall be 
far from feeling it necessary to go into any minute detail ; it will 
be sufficient for me to state such remarks as seem to me at all 
material in the character and result of the leading parts of it. 
Among these, Mrs. Clarke's evidence stands foremost. She is the 
life and soul of the whole. Her testimony, if it is to be received 
implicitly, is at once conclusive. We are to consider what there 
may be to render any part of her testimony doubtful. 

Her general situation in the cause is certainly such as to expose 
her to great suspicion. She is so circumstanced as to be open to 
strong temptations to falsehood, both on the side of interest and 
of passion : and what ground of assurance is there that these 
motives will have been resisted? She is, in the first place, a 
woman without that virtue which is the great pride and ornament 
of the sex, and is, in the universal estimation of mankind, the 



CONDUCT OF THE DUKE OF YORK. I55 

great foundation and pledge of all others. However it happens, 
or in whatever way it is to be explained, it must be confessed 
(without wishing to bear too hard upon the frailties of the sex), 
that the loss of chastity in women, does carry away with it a 
great proportion of all their other virtues. But, Mrs. Clarke is a 
woman who is not only unchaste, but is publicly known to be so; 
that is to say, who is not only without virtue but without shame ; 
who has long incurred and become familiar to the opprobrium of 
the world; and has therefore set herself free from another security 
for right conduct, and one which is hardly less strong than virtue 
itself It is impossible to have seen her here without seeing what 
the effect of her trade lias been in hardening her against those 
feelings, which would have operated on most of her sex. 

These are presumptions arising from her general character and 
habits of life. There are others arising from the particular situ- 
ation in which she stands with respect to the transactions under 
discussion. She appears in the character of an accomplice. If 
the acts charged would be scandalous and flagrant in the person 
to whom they are imputed, she cannot be blameless or guiltless, 
who carried on a systematic traffic for procuring them to be 
done. — Upon this subject of accomplices, of the manner in which 
they are to be admitted into causes, and of the way in which 
their evidence is to reckon, we have heard a great deal from those, 
who should be presumed to understand it, but who certainly seem, 
on this occasion, only to have given b. new proof, that gentlemen 
of the legal profession do not form always the best conceptions 
of the principles of their own practice. — It may be said, indeed, 
of the whole doctrine of evidence, whether as we hear it treated 
daily by living practitioners, or as it is delivered in books and 
learned tracts of the most approved authority, that it is, what 
certain heads of disorder have been said to be with respect to 
physicians, the opprobrium jurisconsuUorum. One position laid 
down has been, that the evidence of an accomplice is to be 
believed only so far as it is supported by other proofs. If by this 
is meant only (what it would express however very inaccurately), 
that no one should be convicted upon the mere testimony of an 
accomplice, unsupported by other testimony or by other proofs, 
the position may be readily admitted ; but if it is meant that every 
part of the evidence of an accomplice requires to be so supported, 
the result must be, that the evidence of an accomy:>lice was of no 
effect at all, supposing that by support was meant complete support, 
that is to say, evidence so good as to be sufficient of itself For 
if by support here is meant only evidence imperfect or doubtful, 
such as might induce a belief, but not an adequate belief, then this 
description of the force and value of an accomplice's evidence, 
is no more than what might seem to be expressed in a simpler and 



156 CONDUCT OF THE DUKE OF YORK. 

more intelligible manner, by saying that it was evidence of an 
inferior kind, which had its weight, but was not fit to be relied on 
altogether. Whatever its value be, it must be something, otherwise 
there vvould be no sense or meaning in admitting it into a cause. 
If a witness can add to the credit of another's testimony, it must 
be by the effect of some credit, more or less, that is due to his 
own. A witness from whom you believe nothing but what you 
can prove by other means (or who, according to the language 
that we often hear, is to be believed only so far as he is supported 
by witnesses that are credible,) is no witness at all. 

I do not know, therefore, what can be made of a distinction 
which a learned judge (Mr. Burton) was endeavouring to set up, 
of the testimony of accomplices being good with respect to col- 
lateral or incidental circumstances, but not so with respect to 
those main circumstances which go to fix the guilt directly upon 
the party accused. You either give some degree of credit to the 
accomplice, or you give none. If none, it is needless to call him. 
If he is to be credited in any degree, the credit so given him, 
though possibly not the same on all the points on which he may 
have to speak, will vary by other rules than the mere application 
of the point in question to the condemnation or acquittal of the 
prisoner. — An accomplice, with respect to the mere effect which 
his testimony will have in influencing belief, is in the state of any 
other witness, whose credibility, supposing his accuracy to be the 
same, is to be estimated by his temptations to falsehood, and the 
probity which he may be supposed to possess, to guard him 
against such temptation. 

So much for the theory. As to the practice, I am afraid, it is 
sometimes carried as much beyond the limits to which theory 
would confine it, as there is at other times a desire to make it fall 
short of them. The case mentioned by my Honourable and Learn- 
ed Friend (Sir Samuel Romilly) is a strong proof of this. There 
can be no doubt, that, if the facts stated form the whole of the 
case, the prisoner was convicted solely upon the evidence of a 
man, who could not have given that evidence, without confessing 
himself a participator to the full extent, in the guilt charged. The 
conviction seems to have been a most improper one, and is not 
rendered better by the reflection, that the man who could have 
been so convicted, was certainly not a Commander-in-Chief nor 
a Governor-General of India. 

To return to the case in question. Mrs. Clarke is undoubtedly 
an accomplice, and on that, as well as on various other accounts, 
is to be heard with great distrust. But, still, her evidence is not 
to be rejected nor disregarded : and we are to consider what cir- 
cumstances there may be to repel or to do away a great part of 
the presumptions arising against her from the causes above stated. 



CONDUCT OF THE DUKE OF YOIIK. 157 

Though it may be too much to say (and far more than we are ' 
called upon to say by any evidence before us,) that she is, generally 
speaking, an unwilling witness; yet we know, of our own know- 
ledge, that she has been so in some instances, and must fairly be 
said to have given proofs of a great degree of moderation and 
forbearance. These are virtues often to be found among women 
whose lives and conduct have not been more regular than Mrs. 
Clarke's, and which she has displayed in several instances in a 
very marked manner. She would clearly have suppressed all the 
circumstances connected with Colonel Tonyn's business, if she 
had not been absolutely forced to produce them by the foolish and 
scandalous attack made upon her by General Ciavering, which 
completely drove her to the wall, and left her no option between 
the production of these facts and the confession (which she could 
hardly be expected to make, at the moment, too, when her evi- 
dence was correctly true), that she was a woman wliolly unde- 
serving of credit. Her credit, which is impeached by the circum- 
stances in which she stands, is thus in a considerable degree set 
up again, by the manner in which we have seen her act in those 
circumstances. She evidently cannot be treated as a w^oman, 
who is borne away by a spirit of resentment, which knows no 
bounds ; because she has shown that she is not so borne away, 
but is restrained by considerations, such as w^e cannot assume to 
be stronger than those which, even in a mind as little principled 
as hers, might prevent the production of evidence, known not to 
be true. 

If such seems to be the balance of the account between the 
presumptions for and against her credibility, which maybe derived 
from a general view of her situation and conduct, it remains to 
be considered, how these motives and considerations aj)pear to 
have operated in point of fact, and what is the general colour 
and character of her testimony ; such as we have heard it deliver- 
ed, and as we have it now before us. Various attempts have 
been made to entrap her in her answers, and to find out parts of 
her testimony in which she may appear to be inconsistent, either 
with others, or with herself. For my part, I must fairly confess, 
that these attempts, as far as I can recollect, did not, in any in- 
stance, appear to me to be successful. On those points where a 
difference occurred between her and Mr. Knight, it appeared to 
me, that Mr. Knight was quite as likely to be mistaken as she ; 
nothing was more easily intelligible than one of those on which 
so much stress has been'laid, as if it were difficult to be under- 
stood why she should express an unwillingness to the mention of 
the matter to the Duke of York. Mrs. Clarke had denied her 
having expressed any such unwillingness; answering rather to 
the inference which she saw was intended than to the fact itself; 
14 



158 CONDUCT OF THE DUKE OF YORK. 

and committing thereby, if her denial was false, a most unneces- 
sary deviation from truth: for nothing could have been more safe 
to her, than to admit to the full extent all that Mr. Knight ascribed 
to her ; namely, that she had given a caution to him not to repeat 
what he had heard, to the Duke of York. — For what is this notion 
that such a caution could only be necessary, on the supposition 
that she carefully concealed from His Royal Highness the traffic 
in which she was engaged? I believe, that she did, in fact, con- 
ceal it from the Duke ; that is to say, the corrupt part of it. But 
such a supposition is not necessary, to account for a wish on her 
part, that what passed in conversation between her and persons 
whom she was treating with, should not come round to His Royal 
Highness's ears ; because, though he were privy to these things 
ever so much, there was still reason sufficient, why he should not 
choose to be known to be privy to them, and might be very angry 
at the report of any conversation which should seem to fix upon 
him that knowledge. 

Scire meum nihil est, nisi nee scire hoc sciat alter. 

I may know that you take money for these services : but do not 
let any one else know that I know it. 

Of a sort equally unimportant were many other of the inaccu- 
racies or inconsistencies, which were supposed to have been dis- 
covered in her evidence. They were, many of them, upon points 
which she had no interest in representing one way more than in 
another, or on which, when the opposition was to the testimony 
of others, there was just as much probability of her being right 
as they. In general, I m\,ist fairly say, they were of that sort, 
which, instead of detracting from the authority of her evidence, 
only gave to it, in my eyes, a greater character of genuineness 
and authenticity. I should have suspected it more, had the inac- 
curacies in it been fewer. There was just about as much incor- 
rectness as might be expected in the answers of a person, who 
spoke without design or premeditation on transactions some time 
past, and which, many of them, had not been at the time the sub- 
ject of particular attention. It was impossible, indeed, not to. be 
struck by the general air of frankness and facility with which her 
evidence was characterized throughout. There was nothing of 
stiffiiess and preparation. There was no time taken to look for 
an answer, or to give to it any other shape, than that which it 
first received in her mind. She wrote a running hand. " She 
poured forth," as a great critic says of one of our poets, " a 
negligent profusion ; certain of the weight, and careless of the 
stamp." 

With this description of the general character of Mrs. Clarke's 
evidence, on what grounds, it will be asked, do I afterwards reject 



CONDUCT OF THE DUKE OF YORK. 159 

the truth of it? And, admittuig the truth of it, how can I resist 
the conclusion, that the Duke of York is guilty to the full extent? 
The answer is, that I do admit the truth of her testimony in all 
the parts to which the descri{)tion, above given, will apf)ly ; but 
that the description does not, nor by its nature can, apply to those 
parts by which alone the Duke of York must stand convicted. 

It has not been observed sufliciently, that Mrs. Clarke's evidence 
must be divided into two great heads, very unequal in bulk, and 
very unequal in consequence; and the largest, as it happens, not 
that which is most important. In all that part of the case, being 
nine-tenths or ninety-nine hundredths of the whole, which related 
to the existence of a corrupt traffic for the disposal of commissions, 
and to the transactions which took place in consequence, Mrs. 
Clarke's evidence deserves the character which I have given of it ; 
and is, I believe, true. But all this, without further aid, tells 
nothing as to the object of the, prosecution, viz. the guilt of the 
Duke of Y'ork ; whom no extent or variety in the existence of the 
abuse will ever touch, unless it can be shown, in some degree, 
that he was, or ought to have been, cognizant of it. Now, this it 
is, that makes what may be called the second part of Mrs. Clarke's 
evidence, to the truth of which, no inference can be drawn from 
the truth of the first; for it is subject to none of the same con- 
straints, nor can be judged of by any of the same criteria. It 
consists of half a dozen sentences, in which she speaks without 
the possibility of detection or confutation, or indeed, even of con- 
tradiction, except from the party himself. When she has told 
with perfect truth all her transactions with Knight, with Donovan, 
with Sandon, with Clavering, nay, many with the Duke of Y^ork 
himself, that which is to give 'effect to the whole, which is neces- 
sary to make any part bear upon its object, is a declaration that 
she in private conversations (conversations so private, that nobody 
was, or, it may be, could have been present,) J^ad made known 
all that she had been doing, to the Duke of York. Without this, 
all the story comes to nothing: and what connexion is there be- 
tween the truth of the story, and the truth of the declaration of 
her having told that story to a particular person ? Mrs. Clarke 
(I am among the first to admit) delivers her evidence throughout 
with the confidence and facility of a person who was speaking 
truth : but the presumption thence arising, as to the actual truth, 
is not the same in all parts of her evidence. Where it relates to 
matters falling within the cognizance of others, she proceeds fear- 
lessly, she speaks confidently, because she is in fact speaking truly; 
but in other parts, far more' material, she may speak with confi- 
dence only because she knows that, whether speaking truly or 
falsely, she is safe from detection. No one can ever convict her 
as to the truth or falsehood of declarations, said to have passed 



160 CONDUCT OF THE DUKE OF YORK. 

only between her and the Duke of York. Here she is covered 
with a shield of impenetrable darkness : she may say whatever 
she pleases; conviction can never reach her. In all the other 
parts of her evidence, she might safely tell the truth, because the 
truth was abundajiitly sufficient for all purposes, if it could be 
shown only that the Duke was acquainted with it. 

It must never be forgot, that the proof of this last point, namely, 
the knowledge which the Duke had of the criminal parts of thes§ 
transactions, rests entirely upon Mrs. Clarke, with no other support 
than what she can derive from Miss Taylor. I am far from 
approving the attempts that have been made to discredit and dis- 
parage Miss Taylor, or from thinking that they have been at all 
successfuk Indeed, their success would have been, in a great 
measure, their justification. If Miss Taylor's character was really 
bad, so as to render her undeserving of credit, the interests of 
justice required that it should be shown to be so, however the 
means employed for that purpose might be attended with conse- 
quences painful or prejudicial to her. But the attempts were 
neither successful, nor did they seem, many of them, to have been 
fairly directed to their object. What idea could we entertain of 
Miss Taylor's credit being destroyed as a witness, because she 
had not the virtue (if virtue even it would have been, in all the 
circumstances of the case) to break oft' all communication with 
Mrs. Clarke, her relation and benefactress, the moment she found 
she had formed an improper connexion with the Duke of York ? 
This might have been right : I will not say, that it was not : but 
it was a stricter right than we were accustomed to exact from 
persons from whom it might more fairly be looked for. Would 
we take this rule in our hand, and apply it to the trial of all that 
might be found in higher life? 

The fact is, that if Miss Taylor's testimony is to be arraigned, 
it must be on the ground of circumstances in the testimony itself, 
and not of the person who gave it. The case here is the very 
reverse of the former. Mrs. Clarke is a bad witness giving a 
good testimony. Miss Taylor is a good witness giving a testimony 
liable to considerable suspicion. Let Miss Taylor's evidence be 
examined in this view. The most unpleasant part of it is the 
expression, " How did he behave to you, Darling ?" Many Gen- 
tlemen have thought that this might be explained to mean, what 
was his general conduct towards you, in respect to being impor- 
tunate and troublesome? But I confess that it was difficult not 
to understand the word " behate" in a more restricted and tech- 
nical sense, well understood among persons in the class of hfe in 
which Miss Taylor might be placed ; and it is no answer to say, 
that Miss Taylor, or those whose expressions she was repeating, 
might not be persons very nice and critical in the use of their 



CONDUCT OF THE DUKE OF YORK. 161 

terms. There are no persons more correct in the use of such 
terms as they employ at all, than those whose vocabulary is small, 
and who use it without reflection or premeditation, merely to 
express ideas of daily occurrence, in conversation with persons 
as little studious of language as themselves. There is nothing so 
true as habit. While there is no ambition in the speakers to speak 
beyond themselves, the same words are used to denote the san^e 
ideas, and contract by use a degree of precision, whic^h can never 
be given them by thought and study. I would pit the most illite- 
rate person in this country, against the most learned professor of 
Dublin or Edinburgh, in the use of the words shal/ and itill ; and 
if I had heard in any part of the evidence, those expressions, now 
so familiar, of a person having done this or that ^^ hef<.re going 
down stairs, before getting into the coach," I should liave been 
sure that they were either not truly repeated, or were the expres- 
sions of a native of this part of the island. I cannot satisfy 
myself at all, therefore, that if this expression of " how did he 
behave ?" was truly cited, it did not signify all that was meant to 
be imputed to it. But I may easily doubt, whether the expression 
was truly cited ; and whether in the recollection of a conversa- 
tion, not very recent, and having nothing at the time, as far as 
appeared, to impress that particular part immediately on the mind 
of the witness, a little change may not have been introduced, in- 
sensible at the moment, but so establishing itself after a few repe- 
titions, as to maintain its ground against any subsequent elTort of 
recollection to set it right. I cannot lay much stress upon a cir- 
cumstance, which to some Gentlemen h:is appeared of importance, 
viz. that Miss Taylor should have recollected so accurately the 
particulars of this conversation, and have forgot so much of what 
had passed at later periods. Of irregularities of this sort, no one 
can fail to find examples in himself every day. The real circum- 
stance of surprise and suspicion is, that Miss Taylor should have 
so little recollection of what had been said to her subsequently in 
respect to this very conversation. She comes here wdth her story 
evidently ready cut and dry. It was not a point that had arisen 
unexpectedly in the course of examination, and on which she had 
related what her recollection furnished at the moment, as was 
often the case with Mrs. Clarke ; but she is brought to tell this 
very thing, which must therefore hav^e been the subject of previous 
conversation, and then seems to recollect nothing of what had at 
any time passed upon it. It is impossible not to regard a testimony 
so circumstanced, considering what it is in the case, from what 
quarter it comes, and in what manner it is produced, w^ith some 
degree of suspicion ; and to suspect here is to suspect the whole 
foundation of the question. The persons who look at this case 
loosely and carelessly, in the way in which it is looked at by ninety 
14* V 



162 CONDUCT OF THE DUKE OF YORK. 

parts out of a hundred of what are called the public, nCA'er per- 
ceive upon what a slender foundation the whole rests, upon what 
slender pivots it is made to turn ; they see a vast deal of charge, 
a vast deal of suspicion, a great mass of abusive practices, a great 
variety of facts, much the greater part of them proved; and they 
conclude from hence, that a great portion of the charge is proved. 
But when the matter comes to be examined as those ought to 
examine it who are to sit in judgme.Tt upon it, it is found that tlie 
only two points in which this bulky and imposing mass is made 
to touch the Duke of York, are in the evidence of Miss Taylor 
and Mrs. Clarke ; Mrs. Clarke speaking to communications made 
by her to the Duke with no person present, and Miss Taylor 
coming in in support of her friend, in a solitary instance, and 
where the whole force of her testimony depends upon her cor- 
rectness in the report of a particular expression. The passage in 
the note to General Clavering, I think, proves nothing but that 
which has been proved over and over, and need not be disputed; 
namely, that Mrs. Clarke made applications to the Duke for objects 
of this sort, and that the Duke did not always prevent her, as in- 
deed it would be difficult for him to do, from talking to him upon 
such subjects. What is wanted is a direct proof, or adequate pre- 
sumption, that the Duke accepted her recommendations, knowing 
them to have been obtained corruptly; and evidence to this effect 
we have none, except in the declarations of Mrs. Clarke, and the 
story, which I have been just examining, of Miss Taylor. 

This was all that we had upon that head in the shape of testi- 
mony. There was, it was urged, the general presumption, arising 
from the rate at which the Duke of York saw his mistress hve, 
compared with the money which he allowed her. Knowing that 
the one was inadequate to the other, the allowance to the expense, 
he must have been satisfied, it is said, that she had indirect means 
of profit ; and these could be no other than bribes received for 
the exertion of her influence. It may be true, that the Duke of 
York ought to have made this calculation ; but nothing appears 
to me more natural and likely than that in point of fact he did 
not. Persons bred to small fortunes and to economical habits, 
may find a difficulty of believing how any one could mistake in 
the proportion between his income and expenditure : yet, surely, 
examples of such mistakes are not wanting, nor fail to occur 
daily, even in the lower walks of life; and much more may they 
be expected in persons placed from their infancy above the want 
of money, and whose minds have been directed to any thing 
rather than the management of their own affairs. There is no 
Umit to the errors which such persons may commit, when en- 
deavouring to form such estimates ; and who knows that the Duke 
of York ever thought upon the subject ? He had not only his 



CONDUCT OF THE DUKE OF YORK. 163 

habits of idleness, but hfs habits of diligence, to contend with; 
and if any one would form to himself an idea of the business 
which a Comniandcr in Chief has to go through every day of his 
life, and ^vhich the Duke of York does go through, he would 
neither wonder at, nor be much disposed to blame, any instance 
of ignorance or inattention that might occur in the management 
of his private afiairs. Much of Mrs. Clarke's expenses, too, never 
came within the cognizance of her protector, and many of them 
possibly were never intended to do so. Her great dinners were 
all necessarily given when he, was not present. 

The reasoning, therefore, that would fix upon the Duke of 
York the gross charge of having connived at his mistress's cor- 
ruptions, inasmuch as he must be presumed to have known, that 
she could not otherwise have gone on without a greater debt than 
she was found, in fact, to have contracted, is of a nature infinitely 
too loose and uncertain to be allowed of for that purpose, what- 
ever shade of suspicion Gentlemen thinking more of it than I do, 
may consider it as casting over the whole of the case. 

Here the case' may be considered as closing, respecting that 
part of the charge on which the illustrious personage in question, 
and all those interested in his reputation, must feel beyond compa- 
rison the most jealous ; I mean that gross and foul part which 
w^ould impute to the Royal Duke the idea of participation or con- 
nivance. The whole of this, with the aid of such a surmise as 
that which I have recently adverted to, rests on the sole assertion 
of Mrs. Clarke, or, if you please, of Mrs. Clarke, backed by Miss 
Taylor. All the abundant proofs contained in the other parts of 
the evidence, the direct, the circumstantial, the proof by inference, 
the proof by assertion, tell nothing as to the point really in ques- 
tion, namely, the knowledge of these things (meaning always the 
corrupt part of them) by the Duke of York. With all your 
efforts, you never can get beyond the evidence of Mrs. Clarke 
and Miss Taylor; Miss Taylor, moreover, contributes nothing 
but a single and doubtful sentence. Yet, with three-fourths of 
those whom we hear talk upon the subject, the case is thought to 
be proved with a force of evidence that nothing can resist. There 
never was such a strange and blundering misconception ; unless, 
indeed, it shall be said, that such are always the misconceptions 
on subjects of legal proof, by those who have not the means, or 
will not take the pains, or do not possess the habits or talents, to 
examine them with legal accuracy. The proofs of the existence 
of the thing,^re given throughout, as the proofs of the Duke of 
York's knowTng it. Nobody ever doubts of the existence of the 
thing — that there was a corrupt traffic carried on by Mrs. Clarke 
and others. Of that we have evidence without end ; even if it 
were necessary to ask for any other than that of Mrs. Clarke 



164 CONDUCT OF THE DUKE OF YORK, 

herself. There her evidence is conclusive: it is the very best 
that can be had in any case. But her testimony, which is the 
best for that purpose, namely, to prove her own practices, is alto- 
gether as bad, when applied to the other purpose, which is all, 
however, that we have to do with, of proving by her ipse dixit, 
that the Duke of York was privy to them. Upon this evidence, 
however, we are now required to come to that conclusion. 

The other heads of charge in the ca'use are, comparatively 
with these, and as I think, in themselves, of so little magnitude, that 
though they have assumed a great consequence in the eyes of 
some Gentlemen, I cannot bring myself to dwell upon them at 
much length. The moral part of the question, as it is called, is 
one that, many Gentlemen tliink, ought of itself to call for the 
animadversion of the house. I certainly do not mean to set up a 
justification of that part of the Royal Personage's conduct ; but 
not feeling that this is a matter on which the house is called upon 
to animadvert, I do not feel that I am setting up a justification of 
it, by endeavouring to dissuade the house from taking any cogni- 
zance of it. Something must, after all, be yielded to the general 
habits and manners of the world ; and something also to the situa- 
tion of persons placed in the rank of life of the Royal Duke ; who, 
being deprived originally in marriage, of much of that free choice 
which is the happy privilege of persons in humbler stations, ought 
not, perhaps, to be called upon for an equally rigorous discharge 
of the duties attached to that state. There must be something, 
moreover, of general harmony and uniformity in the conduct both 
of individuals and of collective bodies, if they would wish either 
to gain credit for their motives, or to give authority to their ex- 
ample ; or not to risk the exciting feelings of ridicule, where they 
are anxious to impress sentiments of deierence and respect. I am 
afraid, that the present state of manners in this country will not 
admit well of a solemn resolution of the House of C'ommons to 
censure the Commander in Chief for keeping a mistress. If this 
were true in general, there is nothing to render the present in- 
stance an exception, so far, at least, as relates to those decent pre- 
cautions and observances which, by preventing the evil example 
from becoming public, do away, it must be confessed, a considera- 
ble portion of the mischief. It appears, by the evidence, that the 
Duke, in his visits to his mistress, preserved as much secrecy as 
it was easy for him to do. He never went in his carriage, or on 
horseback ; he never was attended but by one servant, and that 
servant always the same. If a Commander in Chief is to have 
a mistress, one hardly knows how he should regulate his miscon- 
duct, so as to render it less injurious to the public morals. Those, 
indeed, who urge this topic, hardly seem to consider it as a 
ground of charge which the house would have done right to take 



CONDUCT OF THE DUKE OF YORK. 165 

up original!}', though they are willing now to treat it as a sub- 
stantive charge. By the bulk of the house it seems only to be 
considered as a subject of animadversion, in as far as it has prac- 
tically led to consequences injurious to the public service. These 
consequences are of two sorts ; first, the injury done to the 
service by the adoption of recommendations, likely, in many in- 
stances, to lead to improper appointments. Secondly, the scandal 
given to the service and the country, by the suspicion that ap- 
pointments were to be so obtained. From the former of these 
the Duke of York stands, hi a great measure, acquitted by the 
very evidence brought forward to condemn him; because Mrs. 
Clarke herself states throughout, that the recommendations, which 
she delivered in, could only expect to succeed on the supposition 
that there was, in the things themselves, nothing improper; nor do 
I know, that in the case produced, there is any in which this con- 
dition does not appear to have been observed, except one, which 
I will speak to presently, I do not mean, however, to justify that 
sort of influence, which seems here to have been permitted, even 
when guarded by the condition supposed to have been annexed to it; 
because there is often a wide difference, if I may so say, between 
what is not improper, and what is proper. The mistress might 
recommend a man to whom there was no formal or oilicial ob- 
jection, but who yet was very far from being the person whom 
the Commander in Chief ought to have selected. There is no 
greater abuse either in the army or in the whole service of the 
state, nor which leads to more extensive consequences, but which 
is, at the same time, more inherent in the nature of things, and 
more impossible to be got at, than the abuse of patronage, in 
giving to favour what ought to be given only to merit. But I 
wish I could think that this was confined to Commanders in Chief's 
mistresses, and that in failure of theirs, other influences would not 
succeed, by which, in the allotment of promotions and prefer- 
ments, merit would be quite as much disregarded. Would the 
influence of members of this house, for instance, be solely guided 
b}^ the consideration of merit? Would the recommendations of 
fashionable ladies in the society of this town, be always directed 
to purer objects, or not sometimes to the very same, as those 
with which Mr. Donovan or Captain Sandon supplied Mrs. 
Clarke ? 

Of persons chosen, or of things done at her recommendation, 
absolutely out of rule, and which can be described as being im- 
proper in themselves, I know, as I have said, but of one or two. 
French's levy, which occurs to me at the moment, as additional 
to the one to which I have before alluded, is a very bad case, and 
such as may be well suspected to have originated in influence like 
that of Mrs. Clarke's. I have been long acquainted with its merits, 



166 CONDUCT OF THE DUKE OF YORK. 

and have contributed possibly in no small degree to its downfall, 
by papers respecting it which I (or an Honourable Friend of mine) 
have moved for in this house. Nor can I profess that I am satis- 
fied with any of the explanations that have been oflered ; though, 
here again, I should say, that those explanations were not so 
insufficient, nor the vices of the measure so evident from the 
beginning, as to make the adoption of it impossible except for 
some unworthy and sinister purpose. The other case is of a 
different description, of a description, indeed, peculiar to itself, 
and upon which, therefore, I shall say a few words. It is the 
case so much insisted upon of Samuel Carter. There is no case 
in which the Duke of York lies so much at the mercy of his 
accusers, but upon which he might so much have hoped for that 
mercy, which however he certainly has not found. It is a case 
for which there is no defence, but for which, in every generous 
and liberal mind, I should have thought, there would have been 
all possible excuse. Is there a bad motive to be found in it from 
beginning to end ? Mrs. Clarke had here none of those interested 
motives, which were apparent and were avowed in other in- 
stances. She had no money to make; no favourite to serve; no 
one whom she could wish to benefit but from motives that did 
her credit, and which belong to that part of character which is 
often found not to be lost when other virtues are no more. Had 
the Duke of York any bad motive 1 A compliance with the wishes 
of a mistress is surely not criminal, where those wishes are such 
as would do no discredit to a woman the most virtuous. But the 
thing itself, it will be said, was wrong. It was an indignity and 
insult to the army, to put among its officers a person taken from 
the condition of a servant, and that, too, a servant in the family 
of your misti-ess: a sentiment, which would probably in conver- 
sation be expressed in shorter and more forcible terms. The 
observation would be more just, if it could be added with truth, 
that such a principle had ever for a moment been avowed : but 
what is done clandestinely, and with a purpose of being for ever 
concealed, though it may be an injury, can hardly, even in pro- 
priety of language, be called an insult. As for the injury, it must 
here, as in every other instance, be estimated by the peculiar 
circumstances of the case ; and who shall say, that there are not 
daily admitted into the army, and unavoidably admitted, persons 
more discordant from its character and manners, than (it might 
happen) the person here in question? He is stated to have been 
well brought up, to have been well disposed : he was probably, 
though illegitimate, the son of an officer, and of an officer who 
had claims upon the service, and who, though too poor to educate 
this young man as his own son, had not so entirely neglected 
him, as not to have qualified him in some sort for what fortune 



CONDUCT OF THE DUKE OF VORK. 167 

might do for him. While those who wish to depress him to the 
utmost, witli a view of giving to the charge every thing that can 
be most invidious, are studiously characterising him as a foot-boy, 
they are not aware, that what they mean is the greatest aggra- 
vation of the act, is in fact a mitigation of it. To have been a 
foot-boy is much less than to have been a foot-7nan. The circum- 
stance of the duration of the time is not little : no one can be a 
foot-boy for very long. He will not be equally known to have 
been ''so, nor (which is not of less importance) will he be equally 
remembered. He will not be equally liable to be recognised, by 
his companions, walking into the parlours and drawing-rooms of 
those houses, where he has formerly waited in the lobby. But 
what is still more important, he will not have been equally con- 
taminated by the manners and habits of that condition of life. 
Every one has done and suffered in his youth without degradation, 
what would be disgraceful and intolerable at a more advanced 
period^ The stains contracted in youth may be purged off and 
disappear before the boy becomes a man. The mark wears out 
of his mouth ; and there is no reason not to believe, that, but for 
this unfortunate inquiry, and the very unnecessary and cruel 
manner in which the fact has been brought forth, the appointment 
of this young man would have been an act perfectly innocent as 
to its consequences, neither injuring any interest nor shocking any 
feeling, which persons most jealous of the honour of the army 
could have entertained. On the point just touched, upon the 
manner in which this fact had been bi'ought out, it is impossible 
not to contrast the conduct of many Gentlemen upon this occa- 
sion with their language respecting Miss Taylor. I have already 
said, that I disapprove many of the attempts made to discredit 
Miss Taylor, and to force into view circumstances of her history 
and family, which she has been naturally studious to conceal. But 
why do I disapprov-e these attempts ? Because I think that, while 
painful and injurious to her, they were unnecessary to the cause. 
But what shall be said, in this view, of the conduct pursued 
towards Mr. Samuel Carter? Is it less cruel and cutting to his 
feelings, an officer bearing His Majesty's commission, to have 
these circumstances of his early life brought to light, for which 
certainly he is not blameable; and himself held out as a disgrace 
to his profession, so that, being thus branded, he may find it im- 
possible to remain in it ? Here is a pretty good attack upon his 
feelings and upon his interests into the bargain. And where is 
the necessity for it ? Mrs. Clarke has expressly stated, that she 
entreated and stipulated, as far as she could, that Samuel Carter's 
case should not be brought forward. The Honourable Mover 
therefore, if this assertion of Mrs. Clarke is not a mere pretence 
and ffrimace, has not acted widi much gratitude towards his wit- 



168 CONDUCT OF THE DUKE OF YORK, 

ness and informant, even if he should be able to acquit hinnself 
upon the score of good faith. But what was the necessity of this 
for the interests of the cause? What is the necessity, compared 
with that which may justly be alleged in the case of Miss 
Taylor ? Was not it charge enough against the Duke of York, 
if it could not be fairly made out, that he had connived at the 
sale of his patronage, for the purpose of putting money into his 
mistress's pocket, but that you must take in, nnerely ad invidiam, 
and to excite against him the clamours of the army, and of those 
who had the honour of the army at heart, that, without any such 
base motive, and through mere compassion and kindness, he had 
bestowed a commission upon a person, whose condition of life, 
if known, would make the appointment highly offensive? But 
the importance of Miss Taylor's credit and evidence to the cause 
is of another kind. She is the sole witness that came in aid of 
Mrs. Clarke, in that part of her testimony^ which went to fix upon 
the Duke of York a privity to her corrupt dealings; and Mrs. 
Clarke, as that statement implies, and as I have largely discussed 
before, was the person upon whom the whole of the cause in that 
respect rested. It is of vital consequence therefore, that Miss 
Taylor's credit should be sifted to the bottom ; and those gentle- 
men have had a fair excuse to make, who in pursuit of that object 
may have pushed their inquiries a few degrees beyond what is 
absolutely necessary. Yet we have 'all heard, how pathetic the 
lamentations were, which were poured forth over the sufferings 
of Miss Taylor, and how fierce the indignation was against those 
who were in any degree the cause of them, while in the same 
breasts, the most stoical apathy had prevailed towards the wounds, 
so unsparingly and wantonly inflicted on Mr. Carter, who seemed 
to be of no more account with the Honourable Gentlemen, than 
a mere stock or stone, forming a v^ery fit weapon to be hurled at 
the head of the Duke of York, but having no capacity of feeling 
or of being hurt himself. I should have liked a little more im- 
partiality in the feelings as well as in the arguments of the 
Honourable Gentlemen alluded to. — It does not appear, though 
the fact may be otherwise, that this influence of Mrs. Clarke, how- 
ever improperly admitted, or by whatever causes put in motion, 
has produced any worse appointments or led to any more excep- 
tionable arrangements, than might have been likely to happen 
had she been wholly out of the question. Except in the two 
cases referred to, viz. those of Carter and French's levy, there is 
notliing that seemed even to call for explanation. Still it would 
have been a great evil and scandal, if the Commander in Chief's 
mistress was to be the channel of application and favour, in what- 
ever manner she might have used her influence. That she should 
never be allowed to open her lips upon such subjects, that no 



CONDUCT OF THE DUKE OF YORK. 169 

friend or connexion of her's should ever obtain through her means 
what he might have obtained at the recommendation of any one 
else, is a degree of strictness which it would be needless to require, ' 
because it is impossible to be hoped for. To exact it would only 
be to say in other words that no person having patronage to dis- 
pose of should ever keep a mistress: because, as long as that 
evil should exist, the existence of influence to such an extent as 
was here supposed, could hardly fail to make part of it. That 
an opinion prevailed of an influence to a far greater extent being 
possessed and exercised by Mrs. Clarke, and that many persons, 
not likely to part with their money lightly, did advance conside- 
rable sums under that persuasion, is to me no convincing proof 
that the thing was true: because there is no folly so great, into 
which the love of gain and the greediness of pursuit do not betray 
even what are called sober people ; as we see daily in lotteries, 
and in the numerous bubbles which are continually occurring: 
and because there is no opinion more prevalent, among certain 
classes of people (judging, it may be presumed, from their own 
feelings and practices,) than that there is not any thing of any 
sort which is not to be had for money. Of this we have had the 
most striking proofs in facts that had come out in the course of 
this very inquiry, but without making part of the cause itself 
What can be more striking in this view, than the conduct of that 
wretched creature Beasley, who thought that he had nothing to 
do, but to go with his money in his hand, and purchase a piece of 
church-preferment from the Duke of Portland. If any one be- 
lieves that these things are done, or any thing having the most 
distant resemblance to them, by persons, I won't say of the rank 
and character of the Duke of Portland, but having any claim to 
the character of a gentleman, and filling any office of credit in 
the state, he may believe that the prevalence of the opinion is an 
additional presumption of the reality of the thing ; but otherwise, 
it tells only in the way in which I have cited it; namely, to show 
what the gross and foolish ideas are which are entertained upon 
this subject, even by persons from whom better might be expected. 
It is idle to say, that experience would soon teach them ; that they 
would soon learn by the event, whether the methods which they 
employed were successful or not. In the first place, the persons 
are not necessarily the same ; but if they were, how numerous 
have been the instances at all times and on all subjects, practical 
as well as philosophical, where many have gone on upon a sup- 
posed experience, and have imagined a connexion between the 
effect produced and the means employed, which yet has had no 
existence. Half the gretit delusions of the world are of no other 
character : they see the fact, and they suppose the cause. These 
people give monev to procure promotion ; and promotion is often 
15 ' W 



170 CONDUCT OF THE DUKE OF YORK. 

procured ; but in many instances (as we have seen,) because the 
applications are of a sort, which would succeed equally in any 
other hands. Still the man who has given the money will, for 
that very reason, and that he may not stand as a dupe in his own 
opinion, be willing, and even desirous, to believe, that it is his 
money that has done the business. But the most conclusive proof 
of the facility with which men delude themselves upon these sub- 
jects is, the fact which we have in the very cause before ns, 
namely, that people went on in their applications and in their 
offers of money to Mrs. Clarke, after her connexion with the Duke 
of York had ceased, and when her influence of consequence was 
at an end. The fact that the Duke of York had got another 
mistress, and the inference from thence that the former mistress 
would hardly retain much influence, were neither of them, one 
should think, so difficult, the one to be ascertained by inquiry, 
and the other by reasoning, as to have escaped those sagacious 
men, who, it is said, never lay out their money but upon good 
grounds ; yet we see that, somehow or another, men were not 
wanting, whether sagacious or not I leave to others to determine, 
who continued to place their hopes in, and to advance their money 
to Mrs. Clarke, when her means of serving them had become 
entirely extinct. We should no longer, therefore, lay any stress 
on the argument, that the influence must have existed, for that 
otherwise, men would not have gone on laying out their money 
in purchasing it. The probability is, that there is not a single 
man in ofhce who has not some one about him who is selling 
every day the exercise of an influence over him, of which the 
principal has not the least perception. — Of this sort might very 
well be the influence supposed to be exercised by Mrs. Clarke, 
who, though she actually had, I have no doubt, some influence, 
yet might very well by a dextrous management of her applica- 
tions, by a judicious choice of her instances, by accommodating 
skilfully her language among her expectants, to what she could 
draw from her Royal Friend of the state of the fact, contrive to 
give to herself an appearance of ten times as much as she had, 
and to effect that, with the possession of some real influence, 
which so many accomplish without any at all 

The acts here supposed, as they apply directly to the question 
of the Duke of York's knowledge of what was passing, connect 
themselves naturally with another topic nearly akin to it, which I 
forgot to introduce in its proper place, and which has been much 
agitated under the name of connivance. Many Gentlemen have 
thought that a distinction can be taken between connivance and 
criminal connivance. I for one am not at all interested in such a 
distinction, because I am prepared to deny connivance altogether. 
I doubt indeed, whether the distinction can be successfully made. 



CONDUCT OF THE DUKE OF YORK. 17I 

If the etymology of the word is to be our guide, it is as difficult 
to split a ivink, as to split a hair : and if we are to follow the ordi- 
nary acceptation of it, the distinction became impossible, for con- 
nivance by the very force of the term is commonly made to 
include in it the idea of criminality. In that view to attempt to 
separate connivance from criminal connivance is to attempt to 
separate a thing from itself. But if nothing more is meant, than 
that men turn their eyes unwillingly to facts, the existence of 
■which would give them pain, that they are slow to admit unwel- 
come truths, there is nothing more easily understood or more 
famiUar to every man's observation and practice ; not in cases 
only where no criminality exists, but where from the nature of 
the thing none can possibly be suspected. What cases are more 
familiar than those of persons resisting to the last moment the 
belief of misconduct in those near and dear to them ? not because 
they are desirous of its continuance, but on the contrary, because 
the existence and continuance of it is a subject of the greatest 
dread, is the greatest affliction that can befall them. Will any one 
say of such persons that this slowness of belief, this unwillingness 
to be convinced of the misconduct of their wives or sons, is crim- 
inal connivance, and that they are parties to these acts which they 
deprecate ? Are people criminal parties to the dreadful maladies 
that threaten their own existence, because they shun enquiry into 
them, because they long disguise them to themselves and conceal 
them from others, because they dread to take opinions, for fear of 
what those opinions may discover to them ? — a species of conni- 
vance, it is to be feared, to which numbers are daily falling vic- 
tims, to whom, whatever else may be imputed to them, it would 
never certainly be imputed, that they are friends to the evils, 
which they thus avoid to acknowledge. A blindness of this de- 
scription is very likely to have existed in the instance in question, 
and may account for much of that with which Gentlemen seem 
to have been so much embarrassed, between the unwillingness of 
imputing to the Royal Person any thing so shocking as a wilful 
tolerance of such abuses, and the difficulty of believing that no 
suspicion of their existence ever entered his mind. A suspicion 
may very possibly have entered it, and have passed away, as such 
suspicions often do, without leaving any trace behind, or have 
been dismissed, as men do subjects that they are afraid to contem- 
plate. We may surely allow to the Duke of York as much 
incredulity about Mrs. Clarke's infidelities in respect to bribes as 
about her infidelities of another sort. If he could be so blind as 
not to suspect her with Dowler, where suspicion might be ex- 
pected to be pretty much awake, we surely have no right to pre- 
sume that he must have been so vigilant and clear-sighted with 
respect to her transactions with Donovan and Sandon. 



172 CONDUCT OF THE DUKE OF YORK. 

An observation of a contrary tendency has just occurred to me, 
which though not very important, nor occurring in its proper 
place, I do not care to omit. — In the endeavours to discredit Mrs. 
Clarke's testimony through the medium of instances in which she 
has evidently not spoken the truth, sufficient stress has not been 
laid upon the circumstance of her evidence not being upon oath : 
nor, except by my Learned Friend (Sir Samuel Romiliy),has the 
effect of that circumstance been properly argued. It is not suffi- 
cient to say that if the parts of her evidence in which she has 
departed from truth, (as where she denied having seen Dowler, 
&c.) were given not upon oath, so likewise were all the other ; 
that the proportion of the credit due to her in the different parts 
of her testimony is in consequence the same, so that she, who in 
an evidence, not delivered on oath, speaks what is false in one 
part, is as little to be credited in another, as she, who forswears 
in one part, is to be believed on her oath in another. This pro- 
portion does not hold good. It is obvious that it does not, by the 
common practice of life, without entering into the argument upon 
the subject. There are a thousand licensed deviations from truth 
by persons not speaking on oath, which do not in the smallest 
degree impeach the veracity of these persons when speaking, 
though still not upon oath, or any grave or important occasion. 
The principle plainly is, that men, when speaking not upon oath, 
think themselves authorized to exercise a discretion, founded on a 
consideration of the subject and of the circumstances, or of the 
degree in which a strict conformity to truth is exacted from them. 
A deviation in one part therefore implies no failure of that sense 
of duty, which should ensure veracity in another. ' On oath' on 
the contrary is understood, and meant to have the effect of exclu- 
ding all discretion. In evidence on oath all deviations from truth 
are alike ; omnia peccaia erant paria. The common expression 
'enough to swear by,' may be traced to that root — the conse- 
quence is, that he who swears false in any part of a testimony 
may justly be suspected of swearing false in every other. He 
who offends against the law in any part is guilty of the breach of 
the whole law. Mrs. Clarke's credit therefore in my opinion is 
not to be impeached, at least not materially so, in consequence of 
the deviations alluded to, as it would have been had she been 
speaking on oath — the grounds of my distrust (it is not necessary 
for me to say disbelief), of my refusal to consider her evidence 
as conclusive, is, that she is not entitled to be believed on her own 
mere assertion, in circumstances where she has the strongest 
tem.ptations to falsehood, and where she knows, that, say what 
she will, she is secure from all possibility of detection. 

It does not occur to me, though many smaller points have, I 
am aware, been omitted, that there is any thing important with 



CONDUCT OF THE DUKE OF YORK 173 

which it is necessary for me further to trouble the house, on this 
great division of the cause, viz. what is the opinion, wliich the 
house ought to form, of the guilt or innocence of the Duke of York 
in respect to participation or connivance ? When I give a decided 
negative to each of these charges, it still remains to be consider- 
ed, agreeably to the principle for which I have strongly contended 
in the beginning, what it is fit for the house to do, in respect to 
the continuance of His Royal Highness in the high and confiden- 
tial situation which he has held. Nothing is more clear than that 
the degree of proof necessary to convict a person of a crime, is 
far different from that which is sufficient for the removal of him 
from a situation of trust and confidence. The removal of per- 
sons from such situations, however painful to the persons removed, 
and so far partaking of the character of punishment, is often a 
matter merely optional, and which requires no reason to be assign- 
ed ; and even where reasons are necessary, or ought to be assign- 
ed, as in great public concerns, they are of a sort wholly differ- 
ent from those, which are required in cases of criminal judgment, 
that is to say, where, for alleged offences, pain or loss is inflicted 
on an individual, in violation of rights which he would otherwise 
have possessed. Who ever thought that a judicial process was 
necessary to induce this house to concur in an address, entreating 
His Majesty that he would remove his ministers ? It may be fit 
that ministers should be removed, not only without a crime pro- 
ved, but without a crime alleged. Though I should dislike the 
case, it is impossible to deny, that ministers, with all the merit 
that men can possess, may become unfit for their oflices, may be 
rendered incapable of serving the country, merely because the 
country, on grounds the most erroneous, has chosen to consider 
them so. I deprecate (nobody more) the sacrificing any one to 
public opinion, nor should any thing induce me to do so, in a mat- 
ter properly judicial. It is for this reason that I behold with indig- 
nation the attempts made out of doors, and countenanced, I am 
sorry to say, within doors likewise, to awe this house in the deci- 
sion, which we are to give, by the threat of popular displeasure ; 
that is to say, to set us, as judges, to try a question, and then tell 
us what verdict we are to give. If it is possible for any attempt 
to be more insulting and audacious, for any submission to be more 
degrading than another, it is the attempt thus made, and the sub- 
mission thus expected, and which many Gentlemen seem to think 
was expected justly. I will not suppose that any instance of such 
a degrading and criminal acquiescence can exist, but if there does, 
it is certainly not to be looked for among those, who acquit the 
Duke of York, but must be found, if at all, on the contrary side, 
and among those who are most inclined to vapour about their 
independence, and to talk of votes being given under an influence 
15* 



174 CONDUCT OF THE DUKE OF YORK. 

foreign from that of the merits of the question. This I say as 
appHcable particularly to the judicial part of the question, by 
which I mean the judgment to be pronounced on the question of 
guilty or not guilty of connivance or participation ; but a compli- 
ance with popular opinion merely as such, that is to say, as affect- 
ing the situation and interests of the person so complying, is 
hardly less base, to whatever part of the question it applies. When 
I talk of public opinion as deserving of any consideration, it is 
upon the grounds which I have stated, not as aflecting the indi- 
vidual giving his judgment, but as applying to the subject on which 
the judgment is to be. given. A great distinction must likewise 
be made, as to the nature and character of the public opinion 
supposed. Is it the mere cry of ignorance or malevolence ; of 
wantonness or of faction ; the clamour of persons having their 
own ends to answer, and not believing what they say ; and of 
others, believing only because they wish the facts to be true, and 
are delighted with any thing which tends to lower the great to a 
level with themselves ? Or does the opinion in question include in it 
much of the sound sense and sober discretion of the country, and 
proceed from persons not ill qualified to judge, nor hkely to have 
their judgment warped by undue feelings and motives ? If the pub- 
lic opinion is in any considerable degree of the latter description; 
as cannot, I fear, be denied ; attention is due to it, both on account 
of the persons themselves, and because, as the very statement 
implies, an opinion of that sort can not well exist, without some 
plausible grounds, that it is founded on truth. But, here again, a 
material question arises. Are the grounds, thus supposed, the 
mere combination of extraneous circumstances, or are they pro- 
duced by the conduct of the party himself, acting improperly, 
though possibly not in a way really to merit the suspicions which 
he has excited ? However hard it is that any one should fall a 
sacrifice to unjust suspicions, the hardship is less, and the danger 
to society less, when the suspicion is grounded on acts of the 
party, and those acts such as are in their own nature culpable. 
No one can claim from society the same protection against the 
consequences of his own misconduct, as is due to a person, who 
if not wholly guilty, is wholly innocent. This is the distinction 
which I took and acted upon in the case of a Noble Lord which 
formerly fell under the cognizance of this house. I declared at 
the time my persuasion, that the Noble Lord had not been guilty 
of the gross part of the charge : but I could not deny that ground 
was laid for the suspicion, by conduct of the Noble Lord which 
it was impossible to justify, namely, by the continued departure 
which he had permitted from the rule laid down in his own Act. 
Whatever therefore my own conviction might be, I could not 
deny the justness of the suspicion on the part of those, who might 



CONDUCT OF THE DUKE OF YORK, 175 

have less opportunity of knowing the Noble Lord than I had : and 
to that suspicion so formed, so much deference was due, as in 
combination with the misconduct, which was admitted, warranted 
the judgment which the house pronounced, even in the view of 
those, who, like me, might acquit the Noble Lord of the grosser 
part of that which the suspicion imputed to him. The suspicion 
was just, in respect to those who entertained it, thougli it might 
not be just, in point of fact, in respect to the Noble Lord. The 
same reasoning is applicable to the present case. The Royal 
Personage must abide the consequences of such a connection as 
he has formed, and the opportunities which he has aflbrded to 
such a testimony as has been given against him. It is not fit that 
a person of his description and situation should be allowed with 
impunity to place himself in a state in which suspicions of the 
most injurious nature can be entertained against him, by persons 
of good intentions and of reasonably sound and good judgment. 
' Caesar's wife ought not to be suspected.' While I am anxious, 
therefore, that the house should declare emphatically its disbelief 
of the accusations brought against His Royal Highness, I should 
hear, I must confess, with great delight, that no necessity existed 
for any further opinion, but that the Royal Personage had of him- 
self decided to quit a situation, which he could not hold, with sat- 
isfaction to himself, longer than while he could hold it to the gene- 
ral satisfaction of the country. Such a decision could not be 
construed as admitting in the smallest degree the truth of any 
thing that has been charged against him. Did it contain such an 
admission, I should find it impossible to recommend the adoption 
of it. It is a submission to public opinion, it is not a submission 
of an unworthy sort, nor to those parts of public opinion, which 
are undeserving of consideration. Nothing can do more credit 
to the feelings of the country, nor at the same time show more 
strongly the general purity of the administration of its affairs, 
than the commotion excited by any thing that has the appearance 
even of a departure from that purity. It is a feeling, which one 
cannot wish less, however the effects of it may be at times irreg- 
ular, and productive of injustice in particular instances. A hom- 
age paid to such a feeling is no admission of the truth of its ap- 
plication in the particular case. 

This is all with which I wish to trouble the house on the ques- 
tion itself. A very few observations only, I am desirous to offer, 
in answer to some reflections which have been cast on the part 
taken in this business, by those with whom I have in general the 
pleasure to act. They are accused of having been slow to come 
forward, or to give to the Honourable Mover that support at the 
time, which they are now, it is said, eager to proffer when he no 
longer stands in need of their assistance. This accusation does 



176 CONDUCT OF THE DUKE OF YORK. 

not touch me personally, who was absent at the time alluded to, 
having been detained, by circumstances, in the country, till long 
after the charges had been tully adopted. I have nothing, there- 
fore, to restrain me, so far as related to any former conduct or 
language of mine, from declaring in favour of any course of pro- 
ceeding, that I may now see fit: nor have I been backward, 
certainly, on other occasions to support unprotected accusers 
against powerful culprits, as in the case of the late unfriended 
and hardly-treated Mr. Paull, when accusing a Governor-General 
of India. But with these dispositions, and exempt as I am from 
any necessity of declaring my opinion at all, I cannot be easy 
not to say, that had I been present, my conduct would have been 
precisely the same as that of my Honourable Friends. What 
else could I have done than keep aloof from a charge, with the 
grounds and with the author of which I was equally unacquainted, 
and which certainly did not exhibit at the outset any thing so 
attractive, either as to the spirit in which it was conceived, the 
manner in which it was conducted, the success to which it was likely 
to lead, or the objects which it might be suspected to have ulti- 
mately in view, as that all to whom it was proposed must instantly 
fall in love with it, and rush impetuously to its support. In fact, 
the cause, as known to the Honourable Mover at the time, was 
not such as many men would have chosen to engage in, whether 
their own credit or the interests of the public had been the prin- 
ciple to guide them. For it must never be forgotten, that the 
cause is now in a very different state from that in which it was 
originally contemplated by the Honourable Mover; and that the 
principal part of the evidence, by which it is now supported, was 
as little known to him, and could be as little anticipated by him, 
as it could be by the house. But the matter does not end here : 
if much was wanting, that was necessary to invite support ; there 
was much on the other hand that must have the effect of repelling 
it. It does not tell greatly in favour of a cause, that it begins by 
a breach of confidence, and that it owes the possession of the 
main part of its evidence to an act of violence, committed in a 
house to which admission has been procured upon terms of appa- 
rent friendship. This is the statement admitted, or not contra- 
dicted, by the party. Mrs. Clarke says, that the papers were 
taken from the table in her presence, but both without her consent, 
and against her consent. If this protest of hers, made at the 
time, was mere pretence ; if her resistance was merely feigned ; 
if the whole was a sort of permitted rape ; or a little love-strug- 
gle, pfgnusdereptum lacertis, aut digito male pertinaci, I shall only 
observe, that it is not treating the house very respectfully, in a 
matter pretty important, if upon such grounds, they are to be 
made to believe, that Mrs. Clarke is an unwilling witness, and en- 



CONDUCT OF THE DUKE OF YORK. 177 

titled to all the additional credit on one side, which such a cha- 
racter would give her. But if the facts really are as she stated, 
and as the Honourable Mover does not seem to deny, if the papers 
were in truth taken by him from her table, he entering the house 
as he did, and she protesting bona fide against the proceeding, — 
other Gentlemen must think as they like, but I must declare, for 
my own part, that there was no one article of the charges, proved 
or unproved, which I would not rather confess to, than be guilty of 
the act so described. It is, at least, a pretty good reason why I 
have been shy, as my Honourable Friends are accused of being, 
of mixing in a cause of which such an act stands in the front. 

The Right Honourable Gentleman concluded with observing, 
that if the motion of the Chancellor of the Exchequer was pressed, 
and that no other alternative was offered, he must perforce, though 
by no means satisfactorily to himself, vote for the Address pro- 
posed by the Honourable Gentleman on the floor (Mr. Bankes). 

On the 15th the debate was concluded, and on a division, the numbers 
were, 

For Mr. Bankes's Amendment 199 

Against it 294 

Majority 95 

A second division took place on Mr. Perceval's Amendment to Mr. War- 
die's Address, 

For the Amendment 364 

Against it 123 

Majority 241 

X 



( 178 ) 
MR. CURWEN'S REFORM BILL. 

MAY 26th, 1809. 

Mr. Curwen moved the order of the day for resuming the adjourned de- 
bate on a Bill " for the better securing the Independence and Purity of Par- 
liament, by preventing the procuring or obtaining of Seats by corrupt Prac- 
tices." The Speaker explained that the question was, that he do now leave 
the Chair. Sir Francis Burdett opposed the Bill, on the ground of its insuf- 
ficiency to the purpose of such a Reform of Parliament as he considered to 
be called for by the country, as also, because he conceived the bill would ope- 
rate as an indemnity to past delinquencies. After some observations from Mr. 
Fuller and Mr. Wilberforce, 

Mr. Windham rose, and said : 
Sir, 

I AM well satisfied to have heard, before I address you, the 
speeches of the two Honourable Gentlemen who have last sat 
down, as those speeches will have helped to recall our attention 
to the question more immediately before us, from which the speech 
of the Honourable Baronet (Sir F. Burdett) had, in some mea- 
sure, led us away, though not to any topics, which I mean to 
describe, or which I wish the house to consider, as unconnected 
with the subject. Those topics are indeed most closely connected 
with it, as they are in themselves also of a nature and character, 
to which I must not fail hereafter to advert, and with which the 
house will, I hope, be duly impressed. 

In the meanwhile, I must fairly profess, that upon the subject 
of the question immediately submitted to us, I have found no rea- 
son, from any thing that I have heard to-night, or upon other 
occasions, or that my own reflections or inquiries have furnished, 
to alter the opinions with which I took the liberty of troubling the 
house on the night on which it was first brought forward. I 
equally think it a measure ill-timed, injudicious, founded upon false 
views, false facts, and false assumptions, calculated to produce no 
good in the first instance, and liable and likely to lead to the most 
serious mischiefs in future. 

The whole measure rests, 1st, upon an assumption, which, in 
he sense in which it is used, and the extent to which it is carried, 
I utterly deny, namely, that the transactions in question are cor- 
rupt ; and, 2dly, upon a position, which is true indeed, but of no 
effect or operation without the other, namely, that acts criminal 



MR. CUR WEN'S REFORM BILL. 179 

and abusive in themselves, cannot be protected by the length of 
time that they have been suffered to prevail, or by the number or 
authority of the persons, who have been found to practise them. 

Nobody pretends to say, that fraud, falsehood, theft, robbery, 
the whole list of crimes by which society is disfigured and injured, 
though co-evil and co-extensive with society itself, are, for that 
reason, less crimes, or call less for reprobation and punishment, 
than they did at their first appearance in the world. There are 
innumerable offences and depravities, which no authority can 
support, or sanction, but which will to the end of time pull down 
the character, and reputation of all those, be they who they may, 
who shall be found to have been guilty of them. What we are 
to inquire is, whether the acts now meant to be proceeded against 
are of that sort ? whether they are, Uke many others, acts which 
those who commit them know, at the time, to be wrong, tliough, 
under the impulse of strong temptation, they may not have the 
virtue to abstain from them ; which degrade the person in his own 
opinion, and would, if known, degrade him in that of others; 
which he is compelled to condemn at the very moment he yields 
to them ; which are attended in the immediate instance with in- 
injury to others ; or, at least, tend to weaken the authority and 
observance of some rule, which the interests of society require to 
be upheld ? Let us consider how the matter stands in respect to 
the nature and description of the act. Let us open the plead- 
ings by stating the case. 

A minister in the time of Geo. I. or Queen Anne, or King 
William, has a friend come to him, at the moment of a general 
election, who says, " I have a great interest in the borough of 
such a place. I have a large property, and I have laid out a 
great deal of money there ; I have obliged, in various w^ays, 
numbers of the voters and their connexions ; many are dependent 
on me, many look up to me for favours that they have received, 
or favours they expect: in short, I may venture to say, that I 
can bring in both members. One of the seats I must reserve for 
my son; but for the other I shall be very happy to take by the 
hand any one w'hom you will recommend. I have been always, 
as you knows warmly attached to you and your friends ; and 
anxious to give every support in my power to a set of men, whom 
I have always acted with in and out of office, and whom I rejoice 
to see in their present situations, because I think them in my con- 
science the fittest men to whom the interests of the country can 
be entrusted : I want nothing for myself, and should be very glad 
to offer this seat to your friend free of all expense ; but the sums 
which I have been obliged to lay out in cultivating this interest; 
the property which I have been obliged to" purchase, on 
terms yielding but a very inadequate return in point of income ; 



180 MR. CURWEN'S REFORM BILL. 

the heavy charges incurred in supporting the rights of the free- 
men in the two last contests, joined to the probable expense 
of the present election, will oblige me, towards replacing in part 
what these will have cost me, to require a sum to such and such 
an amount, from the friend, whoever he is, whom you shall re- 
commend." — The minister says, " I am exceedingly obliged to 
you ; nothing could come more opportunely : I have, at this 
moment, a young man, the son of our friend Lord Such-a-One, 
for whom I am most anxious to procure the means of his getting 
into Parliament, not only on account of our friend his father, but 
because he is a young man of most extraordinary promise, with 
his whole mind turned to public business, and likely to become in 
time one of the greatest ornaments and supports of the country. 
His father will, I am sure, have no objection to advance the sum 
whicii you require, and which is very moderate ; and you will, I 
am persuaded, be happy in introducing into public life a young 
man likely to do so much credit to your recommendation." 

All this I am taught to understand is grossly corrupt, much in 
the same way as any act of peculation or embezzlement. — I can 
only say, in the first instance, that I am sorry for it; because 
some such things have, I am afraid, been done even in the best 
times, and by those commonly accounted the best men. I am 
sorry to be obliged to part with so much of the admiration which 
I have been accustomed to feel for supposed virtue and character, 
and to confess that those eminent men, early and recent, whom 
we have hitherto looked up to as patterns of virtue and the pride 
and ornament of the country, were little better than corrupt 
knaves. It is painful, I say, to part with these convictions, and 
to be compelled to confess the world less virtuous than we had 
supposed it. It may be forgiven to us, therefore, if we make some 
struggle in defence of our former opinions, and if I venture to 
ask, as an humble inquirer, and for the sake of information, what 
is the precise nature and character of this corruption, and in what 
part of the transaction, that is to say, with which of the parties, 
it is supposed principally to reside. 

As to the minister, who is the party first seized upon, and 
against whom the charge is most pressed, his guilt can be only 
derivative and dependent on that of others. He is only the go- 
between, the broker, the pi-ocuress, if you please, who brings the 
parties together : but unless the parties meet for some ill purpose, 
his office is innocent. Of the two remaining parties then, which 
is the most criminal, the giver or the receiver? the buyer or the 
seller ? or is their guilt equal ? Let us know a little more distinctly, 
what are the rule and principles which we mean to lay down. 

Is it meant to be stated generally, that no place of trust and 
confidence, no place to which important duties are annexed, shall 



MR. CURWEN'S REFORM BILL. 181 

be disposed of for a valuable consideration ? that the sale of a 
place of trust is, in all circumstances and in every instance, a 
corrupt and criminal transaction? If it is, then does both the law 
and the practice of various countries, and of this country among 
others, sanction and authorise most corrupt and criminal trans- 
actions. I would quote, in the first instance, the whole of the 
parliaments under the old monarchy of France; which, though 
not parliaments in our sense of the word, were of a nature to 
make the disposal of seats in them for money, a proceeding, if it 
were wrong at all, infinitely more wrong than the same proceed- 
ing would he here. For the parliaments in France were judicial 
tribunals, courts of judicature, in which the whole civil and crimi- 
nal justice of that renowned and enlightened kingdom, was 
administered ; and where, in spite of those vulgar national pre- 
judices, under which we have sometimes been thought to labour, 
and which lead us to believe that nothing can be right or good, 
but what is conformable to our peculiar notions and institutions, 
justice was, for the most part, I believe, most ably and uprightly 
administered, and where certainly as great and eminent lawyers 
and jurists have been produced, and men of as pure and unspotted 
character, as are to be found in the legal history of any country 
whatever. Yet were all the seats in these assemblies, regularly, 
publicly, and avowedly bought and sold. So little do the effects 
of civil and political institutions, or the laws relating to them, an- 
swer, in fact and practice, to what the theories even of the wisest 
and best informed men, would previously pronounce of them ! 
That these tribunals, whether such or not as I have described 
them, could not be such as our coarse and narrow prejudices, or 
our hasty and inconsiderate theories, would lead us to suppose, 
is demonstrable from the fact. For no country, much less such 
a one as I am adverting to, would consent for ages together, 
that the whole source of its justice should be polluted and 
corrupt. 

But to avoid all reference to instances liable to dispute, let us 
only ask whether we have not, among ourselves, appointments, 
which, if not absolutely judicial, are very closely connected either 
with judicial functions, or with others not less repugnant to the 
admission of any thing corrupt or impure ; of which the sale is 
not only practised, but publicly tolerated and authorised. In what 
department, too, of the state, are these offices found? In the law, 
and in the church.* Is it not notorious, that part of the salary 

* To these should have been added the army. It will be curious to hear a 
general and unqualified condemnation of the sale of places of trust and con- 
fidence, in a country which publicly authorises the sale of all its military 
commissions, and in which the practice is defended : objectionable as it is, in 
16 



182 MR. CUR WEN'S REFORM BILL. 

or emoluments of our judges, the well-earned, necessary, inade- 
quate emoluments of our judges, arises from the sale of places, 
having duties belonging to them connected with the business of 
their courts? Yet does any man, on this account, impeach the 
integrity or purity of our judges ; which are on the contrary (and 
deservedly) the constant subject of our boast ? or find ground for 
insinuating that the functions of these offices are not as well per- 
formed, and the persons filling them, as respectable and proper 
persons, as they could be, if they were appointed in any other 
manner ? The church furnishes examples likewise, which, if not 
directly in point, equally contradict the position above supposed, 
if laid down to its full extent ; and in such a manner as not to 
shelter itself under the distinction, not a very creditable one, be- 
tween an actual and a virtual sale. For what does any man do, 
who purchases or who sells the advowson of a living? or who 
purchases or sells the next presentation ? does not he, both in effect 
and intentionally, purchase or sell the nomination to an ofhce of 
the highest trust and confidence ? and if this be morally wrong, 
can it cease to be so, because the act of appointment is not to 
take place immediately, but is, in some degree, contingent and 
remote? Can that which is corrupt and criminal, if carried into 
effect immediately, become perfectly innocent, because the exe- 
cution of it is made to depend upon an event, which, though cer- 
tain, may not happen for several months ? It is impossible, there- 
fore, to maintain, that the sale of seats in parliament is corrupt, 
simply upon the principle, that it is corrupt to take a valuable 
consideration for a nomination to a place of trust and confidence. 
The known, recognised, authorised, avowed practice of our own 

various respects, and unknown to the ordinances of any other service ; upon 
the ground of its being the best method for keeping- down the military in- 
fluence of the crown. 

Nothing can mark more strongly, in what a loose, careless, and summary 
way, upon what inri perfect consideration and hasty views, opinions are often 
formed and acted upon, even in matters of the highest concern. The authors 
of the bill, notwithstanding the care and thought they must be presumed to 
have bestowed upon a measure replete with so many important consequences, 
appear totally to have overlooked this (rather prominent) instance, of the army. 
It ought, at least, to have been noticed. It is not sufficient to answer that 
the two cases are not precisely, and at all points, the same. What two cases 
are precisely the same 1 The army is, at least, a case in point, in an argu- 
ment which proceeds throughout on an assumption, that the sale of a place 
of trust and confidence is in genere a corrupt act. At any rate, the difference 
between the two cases is not the difference between all and none ; between 
the most furious and unrestricted reprobation, and the absence of even a sus- 
picion, that there was any thing amiss. 



MR. CURWEN'S REFORM BILL. 183 

country, in departments the most exempt from any suspicion of 
impurity, and where the admission of any thing incorrect would 
be most anxiously guarded against, is in direct contradiction to 
such a position. 

"We have still, therefore, to look for the ground on which either 
the buyer or the seller, in such a transaction as that above stated, 
is to be represented as being a man morally corrupt. In fact, if 
their proceeding is corrupt, it will be difficult, or as I should say, 
utterly impossible, to stop there, and not to go on, and declare 
corrupt the very influence itself, by which they are enabled to 
carry into effect this corrupt bargain. If the buying and selling 
be corrupt, it can only be so for reasons, which will make it cor- 
rupt to have the commodity which is capable of being so bought 
and sold. This is the true seat of the grievance, as, it must be 
confessed to be, the true place in which to apply the reniedy. So 
long as there are persons in a situation to say, I can make an 
offer of a seat in parliament, so long will there be persons to treat 
with them for that object, and so long will means be found, for 
commuting in some way or other the influence so possessed, for 
considerations valuable to the possessor. The only effectual way 
will be to get rid of the influence altogether ; — to make it penal 
for any one to have such goods in his possession. This, the 
Honourable Mover may be assured, is the use that will be made 
of his measure (nay, it is the just and legitimate use) by those, 
who do not scruple now to oppose it, because they like to argue 
the question both ways, to be ready for either event ; and may 
think, possibly, that more is to be gained by procuring the rejection 
of it, and by the ground thereby laid for raising a clamour against 
parliament, than they can hope for from the argument and the 
authority which it will furnish, towards subverting the greater 
part of the influence, which property is now allowed to retain. 

I know how prompt the answer to this will be, and how tri- 
umphantly I shall be told, that no two things can be more remote 
from each other, than the influence of property, the just, whole- 
some, legitimate influence of property, and the sale of seats. — 
But let us recollect that, in the present business, we are arguing 
throughout upon principle, and that it is of the nature oi principle, 
to unite things the most various and opposite in their individual 
forms and circumstances. It is not a question how far things may 
be distinguished : but how far those, which are naturally distin- 
guished, may be assimilated and made one. Those who can 
make no distinctions between an offence against the bribery laws, 
by giving money to a particular voter, and the sale of a seat, 
can hardly be expected to distinguish between the sale of a seat, 
and such a use of influence as will give them the seat to sell. 

I am as well aware as another, that there is much influence 



184 MR. CURWEN'S REFORM BILL. 

which, though ultimately to be traced to property, is so remote 
from its primary source, has been so changed in the gradations 
which it has passed through, has been so improved by successive 
graftings, as to retain little or nothing of its original character, — 
of the harshness and acerbity of the parent stock. The case is 
the same as with that passion in our nature, which, though too 
gross to be named, is often the source of every thing delicate 
and sentimental ; which, as the poet describes, 

through some certain strainers well refined, 

Is gentle love, and charms all woman-kind. 

All, in these instances, that property may have done, is to have 
given to virtue the means of acting, and the opportunity of dis- 
playing itself; to have furnished the instrument without which its 
energies must have been useless, and to have erected the stage 
without which it would have remained unknown. I am under 
no apprehensions for the fate of influence of this sort. My Hon- 
ourable Friend and others, notwithstanding the operation of this 
bill, will' be at full hberty, I trust, to lay out their thousands in 
acts of beneficence and bounty, in building bridges, or endowing 
hospitals, in relieving the wants or advancing the fortunes of the 
indigent and meritorious. They may still enjoy, together with all 
the heartfelt satisfaction, all the influence which will naturally 
arise from property so employed ; 

Him portion'd maids, apprenticed orphans blest, 
The young who labour, and the old who rest. 

But is this the only way in which property exerts its powers ? 
Is it always taken in this finer form of the extract or essence 1 is 
it never exhibited in the substance ? It is here that the comparison 
will begin, and that the question will be asked ; which the advo- 
cates of this bill, who do not mean it to extend to the abolition of 
the influence of property, will do well to be prepared to answer ; 
How, if the sale of a seat or any commutation of services con- 
nected with such an object be gross corruption, can we tolerate 
the influence which property gives, in biassing the minds of those 
who are to give their votes? How a landlord, for instance, should 
have any more influence over his own tenants, than over those of 
another man? How a large manufacturer should be able to bring 
to the poll more of his own workmen, than of those employed in 
the service of his neighbour ? How an opulent man of any descrip- 
tion spending his fortune in a borough town, should be able to 
talk of his influence among the smaller tradesmen : or be at lib- 
erty to hint to his baker or his butcher, that, laying out every 
week such a sum with them, as he does, he expects that they 
should oblige him by giving a vote to his friend, Mr. Such-a-One, 
at the next election ? If all this is not corrupt, upon the principles 



MR. CURWEN'S REFORM BILL. 185 

on which we are now arguing, I know not what is. What has 
money spent with tradesmen, or work given to manufacturers, or 
farms let to tenants, to do with the independent exercise of their 
right, and the conscientious discharge of their duty, in the election 
of a member to serve them in parliament? A fine idea truly, 
that their decision in the choice of a representative is to be influ- 
enced by the consideration of what is best for their separate and 
private interest ! or that persons, the advocates of purity, and who 
will hear of nothing but strict principle, should attempt to distin- 
guish between the influence which engages a man's vote by the ofler 
of a sum of money, and that which forbids the refusal of it, under 
the penalty of loss of custom or loss of work, or of the possession 
of that on which his wife and family must depend for their bread 1 
I shall be curious to hear in what manner, not the advocates of 
this bill, but the advocates for the principles on which this bill is 
enforced, will defend themselves against these questions ; and be 
able to show, that while it is gross corruption, gross moral depra- 
vity, in any one who possesses such influence, to connect his own 
interest with the use of it, even though he should not use it impro- 
perly, it is perfectly innocent to create that influence by the means 
just described? Or on the other hand, if such means are not law- 
ful, how the influence of property is to continue, such as it has at 
all times subsisted in practice, and been at all times considered as 
lawfully subsisting? It is indifferent to me which side of the alter- 
native they take ; but let them be well aware that such is the al- 
ternative to which they will be reduced ; and that if they contend 
generally, as is now done, that such and such things are corrupt, 
because they admit the consideration of interest in matters which 
ought to be exclusively decided on principles of duty, it is in vain 
for them hereafter to contend that any man has a right to influ- 
ence his tenants, or tradesmen, or workmen, by any other means 
at least than those by which he may equally influence the tenants, 
tradesmen, or workmen of any other person ; that is to say, by 
his talents or by his virtues, by the services which he may have 
done, and the gratitude he may have inspired. 

When I look, therefore, to the moral qualities of these acts, as 
independent of and antecedent to positive law, I am at a loss to 
find what it is, either on the score of principle or of authority, 
that determines them to be corrupt, or that enables us, if they are 
corrupt, to exempt from the same sentence of corruption nine- 
tenths of the influence, which has hitherto been supposed to be 
attached, and legitimately attached, to property, and which, for 
aught that at present appears, there is no intention of taking 
away. 

But though such may be the result of an inquiry into the moral 
constitution of these acts, there can be no doubt, that the law 
16* Y 



186 MR. CURWEN'S REFORM BILL. 

may render coi-rupt any act which it pleases, that is to say, the 
law may make any act which it pleases illegal ; and to do, or 
procure to be done, an illegal act, from an interested motive, is, I 
apprehend, corruption. 

We are to inquire therefore, in what manner and to what de- 
gree, those acts, which generally speaking are not corrupt, have 
been rendered so by positive law. And first, without affirming or 
denying the fact, let us examine the conclusiveness and validity 
of the arguments, by which it has hitherto been attempted to be 
proved. It has been said by those from whom I should have ex- 
pected better reasoning, that the corruption follows of necessity 
from the law^s respecting bribery in the case of individual voters; 
for that it is impossible that the law should be guilty of such mon- 
strous inconsistency, as well as of such flagrant injustice, as to 
punish the poor for bribery in retail, while they suffer it to be 
practised with impunity by the rich in wholesale. 

There is something so widely inconclusive in this argument, as 
to make it difficult to set about formally to confute it. I cannot 
better illustrate its fallacy than by an argument something of the 
same sort, quite as good in respect to conclusiveness, and much 
better in respect to point and archness, which I remember to have 
heard, as a boy, at a contested election for the county of Nor- 
folk; where one of the candidates, a most respectable man, had 
rendered himself obnoxious by the inclosure of a common (a pro- 
ceeding less familiar at that time, and better calculated thei^efore 
for a subject of popular clamour) ; upon which the wit of the day 
was to ask, in way of dialogue, what that man deserved who 
should steal a goose from a common ? and when the answer was 
given, to follow up the question by another, what then shall be 
done to him who steals the common from the goose? This was 
very good election wit, but certainly very bad argument, (though 
just as good as that to which I have been adverting ;) for what is 
the affinity between the two offences, so as to justify the consid- 
ering the one, as differing from the other, only by being upon a 
larger scale ? A man by procuring the enclosure of a common, 
where such enclosure ought not to take place, may do a much 
worse moral act, with less temptation probably, and with far more 
injury to others' interests, than by the theft of many geese : yet 
who would ever dream of describing these as kindred acts, or 
propose that the encloser of commons, if convicted of having 
enclosed when he ought not, should be punished by imprisonment 
and whipping? Other instances may be cited more directly in 
point. There are, or have been, I believe, laws to restrain the re- 
tail sale of spirits. Should we think that a man argued very 
wisely or conclusively, with much fairness of representation, or 
much knowledge of the principles of legislation, who should ha- 



MR. CDRWEN'S REFORM BILL. 187 

rangue at the door of an alehouse (the only place however fit for 
such a discourse) against the justice of laws, who could punish a 
publican for selling a dram to a poor wretch, who wanted it per- 
liaps to solace him under the effects of cold and hunger, to whom 
it must stand in the place of food and raiment ; while the same 
law did not scruple to permit the sale of these spirits by whole- 
sale on the part of the rich merchant or still more opulent planter? 
and should take occasion thence to ask (exactly in the style of 
my Honourable Friend) if such was the punishment for selling a 
dram or gill, what did they deserve who sold these spirits by 
puncheons and ship-loads ? The answer is, that these acts do not 
stand to each other in the relation of more or less, but are per- 
fectly disparate or dissimilar ; are productive of different conse- 
quences ; are to be regulated by different provisions ; are so wide- 
ly separated in character, as that the one may be an object of 
national encouragement, a source of public wealth and benefit, 
while the other can produce nothing but mischief, and is a prac- 
tice requiring to be restrained by penal statute. Nothing therefore 
can be more false than the inference by which it is concluded 
that the sale of a seat, in cases where it can be effected, must be 
deemed corrupt, because there are laws which prohibit the gift of 
money to individual voters. Both may be corrupt, and both may 
require to be prohibited : but not the one on account of the other. 
Supposing however the fact to be, that by fair construction of 
the law of parliament, such bargains as are here in question, 
must be considered as illegal, and may in consequence be denomi- 
nated corrupt : it is so far from following that the present bill is 
therefore necessary, that the presumption would rather lie the 
other way, and the conclusion be that a new bill was not wanted ; 
inasmuch as it could only prohibit that which was already pro- 
hibited. In general, the precedent of any law tells as much for 
what it does not, as for what it does. If we have the authority 
of our ancestors for doing so much, we have their authority also 
for doing no more. If they tell us, that such things ought to be 
prevented, they tell us likewise, so far as their practice is our 
guide, that the attempts at prevention ought not to be pushed be- 
yond a certain extent. It is undoubtedly true, that laws, right in 
their object, may be deficient in their means, or that change of 
times and circumstances may require new penalties and provi- 
sions to effect that to which the old were formerly adequate. But 
then this change and this necessity should be shown ; and after all 
it is no just conclusion, that because our ancestors wished to pre- 
vent certain things by certain means, they would therefore be 
wiUing to accomplish their object at any price, or have recourse 
to any means, be they what they would, which the attainment of 
that object might require at a subsequent period. 



188 MR. CURWEN'S REFORM BILL. 

Our business therefore is to ascertain, what it is right for us to 
do, with respect to an object, on which neither morals, nor law 
as antecedently established, prescribe to us any certain mode of 
action, nor even impose upon us the necessity of acting at all. — 
The acts in question are not in themselves corrupt or immoral. 
The law has either prescribed nothing about them, or, having 
prescribed what it has thought fit, has left, to say the least, the 
necessity of any further provisions, to the judgment of the legis- 
lature of the time. — It may be, that what it is proposed to sup- 
press is a pohtical evil, tending to render parliament a less fit in- 
strument for promoting the general w^elfare. If it is so, let us, in 
God's name, set about in earnest to devise the means of suppress- 
ing it: taking care always as in other instances, that in eradica- 
ting what is bad, we do not injure what is good, that in removing 
one evil we do not introduce others of far greater amount. But 
with this view, let us be sure, that attempting change, with all the 
dangers to which change is liable ; particularly in a machine so 
delicate, so complicated, the movements of which can be so little 
defined, and are so imperfectly understood, as those of the Bintish 
constitution ; we are not proceeding upon assumptions, which we 
ourselves at the moment suspect to be false, and which we adopt 
rather in compliance with the clamour of persons out of doors, 
than in conformity to our own sober, deliberate, and unbiassed 
judgment. 

It is in fact in deference to the former of these motives, that 
is to say, to the voice of what is called The Public, that the adop- 
tion of the measure now proposed is principally urged. And this 
being the case, it is in a more especial manner incumbent upon 
us, to consider what is the nature of this call, by what causes it 
has been excited, with what circumstances it is combined, and 
from what classes and descriptions of persons it chiefly proceeds. 
It would be the height of weakness and folly in any case to 
adopt a great political measure without considering something 
more than the mere measure itself, without looking to the right 
and to the left, and inquiring what consequences it was likely or 
liable to produce beyond those immediately in view. 

We have been told that this measure has nothing to do with 
the great question of Parliamentary Reform. If this be so, we 
have all been under a strange misconception, for, with one excep- 
tion only, not a gentleman has spoken upon the measure, on either 
side, or in any stage of its progress, who has treated the subject 
upon any other footing. It would in fact be perfect childishness 
to consider this measure, otherwise than as arising out of the tem- 
per and fashion of the times, and as part of that wild rage, which 
has suddenly seized us ; nobody knows why or whei-efore ; for 
pulling to pieces the government and the constitution. It is one 



MR. CURWEN'S REFORM BILL. 189 

of the introductory steps, which, it is lioped, may lead us in time 
to conclusions of greater importance: one of the early symptoms, 
the little eruptive pustule which shows, that we have received the 
infection, that the disease has got hold of us. The disease itself 
is however denied; and we are required to believe, that the whole 
of the present cry originates in nothing, but in the abuses recent- 
ly discovered in the business of the Duke of York, 

Let this opinion be examined. The amount of what the Inqui- 
ry into the Conduct of the Duke of York has discovered, is, that 
the mistress of a man in power had received m.oney for the use 
of the influence, which she had, or pretended to have, in procu- 
ring places and appointments. This, if it stood alone, would be 
an odd ground for bringing a general charge of corruption against 
the government, or even for arraigning the person himself: for 
who is there in office that is not surrounded by connexions, official 
and others, by whom such a pretence of influence might at any 
time be set up, and by whom, in many cases, it might be main- 
tained, with a degree of plausibility far more than sufficient for 
imposing upon persons who by their eagerness and their ignorance 
have shown themselves, as we have seen, so well prepared to be 
imposed upon ? As for participation or connivance, though there 
are persons who accuse the Duke of both of these, their numbers 
are few, (speaking always of those whose quaUfications for judg- 
ing are such as to make their judgment of any value,) and even 
of those few, fewer still think that their suspicions, whether true 
or false, admit of any sufficient proof The whole of the proof, 
with the exception of a single doubtful passage from Miss Taylor, 
rested on the authority of such a witness as Mrs. Clarke, speak- 
ing, too, to facts which passed only between her and the party 
accused.* 

* Since the above remarks were made, some curious circumstances have 
occured, materially affecting the complexion of the cause as it appeared ori- 
ginally before the House of Commons. 

Colonel Wardle has found out that his principal witness, the witness on 
whose testimony the charge, as applicable to the Duke of York, almost exclu- 
sively rested, was a person not fit to be believed upon her oath. 

It is thought perfectly right and fitting, that Mrs. Clarke's unsworn and 
unsupported testimony, on a question of private conversation, in which she 
and the party accused were the only persons present, was to be good against 
the Duke of York ; while her sworn, supported, and, till the last trial, uncon- 
tradicted testimony, in matters not passing in secret, and in support of facts 
having nothing in them incredible or even difficult of belief, was not to be 
good against Colonel Wardle. 

This is popular justice ! 

Considering what was the point really at issue in the late trial, it is diffi« 



190 MR. CURWEN'S REFORM BILL. 

Yet with all this, such is the surprise excited in this country by 
a suspicion even, of corruption in persons of high rank and sta- 
tion, and such the commotion which any suspicion to that effect 
never fails to create, that the Duke of York, a member of the 
royal family, the King's own son, in full possession of his father's 
favour, and of the respect and good will of the greater part of 
the nation, is fain to quit the situation of Commander in Chief, 
which he has held with credit for fourteen years and more, and 
to withdraw into retirement, sooner than run the risk of the steps, 
which parhament, it was feared, would otherwise be induced to 
take. 

Can any man believe that it was an instance like this which has 
inspired the country with a distrust of its Government, and ex- 
cited a desire of new-modelling its parliament, as being too sub- 
missive to the wishes of the court? We must look to other 
motives and purposes ; to which the present bill is meant to serve 
as an instrument, and for which the business of the Duke of York 

cult to say, which of the two decisions, the one for, as it is called, or the one 
against, was that which Colonel Wardle ought most to have deprecated. If 
the credit of his witness was established, he stood convicted of having made 
pecuniary engagements, for the purpose too, as it must appear, of suborning 
evidence, and of refusing afterwards to make them good. If, on the other 
hand, his witness was disbelieved ; in which case she could be considered 
only as a woman deliberately perjured ; what atonement or apology could he 
make to the several parties and interests, which had suffered or been endan- 
gered by his proceeding, (to the Duke of York, the immediate object of the 
attack ; to the King, whose best feelings had been tortured ; to the House of 
Commons, whose confidence had been abused, whose time had been misspent, 
and whose character had been committed, to the general cause of injured 
justice;) for having brought forward a cause, which, in the sole material 
point, namely, the application of the charge to the person accused, was to 
rest principally, if not exclusively, on the testimony of such a witness 1 And 
it must not be supposed, that the dilemma, to which Colonel Wardle is thus 
reduced, is one that can be retorted upon those who urge it, or be made to 
tell in favour of him as well as against him. Though the conclusion be in- 
evitable, that if Mrs. Clarke was forsworn on the trial, she was not a credible 
witness in the Examination before the House of Commons, it does not follow 
e contra, that the belief of her testimony in Court, where she was examined 
upon oath, and was speaking to matters that passed in the presence of otiiers, 
implies the necessity of believing her, when she was not upon oath, and was 
delivering a testimony, which, whether true or false, left her equally free 

from the possibility of detection. (This note was subjoined to the text by 

Mr. Windham, when the speech was separately printed in the form of a 
pamphlet, — Ed,} 



MR. CURWENS REFORM BILL- 191 

is made to serve as a pretext, being after all, it must be confessed, 
a very flimsy and sorry one. 

Upon wiiat principle is it that we are told, that it is to libel the 
people of England, to say that there are among them thousands 
and thousands, who wish the destruction of the present order of 
things, and who are labouring night and day to carry into efiect 
that laudable purpose? And with what decency, it may be added, 
is this libel complained of by those, who are every day libelling 
this house, and all the higher orders of the state, in the grossest 
and most unmeasured terms? Why is it more a libel than to say, 
that there are among the people of England, robbers, murderers, 
and 'housebreakers, and offenders of all descriptions, and who, 
numerous as they are, would soon show themselves in tenfold 
greater numbers, if the fear of the law did not keep them down? 
Are there not as powerful motives, passions as fierce and strong, 
and interests as tempting and urgent, to arm men for the over- 
throw of all Government, as there are to incite them to depreda- 
tions on private property, or any other act of violence ? There is 
no Government, bad or good, that can boast of owing its stability 
(or quiet, at least,) to any other cause than to the dithculty and 
danger which is opposed to every attempt to subvert it. Let but 
the project be easy, let but hopes be entertained of its success, and 
thousands will be found, who, from motives of different sorts, — 
some from folly, and some from wickedness; some because they 
know not what they are about, some because they do know ; some 
as knaves, and more as dupes ; many from motives of interest, 
and more from motives of passion; some because they hale one 
part of the establishment, and others because they hate another; 
some as mere fanatics, and because they have entangled their un- 
derstandings (commonly of the most inferior cast) in speculations 
to which they are wholly unequal ; others from mere restlessness 
and love of something to do ; but far the greater part, from some 
species of bad passion or other, (not excluding, of course, those 
most powerful and general ones, vanity and love of distinction,) 
are desirous of seeing some great change in the order of things 
as they find it established : not all of them, by any means, desiring 
a change of the same sort, or to the same extent : Oh, no ! but 
all of them a change suited to their several views, and propor- 
■ tioned to their several interests and situations. 

My Honourable Friend, the author of the measure, and a great 
landed proprietor, thinks that there would be signal advantage in 
a cliangc which would throw more weight into the scale of the 
landed interest. Another Honourable JPriend of mine, likewise 
a great landed proprietor, is of opinion, that those wlio can only 
purchase their scats, are intent upon nothing but getting back their 
money. To these are opposed many Gentlemen'of the moneved 



192 MR. CURWEN'S REFORM BILL. 

interest, who see no reason (nor do I, I confess, see any), why 
they who may have paid a sum for their seats once for all, should 
be more desirous of getting back their money, than he who has 
spent that sum, or three times as much, in a contested popular 
election. I am far, too, from being convinced, from any observa- 
tions that I have made of the conduct of men in parliament, that 
such, in point of fact, is the case. To my apprehension, many of 
those who may be suspected to have come into parliament through 
these condemned and reprobated ways, have been among the 
most upright, honourable, and independent members, that parlia- 
ment has had to boast, far exceeding others that could be named, 
who, from the money they have spent, and the interests they have 
staked, in elections pretending to be of higher account, have only 
brought themselves to be the mere slaves of popular opinion, that 
is to say, of their own future hopes in the places which they 
represent. Many of the former description, from the class to 
which, for the most part, they belong, will be of opinion, probably, 
that the best improvement would be that which conspires best 
with the general change in the circumstances of the country, and 
by taking something from the old and obsolete privileges of the 
landed aristocracy, the barbarous remains of feudal times, give 
a free scope to men who owe their wealth, not to dull hereditary 
descent, but to their own entei'prise and industry, and have grown 
rich by means that have, at the same time, enriched, or otherwise 
beneiited, the country. 

But there is a third and more numerous class (and by no means 
an inactive or inefficient one), who, looking with no very friendly 
eye to advantages w^hich they do not share, and knowing to a 
certainty that they have neither land nor money, yet fully per- 
suaded that they have talents, will be for levelling to the ground 
all those barriers, which have hitherto, as they are firmly con- 
vinced, been the sole obstacles to their advancement, and have 
alone hindered them from figuring in the first situations of the 
state. 

The general rule will, I believe, be, that each man's opinions 
will be found to lean to that state of things, which he conceives 
to be the most favourable to his own consequence. Political con- 
sequence is probably a far more powerful, as it is a far more ex- 
tensive motive, than prospects of private advantage. The num- 
bers may be few, who can hope to better themselves by any 
change in a pecuniary view: and these will of course be "found, 
for the most part, among persons of no great authority from their 
present wealth or station. But many will have in their minds 
(and the highest in rank and fortune not less than others), some 
scheme of things, in which they may hope to become more con- 
siderable in point of general consequence. And if such men 



MR. CURWEN'S REFORM BILL. 193 

should be, as they are the most hkely to be, men of ardent and 
daring minds, jealous of their importance, eager for distinction, 
impatient of control, less awed. by the fear of loss, than sanguine 
in their hopes of gain, materials will not be wanting for furnish- 
ing out a revolution even from among the higher orders; in oppo- 
sition to that childish notion, so false even in theory, and so 
contrary to all experience, that men will not engage in such 
enterprises who have much to lose ; or, as it is often expressed, 
have a great stake in the country. 

Heretofore, in fact, disturbances in the state were confined en- 
tirely to the class that had much to lose, namely, to persons in the 
highest rank of society ; and though, since the example of the 
French Revolution, this limitation is done away, and the lottery 
of revolution thrown o]X!n even to adventurers of the lowest de- 
nomination, yet the rich are not excluded, and we see every day 
that they are not at all disposed to exclude themselves. For 
though the French Revolution exhibits the most striking example 
of failure, that the lovers of right could ever have wished to the 
authors of wrong; yet this failure relates only to the professed 
objects, the peace and happiness and liberty of mankind. In other 
respects, and with relation to the views and interests of individual 
reformers, who, in truth and fact, trouble themselves but little 
with the peace and happiness and liberty of mankind, the example 
is most encouraging; and particularly with respect to those, who 
are not likely to be deterred by personal risk; for nothing can 
show so strikingly the facility with which the object can be accom- 
plished, and with which men from the lowest stations may be 
lifted suddenly to the highest. This is all that is wanted ; for give 
but the chance of success, even a very indifferent chance, and 
thousands will not be wanting, high and low, to engage in the 
undertaking, and to labour with all the restless activity and 
increasing industry with which we see the work carrying on at 
this instant. 

Still the means must be supplied. They cannot make bricks 
without straw. Even these reformers or revolutionists, numerous 
as they are, and strenuous as their exertions are, cannot make a 
revolution of themselves, nor by their utmost efforts throw the 
country off that happy basis, on which it has rested for so many 
centuries, an object of admiration and envy, and never more so 
than at the present moment. The great mass of the community 
is, no doubt, against them : but industry and perseverance may 
do much. Those who would never listen to such a proposal in 
its full extent, may yet be drawn in by degrees. 

Formerly, that is to say, some five-and-twenty years ago, the 
attempt was made through the medium of mere* abstract reason- . 
ing. Incredible as it may seem, the idea was entertained, as I 
17 Z 



194 MR. CURWEN'S REFORM BILL. 

should say, of overturning the government, but, as even the ' 
authors of the attempt must say, of totally changing the constitu- 
tion of parliament, not by pointing out any practical grievance 
under which men laboured, but by convincing them that the 
whole of the British constitution, such as it had existed for ages, 
was an infraction upon the rights of man. The notion was new 
of attempting to make a great change in the practical concerns 
of mankind by the mere force of metaphysical reasoning. But 
wild and extravagant as such an attempt may be, and little, hap- 
pily, as was its final success at the period alluded to, we must not 
speak too slightingly of it, when we recollect what share such 
notions had in bringing about the French Revolution, of which 
they ostensibly made the basis. At the end of twelve or fourteen 
centuries, the French monarchy, at the moment of its greatest 
mildness, and when all that was harsh and odious in it was daily 
wearing away, was overthrown, with all the circumstances which 
we have witnessed, ostensibly by the mere force of metaphysical 
reasoning ; and what is more humiliating, if not more surprising, 
by metaphysical reasoning of the most contemptible sort ! 

This mode, however, has now lost much of its etficacy, and 
has got to be rather out of fashion. In seeking to embody the 
natural and unavoidable discontents of mankind for the purpose 
of overturning governments, which is the general description of 
what I should understand by Jacobinism, it has become necessary 
to have recourse to something more solid and substantial than 
mere grievances of theory, and to take the discontents arising 
from real causes, whether the discontents themselves be reasona- 
ble or not, and then to connect these as effect and cause, with 
something wrong, or said to be wrong, either in the frame or 
practice of the government. The discontents you are sure of; 
they can never be wanting, as long as men are men, and that so- 
ciety is composed of various ranks and conditions, whereof some 
are higher and better than others. Since the days of qui ft 
Meccenas. down to the present moment, few have ever been found, 
who were so contented with their lot, whether chosen by them- 
selves, or cast upon them by Providence, ut ilia contenti vivant; 
and if they cannot be said, laudare diversa sequentes, they at 
least think that their own situation is not so good as it ought to 
be, or as a little change would make it. In a country like this, 
where a great portion of our immense riches is paid in contri- 
butions to the public service, no man will ever think himself as 
rich as he ought to be : for though the wealth of the country has 
increased in full proportion, I believe, to its burthens, that is to 
say, to its expenses ; and though there never was a time when 
that wealth was more evenly diffused through all ranks and 
classes of people, yet as luxury has increased at the same time. 



MR. CUR WEN'S REFORM BILL. 195 

not to say with equal rapidity, every man may, in some sense, 
describe himself as poor, inasmuch as the interval between his 
income and his expenditure will, as a proportionate part, be less 
than it was before. Let his wealth be what it will, if his expenses 
increase in such a way as to continue to press equally upon the 
bounds of his income, he will never be a bit richer, with respect 
to any disposable surplus, but will be equally under the necessity 
of parting with some article of pride or enjoyment which he 
wishes to keep, whenever he is called upon for any contribution 
to the service of the state. It is, therefore, the singular and me- 
lancholy characteristic of the state of poverty here described, 
that it is one which riches cannot cure. In common cases, if a 
man be poor, give him money enough, and he is poor no longer. 
But here we may almost say, that the richer the nation is, the 
poorer it is. It is in vain that wealth is pouring in upon us from 
every quarter, and through an endless variety of channels ; that 
it is not confined, as national wealth in truth never can be, to 
particular persons or classes, but is diffused throughout with won- 
derful exactness ; or rather in larger measure, in fact, to the 
lower and middling orders ; that foreigners, resorting hither, can- 
not behold without astonishment a display of wealth and enjoy- 
ment, unknown at any former time, or in any other country; 
that we are reproached every day from the continent with our 
opulence and prosperity as contrasted with the penury and misery 
of other countries; and are regarded with greedy eyes by the 
master of all the rest of Europe, as a mine of wealth, which he 
is longing only to get possession of; all this while, we, who know 
these things better, are full of complaints and lamentations, and 
representing ourselves as an oppressed, burthened, and, above all, 
impoverished nation. 

In the midst of this, tliere is nevertheless one remedy, which, 
if men could be persuaded to take it, would do away, as by a 
charm, all this dreadful state of poverty, and restore them in an 
instant to a condition of ease and affluence. — It seems like quack- 
ery to suppose the existence of such a nostrum, but it is explained 
in two words — Let every man resolve to live with no greater 
measure of enjoyments than his father did before him, than peo- 
ple of the same rank and class did forty years ago. I do not ask 
that they should lay out only the same money: the same money 
would not now procure the same enjoyments : but that they should 
only require the same enjoyments. Let those who formerly walk- 
ed on foot, be content to walk on foot now, and forego the use of 
a horse, when the price too of a horse and the expense of keep- 
ing one are so much greater. Let those whose means extended 
no further than to the keeping a horse, be willing to go back to 
that indulgence, and dispose of their gigs and whiskeys and tan- 



196 MR. CURWEN'S REFORM BILL. 

dems, now, too, that every article of that sort has risen to such 
an enormous amount. Let the former riders in gigs and whiskeys 
and one-horsed carriages, continue to ride in them, and not as- 
pire to be rolling about in post-chaises or barouches, or often both 
in the one and the other. By this simple expedient, pursued mu- 
tQtis, mutandis, through every class of the community, one may 
venture to say, (speaking always of persons whose misfortunes 
or imprudence have not reduced them already to actual indigence,) 
that nine-tenths of those who are filling the country with their 
clamours and waitings about the distresses of the times, all but 
the holders of fixed incomes of an early date, or persons in the 
lowest class of labourers, will find themselves instantly in a state 
of ease and comfort fully able to satisfy all the demands of the 
state, and to lay by something as a future provision for their 
families. 

But as the expedient, we are sure, whatever its merits may be, 
will never be adopted, there will forever remain, in the feeling 
excited by the payment of taxes, an inexhaustible fund of discon- 
tent, of force sufficient to produce any effect desired, provided 
means can be found to give it a proper direction. This is the 
great work on which the artificers of revolution are at present 
employed. They say to the people, you are all sensible of the 
burthens under which you labour: you all dislike the payment of 
taxes. Now what is it that carries the taxes to this immense 
amount? — A common man would say, the immense amount of 
the civil and military establishments of a great empire extending 
over half the -world ; the number of civil officers necessary to 
carry on its business in time of peace, and the armies and navies^ 
with all their attendant train of expenses, to provide for its secu- 
rity in case of war. But, no, say the band of patriots here allu- 
ded to, the objects here stated are, to be sure, such as cannot be 
provided for but at a considerable expense. Wars cannot be 
carried on, armies and navies cannot be maintained, without mo- 
ney. But these expenses alone might be well borne : what sinks 
the country is the wasteful expenditure of the public money in 
jobs and corruption, in sinecure places and pensions. It is the 
abuses that undo us ; the abuses that we must correct : and as it 
is parliament that sanctions, if it is not itself the great seat of, the 
abuses, it is parliament that we must correct and reform. 

The argument is perfectly regular, and the conclusion inevita- 
ble, if you admit the several antecedent positions on which it is 
made to rest. The statement contains in it too all that is neces- 
sary to give it effect. A willing audience will never be wanting 
to statements which hold out a hope of exempting men from the 
necessity of paying. Once persuade them that all their payments 
and burdens are the consequence of abuse or mismanagement in 



MR. CURWEN'S REFORM BILL. 197 

some part of the government, and you produce a state of feeling 
adequate to almost any purpose for which it can be wanted. Tax- 
es and abuses, joined, generate a kind of expansive force, that 
will burst asunder even the best compacted governments. The 
abuses, too, serve to give a direction to the discontent and angry 
feeling, produced in the first instance by the taxes. They stand 
in the place of the abstract rights of a few years ago, and are the 
last improvement made in the machine for overturning states, 
from which it is conceived to derive a much greater heft and pur- 
chase, than in its old form of ' taxes and the rights of man.' 

A number of persons are accordingly in a constant state of 
active search, prying among the establishments, and winding 
about like a wood-pecker round a tree, in the hopes of finding 
some unsound part into which they may strike their beaks and 
begin to work : but not like the honest wood-pecker, who is only 
in search of the grubs and worms on which he may make a meal, 
and is at least indifferent as to the fate of the tree. They on the 
contrary only take the grubs and worms for their pretext, and 
have for their ultimate object, to open a hole, into wdiich the wet 
and the rot may enter, and by wdiich the tree, the British oak, (a 
beautiful shaft of I know not how many load, and the growth of 
ages,) may decay and perish. Did their labour really terminate 
in their professed purpose, did they really mean only to pick off 
the vermin that prey upon the state, they might be as useful as 
rooks and jackdaws to a flock of sheep; or might share the high- 
er honours, which are paid, in countries infested by locusts, to 
the bird that rids them of that destructive insect. But to merit 
these honours, their endeavours must be directed to far different 
objects, be carried on in a difierent manner, and be dictated by 
very different motives. 

Let us consider what it is that is comprehended under this gen- 
eral head of abuses, which forms the gi-eat instrument whereby 
the discontents of a country are made subservient to the destruc- 
tion of its government ; which collects and compounds the sepa- 
rate elements of dissatisfaction, to be found floating in society, so 
as to prepare them for those grand explosions by which states are 
overthrown. 

By abuses is meant, I suppose, either the abuse of patronage ; 
the granting to favour or interest, what ought to be granted only 
to merits and services; or, secondly, the purloining, embezzling, 
or corruptly applying the public money. Let us' endeavour to 
ascertain how much of either of these species of abuse exists: 
how much of them is to be charged to government : and how 
much, in any event, is likely to be corrected by what is called a 
Reform of Parliament. 

As to the last of these heads of abuse, the purloining or em- 
17* 



198 MR. CURWEN'S REFORM BILL. 

bezzling of the public money ; by which must be understood the 
transferring, by false accounts or otherwise, into the pocket of 
the individual, what was intended for the public service ; I suppose 
it is hardly necessary to say, that the idea of such an offence as 
existing among those who constitute what can, with any propriety, 
be called the Government, could be generated only in the gross 
imaginations of persons totally ignorant of the principles and mo- 
tives by which men in such situations must of necessity be 
actuated. It is not a question of their virtue or probity ; but of 
their feelings, habits, manners, and prudence. They may be, as 
they often are, mercenary, selfish, rapacious, unprincipled. But 
it is not in acts like those alluded to, that these dispositions will 
show themselves, even in the persons who feel them most. It 
might as well be supposed, that they could seek to enrich them- 
selves by conveying aw^ay a diamond snuff-box, or pilfering 
guineas out of a drawer. Nothing can prove more clearly the 
degree to which this is true, than the commotion excited, and 
the effects produced by any appearance of irregularity, even of 
a minor sort, among persons in higher stations, in transactions 
connected with the administration of money. 

With respect to the abuse of patronage, one of those by which 
the interests of countries will, in reality, most suffer, I perfectly 
agree, that it is likewise one, of which the Government, properly 
so called, that is to say, persons in the highest offices, are as likely 
to be guilty, and, from their opportunities, more likely to be 
guilty, than any others. Nothing can exceed the greediness, the 
selfishness, the insatiable voracity, the profligate disregard of all 
claims from merit or services, that we often see in persons in high 
official stations, when providing for themselves, their relations or 
dependants. I am as little disposed as any one, to defend them 
in this conduct. Let it be reprobated in terms as harsh as any 
one pleases, and much more so than it commonly is. But the 
evil from persons of this description is necessarily limited, not 
possibly by their own moderation, but by the extent to which 
their desii'es are capable of being carried. They can eat no more 
than their stomachs can contain. The list is small of those im- 
mediately connected with them, nor is the number unlimited of 
those whom they may wish to serve from motives of vanity or 
interest. When the leech is full, it will drop off of itself. 

But what shall set bounds to those streams of abuse that take 
their rise among the people themselves? Let us trace the genealogy, 
the birth, parentage, and education, of nine-tenths of the jobs that 
are done in the army and navy, or in the other departments of the 
state, and see from what they originate, and in what manner they 
are brought forward. A gentleman, at the eve of a general 
election, or on some vacancy in a borough or county, is addressed 



MR. CURWEN'S REFORM BILL. 199 

by some one who is, or, who, he hopes, will be his constituent, 
some full-grown manufacturer, or opulent brewer, or eminent at- 
torney, who says, " You know my son Tom, who is in the navy. 
He has been for some time a lieutenant : I should be very glad if 
you would get him made master and commander." The candi- 
date or member bows assent, (Mr. Such-a-One is not a man to 
be disobliged,) he speaks to his friend the minister ; the minis- 
ter speaks to the First Lord of the Admiralty, and, without further 
inquiry, the thing is done ; nobody being able to divine, of those 
who are not in the secret, and only know our son Tom profession- 
ally, for which of his good qualities or meritorious actions he has 
been made, so much out of his turn, and over the heads of so 
many old and deserving officers, a master and connnander. Here 
then is a complete job, passing through several successive stages, 
and disgraceful enough in its progress to all the parties concerned 
in it, including the member, the minister, and the First Lord of 
the Admiralty, but certainly not excluding the constituent, the 
corrupt constituent, who is no member of the Government, high 
or low, but one of the people, and the prime author and mover 
of the whole. When this constituent shall hereafter reproach his 
member, as one of a body that is all corrupt, composed of per- 
sons who think of nothing but their own interests, without any 
regard to the interest of the country, the member may possibly 
be able to reply, " The most corrupt act I ever was guilty of, 
was that scandalous job by which I bought your vote and interest, 
when, contrary to all right and justice, I procured your son to be 
made a master and commander." 

We have here the history of a job, which, though springing from 
a root that lies wholly among the people, is supposed not to con- 
fine itself to the place of its original growth, but to extend its 
shoots into the parliament, and into the executive government. 
With a view, however, of showing the temper of some of these 
declaimers against abuses, let us take another case, (not more 
difficult, I hope, to be met with,) where, after inquiry made, either 
the member, or the minister, or the First Lord of the Admiralty, 
has virtue enough to say, that the pretensions and merits of the 
person in question are so small, and the injustice of promoting 
him would be so great, that in spite of all the wish that one of 
them necessarily has to promote his own success, and the others 
may have to promote the success of an important parliamentary 
friend and adherent, and much as it may even be their duty to 
promote by all honest means the success of one, whose conduct 
in parliament is likely to be what they think right, they feel it im- 
possible to comply with the application that has been made. Is it 
quite certain, is it quite a matter of course, that the author of the 
application, this inveigher against the corruptions of the times, is 



200 MR. CURWEN'S REFORM BILL. 

satisfied with this answer, however fully explained to him ; that 
he does not turn away with a sulky look from his late friend, and 
without disputing at all the truth of the reasons on which the re- 
fusal is founded, of which he, perhaps, is better aware than any 
other person, or which he does not consider as being any thing 
to the purpose, that he does not signify in plain terms, that his 
rule is to " serve those who serve him ;" and from that moment 
does not transfer himself and all those whose votes he commands, 
to the other side, taking what is called the independent hne, and 
exhibiting himself among the first bawlers against the corruptions 
of the great, "who think of nothing but their own interest?" 

Here at least is an instance of abuse, (supposed indeed, but not 
on that account to be considered as a mere creature of the imagi- 
nation,) which, while it begins with one of the people, ends there 
likewise, and does not touch the Government or the parliament at 
all. And such, we may venture to affirm, is the case of nine- 
tenths, or rather ninety-nine hundredths of the abuses complained 
of. The whole country, it is said, is full of abuses from top to 
bottom. I am very much of that opinion ; with this correction, 
that the description would be more just if we were to say from 
bottom to top ; it being here, with this floating mass of abuses, as 
with other media, the parts of which are left to move freely, that 
the strata are denser, and grosser, the lower you descend, and 
that the highest region is the purest. 

We have already seen to what source may be traced the great- 
er part of the abuse of patronage, an abuse which with the others 
is to be cured, I suppose, by the favourite remedy, an extension 
of the representation, that is to say, by multiplying a hundredfold 
the chief causes to which the abuse is to be at present ascribed. 
But if of this the far greater part is found to lie in the people 
themselves, who cannot otherwise be brought to support the very 
government which they thus reproach for yielding to their venal- 
ity, what shall we say of those abuses, more properly so called, 
and upon which the people are much more intent, though they are 
really perhaps less important, viz. the various instances of fraud, 
embezzlement, peculation, and imposition, by which the expendi- 
ture of the country is swelled far beyond its natural size, and a 
million or two possibly taken from the pockets of the people, over 
and above what the real exigencies of the country require ? This 
is the part that we chiefly hear of; and very proper it is that we 
should hear of it; but let us take care that we impute the blame 
to the right quarter, that we put the saddle upon the right horse. 

With what approach to truth or propriety do we speak of these 
abuses, as abuses in the Government ? Who are the persons whom 
we mean to designate under the name of Government ? What are 
the abuses complained of? and by what description of persons 



MR. CURWEN'S REFORM BILL. 201 

are they committed ? Is it an abuse in the government, that is, in 
the members of the cabinet, and the persons holding high offices, 
including if you please the parliament, that a store-keeper, or 
commissary, in the West Indies, or in Ceylon, embezzles the pub- 
lic stores, or sends in false accounts, by which the public is de- 
frauded 1 Is it corruption in the Chancellor of the Exchequer, or 
in the ministry or parliament collectively, that gross frauds are 
daily and hourly practised on the revenue; that the taxes are elu- 
ded ; that false returns are made ; that excise and custom-house 
officers are perpetually bribed to betray their trust; that the tribes 
of officers, high and low, at home and abroad, of more denomi- 
nations than can be enumerated, which an empire like this is 
obliged to employ in its service, are often more intent upon ad- 
vancing their own fortunes, than upon discharging their duty 
or guarding the interests of the public ; and that all those, not 
being persons in office, with whom the Government must occa- 
sionally have dealings, have no consideration, but how to make 
the most they can, and to cheat the public by every means in 
their power 1 I should be glad to know, how many of these ar- 
raigners of the profusion of the Government, if they had a piece 
of land to sell in the neighbourhood of a barrack or military 
hospital, would limit the price they asked by any other considera- 
tion, than what they thought the necessity of the case would com- 
pel Government to give, or would scruple, if they saw any pros- 
pect of success, to bribe the barrack-master, or other officer, to 
betray his trust, and contribute to give effect to their exactions. 
It is, in the first place, perfect folly to talk as if the parliament 
and the Government, (the parliament being a body that neither in 
fact nor theory can know any thing of the matter, and the Gov- 
ernment consisting of some ten or twenty persons, the members 
of the cabinet, and a few of the heads of great departments,) can 
be responsible for the individual conduct of the thousands and 
thousands of subordinate officers and agents, who must be em- 
ployed in the public service, and who are distributed, far and near, 
through all parts of a widely extended empire : to say nothing of 
the fact, that the greater part of these are obtruded or palmed 
upon the government, by persons not being themselves in any 
office, but in the strictest sense a part of the people, and who are 
thinking of nothing, but to serve, by whatever means, their own 
friends and relations. In the next place, these frauds, committed 
by persons within the pale of the Government, are for the most 
part of a sort, that imply a confederate w ithout. Like other acts 
which in the system of animal life cannot well be dispensed with, 
they require of necessity two parties. If the exciseman connives 
at the frauds of the brewer or the distiller, it is the distiller and 
brewer by whom he is bribed to do so. If the custom-house offi- 
2A 



202 MR. CURWEN'S REFORM BILL. 

cer permits false entries, and allows goods to be imported or ex- 
ported without the proper duties, and thereby affords an example 
of an abuse committed (if any one choose so to describe it,) by 
one of the Government, meaning a custom-house olRcer, what 
are we to say of the merchant or trader, by whose bribe he has 
been induced to do this? who, it cannot be disputed, is one of the 
people, and one of the people merely ; and very possibly, with the 
distiller, brewer, or other trader, one of those who think that the 
country can never thrive, till a radical reform shall have put an 
end to abuses. The fact is, that when the matter comes to be 
searched to the bottom, it is the people throughout, who are 
cheating the people ; the people individually cheating the people 
collectively, and then finding in their own frauds and knaveries a 
reason for tearing to pieces the Government. How is Government 
a party to these frauds ? Even in respect to patronage ; the part 
in which the government, properly so called, will be found most 
to offend: it is not ascribing much to persons, at the head of de- 
partments, to suppose, that when their owm immediate connections 
and dependants are satisfied, they would be willing to promote 
good men rather than bad, if they were not controlled by the 
insatiable demands of those, whom they cannot disoblige without 
renouncing the means of carrying on the pubUc service, and who 
never think for a moment of merit or demerit, or of any thing 
else, but of providing for those, whom, for some reason or other, 
they wish to serve. So, in respect to pecuniary abuse or waste, 
it is no great compliment to a Chancellor of the Exchequer to 
suppose that he is desirous of making the taxes as productive as 
possible. We need not look to his virtue or sense of duty as a 
security for this endeavour. His own interest will be a sufficient 
pledge, and particularly that interest which it is most the fashion 
to throw^ in the teeth of public men, namely, the desire of keeping 
his place. The crime of Government, therefore, in almost all 
these instances, is that of not being able, with all its efforts, ani- 
mated even with the strongest sense of self-interest, to prevent the 
crimes of others. The people in all quarters and by all opportu- 
nities are preying upon the public, and then make it the reproach 
of the Government that it has not the power to prevent them. 
Such a reproach might, it is confessed, be well founded, if a fail- 
ure in the performance of this task on the part of Govei-nment, 
proceeded from neglect, remissness, or want of proper zeal. But 
besides that interest, as was before observed, concurs here with 
duty, let us see how the matter stands, on a consideration of what 
would be in the power of government, supposing exertion to be 
pushed to the utmost. 

What is the sense of supposing that Government must be able 
to do with respect to the public, what no man is able to do in his 



MR. CURWEN'S REFORM BILL. 203 

own affairs and family 1 Who is there that can boast to have 
established a system of superintendence so complete, or to be 
blessed with a set of servants of such rare honesty and so 
attached to his interest, as not to leave him a prey to innumerable 
abuses, greater or less, in his stables, his still-room, his kitchen, 
his butler's pantry, in every department, in short, of his house- 
hold? If this is the case of men acting in the management of 
their own private affairs, and quickened by every motive of self- 
interestj as may be predicated with truth probably of every 
domestic establishment in the kingdom, down even to the most 
limited, what shall we say of the reasonableness of the expecta- 
tion, that any zeal or strictness in thirty or forty persons, (or in 
ten times that number,) who can be described with any pro- 
priety as forming the executive Government, shall be able to 
exclude abuses from the innumerable subordinate departments, 
over which they are to preside, and which extend over half the 
globe? The amount of abuse, be it observed, incident to estab- 
lishments, does not increase merely with the size of the establish- 
ment, so as for the abuse in larger establishments to bear the 
same proportion only to the establishment itself, as it does in 
smaller ones ; it rises at a much greater rate: first, because the 
superintending power, the number of persons having a direct inte- 
rest in the well-being of the whole, cannot be multiplied in the 
proportion of the establishment : secondly, because the parts are 
further removed from observation: thirdly, on account of the 
complication and mixture of interests, which increase the com- 
binations far beyond the increase of the number of objects ; and, 
lastly, from the greater laxity apt to prevail in respect to frauds 
upon large funds, compared with something of stricter feeling 
which may be hoped for towards funds more limited. We see 
every day what a total carelessness there is in the expenditure of 
money, which, being money of the public, seems to belong to no- 
body. This indifference about expending, will be attended with 
a correspondent want of scruple in appropriating. As the scale 
of expenditure becomes larger, the injury sustained by the state 
from the loss or m.isapplication of any particular sum becomes 
less perceptible ; and men yield with more facility to the argu- 
ment, that what is great to them is little to the country, and will 
never be missed. This is the morality, I fear, of a large portion 
of the nation, and I am sure, is not least found, as far as any ob- 
servation of mine ever went, in those who would pass themselves 
off as the only persons, zoalous for the rights, or authorized to 
speak the sentiments, of the people. Yet with a system of public 
probity thus relaxed, in the midst of a nation thus disposed to 
prey upon itself, and upon a scale of expenditure like that which 
niust of necessity prevail in an empire extended as ours now is, 



204 MR. CURWEN'S REFORM BILL, 

it is thought a reason for breaking up the Government, that it 
cannot exclude abuses from our establishments, to a degree which 
few persons find attainable, in the management even of their own 
domestic concerns. It is our business, no doubt, to keep those 
abuses as low as possible; and the more corrupt the public is, 
the more are such exertions necessary : but let us not complain 
that we do not attain what is not attainable, and, above all, let us 
understand the fact truly, that the corruptions charged are, ex- 
cept in a few inconsiderable instances, not the corruptions of the 
Government, but the corruptions of the people which the Govern- 
ment is unable to prevent. 

Having thus far examined the nature of the charges, let us 
inquire a little whether there is any thing which we are bound to 
yield to the authority of those, by whom they are brought for- 
ward. I do not know why the members of this house, or of any 
other body, are to stand quietly by, and hear themselves stigma- 
tized collectively with all sorts of opprobrious epithets, which they 
do not feel individually to deserve, without so far retaliating upon 
their revilers, as to ask with submission, who thoy are, who, by 
thus dealing out their invectives to the right and left, seem to 
arrogate to themselves the character of being the only honest 
men in the kingdom. We want to know a little upon what they 
found their pretensions. After defending ourselves as well as we 
can, we may be allowed to exert a portion of the freedom which 
they so largely take with us, and request to be inibrmed, what 
are the pledges which they have given, what the sacrifices which 
they have made, as vouchers for this integrity and public spirit, 
which they seem to consider as to be found nowhere but with 
themselves? A reputation for patriotism seems to require for the 
attainment of it less than is necessary for the acquisition of any 
other object, however trivial. Nothing seems to be requisite, but 
the assurance which gets up and says, I am the only honest man, 
all others are rogues. Indeed, the former part of the declaration, 
the testimonial given by the party to his own integrity, seems 
hardly to be called for: if the abuse of others be sufficiently loud 
and general, the honesty of the person himself is assumed as mat- 
ter of course. No trial or examination is necessary, no previous 
stock of reputation, no evidence from former conduct ; the trade 
of a patriot, like that of an attorney or apothecary, is of tlie 
class of those who may be set up without capital. I should be 
glad to know, for instance, what are the sacrifices which have 
ever been made by the Honourable Baronet (Sir Francis Burdett) 
as the foundation of that high tone which he assumes with respect 
to all unfortunate public men who have ever been in office. I 
am far from meaning to insinuate (I have no fact to warrant the 
insinuation), that the Honourable Baronet would not be ready, at 



MR. CtrRWEN'S REFORM BILL. 205 

any time, to make all the sacrifices to his principles that could be 
called for : he might or he might not : but I mean to say, that 
none such having been called for, none have in point of fact been 
made. On the contrary, it has so happened that the Honourable 
Baronet has got by his patriotism, by the natural spontaneous, 
(unlocked for, if you please,) efiects of his patriotism, all that 
many men have been willing to obtain, or have pursued without 
obtaining, at the expense of half their fortunes. By this no credit 
may have been lost to the Honourable Baronet, but none can be 
gained. Virtue can only be proved by trials and sacrifices. A 
man cannot show his disinterestedness by what he gets, however 
honestly he may come by it. No one, surely, will pay so ill a 
compliment to the Honourable Baronet, or to the country, as to 
give for a proof of rare and distinguished virtue, that he has 
never asked a favour of any minister either for himself or for a 
friend. How many might make the same boast, who yet never 
thought of inveighing against all the rest of the world as corrupt 
and dishonest! And after all, what does the boast amount to? 
With respect to friends, the praise is rather equivocal. A man 
may happen to have no one, who is at once capable of being 
served by place or appointment, and for whom he is particularly 
anxious. And as to oiTice for himself, is it known that the offer 
was ever made to the Honourable Baronet ? or that he himself 
ever wished it ? With a large fortune, and all the comforts and 
pleasures of life before him, he may never have thought the pride 
or power of office a compensation for its cares and constraints, 
or even for the privilege which he now enjoys (and is not sparing 
in the use of) of railing at those whose opinions and feelings upon 
that point have been different from his own. The merit of sacri- 
ficing otTice can alone be found among those, for whom office 
has charms; and upon that principle the Honourable Baronet 
must not be surprised, though in other respects he will, no doubt, 
if I look for proofs of political virtue, to be contrasted to any on 
his part, in quarters from which he would turn with scorn, as 
from the very hot-beds of all corruption. 

What will the friends of the Honourable Baronet say, when 
they hear me quote for my instance, the conduct of Mr. Pitt ? 
The general career of Mr. Pitt's political life, and his adminis- 
tration of the affairs of this country, during the great crisis in 
which he latterly acted, I perhaps as little approv^e as the Hon- 
ourable Baronet can do ; though for reasons altogether different : 
but one of the very charges which many might bring against Mr. 
Pitt, (I mean his love of power,) is the pledge of liis merit in the 
instance to which I am alluding, I mean his resignation of power 
in the year 1801. It is no reproach to Mr. Pitt to say that he 
was an ambitious man. It may be something of a reproach, though 
18 



206 MR. CURWEN'S REFORM BILL. 

I am afraid the fact is true, that his ambition showed itself too 
much in love of power and office. The habits, in fact, of official 
life had begun so early with him and continued so long, that they 
must have become a sort of second nature ; place and power 
were almost among the necessaries of life to him ; yet, with all 
those feelings upon him, original and acquired ; with a possession of 
power, longer enjoyed and more firmly established than can be 
found possibly in any other instance, not excepting that of Sir 
Robert Walpole ; with a perception, as quick as man ever had, 
of what was likely to be useful or prejudicial to him in any po- 
litical step ; Mr. Pitt did not hesitate in withdrawing from office, 
at the period alluded to, the moment he found it could be no longer 
held, but upon terms inconsistent, as he thought, with his duty, and 
derogatory from his character. It is in vain to say, that this 
might not be an act of pure virtue, but be mixed up with feelings 
of shame, or pride, or policy, or others of that sort. There is no 
end of such objections ; which, after all, can make no difference 
here, where we are upon a question of comparison ; since, if ad- 
mitted at all, they must appear equally on both sides of the 
account. It is just as easy to say, that the Honourable Baronet, 
in the course w^hich he has pursued, has acted with a view to 
what he has got, as that Mr. Pitt, on the occasion alluded to, 
acted with a view to what he did not get. The exact measure 
of virtue that enters into any act, can be known only to the 
Searcher of all hearts: we must be content to take for virtue 
what contains all the usual indications of it, and produces all the 
effects. There is no reason to suspect the sacrifice thus made by 
Mr. Pitt, to be less genuine than it purports ta be. He did not 
sacrifice what he did not highly value : and no man was more 
likely to foresee (what the event proved,) that ministerial power, 
which owes so much to the length of its continuance, could hardly, 
after an interruption, be ever completely restored to what it was 
before. The Honourable Baronet, I have no doubt, had the occa- 
sion been offered, would equally have shown that personal consi- 
derations had no weight with him when placed in competition with 
the calls of duty, or even w^ith those of honest fame. But the 
opportunity, as far as I am aware, has never been afforded him ; 
and no one can be allowed to claim the same credit for what he 
has only intended and believed himself capable of doing, as others 
for what they have actually done. 

Upon the whole of this subject of the corruptions of the great, 
we may venture to say, that be their virtue what it may, it is at 
least at par with that of the persons by whom it is arraigned. 
There are very few men in public life, who could not, if they 
thought it worth while, if they could bring themselves to be proud 
of merit so little rare, quote instances of sacrifices which they 



MR. CURWEN'S REFORM BILL. 207 

had made — to duty, to point of honour, to estimation of friends, 
to party si)irit, if you please, but to something far superior to the 
mere sordid desire of profit or emolument, — to which the greater 
part of these patriotic declaimers could not only show nothing 
parallel in their own conduct, but which they would not, as far 
as related to themselves, dream even to be possible. 

So much for this great topic of abuses, which is now made the 
foundation-stone of the system, and gives to the authors of the 
system all that was wished by the philosopher of old, when, in 
order to move the world from its basis, he asked for notliing but 
a place whereon to fix his machine. But fur the greater portion 
of abuses, even of those which do finally reach the Government, 
proceed from the people themselves. They are tlie bribes which 
Government pays to the people, directly or indirectly, to prevent 
them from pulling the Government to pieces. This is more espe- 
cially exemplified in that worst and most pernicious species of 
abuses, though by far the least complained of, the abuse of patron- 
age. But the great mass of abuse, that which forms nine-tenths, 
at least, or, more probably, ninety-nine hundredths of the whole, 
and which alone directly aflects the pockets of the people, both 
begins and ends with the people, and consists of the frauds, impo- 
sitions, embezzlements, and peculations, committed by the tribes 
of officers, high and low ; (with the exception only of the high- 
est ;) who, though employed under the Government, can still, in no 
rational view, be considered otherwise than as part of the people ; 
as well as by all those, who, not being in any, even the most sub- 
ordinate office, have still occasional dealings with the public, or 
opportunities in some way or other of turning its interests to their 
account. 

The mode proposed for putting a stop to these abuses, is to re- 
form the parliament : that is to say, to have a scheme of repre- 
sentation, in which, the elections being more popular, the parHa- 
ment should issue more directly from the general mass of the 
people, and a larger portion of it in consequence be hkely to con- 
sist of persons taken from the lower orders, the country in the 
meanwhile, by the increased number of competitors, and by the 
means through which they must hope to succeed, being thrown 
into an additional ferment. The plan, with a view to its professed 
object, cannot be said either to promise much or to be chosen 
with very peculiar felicity. It is not an obvious way, for making 
the hquor run clear, to give a shake to the cask and to bring up 
as much as possible from the parts nearest the bottom. Could it 
be believed, without proof from the fact, that men could be found 
seriously to indulge speculations so destitute of every foundation 
in reason or common sense? The reform wanted, for the pur- 
poses said to be intended, is either a reform of the whole people, 



208 MR. CURWEN'S REFORM BILL. 

which it is childish to hope, or a reform^ in the government, by- 
arming it with such new powers, as might indeed answer the end 
proposed, but would in the mean time be wholly incompatible 
with the nature of our free constitution. 

There are but three ways in which mankind can be governed ; 
by their virtues, their interests, or their fears. To be able to gov- 
ern men by their sense and their virtues is unquestionably the 
best of all. If men will be ready always to support gratuitously 
what they think right, and oppose nothing but what they con- 
scientiously believe to be wrong, the task of government would 
comparatively be easy, and corruption without excuse. The 
minister would have nothing to do but to choose right measures; 
and the merit of the measure might be expected to carry it 
through. But if the fact should be, that there are numbers who 
cannot be brought to support even what they themselves approve, 
without being paid for it, and who if they have not been so paid, 
or think they can get better payment elsewhere (whether that 
payment consist in place, or money, or popular applause, or the 
gratification of some malignant or selfish passion,) will combine 
and cabal, and create every sort of obstruction and impediment, 
there is then no other way, in a free government, for the purpose 
of carrying on the public service, but to gain over such persons 
by their interests, which, in the language of the time, is to be 
guilty of corruption ; but a corruption surely of which the guilt 
cannot fairly be charged on the government. 

In governments indeed of another sort, such as that which 
makes so conspicuous a figure in the present times, I mean the 
government of Buonaparte, the case is altogether different ; and 
no more necessity exists for corruption under such a rule than in 
a nation of men perfectly wise and virtuous. He (Buonaparte) 
is under no necessity to bribe men's concurrence to measures that 
are for the interest of the country, and has, moreover, methods 
far more eflfectual than any which free countries possess, to pre- 
vent the abuses arising from fraud, or peculations. A man who 
could hang without ceremony a custom-house officer who should 
be found conniving at any fraud on the revenue, and hang or send 
to the galleys the merchant who should bribe him to such conni- 
vance, may be pretty sure of confining within reasonable bounds 
all abuses of that description. The same will be the case with 
any other species of abuse. But how, in countries where conduct 
is free, men can be prevented from selling that, which they will 
not consent to give, and how, where law is formal and scrupulous, 
and beset on all sides with guards and defences for the protection 
of innocence, it can be made to retain, in all cases, sufficient ce- 
lerity for the overtaking of guilt, are problems, with which the 
authors of these complaints never seem to trouble themselves. 



MR. CURWEN'S REFORM BILL. 209 

They call boldly and loudly for the suppression of abuses ; and 
if the suppressing abuses was the only object to be attended to, 
the task would be easy. There is a government in the neighbour- 
hood, the same to which I have just alluded, that tells us how that 
work is to be done. I will pay so much homage to Buonaparte's 
government as to say, that it either is, or may be, one of the most 
free from abuses of any that ever existed. But will the clamour- 
ers for this salutary reformation be content to have it upon the 
same terms? We have seen already, what the nature of the great- 
er part of these abuses is, and from what source they spring. 
And do not let us take this upon trust. Let those who doubt, go 
into the inquiry, and examine, one by one, the instances in which 
they complain that the public money has been transferred wrong- 
fully into the pockets of individuals, or the public patronage per- 
verted, and see what the utmost extent is of that portion, which 
has been appropriated to the interests of ministers, or of those for 
whom they were personally anxious. 

Upon this issue we may suffer the question to rest, considered 
as part of a general system, which aims at a great change in the 
constitution (a subversion of it as I should say) under the name 
of Reform, and grounds the necessity of such reform upon the 
extent and number of the subsisting abuses. It remains only that 
we say a few words upon the more narrow view of the subject, 
as introduced by the Honourable Mover. 

The direct end and object of the motion, as we collect from 
some passages in his speech, the specific effect which he means 
to produce, is that of erecting a barrier to the too great influx 
into this house of the moneyed interest. The means proposed are 
such as cannot but be approved, if the description of them be true, 
viz. that they consist entirely in the correction of a practice which 
is in the highest degree corrupt. The consequences, as usual in 
all cases where new remedies are advertised, are to extend far 
beyond the removal of the immediate complaint, and to benefit 
the constitution in a thousand different ways. It happens whimsi 
cally that the primary object of the mover, (a pretty important 
one, and requiring, one should think, a good deal of nice conside- 
ration), namely the altering the balance between the landed and 
the moneyed interest, seems to be no object at all with those to 
whom the motion is principally addressed, and not much indeed 
to the Honourable Mover, if we may judge by the small portion 
which it has occupied of his speech. It slips in almost by paren- 
thesis. It is lost and hid, in the splendour of the incidental advan- 
tages which the motion is to bring with it, in the confidence it is 
to restore, the unanimity it is to "inspire, the heats it is to allay, 
the effect it is to have in silencing gainsayers, the foundation it is 
to lay of a new and glorious era, from the commencement of 
18* 2 B 



210 MR. CURWEN'S REFORM BILL. 

which nothing will be known throughout the country but one spir- 
it of loyalty and patriotism, and a determination to live and die 
by the constitution. What a pity that prospects so bright, and 
which my Honourable Friend contemplates with such unspeaka- 
ble satisfaction, should be so soon obscured ! Never was hope so 
sanguine, so suddenly blasted ! It is nipped in its first bud. It does 
not five to the second reading. It is consigned to the tomb almost 
at the moment of its birth. 

" Oh just beloved and lost, admired and mourned !" 

This medicine, which was to produce such wonderful effects, 
which was to operate like a charm, so comfortable in the stomach, 
so exhilarating to the spirits, so restorative of all the vital functions, 
has totally falsified the first assurance respecting it, namely, that 
it would be very pleasant to the taste. What it may be in the 
stomach, or afterwards, we cannot well say ; for those for whose 
special use it was intended, who were to seize it so greedily, find 
it so little pleasant that they will not sufler it to remain within 
their lips ; but spit it out upon the hands of my Honourable Friend, 
at the very moment when he is in the act of administering it. 

Much useful instruction and information may be derived from 
this fact, as well to my Honourable Friend as to ourselves. My 
Honourable Friend, I hope, will learn a lesson, of great utility to 
all reformers, to distrust a little the more remote consequences of 
their measures, when they see how liable they are to error, even 
in those which they expect to take place immediately. The house, 
it is hoped, will learn this distrust with respect to the measure 
now proposed. It is no great recommendation of any medicine 
that its effects are totally mistaken by the person who advises it. 
All our confidence in the physician is already lost. The only 
certain knowledge which w^e have, as yet, of the measure, is, that 
it will not do what the Honourable Mover predicted of it. It will 
not satisfy those, who at present inveigh against the abuses of the 
system, and contend that it ought to be reformed. On the con- 
trary, they say that this measure, unless accompanied with others 
far more extensive, will only make things worse. 

I have already endeavoured to show that the practice meant 
to be corrected, has no crime in it abstractly considered; that it 
is not a malum in se. It is culpable only as it may be made so 
by law, or as it may practically be found to produce effects inju- 
rious to the public interest. When opinion out of doors is urged 
as a reason for adopting it, the answer is, that opinion out of 
doors, such as is here in question, is a very bad reason for adopt- 
ing any measure, inasmuch as there can hardly be a worse crite- 
rion of what is really for the public benefit; and that, after all, 
the public opinion does not call for this measure separately and 



MR. CURWEN'S REFORM BILL. 211 

unaccompanied with certain others, which the Honourable Mover 
himself would declare that he does not wish to see take place. 
The inducements, therefore, to a compliance with the present 
motion lie in a very small compass indeed. They are simply its 
own merits; for, as to the splendid incidental consequences dwelt 
upon with such rapture by the Honourable Mover, they are all at 
an end already. There will be no satisfaction produced. What 
is called the public w^ill not thank you for the measure, otherwise 
than as it may be made a subject of triumph and a stepping-stone 
to other objects. The objections to it on the other hand, are the 
dangers of this triumph, and of those other objects to which it is 
meant to lead. 

Upon the result of these opposite considerations, first examined 
separately, and then compared together, I have no hesitation in 
earnestly conjuring the house not to adopt the motion. The prac- 
tice complained of has subsisted at all times, without any ground 
to suspect, or any suspicion being in fact entertained, that, accord- 
ing to the discovery now made, it has been sapping and under- 
mining the constitution. The reasons in support of the measure 
now proposed for the aboHtion of the practice are perfectly un- 
satisfactory and inconclusive. We know the mischievous use 
intended to be made of it ; and there can hardly indeed be any 
thing more mischievous in the first instance, than the yielding to 
public clamour, what we do not feel that we are yielding to truth 
and reason. 

After a debate of some length, the motion was agreed to without a division. 



( 212 ) 
MR. CURWEN'S BILL. 

THIRD REz\DING. 

JUNE 12th, 1809. 

The Bill, which occasioned the preceding speech, received in the Commit- 
tee, on the 8th of June, some material alterations, particularly a clause pro- 
posed by the Chancellor of the Exchequer, for levying certain penalties on 
any person procuring his return by any express covenant to give any offices 
by way of consideration for it. Lord Henry Petty moved that the word 
"express" should be omitted, as otherwise, he contended, a power of pro- 
curing seats by means of patronage would be left to the Treasury. On a 
division, the numbers were. 

For tlie Amendment 43 

Against it 78 

Majority 35 

On the 9th, another division took place on an Amendment to the same 
eifect, which was moved by Lord Milton, when the numbers were, 

For omitting the word " express" 74 

For inserting it 97 

Majority 23 

On the 12th, Mr, Curwen moved the order of the day for the third read- 
ing of the Bill. 

Mr. Windham said, that he felt it necessary for him to make 
some observations, as the bill had been so completely altered in 
the Committee, that there was danger lest, in voting against it 
now, after having voted against it before, he should appear to be 
guilty of inconsistency. It appeared to him as full of objections 
in its altered as in its original state ; although the objections were 
of a different nature. His former objections rested, first, on the 
denial of that assumption which was made the foundation of the 
bill ; secondly, that he conceived the reasonings by which it was 
supported, to be false, and dangerous in the extreme ; and, thirdly, 
that he conceived that it would open the door to infinite mischiefs. 
As to this implied corruption, if it is what the law had declared 
corruption, the law, of course, had also pointed out how it was 
to be punished ; and if the utmost attention paid to the subject of 
these corruptions could produce nothing better than this bill, he 
thought the old legislators had done very well to stop where they 



MR. CURWEN'S BILL, THIRD READING. 213 

did. He deprecated the bill originally, because he saw tne diffi- 
culty of stopping at the point they might wish. It was easy to 
•remove any abuse, if the removal of the abuse was the only thing 
to be considered, and if no regard need be had of the means to 
be employed, and of the mischiefs that might ensue. To take off 
a wen or other excrescence, the butcher would do as well as the 
surgeon, were no consideration necessary of what might be the 
consequence of cutting it off unskilfully. The real question would 
be, whether the patient would not be left in a more dangerous 
state than that of the original disease, and especially when it was 
considered that there were numbers who, instead of healing, 
would perpetually apply caustics to the wound. 

He thought the Honourable Gentleman (Mr. Curwen) was 
himself somewhat inconsistent in voting for a bill so opposite in 
its nature and tendency to that which he had originally introduced. 
He seemed to think that it w^as better to get half his measure than 
none of it. " Half a loaf," it was said, " is better than no bread," 
but not so, half a reform. It was a gross error to suppose, as 
was perpetually done, that the half of an act by which a benefit 
might be obtained was any thing like half the benefit. For in- 
stance, if the grievance complained was a beard of a month's 
growth, or a pair of those absurd whiskers with which the faces 
of some of our soldiers wei*e now disgraced, and the barber 
should say he had not soap enough to hold out for the whole face, 
but he would shave half of it, would the person so shaved be 
considered as getting rid of half the grievance 1 and more es- 
pecially, if the barber should say, as in the present instance, that 
although he shaved the hair from one side of the face, it would 
grow so much thicker on the other, so that there would be pre- 
cisely the same quantity, although only on one side of the face. 
That was really the case in the present instance ; for, as the Hon- 
ourable Baronet (Sir F. Burdett) has observed, the removal of 
the competition of private wealth would increase the power of 
the treasury. By the amended bill, the Honourable Gentleman 
(Mr. Curwen) might get half of his measure, but no part of his 
object 

He considered it most degrading and impolitic for a Govern- 
ment to comply with every temporary popular opinion ; but he 
thought it more degrading still to endeavour to delude the people, 
by giving them what was worse than nothing. The delusion, how- 
ever, would not pass. The people, he was persuaded, would find 
out the trick, and would not be made to take Birmingham 
counters for sterling gold. The preamble, and the first clause of 
this bill, appeared to be merely calculated to deceive the people, 
and make them suppose that something was done, which was, in 
fact, not done. The people, to be sure, collectively considered, 



214 MR. CURWEN'S BILL, THIRD READING 

seemed to be made only to be duped. They were resolved always 
to be duped by somebody. They were duped by those haranguers, 
who told them that eleven millions and a half of the public ex- 
penditure might be saved. They were now about to be duped by 
ministers, who were ready to pass a bill, holding out a promise 
which could never be realized. 

As to the parental affection which the Honourable Member 
(Mr. Curvven) had manifested for his bill, it was surely of the 
oddest sort possible ; for it was for a child not his own. The 
child was a perfect changeling, with no resemblance to the former 
either in features or colour. 

Qui color albus erat, nunc est contrarius albo. 
It must have been got by a negro slave. The indifference, too, 
of the Honourable Gentleman between this and the original bill, 
was not less extraordinary. It was much the same as in a case 
that he remembered of a gentleman who made proposals in a 
family where there were several daughters, and when the father 
inquired which of his daughters it was that was honoured with 
his choice, replied, "just which you please." Upon which the 
father w^as said to have replied, very properly, " Since you are 
so indifferent, I think it may as well be neither." The case, how- 
ever, was stronger here; daughters may differ widely, but they 
cannot properly be said to be contrary or opposite. " Substantia 
substantisB non contrariatur." Whereas, these bills w^ere in that 
state of opposition as to be mutually destructive of each other. 
But the Honourable Mover was determined to have a bill, and 
provided he succeeded in that object, it seemed to be no part of 
his consideration what the bill was. 

The Bill, with the Amendments, was supported by the Chancellor of the 
Exchequer, and the Solicitor-General, and opposed by Mr. Adam, Sir Francis 
Burdett, Mr. Tierney, and Mr. Wilberforce. On the motion that the Bill do 
pass, the numbers were, 

Ayes 97 

Noes 85 

Majority 12 

The following Amendment was proposed by Lord Folkstone, as a proper 
title to the Bill : — " A Bill for more effectually preventing the Sale of Seats 
in Parliament for Money, and for promoting a Monopoly thereof to the Trea- 
sury by means of Patronage." On a division, there appeared, 

For the original Title • . . 133 

For the Amendment 28 

Majority 105 



( 215 ) 
CRUELTY TO ANIMALS BILL. 

JUNE 13th, 1809. 

A Bill " for the more effectual Prevention of Cruelty towards Animals," 
had been brought into the House of Peers by Lord Erskine, and having pass- 
ed that House without a division, it had been read a second time in the House 
of Commons, on Sir Charles Bunbury's motion, also without a division. On 
the motion for going into a Committee upon this Bill, Mr, Windham address- 
ed the chair in the following speech : 

Sir, 

My first and general objection to this bill is, that the object of 
it, however commendable, is not such as to make it a fit subject 
of legislation. 

For this opinion I have at least a pretty strong voucher, in the 
universal practice of mankind down to the present moment. In 
no country has it ever yet been attempted to regulate by law the 
conduct of men towards brute animals, except so far as such 
conduct has operated to the prejudice of men. The province 
of criminal legislation has hitherto been confined to the injuries 
sustained by men. 

This fact, though affording a pretty strong presumption, (suffi- 
cient, one should think, to make us pause and not hurry through 
the house, with hardly any discussion, a bill of so novel a charac- 
ter,) is yet, I will confess, not absolutely conclusive. It may be 
right, that " all this should be changed ;" that what is now propo- 
sed, should be done, though it has never been done before. But 
the question is, at least, of some importance, and not to be deci- 
ded without great care and a most cautious consideration of all 
the consequences. The novelty of the subject, (not in its details 
or particular application, but in its general character,) is a topic 
brought forward and insisted upon, not by the opposers of the bill 
as an objection, but by its authors as a merit. In a pamphlet, cir- 
culated with great industry, (and of equal authority, as coming 
from the same source with the bill itself,) it is expressly stated, 
and with no small triumph, that the bill will form a new era of 
legislation. 

Two reflections arise upon this : first, that we ought to take 
care, (to be cautious at least,) how we begin new eras of legisla- 
tion; secondly, that we ought to have a reasonable distrust of the 
founders of such eras, lest they should be a little led away by an 
object of such splendid ambition, and be thinking more of them- 



21 G CRUELTY TO ANIMALS BILL. 

selves than of the credit of the laws or the interests of the com- 
munity. To do that which no one yet has ever thought of doing ; 
to introduce into legislation, at this period of the world, what has 
never yet been found in the laws of any country, and that too for 
a purpose of professed humanity, (or rather of something more 
than humanity, as commonly understood and practised ;) to be the 
first who has stood up as the champion of the rights of brutes, 
is as marked a distinction, even though it should not turn out 
upon examination to be as proud a one, as a man can well 
aspire to. 

The legislature, however, must not be carried away with these 
impulses, of whatever nature they may be, but must consider 
soberly and coolly, whether it may not have been something more 
than mere indiiierence or want of thought that for so many thou- 
sand years has kept men from attempting to introduce this new 
principle, as it is now justly called, of legislation, and whether 
those who engage in the attempt at present, may not do far more 
harm than good. 

Of the desirableness of the object, speaking abstractedly, there 
can be no doubt. As far as mere uninstructed wishes go, every 
man must wish, that the sufierings of all animated nature were 
less than they are. Why they are permitted at all, is a question, 
as has been observed by a great and pious writer,* which must 
for ever continue to perplex mankind, as long as we are allowed 
to see only in part. 

But there is not only the wish that suffering universally should, 
if possible, be less than it is ; there is a duty, I am ready to admit, 
upon man (the only animal, it is to be observed, that takes cogni- 
zance of others' painf), to conform himself to that wish, in the 
little sphere to which his influence extends. Morality itself may 
perhaps be defined, " a desire rationally conducted to promote 
general happiness," and consequently to diminish general pain ; 

* Dr. Johnson's Review of Soame Jenyns on the Origin of Evil, 
f Compassion proper to mankind appears, 
Which Nature witness'd, when she lent us tears: 
Of tender sentiments we only give 
This proof; to weep is our prerogative. 

Trans, of Juvknal. 
And further on in the Original, 

Separat hoc nos, 
A grege mutorum : atque ideo venerabile soli 
Sortiti ingenium, divinorumque capaces, 
******* 

Sensum a ccelesti demissum traximus Arce, 
Cujus egent prona et terram spectantia. 



CRUELTY TO ANIMALS BILL. 217 

and I am far from contending, that the operation of that principle, 
so glorious to man, should not be made to embrace in its effects 
the whole of animal life. Let the duty be as strongly enforced, 
as far as precept and persuasion can go, and the feeling be as 
largely indulged as its most eager advocates can wish. I have 
no objection to any sacrifices, which any one may be disposed to 
make in his own person, for sparing the pain or promoting the 
enjoyment of others of his fellow-creatures, whether men or in- 
ferior animals. The more lively the sympathy, within certain 
limits, and the greater the sacrifice, the more will be the amiable- 
ness and the merit. Within certain limits, I have said, because, 
theoretically, there do appear to be limits, which those feelings 
cannot pass, without defeating, instead of promoting, the ends of 
Providence, which must be presumed to have intended them as 
the means of attaining the greatest qiianium of happiness. Sym- 
pathy seems to be necessary to the production of virtue, as well 
as for securing a better use of those powers, which man is allow- 
ed to possess for the good or harm both of his own species and 
of other portions of animal life. But were every one to feel with 
equal sensibility the pains of others as his own, the world must 
become one unvaried scene of suffering, in which the woes of all 
would be accumulated upon each, and every man be charged 
with a weight of calamity beyond what his individual powers of 
endurance are calculated to support. 

There is little danger, however, of this excess. One may safely 
lay it down as a rule, that the more any one feels for the suffering 
of others, the more virtuous he should be accounted ; and that he 
is at liberty, in this respect, to give a full loose to his feelings. 

But the very same considerations will make it dangerous to 
allow of systems in which men are to become virtuous at others' 
expense, and be armed with powers to enforce upon others those 
sympathies and feelings which may be wanting in themselves. It 
is not sufficient to state of any thing, that it is matter of obliga- 
tion, to justify an attempt to enforce it by law. Laws are almost 
universally restrictive. They restrain acts which are injurious to 
the community, and which are such moreover as can be clearly 
defined. There are whole classes of duties, know to writers on 
morals under the name of Imperfect Obligations, which no one 
ever thought of enforcing by law ; not because they are, in point 
of moral duty, less obligatory than others, but because they are 
of a nature that, to exist at all, must be spontaneous, or are such 
as that law cannot be made to apply to them. What idea can 
any one have of a law to enforce charity, gratitude, benevolence, 
or innumerable others of the Christian virtues? If a man with 
thousands in his coffers, and of which, perhaps, he makes no use, 
should suffer a fellow-creature, whose case is fully known to him, 
19 2C 



218 CRUELTY TO ANIMALS BILL. 

to perish in the next street for want of a few shillings, you might 
inveigh as bitterly as you pleased, and as he most justly would 
deserve, against his want of humanity ; but would you ever think, 
that there ought to be a law to punish him 1 The same may be 
said of cases that occur, I fear, too frequently, under the influence 
of the poor-laws, where paupers at the point of death, and women 
expecting at every moment to be seized with the pangs of labour, 
are turned out into the streets or roads, sooner than by the death 
in the one case, or the birth in the other, a burthen should be 
brought upon the parish. The poor-laws are an example of an 
attempt to force charity; and fine encouragement they give to 
such attempts ! But after all that they have done, — unfortunately 
done, — how much is left, which the law does not attempt to reach ! 

It will not be dilhcult to show, that the case is much the same 
in respect to the objects now meant to be provided for. The 
measure sets out with a preamble, containing a lofty maxim of 
morality or theology, too grand to be correct, too sublime to be 
seen distinctly, and most ludicrously disproportioned to the enact- 
ments that follow ; wherein it is declared that God has subdued 
various classes of animals to the use and benefit of man ; and 
from thence it seems to be inferred, not very consequentially, that 
we ought to treat them with humanity. — That we ought to treat 
with humanity, that is, that we ought, in all we do respecting 
them, to have a consideration of their pains and pleasures, is a 
maxim which I am not at all disposed to controvert ; but it does 
not seem immediately inferrible from the permission before recited. 
If humanity indeed be carried to its utmost extent, it must rather 
have the effect of abridging that permission, and of leading us, 
like the Gentoos, at least to abstain from eating the animals thus 
consigned to us, if not from using them in any way that should not 
be productive to them of more gratification than suffering. The 
humanity, however, that is now recommended, is not meant, it 
seems, to go that length. We may destroy them for the purposes 
of food, that is, of appetite and luxury, to whatever amount, and 
in whatever ways those purposes require. Another class of us, 
likewise, namely the rich, may destroy them, in any modes, how- 
ever lingering and cruel, which are necessary for the purposes of 
sport and diversion. Even independently of the doubt which these 
striking exceptions create, we may ask reasonably, what is hu- 
manity ? Is it any thing capable of being defined by precise 
limits? or is it a mere question of degree, and something conse- 
quently which is not capable of being set forth in words, but must 
be left to the decision of some living tribunal, giving its judgment 
upon each particular case ? 

Here we come back to the first and fundamental objection, to 
legislating upon this, and various similar subjects. You inflict 



CRUELTY TO ANIMALS BILL. 219 

pains and penalties, upon conditions wiiich no man is able pre- 
viously to ascertain. You require men to live by an unknown 
rule. You make the condition of life uncertain by exposing men 
to the operation of a law, which they cannot know till it visits 
them in the shape of punishment. 

What is humanity? It is generally the having a consideration 
for the sufferings of others (men or other sentient beings,) as com- 
pared with pains or gratifications of our own. But what the 
proportion is necessary to be observed between our own and 
others' pain, or, (as is oftener the case in the subject now under 
consideration,) what the proportion is between others' pain and 
our pleasure or interest, no mortal attempts to ascertain ; nor is 
it one and the same, but as various as there are various men, and 
various circumstances and subjects to which it is applied. It is 
not only not the same in any tv/o men, but not the same in the 
same man for half an hour together, being changed, according as 
he applies it to one case or another, or is in one humour or another, 
or, above all, is judging in the case of others or of himself. This 
is no exaggerated representation. As a proof, let any man go 
through the instances wdiere his humanity has been shocked at 
one time, and where at others it has remained perfectly in repose. 

The instances of ill treatment of animals, which most frequent- 
ly occur, (and are most in the view of the advocates of this bill,) 
are those which arise from passion ; a coachman whipping his 
coach-horses, a carman beating his cart-horse. The undisturbed 
spectator, who knows nothing of the causes that have led to this, 
and who, as Swift says of men bearing others' misfortunes, can 
bear the provocations which have inflamed another, " perfectly 
like a Christian," is full of virtuous ire, and inveighs hotly against 
the man who can thus go into a senseless passion with his horse ; 
but he does not consider that the irritability here shown may have 
come upon a man wearied by long labour, and soured by some 
recent vexation, and have been excited withal by something in 
the horse which he has been led, foolishly for the most part, to 
consider as perverseness ; nor does the blamer recollect, how he 
himself, the day before, when he was riding comfortably to get 
an appetite for his dinner, spurred his horse most unmercifully (as 
violently as his fears would let him), because the animal had been 
guilty of starting or stumbling. 

Here is an instance of that different standard of humanity, 
which men have in their breasts for themselves or others, for their 
cooler and for their passionate moments; and we may thence see 
what flagrant and scandalous injustice would be done, under a 
criterion subject to such variation. 

It is no answer to say, that the judgment would not be unjust, 
merely because the judge might have been guilty of the same 



220 CRUELTY TO ANIMALS BILL. 

offence : and that as he might punish others, others might punisfi 
him. The judge, we know, would not be punished. Few would 
inform against His Worship, the 'Squire, because he had rode his 
hunter to death, or unmercifully whipped, or, in a fit of passion,, 
shot his pointer. The scandal therefore in the general administra- 
tion of the law would remain, even though those who were con- 
victed were punished justly. 

But it is not true, that passion would not be mixed even in the 
judgment itself. Passion may be suspected to mix itself, and does 
in fact continually mix itself, in all judgments can'ied on by close 
and summary jurisdictions, and by persons who are little likely to 
be made responsible for their conduct. Such jurisdictions must 
of necessity perhaps exist in many cases, and where the necessity 
can be shown, must be submitted to ; but they are not on that 
account the less to be deprecated, or more fit to be adopted where 
their establishment must be a matter of choice. There is, in 
truth, one general passion applicable to the present case, which 
would not fail to operate in every part of the process ; in the judg- 
ment often, but still more frequently in the information ; and which 
will form a complete answer to that childish plea in favour of the 
bill, viz. that as no reward is given, no temptation will be held 
out to informers. 

The passion here alluded to is one of great account in human 
nature, though not so often noted as it ought to be, namely, the 
love of tormenting. There was a book written some years ago, 
commonly ascribed to a sister of the author of Tom Jones, but 
really the work of a lady of the name of Collyer, which treats 
this passion, under the title of 'The Art of ingeniously Torment- 
ing ;' and after illustrating, with great acuteness and much nice 
observation of character and manners, its operation in various 
relations of domestic life, — as, how to torment an humble com- 
panion, how a wife should torment her husband, and a husband 
his wife, — concludes with a chapter, entitled, ' General Rules how- 
to torment all your acquaintance.' It will be found by any one 
who may peruse this book, how much there is of this principle 
continually in operation, of which the peruser has often witness- 
ed the effects, without at the time having understood or attended 
to the cause. 

But frequent as these instances are, as seen and described by 
the author referred to, they are nothing in extent and amount to 
those which are carried on, under a new and more enlarged head, 
which did not come within the scheme of her work, nor fall, 
possibly, within the scope of her contemplation, viz. the art of 
tormenting people in the name of the public good, an art which 
seems to have been gaining ground considerably in our days, and 
to have had a larger share in the acts of the legislature, as well 



CRUELTY TO ANIMALS BILL. 221 

as to have produced more annoyance in society, than people are 
commonly aware of. Here the trade of course is wholesale, and 
carried on upon a large scale. And it is not to be told, how cawer 
the passion is, when animated and sanctioned by the auxiliary 
motive of supposed zeal for the public service. It is childish of 
people to ask, What pleasure can any one have in tormentinof 
others'? None in the mere pain inflicted, but the greatest possible 
in the various effects that may accompany it, — in the parade of 
virtue and in the exercise of power. A man cannot torment 
another without a considerable exercise of power, — in itself a 
pretty strong and general passion. But if he can at once exer- 
cise his power and make a parade of his virtue (which will emi- 
nently be the case in the powers to be exercised under this law), 
the combination of the two forms a motive, which, we may fairly 
say, flesh and blood cannot withstand. Young's ' universal pas- 
sion' has not a wider range, nor a stronger influence, than the 
union of these two feelings. 

In what a state then should w6 put the lower orders of people 
in this country (for they are the only persons who would be af- 
fected), when, for the sake of punishing some rare and hardly 
heard-of enormities, (the narrow but only rational object of the 
measure,) we should let loose upon them a principle of action like 
that above described, armed with such a weapon as this bill would 
put into its hands? All the fanatical views and feelings, all the 
little bustling spirit of regulation, all the private enmities and quar- 
rels would be at work, in addition to those more general passions 
before stated, and men would be daily punished by summary ju- 
risdiction, or left to wait in gaol for the meeting of a more regu- 
lar tribunal, for offences, which are incapable of being defined, 
and which must be left therefore to the arbitrary and fluctuating 
standard which the judge in either case might happen to carry in 
his breast. The bill, instead of being called, A Bill for preventing 
Cruelty to Animals, should be entitled, A Bill for harassing and 
oppressing certain Classes among the lower Orders of His Ma- 
jesty's Subjects. 

The manner in which it would be thrown upon them, and the 
scandalous injustice with which it would be attended, may be ex- 
emplified by one of the instances set forth by the authors of the 
bill themselves. The cruelties suflered by post-horses are a 
favourite topic. But on whom is the punishment to fall? On the 
post-boy, or on the traveller ? On the post-boy, who is the only 
person who would be seen inflicting these severities ? Or on the 
traveller, who sits snug in the chaise, having only hinted to the 
post-boy, that he meant to dine at the next stage, and that if he 
should not bring him in in time, he would never go to his master's 
house again, nor give him any thing for himself. 
19* 



222 CRUELTY TO ANIMALS BILL. 

This case of post-horses belongs also to another head, to which 
I will now proceed ; namely, the objections that lie against the 
bill on the score that it is doing that by law, which, if people are 
sincere in their feelings, may be done by other methods. 

Laws never ought to be called in but where other powers fail. 
Upon whom is the whole force of this bill to be discharged? 
what are the instances which are uppermost in every one's mind, 
which have been first cited as proofs of the necessity of such a 
measure, and in which indeed the bill either will or is intended to 
act? Why, the cruelties inflicted on horses by grooms, coach- 
men, post-boys, carmen, servants in husbandry, or others, to whom 
such animals are entrusted. But whose property are these ani- 
mals 1 Why, the property of persons, who have some (generally 
great) power respectively over the several classes of persons 
above enumerated. Why do not these masters and owners exert 
themselves in earnest, in punishing such offences whenever they 
come within their cognizance, or are even known to them in a 
way which, though not sufficient possibly for a legal process, 
would be abundantly sufficient for all the purposes that are here 
in question ? But, no ; they are often the direct parties, the parties 
interested in, and the parties instigating, the very cruelties or 
severities which they affect to decry. 

One of the favourite instances in the fashionable female circles, 
as they are called, of this town, and who appear, by-the-bye, to 
have been very diligently canvassed, are the cases with which 
the members of these societies have been continually shocked, of 
coachmen whipping their horses in public places : an instance, by 
the way, by no means of magnitude enough to call for the inter- 
ference of the legislature. But be its magnitude what it will, 
why must the legislature be called in 1 are there not means (suffi- 
cient probably for punishing the offence adequately in each in- 
stance, but certainly for preventing the practice,) in the power 
possessed by masters and mistresses? But apply to any of these 
ladies, and satisfy them, after much difficulty, that their coachman 
was the most active and the most in the wrong, in the struggle, 
which caused so much disturbance at the last Opera, and the an- 
swer probably will be, " Oh ! to be sure; it is very shocking; but 
then John is so clever in a crowd ! the other night at Lady Such- 
a-one's, when all the world were perishing in the passage, waiting 
for their carriages, ours was up in an instant, and we were at 
Mrs. Such-a-one's half an hour before any one else. We should 
not know what to do, if we were to part with him." Is it the 
coachman here, who most deserves punishment ? or is it for the 
parties here described to call for a law, which is to lay the foun- 
dation of a new era of legislation, and to operate with great 
severity and most flagrant injustice upon whole classes of people 1 



CRUELTY TO ANIMALS BILL. 223 

A similar instance will be found in the case just alluded to, of 
the traveller and the post-horses. Whose fault is it, in nineteen 
cases out of twenty, that these sufferings are incurred 1 The tra- 
veller drives up in haste, his servant having half-killed one post- 
horse in riding forward to announce his approach ; the horses are 
brought out; they are weak, spavined, galled, hardly dry from 
their last stage. What is the dialogue that ensues i Does the 
traveller ever offer to stop on his journey, or even wait till the 
horses can be refreshed 1 Such a thought never enters his head ; 
he swears at the landlord, and threatens never to come again to 
his house, because he expects to go only seven miles an hour, 
•when he had hoped to go nine ; when the landlord has assured him, 
that the horses, however bad in their appearance, will carry His 
Honour very well, and has directed the " lads" to " make the best 
of their way," the traveller's humanity is satisfied, and he hears 
with perfect composure and complacency the cracking whips of 
the postilions, only intimating to them, by-the-bye, that if they do 
not bring him in in time, they shall not receive a farthing. 

What revolting and disgusting hypocrisy is it in persons daily 
witnessing without remonstrance, or acting in such scenes, who 
will not sacrifice the smallest particle of their convenience in consi- 
deration of any pain that is to result from it, to be inveighing, with 
such exaggerated sensibility, against the cruelties practised on the 
brute creation, and calling for a law to punish them ; much of 
that cruelty being incurred in their service, and under their imme- 
diate inspection and orders ! Where is the justice of punishing 
the innkeeper here, who, if he refuses his horses, loses his custom- 
ers and his means of livelihood, or the post-boy, who, when once 
employed, must perform the task assigned him by such means as 
he has, and must ply his whip, till the pain or threat overcomes 
the pain of the effort, which is requisite to carry the horses 
through their stage 1 

Such, Sir, are the proofs of the injustice of the law, and such 
are the proofs that no law, just or unjust, is necessary, even in the 
cases to which it applies. 

But what shall be said of the flagrant and horrid injustice, of 
withdrawing from its operation and cognizance, a whole class of 
cases, which, if such a bill be to pass, could not, one should think, be 
allowed to stand an instant, as being more than any others, in the 
very line and point-blank aim of the statute, and having nothing to 
protect them, but that which ought, in justice and decency, to be 
the strongest reason against them ; namely, that they are the 
mere sports of the rich ? Is it to be endured or believed, that a 
legislature setting about the great and original work of enacting 
laws to prevent the sufferings of the brute creation, should still 
reserve to themselves, and that too by a most severe and invidious 



224 CRUELTY TO ANIMALS BILL. 

code, the privilege of killing animals, by a cruel and lingering 
death, in nnere sport and wantonness 1 The reason assigned for this 
extraordinary omission, by the author of the bill, may be suspected 
as having been intended as a mere mockery. It is said that being 
fercB naturce (a learned distinction, but never before, surely, so 
whimsically applied), they are not entitled to the protection of 
man. But why, because they do not ask his protection, are they 
to be liable in consequence to be persecuted and tormented by 
him 1 On the contrary, if he does nothing for their good, he 
ought the rather to be required to do nothing for their harm. 
They would perish, it is said, if left to themselves, often by a 
cruel death. But what is the animal, man not excepted, that is 
not liable so to perish? If this argument be good for any thing, it 
may justify, in pure kindness, our killing one another. Another 
danger is, that they would become so numerous as to overrun the 
earth. But this danger, formidable as it may be in respect to 
other animals, certainly does not apply to one great class, with 
which, notwithstanding, we make pretty free, namely, the fishes. 

After all, when humanity is the question, what connection is 
there between the necessity of destroying those animals and the 
right which we claim of being ourselves the destroyers ? It is 
very public-spirited, no doubt, in all the higher orders of people 
to offer themselves gratuitously as vermin-killers to the rest of the 
community; but it is an odd choice for them, as men of human- 
ity; particularly as it is found, that these vermin are encouraged 
and protected for the sake of being afterwards killed, and certain- 
ly by a mode of destruction, in many instances, not capable of 
being exceeded in cruelty by any to which they could naturally 
be Uable. Even in the case of sheep and oxen, which must, it is 
admitted, be killed, and might be killed possibly by a gentleman 
with as little pain as by the butcher, we should think it an odd 
taste in any one, to be desirous literally to kill his own mutton 
and to beg of his butcher that he might be allowed on the next 
slaughter-day to take his place. 

It is in vain therefore by such wretched evasions and subter- 
fuges to attempt to disguise the fact, that if with such a preamble 
on our statutes, and with acts passed in consequence to punish the 
lower classes for any cruelty inflicted upon animals, we continue 
to practise and to reserve in great measure to ourselves, the sports 
of hunting, shooting, and fishing, we must exhibit ourselves as the 
most hardened and unblushing hypocrites that ever shocked the 
feelings of mankind. I do not know any thing, that could so 
justly call for a measure, which I have always been among the 
first to resist, a Parliamentary Reform. Strongly as I have always 
declared against such a measure, as wholly uncalled-for by any 
thing in the practice of parliament as now constituted, I must 



CRUELTY TO ANIMALS BILL, 225 

fairly confess, that if it siiould appear in any instance that so scan- 
dalous a distinction could be made between the interests of high 
and low, rich and poor, I should be not a little shaken in my opposi- 
tion, and must be driven in a great measure from that argument, 
which, as long as it can be maintained, is conclusive against every 
such proposal, namely, that there is no class in the community 
whose interests, even as parliament is at present constituted, are 
not upon tlie whole fairly taken care of What a pretty figure 
must we make in the world, if in one column of the newspapers 
we should read a string of instances of men committed under 
'the Cruelty Bill,' some to the county-gaol to wait for trial 
at the assizes, some by summary process to the house of correc- 
tion ; and in another part an article of ' Sporting Intelligence,' 
setting forth the exploits of my Lord Such-a-One's hounds ; — how 
the hounds threw ofi^ at such a cover ; that bold Reynard went 
off in a gallant style, &c. and was not killed till after a chase of 
ten hours ; that of fifty horsemen who were out at the beginning not 
above five were in at the death ; that three horses died in the field, 
and several it was thought would never recover ; and that upon 
the whole it was the most glorious day's sport ever remembered 
since the pack was first set up ! Is it possible that men could stand 
the shame of such statements ? That this house, which tolerates 
such sports, nay, which claims them, as the peculiar privilege of 
the class to which it belongs, a house of hunters and shooters, 
should, while they leave these untouched, be affecting to take the 
brute creation under their protection ; and be passing bills for the 
punishment of every carter or driver, whom an angry passenger 
should accuse of chastising his horse with over-severity 1 

I beg not to be understood, as condemning the sports, to which 
I have been alluding, and much less, as charging with cruelty all 
those who take delight in them, cruel as the acts themselves un- 
doubtedly are. I will not dispute with my friend, the Honourable 
Mover (Sir Charles Bunbury), what the quantum of cruelty is in 
horse-racing ; whether the whip is always as much spared as he 
supposes, or whether, when it is, the forbearance proceeds from 
humanity, or from an opinion that more would be lost by the 
horse's swerving and the rider's seat being rendered unsteady 
than would be gained by the pain. Though no sportsman my- 
self, I shall lament the day, should it ever arrive, when, from false 
refinement and mistaken humanity, what are called field-sports 
(or sports indeed of almost any kind), shall be abolished in this 
country, or fall into disuse. So far from arraigning those who 
follow them, my doctrine has ever been, that strange as it may 
seem, cruel sports do not make cruel people : and I will quote for 
this the great body of the English country gentlemen, and of the 
English people, now and in all former times. 
2D 



226 CRUELTY TO ANIMALS BILL. 

But still while these practices are permitted, beneficial as I may 
think them in their general consequences, but cruel as they cer- 
tainly are in their immediate effects, I can never consent, that the 
house should go off' into such a wild and frantic act of hypocrisy, 
as to hold itself out, all at once, for the champion of the brute 
creation, to an extent unattempted yet in the laws of any country. 
I deny, generally speaking, the existence of the abuses complain- 
ed of. I deny at least the increase of them, and that the treatment 
of animals is worse now than in former times, or with us than in 
other countries. There is in general, no doubt, a very coarse and 
harsh treatment of them, such as may be expected from the coarse- 
ness of the people to whose care they are for the most part com- 
mitted ; but even this is often founded more in ignorance and un- 
skilfulness, than in malice or ferocity. Such as it is, however, let 
it be corrected by all the means that can with propriety be appli- 
ed ; by reproof, by discountenance, by example, by admonition, by 
punishments finally of various kinds that might with ease be re- 
sorted to, and be made abundantly sufficient for their purpose, 
were not men more ready on all occasions to call for new laws, 
than to tax their own selfish indolence by a due exertion of the 
powers which they already possess. Many of these instances are 
moreover falsely estimated by those who allow their sensibilities 
(always prompt and eager in their application to others) to outrun 
their judgment. It has happened to me as often as to my neigh- 
bours, to have squabbles with carmen and drivers of different de- 
scriptions for ill treating their horses : but I have more than once 
had reason afterwards to think myself in the wrong, and that my 
complaints have been ill-founded, or were, at least, overcharged. 

Instances are however unquestionably to be met with, of shock- 
ing and atrocious cruelty, which every one must wish to have the 
means of punishing. A case of this sort, known or related, instant- 
ly inflames men's minds, and disposes them, without further con- 
sideration, to call for a law. But a law is a serious thing, and 
ought not to be adopted, merely upon such impulses. There has 
grown up in the country, of late years, a habit of far too great 
facility in the passing of laws. The immediate object only is 
looked to ; some marked cases are selected, in which the intend- 
ed operation of the law coincides with the general feeling : but no 
account is taken of the numerous instances of individuals who 
would silently become its victims, and of the depredations which 
it would make on the general happiness and security of persons 
in lower life. 

It is always a question, whether the good effects of a law, in a 
few rare instances, are a compensation for the general constraint 
imposed by it, and the cases in which it will operate unjustly. 
Nor is it true, that in the very instances that will be adduced on 



CRUELTY TO ANIMALS BILL, 22? 

behalf of the present bill, the crime will go (or at least need go) 
unpunished, even though there be no law specially provided for 
the purpose. What will be the number of cases, for example, in 
which the animal ill-treated is not the property of some one, who, 
if his zeal for humanity be what the clamours of the advocates for 
this bill would seem to indicate, may surely, either by himself, or 
with the aid of others, inflict ample punishment on the offender, 
on the score of mere pecuniary injury? But even where means 
for that purpose cannot be had, or an injury of that description 
cannot be pleaded, the mere publication of the fact, which may 
be the work of any one, with the steps that may be taken to turn 
upon it the public attention and indignation, will produce in the 
end consequences as sevei'e as any that the case requires, or that 
can be hoped for from a law. If there be not virtue or humanity 
enough in the country to make the commission of such outrages 
ruinous to the party even in point of fortune and circumstances, 
to hunt down such oflenders by a general exclusion from all the 
benefits of intercourse, and by marking them out as objects of 
general detestation, it may well be doubted what the eflect of a 
law would be, and whether among those who call for such a law, 
there is not more of a fondness for persecution, and lust of power 
depending for its exertion on little else than their own will, than 
of real concern for the interests of humanity. 

It must at all events be more by manners than by laws, that 
any good can be done upon this subject. Animals used in the 
service of man, are left unavoidably so entirely at his mercy, are 
exposed so much to clandestine mischief, and can so little make 
known their own injuries, that it will always be a question, whether 
an attempt to protect them with vindictive justice, will not subject 
them to more ill-treatment than it is likely to guard them from. If 
manners cannot protect them, miserable indeed must be their con- 
dition, in spite of all that law can do for them. It is not possible, 
in the nature of things, that law can with so much precision de- 
fine the duty, as to be able to ensure to the breach of it the in- 
tended punishment, without trusting more than in the imperfect 
state of human jurisdictions it is fit to trust to the discretion of 
the magistrate. It is a duty evidently of that sort which are 
called 'imperfect obligations;' of which the definition rs, that 
though equally binding in conscience with other duties, they are 
not capable of being enforced by law. They must in consequence 
be left to morals. Let them be inculcated' upon that footing in 
every possible way, from the pulpit, from the press, by precept, 
by exiiortation, by example. But let us not run counter to the 
nature of things, by attempting, what, the authors of the bill itself 
tell us, was never yet attempted : and above all things let us not 
bring in such a bill as the present, which, without contributing 



§28 CRUELTY TO ANIMALS BILL. 

possibly in the smallest degree to the very object in view, will let 
loose a most cruel scourge upon the lower orders of the people, 
will commit the most flagrant injustice in the manner in which 
the bill will be executed, and constitute a general charge of injus- 
tice against the house, such as it has never before been exposed 
to, and from which it will be impossible to vindicate it. 

Sir, the objections to the bill are indeed so numerous, and of 
such a nature, that I am satisfied it would never have proceeded 
so far as to be now a subject of discussion in the House of Com- 
mons, if those who are really adverse to it would fairly have 
stood by their opinion, and had not been awed by the apprehen- 
sion, that in opposing a bill, directed to objects apparently so 
praiseworthy, and supported by topics so plausible and popular, 
however ultimately fallacious, they should render their own hu- 
manity questionable, and even expose themselves to be considered 
as the direct abettors and advocates of cruelty. I have no doubt 
that such will be the charge made against me. But to that I must 
be content to submit, sooner than fail in the duty of opposing a 
measure so objectionable as I think this to be, in every view in 
which it can be contemplated. 

I should have no fear in trusting my justification to the reasons 
I have already given, much as they fall short of what I might 
urge upon the subject, if I were not unwilling to trespass further 
on the attention of the house. But whatever has been wanting 
on my part will be amply supplied by an admirable paper in a 
late publication,* in which will be found much masterly discussion 
upon this subject, considered in a point of view in which, for the 
present, I have abstained from speaking of it, namely, in its con- 
nection with the Society for the Suppression of Vice, As well 
with a view to that Society as to the present subject, and to the 
connection between the two, I earnestly recommend to Gentlemen 
the perusal of that paper. 

Sir, I shall now propose to negative the motion for the Speak- 
er's leaving the Chair, for the purpose of moving afterwards that 
the bill be committed to this day three months. 

Mr. Stephen, Mr. Jekyll, Sir Samuel Romilly, Mr. Morris, and Lord Por- 
chester, spoke in favour of the Bill. Mr. Davies Giddy, Mr. Frankland, Mr. 
Perceval, and the Solicitor-General doubted the necessity of it. The house di- 
vided. 

For going into the committee 40 

Against it 27 

Majority 13 



* Edinb. Review, No. 26. 



CRUELTY TO ANIMALS BILL. 229 

But on a subsequent day, on a motion that the House should go into a Com- 
mittee on the Bill, Mr. Windham moved as an Amendment, that the Bill 
should be committed that day three months. Upon a division, there appeared, 

For the committee 27 

Against it , . . 37 

Majority against the Bill 10 

The Bill was of course thrown out. 

In the next session, the Bill was again brought into the House of Peers by 
Lord Erskine, with some alterations, and was read a first and second time, 
and committed ; but it was subsequently withdrawn by the Noble Framer of 
it, who stated that he hoped to be able soon to prepare some other measure 
on this subject which would receive the unanimous vote of the House. 
20 



( 230 ) 



WALCHEREN EXPEDITION. 

MARCH 30th, 1810. 

After a long investigation, and the examination of many witnesses at the 
Bar of the House, on the subject of the Expedition to the Scheldt, Lord Por- 
chester, on the 26th March, moved the following Resolutions : 

" 1. That, on the 28th of July last, and subsequent days, an armament, 
consisting of 39,000 land forces, 37 sail of the line, two ships of 50, three of 
44 guns, 24 frigates, 31 sloops, five bomb-vessels, 23 gun-brigs, sailed on the 
late expedition to the Scheldt, having for its object the capture or destruction 
of the enemy's ships, either building at Antwerp or Flushing, or afloat on 
the Scheldt; the destruction of the arsenals and dock-yards at Antwerp, 
Torneux, and Flushing ; the reduction of the Island of Walcheren ; and the 
rendering, if possible, the Scheldt no longer navigable for ships of war. 

" 2. That Flushing surrendered on the 15th of August, whereby the reduc- 
tion of the Island of Walcheren was completed : and that on the 27th of 
August, all attempts on the fleets and arsenals of the enemy at Antwerp 
were, by the unanimous opinion of the Lieutenant-Generals, declared to be 
impracticable, and were abandoned. 

" 3. That the destruction of the basin, dock-yard, arsenal, magazuies, and 
naval store-houses, of the town of Flushing, and of such part of the sea-de- 
fences as it was found proper to destroy, having been eSected on the 11th of 
December, the Island of Walcheren was, on the 23d of December, evacuated 
by his Majesty's forces, and the expedition ended. 

" 4. That it does not appear to this House, that the failure of this expedi- 
tion is imputable to the conduct of the army or the navy in the execution of 
their instructions, relative to the military and naval operations in the Scheldt. 

"5. That, on the 19th of August, a malignant disorder showed itself among 
His Majesty's troops ; and that, on the 8th of September, the number of sick 
amounted to upwards of 10,948 men. 

" 6. That it appears, by the report of the physicians appointed to investi- 
gate the nature and causes of the malady to which His Majesty's troops were 
thus exposed, that the disease is one which prevails periodically in the Islands 
of Zealand, and is of peculiar malignity there, and which constantly follows 
a law of season, appearing towards the end of summer, becoming more 
severe in the autumnal months, declining in October, and nearly ceasing 
in November. That perfect recoveries are rare, convalescence never secure, 
and that the recurrence of fever quickly lays the foundation of complaints 
which render a large proportion of the sufferers inefficient for future military 
purposes. 



WALCHEREN EXPEDITION. 231 

"7. That of the army which embarked for service in the Scheldt, 60 offi- 
cers and 3900 men, exclusive of those killed by the enemy, had died before 
the 1st of February last, and on that day, 217 officers, and 11,269 men, were 
reported sick. 

"8. That the expedition to the Scheldt was undertaken under circum- 
stances which afforded no rational hope of adequate success, and at the pre- 
cise season of the year when the malignant disease which has proved so fatal 
to His Majesty's brave troops was known to be most prevalent ; and that the 
advisers of this ill-judged enterprise are, in the opinion of this House, deeply 
responsible for the heavy calamities with which its failure has been attended." 

There was also a second set of Resolutions, as follows, relatmg to the 
retention of the Island of Walcheren : — 

" 1. That Lieutenant-General Sir Eyre Coote having, on the 9th of Sep- 
tember, been left in the command of Walcheren, with an army of about 
15,000 men, did, on that day, make an official report on the state of the 
island, the extent of force required effectually to guard it, the nature and con- 
dition of its defences, and the number of men then sick and unfit for duty ; 
representing, that after such his exposition. His Majesty's ministers would be 
the best judges of the propriety or possibility of keeping the island ; and 
adding, that the advantages must be great, indeed, which could compensate 
the loss of lives and treasure which the retention must necessarily occasion. 

" 2. That, on the 23d of September, Sir Eyre Coote stated to His Majesty's 
ministers, that the alarming progress of disease was such, that if it should 
continue, in the same proportion, for three weeks longer (as, he added, there 
was every probability that it would), our possession of the island must become 
very precarious. 

"3. That, on the 6th of October, Sir Eyre Coote, after stating that the 
number of sick was increasing, and that the effective force was thereby ren- 
dered so trivial, as to make the defence of the island, if it should be attacked, 
extremely precarious, did express his anxiety to be informed of the intentions 
of His Majesty's Government as to the future state of Walcheren. 

" 4. That, notwithstanding these, and many other pressing representations, 
on the alarming condition of the troops, and the danger to which they were 
exposed, His Majesty's ministers did neglect to come to any decision until the 
4th of November, and that the final evacuation of Walcheren did not take 
place until the 23d of December. 

" 5. That, on the 10th of September, the number of sick in the Island of 
Walcheren was, exclusive of officers, 6,938 ; and that the total number of 
sick embarked for England, between the 15th of September and the 16th of 
November, was 11,199, making in that period an increase of sick of 4,268. 

" 6. That although the great object of the expedition had been abandoned 
as impracticable, a large proportion of the British army was (without any 
urgent or determined purpose in view, or any prospect of national advantage 
to justify such a hazard, or to compensate such a sacrifice) left by His Ma- 
jesty's ministers to the imminent danger of attack from the enemy, and e.x- 



232 WALCHEREN EXPEDITION. 

posed during a period of more than three months, and under circumstances 
of aggravated hardships, to the fatal ravages of a disease, which on the 31st 
of August had been officially announced to be daily increasing to a most 
alarming degree. 

" 7. That such the conduct of His Majesty's advisers calls for the severest 
censure of this House." 

Lord Castlereagh defended the measure of the expedition at great length, 
and the House adjourned. 

On the 27th March, Mr. Ponsonby supported the Resolutions, and Lieu- 
tenant-General Crauford opposed them. The latter concluded by moving, as 
an Amendment, two Resolutions, the first of them justifying the measure of 
the expedition, on account of the great increase in the enemy's naval arsenals, 
and also as a diversion in favour of Austria ; and in the other Resoktion, after 
expressing regret that so many valuable lives had been lost, the retention of 
Walcheren was declared to be necessary on account of the state of the nego- 
tiations between Austria and France. 

On the 29th March, Mr. Grattan and Mr. Whitbread spoke at length in 
favour of the Original Resolutions, and Mr. Canning against them. 

On the 30th, Sir Thomas Turton, Sir Francis Burdett, and Mr, Bathurst, 
gave their support to Lord Porchester's Resolutions. General Loftus and Mr 
Peel spoke in favour of the Amendment. 

Mr. Windham addressed the Chair in a speech of which the 
following is the substance — 

Sir, 
I SHALL not occupy the time of the house by commenting upon 
the theories and sentiments of the Honourable Baronet (Sir 
Francis Burdett), as the judicious arguments of the Honourable 
Gentleman, who spoke last but one (Mr. Bragge Bathurst), have 
precluded the necessity of any observations from me upon that 
subject. I shall therefore proceed as shortly as I can to offer to 
the house my sentiments upon the disastrous expedition to Wal- 
cheren — that monstrous child of presumption and folly — and in 
order to present to the house a full and clear view of the subject, 
I shall feel it necessary to take the matter up at an earlier period, 
and to discuss it upon broader grounds, than the Gentlemen who 
have preceded me in this debate have thought it expedient to do. 
In stating this, I beg the house not to be alarmed with the appre- 
hension that I intend to occupy any very material portion of their 
time. The mode in which I propose to discuss the question, will 
probably be found to be the most concise that could be adopted ; 
as it frequently happens, according to an old proverb, that "the 
farthest way about is the nearest way home." I shall attempt to 
show, not only that this expedition could not possibly succeed, 
but that even success would not have justified the employment of 



WALCHEREN EXPEDITION. 233 

such a proportion of the national force to the purposes of such an 
expedition. I am aware, that in supporting the latter proposition, 
I shall have the popular voice against me ; but it has frequently 
been my lot to contend against the senseless clamours of the 
populace, and I have not unfrequently had the satisfaction to find 
that measures which have been proposed by me in direct oppo- 
sition to popular opinion, have ultimately, by that very opinion, 
been fully sanctioned. Nothing can be more derogatory from the 
character of a statesman, than a perpetual hankering after popu- 
larity. To a desire of this sort, on the part of His Majesty's 
ministers, do I attribute this most calamitous expedition, and all 
the disgrace and ruin which have attended it ; and I must say, 
that if the persons intrusted with the direction of the energies of 
the kingdom, continue to be actuated by this sentiment, it is not 
difficult to foresee, that the destruction of the country must be 
the inevitable consequence. 

To demonstrate the folly and impracticability of the plan (if 
plan it may be called) of this monstrous expedition, it will not be 
necessary to go into a very minute detail of the mass of evidence 
which has been laid upon the table. I shall content myself with 
selecting a few of the more prominent points. In making this 
selection, I shall have little difficulty ; the whole conduct of the 
expedition is so pregnant with ignorance and folly, and presents 
such a choice of blunders, that had it been divided amongst ten 
administrations, it would have been sufficient to condemn them 
all. The Noble Lord (Castlereagh), however, in defending the 
conduct of himself and his colleagues upon this melancholy occa- 
sion, has expressed himself with a degree of callous indifference, 
intermixed with pleasantry, which cannot but seem ill-adapted to 
his situation. For my own part, I could not hsten without indig- 
nation and horror to the arguments, so full of nothingness, and 
delivered with so much flippancy, by which that Noble Lord 
attempted to defend himself for having wantonly consigned thou- 
sands of his countrymen to an inglorious grave. His late Right 
Honourable Colleague (Mr. Canning) has certainly conducted 
himself with greater propriety. Some part, at least, of his usual 
presumption seems to have forsaken him ; and it unquestionably 
does now become His Majesty's ministers to be humble — their 
wings have been damped by the fogs of Walcheren — they are 
like wasps in rainy weather — we may examine them without fear 
of their stings. 

In discussing the conduct of this miserable expedition, this con- 
catenation of blunders, this long lane of mischiefs which has no 
turn, except to destruction, the first thing to be observed is, that, 
according to all their evidence, the planners of the expedition 
could have no hope of success, unless all the chances turned out 
20* 2E 



234 WALCHEREN EXPEDITION. 

in their favour, unless all their cards turned to be trumps. The 
wind must blow from a certain point, and it must blow with a 
certain degree of force; — if the wind changed, the expedition 
could not arrive at the destined point; — and if the wind blew 
fresh, it would produce a surf, and prevent the landing. Now, 
considering the proverbial certuhdy of the wind,, the expectation 
that all these things would happen must be admitted to have been 
extremely rational ; but, supposing that His Majesty's ministers 
could have had sufficient influence to induce the wind to blow ex- 
actly as they wished it, still to insure any thing like a prospect of 
success to the expedition, this mighty armament must, in all its 
subsequent operations, have moved with the regularity and pre- 
cision of a piece of machinery; one operation must be performed 
in three days, another in four, the artillery must move through 
the sand without friction, and there must be " no enemy to fight 
withal." What a pity it is that our sober ministers have not been 
in the habit of frequenting the gaming table; had they known 
how to calculate odds, they never would have sent out this expe- 
dition. But, Sir, the truth is, that this gallant army, this last hope 
of England, was committed to imminent hazards and ultimate 
destruction, without any thing like a plan for the guidance of its 
operations. The Noble Lord seems to have thought it quite suffi- 
cient to send out an expedition, and leave the rest to chance. 
My Lord Chatham was sent out to try experiments. I remember 
a story of a man, who, being asked if he could play on the fiddle, 
said, " he could not tell, but he would try." Such was precisely 
the situation of my Lord Holland (a loud laugh). I must beg 
His Lordship's pardon for having substituted his name for that of 
my Lord Chatham ; but His Lordship is always near my heart, 
and his name has involuntarily slipped from my tongue. 

What did the military opinions amount to? Precisely nothing; 
and how could it be otherwise, seeing that the officers had no 
data whereon to found their opinions ? Ministers, indeed, tell us 
that they had information from their spies, that there were so 
many men at Antwerp — so many at Lillo — and so many at Ber- 
gen-op-Zoom ; but it must be recollected that it is the interest of 



spies to smooth the difficulties that lie in the way of their employ- 
ers ; and, independently of this consideration, how is it possible 
for spies to form an estimate of the amount of the small detach- 
ments which are scattered all over the country? It must also be 
recollected, that a great part of the population of the country 
consists of men who have been accustomed to the use of arms ; 
ay. Sir, and who have seen fire too. The very sweepings of 
such a country would have been sufficient for the defence of 
Antwerp. But were ministers so very ignorant, as not to know 
that there are between twenty and thirty fortified towns, within a 



WALCHEREN EXPEDITION. 235 

few days' march of Antwerp, and that each of those towns has 
its garrison? Nay, it is now known, that troops were sent even 
from Paris to Antwerp, before our devoted army reached the 
point where its difficulties were to commence. Did ministers 
think that the troops of the enemy were immovable ? The insane 
calculations of these dreamers remind me of a countryman, who, 
in directing a traveller across the Downs, told him, that he must 
travel three or four miles, and when he came to a flock of sheep, 
he must turn to the right. But how if the sheep had changed their 
position before he got there? What would Gentlemen say of 
Buonaparte, if, on receiving intelligence from his spies that there 
were only seven or eight thousand troops in or near Portsmouth, 
he was to send an expedition of forty thousand men to take the 
place ? Would they not say that he was insane ? 

The Noble Lord, however, says, that it was intended to take 
Antwerp by a coup-de-main. What must the enemy, Sir, think 
of us, when they hear this stated ? With what contempt and ridi- 
cule must they not treat us, when they learn that the projector of 
this mighty expedition is acquainted with the terms of military 
science, without having the slightest idea of the meaning of those 
terms ? Good God, Sir, talk of coup-de-main with forty thousand 
men, and thirty-three sail of the line ! Gentlemen might as well 
talk of a coup-de-main in the Court of Chancery (loud and con- 
tinued laughter). I have no wish. Sir, to excite merriment upon 
this melancholy occasion, but the whole of the conduct of minis- 
ters is so pregnant with blunders, so full of ridicule, that it is im- 
possible barely to describe it without producing a laugh. 

But the Noble Lord has had the modesty to assert, that the 
expedition went on very well ; that Buonaparte did nothing for 
the defence of Antwerp ; that when our Commanders gave up the 
enterprise, there were only twenty-six thousand troops in and 
near Antwerp ; and of those troops, the Noble Lord has thought 
proper to speak in terms of the utmost contempt. What was there 
in the composition of those troops to induce the Noble Lord to 
treat them with ridicule 1 Were they volunteers, or were they 
local militia 1 This assertion of the Noble Lord, if it amounts to 
any thing, amounts to a censure of the officers entrusted with the 
command of the expedition. The Noble Lord and his colleagues 
evidently wish to have it inferred that the commanders of the ex- 
pedition have been to blame. Why, then, do they not plainly tell 
us so 1 They point their fingers at the commanders, but they dare 
not name them. It is fortunate for the country, however, that 
the commanders were not mad enough to attempt to proceed to 
Antwerp ; calamitous and disgraceful as the result of the expedi- 
tion has been, our ruin would, in that event, have been still more 
complete. If it be asked why Buonaparte did not send more 



236 WALCHEREN EXPEDITION, 

troops to Antwerp, the answer is evident ; his troops, though not 
under the walls of Antwerp, were in situations from whence they 
could be speedily sent either there or to any other point likely to 
be attacked by us. The troops then in the garrison were sufficient 
for present defence; and it, therefore, was not worth his while 
to send more troops, until he ascertained that our commanders 
were desperate enough to attempt the siege of the place. He well 
knew (though our ministers did not) what sort of an enemy our 
brave army had to contend with, in the pestilential marshes of 
Walcheren; and much would he rejoice, when he found that min- 
isters had been insane enough to send their armament to the 
Scheldt. When he first heard that such was the destination of 
our boasted expedition, with what a smile of satisfaction would 
he say to his ministers. 



• " there let them lie, 



" Till famine and the ague eat them up." 

Upon a consideration. Sir, of all the evidence laid upon your 
table, I feel myself bound solemnly to call upon this house for the 
condemnation of those ministers who have wantonly compromised 
the safety and honour of the country, by undertaking an expedi- 
tion in which success was absolutely impossible. I shall now, 
Sir, attempt to show, that even success would not have justified 
His Majesty's ministers in putting to hazard the last army of the 
country upon this expedition. The administration. Sir, with whom 
I had the honour to act, made it their uniform study to husband 
the resources of the country; regardless of popular clamour, 
they determined not to expend, in fruitless expeditions, that blood 
and that treasure, which, at no very distant period, may be re- 
quired in the defence of all that is dear to us. I am, however, 
ready to admit, that there may be occasions which call for a de- 
parture from the rules of ordinary prudence ; the Spanish Revo- 
lution was, in my opinion, one of those occasions ; and had I 
been in office when that event occurred, I, for one, would have 
concurred in the propriety of sending to the Peninsula the largest 
disposable force which the country could possibly spare. When 
I first heard that the expedition which was afterwards sent to the 
Scheldt was in contemplation, I did hope that it was destined to 
reinforce our gallant army then in Spain. I was at that time in 
the country, but, before the sailing of the expedition, I came to 
London, where I heard, from persons upon whose information I 
could rely, such an account of the state of the public mind, and of 
the events then passing in the north of Germany, as to induce me to 
form an opinion, that to send our disposable force there, would be 
preferable even to sending it to Spain. Schill, and many other en- 
terprising men, had embarked in a cause, in which their lives were 



WALCHEREN EXPEDITION. 237 

at stake, and had they been supported by a powerful British army, 
something might have been achieved to avert the sinking destinies 
of Europe. 

The hopes of the continent were turned towards His Majesty's 
ministers; but, alas ! how cruelly were those hopes disappointed ! 
Puffed up with the selfish expectation of obtaining a little moment- 
ary popularity, by the capture of a few ships, and the destruction 
of an arsenal, the King's ministers sent this mighty armament 
(which might possibly have decided the fate of Europe) upon a 
predatory expedition. How could the expedition to Antwerp pro- 
duce a diversion in favour of Austria? If ministers had realised 
the hope of taking Antwerp, what would our army have done 
next? Must they not instantly have turned their backs upon the 
enemy, and got on board their ships as fast as their legs could 
carry them ? Would they not otherwise have been exposed to inevi- 
table destruction 1 Well might Austria complain, and bitterly com- 
plain, of the selfishness and meanness of our conduct. 

But ministers say, that they were prevented from sending the 
expedition to the north of Germany by motives of humanity : their 
humane minds could not brook the idea of exciting an insurrec- 
tion among the Germans, lest the insurgents should afterwards be 
butchered by the French ; and this we are told by the very men 
whose tender mercies were exhibited in the attack upon Copenha- 
gen — that base and infamous expedition, by which the reputation 
of this country has received a stab, never to be effaced while the 
records of our history shall exist. But how does it happen, that 
the tender feelings of our ministers are reserved exclusively for 
the inhabitants of Germany I Why did not those feelings operate 
to prevent our own brave soldiers from being consigned to destruc- 
tion in a charnel-house like Walcheren ? Where were those feel- 
ings when ministers ordered to be exposed to all the horrors of a 
bombardment, the inhabitants of Flushing, whom we pretended to 
have come to deliver from the tyranny of the French 1 This af- 
fectation, this cant of humanity, is truly ridiculous. 

The ministers have brought evidence before the house, to prove 
that if the expedition had been sent upon a service which required 
protracted operations, they could not have found money to pay 
the troops — the expedition, therefore, could not be of any use as 
a diversion in favour of Austria, even if the fate of Austria had 
not been decided, as it actually was, before the expedition embark- 
ed. But ministers, it seems, were determined to send an expedi- 
tion somewhere ; the good folks of Margate and Ramsgate, and 
the rest of the watering-places, must have something to talk about 
— the Noble Lord (Castlereagh) must have a trip to the coast to 
see the raree-show of an embarkation ; and, tlierefore, must the 
best troops ot the country be sent to absolute destruction. 



238 WALCHEREN EXPEDITION. 

The Noble Lord, however, says, that we must not pass a cen- 
sure upon him and his colleagues, inasmuch as the expedition he 
planned has not been tried ; the ultimate objects of the expedition, 
he says, have not been attempted. Really, Sir, this is so WTetched 
a quibble, that I am inclined to suspect that it has originated with 
the nisi prius part of the administration. — The Walcheren Expe- 
dition not tried! Am I dreaming. Sir? are we really now discuss- 
ing the merits of a mighty expedition, which sailed to the Scheldt 
about eight months ago, and which returned about four months 
afterwards, defeated, disgraced, and almost annihilated ? I cry his 
Lordship mercy, but I really did suppose somehow or other that 
the Expedition to Walcheren had been tried. Does His Lordship 
mean to deny that the whole of the expedition, from the beginning 
to the end, was under the direction of His Majesty's government ? 
And is that government not liable to be called to account for its 
total failure ? 

I have now. Sir, only to observe, that if ministers are not ar- 
rested in their career of folly, by the censure of this house, the 
consequences to the country may be dreadful in the extreme — the 
responsibility of ministers will be an empty sound — the aspersions 
which have been thrown upon this house, by persons out of doors, 
will receive confirmation — and the confidence of the people, (I do 
not mean the people, in the technical sense of the word, but the 
sober and thinking part of the nation,) in their representatives, 
will be lost forever ! 



The Chancellor of the Exchequer replied to Mr. Windham, and Mr. R. Dun- 
das also defended the expedition, which was censured by Mr. Tierney and 
Mr. Brougham ; after which the house divided on the original Resolutions of 
Lord Porchester ; 

For Ministers . 275 

For the Resolutions 227 

Majority for Ministers 48 



A second division then took place on the first Resolution of General Craufurd, 
which was as an amendment to the original resolutions : 

Ayes 272 

Noes 232 

Majority for Ministers 40 



WALCHEREN EXPEDITION. 239 

A third division took place on the omission of the word " uor," which was 
moved by Mr. Canning : 

Ayes 275 

Noes 224 

Majority for ministers 51 

The fourth division was on the last Resolution of General Craufurd, decla- 
ratory of the approbation of the house in the retention of Walcheren, and 
consequently approving the conduct of Ministers in that respect ; 

Ayes 255 

Noes 232 

Majority for Ministers 23 



SELECT SPEECHES 



THE RIGHT HONOURABLE 

WILLIAM HUSKISSON 

TO WHICH IS PREFIXED, 

A BIOGRAPHICAL MEMOIR. 

21 2F 241 



BIOGRAPHICAL MEMOIR 



THE RIGHT HONOURABLE 



WILLIAM HUSKISSON 

243 



BIOGRAPHICAL MEMOIR 



THE RIGHT HONOURABLE 



WILLIAM HUSKISSON. 



William Huskisson was descended from a gentleman's family, 
of moderate fortune, which had been long settled in Staffordshire. 
His ancestors for several generations had resided upon their own 
property, pursuing no profession, and belonged to that class of 
small landed proprietors — a country gentleman, then so numerous, 
but which is now become nearly extinct. 

His father William was the second son of William Huskisson, 
Esquire, of Oxley, near Wolverhampton. He married Elizabeth, 
daughter of John Bellows, Esquire, of an ancient Stafibrdshire 
family. On his marriage with this lady, Mr. Huskisson hired the 
residence called Birch Moreton Court — then belonging to the 
Earl of Belmont — with an extensive farm attached to it, in the 
county of Worcester, where the subject of this memoir was born 
on the 11th of March, 1770. 

We may pass briefly and rapidly over the preliminary part of 
Mr. Huskisson's education. It is sufficient to say, that on his 
mother's death, being then about five years old, he was placed at 
an infant school, at Brewood, in Stafibrdshire ; more, as may well 
be understood, for the purpose of being taken care of than for 
that of instruction : that he was afterwards removed to Albrigh- 
ton, and lastly, to Appleby in Leicestershire ; where, young as 
he was, he gave evident promise of those talents by which, in 
after-life, he acquired for himself such a splendid reputation. It 
is singular that even then he evinced the peculiar aptitude for 
figures and calculations which subsequently enabled him in Par- 
liament to give to the most intricate numerical details a clearness 

21 # 245 



246 BIOGRAPHICAL MEMOIR OF 

unequalled in the financial expositions of other statesmen, and 
which (as it has been said) rendered his statements so intelligible 
as to make those of his auditors least conversant with such sub- 
jects believe at least that they understood his plans and compre- 
hended his reasoning. 

But whatever might have been the early genius exhibited by 
Mr, Huskisson, or however promising his talents and abilities at 
that period, the successful cultivation and developement of them 
were probably owing, in a great measure, to the watchful care 
which was afterwards bestowed upon his education by his ma- 
ternal great-uncle, Dr. Gem. 

Dr. Gem was a physician of considerable eminence in his day, 
and well known and highly esteemed ; not more for his profes- 
sional skill than for his other numerous scientific and literary 
attainments. When the Duke of Bedford was appointed ambas- 
sador to France, at the peace of 1763, Dr. Gem accompanied him 
as physician to the embassy. 

The brilliant society of men of letters in which he constantly 
mixed, and the facilities which Paris then presented for the pur- 
suit of different branches of science, proved so congenial to his 
nature, that he determined to fix his residence in that capital and 
its vicinity ; still, however, paying frequent visits to his friends in 
England, and to a small patrimonial estate which he possessed 
in Worcestershire. Towards his niece (Mrs. Huskisson) he 
always entertained a particular affection; and, after her death, 
continued to take great interest in her children. Their father 
having contracted a second marriage, Dr. Gem became anxious 
that the two elder of his nephews should be entrusted to his care. 
After some hesitation, his wishes were complied with ; and they 
were permitted to accompany their great-uncle on his return to 
Paris, in 1783. 

When this arrangement took place, Mr. Huskisson was in the 
fourteenth year of his age, and of a disposition calculated to de- 
rive the greatest advantages from the guidance and superin- 
tendence of a mind like that of Dr. Gem, who presided over his 
education with unremitting care and scrutinizing attention. Those 
who recollect having seen them together during the visit which 
the Doctor annually made with his young charges to England, 



THE RIGHT HONOURABLE WILLIAM HUSKISSON. 247 

describe him as exacting from the boys a strict and diligent ap- 
plication to their studies, and as indefatigable in his efforts to 
foster and expand the indications of genius, with which their 
minds were endowed by nature. 

The moment at which Dr. Gem first undertook the charge of 
Mr. Huskisson and his- brother, was one full of extraordinary 
political interest ; and of all places in the world, Paris was the 
one in which this interest would be likely to act the most power- 
fully upon a youthful and energetic imagination. 

On the generous nature of Mr. Huskisson, the stirring events 
of the times undoubtedly produced a powerful impression ; and 
every year naturally added to his enthusiasm for the success of a 
cause which enlisted in its favour all the best sympathies of hu- 
manity, and which was as yet unsullied by the horrible atrocities 
which marked its after-course with blood and crime : while the 
financial discussions, which followed in rapid succession as the 
difficulties of the times grew more complicated, seized upon the 
peculiar bent of his understanding, and gave him a turn for the 
study of political knowledge, which may be said to have decided 
his future destiny. 

Mr. Huskisson was present at the taking and destruction of the 
Bastile, in July, 1789. At this time, his zeal and enthusiasm for 
the cause of liberty had reached their zenith. In the course of 
the following year, he became a member of the Club of 1789, 
which had been then just established. In spite of the objections 
which were pointed out, the plan of issuing assignats was ad- 
hered to; and Mr. Huskisson then detached himself from all 
further connexion with the club. He delivered a speech against 
them, when the anglo-mania was at its height in Paris ; and the 
young Englishman soon found himself an object of general interest 
and admiration in all the most distinguished liberal circles of 
that metropolis. His discourse wa.s loudly extolled ; his talents 
became the theme of general conversation ; and his society was 
eagerly courted by people of the highest consideration and fashion 
of both sexes. 

To the favourable opinion of Dr. Warner, Mr. Huskisson was 
indebted for his first introduction to the present Marquis of 
Stafford ; then Lord Gower, the British Minister at Paris. Struck 



248 BIOGRAPHICAL MEMOIR OF 

with the pleasing manners and promising talents of his youthful 
countryman, Dr. Warner mentioned him to the ambassador — to 
whom Dr. Gem was well known, both personally and by reputa- 
tion—in terms of such high commendation, that an introduction 
took place, at the particular desire of Lord Gower; and this 
introduction was shortly followed up by an offer of becoming his 
private secretary. 

This offer Mr.Huskisson accepted, and took up his abode at the 
ambassador's hotel, some time in the year 1790. On the evening 
of that dreadful day, (August 10th), when slaughter had stayed its 
weary arm, and it became possible for a foreigner to venture forth 
into the streets of Paris, Mr. Huskisson wandered out to view the 
field of conflict, and to endeavour to obtain some more accurate 
information of the transactions which had taken place in the last 
twenty-four hours. The residence of the English ambassador 
was then at the Hotel de Monaco, in the Fauxbourg St. Germain ; 
where Mr. Huskisson inhabited a suite of rooms on one side of 
the gate similar to one on the other side, which had been the 
apartments of the Compte de Valentinois while the Princess de 
Monaco lived there. When Mr. Huskisson returned to his apart- 
ments, he found that during his absence. Monsieur de Champce- 
netz, the then governor of the Tuileries, had taken refuge there. 
It appeared that this nobleman had, when the palace was assault- 
ed and carried by the infuriated mob, either been thrown, or had 
jumped from one of the windows, and that he had fallen amongst 
some of the unfortunate Swiss, whose bodies lay in heaps around 
the palace which they had so gallantly attempted to defend. 
After remaining in this perilous situation for some hours, and 
happily eluding the murderous search of the wretches who were 
busily engaged in giving the finishing stroke to any of the victims 
who still breathed, M. de Champcenetz had, as the darkness of 
the evening closed upon this fatal day, contrived, with much dif- 
ficulty, to make his way unperceived to the hotel of the British 
ambassador, where, by passing himself for an Englishman, he 
had obtained access to the apartments of Mr. Huskisson, with 
whom he was slightly acquainted. Here Mr. Huskisson found 
him concealed. The situation was one of ^he utmost delicacy 
and of the greatest embarrassment, M. de Champcenetz threw 



THE RIGHT HONOURABLE WILLIAM HUSKISSON. 249 

himself upon his honour, and appealed to his generosity and hu- 
manity to protect him against the assassins. To drive him from 
his refuge was virtually to become his murderer, and to deliver 
him up to a fate even more cruel than that from which he had 
escaped. To allow him to remain was to incur the deepest re- 
sponsibility — to run the risk of compromising the ambassador, 
and consequently to hazard the danger of provoking a war be- 
tween France and England. It was as imperative to keep the 
knowledge that a person so closely attached to the royal family 
had taken shelter in the Hotel of the Embassy, from reaching 
Lord Gower, as it was to prevent the circumstance from being 
discovered by the blood-thirsty populace. In this dilemma, Mr. 
Huskisson at last bethought himself of placing his unlbrtunate 
guest under the protection of a laundress, on whose fidelity he 
knew he could confide. He contrived to have him secretly con- 
veyed to her dwelling, furnished him with money and whatever 
else he required, and, at the expiration of a week of mutual alarm 
and anxiety, had the happiness of ascertaining that he had quitted 
Paris in safety. This nobleman died a few years ago, having 
been restored to the government of the Tuileries by Louis XVIII. 
After the catastrophe of the 10th of August, and the deposition 
of Louis XVI. by the Convention, the British Government re- 
called its Minister. Mr. Huskisson accompanied Lord Gower 
and his family to England. On his return to England, he con- 
tinued to pass the greater part of his time in the family of Lord 
Gower, either at Wimbleton or in London, where he often met 
Mr. Pitt and Mr. Dundas. The Government, about this time, 
found that it was indispensable to make some arrangement for 
the creation of an office at which the claims and affairs of the 
numerous bodies of emigrants who now thronged to take refuge 
in England, might be heard and discussed. The subject was one 
day mentioned at a dinner at Lord Gower's, and Mr. Dundas 
expressed himself very desirous to find some person who, to good 
abilities and gentlemanly manners, should unite a perfect know- 
ledge of the French language. The fitness of Mr. Huskisson for 
such a situation was mentioned and admitted : it was tendered 
to him, and accepted. Dry and unimportant in their details, 
and oftentimes harsh and unthankful in their nature, as were 

2G 



250 BIOGRAPHICAL MEMOIR OF 

necessarily the duties which he had to perform in his new situa- 
tion, Mr. Huskisson never suffered himself to relax in his atten- 
tion. To remarkable acuteness and unwearied application, he 
united a singular facility in comprehending the views of others 
and clearness in explaining his own. Few persons were ever 
better qualified to judge of the talents and capacity of those em- 
ployed under them than Mr. Pitt and Mr. Dundas ; and they 
were not slow in discovering that in Mr. Huskisson were com- 
bined, in an eminent degree, all the requisites towards forming a 
valuable man of business, and a most efficient public servant. His 
conduct in his present office justified the opinion they had formed 
of his abilities, and shortly won their entire confidence ; whilst it 
laid the foundation of a friendship which endured unimpaired to 
the close of their lives. 

About this period, he became acquainted with Mr. Canning, 
who had been recently returned to Parliament, and who entered 
into public life under the avowed patronage of Mr. Pitt : and a 
friendship began, which remained unchanged and unvveakened 
through all the vicissitudes of their remaining years. 

The government soon discovered that the powers of Mr. Hus- 
kisson's mind were of a character far beyond the sphere in which 
they had hitherto been employed, and that they demanded a 
wider and more important range for their useful developement 
and application. Accordingly, when in the spring of 1795, Mr. 
Nepeau was appointed secretary to the Admiralty, an arrange- 
ment was made by which Mr. Huskisson succeeded his friend as 
under-secretary of State in the department of War and Colonies, 
the seals of which were then held by Mr. Dundas. 

From this period, Mr. Huskisson may be considered as having 
finally abandoned himself to the pursuit of politics ; and his history, 
to the close of his life, is more or less prominently connected with 
that of almost all great public measures. 

Living in habits of the strictest friendship and most confidential 
communication with Mr. Pitt, he was often called to the private 
councils of that great statesman; while from the many demands 
upon the time and attention of Mr. Dundas, the executive direc- 
tion of the War and Colonial Department devolved very much 
upon the under-secretary. 



THE RIGHT HONOURABLE WILLIAM HUSKISSON. 251 

The archives of that department would afford multiplied and 
important proofs of the talents and assiduity by which Mr. Hus- 
kisson justified the high opinion and flattering preference which 
had placed him there : but it may be sutHcicnt to mention, as a 
single instance, that the indefatigable exertions and consummate 
skill manifested by him in the arrangements and equipment of the 
expedition which, under the able conduct of Sir Charles (after- 
wards Lord) Grey, achieved such brilliant exploits in the West 
Indies, drew from that distinguished officer the warmest enco- 
miums ; and he is known ever after to have expressed himself 
in strong terms of admiration of Mr. Huskisson's services on that 
occasion. 

Towards the close of the year 1796, he was first brought into 
parliament for the borough of Morpeth, under the patronage of 
the late Lord Carlisle, who was much attached to him, and who, 
at that time, supported Mr. Pitt's Government. But, devoted to 
the laborious and daily increasing duties of his office, he did not 
allow either his vanity or his ambition to entice him from an un- 
divided attention to them, for the sake of a premature display on 
a stage where he was destined to gain, in after-times, such splen- 
did triumphs in the cause of liberal and enlightened poUcy. On 
the contrary, he appears, by a reference to the parliamentary de- 
bates of that period, to have spoken, for the first time, in Febru- 
ary, 1798, when he moved, — " that there be laid before the 
House copies of the correspondence between the Transport 
Board and the French Government, relative to Captain Sir Syd- 
ney Smyth, and in general relative to the exchange of prisoners 
between the two countries," — a motion which he introduced by a 
short speech, in confutation of the calumnies and misrepresenta- 
tions circulated in France on the treatment of French prisoners 
in England. 

There is nothing extant in the parliamentary history of Mr. 
Huskisson which would bear the character of what is usually 
termed a maiden speech. 

On the retirement of Mr. Pitt in 1801, Mr. Huskisson, as well 
as Mr. Canning, resigned his situation. At the request of Lord 
Hobart, however, who succeeded to the War and Colonial De- 
partment, seconded by the solicitations of Mr. Dundas, who was 



252 BIOGRAPHICAL MEMOIR OF 

particularly anxious that the following up of certain measures 
then in progress, should have the advantage of being con- 
ducted to a termination by a person w^ho had been acquainted 
with his views and intentions, he consented to exercise the func- 
tions of under-secretary for a short time, until Lord Hobart should 
have made himself conversant with the nature and management 
of his new office. In this arrangement, he acquiesced very re- 
luctantly, and on a distinct understanding that it should be con- 
sidered as merely temporary. On intelligence being received of 
the glorious battle of Alexandria, and of the unfortunate death of 
the gallant Sir Ralph Abercrombie, it became necessary for the 
government at home to select his successor ; and it has been 
supposed that some difference of opinion arose on this subject. 
However that may have been, Mr. Huskisson then claimed that 
the time for his retirement was arrived; and he accordingly with- 
drew into private life. 

In 1799, he married the youngest daughter of Admiral Mil- 
banke, an union in every respect most gi-atifying to his friends, 
and which proved to himself a source of unchequered and in- 
crea'sing happiness, till it was torn asunder by the dreadful 
catastrophe which has left her no other worldly consolation 
than the remembrance of the virtues which adorned him, and 
that which may be gathered from the universal sympathy of the 
world, which deplores and participates in her loss. 

There are some persons who are recorded never to have gone 
into action without being wounded. Mr. Huskisson seems to have 
laboured under a similar fatality in regard to accidents, from his 
earliest infancy to that fatal one which closed his career. 

As a child, he fractured his arm : a few days before his mar- 
riage, his horse fell with him, and he was severely hurt : soon 
after he was knocked down by the pole of a carriage, just at the 
entrance to the Horse Guards : in the autumn of 1801, being then 
in Scotland, at the Duke of Athol's, he missed his distance in 
attempting to leap the moat, and gave himself a most violent 
sprain of the ankle, accompanied with a considerable laceration 
of some of the tendons and ligaments of his foot ; and it was many 
weeks before he recovered sufficiently to leave Scotland. Indeed, 
the effects of this accident were visible in his gait during the 



THE RIGHT HONOURABLE WILLIAM HUSKISSON. 253 

remainder of his life. He afterwards fractured his arm by a fall 
from his horse at Petworth; and again in 1817, by his carriage 
being overturned. On this occasion, none of his surgeons could 
discover the precise nature of the mischief; but Sir Astley Cooper 
was of opinion that the bone was split from the fracture up to 
the joint. The recovery was slow, and his sufferings very se- 
vere; as all kinds of experiments were employed to. prevent the 
joint from stiffening. In spite of every exertion, he never re- 
covered the full use of his arm ; and a visible alteration in the 
spirit and elasticity of his carriage resulted from the injury. He 
was constantly encountering accidents of minor importance; and 
the frequency of them, joined to a frame enfeebled from the se- 
vere illnesses under which he suffered during his latter years, 
had given rise to a certain hesitation in his movements whenever 
any crowd or obstacle impeded him, which may, perhaps, in 
some degree, have led to that last misfortune which, to his friends 
and to the country, may be deemed irreparable. 

At the general election in 1802, he offered himself as a candi- 
date for Dov^er ; but, though supported by the good wishes and 
influence of his Lord Warden, he was defeated by Mr. Spencer 
Smyth, the government candidate, whose brother, Sir Sydney, 
got possession of the church (in which the election was then held) 
with his boat's crew, and effectually blockaded all approach to 
the voters in the opposite interest. After this defeat, he did not 
come into parliament till 1804. In the month of February, in 
that year, a vacancy occurred in the representation of Liskeard, 
Mr. Elliot, the sitting member, having succeeded to the peerage, 
on the death of his elder brother. Lord Elliot. Mr. Huskisson 
was induced to offer himself, and was opposed by Mr. Thomas 
Sheridan. Owing to some mismanagement in forwarding the 
writ, the contest proved more severe than had been anticipated, 
and a double return was made. A petition was presented by Mr. 
Huskisson, which had to pass through three committees before a 
final decision was obtained in his favour. During the interval, 
Mr. Addington had been driven from the helm by the united at- 
tacks of Mr. Pitt and Mr. Fox, and an attempt was made to give 
to the country a powerful and efficient ministry, which should 
embrace the friends of both those great statesmen. But difficul- 
22 



254 BIOGRAPHICAL MEMOIR OF 

ties arising which were deemed insurmountable, Mr. Pitt under- 
took to form an administration, excluding as well Mr. Fox and 
the Whigs as Lord Grenville and his adherents. Under this 
arrangement, Mr. Huskisson was appointed one of the secretaries 
of the Treasury. 

The second administration of Mr. Pitt was clouded abroad by 
the disastrous overthrow of the third coalition, whilst at home 
the impeachment of Lord Melville, and his own declining strength, 
cast a shade of weakness and discomfiture over his government, 
in strong and mortifying contrast with the days of his former 
power. The glories of Trafalgar indeed outshone the disgrace 
of Ulm, and cast a bright, but expiring halo round the last days 
of the statesman: but on his death, in January, 1806, the feeble 
remains of the cabinet gave way before the mere anticipation of 
the formidable phalanx opposed to them, and "all the talents" 
assumed the reins of government. 

Mr. Huskisson now became an active member of the opposi- 
tion, and showed himself a shrewd and vigilant observer of the 
proceedings of Ministers. His attention was particularly directed 
to their financial measures ; and in the month of July, he moved 
a string of resolutions relating to pubhc accounts, which were 
approved of and agreed to by the then Chancellor of the Ex- 
chequer, Lord Henry Petty. 

Parliament having been dissolved in the autumn of this year, 
Mr. Huskisson was again returned from Liskeard. 

On the formation of the Duke of Portland's Government in the 
April following, he resumed his situation as Secretary of the 
Treasury; and the new administration having deemed it advi- 
sable to appeal to the sense of the country, and to call a fresh 
parHament, he became member for Harwich, which place he 
continued to represent till the general election in 1812. In the 
long debates which took place respecting the charges brought 
against the Duke of York as Commander-in-Chief, he bore little 
or no share; but .when Colonel Wardie, a day or two before the 
close of the session of 1809, came forward whh a sweeping 
motion relative to public economy, Mr. Huskisson appears, for 
the first time, as a principal in an important general debate, and 
on a subject embracing the widest field for discussion. The deep 



THE RIGHT HONOURABLE WILLIAM HUSKISSON. 255 

attention with which his reply to Colonel Wardle was heard, 
demonstrated at once the intrinsic merits of the speech, and the 
high rank to which the speaker had won his way in the estima- 
tion of the House. On the retirement of Mr. Canning, Mr. Hus- 
kisson steadily resisted the earnest entreaties of Mr. Percival to 
continue in the government ; and rejecting, without a moment's 
hesitation, all the flattering offers which were made to him, fol- 
lowed the fortunes of his friend. In the session of 1810, Mr. 
Huskisson's parUamentary exertions were principally limited to 
some strong observations on the army estimates, in which he 
strenuously argued the necessity of economy, and of any practi- 
cable reduction; points which he again pressed on the consideration 
of government in the discussions which ensued on the budget. 
This conduct drew down some sharp comments from Mr. Whit- 
bread, who, after complimenting his abilities, and regretting the 
loss which the public had sustained by the manner in which " his 
place was then occupied rather than supplied," reproached him 
for the inconsistency of his present language with that which he 
had held while in office the preceding year — a reproach which 
Mr. Huskisson ably repelled, and which he would probably have 
altogether escaped, at least from that quarter, had he not, with 
Mr. Canning, declined to join in a general opposition to the 
measures of a government of which they had so recently formed 
a part. 

But the most important event, as relating to the fame and cha- 
racter of Mr. Huskisson, which occurred in the course of this 
year, was the appearance of his pamphlet on the Currency Sys- 
tem ; in which he displayed the most consummate knowledge of 
this complicated and much dissected subject, in all its various 
bearings — the soundest and most enlightened views, and the most 
prophetic insight into the dangers and difficulties which must 
ensue from a long and obstinate perseverance in the existing 
method of managing the financial resources of the country. This 
publication was eminently successful, and confirmed to him the 
reputation of being the first financier of the age. The apparent 
ease and rapidity with which this elaborate performance was 
composed, still live in the memory of some of those who hap- 
pened to be at Eartham when it was written, as well as the 



256 BIOGRAPHICAL MEIWOIR OF 

unaffected manner with which he would join the party in the 
morning, and submit to their remarks the successive sheets which 
he had prepared since they had separated on the preceding night. 
In the debates on Mr. Percival's Regency Bill, Mr. Huskisson 
adopted the same policy and the same line of conduct as that 
pursued by Mr. Canning, and contented himself with stating his 
opinions once in the course of the discussions. 

It was in the progress of this session, also, that the celebrated 
debate took place upon Mr. Horner's Resolutions on the Report 
of the Bullion Committee. Mr. Huskisson rose to reply to Mr. 
Vansittart, who had called upon him to answer " in what sense 
the term depreciation, as used by the Committee was to be un- 
derstood ;" an answer to which was returned, as Mr. Canning 
afterwards remarked, " in one sense, at least, to the complete 
satisfaction of him who had asked for it." Mr. Huskisson's speech 
was distinguished by the force and perspicuity of its arguments, 
and by the soundness of its principles ; and it was evident that 
he was dealing with a subject of which he was completely master. 
Upon the dissolution of parliament in the autumn of this year, he 
received an invitation from many of the most respectable inhab- 
itants of Chichester to succeed Mr. Thomas (who had signified 
his intention of retiring) as representative for that city, on what 
is there called the Blue or Independent interest. Nothing could 
be more gratifying than this invitation — nothing more flattering 
than the reception which he met with, both on his canvas and 
at the bastings, where he was returned without opposition. Par- 
liament assembled in November, when Mr. Huskisson once more 
exposed and controverted the notorious resolution of Mr. Van- 
sittart, declaring that a pound-note and a shilling were equivalent 
to a guinea ; which the latter pertinaciously maintained in the face 
of the flagrant proofs to the contrary which daily occurred. In 
the month of March following, he took a luminous and scruti- 
nizing view of the finances of the country, and of the resolutions 
proposed by the Chancellor of the Exchequer, and stated the na- 
ture of the alterations which he wished to see introduced. Foi 
this speech, he received the highest compliments from Mr. 
Baring, Mr. Henry Thornton, Mr. Tierney, and other members of 
the House, most conversant with the subject. It is full of those 



THE RIGHT HONOURABLE WILLIAM HUSKISSON. 257 

peculiar excellencies which mark all what (in order to avoid peri- 
phrasis) may be familiarly termed the professional speeches of 
Mr. Huskisson. 

When the question of the existing Corn Laws was brought 
under the notice of the House, in this- session, he distinguished 
himself in th6 debate which arose upon certain resolutions moved 
by Sir Henry Parnell ; and it was on this occasion, that he first 
proposed a scale of graduated prohibitory duties, which, in after- 
years, gave rise to so much discussion, when they had been ma- 
tured by the wisdom and experience of Lord Liverpool. 

It is worthy, too, of remark that, even at this period, Mr. Hus- 
kisson objected to the propositions of Sir Henry Parnell, " as pro- 
ceeding too much on the principle of giving the monopoly of the 
English market to the English corn-grower." 

In August, Mr. Huskisson succeeded Lord Glenbervie as Chief 
Commissioner of Woods and Forests, and was sworn of the Privy 
Council. 

Notwithstanding a partial clamour w^hich was raised about the 
Corn Laws, his re-election at Chichester met with no opposition; 
for a more intimate intercourse with his constituents had only 
increased the attachment and confidence which they felt towards 
him. The new office in which he was placed afforded him an 
opportunity of showing to the world the versatility of his talents, 
and the facility with which his comprehensive genius could apply 
itself, and descend to any subject. The improvement of the 
Crown Forests became the great object of his care. He ob- 
tained an accurate insight into the best methods of planting and 
managing them, and made himself conversant with the nature 
of the different soils — the particular description of trees to which 
they were best adapted — the various treatment which the plants 
demanded in different situations, and at different periods; and 
with the growth and quality of the timber. All this he did with 
a readiness and a discrimination which astonished, as much as 
it gratified the old and experienced officers of the different forests; 
whose duty it was to accompany him on his rounds during his 
annual visits of inspection to their respective stations. It is no 
exaggeration to say, that they may still be heard to dwell with 
admiration on the interest which he took, and the unusual know- 
22* 2H 



258 BIOGRAPHICAL MEMOIR OF 

ledge which he evinced, in the direction of this department ; and 
that they will even now speak with regret of the natural kindness 
and unaffected simplicity of his habits. 

In the course of 1815, the subject of the Corn Laws, which had 
been partially discussed, and then postponed in the preceding 
year, was brought forward by the government ; and long debates 
arose on the policy of making such alterations as might be ne- 
cessary to adapt them to the demands and exigencies of the pre- 
sent times. 

Although the question was one beset with difficulties, and 
which had the double disadvantage of exposing those who came 
to the arrangement of it with fair and moderate views, at once 
to the blind fury of the populace, and to the unforgiving jealousy 
of the landed interest, whose mutual disappointment in their 
equally unreasonable expectations found a single point of agree- 
ment in a cordial hatred of the supporters of a middle course ; 
and although he was not called upon, from his official situation, 
to draw down on himself this mass of unpopularity, Mr. Huskis- 
son nevertheless took a prominent part in these discussions. He 
seems, indeed, to have taken extraordinary pleasure in grappling 
with subjects of this arduous and complicated kind, and to have 
found in them something congenial to his nature. Diffident of 
his own powers, and free from anything like a feeling of rivalry 
or jealousy, he should seem to have systematically relinquished 
all topics, whether foreign or domestic, which demanded or 
allowed the use or display of the more dazzling graces of pubhc 
speaking, to the splendid eloquence of Mr. Canning. It is certain, 
at least, that during the life of that great man, he seldom if ever 
mixed in the discussions on foreign policy, however tempting the 
occasion ; and that, although invariably favourable to the aboli- 
tion of the slave trade, and to the claims of the Roman Catholics, 
he generally limited his support of them, with the exception of 
a speech in favour of the latter, in 1825, to a silent vote. The 
Corn Laws were not the only difficult question of domestic 
policy which occupied the attention of government in 1815 
and 1816. The Bank Restriction, which had been continued 
until July in the latter year, was brought under the consideration 
of parliament in the month of May, when Mr. Horner moved 



THE RIGHT HONOURABLE WILLIAM HUSKISSON. 259 

" that a Select Committee should be appointed for inquiring into 
the expediency of restoring the Cash Payments of the Bank of 
England, and the safest and most advantageous means of effect- 
ing such restoration." In the debate which ensued, Mr. Huskisson 
declared, that he still retained the opinions which he had formerly 
expressed when the Bullion Committee had terminated its labours. 
No inquiry, he said, was necessary on the first point embraced 
by the motion. All agreed that there was no security for pro- 
perty, no stability in public credit, no confidence in trade, no 
mode of adjusting the rights, and consulting the interests of all 
classes of society, without a circulation rendered steady by pos- 
sessing a permanent and universal value ; but he thought that the 
task of restoring the precious metals should be left to the discre- 
tion of the Bank, with a declaration that parliament expected the 
resumption of Cash Payments should not be delayed beyond two 
years : and a clause declaratory of such an expectation was ac- 
cordingly adopted. The truth appears to have been, that in the 
interval since the former discussions on this subject, the Bank 
had not only neglected preparations for resuming their payments 
in cash, but had actually extended their issues ; so that the go- 
vernment found itself compelled to prolong the restriction till 
July, 1818.' Mr. Huskisson took every opportunity of expressing 
the satisfaction with which he looked forward to the arrival of 
the period fixed for the resumption of cash payments, and his 
sanguine hope that it would not be delayed beyond the time con- 
templated by parliament. His penetration, however, was at no 
loss to discover, and his candour did not allow him to disguise, 
that the interval which must elapse between the withdrawing or 
absorbing o^ a large portion of the excessive circulation of the 
country, and the return to another state of currency, must be a 
time of severe pressure, not only in Great Britain, but all over 
Europe. 

To this period, when the state of the currency and the coun- 
try banks was to be placed on a more secure footing, he again 
alluded, when arguing in favour of the set of Finance Resolutions 
moved by Mr. Charles Grant, and carried in opposition to those 
of Mr. Tierney, at the close of the session of 1817; and he ex- 
pressed his earnest hope that every thing would be done to pre- 



260 BIOGRAPHICAL MEMOIR OF 

pare the country for the reception of more liberal commercial 
arrangements, in order to afford some counterpoise to the pres- 
sure which he foresaw impending, and to disarm the jealousy of 
foreign countries. 

In the debate which followed Lord Althorp's attempt in 1818, 
for a repeal of the Leather Tax, which was defeated by a very 
small majority, we find Mr. Huskisson opposing the bill, and 
enforcing his opposition on the ground, that no tax could be re- 
pealed with full benefit to the public except direct taxes, and that 
if any reduction could possibly be made, these ought to be the 
first to attract consideration. 

When, in this year, Mr. Tierney moved a resolution involving 
the much agitated question of an immediate resumption of cash 
payments, Mr. Huskisson successfully advocated a further de- 
lay. He showed that such a measure was then incompatible with 
the existing state of affairs, and that the House could do nothing 
more than declare the time for resuming such payments, leaving 
the care of providing the necessary means to the Bank itself. 

But while he maintained that the present was not the season 
for removing the restriction, he avowed that a difference existed 
between him and the Chancellor of the Exchequer on certain 
points. This led him to defend and eulogize the Report made 
by the Bullion Committee, which he characterized as containing 
a perspicuous statement of facts and well-connected inferences 
still unanswered; and he expressed his regret that the distin- 
guished individual who had prepared it (Mr. Horner) was not 
living, to assist the present deliberations with the force of his 
reasoning, and the accuracy of his judgment. In the autumn of 
this year, parliament was dissolved, and Mr. Huskisson re-elected 
for Chichester without any opposition. 

On the appointment of the Finance Committee, at the com- 
mencement of the session of 1819, Mr. Huskisson's abilities, and 
his knowledge of all the intricacies of the subject, were too con- 
spicuous not to ensure his name being included in the list ; and 
it has been supposed, that the influence which his great talents 
and intimate acquaintance with finance secured to him, proved 
of the utmost importance to Ministers in surmounting the difficul- 
ties which opposed them. 



THE RIGHT HONOURABLE WILLIAM HUSKISSON. 261 

The masterly exposition which he made when the Chancellor 
of the Exchequer (the present Lord Bexley) brought forward his 
string of resolutions relating to public income and expenditure, as 
founded upon the report of that committee, probably saved the 
government upon that occasion : or, should this be thought too 
bold an assertion, certainly contributed very essentially to miti- 
gate the opposition which they encountered. It has been said, 
that Mr. Huskisson gave a financial view of each European 
exchequer, and detailed the various measures then 'in progress 
among the different continental states, with an ease and fidelity 
■which excited general surprise and admiration. 

Without disguising the difficulties of the case, or attempting 
to mystify or delude the country with vague calculations, he drew 
from those very embarrassments fresh arguments for that econo- 
my and exertion which alone could ultimately enable the nation to 
weather them. The death of George the Third having rendered 
it necessary to summon a new parliament, Mr. Huskisson was 
again returned for Chichester, with the same marks of attach- 
ment and approbation which had been bestowed upon him on 
the three preceding occasions. In the course of this year, agri- 
cultural distress again occupied much of the attention of the 
House ; and a committee was appointed, on the motion of Mr. 
Holme Summer, to consider the various petitions connected with 
this subject : but an instruction was afterwards moved and car- 
ried by Mr. Robinson, confining the inquiry to the mode of ascer- 
taining, returning, and calculating the average prices of corn in 
the twelve maritime districts, under the provisions of the existing 
Corn Laws, and to any frauds which might be committed in 
violation of any of the provisions of the said laws ; which re- 
striction, of course, rendered the labours of this committee of 
comparatively little importance. In the following year, Minis- 
ters having withdrawn their opposition to such a measure, a 
committee was appointed, on the motion of Mr. Gooch, for a 
more extended inquiry. 

Of this committee, Mr. Huskisson was the most active minis- 
terial member; and the long and elaborate report which was the 
result of their labours, has been understood to have emanated 
principally from him. It has been often supposed, too, that in 



282 BIOGRAPHICAL MEMOIR OF 

the prominent part which he took in this committee, and in the 
steadiness with which he urged or defended a more liberal sys- 
tem in respect to the Corn Laws, may be discovered the explana- 
tion of that mingled feeling of suspicion and fear with which that 
party which denominates itself the Landed Interest, subsequently 
appears to have watched all his measures. When towards the 
end of this year, Mr. Canning, from circumstances and con- 
siderations wholly distinct from general policy, and indeed, purely 
personal, retired from the administration, Mr. Huskisson did not 
follow his example ; not from any attachment to his own office, 
but because he saw that to resign at that moment, would have 
been to act most unfairly by Mr. Canning, in giving to his retire- 
ment a character which did not belong to it, and might prove 
embarrassing to the government. Although not a member of 
the Cabinet, and consequently, not involved in whatever responsi- 
bility attached to the proceedings of the Ministers against the 
Queen, Mr. Huskisson did not fear to incur his share of the un- 
popularity which those proceedings had entailed upon them, nor 
did he shrink from their defence when, early in the session of 
1821, Lord Tavistock moved a resolution strongly condemnatory 
of their conduct : he however declared, that he had deprecated 
the inquiry from the outset; feeling that the result of it must 
be to lower the tone of moral and religious feeling in the coun- 
try; but that to assent now to the motion of the noble Lord, 
would be to declare that, in the eyes of the Commoners of 
England, her Majesty had been, if not praise-worthy, at least 
blameless. 

Upon this occasion, he prefaced his speech by stating his 
reasons for breaking through the practice which he had observed 
during a long parliamentary life, of declining questions of this 
general nature, and commented largely upon this difficult and 
delicate subject. In the progress of the session, the govern- 
ment encountered much opposition, and was exposed to several 
severe shocks from the united attacks of the old Whig party, 
strengthened by the Country interest. Several proposals were 
^ made to repeal various taxes which pressed heavily upon the 
country and the House ; and Window Duties were the first se- 
lected. Their repeal was resisted by the government : but Mr. 



THE RIGHT HONOURABLE WILLIAM HUSKISSON. 263 

Huskisson, while he argued against it, admitted, in pointed 
terms, the propriety of further economy in preparing the esti- 
mates, if it could be shown where further economy was practi- 
cable. Notwithstanding this conciliatory admission, and in spite 
of all the efforts of government, the resolution was lost, only by 
a majority of 26. Another and more successful attack was then 
made, and Ministers were outvoted in an endeavour to continue 
the additional duties upon malt — a defeat which they retaliated a 
few nights after, when they succeeded in throwing out the bill 
for their repeal by a large majority. But in June, they were 
once more in a minority respecting the duties on horses employed 
in husbandry ; which was repealed by a bill brought in by Mr. 
Curwen. On all these occasions, Mr. Huskisson spoke forcibly 
against these proposals ; and, as they were considered to be 
more especially calculated for the relief of the Agricultural in- 
terest, and were introduced and advocated by those who regard- 
ed themselves as more peculiarly the representatives of that body, 
this active opposition, perhaps, may be thought to have con- 
tributed to indispose that powerful party still further towards the 
principles and policy of Mr. Huskisson. The debates on the 
distress which pressed heavily upon the Agricultural interest, and 
which, in its consequences, affected the whole country, were re- 
newed shortly after the re-assembling of parliament, in February, 
1822, when Lord Londonderry moved the revival of the com- 
mittee of the preceding year, and gave notice that the Chan- 
cellor of the Exchequer would, without loss of time, bring forward 
a proposal for enabling the Bank to issue five millions of Ex- 
chequer Bills, in loans to different parishes, and also a reduction 
of the Malt Tax. 

In the debate which follow^ed upon the notice of the noble 
Marquis, Mr. Huskisson's speech must be deemed one of the most 
important ; embracing, as it does, a variety of those topics with, 
which he was, perhaps, more conversant than any other states- 
man of his time. In consequence of what passed on this occa- 
sion, and subsequently on the motion for the appointment of the 
committee, it became necessary for him to explain the part which 
he had taken in preparing the Agricultural Report of the pre- 
ceding year. Having done so, and vindicated himself from the 



264 BIOGRAPHICAL MEMOIR OF 

charge of having mystified the members of that committee, he 
signified his intention to abstain from all attendance at the present 
one ; in which determination Lord Londonderry declared that he 
regarded him as perfectly justified. On the 1st of April, the new 
committee made their report ; and on the 29th, Lord London- 
derry proposed a string of resolutions declaratory of the views 
which he, as the leading minister of the Crown in the House of 
Commons, entertained for the purposes of relief. 

These having been read, Mr. Ricardo brought forward another 
set ; and, late in the debate, Mr. Huskisson laid before the House 
those which he had prepared on the same subject; giving notice, 
at the same time, that it was his intention, on the next discussion, 
to state the cause of the difference which would appear between 
his resolutions and those of the noble Marquis. On the 6th of 
May, Lord Londonderry moved his first and most important 
resolution : it was combated by Mr. Huskisson ; and, after a 
short debate, withdrawn. He now felt that, having as an official 
servant of the Crown opposed, and successfully opposed, a propo- 
sition brought forward by the leading member of government in 
the House of Commons, it was due to the chief of that govern- 
ment to place his office at his disposal. 

Accordingly, he waited upon Lord Liverpool ; and, after ex- 
plaining to him what had passed, did that which he afterwards, 
in 1828, repeated in respect to the Duke of Wellington — namely, 
placed in his hands the decision whether the penalty of such an 
act of insubordination was to be enforced against him. 

The result, as all the world knows, was as different as the 
other circumstances of the case were similar; except, indeed, 
that Mr. Huskisson's conduct, in 1822, was marked with a cha- 
racter of official independence, or rather mutiny, infinitely strong- 
er than anything which arose on the case of the East Retford 
Disfranchisement Bill. Connected with this topic of agricultural 
distress, was the motion brought forward by Mr. Western in the 
month of June, for a committee to consider of the effects which 
had been produced by the act for the resumption of cash pay- 
ments. 

Mr. Huskisson undertook to reply to Mr. Western; and, after 
a speech of singular power and effect — a speech which may be 



THE RIGHT HONOURABLE WILLIAM HUSKISSON. 265 

ranked among those of the first class for soundness of political 
principle and conclusive reasoning — moved, as an amendment, 
the substitution of the famous resolution of 1690: — "thatthis 
House will not alter the standard of gold or silver in fineness, 
weight, or denomination ;" — an amendment which was carried 
by an overwhelming majority. The death of Lord Londonderry, 
in the summer of 1822, and Mr. Canning's succession to his 
office, though they caused no immediate alteration in Mr. Hus- 
kisson's official appointments, could not but give a great addi- 
tional weight to the influence which he before possessed. Nego- 
tiations, indeed, were shortly after set on foot for a partial 
change in the administration; and, at the end of January, 1823, 
Mr. Vansittart was raised to the peerage, and became Chancellor 
of the Duchy of Lancaster. Mr. Robinson succeeded him at the 
Exchequer; and Mr. Huskisson was appointed President of the 
Board of Trade and Treasurer of the Navy. As the ofler had 
been at first unaccompanied with a seat in the Cabinet (which 
had been attached to these offices while held by Mr. Robinson) 
some demur arose on the part of Mr. Huskisson, which was only 
overcome by an assurance that the sole obstacle to his immediate 
admission was not any objection to him individually, but the ex- 
treme inconvenience to public business, resulting from too great 
an extension of the Cabinet ; and by a positive promise that the 
earliest possible opportunity should be seized to make an opening 
for him. On this assurance, he agreed to waive, or rather to 
suspend, his objection ; and early in the following autumn, a 
vacancy was made in the Cabinet, to which he was immediately 
called. This difficulty having been surmounted, another arose, of 
a nature particularly delicate and distressing to Mr. Huskisson — 
the representation of Liverpool. Mr. Canning found that the la- 
borious duties which devolved upon him as one of the members 
for that important place, superadded to the direction of the 
Foreign Office and to the lead of the House of Commons, were 
more than he could adequately discharge ; and it was his earnest 
wish to retire from the representation. 

The government felt a strong and natural anxiety that the 
second great commercial port of the empire should continue to 
be represented by one of their friends ; and Mr. Huskisson was 
23 21 



266 BIOGRAPHICAL MEMOIR OF 

supposed to be the only person likely to unite the suffrages of all 
parties. It is not to be wondered at, therefore, that Lord Liver- 
pool and Mr. Canning should have made a point of his acquiescing 
in the only arrangement which seemed likely to give general 
satisfaction. As soon as it was understood that Mr. Huskisson 
had resolved to retire from Chichester, a requisition was forward- 
ed to him from Liverpool, bearing upwards of a thousand signa- 
tures. The election commenced on the 14th of February, and 
finished on the following day, after a mock contest, in which 
Lord Molyneux, who declined appearing, polled twenty-three 
votes, and Dr. Crompton not one. Some preliminary steps had 
been already taken by Mr. Robinson and Mr. Wallace for relax- 
ing the restrictions which had formerly embarrassed trade, and 
several new laws affecting it had been proposed by the govern- 
ment in the session of 1822. On Mr. Huskisson's appointment, 
he immediately proceeded firmly, but cautiously, to take steps 
towards further and more important alterations. In these, he 
found himself opposed and thwarted by the prejudices of an 
active and powerful party, who viewed all innovations with a 
jealous and unfriendly eye ; and the fate of the first bill for regu- 
lating the Silk Manufacture, was an evident proof of the obsta- 
cles which he would have to encounter before his measures could 
be crowned with success. This bill, after it had passed the 
lower House, was returned from the Lords, so changed and mu- 
tilated, that Mr. Huskisson preferred abandoning it for the session, 
rather than to adopt the amendments. In the following year, 
he was more successful ; and the bill passed into a law without 
encountering any very formidable opposition. In the course of 
this session, Mr. Huskisson introduced other measures connected 
with the trade and manufactures of the country : — the Merchant 
Vessels' Apprenticeship Bill, and that for removing the various 
vexatious regulations with which the manufacture of Scotch 
Linen had hitherto been shackled, and its prosperity impeded. 
He also brought forward the Registry Bill, which had been pre- 
pared in the preceding year, but which he had found still lying 
at the Board of Trade, when he succeeded to that office. 

This bill was a consolidation of all the existing laws on the 
subject, with many improvements ; and had been much called for 



THE RIGHT HONOURABLE WILLIAM HUSKISSON. 267 

by every one connected with the Shipping interests of the coun- 
try. It was a subject very compUcated in its details, and difficult 
to understand : but Mr. Huskisson felt its importance, and lost no 
time in making himself master of, and bringing it before parlia- 
ment ; and, after some protracted delays in the House of Lords, 
which drew from him a firm, but temperate remonstrance, these 
bills ultimately passed before the close of the session. 

In 1825, another most important undertaking was completed, 
— the general revision of the Revenue Laws. This was a task 
of great magnitude and extraordinary labour; and one which, as 
Mr. Huskisson frequently declared, could never have been achiev- 
ed but for the able assistance and unwearied diligence of Mr. 
James Dearon Hume, then of the Customs, and now of the Board 
of Trade. 

In this year, Mr. Huskisson spoke, for the first time, at any 
length, in favour of the Roman Catholic Relief Bill. Could he 
then have anticipated the fate of that question a few years later, 
how well and pointedly might he have remarked, as he had done 
in reference to the Commercial concessions which had been, at 
different intervals, granted to Ireland, that if parliament rejected 
the bill before them, the time would come when state necessity, 
acting under a sense of political danger, must yield, without 
grace, that which good sense and good feeling had before re- 
commended in vain. It is surely impossible for language to 
pourtray more faithfully the ultimate settlement of the Catholic 
question. 

It was in June, in this year, that on the third reading of the 
Bill of Principal and Factor, (a measure for defending and 
amending which had been carried by him through the House of 
Commons, in the preceding year, but had failed in the Lords), 
Mr. Huskisson particularly distinguished himself in a speech of 
which, unfortunately, not an outline exists. The House had 
been occupied all night with the case of Mr. Kenrick and Confor, 
the butcher; and the debate on the Law of Merchant and 
Factor did not come on till very late. Mr. Scarlett made a 
long and learned speech against the measure. His arguments 
were combated by Mr. Huskisson, who, in a speech of an hour 
and a half, gave his entire view of the commercial poUty of Great 



268 BIOGRAPHICAL MEMOIR OF 

Britain, as the natural depot of the merchandise passing between 
the new and the old world, and urged the necessity of affording 
all possible security to advances on goods ware-housed, in order 
to nnake it so. 

There are nnany and great authorities now living, who pro- 
nounced that he did this in a way in which nobody else could 
have done it. Owing, however, to the lateness of the hour at 
which he rose, this elaborate speech was dispatched by the re- 
porters in a few lines; while an admirable one, delivered by 
Mr. Baring, on the same subject, was left wholly unreported. 

Besides the other weighty and laborious questions which occu- 
pied Mr. Huskisson, both in his official and parliamentary 
character, in 1825 and 1826, must be enumerated the compli- 
cated and delicate discussions with Mr. Rush, — afterwards con- 
tinued wnth Mr. Gallatin, on the various points in dispute between 
Great Britain and the United States of America: — comprising 
the adjustment of the North-Western Boundary and that of the 
Province of New Brunswick — the navigation of the river St. 
Lawrence — the more effectual suppression of the African Slave 
Trade, and the intercourse with the West India Colonies. In 
the negotiations with the American Ministers, Mr. Huskisson was 
at first assisted by Mr. Stratford Canning, and subsequently, by 
Mr. Addington. The protocols of those conferences were by 
them drawn up, and then submitted to Mr. Canning for his final 
revision and sanction. 

Superior to the pressure of the times, and disdaining to attri- 
bute it to false causes, the Merchants of Liverpool, with that 
spirit of liberality, which so nobly characterizes them, came 
forward to testify their sense of the advantages which had been 
derived from the alterations already carried into effect, and to 
mark their approbation of those yet in progress : and, early in 
1826, Mr. Huskisson received the following letter, which is too 
honourable to him, in his public capacity, and to those from whom 
it proceeded, not to demand an insertion here. It is scarcely 
necessary to add, that the Service of Plate to which it alludes, 
was worthy of the greatness of Liverpool, both in taste and mag- 
nificence : — 



THE RIGHT HONOURABLE WH^LIAM HUSKISSON. 269 

Liverpool, 4th February, 1826. 
My dear Sir, 
As chairman of the Committee, I have now the honour to request your 
aceptance of the Service of Plate presented to you by this great commer- 
cial town. The motives which led to this proof of public feeling, are set 
forth in the following inscription, and are also engraved on the centre orna- 
ment of the service, viz : — 

THE SERVICE OF PLATE, 
OF WHICH THIS CANDELABRA IS A PART, 

WAS PRESENTED TO 

THE RIGHT HONOURABLE WILLIAM HUSKISSON, 

BY A NUMEROUS BODY OF THE 

MERCHANTS, FREEMEN, AND INHABITANTS 
OF LIVERPOOL ; 

AS A TESTIMONY 

OF THEIR SENSE OF THE BENEFITS 

DERIVED TO THE NATION AT LARGE 

FROM 

THE ENLIGHTENED SYSTEM OF COMMERCIAL POLICY, 

BROUGHT FORWARD BY HIM, 

AS PRESIDENT OF THE BOARD OF TRADE : 

AND OF THEIR GRATITUDE 

FOR THE ZEAL AND ABILITY, WITH WHICH, 

AS MEMBER FOR LIVERPOOL, 

HE HAS WATCHED OVER THE INTERESTS OF 

HIS CONSTITUENTS. 
1825. 

Notwithstanding the embarrassment and distress which generally prevail 
in trade and manufacture, I am desired by the Committee to assure you, that 
their conviction of the wisdom of the measures introduced by you for the 
removal of Commercial Restrictions remains undiminished ; and that they 
confidently anticipate, from their matured operation, the most beneficial 
effects to the country at large. It is very gratifying to me to have been se- 
lected, by my liberal fellow-townsmen, as their organ on this occasion ; and 
I have only to add, that I have the honour to be, &c. &c. 

John Bolton. 

To this, Mr. Huskisson made a suitable reply. 

Parliament met on the 2d of February, 1826, and the recent em- 
barrassments and distress became the subject of immediate debate. 

In the various discussions which ensued upon the Bank Charter 
and Promissory Notes Acts, Mr. Huskisson, as might be expect- 
ed, took a prominent part ; and, in answer to the abuse which 
23* 



270 BIOGRAPHICAL MEMOIR OF 

was now scattered with no unsparing hand against the measures 
of which he was considered the great champion and adviser, re- 
ferred, for the solution of the calamitous state of domestic affairs, 
to the ineffectual warnings which he had given in the preceding 
year, while he challenged the most searching inquiry into the 
share which it was asserted the changes in the restrictive sys- 
tem had had in producing the convulsion which terminated in the 
ruin of so many. It was not long before he had an opportunity 
of defending himself upon one of his own measures. On the 24th 
of February, the Silk Question was selected as the object of 
attack, and Mr. EUice moved for a committee to consider of the 
petition, from persons connected with that trade. The speech 
he delivered on that occasion, drew forth the following note from 
Mr. Canning : 

F. O. 24th February, 1826. 2, A. M. 

My dear Mrs. Huskisson, 
Having written to the king, I cannot reconcile it to my sense of duty to 
go to bed without writing to you, to congratulate you on Huskisson's exhibi- 
tion of to-night. I do assure you, without the smallest compliment or exag- 
geration, that he has made one of the very best speeches that I ever heard 
in the House of Commons — a speech decisive, forever, of his character and 
reputation as a statesman and an orator. It was of the very first rate ; and 
as such, I wish you joy of it with all my heart. 

Most sincerely yours, 

George Canning. 

The advocates of the new system never enjoyed a more glo- 
rious triumph than on this night. Never was there a more 
powerful or more unanswerable defence of that system than may 
be found in the reply made by Mr. Huskisson to the speeches of 
Mr. EUice and Mr. Williams. Never was a more generous or 
more statesman-like support afforded to a colleague than the 
magnificent display of eloquence with which Mr. Canning eulo- 
gized his friend, and overwhelmed his persecutors. The disad- 
vantages of the existing Corn Laws had become so apparent, and 
a fresh revision of them had been so strongly pressed upon 
government, in the last session of parliament, that Mr. Huskisson 
had been induced to give an implied promise to bring the whole 
subject under the consideration of the House, in the course of the 



THE RIGHT HONOURABLE WILLIAM HUSKISSON. 271 

session of 1826. At the time when this engagement was supposed 
to have been incurred, it was understood that a dissolution would 
take place in the course of the following autumn. Contrary to 
expectation, this dissolution did not take place ; and Mr. Huskisson 
naturally relinquished his intention. Indeed, Ministers announced, 
on the very first day of the session, their determination not to pro- 
pose any change in the existing laws, during the present year, as 
they were unwilling to bring forward so important a subject in the 
then agitated condition of the country ; and were still more in- 
disposed to submit a question of such extreme intricacy and deli- 
cacy to be discussed by an expiring parliament, where it was 
impossible to hope it could be examined with that calm and un- 
prejudiced consideration which it so peculiarly claimed. The 
subject being thus declined by government, was introduced by 
Mr. Whitmore, in a formal motion, " for a Committee, to inquire 
into the state of the Corn Laws ;" and several times afterwards 
became matter of discussion. On all these occasions, though ad- 
vocating the necessity of delay, Mr. Huskisson did not disguise 
his opinion, that the system hitherto pursued was an erroneous 
one — that the change which, during two years of peace, had been 
operating both internally and externally, required a corresponding 
change in legislation on this subject, or his hopes that he might 
see a free trade in corn established under proper and due protec- 
tion. The business was ultimately postponed to the following 
year, with a full understanding that Ministers should be then pre- 
pared to bring forward a new-modelHng of these laws on their 
own responsibility. 

Parliamentary history presents scarce a parallel to the effect 
which Mr. Huskisson was accustomed to produce, when he 
brought forward or vindicated those great plans of Commercial 
Reform, which mainly depended upon him. He may be said, 
indeed, to have formed a new era in parliamentary speaking, and 
to have raised his department to a consequence before unknown. 
Subjects which, from whatever cause, had hitherto failed in at- 
tracting that general attention which their importance might have 
justly demanded, were now listened to with the deepest interest ; 
and his speeches, minute and unadorned as they were, on the 



272 BIOGRAPHICAL MEMOIR OF 

unpromising topics of Silk and Shipping, raised an adnairation and 
interest equal to those which attended the naost eloquent exposi- 
tions of his colleagues on Foreign Policy, or the Financial State- 
ments which, year after year, announced to the public successiv^e 
reductions of taxation. 

Nor was the effect produced by these speeches confined to this 
country alone. They were translated into French, at Paris ; and 
he received from France, Germany, and the United States of 
America, frequent cozigratulations on his convincing justification 
of the new system, and warm encouragement to pursue a course 
which, in its consequences, tended to the general advantage, not 
only of his countrymen, but of the whole civilized world. 

The parliament was dissolved in June, 1826; and Mr. Hus- 
kisson was re-elected for Liverpool, after a miserable effort to 
raise an opposition, under the pretext that the liberal policy of 
the government in respect to the relaxation of the Commercial 
System, had injured the native manufactures and trade of the 
country. No candidate could however be found, and the attempt 
fell to the ground. 

The close attention with which Mr. Huskisson had applied himself 
to public business during the last two years, and the deep anxiety 
which he naturally felt for the accomplishment and success of his 
new measures, had visibly shaken a constitution already im- 
paired by the excitement he had undergone in the winter of 1822. 
His spirits, too, had certainly suffered ; for, however philosophi- 
cally he outwardly bore himself against the calumnies with 
which he was assailed, those who saw and watched him, in his 
hours of retirement, could perceive that the shaft had been shot 
not altogether in vain, and that his generous nature sometimes 
sank under the reiterated attacks of his persecutors ; who pur- 
sued him, as Mr. Canning expressed it, " in the same doctrine and 
spirit which embittered the life of Turgot, and consigned Galileo 
to the dungeons of the Inquisition." 

The year 1827, so fruitful in melancholy occurrences, was 
ushered in by the death of the Duke of York. Mr. Huskisson, 
who had before been slightly indisposed, suffered much from the 
severity of the cold during his attendance at the funeral. He 
there laid the foundation of that complaint in the throat, from the 



THE RIGHT HONOURABLE WILLIAM HUSKISSON. 273 

effects of which he never wholly recovered. He returned to 
Eartham on the 21st of January ; and on the 24th, Mr. Canning 
arrived there from Bath, where he had been to visit Lord Liver- 
pool, and to make arrangements for the approaching session. His 
appearance bore evident signs of lurking malady ; and, the day 
after his arrival, he had a sharp access of cold and fever : but, 
finding himself better on the following morning, he proceeded to 
join his family at Brighton ; and a few days afterwards, Mr. Hus- 
kisson removed to London. 

On the day when Lord Liverpool was struck with apoplexy, 
Mr. Huskisson had been ordered not to leave the house ; and the 
intelligence, therefore, did not reach him till about four in the 
afternoon. His anxiety to ascertain the particulars induced him 
to go immediately to Fife House ; and this imprudence, and the 
excitement which ensued from the interruption of public business, 
produced, in a few days, a decided attack of inflammation of the 
trachea. 

By the beginning of April, Mr. Huskisson's health was suffi- 
ciently re-established to allow him to go to Lord Stafford's, at 
-Wimbleton, for change of air ; but he did not resume his place 
in the House of Commons till after the Easter recess. 

On the 7th of May, after several postponements, and a long and 
threatening note of preparation. General Gascoyne brought for- 
ward his motion " for a Committee to inquire into the distressed 
state of the Shipping interest :" when Mr. Huskisson, for the last 
time, as President of the Board of Trade, undertook the vindica- 
tion of the recent changes in the Commercial Policy of the coun- 
try; and, in a speech characterized by the most statesman-like 
views and sentiments, and abounding in the most valuable com- 
mercial information, overthrew the allegations of his opponents, 
not only by the most convincing reasoning, but by the clearest 
arithmetical proofs. 

In May, Mr. Whitmore brought forward a motion " for a se- 
lect Committee to inquire into the East India Trade." Mr. Hus- 
kisson maintained the propriety of postponing the inquiry; and 
the statement which he made of his views upon this important 
question, proved so satisfactory to the House, that all parties joined 
in supporting his suggestion, and Mr. Whitmore not only con- 
2K 



274 BIOGRAPHICAL MEMOIR OE 

sented to withdraw the motion, but expressed his readiness to leave 

the subject entirely in his hands. 

In the course of the same month, Mr. Huskisson took occasion, 
on the presentation of a petition of the wool-growers of Dorset- 
shire, to explain the policy which had guided the alterations made 
in the duties and regulations affecting the Wool Trade, and to 
exhibit the causes which had produced the immense increase in 
the growth of wool abroad, especially in Germany. He did not, 
unfortunately, live to hear how completely the soundness of 
his arguments, and his views respecting this valuable branch of 
the manufactures, has been proved. 

The session was closed on the 2d of July; and, about the mid- 
dle of the month, Mr. Huskisson, who had been earnestly recom- 
mended by his physicians to try whether the air of the continent, 
and a total abstraction from business, might not have a beneficial 
effect upon his debilitated frame, left England for Calais. On 
the day before his departure, he saw Mr. Canning, who received 
him in bed. Struck with the alteration in his looks, Mr. Hus- 
kisson remarked to him, that he seemed to be the person who 
stood most in need of change of air and of relaxation. Mr. 
Canning answered in a cheerful tone, — " Oh, it is only the reflec- 
tion of the yellow hangings of the curtains." This was on the 
18th of July. On the 19th Mr. Huskisson embarked at the Tower, 
accompanied by Mrs. Huskisson and his private secretary. On 
landing at Calais, with the ill luck which constantly pursued him, 
he entangled his foot in a cable, and lacerated it so severely that 
he was unable to walk for some days. The party rapidly crossed 
France to Strasburg ; and after a short visit to Baden, proceeded, 
by the route of Stutgardt and Augsburg, to Munich. Here Mr. 
Huskisson was induced to remain a few days in the society of 
Sir Brooke Taylor, the English Minister, and then proceeded on 
to Salzburg, intending to go to Bad Gastein, the mountainous and 
bracing air of which had been strongly recommended to him. At 
Salzburg, he learned that there would probably be much difficulty 
in procuring accommodations ; and, though provided with letters 
of introduction from the different ambassadors in England, and 
more particularly from Prince Esterhazy, yet, such was his dis- 
like to anything that savoured of parade or ostentation, that, 



THE RIGHT HONOURABLE WILLIAM HUSKISSON. 275 

instead of sending forward a courier to Gastein, or presenting 
his letters to tfie Governor of Salzburg, he quietly relinquished his 
plan, and turned back to Innsbruck. 

On the 14th of August, he reached Innsbruck ; and the 12th 
was the first day in which he appeared really to have derived 
benefit from his tour. He had recovered from his lameness, and 
was much pleased with a long walk to the Chateau d'Amras and 
its environs. Here, too, he had the satisfaction of receiving 
letters from London, mentioning Mr. Canning's convalescence ; 
and on the 13th, the party set off for the pass of the Monte 
Spluga, in better spirits, and with brighter hopes than they had 
yet felt. 

On that night, they slept at Landeek ; and, on the following 
afternoon, reached Teldkirch, in the Vararlbeg. Mr. Huskisson's 
health was now decidedly improving. He had been much in- 
terested in the beautiful scenery of the Tyrol ; and his mind was 
recovering its wonted elasticity and playfulness, too soon to be 
again painfully unstrung. Early on the morning of the 15th 
instant, just as they were setting off for Cairo, an estafette from 
Sir Brooke Taylor came in, bearing a letter from Lord Gran- 
ville, at Paris, to announce the alarming turn which Mr. Canning's 
illness had taken. The route was instantly changed ; and on the 
20th, the party reached the Hotel of the English Embassy at 
Paris, having travelled as fast as his own strength and that of 
Mrs. Huskisson would permit. 

The fatal termination of Mr. Canning's illness had become 
known to him on the road, but without any of the particulars, or 
any of the ministerial arrangements subsequently proposed : and 
Mr. Huskisson's impression, more than once expressed to his 
companions on the road, was, that his own political career had 
closed for evdT. The meeting with Lord Granville — the painful 
details which he had to learn, and the rapidity with which he 
had travelled, completely exhausted both his physical and moral 
strength, and rendered some repose absolutely necessary. Nor 
did the melancholy incitement to tax either beyond their power 
in the hope of paying the last mark of public and private regard 
to his departed friend, then exist; for the funeral of Mr. Canning 
had taken place on the 16th, the day after the estafette reached 
Feldkirch. 



276 BIOGRAPHICAL MEMOIR OF 

But, beyond the considerations arising from the state of his own 
heahh, Mr. Huskisson was decided to remain a few days in 
Paris, in order to receive some official and definite information 
respecting the proposed arrangements for supplying the loss of 
Mr. Canning, and continuing the existing administration. The 
expresses which had been despatched from England had taken a 
different route from that by which Mr. Huskisson had returned ; 
and it was very desirable that either the letters of which they 
were the bearers, or fresh ones, should explain to him, before he 
pursued his journey to England, what were the intentions of the 
remaining members of the Administration, in regard to the re- 
modelling of the government : as, should he decide on declining 
any proposals made to him, his plan was to have tried the effect 
of a winter in the south of Europe ; and it has already been stated, 
that the inclination of his mind, from the first moment in which 
he heard of the death of his friend and colleague, was to listen to 
the warning voice of his medical friends, and to withdraw entirely 
from public life. 

On the 23d, one of the expresses arrived. The letters of Lord 
Goderich communicated that he had accepted the office of First 
Lord of the Treasury, and conveyed an offer, couched in the 
most friendly and handsome terms, of the Colonial Department, 
which he had vacated, to Mr. Huskisson. Further letters from 
England announced that Mr. Grant was, in the ev'ent of these 
proposals being accepted, to succeed to the Presidency of the 
Board of Trade; and that Lord Lansdowne, and the remaining 
members of Mr. Canning's government, had declared their acqui- 
escence in these arrangements. All the letters pressed Mr. Hus- 
kisson to return without loss of time, and mentioned that the King 
had expressed his earnest wishes that no delay might take place 
in his assuming his new office. It was not without considerable 
hesitation that Mr. Huskisson was persuaded to decide upon con- 
tinuing in office. His secret inclinations leaned the other way ; 
and he only yielded at last to the arguments and expostulations of 
his friends, who represented the dissolution of the government, 
and the consequent annihilation of Mr. Canning's system of 
policy, as the too probable result of his refusal — arguments and 
expostulations which were enforced by the special commands of 
his sovereign. 



THE RIGHT HONOURABLE WILLIAM HUSKISSON. 277 

He left Paris on the 25th, and reached London on the 28th. 
On the following morning, he waited on the King, at Windsor. 
A long negotiation commenced ; and, after some explanations 
and much difficulty, Lord Lansdowne, at his Majesty's special 
request, consented to withdraw the resignation he had tendered. 
Mr. Huskisson, at the same time, accepted the seals of the Colo- 
nial Department ; and Mr. Herries was sworn in as Chancellor 
of the Exchequer. 

He had now an opportunity of following up those important 
commercial regulations, with respect to the Colonial Policy of 
England, which had occupied so much of his attention at the 
Board of Trade, and of giving to the improvement and careful 
revision of the Colonial System all the resources of his powerful 
mind. He did not long remain idle. Within less than a month 
after his appointment, an official despatch was addressed by him 
to Sir John Keane, the Lieutenant-Governor of Jamaica, which 
was dated the 22d of September, and filled seven columns of the 
Jamaica Gazette. This despatch may safely be pronounced to 
be a document, not less remarkable for the circumstances under 
which it was composed, than intrinsically valuable and important 
for the ability with which it was executed. The interval between 
Mr. Huskisson's return and his entrance upon the duties of the 
Colonial Department, had been filled with anxious and unremit- 
ting exertions to consolidate the new Ministry ; yet, with all the 
distractions of an unpractised Cabinet, in which he bore his full 
share, and under the pressure of severe affliction, and of impaired 
and precarious health, his indefatigable mind found time, in this 
short period, to master the almost endless details of those thorny 
and repulsive subjects, which had cost a year's labour to the 
House of Assembly, and produced a despatch, marked throughout 
with temper, discrimination, comprehensive sagacity, statesman- 
like power, and a disregard of all selfish clamour. 

Mr. Huskisson's purpose was, to state the objections of the 
government at home to the very inefficacious manner in which 
the House of Assembly of Jamaica attempted or professed to 
carry into execution the principles laid down by the British Par- 
liament, and to fulfil the instructions transmitted by Lord Bath- 
24 



278 BIOGRAPHICAL MEMOIR OF 

urst. The task was a most ungracious one ; but it was performed 

by a master-hand. 

But the labours of Mr. Huskisson, in the Colonial Department 
of his office, soon received a serious interruption. The intelligence 
which reached England, in November, of the battle of Navarino, 
and the difficulties which shortly after arose in other quarters, 
paralyzed the proceedings of government, and threw every thing 
into a state of doubt and confusion. 

At length, towards the close of the year, it became generally 
understood that Lord Goderich's administration had melted away 
like a snow-wreath, and that measures were in progress for form- 
ing a new one. An ineffectual attempt had been previously 
made, to prevent the entire dissolution of the existing govern- 
ment. By command of his Majesty, Mr. Huskisson opened a 
communication with Lord Harrowby. His Lordship waited upon 
the King, at Windsor, but no inducements could prevail upon him 
to accept the post of Prime Minister ; to which he pleaded his 
want of health as an insurmountable obstacle : and this proposed 
arrangement fell to the ground. A yet further delay then ensued ; 
and there are strong grounds for believing that, had Mr. Huskis- 
son listened to the voice of ambition, the situation of Minister was 
within his grasp ; but the recent fate of Mr. Canning was a warn- 
ing which might have deterred a mind more full of aspiring 
ambition than Mr. Huskisson's from accepting, under parallel 
circumstances, that post which the fiat of the aristocracy had 
declared, should be held only by one of their own order. After 
another short interval of doubt, the commission to form an ad- 
ministration was given to the Duke of Wellington ; and before 
January expired, the new arrangements were made public. 

Mr. Huskisson was re-elected for Liverpool without opposition, 
and took his seat in the House of Commons on the 11th of Feb- 
ruary. In the interval, much notice had been attracted to the 
report of something which was said to have fallen from him 
during the election, when explaining the motives of his continu- 
ance in office, respecting certain guarantees received from the 
Duke of Wellington ; and some unpleasant and angry feelings 
were manifested, which augured ill for the cordiality of future 
proceedings. Several allusions were made to this expression in 



THE RIGHT HONOURABLE WILLIAM HUSKISSON. 279 

both Houses ; and the Duke of Wellington rather warmly repu- 
diated the idea that he could have been guilty of giving any 
guarantee for his future conduct. The business was, however, 
satisfactorily explained by Mr. Huskisson, on the 18th of Febru- 
ary, when Lord Normanby brought on a discussion respecting 
the dissolution of the last, and the conduct of Mr. Huskisson 
in joining the present, government ; and the letter which was read 
from Mr. Shepherd, on that occasion, set the question of the guar- 
antee finally at rest. 

The high estimation in which Mr. Huskisson was held, was 
strikingly manifested when the appointment of the Committee of 
Finance was moved. He had declined being placed on it, from 
a feeling that neither his official duties, nor the state of his heahh, 
would allow of his regular attendance on this arduous investiga- 
tion. The Hst of names having been read, Mr. Baring arose, and 
observed, " without any disrespect to the members composing 
the committee, I may be permitted to say, that the whole aggre- 
gate amount of their financial knowledge, bears no proportion to 
that possessed by the right honourable gentleman. His informa- 
tion «nd research have penetrated into every corner of our 
financial and commercial systems : and to except him from the 
committee, is to shut out the greatest light that can be thrown 
upon the subjects therein discussed." To this high eulogium, Mr. 
Brougham added, that the knowledge of all the other members 
combined was as nothing — as dust in the balance, compared with 
the resources of his mind. Mr. Huskisson was consequently in- 
duced to forego his objections, and his name was added to the 
committee. He now again, to use his own words, applied him- 
self earnestly and indefatigably to the amelioration of the Colo- 
nial System — to strengthen the bonds which attached her distant 
possessions to the mother-country, and to bring forward, expound, 
improve, and perfect, measures connected with the foreign com- 
merce and the internal industry of that country, — objects to which 
his attention had been long sedulously applied. But, besides his 
correspondence with Sir John Keane, to which we have already 
alluded, the few months of Mr. Huskisson's Colonial Administra- 
tion were marked by other important measures: — by the appoint- 
ment of a committee to examine into the state of the Canadas, 



280 BIOGRAPHICAL MEMOIR OF 

where strong dissatisfaction and growing discontent had long 
prevailed — by a bill to provide for the administration of justice 
in New South Wales and Van Diemen's Land, and by the first 
step towards the accomplishment of an object, which, in common 
with every friend of humanity, he had earnestly at heart — the 
gradual reduction of the British establishments on the Slave Coast 
of Africa, and the withdrawing of the garrisons from the forts on 
the Gold Coast. His correspondence with the governors of the 
West India Colonies, sufficiently proves how earnestly he endea- 
voured to impress upon the Colonial Legislature, the necessity, as 
well as wisdom, of giving effect, without delay, to the resolutions 
of the British Parliament: and how carefully and steadily he 
applied himself to devise means materially to improve the civil 
and moral condition of the slave population. 

The speeches which he delivered on moving the appointment 
of a committee to enquire into the state of the Canadas, and on the 
discussions of the bill to regulate the government of New South 
Wales, are not only full of the most liberal sentiments, respecting 
the treatment, by the mother country, of those important colo- 
nies, but exhibit such an intimate knowledge of their present 
state, and comprehensive views for their future prosperity, as 
could only have been acquired by the most patient research, and 
impartial communication with every source of information which 
was open to him. 

Mr, Huskisson, with the other members of government in the 
House of Commons, opposed Lord John Russell's Bill for the re- 
peal of the Test and Corporation Acts ; but his opposition, on 
this occasion, did not impugn the sincerity of his principles in 
favour of rehgious toleration; and he thus explained and defend- 
ed the grounds of it : — " I am not, abstractedly, unfriendly to the 
proposition ; but I cannot assent to it, because I am sure, that 
with reference to the Catholic claims, it will make a bad impres- 
sion. I am convinced, that the present measure, so far from 
being a step in favour of the Catholic claims, would, if successful, 
be the means of arraying an additional power against them." 

The months of March and April were principally consumed in 
debates upon the Corn Bill ; and, from the tone of the discussions, 
the pubUc thought they could gather a confirmation of the reports 



THE RIGHT HONOURABLE WILLIAM HUSKISSON. 281 

which had very generally prevailed, of considerable dissensions 
among the Ministers, respecting the provisions of the bill. Neither 
Mr. Grant nor Mr. Huskisson professed to consider the scale of 
duties without objection ; and contented themselves with recom- 
mending the arrangement, as the best which, under all circum- 
stances, could then be realized. But while Mr. Huskisson was 
taunted, in the House of Commons, with having consented to 
compromise his former opinions on the Coi'n Laws, it was 
strongly suspected, that the Duke of Wellington had met with a 
firmer resistance among his liberal colleagues than he had antici- 
pated ; and that he, on his part, found the task of introducing the 
new bill rather an unpalatable comment upon his opposition of 
the former year. 

However strong the suspicions of disunion in the Cabinet, no 
open proof appeared to confirm them ; and, with the passing of 
the Corn Bill, whatever differences of opinion might have oc- 
curred, were supposed to have subsided with the cause which 
had provoked them. 

Mr. Huskisson knew that he was regarded with a suspicious 
and jealous eye by what is termed the Agricultural Interest ; and, 
in the course of the debates on the propriety of disfranchising 
East Retford, and transferring the right of election to one of the 
great manufacturing towns, he thus plainly alluded to the cir- 
cumstance : — " It has sometimes been said, I know not on what 
grounds, that I am not a friend to the Agricultural Interest; but 
I feel the less uneasy under an imputation of that nature, as I am 
persuaded, that an enlarged view of the policy which I have 
always recommended, cannot fail to lead to the conclusion, that 
I have uniformly supported those principles which are best cal- 
culated to promote the general interests of each class ; and, as a 
consequence, the good of the whole community." 

On the 12th of May, Mr. Huskisson, contrary to the practice 
which he had usually followed during the life of Mr. Canning, 
made an able and argumentative speech in favour of the Catho- 
lics. On the 13th, he spoke feelingly and eloquently, for granting 
to the son of Mr. Canning, under the Officer's Pensions Act, an an- 
nuity of 3000/. a year. It is rather a singular circumstance, that 
almost the last exertion of his influence, as a Minister, was to 
24* 2L 



282 BIOGRAPHICAL MEMOIR OF 

obtain the concurrence of the government to this pension being 
granted for the joint hves of the two sons of Mr. Canning, with 
benefit of survivorship. Every one is aware, that but for this 
extension of the grant, the intention of parHament would have 
been rendered nugatory by the untimely death of the eldest son 
in the course of the following summer. On the 19th, the discus- 
sion on East Retford terminated Mr. Huskisson's career as a 
Minister — he having taken ground in opposition to the Cabinet. 

Mr. Huskisson's removal was followed by the resignation of 
Lords Dudley and Palmerston, — of Mr. Grant, Mr. Lamb, Mr. 
Frankland Lewis, and Lord Howard de Walden. Lord Gran- 
ville left Paris ; and other changes subsequently occurred in the 
diplomatic arrangements. Mr. Huskisson did not take much 
part in the business of the House during the remainder of the 
session, which offered little of interest ; but previous to the close 
of it, in calling for copies of the American Tariff, he prefaced his 
motion with one of those able speeches, with which he was wont 
to rivet the attention of his hearers, whenever he addressed them 
on points of financial or commercial interest ; and laid down and 
commented on the policy which ought to regulate the intercourse 
of England with the United States, in his usual luminous and 
forcible manner. 

His health, which had never perfectly recovered from the se- 
vere attack of the preceding year, had been still farther shaken 
by the almost constant anxiety of mind, to which he had been 
exposed from the moment he heard of Mr. Canning's alarming 
illness, and by the laborious duties of his office. His physicians 
were, therefore, urgent in their recommendations, that he should 
again try the influence of the air of the continent ; which he could 
now enjoy for a longer period ; and the recollection of the bene- 
fit which he had begun to derive, when his journey was so fatally 
terminated in the preceding summer, determined him to comply 
with their advice. Towards the end of July, he and Mrs. Hus- 
kisson proceeded to Switzerland." The season proved very un- 
favourable for the enjoyment of the scenery of that country, and 
they therefore crossed the Alps ; and, after spending a week at 
Venice, were induced to continue their journey to Rome. Mr. 
Huskisson had wished to travel as privately as possible; and 



THE RIGHT HONOURABLE WILLIAM HUSKISSON. 283 

had, in consequence, again declined to make use of any ot the 
letters of introduction with which he had been furnished : but at 
Rome, it being intimated to him that the Pope had a strong desire 
to receive so firm an advocate of the cause of the English and 
Irish Catholics, he was presented to his Holiness, and met with a 
most flattering reception. Private business, which demanded his 
presence in England, determined him to relinquish Naples, and he 
returned to England early in November. 

The following session was principally occupied with the all- 
engrossing subject of the Roman Catholic Relief Bill. Mr. Hus- 
kisson took an early opportunity of expressing his satisfaction at 
the course which the government had resolved on pursuing; 
while, at the same time, he could not refrain from expressing his 
regret that the conversion of some of its members had not taken 
place at an earlier period, when that lamented friend, whose un- 
ceasing exertions, whose splendid eloquence, and whose brilliant 
talents, had so greatly contributed to forward and mature this 
interesting question, both in parliament and in the mind of the 
public, might have witnessed the triumph of his labours. 

Throughout the long discussions to which this bill gave rise, 
he offered to the government an active and powerful support ; 
and his name occurs in almost all the debates on this subject. 

When the state of the Silk Trade was once more brought 
under the consideration of parliament, by Mr. Tyler, the member 
for Coventry, Mr. Huskisson came forward to maintain and de- 
fend those principles of trade which he had so long advocated ; 
and declared that experience only confirmed him in the convic- 
tion, that a gradual relaxation of the restrictive system was 
invariably followed by a gradual improvement in manufactures, 
commerce, and revenue. The effect of this speech was conclu- 
sive ; and the Silk Question, that fertile source of debate for the 
last four sessions, now received its quietus. 

In all the discussions which arose with respect to the future 
arrangements to be made on the renewal of the East India Com- 
pany's charter, Mr. Huskisson took a warm interest, both as 
member for Liverpool, and in reference to the great commercial 
interests involved in it. But he did not confine his views to the 
narrow limits of commercial considerations. His enlightened 



284 BIOGRAPHICAL MEMOIR OF 

mind embraced topics of infinitely higher importance — topics 
which involved the tranquillity and happiness of millions of sub- 
jects, who looked to England for protection — the improvement 
in civilization, the increase of comforts, and the exaltation of the 
moral character of the natives of India. It is probable that Mr. 
Huskisson felt an additional interest in the settlement of the India 
question, and that he had turned his mind more closely to the 
consideration of it, from the circumstance that it had more than 
once been proposed to him to proceed thither. The government 
of Madras had been offered to him, previously to the appointment 
of Sir Thomas Monro ; and it was principally from the opinions 
of his medical advisers, as well as from his own indifference to 
wealth, that he determined to decline it. At a later period, there 
is little reason to doubt, it is affirmed, that the supreme govern- 
ment of India might have been his. It is true that no positive 
offer was made to him ; but it certainly was hinted at, and the 
hint rejected without a moment's hesitation : his constitution being 
then too far debilitated to allow him to entertain the idea of a resi- 
dence in a hot climate. 

So often as the opportunity presented itself, did Mr. Huskisson 
endeavour to impress upon the government the wisdom of re- 
ducing the amount of unfunded debt, in the hands of the Bank. 
Of the necessity of this, he appears to have been long sensible ; 
but in the latter years of his hfe, he became even more alive to 
the importance of some arrangement by which the evil might be 
alleviated. One of the great and favourite objects of his com- 
mercial policy, and one which he never lost sight of, was, the 
promotion of every measure which might be calculated to make 
England the entrepot of the world. It was with this view that he 
had shown himself so desirous that foreign copper ores might be 
allowed to be smelted in England, for the purposes of exporta- 
tion — a permission which was vehemently opposed by the pro- 
prietors of mines in England. 

In the month of August, Mr. Huskisson paid a visit to his con- 
stituents, at Liverpool It was the first time he had met them as 
a private individual ; and his reception was as honourable to the 
good taste and feeling of the commercial community of that great 
port, as it was gratifying to himself. 



THE RIGHT HONOURABLE WILLIAM HUSKISSON. 285 

Parliament was now about to meet under circumstances of pecu- 
liar difficulty. During tlie three last sessions, with the exception of 
the Roman Catholic Relief Bill, small progress had been made in 
any measures for the relief or improvement of the country. In 
that of 1827, first the illness of Lord Liverpool, and then the 
delays attendant on the formation of a new government, had oc- 
cupied the greater portion of the session : the following year had 
been consumed, in a great measure, with like difficulties and 
delays : and in the last, every thing had given way to, and been 
overlooked in the settlement of the Roman Catholic question. The 
public began to demand greater proofs of an efficient Adminis- 
tration, and to manifest strong symptoms of disquietude and dis- 
satisfaction. 

Both Houses assembled on the 4th of February ; and the lan- 
guage held by the partizans of Ministers was still that of confident 
security. They evidently calculated their strength on the im- 
probability of a cordial union between the different parties into 
which the opposition was split; and on the divisions of their 
opponents, they built their best hopes of riding out the storm which 
was gathering around them. This security received a stagger- 
ing blow on the first night's debate on the Address, when the 
government reeled to its centre, and might have been overthrown, 
had it not been for the unexpected assistance of that party 
which, to borrow a phrase from the French, may be termed 
the extreme left. This party went over in a body to their sup- 
port; and, by this manoeuvre, the amendment was negatived, 
and the original address carried by a small majority. On this 
occasion, Mr. Huskisson both voted and spoke in favour of the 
amendment; but, faithful to his recorded opinions, and keenly 
alive to the danger of misconception or misrepresentation on 
points on which many of the principal supporters of the amend- 
ment were known to entertain views and tenets totally irrecon- 
cileable with his own, he distinctly stated the grounds upon which 
his support was given, " in order to guard against the possibility 
of its being supposed, that he was not most anxious to protect the 
country from the evils which must ensue from any fresh attempt 
to alter the currency." 

When the Disfranchisement Bill was once more brought for- 



286 BIOGRAPHICAL MEMOIR OF 

ward, Mr. Huskisson again raised his warning voice, and em- 
phatically urged the wisdom and justice of transferring the elective 
franchise to Birmingham. Again he pointed out the immense 
importance of this measure in reference to the general question 
of reform, and avowed his conviction, that it was of the utmost 
consequence to deal with the present case so as best to guard 
against the growing danger of sweeping reform, on principles too 
abstract and general. 

Notwithstanding all the exertions of government, the amend- 
ment for transferring the right of election to Birmingham, was 
only defeated by a very trifling majority. This effort to commence 
a moderate and reasonable reform having failed, Mr. Huskisson, 
who was deeply sensible of the danger resulting from this con- 
tinued resistance to the wishes of the public, next supported a 
motion of Lord John Russell's, for giving representations to Man- 
chester, Leeds, and Birmingham — a measure which he enforced 
by the most powerful arguments ; and stated that the time was 
fast approaching when, if it were now rejected, Ministers would 
be obliged themselves to propose such a step, as necessary for the 
safety and salvation of the country. 

Though devoting himself, with infinite labour, to his attendance 
on the East India Committee, and though evidently suffering 
under symptoms of indisposition, Mr. Huskisson took an active 
part in most of the important debates of this session. His speeches 
relating to Mexico, in particular, will be found full of valuable 
observations on the situation and prospects of that country, and 
on the probable views and policy of the United States towards 
her ; and are doubly interesting, as marking the vigilant eye with 
which he regarded the conduct of England, in her relations with 
that portion of the world ; the importance of which has been too 
generally undervalued by the statesmen of Europe. 

One of the most finished and successful speeches he ever made, 
was that delivered on Mr. Davenport's motion for " an inquiry 
into the causes of the distress of the nation ;" which, at the re- 
quest of his friends, he afterwards revised for publication — a task 
he could seldom be persuaded to undertake. The views stated 
in this speech he enlarged upon, in subsequent debate on the 
subject of injudicious taxation ; when he declared his unalterable 



THE RIGHT HONOURABLE WILLIAM HUSKISSON. 287 

conviction, that the upholding of the present Corn Laws, and of 
the present system of taxation, was incompatible with an increase 
of national prosperity, or with the preservation of national con- 
tentment : and expressed his opinion, that those laws might be 
repealed without affecting the Landed Interest, and at the same 
time, the distress of the people be relieved. 

In pursuance of those opinions which he had so often advo- 
cated, and in conformity with the whole tenor of his public life, 
Mr. Huskisson gave a powerful and cordial support to the bill 
brought forward by Mr. Robert Grant, for the removal of the 
various disabilities affecting persons of the Jewish persuasion. 
Mr. Huskisson's name will also be found in the list of the minority 
who voted for repealing the punishment of death in cases of 
forgery. On this subject, he was known to entertain considera- 
ble hesitation ; but where so much doubt prevailed, even among 
those who had considered the question with the profoundest 
attention, he felt, conscientiously, that it became the duty of a 
legislator, to give the benefit of that doubt to the side of mercy 
and humanity; and that the experiment of substituting a milder 
penalty deserved at least to be tried. He therefore supported the 
amendment moved by Sir James Mackintosh. 

When, in the month of June, the Chancellor of the Exchequer 
introduced his resolutions respecting the Sugar Duties, a most 
animated debate ensued. Mr. Huskisson had, on a former occa- 
sion, expressed his conviction, that great as might be the pres- 
sure and the difficulties upon other interests in the country, there 
was none labouring under more difficulties, or requiring more 
urgently that relief should be given to it, than the West India 
Interest. He now dissected and criticised the proposals of the 
Chancellor of the Exchequer, with a force and effect which car- 
ried confusion into the ranks of the Treasury; and he denounced 
the undecided and vacillating conduct which marked all the 
measures of government. The unpremeditated readiness with 
which Mr. Huskisson overthrew the propositions of the Chancel- 
lor of the Exchequer — the clearness and acuteness with which he 
exposed their fallacy — the force of his arguments, and the severity 
of his sarcasm, made an impression upon the House, almost un- 
precedented in matters of such dry detail. The government had 



288 BIOGRAPHICAL MEMOIR OF 

a majority in their favour ; but this made but small amends for 
the mortification they sustained from the caustic denunciations 
of Mr. Huskisson, and the bitter taunts of Mr. Brougham ; and 
they subsequently abandoned their original proposition. 

Little more remains of the parliamentary history of Mr. Hus- 
kisson. As a small, but immediate measure of relief to the crying 
distresses of the West India proprietors, he proposed a reduction 
of the duties levied on rum in Scotland and Ireland ; but, on an 
assurance that the government would be ready, at another time, 
to enter upon the question, and in consideration of the advanced 
state of the session, and the absence of many of the Irish mem- 
bers, he consented not to press his resolution to a division. His 
speech on the West India Question was the last he ever made 
within the walls of that House, of which he was, for so many years, 
one of the greatest ornaments. 

He only said a few words, on the 13th of July, in answer to a 
complaint of Mr. Wilmot Horton's, that he had omitted, in his 
speech on the state of the country, to advert to emigration, as one 
essential mode of relief: to which observation, Mr. Huskisson 
merely replied, that he had only addressed himself to measures 
of immediate relief; and that, though no enemy to emigration, it 
appeared to him to be a subject demanding great and serious con- 
sideration. 

Such is a brief outline of Mr. Huskisson's parliamentary his- 
tory ; and an outUne is, unfortunately, all that can be offered of 
many even of his most important speeches. Indifferent to dis- 
play — speaking frequently without the slightest preparation — 
rising late in the debate, and addressing himself to subjects the 
least attractive to all but those whose interests were involved, it 
is not surprising, that many of his speeches should be imperfectly 
reported. The-speeches which he was prevailed upon to publish, 
were subjected to a careful revision ; but it was a task which he 
undertook with considerable reluctance. In composition, he was 
difficult in the selection of his words, and in the arrangement of his 
sentences: and without, perhaps, carrying fastidiousness to the 
extent which Mr. Canning is reported to have done, it may still 
be fairly said, that he never spared the file. This, hovi'ever, is 
only true as applied to official papers. In his common corre- 



THE RIGHT HONOURABLE WILLIAM HUSKISSON. 289 

spondence, his style was strongly indicative of his character — 
simple, easy, and natural. 

For some time past, his physical system had evidently been 
suffering under a degree of languor and debility which required 
care and rest ; and showed itself by no means equal to the heavy 
demands made upon it, by the incessant activity of his mental 
powers. Influenced by the recollection of past favours, and by 
the feelings of gratitude which he always cherished towards 
George IV., for the kindness and confidence with which he had 
treated him whilst a servant of the Crown, and unmindful of the 
inadequacy of his strength to any considerable fatigue and ex- 
citement, Mr. Huskisson determined to pay the last mark of 
respectful duty, by attending the funeral ceremony of the monarch. 
For this purpose, he left town on the 14th of July, for Sir George 
Warrender's at Clifden, and, on the following evening, proceeded 
to Windsor. 

The procession had scarcely begun to move from St. George's 
Hall, when he felt himself ill; and, as it was then impossible to 
withdraw, he continued, during the whole of the long ceremony, 
in great suffering. As soon as he could leave the Chapel, he re- 
turned to Clifden, where he remained seriously ill the whole of 
the following day. On Saturday, he was sufficiently relieved to be 
removed to London, where he underwent an operation, which 
was most skilfully performed by Dr. Copeland, but which con- 
fined him to his room for a fortnight, and greatly reduced him. 

On the 12th of July, he had received the following requisition 
from Liverpool : — 

Sir, 
His Majesty having, by his royal Message, intimated his intention of 
speedily dissolving the present parliament, and calling a new one, we, the 
undersigned, freemen and other inhabitants of Liverpool, again seek the 
assurance of your willingness to be put in nomination to represent this 
borough. We gratefully acknowledge the particular and effective care 
which our local interests have ever received from you; and, on having 
your permission, we pledge ourselves to use our utmost exertions to main- 
tain a connexion, which hitherto has been to us so acceptable and gratifying. 

Never within the annals of that borough, had a requisition so 
numerously and respectably signed, been sent to a candidate; 
25 2M 



290 BIOGRAPHICAL MEMOIR OF 

combining, as it did, the names of individuals of every political 
sentiment, and whose commercial interests were equally various 
and conflicting. Notwithstanding the laborious duties attending 
a popular election, Mr. Huskisson could not but look forward 
with pride and exultation to the period when he was again to 
present himself as a candidate for the second commercial port in 
the kingdom; not invested with the dignity of a Minister, or 
backed by the influence of the government, but relying on the 
recollection of the faithful zeal and attention with which he had 
discharged his duties towards his constituents. This high gratifi- 
cation was denied him ; as his medical attendants pronounced him 
to be utterly incapable of undertaking so long a journey, or of 
encountering the fatigues of an election ; and peremptorily for- 
bade the attempt. Mr. Huskisson was, therefore, constrained to 
yield, however reluctantly, to their commands. To all the former 
proofs of regard and admiration which the inhabitants of Liver- 
pool had already, at different times, conferred upon him, they 
now added that of re-electing him, without his appearing at the 
hustings. 

Although the operation which he had undergone had been 
pronounced completely successful, Mr. Huskisson's convalescence 
was so exceedingly slow, that his medical advisers became anxious 
that he should try the eflfect of sea air towards the recovery of 
his strength; and an opportunity of doing so presented itself 
which overcame the habitual dislike entertained by him towards 
a residence at a watering place. Lord Anglesey had pressed 
him warmly to visit him at Cowes — an invitation which Mr. 
Huskisson accepted with pleasure, not only as affording him the 
means of enjoying the sea air, without fatigue, by frequent ex- 
cursions on the water, but because he entertained towards Lord 
Anglesey strong feelings of private and public attachment, for the 
many proofs of considerate regard and manly support received 
from him from the first period of their political connexion. 

After a week's stay with the noble Marquis, Mr. Huskisson pro- 
ceeded to Eartham, where he remained till the begmning of Sep- 
tember, when he sat out on his ill-fated journey to Liverpool, in 
order to be present at the opening of the new railway to Man- 
chester, which was to be celebrated with great magnificence 



THE RIGHT HONOURABLE WILLIAM HUSKISSON. 291 

and rejoicing, and which ceremony he had long promised to 
attend. 

On the 10th, he and Mrs. Huskisson arrived at Sir John To- 
bin's, near Liverpool, where a large party of his friends was 
assembled to meet them. As the period of his intended stay was 
limited by other arrangements, every day was fully occupied 
either by public business, or in inspecting the various improve- 
ments which had been made in the docks, and other great estab- 
Hshments, since his last visit. 

To Mrs. Huskisson, who had never been at Liverpool before, 
every thing was new ; and he was anxious that she should avail 
herself of this occasion to see as much as possible of this great 
emporium of British enterprise. In pursuance of this object, the 
morning of Monday was partly occupied in viewing the mag- 
nificent docks and quays upon the Mersey. On landing from the 
steam-boat, Mr. Huskisson was called away to attend some en- 
gagements in the town, and could not, by this means, accompany 
Mrs. Huskisson to the public cemetery. It is remarkable that 
he should have been known, on several occasions, to express 
himself, in terms of the strongest admiration, of the taste and 
liberality which had planned and completed this spot, and that 
he should have pressed Mrs. Huskisson (who was already fatigued 
with the previous excursion of the morning) to visit it, with unu- 
sual earnestness. 

On the morning of the 14th, he went to the Exchange, accom- 
panied by Mr. Bolton, Sir John Tobin, and many of his friends, 
where a vast multitude, in addition to the gentlemen who usually 
attend about that time, had assembled to hail his arrival once 
more after the disappointment they had experienced by his non- 
attendance during the election. The large room was crowded 
to excess. If there were any who supposed that Mr. Huskisson 
had, in consequence of his secession from the toils of public life, 
lost any of his popularity amongst his constituents, they would, 
could they have been there to witness the enthusiasm with which 
he was received, have seen abundant proofs of the fallacy of such 
an opinion. He never was more warmly greeted ; and there 
never was a period when his observations were listened to with 
a deeper interest 



292 BIOGRAPHICAL MEMOIR OF 

Early the next morning the party proceeded to Wavertree, to 
the point where they were to join the grand procession. It is 
scarcely necessary to repeat here, that nothing could exceed the 
success of the undertaking, up to the moment of the arrival of 
the procession at Parkside, where the engine was. stopped to 
take in a fresh supply of water. It has been said that it was not 
intended for any one to leave the carriages, and that a placard 
to this effect was issued by the Directors. If such was the case, 
the advice was little understood, or, at any rate, wholly neglect- 
ed ; for many, indeed most of the gentlemen in the Northumbrian, 
in which the Directors and the most distinguished of the visitors 
were placed, took advantage of the interval during which the 
procession stopped, to leave it, and to disperse in various groups 
upon the railway. According to some of the accounts in the 
daily journals, two of the steam-engines, the Phcenix and the 
North Star, passed without causing any accident -, and the par- 
ties were returning into the grand car, when an alarm was given, 
that the Rocket was rapidly approaching. This report caused 
considerable confusion, and every one hurried to resume his 
place. In the ordinary cars, there were steps on each side, by 
which they could be easily entered ; but these had been removed 
from the Northumbrian, it having been considered, that a flight 
of steps, in the form of a ladder, suspended at the back, and 
which could be brought at will to any part of it, would afford 
greater convenience to the ladies. Owing to this arrangement, a 
main chance of escape was cut off from those who were on the 
rail-road : and this explains the difficulty and danger experienced 
by Prince Esterhazy, and several others, when they hastily en- 
deavoured to regain their seats. 

Among those who had descended, was Mr. Huskisson. When 
about to return, he observed the Duke of Wellington in the front 
of the car, and not having seen him before, he went round to 
welcome him on bis visit to Liverpool, and to congratulate him 
on the satisfactory results of the morning's experiment. To the 
short delay arising from this act of courtesy, may be attributed 
the dreadful calamity which ensued. The cry arose that the 
Rocket was rapidly approaching. Mr. Huskisson hurried round 
to the side of the Northumbrian, and, grasping at the door, at« 



THE RIGHT HONOURABLE WILLIAM HUSKISSON. 293 

tempted to get in : the door swung back, and this sudden re-action 
threw him on the ground, at the moment wiien the I'atal engine 
was coming on with the utmost velocity ; and, before its coui'se 
could be arrested, he had received his mortal injury. 

Such, at least, is supposed to have been the case ; but other 
explanations, as to the cause of the fearful accident, have been 
given ; and every one can perfectly understand the impossibility 
of determining with certainty, the precise particulars of such a 
scene of horror and confusion. But whatever may have been 
the immediate occasion of his fall, he was himself convinced at 
once that the injury was fatal. Lord Wilton and several others 
were instantly at his side. They raised him a little, and a tour- 
niquet, formed with a stick and a handkerchief, was applied with- 
out loss of time. He asked earnestly for Mrs. Huskisson, 
kissed her, and then said, " God bless you all ; now let me die 
at once." 

From the hasty judgment which could be formed, it appeared 
to the professional gentlemen present, that there was a hope of 
saving his life, by an amputation of the shattered limb. It was 
therefore agreed, that the most expeditious and most practicable 
method of proceeding would be to go on to Manchester, where 
the best surgical assistance could be speedily procured. A car 
which had been occupied by the band was emptied, and he was 
placed in it, attended by Mrs. Huskisson, Lords Wilton and Col- 
ville, Dr. Brandeth, of Liverpool, Dr. Hunter, of Edinburgh, and 
Mr. Wainewright. The engine was then detached from the 
larger carriage, and the utmost despatch used for providing for 
the conveyance of the sufferer. Notwithstanding the agonies 
which he endured, no complaint or groan escaped him. He 
asked for a little water, with which Mrs. Huskisson moistened 
his lips ; and he himself suggested the seeking the quiet of some 
private house, if any could be found on the way, in preference to 
the crowd and confusion which must have been encountered at 
Manchester. Lord Wilton named the vicarage at Eccles, the resi- 
dence of the Rev. Mr. Blackbourne, through which the procession 
passed. Mr. Huskisson caught eagerly at the proposal, and said, 
" Oh, take me there, I know they will be good to me !" 
After depositing him at Eccles, Lord Wilton, whose kindness 
25* 



294 BIOGRAPHICAL MEMOIR OF 

and exertions never flagged throughout all the melancholy oc- 
currences of the day, proceeded with the engine to Manchester, 
and returned with incredible expedition, bringing with him Mr. 
Ransome, Mr. Whatton, and some other professional gentlemen. 

Mr. Huskisson himself had never doubted from the first that 
his injuries were mortal : but when the surgeons arrived, he ex- 
pressed himself willing to undergo whatever might be judged 
satisfactory to the feelings or wishes of those who surrounded 
him. He only entreated that Mrs. Huskisson, who had never 
quitted him, would absent herself whilst Mr. Ransome and his 
colleagues examined what it might be possible to attempt. After 
a careful consultation, they decided unanimously that, in the ex- 
treme state of exhaustion to which the sufferer was reduced, 
amputation, though indispensable in order to effect a recovery, 
could not be undertaken without the most imminent danger ; and 
Mr. Ransome candidly declared his conviction, that should he 
commence the operation, under existing circumstances, the patient 
must inevitably expire under it. Mrs. Huskisson was now per- 
mitted to return ; and attempts were made to create a re-action, 
by administering powerful restoratives, but in vain. Violent 
spasmodic convulsions rendered him gradually weaker, and occa- 
sionally wrung from him an expression of hope that his sufferings 
might not be prolonged. But although his agonies were almost 
past endurance, there were no unnecessary ejaculations, no mur- 
murings against the dispensation of Providence : on the contrary, 
he evinced throughout the most patient fortitude and resignation. 
The clearness of his mind continued perfect and unclouded. He 
made a codicil to his will, and gave directions on minute points, 
respecting the disposal of several of his private papers. It is also 
true, that having signed his name, he desired to have the paper 
brought back to him, in order to rectify an omission which he 
had made in the usual mode of his signature. 

Soon after six o'clock, he desired to see Mr, Blackbourne, in 
order to perform the last duties of religion. Before the sacrament 
was administered, he used these words, — " I can safely say that 
I bear no ill-will to any human being." It was at first feared, 
that this ceremony would be attended with some difficulty, as he 
had been for some time unable to raise his head, or to swallow. 



THE RIGHT HONOURABLE WILLIAM HUSKISSON. 295 

and only had his lips moistened occasionally with a feather. He, 
however, summoned up all his expiring strength, and, with great 
exertion, partook of the elements. This done, he again expressed 
his anxiety for a speedy release; and even those about him, when 
they beheld his hopeless sufferings, no longer dared to wish them 
prolonged. Still the kindness of his nature rose superior to his 
own agonies. Observing that her wretchedness had deprived 
Mrs. Huskisson of the power of utterance, and that she was in- 
capable of replying even to the expression of some of his injunc- 
tions, he endeavoured to console her; and the last words he 
addressed to her were, an assurance that he felt they should meet 
again. 

He then recommended her to the care of Lord Wilton. Speak- 
ing of himself, he used the expression which has been reported : 
— " The public have had the best of me, and I trust they will do 
me justice." This was the only allusion which he made to his 
pubHc character. He appeared to receive much gratification 
from the presence of Lord Granville, to whom he spoke several 
times in terms of the greatest affection : he continued, indeed, to 
be sensible of all that had been done for him, and grateful to all 
those around him, especially to Lord Wilton, upon whom he said 
he had no claim, as little previous acquaintance had subsisted 
between them. Soon after eight, it became evident that he was 
sinking rapidly, and at five minutes after nine, nature was com- 
pletely exhausted, and he breathed his last, after nine hours of the 
most excruciating torture. 

Mrs. Huskisson having been removed from the room by the 
care of her friends, the surgeons proceeded to a nearer investiga- 
tion of the injuries which Mr. Huskisson had sustained. It was 
then discovered that he must have fallen obliquely, as regarded 
the line of the railway, and that the thigh and leg must have been 
in such a position as to have formed with it a triangle, of which 
the angle at the apex would be presented by the bend of the 
knee. The wheel of the engine thus passed over the calf of the 
leg, and the middle of the thigh, leaving the knee itself uninjured. 
There was a compound fracture in the upper part of the left leg, 
just above the calf The wheel must have gone slantingly over 
the thigh up to the middle of it, as the muscles were all laid bare, 



296 BIOGRAPHICAL MEMOIR OF 

in that direction, in one immense flap ; and the bone was severely 
fractured, and comminuted almost to powder. No great efTusion 
of blood took place, nor did any of the great arteries appear 
to have been wounded, but the laceration is described to have 
been terrible. Such, at least, are the statements of the journals 
of that fearful day. 

The death of Mr. Huskisson was made known in Liverpool at 
an early hour on Thursday morning ; and though it had been an- 
ticipated as certain by all who knew the nature of the accident, 
yet it took the bulk of the people by surprise. All the shops and 
dwelling-houses were partially closed from one end of the town 
to the other. The flags on the public buildings, and on the ship- 
ping in the ports, were hoisted half-mast, and the inhabitants, 
without distinction of party, were plunged into the deepest sorrow. 
A very general wish was expressed that the remains of their 
lamented representative should be interred in the new cemetery, 
and that a monument should be erected over them, recording the 
melancholy event, and rendering a well-deserved tribute to his 
memory. A meeting of gentlemen accordingly took place at the 
Town Hall, on Thursday, to consider of the subject; and the 
following requisition to the Mayor was unanimously agreed 
upon : — 

We, the undersigned, respectfully request that you, as the official organ 
of the inhabitants of Liverpool, will make an immediate application to the 
friends of our late lamented Representative, requesting that his remains 
may be interred within the precincts of this town, in which his distinguished 
public worth and private virtue secured for him the respect and esteem of 
the whole community. 

To this requisition, the names of two hundred and sixty-four 
most respectable and influential gentlemen were immediately 
attached. The request was promptly acceded to ; and the Rev. 
J. Brooks, the Rector, was desired to proceed to Eccles, to see 
Mrs. Huskisson or her friends upon the subject. 

The idea of Mr. Huskisson's interment at Liverpool had been 
already broken to Mrs. Huskisson ; but she had expressed the 
strongest repugnance to such an arrangement. All her own 
wishes naturally pointed to Eartham ; and it was only through 
the powerful arguments, and strong representations of Lord 



THE RIGHT HONOURABLE WILLIAM HUSKlSSON. 297 

Granville, that she was at last prevailed upon to sacrifice her 
own feelings, and to yield to the request of the inhabitants of 
Liverpool. Never was a sacrifice of private feelings more hon- 
ourably and solemnly requited. It was forcibly remarked, at the 
time, that if any thing could supersede the necessity of drawing a 
character of Mr. Huskisson, it was to be found in the circum- 
stance of his funeral. It spoke volumes. A community attended 
it composed entirely of active, intelligent individuals, who, of all 
others, are best able to appreciate the merits of a man ruling and 
regulating the destinies of a commercial people, and that commu- 
nity, consisting of a hundred and fifty thousand individuals, de- 
ploring his loss with a grief as intense and real as is occasioned 
by the severing of kindred ties. 

The following characters of Mr. Huskisson are taken from the 
Annual Obituary, and an anonymous work, called " Babylon the 
Great." It should be observed, that the latter work was pub- 
lished early in 1825, consequently, prior to the delivery of most 
of those speeches on which Mr. Huskisson's fame, as a practical 
debater, principally rests. 

" Of eloquence, in the ordinary sense of the term, Mr. Huskisson 
had but little. He could neither gripe, nor hold fast the heart, like Mr. 
Brougham, by the irresistible energy of his appeals, nor could he 
plesise the ear and the fancy, with the nicely modulated language, and 
the effervescing wit of Mr. Canning. Yet not even the former, in his 
most solemn adjuration, nor the latter, in his happiest flight, ever com- 
manded the attention of his hearers more completely than Mr. Hus- 
kisson. He was never unprepared, whatever might be the subject of 
discussion ; and it was not in set harangues only that he excelled — he 
was a clear and able debater. When he first entered upon his sub- 
ject, his manner was cold, almost heavy; his intonation equable, 
almost monotonous : he had no peculiar grace of action. The secret 
of his oratory lay in the facility with which he could bring a number 
of facts to bear upon his argument, and in the soundness and compre- 
hensiveness of his views. He was not an opponent with whom it was 
difficult to grapple ; for he disdained all slippery arts of avoiding an 
antagonist : but he was one whom the stoutest champion found it im- 
possible to throw. To the matter-of-fact arguer, Mr Huskisson could 
present an accumulation of details, sufficient to stagger the most prac- 
tical ; while to him who looked to rules rather than cases, he could 
offer general principles, conceived in so large a spirit, that even in his 
dry and unadorned enunciation of them, they rose tq solemnity, 



298 BIOGRAPHICAL MEMOIR OF 

Nothing could be finer than the splendid perorations of his more ela- 
borate speeches. It was by the combination of an attention so accu- 
rate, that the most minute objection did not escape his vigilance, and a 
judgment so comprehensive, that the greatest could not elude its 
grasp, coupled with habits of unremitting industry, and perfect integ- 
rity of purpose, that Mr, Huskisson, on every question of complication 
and importance, reigned almost undisputed in the House of Commons. 
Irresistible as it generally proved, no one, however, dreaded its power. 
He convinced or he silenced; but he never irritated. His peculiar 
calmness of temper kept him from indulging in sarcasm. He seldom 
uttered an ill-natured word, because he was seldom influenced by an 
ill-natured feeling." 

In the Parlianaentary Portraits, contained in the second-named 
work, after describing Mr. Canning, the author thus introduces 
Mr. Huskisson : — 

" You may observe the glorious Gothic head of his most profound 
coadjutor. It is a plain head ; and small labour of the barber has been 
bestowed on the outside. I know not whether he may be a phrenolo- 
gist, though I should rather imagine that he knows the whim, and 
laughs at it ; certainly he seems to stand less in awe of phrenological 
criticism than any member of the House : who could, if he chose, 
command sufficient pilosity for a screen for his hair, is cropped as close 
as that of a ploughman. This circumstance increases the size of his 
tace, especially his forehead ; and gives him when the light does not 
fall, so as to bring out the acute lines and wonderful indications of 
depth upon it, an air which you would be apt to call common-place, if 
not heavy. 

Mr. Huskisson is altogether the most difficult character in the whole 
House to manage. There is nothing in his appearance, his manner, 
or his speaking, upon which you can hitch even the slightest de- 
scriptive figure ; and if it were possible to disembody sheer politi- 
cal intellect, and leave it without any of the trappings of ornament, 
that would be the nearest approach to a likeness of this most plain, 
but profound member of St. Stephen's. Mr. Huskisson's bearing is 
remarkably shrewd and firm; and, though he deals not much either 
in irony or declamation— and the less he deals in them the better— he 
occasionally sends forth a look, while some pretender is uttering a 
truism with oracular gravity, which is more cutting and corrective 
than any commentary in words. He is very unassuming, but withal 
so self-possessed and so decided, that you do not need to be told, that 
he has examined, with the eye of a true philosopher, all the bearings 
of the subject that comes before the House. His voice is against him, 
for it is feeble without softness ; and he gains nothing either by show 



THE RIGHT HONOURABLE WILLIAM HUSKISSON. 299 

or fluency of language : but still the impression which he leaves upon 
your mind is, that he has more expansion and depth of intellect, and 
more range and inflexibility of purpose, than any man within the 
same walls." 

To these we are tempted to add one more extract. It is from the 
Liverpool Journal, of the 18th of September. 

" Politics, this week, must give place to an expression of sorrow for 
the melancholy event which has deprived commerce of her best friend, 
Liverpool of an honest representative, and the empire of a statesman, 
who has lefl; behind him no equal. 

" The disastrous details of Mr. Huskisson's death will be found in 
another part of our paper ; and the heart saddens into inexpressible 
grief to find one of " earth's great spirits" cut off in the moment of 
exultation ; and though there was " reckoning made," the event was, 
alas, sudden enough to be pronounced awful. The survivors, how- 
ever, are more deserving of sympathy than the departed. He could 
aflford to die much better than we could afford to lose him ; and it 
must have soothed his manly spirit, in the last agonies of existence, 
to know that he encountered death in endeavouring to forward the 
interest of that commerce which he had lived to promote. A nation, 
he knew, would mourn his loss, and his constituents do honour to 
his memory. We trust his remains, as has been suggested, will be 
deposited in the St. James's Cemetery. The public, we know, will re- 
joice in the opportunity of testifying their veneration, by erecting a 
suitable monument. 

" Mr. Huskisson was truly one of the nobles of nature. He achieved 
greatness by mental exertions ; and his name is endearing, because 
it was attained by those patriot services which are identified with 
revolutions in political science. He taught nations the way to be 
wisely great ; and, in bursting the shackles which restrained the ener- 
gies of Trade, gave a mighty impulse at once both to industry and 
mind. Mr. Huskisson was not one of those fortunate politicians who 
are prematurely thrust into power. Though early dignified by the 
friendship of Mr. Dundas, he seems to have wanted those qualities 
that conciliate the great. The praise of usefulness could not be de- 
nied to him ; but his colleagues were slow to recognize in him the 
attributes which, at a later period, rendered him so formidable to his 
opponents in the House of Commons. With an unostentatious pa- 
triotism, he was content to suggest measures, and allow others the 
applause; and that political humility must have been great which 
could endure in silence to hear awarded to less talented co-operators 
the praise which of right did not belong to them. The capacity of his 
mind was large, and, in its comprehension, looked abroad with phi- 



300 BIOGRAPHICAL MEMOIR OF 

losophic liberality, neglectful of self, and solicitous only for the estab- 
lishment of truth. There was nothing narrow in his views. His 
policy was marked by a generous philanthropy, that contemplated 
man everywhere as a fellow-being ; and, knowing that we were in- 
tended for other purposes than those which arise out of warfare and 
enmity, he sought to establish a brotherhood of nations that could not 
fail to promote universal happiness, and increase still farther the 
greatness of his own country. 

" For what he has accomplished, the benedictions of the intelligent 
portion of the world will follow him to the grave ; and while men will 
bless his memory, the commercial world will lament that his life was 
not longer spared to consummate the great work he had so nobly 
begun." 

On his retirement from office, in 1801, Mr. Huskisson received 
a nominal pension of 1200/., but netting only 900/. a year, (contin- 
gent upon his not holding any office of that value) with a remainder 
of 615/. to Mrs. Huskisson, to commence from his death. He 
was subsequently appointed Colonial Agent for the island of Cey- 
lon, the salary of which was at first 800/. a year, but was after- 
wards raised, by the voluntary act of the island, to 1200/. a year, 
as a special remuneration for his valuable services. When placed 
at the head of the Board of Trade, he considered an agency as 
incompatible with that high appointment, and resigned. Before 
Lord Liverpool's political demise, he had, unsolicited, given 
instructions that Mr. Huskisson should be designated for one of 
the six pensions of 3000/. which, by Act ofParliament, the Crown 
is empowered to bestow on persons who have served particular 
offices for a certain period : and, on his final removal from go- 
vernment, in 1828, he entered upon the receipt of this pension, in 
which his former one, of course, merged. 

" In private," says the writer from whom we have abridged this 
sketch, " Mr. Huskisson's character will challenge the closest 
scrutiny. There, even calumny is silent. Those who profess 
not to number themselves among his political admirers, admit 
the kindness of his nature, the integrity of his conduct, and the 
purity of his mind ; while they bear undisputed testimony to the 
charm of his manners in social intercourse. There was, never- 
theless, in ordinary society, if nothing arose to call him forth, a 
degree of restraint, almost of coldness, in his demeanour, which 
did not at first prepossess in his favour, and which caused many 



THE RIGHT HONOURABLE WILLIAM HUSKISSON. 301 

to feel a difficulty in making his acquaintance, and led them to 
a wrong estimate of his character and his disposition. But this 
difficulty once mastered — the ice once broken — no one was more 
delightful, no one possessed greater attraction; and all impres- 
sions of reserve or of indiflerence vanished before the rapid 
transitions of intellectual expression which lit up his countenance 
as he conversed, the tone of his voice, and the peculiar sweet- 
ness of his smile. Constitutionally averse from all display, 
his manner was chiefly captivating from the indulgent kindness, 
the easy gaiety, and the unaffected simplicity with which he laid 
aside all traces of the statesman, and identified himself with the 
pursuits, the interests, and the feelings of others. Fond of society, 
he was courted and esteemed by all who knew him ; and he 
lived in habits of intimacy and friendship with the most eminent 
persons of all parties, uninterrupted by any difference of political 
opinion. But it was in the narrowest and inmost circle of do- 
mestic life — in the company of his most intimate friends, and 
around his own fireside, that all the beauties of his mind, and all 
the charms of his nature could alone be appreciated. It was 
there that the feelings of affection towards him were sublimed, 
(if the expression may be pardoned), by the admiration of his 
superior endowments; it was there that the sweetness of his 
temper, and the benevolence which beamed in his eye, and 
marked every sentiment which fell from his lips, were irresistibly 
felt and acknowledged. Whether estimated as a husband, rela- 
tion, or friend — as a magistrate, a landlord, or a master, he de- 
served and secured unbounded love, respect, and confidence. 
Charitable without ostentation, his purse was ever open to the 
calls of distress. No misery was suffered to exist in the village 
where he resided : the President of the Board of Trade or the 
Secretary of State never refused his assistance or advice towards 
adjusting the disputes, or arranging the difficulties, of his humble 
neighbours. None ever left his door unrelieved, and none ever 
received from him a harsh word. Such was he whom it has 
been attempted to paint in the most repulsive colours — to repre- 
sent as indifferent to the wants and sufferings of his fellow-crea- 
tures — as ready to view the misery of thousands unmoved, for 
the sake of an experiment in political economy." 
26 



SELECT SPEECHES 



THE RIGHT HONOURABLE 



WILLIAM HUSKISSON 

303 



LIST OF SELECT SPEECHES 
FROM HUSKISSON. 



Agricultural Distress, Page 307 

Mr. Western's Motion respecting Cash Payments, 331 

Usury Laws Repeal Bill, 356 

Alteration in the Laws relating to the Silk Trade, 359 

Exposition of the Foreign Commercial Policy of the Country, - - 376 

Combination Laws, 400 

Roman Catholic Relief Bill, 414 

Bank Charter and Promissory Notes Acts, 423 

Effects of the Free Trade System, 437 

Navigation of the United Kingdom, 477 

Joint Stock Companies of 1824, 1825, and 1826, 515 

Battle of Navarin, 519 

Civil Government of Canada, 531 

American Tariffs, 553 

East Retford Disfranchisement Bill, 559 

British Political and Commercial Relations with Mexico, - - - 570 

Exposition of the State of the Country, 583 

Jews Relief Bill, 609 

Monument to Mr. Watt, 613 

26* 2 305 



SPEECHES 

OF 

THE RIGHT HONOURABLE 

WILLIAM HUSKISSON 



AGRICULTURAL DISTRESS, 

AND THE FINANCIAL MEASURES FOR ITS RELIEF. 

FEBRUARY 15, 1822. 

This day the Marquis of Londonderry called the attention of the House to 
the subject of the existing Agricultural Distress, and entered into a detail of 
the Financial Measures which it was the intention of his Majesty's Govern- 
ment to submit to Parliament for its Relief. The noble Marquis concluded by 
moving, " that returns be laid upon the table, of the revenue and expenditure, 
exclusive of the funded and unfunded debt, for the year ending the 5th of 
January 1821, together with similar accounts for the year ending the 5th of 
January 1822 ;" and he gave notice that he would in a few days move for the 
revival of the Agricultural Committee, and that the Chancellor of the Ex- 
chequer would bring forward a measure for enabling the Bank to issue four 
millions on Exchequer Bills, in loans to different parishes, and would also 
submit a proposition for reducing the present amount of the duty on Malt. 
After M. Brougham had entered into an examination of the proposed measure, 

Mr. HusKTSsojf rose. He began by remarking, that the motion 
then before the House was simply for an account, to the produc- 
tion of which there could be no possible objection. But inasmuch 
as the comprehensive speech of his noble friend, who had intro- 
duced that motion, necessarily embraced topics similar to those 
which had been brought under the view of the House by an 
honourable and learned gentleman* on a preceding day, and again 
that evening, the present discussion might be considered in the 
light of an adjourned debate upon the nature and causes of the 
present distress. He was the more at liberty to look at it in that 
point of view, without violating either the forms or the rules of 
the House, as the honourable and learned gentleman's motion, on 

* Mr. Brougham. ,„ 



308 AGRICULTURAL DISTRESS— 

Monday last, had been met, and most properly disposed of, not 
upon its merits, but by the previous question. That motion, how- 
ever, had answered the honourable and learned gentleman's pur- 
pose. It enabled him to range over the whole manor of political 
economy, to fire his shots at random, and then to-day, when the 
minister of the Crown was obliged to go over the same beat, the 
honourable and learned gentleman came forward, in no very 
sportsman-like manner, to claim as his own the fruits of the noble 
lord's more steady pursuit. That the honourable and learned 
gentleman, however, was mistaken in supposing that the noble 
lord's plans had been changed, in consequence of his speech, he 
could assure him, from his own personal knowledge ; but, inde- 
pendently of his assertion, he would leave to the House to deter- 
mine, considering the circumstances under which the honourable 
and learned gentleman had made his motion, whether it was not 
more probable that the object of his speech had been to anticipate 
the measures of government, than that those measures, adopted 
after long and mature deliberation, had been altered to accommo- 
date themselves to the impression made by the speech of the 
honourable and learned member. 

Leaving him, however, in the enjoyment of his fancied triumph, 
he should think himself at liberty, in rising to state his own view 
of our present difficulties, to refer also to the honourable and 
learned member's speech of the former night, as far as it related 
to the subject of the present discussion. He felt this to be the 
more necessary, whatever might be the indiscretion of entering 
upon so wide a field, and the indisposition of the House to attend 
to matters necessarily dry and uninviting, as he had never heard 
a speech more abounding in mistaken assertions, more fraught 
with erroneous principles and contradictory inferences, more 
pregnant with alarm, mischief and danger, or more calculated to 
mislead the judgment by a delusive appeal to the prejudices and 
sufferings of the people; and to hurry parliament itself into a 
course which, if once entered upon, it would be too late to retrace, 
however much they might afterwards deplore their error. He 
did not ascribe this character to the honourable and learned gen- 
tleman's views, under the influence of party spirit — far from it ; 
his wish was, as much as possible, to keep the mighty interests 
at stake out of the range of party feeling. Looking to the com- 
plicated relationships existing between the landed interest and all 
the other great interests of the country, and to the manifold diffi- 
culties of the subject, he could wish gentleme.n to come to its 
examination in that House as calmly and dispassionately as they 
would to a similar discussion in the closet. This was the course 
which he was determined to pursue, stating fearlessly his own 
impressions, with the greatest deference certainly to the judgment 



MEASURES FOR ITS RELIEF, 309 

of Others with whom he had the misfortune to differ, either in or 
out of parUament, but without any personal consideration, except 
that of regret at the existence of any such difference between 
their sentiments and his own. 

When the subject to be considered is the present distress, it is 
natural to look back to periods of past distress, in the hope that, 
by a reference to former sufferings, some useful lessons of expe- 
rience, some valuable inferences, and some monitory cautions 
may be derived, to serve as a guide to carry us through the straits 
and difficulties of the present moment. Without going into a long 
detail, or to remote events, he could wish gentlemen to bear in 
mind that, in most instances of former severe distress, we have 
had to encounter evils (and those evils attended with symptoms 
and dangei-s), which fortunately do not press upon us at this 
moment. Let them recall to their recollection the heart-rending 
accounts which, on former occasions, have reached us from the 
population of our manufacturing and trading districts. How long 
is it since the House was told, and told with too much truth, that 
a considerable proportion of those condensed masses of the people 
were destitute of employment or resource, almost perishing in the 
streets for want of food or clothing, having sold piece-meal their 
furniture to sustain life ; that the manufactories were closed, the 
prisons overflowing, the work-houses crowded to excess, the 
shipping of the country unemployed and rotting in port ? It is 
impossible to have forgotten the period when, in those districts, 
misery was so general and so urgent, that neither the compulsory 
levies of the poor-rates, nor the liberal aid of voluntary benevo- 
lence, could adequately administer to its relief; when that misery, 
goaded on by public agitators, was rushing into acts of desplera- 
tion; when life and property were equally insecure — at least, 
when they could not be protected by the ordinary administration 
of law ; and when expensive military precautions and new laws 
became, therefore, necessary to preserve the public peace. 

What, in those perilous times which followed so rapidly upon 
the restoration of peace, was the language of the same men, who 
had so steadily and systematically foretold the defeat and humilia- 
tion of our arms during the whole progress of the war ? The 
trade of foreign prophecy was fortunately at an end, but faithful 
to their vocation, they entered upon the new field opened to them 
by our domestic difficulties. These difficulties, we were told, 
were the necessary consequences of taxation and high prices — 
that we had saved Europe, that we had acquired mititary glory 
indeed, but that the price had been the ruin of England — that in 
this country the expense of living was so great, that we could no 
longer manufacture or navigate in competition with other nations 
— that our manufacturing and trading capitals would seek employ. 



310 AGRICULTURAL DISTRESS— 

ment in less burthened countries — that the nniddle classes would 
migrate to live cheaper and better abroad, and that the bulk of 
our industrious population would in consequence be left destitute 
from want of employment. 

The manufacturing population, assured by these prophets of 
misfortune, that their then misery was only the beginning of the 
still greater privations which awaited them, were further told, 
that the magnitude of the public debt was the foundation of all 
the evils under which they laboured — that this debt was the crea- 
ture of a corrupt parliament; and that the alternative was, on 
the one hand, ruin and starvation, or on the other, the annihila- 
tion of the " pretended national debt," and a radical reform of the 
House of Commons. These were the only remedies at that time ; 
they are the only remedies of the same class of politicians for 
our agricultural difficulties at the present moment. If any one 
doubt this, let him compare the proceedings of all the popular 
meetings about four years ago, in the manufacturing parts of the 
kingdom, with the speeches at several of the meetings lately called 
in the agricultural districts. He will find in both cases the same 
doctrines inculcated, in many instances too, by the same indi- 
viduals, and adopted by those who listened to them, as the panacea 
for all their difficulties. 

But our manufacturing distress was attended with alarming 
symptoms, which excited apprehension even among men not 
given to despond. Consumption had diminished, and was rapidly 
diminishing — the revenue was falling off from week to week, and 
from quarter to quarter — public credit was very low — private 
credit out of the question, upon the best securities, within the 
limits of legal interest. These certainly were indications of the 
country being in a labouring, if not in a declining state. The 
argument, therefore, of those who took a gloomy view of our 
affairs was at least intelligible, and the conclusion consistent with 
the argument, although in the degree it might be pushed too far. 
In substance the argument was this — taxation has a tendency to 
raise prices, the rise of prices to render labour dear, and dear 
labour to drive capital to seek more profitable employment else- 
where. But that taxation can be the cause of low prices, and 
above all, of the present low price of articles of universal demand 
and consumption, in respect of which the grower has the monopoly 
of the home market, is one of the strangest paradoxes which the 
wit of man ever devised. 

After this retrospect to the remedies proposed for the late dis- 
tress in the manufacturing and trading districts, it is natural to 
ask, has the national debt been annihilated 1 Has the parliament 
been re-modelled 1 Has the sinking fund been taken away 1 Have 
taxes been repealed ? Or, without recurring to any of these ex- 



MEASURES FOR ITS RELIEF. 311 

pedients, have the glut and stagnation ceased ? Has nnanufactur- 
ing industry recovered? Has public credit been improved? Is 
private credit flourishing? Is the revenue progressively grovi^ing 
better ? Is the population of Lancashire, Yorkshire, and the 
other manufacturing counties fully employed, cheerful, loyal, 
obedient to the laws, contented and happy ? Has their increased 
ability to provide for their wants led to an increase of consump- 
tion, and is increasing consumption every day operating to relieve 
us from the excess of raw produce which now gluts our markets 1 

This is not mere theory or speculation. The proofs of this 
happy change are to be found in facts and figures, which cannot 
deceive, though the honourable and learned gentleman, in talking 
of consumption and revenue, hinted an opinion, that the increase 
could not be real ; for which, however, he could state no better 
reason than this, that it did not accord with his preconceived 
theory, or his preconceived appeal to the feelings of the suffering 
part of the community. Better and more just would have been 
the application of his eloquence had he said to the landed interest, 
" In the present contented and improved condition of these popu- 
lous districts, in the diminution of crime and misery, in the ease 
with which the. laws are administered, in the security and peace 
which the manufacturers now enjoy, in their growing prosperity, 
and in the cessation of all the anxiety, expense and danger which 
attended their former state, there is something which has a ten- 
dency to compensate to your better feelings, at least, for the 
depression under which you now labour; and be assured, the 
improved condition of these classes, and their augmented means 
of consumption, are the sure harbingers of an improvement in 
your own situation." 

The temporary calamities brought upon the country by the late 
stagnation of our manufactures, have been attended with this 
good efiect : — that, in seeking for remedies, the public mind of the 
country, and the mind of parliament, have been turned to the 
merits of what has been called our mercantile system, with its 
balance of trade, its balance of prohibitions and protections, and 
checks and bounties, and all the complicated and confused 
machinery by which the interests of commerce have been impeded 
instead of being promoted : that in both Houses of parliament we 
have had committees to investigate the merits of that system, and 
that the result of their inquiriesr aided by discussions out of doors, 
has been the diffusion of more liberal and enlightened 'views upon 
these important points. Already we have seen the fruits of these 
researches in the measures proposed last session by the Chairman 
of the Committee of Foreign Trade,* for the gradual relaxation 

* Mr. Wallace. 



312 AGRICULTURAL DISTRESS— 

of this system of restraint : — a relaxation which, besides its imme- 
diate benefits, in muhiplying the enjoyments and extending the 
intercourse of civilized society, would be attended with the future 
advantage of abating those grounds of national jealousies and 
irritation which have too frequently arisen between this and other 
states on commercial questions — of leading us and them to form 
a juster estimate of those causes of hostility which, during the 
last century, were too often engendered by those jealousies and 
irritations, and thereby (co-operating with the general progress 
of knowledge, and the increasing control which public opinion 
exercises over the conduct even of despotic governments) to 
render that greatest of all calamities, war, less frequent in the 
world. 

In like manner there is reason to hope, that the difficulties of 
the present time have tended, through the investigation in parlia- 
ment and discussions out of doors, and will still further conduce, 
to remove many of the prejudices and errors which have existed 
on the subject of the Corn Laws. The ultimate result, he trusted, 
would be such an alteration in those laws as would protect both 
the grower and the consumer from the evils to which they are 
alternately Uable under the present system. 

If it can now ho longer be denied, that the manufacturing dis- 
tress of the years 1816 and 1817 was produced by previous over- 
trading, combined with the altered value of the currency; it 
remains to be seen, whether causes, in a great degree similar, 
have not mainly contributed to the present depression of our agri- 
culture. The excess of supply in all the principal markets proves 
the redundancy of produce ; and that redundancy, together with 
the improved value of money, is quite sufficient to account for 
the present low prices. That this superabundant production is 
of our own growth is also undeniable. To this state the country 
has been gradually approaching for many years. At the breaking 
out of the war in 1793, our average growth of corn was certainly 
below our consumption. The waste of war, the great purchases 
of government, and the difficulties which a state of hostility threw 
in the way of the foreign supply, by enhancing the price of im- 
ported corn, gave the first stimulus to an extension of our own 
cultivation. That stimulus was greatly aided by the bad harvests 
which preceded the first stoppage of the Bank in 1797, and by 
the still more deficient crops which followed that event, in 1799 
and 1800. Before the latter period the diminishing value of 
money, consequent upon the restriction of cash payments, afford- 
ed great additional encouragement and facility to the ardent spirit 
of speculation which natural causes had already created in agri- 
culture. Tliis artificial excitement continued to operate so long 



MEASURES FOR ITS RELIEF. 313 

as the value of money continued to decrease, that is, till the con- 
clusion of the war. 

That excessive speculation is one of the concomitant evils of 
any system which rapidly lowers the value of money, is an unde- 
niable proposition. In what manner this effect is produced by 
depreciation is a question which may be passed over in this dis- 
cussion ; but its consequences may be traced in the present glut 
of produce. It is the cumulative result of the facility with which 
money or credit was procured to bring barren tracts into cultiva- 
tion, and to draw a greater produce from lands previously culti- 
vated. If in both these pursuits speculation has been carried too 
far, the consequences must be the same as in over-manufacturing 
and over-trading — to the speculators a loss — to the consumers, 
the temporary benefit of prices lower than those at which their 
wants can be permanently supplied — that the latter will be able 
to consume somewhat more, and the former disabled or deterred 
from producing as much as heretofore, until the supply adjusts 
itself to the demand. There is, however, in this respect, one 
material difference between manufactures and agriculture greatly 
to the disadvantage of the latter. Capitals embarked in the cul- 
tivation of the soil are more slow in producing the expected 
returns, and cannot so easily be withdrawn, or turned into some 
other channel of employment. Should the seasons continue 
favourable, the glut in agriculture, therefore, may be of longer 
duration than in other branches of our national industry, and the 
more so, as it is an excess no part of which is likely to find a 
vent in exportation. 

If no alteration had been made in our corn trade with Ireland, 
probably the pressure of this glut might never have been felt, or 
felt only in a very slight degree, by the English grower. He did 
not anticipate the immense change which had been produced by 
the law of 1806. His improvements proceeded upon calculations 
which did not allow for the prolific powers of the more fertile 
soils of Ireland. He did not foresee that by the time those expen- 
sive improvements would be in their full bearing, we should be 
furnished with an annual supply from that country, exceeding the 
average import of foreign corn from all parts of the world before 
the introduction of that law. This, however, is the fact. The 
present depression is the result of the competition created by an 
excess in both countries — a competition the more severely felt by 
both, as they have to struggle at the same time with the increased 
value of money. 

The corn bill of 1815, however well intended, has certainly 

contributed to aggravate the present distress. It was passed under 

an impression of the inability of this country to raise corn enough 

for its own consumption. The effect of that impression was a 

27 2P 



314 AGRICULTURAL DISTRESS— 

pretty general belief, confirmed by the decided opinions of great 
authorities who opposed the bill in both Houses of parliament, 
that the import price of eighty shillings a quarter would thence- 
forward be the minimum price of wheat in England. The con- 
sequence was, that prospective calculations, either of improve- 
ment, or for the letting of land, were formed very much upon 
these assumptions ; and as the import price was stated to be the 
lowest price, which, according to the doctrine of that day, would 
remunerate the British grower, it was considered that up to eighty 
shillings remuneration was secured, and all above it would be 
profit. The calculation would not have been disappointed, had 
the data been correct, but the country was then rapidly advancing 
to a state in which its produce would exceed its consumption ; 
and the erroneous consequences of this calculation, joined to two 
or three productive harvests, have led to the present depression. 
If any man can doubt that excessive production has materially 
contributed to the fall of prices, let him compare the quantity of 
corn sent for sale to Mark-lane, and to every other principal 
market in the kingdom, for the last twelve, and still more for the 
last six months, with the quantity sent at any former periods of 
corresponding duration. Low price might be the effect of the 
increased value of money unaided by other causes ; but increased 
quantity does not depend upon the alteration in the currency. A 
constantly overwhelming supply, concomitant with an increased 
consumption (and both these facts admit of positive proof), kept 
up for a considerable period, can only be the effect of redundance. 
It is true that the supply may lately have been somewhat accele- 
rated by the poverty of many of the farmers. This may have 
been the case for a few months after the harvest. But the average 
quantity for a whole year cannot be influenced by this temporary 
cause. It can only be explained by a general excess of produc- 
tion, of the extent of which some idea may be formed from the 
fact, that the whole supply in Mark-lane, for the last year, has 
exceeded by nearly one-third the supply of the year preceding, 
and that in the last quarter the quantity has been very nearly 
double that of the quantity in the corresponding period of the last 
year. This excess of production has been the subject of niuch 
idle declamation at meetings out of doors. It has been said, 
" who ever heard of plenty as an evil, or of a people brought to 
the brink of ruin by abundance ?" Plenty has never been described 
as an abstract or general evil, or the whole nation as distressed 
by abundance. The possession of this blessing brings with it 
innumerable comforts and advantages to the consumer. Cheapness 
is the effect of plenty, and if that cheapness be now in part at the 
expense of the grower, is he to repine at the bounty of Provi- 
dence, because it is the natural order of things that his speculation. 



MEASURES FOR ITS RELIEF. 315 

like all others, is liable to temporary excess and derangement ? — 
or if not privileged against the course of nature, is he alone to be 
indemnified at the expense of the community, against tiie occa- 
sional contingencies in a great degree brought upon himself by 
the effect of those very corn laws to which he has resorted for 
his own special protection ? Can a provident legislature yield to 
such an expectation 1 Will it not rather say to the agricuUurist, 
as to any other speculator, "whatever we may feel for your dis- 
appointment, every man must abide the event of his own calcu- 
lations." 

If, however, upon some mistaken principle, a positive monopoly 
of the corn market is habitually to be preserved to the British 
grower, and the people to be precluded from resorting to foreign 
supply, except occasionally to guard themselves against existing 
dearth, then, indeed, it may be a question, whether for the interest 
of the people themselves, the inconveniences of this vicious sys- 
tem, alternately visiting the grower and the consumer, may not 
in some degree be palliated by other artificial expedients, though 
in principle scarcely less objectionable than the system itself If 
the tendency of excess, in working its own cure, be to produce 
deficiency; and if both excess and deficiency be hable to be 
aggravated by the fluctuations of the seasons, it may be deserving 
of consideration, whether, in the present state of our corn laws, 
some remedy for the former, and some guard against the latter, 
may not be found in the plan of a bounty upon the warehousing 
of British corn, suggested by the noble marquis, when the markets 
should be glutted, and corn below a certain price. A moderate 
sacrifice for this purpose may perhaps tend to prevent extreme 
depression at one time, and extreme dearness at another ; and by 
the latter advantage compensate to the consumer in seasons of 
scarcity, the benefit conferred upon the grower in seasons of 
redundancy. A bounty of this description would be more fair, 
in reference to the different classes of the community, as well as 
less expensive to the state, than the old system of a bounty upon 
exportation ; but still it is a measure which, if possible, should be 
avoided. It will be for the House hereafter to consider, whether 
it be not a wiser course to revise a defective law, by getting rid 
of its acknowledged evils, rather than to leave them in full ope- 
ration, for the chance or expectation of trying how far they can 
be obviated by a counteracting expedient ; of which the best that 
can be said is, that if we are to continue to labour under the dis- 
ease, that expedient may possibly prove, if not an antidote, at least 
a palliative, of some of its worst consequences. 

Before he proceeded to offer a few remarks on the state of the 
Currency, as connected with the present distress, he felt it neces- 
sary to advert to the honourable and learned gentleman's griev- 



316 AGRICULTURAL DISTRESS— 

ance, that he had not been placed upon the Bank Committee of 
1819. From the moving accents and subdued tone, in which the 
honourable and learned gentleman complained of the refusal 
which he had met with on that occasion, he felt, if not compas- 
sion for the honourable and learned gentleman's disappointment, 
at least regret for the omission of his name ; especially when he 
mysteriously hinted, that, had he been upon that committee, all 
the inconveniences and pressure which have resulted from the 
resumption of cash payments might have been greatly palliated, 
if not altogether avoided. After this declaration, he had hstened 
with more than ordinary attention to all that had fallen from the 
honourable and learned gentleman, expecting every moment the 
solution of this mysterious intimation, and to find himself, and 
those who laboured with him in the committee, overwhelmed with 
compunction for having ventured upon a Report, without the 
benefit of the honourable and learned gentleman's counsel and 
assistance. But, after many circumlocutions, the only light which 
the honourable and learned gentleman had thrown upon the sub- 
ject was this, " that the evil, after all, was the departing from the 
standard in 1797." Wonderful discovery! What an Iliad of woes 
might have been saved to this country, if those words, instead 
of escaping from the lips of the honourable and learned member 
in 1822, could have found vent in 1819 ! 

But when the honourable and learned member did at last come 
forward, at the twelfth hour, with his marvellous proposition, not 
more astounding from its immediate practical importance, than 
new as a discovery, he seemed conscious that a heavy responsi- 
bility might be cast upon him, on the score of public duty, for 
having kept the secret so long in his own bosom. He felt that it 
might have been divulged, if not to the Committee up stairs, at 
least to the House during the discussion of the Report, and the 
measures grounded upon it in 1819. He therefore very properly 
protected himself from this reproach, by reminding us, that he 
was prevented by illness from attending the House during those 
proceedings. The future philosopher, in reading the history of 
these eventful times, may find in this misfortune, as in the original 
stoppage of the Bank, a proof how much the misery or happiness 
of nations turns upon some accident not much noticed at the 
time, because its influence for good or evil is not then foreseen. 
For ourselves of the present day, we may deplore the tardiness 
of the honourable and learned gentleman in promulgating his 
discovery ; but that feeling will now be as unavailing to relieve 
the distresses of the country, as the regret with which we have 
all heard of that most inopportune illness, by the eflTect of which 
we were unfortunately deprived of that discovery at the critical 
period of 1819. 



MEASURES FOR ITS RELIEF. 317 

In the honourable and learned gentleman's view of the causes 
of our present difficulties, it suits his purpose to lay great stress 
upon the fluctuations of the currency, and he has given us many 
calculations, not very new, to show the extent of the depreciation 
at different periods. To prove that during a great part of the 
war the currency was really depreciated is now become unneces- 
sary. The fact is admitted, and the arguments and principles of 
those who contended for it in 1810, are no longer controverted. 
But it ts rather curious that the new converts, those who stoutly 
denied depreciation when it most glaringly existed, should now 
be the most strenuous to exaggerate the extent to which it was 
then carried. When gold was at 5/. an ounce, the mortgagee, 
the annuitant, the public creditor, were told that they had nothing 
to complain of; and now they are told by the same parties, that 
they are only entitled to three-fourths of their nominal claims; 
and for this curious reason, that they are at last relieved from the 
loss which they sustained, for many years, from having been paid 
their incomes in money depreciated twenty-five per cent. But 
this is an exaggerated statement of their loss. There can be no 
other measure of their loss from depreciation, than the excess of 
the market above the standard or coinage price of gold, and if 
this be taken as the measure, the average of the whole period 
between 1797 and 1819 would not amount to near twenty-five 
per cent. It did not exceed five, as has been justly observed by 
the honourable member for Portarlington,* at the date of Mr. 
Peel's bill. But then we must not confound depreciation with a 
diminution in the value of money. Quite independent of natural 
causes, such as an increased supply of the precious metals, there 
may be a diminution in the value of money, and to a considerable 
extent, without its being depreciated ; and, in like manner, its 
value may increase without any alteration in the standard. Every 
contrivance which tends to economize the use of the precious 
metals, or to provide a substitute for them in the shape of volun- 
tary credit, tends to diminish the value of money. A diminution 
of value from these causes, involving no injustice to any one, is 
attended with great benefits to the community. Much of the 
prosperity of England, since the beginning of the late reign, may 
be ascribed to the legitimate contrivances, by which this diminu- 
tion was gradually effected and extended, in all the various modes 
of verbal, book, and circulating credits. This is one of the advan- 
tages of accumulating wealth, of stable institutions, and provident 
laws, affording a high degree of security to property in all its 
various modifications. 

But this diminution in the value of money could not be in pro- 

* Mr. Ricardo. 

27* 



318 AGRICULTURAL DISTRESS— 

gress in one country, without its being more or less felt by all; 
not only in proportion as other countries could avail themselves 
of the same means of credit and economy in the use of the pre- 
cious metals, but also because, in proportion to the gradual exten- 
sion of those means in any particular country, is that country 
enabled to dispense with a part of its metallic currency, which, 
diffusing itself over the circulation of the remainder of the world, 
tends everywhere to lower the value of gold and silver in relation 
to all other commodities. 

This may appear abstruse, but it is important to the understand- 
ing of the present subject. Before the Bank restriction, England 
had done much to economize the use of coin ; Scotland still more, 
and Ireland far less than England. In Ireland, gold was the prin- 
cipal medium of payments. In Scotland, where notes as low as 
one pound had long been in use, it entered for very little into the 
pecuniary transactions of the country. In England it still formed 
a considerable part of our circulation, there being then no circu- 
lating paper under five, and only to a small extent, under ten 
pounds. The first effect of the restriction was, to add to the 
paper circulation by enlarged issues, not only from the national 
banks of England and Ireland, but also from all the country 
banks. This addition continued gradually to increase, and espe- 
cially in the notes under five pounds. Every increase for the 
first two or three years was a diminution in the value of money, 
but not a depreciation. Why ? Because the gold left the country, 
as the paper became its substitute, and by this process, the 
exchanges were kept at or near par. The effect of this exporta- 
tion of our coin was everywhere to lower the value of money, 
and by so doing, to keep it upon a level with its diminished value 
in this country. 

In the progress of this operation the United Kingdom was 
drained of all its gold. There would, however, have been no real 
depreciation of the paper substituted in its stead, if, by imposing 
proper limits upon the issues of that paper, the par of exchange 
with foreign countries (which is necessarily equivalent with the 
standard of the gold coin in this country) had been made the 
criterion of its value. But the issues of paper not being confined 
within those limits, depreciation took place. 

The consequence, therefore, of the Bank restriction was two- 
fold ; — first, a diminution in the value of money generally, but 
without depreciation ; and secondly, a depreciation specially super- 
added in this country, the degree of which at any particular 
period was the difference between the standard and the market- 
price of gold. By the first result, the price of commodities, 
including of course all the raw productions of the soil, was raised 
generally. By the second, this general rise of prices was carried 



MEASURES FOR ITS RELIEF. 319 

Still further in this country, in proportion to the depreciation. Tlic 
actual depreciation, therefore, as it was not the sole cause of the 
rise of prices (speaking now of that rise only in as far as it was 
influenced by changes in the value of money) during the war, so 
it cannot be taken as the measure of the fall of prices since 1819, 
unless we could have got rid of the depreciation without recalling 
into our own use a part of the gold which had been exported, or 
in any degree diminishing the extent in which credit had become 
a substitute for actual payments. That fall must be still greater, 
if, instead of importing gold for circulation here, the greatest part 
of it has been withdrawn from circulation in other countries, to 
be buried in the vaults and cellars of the Bank. The proportion 
of the rise of prices generally during the war, and of fall since 
the peace, not in England only, but in all other countries, from 
these alternate operations, may be difficult to estimate ; but it must 
be considerable ; and the more so, as other countries, as well as 
England, had also a depreciated paper, and have since endeavour- 
ed to replace it by a metallic currency. 

But even diminution in the value of money, without deprecia- 
tion, and afterwards depreciation superadded, do not afford a just 
measure of the actual rise of prices, and especially of the rent of 
land in this country during the war. To these causes must be 
added the effect of excessive speculation. It is true that this ex- 
cessive s])eculation had its foundation in the diminishing value of 
money; but when the farmer had saved a few thousand pounds, 
was it not natural that he should wish to lay out his capital in the 
purchase of land, — that land upon which he had realized an in- 
dependence, and of which the rent and fee simple had at least 
doubled within his recollection 1 For the same reason, was it not 
natural that the landlord should grasp at every opportunity of 
adding to the number of his acres ; and that he again should be 
met in competition by the land-jobber, ready to adventure his 
capital in the same market, as affording the best prospect of 
assured future profit? In this state of general delusion, was it 
surprising that tenants were ready to embark in improvements 
and to take leases not founded upon the calculation even of 
existing prices, but in the sanguine hope of prospective profits, to 
be realized by a future rise before the end of their respective 
terms ? And what was the state of the money market whilst all 
this speculation was going on? With depreciation guarantied 
by law, the country banks had every facility to lend ; the farmer, 
the land-owner, the jobber, every temptation to borrow\ Can we 
wonder at the extent of the revulsion ? If we are unable to rescue 
many of its victims from the ruin which it has brought upon them, 
at least let it be a warning never to be forgotten, against any 
future tampering with the standard value of the currency. 



320 AGRICULTURAL DISTRESS— 

But, has nothing been omitted which was within our power, to 
mitigate the pressure arising from the restoration of our cur- 
rency? If the view and the principles which he had now sub- 
mitted be correct, he must say, that every thing which might have 
been done, had not been done, for that purpose. Looking with 
apprehension to the difEcuUy of reverting to a metahic currency, 
he had stated his suggestions more fully in the Bank committee. 
They did not differ very materially from those of the honourable 
member for Portarlington. It was his (Mr. Huskisson's) wish that 
we should have a gold coin, as a medium of small payments in 
the common ready-money dealings of the community, instead of 
the one-pound notes of the Bank of England ; and for reasons 
with which he would not trouble the House, he recommended 
that there should be a small seignorage taken upon that coin, as 
there is upon the silver, at least equal to the expense of coinage. 
The amount of such a coin requisite for the purposes which he 
had described would not be considerable, at the most seven or 
eight millions ; as it was no part of his plan to interfere with the 
circulation of country banks, except by such regulations and 
encouragement as might conduce to their increased stability and 
security. Beyond that amount of seven or eight millions, gold 
could be of no use in this country as coin, and the only other 
purpose for which it could be wanted was, as a check and regu- 
lator to maintain the standard of the currency. That standard, 
he agreed with the honourable member for Portarlington, would 
be most perfectly secured by the Bank paying its notes, not in 
coin, but in gold bullion at the price of 3/. 17s. \0\d. an ounce. 
The quantity requisite for this purpose, he also agreed with him, 
being only the amount requisite to balance the occasional fluctua- 
tions of the exchange, need not be large ; — an amount very con- 
siderably less than that which he apprehended was now hoarded 
by the Bank. 

Had this principle been acted upon, the foreign exchanges 
could not have been for more than two years constantly and 
greatly in favour of this country, — a proof, as is observed in the 
Report of the Agricultural Committee, that the value of money 
here has been kept artificially above the par of the increased value 
of the money of other countries ; for there is nothing which, in 
the natural state of things, finds its level with more celerity and 
ease than the course of exchanges between difl^erent countries. 
He was therefore warranted in concluding, that the pressure had 
been accelerated by the mode, and aggravated by the extent, of 
preparations made for giving effect to the Act of 1819. He was 
convinced this would be the case, from the moment the Bank, in 
that year, demanded a repayment from Government of ten mil- 
lions. He recollected it was the general opinion of the committee. 



MEASURES FOR ITS RELIEF. 321 

It was the opinion of his right honourable friend * the Chairman 
of that Committee, and was so stated in his speech when the 
Report was taken into consideration by the House. It was also 
the opinion of his noble friend, at the head of the Government,f 
stated in another place. In saying this, nothing could be further 
from his thoughts tJian to cast any reflection upon the conduct of 
ihe Bank. A heavy responsibility was imposed upon them, and if, 
in providing to meet it, they had erred at all, they had done so 
from an excess of precaution, from an over-anxiety to fulfil the 
commands of the law : — an error (if committed) into which it is 
the less surprising the Directors should have fallen, as their interest 
as a corporation was obviously the other way ; and "it is natural 
for men of high honour to arm themselves, sometimes perhaps 
too scrupulously, against the supposed influence of personal motives 
in the discharge of a great public duty. 

After what he had said, it was scarcely necessary to add, that 
he viewed with satisfaction the plan mentioned by his noble friendj 
of an issue of four millions of gold from the Bank upon the 
security of Exchequer bills. He took it as a kind of admission 
from the Bank, that they had now in their coffers gold, at least 
to that amount, more than was necessary, even in their cautious 
judgment, for protecting the credit of their notes, and, of course, 
more than was convenient for their own interest to retain. The 
effect of the operation, as he understood it, would be, to replace 
the circulation where it would have been, if, instead of a repay- 
ment of ten, the Bank had been satisfied with six millions from 
the public. In that case, their accumulated treasure w^ould pro- 
bably have been four millions less than it now is — at present they 
will re-issue to that amount. In whatever degree four millions 
withdrawn has straitened the circulation and added to the pres- 
sure, four millions restored will give relief Not that he ex- 
pected that the whole of the gold would remain in this country ; 
he knew it could not, but, by diffusing itself generally, it would 
everywhere have a tendency. to give ease and life to the labouring 
markets of the world, and by consequence, and at least in the 
same degree, to our own. What is most urgent is, to stop the 
progress of depression. That once effected, speculation, which 
is now in a manner dormant, will revive, and it is in this view, 
more than by its actual amount, that this operation of the Bank 
seems to hold out a prospect of reviving confidence and hope. 

He could have wished that, instead of being advanced to 
Government, this sum had been added to the amount of the dis- 
counts of the Bank. Such a proceeding would have been more 

* Mr. Peel. f The Earl of Liverpool. 

J Lord Londonderry. 

2Q 



322 AGRICULTURAL DISTRESS— 

conformable to the principles and object of that institution. It 
would not only have kept their issues more under their control, 
but would have afforded more relief to the public. It would have 
afforded more relief to the public, because the Bank has no 
means of increasing their discount to that amount, except by 
lowering the rate which they now charge for interest, lowering it 
from five to four, or possibly less, per cent. Why this should not 
be done, or why they should prefer lending to Government at 
three per cent, was to him inconceivable. The amount which it 
was safe' and prudent to advance, either to the state or to indi- 
viduals, was entirely their own consideration; but within that 
amount, he, as a member of Parliament, had a right to say, that 
under the present circumstances, discount w^as their prior duty. 

The Government disclaimed the advance as an accommodation 
for the service of the year, and he was glad they did so ; but they 
were willing to use it as the means of getting the sum into circu- 
lation, and in the hope of affording some relaxation to the existing 
pressure. The Bank is the public banker ; but this was not the 
primary object of its institution. That object was, and ought to 
be, to facilitate the operations of commerce and industry, by 
extending mercantile credit; and how was that to be extended 
except by liberal discounts? For this purpose, extensive, and 
important, and exclusive privileges are given to the Bank, whilst 
all other bankers are placed under restrictions. These privileges 
were given in the expectation that the Bank, by keeping their rate 
of discount rather under the market rate, would tend to lower the 
latter, and to make the loans of money cheaper here than in other 
parts of the world. But how is this object to be attained if the 
Bank refuse to discount except at a rate higher than the market 
interest of money 1 If they are to keep the rate of discount at 
five per cent., whilst the banks of other states, Hamburgh, Am- 
sterdam and Paris, are discounting at three, or at the utmost four 
per cent., the tables will be turned against us; commerce will find 
cheaper accommodation elsewhere, and the privileges of the Bank 
will only be felt by the industry and trade of this country as tend- 
ing to uphold (as far as such privileges can uphold), instead of 
tending to lower, the rate of interest upon money. He could not, 
therefore, too strongly state his opinion, that the Directors of the 
Bank would best consult the character and interest of that insti- 
tution, as well as the public interest, by lowering the rate of dis- 
counts in whatever proportion it may be necessary, in order to 
draw to themselves at least as much demand for that accommo- 
dation as it would, in their judgment, be safe for them to grant. 

The next great head of this extensive subject, adverted to in 
the speech of the honourable and learned gentleman, was Taxa- 
tion, to the extent of which he ascribed mainly, if not exclusively, 



idEASURES FOR ITS RELIEF. 323 

the present agricultural distress. This conclusion the honourable 
and learned member had attempted to support by some of the 
most visionary doctrines of political economy which he had ever 
heard, at least from a person of the honourable and learned gen- 
tleman's acknowledged talents and ingenuity. Among other posi- 
tions equally extraordinary, the honourable and learned member 
had stated, " as a known and acknowledged axiom of political 
economy, as old as the science itself, that one effect of taxation 
was, to raise prices by increasing the profits of capital." Now, 
tJiis principle he must own was new to him, and belonged, he 
should say, to that class of axioms which, a few years ago, set 
up the ideal unit, or the abstract pound sterling, as the real 
standard of our currency ; axioms which, to his mind at least, 
had the merit of being unintelligible. He should like to know 
what the honourable member for Portarlington had to say to this 
axiom ? He had always thought, that one of the evils of taxation 
was, that it diminished the profits of capital ; but if it increase 
profits, how can it produce this effect without increasing the 
powers of employing industry, without increasing the means of 
consumption and enjoyment, without adding to the accumulated 
wealth of the country? And yet, this is one of the axioms by 
the aid of which the honourable and learned gentleman endeavours 
to connect, as cause and effect, the amount of our taxation with 
the public distress. 

Another axiom of the honourable and learned gentleman equally 
fallacious is, that prices are raised to the consumer by the employ- 
ment of great capitals, and that taxation renders such great capi- 
tals necessary. If he had said that, without a great extent of 
capital in a country, there could be no great extent of taxation, 
he could have understood him ; but instead of great fixed capitals 
raising the price of manufactured commodities, their tendency 
was directly the reverse. It was by this extent of wealth, and 
by all the mechanical and chemical improvements which science 
suggested, but which capital alone could turn to the greatest prac- 
tical advantage, that the natural effect of taxation in raising prices 
was in some degree counteracted ; and that England was enabled 
to manufacture cheaper than any other country in the world. 
This advantage enabled the industrious classes in this country to 
provide themselves with many of the comforts of life, in clothing, 
hardware, and other articles, not only cheaper than they could 
be had in other countries, but cheaper than they were in this 
country at a time when the public burthens were much less in 
their amount. This is the case with cotton clothing, with coarse 
woollens, and with iron goods, articles of no small consumption 
by the agricultural classes of the community. 

DifferincT, therefore, with these doctrines of the honourable and 



324 AGRICULTURAL DISTRESS-^ 

learned gentleman respecting taxation, he was at the same time 
anxious that his own principles should not be misunderstood. 
Those principles might be found in the Agricultural Report of last 
year. To some of the propositions and inferences of that Report 
he could only give a qualified concurrence ; but upon this topic, 
it had his entire assent. He was ready to say now, as he said 
then, that " taxes, however imposed, must necessarily abridge the 
resources and comforts of those by whom they are ultimately 
paid, and that the general amount and real pressure of taxation 
have been positively increased in proportion to the improved value 
of the currency." 

In one principle stated by the honourable and learned gentle- 
man, he agreed ; namely, " that it was. the total amount more 
than the mode of levying the taxes that ought to be considered." 
But if he agreed with him in this general remark, he must add, 
that the honourable and learned gentleman had fallen into a strange 
inconsistency ; for a great part of his speech had been an attempt 
to prove that the malt tax, and most of the productive taxes in 
the collection of the excise, were paid by the occupiers of the 
land. As well might he argue, that the tax upon sugar was paid 
by* the West-India planter, and that upon tea by the Chinese. In 
truth, all these taxes fall in the first instance upon the consumer, 
and are ultimately borne either by the profits of capital, or some- 
times by the capital itself, belonging to all the subjects of the 
state, and must operate in diminution either of the one or of the 
other. A remission of taxes, therefore, must be a benefit to all, 
and not exclusively to any particular class. 

The immediate cause of the distress of the farmer is the great 
depression of his market, creating a difference of one-third, at the 
least, between the nominal value of his whole stock in business 
now, compared with that nominal value a few years ago. In this 
state of things, let us suppose that taxes to a large amount are 
taken of]'. The effect will be, we are told, a further fall in prices. 
Be it so. What will be the consequence to the tenant, whose 
stock in business is already diminished in value one-third ? Why, 
that it will be diminished one-half. Now, in the case of many 
tenants, at least one-half of the capitals with which they began 
business, was money borrowed. To a man in that situation, what 
sort of i-elief should you give? With a new tenant who now 
takes to the concern and provides his stock in business with a 
money ca})ital, only one-half of that which was requisite to his 
predecessor, the case is different. The fall of prices, produced by 
the remission of taxes, involving too the fall of rent, will be to him 
anything but a disadvantage. It will be a boon to him, as it will 
to capitalists, under similar circumstances, in other branches of 
industry* This appeared to him the fair distinction. The rem is- 



llEASURES FOR ITS RELIEF. 325 

sion of taxation will be no immediate remedy to a distress directly 
arising from low prices ; — but in whatever degree it can be efiect- 
ed, it will ultimately be a benefit to the agricultural, as well as to 
all the other interests of the country. 

The honourable and learned gentleman has gone into minute 
details to show that taxation diminishes consumption. Here again 
the general principle may be admitted. But has there been any 
marked diminution of consumption, peculiarly coincident with the 
present distress? On the contrary, has not consumption increased, 
and is it not now increasing in all articles of general use, even 
those subject to heavy duties of excise ? If taxation, therefore, 
be the immediate cause of the present difficulties, whence comes 
it that the taxes complained of as peculiarly pressing upon agri- 
culture, are more than usually productive ? We are agreed as to 
the existence and character of the distress. It rests, therefore, 
with the honourable and learned gentleman, either to contend, that 
distress increases consumption, or to admit (contrary to the whole 
drift of his speech), that the particular taxes which he has men- 
tioned, — malt, soap, candles, &c., do not fall either exclusively or 
extensively upon the distressed classes ; and if they do not, it fol- 
lows that the remission of those taxes would do nothing specifically 
for the immediate relief of agriculture. 

The honourable and learned gentleman has shown that the in- 
creased consumption of malt has not kept pace with the increase 
of our population. But when he ascribes this circumstance ex- 
clusively to the increase of the tax on this article, he might have 
shown, had it equally suited his purpose, that increase or diminu- 
tion in the annual consumption of this article has not corresponded 
with the augmentation or abatement of the tax. In 1816, the tax 
was reduced from 4s. 4d. to 2s. 4d. a bushel — the consumption 
of 1817 was 17,136,020 bushels; that of 1818, 26,462,933; that 
of 1819, 22,346,259; making an average of the three years of 
21,981,737 bushels. In 1819, the duty was again raised to 3s. dd. 
per bushel; the consumption of 1820 was 24,535,155; of 1821, 
28,697,057 bushels, giving an average for the two years of 
26,616,106 bushels, and exceeding the average of the three years 
of low duty by 4,634,369 bushels. If upon a comparison of thirty 
years the increase in the consumption of malt has not kept pace 
with the increase of the population — without denying that the tax 
has contributed its share to the falling off— it may in part proba- 
bly be ascribed to other causes — to improvements in the art of 
brewing, by which a saving of malt is effected — a saving, which 
he understood, was still greater in the distillery — also he was 
willing to hope, in part to a melioration in the habits of the people ; 
at least he was glad to see that the consumption of soap, and 
other exciseable articles connected with the comforts of the indus- 
28 



326 AGRICULTURAL DISTRESS— 

trious classes, had increased, within the same period, in a propor- 
tion greater even than the increase of population ; for he knew no 
more certain indication of sobriety than increased cleanliness and 
an improvement in the domestic manners of the community. 

From whatever causes, however, the increase in the consump- 
tion of malt had not kept pace with the growth of the population, 
upon a comparison of the present period with the year 1792; it 
would be a fairer mode of inquiry, in reference to the effect of 
taxation, to make the comparison not upon malt only, but upon 
all the articles of general consumption which are liable to heavy 
duties of excise. This comparison, embracing some articles upon 
which the increase of taxation has been much more rapid and 
extensive than upon malt (such for instance as tea, mentioned by 
the noble marquis), would show that, upon an average of the 
whole, consumption has fully kept pace with the augmented num- 
ber of our population. 

But, oh ! exclaims the honourable and learned gentleman, in- 
dignant at the mere mention of tea, " this may be very well for 
the agriculturist in China, but does tea in the smallest degree pro- 
mote British industry or give employment to any one individual 
in Great Britain?" Does the honourable and learned gentleman 
wish us to understand, that the Chinese kindly make us a present 
of all the tea, and, still more kindly, deliver it free of expense in 
Leadenhall-street ; and that no British industry is put in motion, 
either to provide the means of procuring this foreign article, or 
to convey it to the shores of this country 1 Are we to take this 
as the honourable and learned gentleman's doctrine, in respect to 
commerce with foreign states, and as another sample of that 
political economy which the honourable and learned gentleman 
has attempted to palm upon the good sense of the House of Com- 
mons, but which, in fact, is more worthy of a drunken mob in 
Palace-yard ? 

The honourable and learned gentleman has compared the 
nominal amount of the taxes, including the charge of collection, 
now, and at various periods of the war, in order to show that 
their real amount has not been diminished. " The people pay as 
much now in the seventh year of peace," he says, " as they did 
in 180G ; aye, even as much as they did in 1813. Was there ever 
anything so monstrous? In 1813, eighty-four millions was the 
gross sum collected, last year it was sixty. The difierence is just 
equivalent to the depreciation of the currency." 

The honourable and learned gentleman entered into a similar 
comparison with the year 1806. No wonder, that for these com- 
parisons it suited the honourable and learned gentleman's purpose 
to take the average depreciation of the currency at twenty-five 
per cent. But, even if it were true that the average depreciation 



MEASURES FOR ITS RELIEF. 327 

had been carried to that extent, we have in these comparisons, 
the honourable and learned gentleman's implied admission, that 
agriculture flourished, during the war, with an amount of taxation 
at least equal to that of the present time. Its present depression, 
therefore, is not the consequence of taxation. In the next place, 
what is there so monstrous or so new, that a country which resorts 
to loans during war, should have to pay the interest of those loans 
after peace? Was not this the case after the American war? If 
the honourable and learned gentleman had been in the House in 
1789, he might have exclaimed " how monstrous ! our revenue is 
now, in the sixth year of peace, seventeen millions; and in 1781, 
a year of war, it was only ten millions." He might then have 
further exclaimed — " a great part of the diflerence arises from 
new taxes which did not exist during the war, but which have 
been imposed in successive years since the peace !" On the other 
hand, to make his present statement correct, he ought to have 
added to it — that, " contrary to the practice of all former wars, 
we had been able to wind up this last, the most protracted and 
the most expensive of all, not only without any addition to, but 
with a great remission of, the public burthens." 

Whether our expenditure upon the reduced scale stated by the 
noble marquis, be still too great, is a point reserved for further 
investigation and discussion ; but when the whole charge for the 
current year is brought under fifty millions, including the extra- 
ordinary expenses incident to the insurrection in Ireland, it ought 
to be a strong presumption with gentlemen on the other side, that, 
with safety and justice, retrenchment cannot go much further. 
The honourable member for Essex,* whose absence from indis- 
position he particularly regretted, had deliberately stated his 
opinion in 1816, " that fifty millions was the lowest sum to which 
we could hope to bring our expenditure, and that he did not see 
how it could be brought so low." No man will question his 
capacity to investigate these subjects, no man will question his 
disposition to economy. This is an authority which must have 
its weight with the other side of the House, and which is justly 
looked up to by the country ; he therefore referred to it with the 
more confidence, as he was sure it would be a satisfaction to that 
honourable member to find, that the expenditure w^as now actu- 
ally within the estimate which he considered the lowest that could 
be sufficient. 

The honourable and learned gentleman recommends an imme- 
diate remission of taxes to the extent of any existing surplus. 
But he goes further. If the taking off of five millions of taxes 
should not afford immediate relief — and assuredly it would not — - 

* Mr. Western. 



328 AGRICULTURAL DISTRESS— 

the next step would be, to apply the remedy of an " unreasoning 
necessity," as the honourable and learned gentleman describes it ; 
but which, in plain terms, means neither more nor less than a 
breach of faith with the public creditor. That a nation, like an 
individual, may be compelled to bend to an absolute uncontrolla- 
ble necessity, is what cannot be denied ; but when the honourable 
and learned gentleman calmly contemplates a state of things short 
of that, and attempts to measure and define it by the present dif- 
ficulties of the country ; the continuance of which, he intimated, 
would come up to his view of an " unreasoning necessity," the 
proposition is most alarming. Setting aside all considerations of 
morality, justice, and public honour, is there any man weak 
enough to believe, that a national bankruptcy would relieve the 
present distress? blind enough not to see, that it would involve us 
in general confusion, and weaken, if not destroy, the foundations 
upon which the security of all other property now rests'? 

Something has been said of the Pubhc Debt being a mortgage 
upon all the lands of England. This he would deny. There is 
no such specific mortgage. The public creditor can show no 
parchment — produce no deeds. His title is not upon the lands, 
more than upon the whole capital and income of the country. He 
derives that title from the same source as that which gives to 
every other subject of the realm the security in what he possesses 
— from the guarantee of the public power of the state. What 
is property itself, but the creature of that public power 1 Has not 
the claim of the public creditor the same sanction and pledge of 
that public power, as the private engagements between man and 
man, or as the transmission of property by inheritance or by will ? 
Are not all these means of possession created and upheld by law, 
administered and enjoyed according to law ; and can you make 
an inroad upon any one without endangering the whole ? The 
possessor of an estate which he has inherited or purchased, or the 
holder of a mortgage upon that estate, has no more natural right, 
the one to his rent, or the other to his interest, than the public 
creditor has to his dividend. Titles to property are not like life, 
or liberty — the gifts of God and nature. If you cancel the security 
given to one class of property, you endanger the rights of all. 
Your blow may indeed be aimed at one corner of the edifice 
only, but its recoil, depend upon it, will damage, perhaps destroy, 
the foundation of the whole fabric. 

With respect to the Sinking Fund, he had no difficulty in avow- 
ing, that there could be no real Sinking Fund in time of peace, 
except the surplus of revenue above expenditure. Nothing else 
could be deserving of the name. But with such a debt as ours, 
and without such a Sinking Fund, he should look with disquietude, 
not so much to the immediate interests of the public creditor as 



MEASURES FOR ITS RELIEF. 329 

to the security of the state. If parliament proclaim our utter 
inability to reduce our debt during peace, what can we expect 
upon the renewal of hostilities, but the annihilation of credh, 
forcing us either to limit the extraordinary exertions of war within 
the additional means that can be raised annually by taxation, or 
to declare a national bankruptcy? Is this the alternative for which 
the country is prepared 1 If we had never had a Sinking Fund, 
it would be one question, whether, at a moment of difficulty like 
the present, we should, for the first time, make the efibrt necessary 
for creating one: it is quite another question, whether, without the 
most overruling necessity, we ought to give up the Sinking Fund 
which we already possess ; to give it up too in the face of the 
Resolution of the year 1819, thus exhibiting to the world such a 
proof of distress azid inability, of weakness and vacillation in 
council, as must lower our station, and destroy our influence, in 
Europe ; and as could not fail, ere long, by inviting aggression, 
to bring upon us, in increased expense and diminished security, the 
punishment, even in a pecuniary view, of our own short-sighted 
and miserable policy. If hitherto, public credit has been to Eng- 
land power and safety, are we to part with it at the moment when 
all the states in the world are cultivating that source of strength 
by establishing Sinking Funds for the reduction of their respective 
debts ? In France, the Sinking Fund is greater in proportion to 
the total amount of debt than in this country ; and in America 
still greater than in France. 

But one great authority, hitherto most friendly to a Sinking 
Fund,* has told us, that we may part with it now, and restore it 
again some years hence, when the country shall be more pros- 
perous. This appears a weak and dangerous course. If once 
given up, the Sinking Fund will be gone for ever. Besides, can 
any man say how soon this country may be driven to the neces- 
sity of preparing for war? Would that be a case which we could 
postpone, because we should have postponed our Sinking Fund ? 
If called upon to vindicate our honour, could we adjourn the 
demand of satisfaction to some indefinite but more convenient 
period? If we once adopt this principle, if the feelings of the 
country be once subdued to it, insults and injuries will certainly 
not be wanting ; but as we should have first parted with the means, 
so we should soon be w^ithout the spirit to avenge them. 

That the resources of England, however, are reduced to this 
extremity, he utterly denied. If in reference to any other great 
state in Europe, it had been proved to him, that its public credit 
stood very high — that its revenue was increasing, without any in- 
crease of taxes, that its population was increasing in numbers 

* Mr. Tiemey. 
28* 2R 



330 AGRICULTURAL DISTRESS. 

with a rapidity unparalleled in any long-settled country, and that 
its internal improvements were keeping pace with the growth of 
its population ; — and if, notwithstanding these facts, he had been 
told, that the real state of that countiy was desperate and hope- 
less, he should have mistrusted the accuracy of the assertion. If 
these be the immediate forerunners of decline, decay, and ruin, 
what, he might be allowed to ask, are the steady indications of 
increasing wealth, power, and prosperity ? 

Not concurring, therefore, in the gloomy view, not dismayed 
by the mysterious and fearful forebodings of the honourable and 
learned gentleman, he could not consent, under a pressure which 
he trusted would be temporary, to break down the best hopes, 
and to destroy the public credit, of the country. If after all the 
dangers we had defied, all the difficulties which we had overcome, 
and all the trials which our fortitude and firmness had met unap- 
palled, during a war of twenty years — if after we had terminated 
that long struggle in a manner which had raised the name and 
character of England to a height which no other country ever 
attained, we were, in a moment of despondency, to dash away, 
for ever, one of the main resources which have raised us to that 
proud distinction — a resource which is well described in the con- 
clusion of the Speech from the throne, as " that public credit, in 
the maintenance of which all the best interests of this kingdom 
are equally involved, and by a steady adherence to the principles 
whereof we have attained and can alone expect to preserve our 
high station amongst the nations of the world," — he should then 
make it his earnest entreaty to those with whom he had acted in 
public hfe, he should call upon them by the reverence which they 
felt for the character and memory of Mr. Pitt, and, he might add, 
by their regard for their own fair fame, not to lend themselves to 
pull down this monument of our greatness and our strength ; and 
if, unfortunately, the House should resolve that it ought not to be 
sustained, to leave to other hands the unhallowed task of its de- 
molition. 

The motion was agreed to, and the several returns were laid on the table. 



( 331 ) 



MR. WESTERN'S MOTION 

RELATIVE TO THE EFFECTS OF THE RESUMPTION OF CASH 
PAYMENTS ON THE AGRICULTURE, MANUFACTURES, AND 
COMMERCE OF THE COUNTRY. 

JUNE 11, 1822. 

This day Mr. Western, pursuant to notice, called the attention of the House 
to the effect which the Resumption of Cash Payments by the Bank of Eng- 
land had had in producing the present Agricultural Distress. The honoura- 
ble gentleman stated in the outset of his address, that his object was to 
arraign the wisdom, the justice, and the policy of the measure passed in 
1819; and he concluded with moving, "That a committee be appointed to 
consider of the effects produced by the Act of the 59th Geo. III. c. 49, in- 
tituled, ' An Act to continue the restrictions contained in several Acts on 
payments in cash by the Bank of England, until the 1st of May 1823, and to 
provide for the gradual resumption of such cash payments, and to permit the 
exportation of gold and silver,' upon the Agriculture, Manufactures, and Com- 
merce, of the united empire, and upon the general condition of the different 
classes of society." 

Mr. Huskisson rose, and spoke in substance as follows : 
The subject which the honourable gentleman has brought under 
the consideration of the House is one of the gi'eatest magnitude. 
It involves nothing less than an alteration of that standard of 
value by which all property is secured, and all pecuniary con- 
tracts and dealings measured and ascertained. The course sug- 
gested for the attainment of this object, is pregnant with conse- 
quences of the most fearful importance. These considerations — 
the magnitude of the subject, and the alarming consequences to 
be apprehended from the present motion — will, I trust, be suffi- 
cient to induce the House to afford a patient hearing to the dis- 
cussion, without any personal appeal to their indulgence, even 
from an individual standing so much in need of it as myself 

I have listened with every attention in my power to the state- 
ments and doctrines of the honourable member, during his long 
and elaborate, but able speech. Some parts of it I have heard 
with surprise ; other parts, I must candidly confess, with regret ; 
— surprise, at the view which he has taken of the subject, and the 
extraordinary positions which he has laboured to establish ; — re- 
gret, at some of his inferences and suggestions, which appeared 



332 MR. WESTERN'S MOTION ON THE 

to be incompatible with every principle, not only of private right 
and individual justice, but of public honour and national faith: 
although I feel perfectly assured, that, in oil the relations of public 
or private life, {here is no man more incapable of countenancing 
any wrong-doing than the honourable member for Essex. 

It was my lot, Sir, to be a member of the House of Commons, 
in the year 1797, when cash payments vvere, for the first time, 
suspended. I have continued to enjoy the honour of a seat in this 
House for the long series of years which have since elapsed. 
During that period I have not been an inattentive observer of the 
proceedings in Parliament, and of the eflect of those proceedings, 
in respect to the Currency. In my opinions upon this subject, it 
was my misfortune, in 1810, to differ from some distinguished 
members of this House to whom I was personally attached, and 
in whose political views I had generally concurred ; but, having 
formed those opinions deliberately and conscientiously, I could 
not honestly withhold them from the public. I shall not at pre- 
sent advert more particularly to those differences, or to the mea- 
sures adopted by this House after the Report of the Bullion Com- 
mittee ; but I own that if I had been uninformed of all that had 
passed on this subject since the suspension, I should have inferred 
from the speech of the honourable gentleman, this evening, that 
it had been something of this sort : — first, that the liability of the 
Bank to pay all its notes on demand in the legal coin of the realm 
having been suspended in 1797, a difference had ensued between 
the nominal value of those notes and the real value of the coin 
which they purported to represent: — and secondly, that this dif- 
ference had been acknowledged by the legislature, and acted upon 
by the public ; — that it had been allowed and compensated for in 
the adjustment of all pecuniary contracts made prior to the sus- 
pension ; — that all dealings since had been made in reference to 
that difference ; and, consequently, that it was a difference, which, 
however fluctuating in its degree, was at any time capable of 
being ascertained by exact measurement, and set right by specific 
adjustment. 

I should further have been led to infer, from the reasoning and 
statements of the honourable member, that at some period of this 
long suspension (perhaps about 1811, when the difference between 
the nominal value of the paper and the real value of the coin was 
very considerable), an attempt had been made in Parliament to 
prevent that difference from being any longer acted upon in the 
adjustment of pecuniary contracts ; and that, for this purpose, it 
had been proposed to enact, that all such contracts should be 
satisfied by a tender of bank notes at their nominal value, and to 
inflict penalties upon any one who paid a guinea for more, or 
received a bank note for less, than its denominative amount. But 



RESUMPTION OF CASH PAYMENTS. 333 

I should have felt quite sure, that this attempt, whenever made, 
had been rejected with scorn and indignation by the House, and 
particularly by tiie landed interest: — that the leading members of 
that interest had vied with each other in denouncing the iniquity 
of a proposal calculated to defeat the just claims of age and in- 
fancy — to rob a parent of a part of that dower which had been 
allotted to her, in the old standard of the realm, long before the 
suspension of cash payments — to defraud orphan brothers and 
sisters of a considerable portion of those fortunes, which the will 
or marriage settlement of their father had assigned for their 
education, and maintenance in the world — or, if there were no 
widows to be curtailed of a part of their jointures — no orphans 
to be stript of a share of their inheritance — was there no unfortu- 
nate mortgagee (possibly a near relation or friend) to be deprived 
of a part of that interest which he had stipulated to receive in 
the same standard of value in which he had advanced the money 
for his mortgage? What! could it be expected that the great 
land-owners would suffer such a proposal as this to be entertained, 
doing such violence to their love of justice, so offensive to their 
best feelings as men, at a moment, too, when they were conscious 
that their estates, whether liable to the portions of younger chil- 
dren, or charged with dower, or incumbered with mortgage, had 
doubled in rent since the commencement of the suspension ? — and, 
if their personal feelings revolted at a suggestion which was cal- 
culated to injure those who were near and dear to them, their 
public feehngs were surely equally repugnant to the idea of a 
measure not less fraught with injustice, and calculated to blight 
our national character, in the case of the public creditor. 

This is the inference which, in ignorance of all that had really 
taken place, I should have drawn from the general tenor of the 
honourable member's speech ; but it would even have led me one 
step further: I should also have imagined, that the ancient stand- 
ard of value being now again restored, some of those same 
creditors who had been so equitably dealt with during the de- 
parture from it, were at this moment enforcing the higher nominal 
payments which they had received during the depreciation; and 
that the honourable member had come forward this evening, very 
properly, to claim the interposition of the House against such an 
unfair demand on their part. 

But, Sir, instead of this having been the real state of things, 
what is the course which has been pursued since the suspension 
of cash payments? Did the legislature recognize a difference 
between paper and coin? Were pecuniary transactions adjusted 
with a reference to that difference ? Were dealings entered into, 
or contracts made, under stipulations founded on that diflerence ? 
Did not the law, on the contrary, compel every creditor, whether 



334 MR. WESTERN'S MOTION ON THE 

public or private, whether his contract was prior or subsequent 
to the restriction, to accept payment in bank-notes, according to 
their denominative value 1 Did not that same law prohibit him, 
under severe penalties, from having reference to any other than 
the nominal value of the currency in the adjustment of any pecu- 
niary transactions, either retrospective or prospective 1 

If these were the regulations in force during the depreciation, 
what is proposed now that money is. restored to its former value? 
Why, that having had hitherto one measure of justice for the 
creditor, we should now have another measure of justice for the 
debtor : — that the latter having been protected by one law in pay- 
ing according to the nominal value, when that value was less than 
the standard in which he had contracted, he should now — and for 
no other reason than because that standard is restored — be pro- 
tected by another law in paying less than that nominal value? It 
is no suthcient answer to state, " that most of the pecuniary con- 
tracts now in force have been entered into since the year 1797, 
and that they were contracted in a depreciated currency." Be 
it so, for the sake of argument. But then all contracts prior to 
1797 have been liquidated in that same currency. By what rule 
of right can you allow for its depreciation in the one case, and 
not in the other ? By what designation would any impartial man 
describe that equity which should grant an abatement of interest 
upon the debt of 1811, and refuse a compensation for interest paid 
short upon a debt prior to 1797? 

This, however, is the new principle of equity which the speech 
of the honourable member inculcates, and which it is the object 
of his present motion to estabUsh, as a remedy for all the injustice 
of depreciation, and all the evils which now press upon the coun- 
try. He has taken a distinction between the interference of the 
State to decrease, or to increase, by artificial means, the denomi- 
native value of money — and what is that distinction ? Is the one 
course more moral or more just than the other? This, indeed, is 
not the position of the honourable member — but that it is politi- 
cally more expedient. A constantly progressive depreciation of 
money, is, according to the doctrines of the honourable member, 
the great secret of public prosperity. This is no new theory. He 
only proposes to revive the Scheme of the famous Mr. Law in a 
more mitigated shape. If once adopted by any country, it must 
end, as his scheme ended. You may retard its progress to ma- 
turity, but you cannot perpetuate the delusion. You must either 
retrace your steps, or the bubble must burst at last. This was the 
fate of Law's scheme, as it must be of any project founded on 
the principle now recommended to the House. During the exist- 
ence of that scheme, what country was apparently so prosperous 
as France, what financier so popular as Mr. Law ? exultingly 



RESUMPTION OF CASH PAYMENTS. 335 

mentioned by a French political writer of that clay, in the follow- 
ing terms, " a minister far above all the past age has known, that 
the present can conceive, or that the future will believe." Mr. 
Law, it is true, outlived his popularity and his scheme.* He 
brought distress and ruin upon thousands, and died, himself, in 
misery and want. The more wary theorists of the present day 
might prolong the duration of artificial excitement, but they could 
not prevent the final decay and overthrow of the system. There 
is no escape from this result in any country that has, through in- 
advertency or a temporary necessity, once lost sight of a fixed 
standard of value, except by its restoration. 

This restoration, I know, cannot be effected without pressure 
and difficulty. But I cannot admit the justice of the distinction 
which the honourable member has taken between the loss to the 
land-owner by an increase in the value of money, and the loss to 
his creditor by its decrease. The honourable gentleman's illus- 
tration was this, " By decreasing the value of money to one-half," 
he said, " you reduce the creditor of 500/. a year to 250/., and 
again by decreasing that sum to one-half, to 125/., but still he is 
left with some income. Now, on the other hand, a man who pur- 
chased an estate having a rental of 1,000/. a year, when the value 
of money was decreased one-half, is reduced to nothing if money 
is restored to its former value, and the purchaser has to pay 500/. 
a year out of the estate." 

Passing by, for the present, the right of any government in 
which the nature of property is understood, and the principles of 
justice respected, artificially to raise or lower the standard of 
value, let us examine a little more closely this practical illustra- 
tion. Let me for a moment reverse the data of the honourable 
member's comparison, which, ingeniously enough for his purpose, 
assumes the land-owner to be in debt, and the moneyed man with- 
out any similar demand against his income. Let me suppose on 
the one side, a land-owner with an estate unencumbered, and his 

* Law concluded the chequered course of his life at Venice, where he died 
in a state but little removed from indigence, on the 21st of March 1720, in 
the tifty-eighth year of his age; and he lies buried in one of the churches of 
that city, where a monument to his memory is still to be seen. The follow- 
ing epitaph appeared soon afterwards : 

" Ci git cet Ecossois celebre, 
Ce calculateur sans egal, 
Qui, par les regies de I'algebre, 
A mis la France a I'Hopital." 

"C'etait," says Montesquieu, "le meme homme, toujours I'esprit occupe 
de projets, toujours la tete remplie de calculs et de valeurs numeraires ou 
representatives. 11 jouait souvent, et assez gros jeu, quoivue sa fortune f&t 
fort mince." 



336 MR. WESTERN'S MOTION ON THE 

rent doubled from 500/. to 1,000/. a year during the depreciation; 
and on the other, a moneyed man, who, with 500/. a year in the 
three per cents., purchased at 90/., had borrowed one-half of the 
purchase money, and found himself compelled to repay it when 
the price had fallen to 50/. ; — or, to come still nearer to the honour- 
able gentleman's comparison, take the case of an income of 1,000/. 
a year, liable to an obligation to pay abroad an annuity stipulated 
for in some foreign currency. If that annuity had been satisfied 
with 500/. when the exchange with such foreign country was at 
par, it would have required the whole income, when by depre- 
ciating our money one-half, the same exchange was turned in that 
proportion against us. 

But I must protest against this description of argument alto- 
gether. The price of land may rise or fall from natural causes, 
as may the price of commodities. Every holder of the one or the 
other is liable to such fluctuations ; but that which is the common 
and fixed measure of all price is not to be tampered with and 
adjusted, to countervail these fluctuations. In this country, where 
gold is the standard of value, what is it which the parties stipu- 
late for, and the State guaranties, in every contract for a money 
payment? Why, that the sum tendered, in satisfaction of such 
payment, shall not be less in weight and fineness than is required 
by the standard ; but the contract does not stipulate, neither does 
the State guaranty, that the quantity of gold contained in that 
sum shall bear, at all time to come, the same value, in relation 
either to land or to other commodities, as it did at the time when 
the parties contracted together. It is among the highest and first 
duties of the State, in relation to property, to maintain that stand- 
ard inviolate and immutable, and it is because we have neglected 
that duty, that we are now suffering all the evil consequences of 
our neglect. 

But, admitting that a certain quantum of injustice has been done 
to one class of the community during the suspension, and that 
now, by its removal, a consequent degree of injury and hardship 
is inflicted upon another, does it follow that we are either to per- 
petuate and aggravate the first injustice, or that it is wise or prac- 
ticable to attempt to revise and re-adjust all the pecuniary trans- 
actions of the last twenty-five years? The honourable member, 
indeed, seems to think that nothing is more simple than the first 
of these courses ; but he only looks at one side of the question. He 
puts the case of hardship to the land-owner who encumbered his 
estate during the depreciation ; but let me ask him to recollect the 
mortgagee who lent his money before that event. Let me suppose 
the honourable member himself (and there is no man to whose 
candour and sense of justice I would with more confidence apply 
myself in this illustration) to liave two mortgages upon his estate ; 



RESUMPTION OF CASH PAYMENTS'. 337 

the one dated in 1796, and the other in 1811. How has he hitherto 
settled with his two creditors, and iiow does he propose to settle 
with them now? Has he two measures of justice and value — one 
for the creditor of 1811, and another for the creditor of 1796? 
What the honourable member now says to the mortgagee of 1811, 
in substance is this, " when I signed your mortgage the currency 
was depreciated forty per cent., and my rents have since fallen in 
nearly the same amount: if, therefore, I now reduce your claim 
in that proportion, there can be no real injustice." Against the 
fairness of this proposal what' says the mortgagee ? "I lent my 
money," he replies, " without reference to that difference, and I 
produce the act of parliament which prohibits any such reference: 
— I further appeal to the repeated and solemn declarations of the 
legislature, that cash payments should be resumed on the restora- 
tion of peace. I ask, if the depreciation had increased from forty 
to sixty in the first year after our contract, and from sixty to 
eighty in the year following, would you (the mortgager) have 
compensated me for these differences; or would you not, if it had 
suited your convenience, have paid me off without any such com- 
pensation ? If you did not pay me off, it may be, because you 
assumed that the value of money would go on further diminishing 
from year to year, but you had no right to assume that it might 
not be the other way ; and, at any rate, you were distinctly fore- 
warned, that, in one contingency, which from the nature of things 
could not be very remote, the ancient standard was to be re- 
stored." 

Notwithstanding this answer, conclusive, I conceive, as to the 
strict legal right of the creditor, it may be said, that the case of 
the debtor may be such as to entitle him to an equitable con- 
sideration. Be it so. But then, what becomes of the other mort- 
gagee who had lent his money in 1796? Has he been paid during 
the whole of the suspension in depreciated money? In 1811, for 
instance, did his debtor force him to accept payment in the cur- 
rency of that year ? Did he tender to him Bank notes, depreciated, 
as he says, forty per cent., together with the act of parliament 
which prohibits any reference to that depreciation ? Against such 
a tender, backed by such a law, what would the mortgagee of 
1796 have to urge? Might he not say, — "At the period when I 
made this advance, I relied on the public faith. The money which 
I lent you was of due weight and fineness; according to that 
standard which had remained unaltered since the reign of Eliza- 
beth. To preserve that standard for ever inviolate, I knew was 
the declared policy of the State, and that parliament, in each suc- 
ceeding reign, had passed laws for that purpose. Resting upon 
an unbroken pledge of near three centuries, upon the positive 
enactments of iaw, upon the universal understanding of the coun- 
29 2S . 



338 MR. WESTERN'S MOTION ON THE 

try, upon the obvious justice of the case, upon the avowed inten- 
tion of parliament, recorded in every statute that imposed or con- 
tinued the suspension, — that cash payments should be resumed as 
soon as possible, and upon the implied assurance, involved in this 
declaration, that it was not intended, by these temporary suspen- 
sions, to alter the standard of our money — upon all these grounds, 
I claim to be paid with reference to the existing difference between 
Bank notes and that standard." " No !" replies the mortgager, 
" here is a law which forbids that reference, and by that law I 
will abide, whether the difference be forty or eighty per cent., 
whether the rent of my estate upon which your mortgage is 
secured, has been doubled or tripled in consequence of that dif- 
ference." 

Now, I ask of the honourable member, in these two cases, could 
he claim an equitable adjustment in the one, and refuse it in the 
other ? Could he require an abatement upon one mortgage, with- 
out accounting for the arrear due upon the other ? If the two 
mortgages were held by different persons, I will not say that the 
man does not exist (certainly not the honourable member), who 
might, and perhaps, would, contend with each separately for such 
an arrangement ; but, if both securities were held by one and the 
same individual, it would require no small share of ingenuity to 
satisfy him, that he was about to receive an equal measure of 
equity in both instances. For my own part, I should as little envy 
the casuistry which could countenance, as I should the justice 
which could award, such a decision. 

But, whatever may be the difficulty in respect to mortgages, 
would an equitable adjustment be more easy in other pecuniary 
contracts, for instance, with the public creditor? Far from it. 
Here the principle is the same, but the difficuhy would be a thou- 
sand fold. In the mass of the public debt, can we distinguish 
each separate loan, and the original subscribers to that loaji? and 
if we could, can we hope to trace, and unravel, and identify, every 
separate purchase and sale connected with that debt, between the 
year 1797, and the present time? How should we distinguish the 
bona fide holders prior to 1797 — those who became holders during 
the depreciation, and during each different state of it — and those 
who have become holders since the year 1814 or 1819; and, if 
we could distinguish them, must we not trace the money of each 
purchase since 1797, through all its previous career? Can we 
hope to follow every Bank-note through all the transactions, and 
to fix the date of each, in which it has formed a part? It may, 
for instance, happen that the present holder of any given quantity 
of three per cents., purchased when paper was at its greatest de- 
preciation, had made that purchase with money received in dis- 
charge of some old mortgage. Is he to be amerced, or is the loss 



RESUMPTION OF CASH PAYMENTS. 339 

to fall upon the seller of the stock who received that money, or 
upon the mortgager who paid it 1 or are we to trace this particular 
sum in all its component parts, divided and re-united in a thousand 
different ways, through all its prior and subsequent combinations, 
and to follow it up through all their ramifications 'l To attempt 
such a task would be as hopeless as to endeavour to identifv, in 
the great mass of waters, the particular share of each tributary 
stream which has emptied itself into the ocean for the last twenty 
years. 

The same difficulties would occur in the revision of all the pri- 
vate transactions of the community; and if we are to engage in 
this undertaking, we shall not satisfy the equity of the case, unless 
it embrace, not only all pecuniary contracts existing prior to 
1797, and all which ha,ve been made since, and which are still in 
force, but likewise, all which have been closed and settled. Surely, 
every man must see that such a revision is impracticable; that it 
cannot be entertained without involving all the dealings of the 
community in inextricable confusion, and that any partial applica- 
tion of a principle, which nothing but a general re-adjustment 
could justify, would only tend to destroy all confidence and credit, 
and to aggravate all the evils which it is intended to remedy. 

In arguing upon an assumed depreciation of forty per cent, I 
am anxious to be understood as not admitting, that, upon an 
average of the whole period, or indeed at any part of it, the de- 
preciation actually reached that extent. The honourable member 
says, " the depreciation is not to be measured by the difference 
between the Mint and the market price of gold." I should wish 
to ask him, by what other test he would determine its extent ? If, 
in 1811, it was open to any man, in any part of Europe, England 
excepted, to have bought a hundred guineas, or 105Z. with 130/. 
in Bank-notes, how can it be contended, that the difference be- 
tw^een the nominal value given and received, was not the measure 
of the depreciation of the paper ? I can conceive no other measure ; 
although I not only admit, but have uniformly maintained, that, 
having once parted with all our coin, we could not again resort 
to a metallic currency, without, in some degree, raising the value 
of the precious metals all over the world. This is a good reason, 
as I have stated before to this House, for using them as sparingly 
as possible, and for maintaining the circulation with as small a 
proportion of gold as is consistent with the preservation of a 
metallic standard. But, inasmuch as any diminution in the value 
of the precious metals — either from natural causes, such as an 
abundant supply from the mines, or from legitimate causes, such 
as the substitution of paper, really payable on demand, or the 
other contrivances of credit — involves no breach of a pecuniary 
contract, however prejudicial to the creditor; so, on the other 



340 ^^' WESTERN'S MOTION ON THE 

hand, an increased denoand for the precious metals, in this or in 
any other country — (for the etfect would be the same should the 
demand arise elsewhere) — or a diminished supply from the mines 
atibrds no ground for the interference of the State with the con- 
ditions of that contract, by which it would be violated for the 
benefit of the debtor. 

I trust that I have satisfied the House, that, retaining the pre- 
sent standard of value, an adjustment between debtor and creditor, 
to be equitabte, must embrace all contracts, as well prior as sub- 
sequent to 1797, and that such an adjustment is impracticable. I 
would next inquire, what would be the effect of altering that 
standard, without any reference to such an adjustment] An 
extensive alteration to this effect, I take to be the plan of the 
honourable member for Essex. In the first place, it is evident, 
that such an alteration would be nothing less than a direct breach 
of faith to all creditors generally, without any discrimination 
between debts contracted before the period of the depreciation, 
or during that period, or since the restoration of the currency. 

Is the House of Commons prepared to sanction such a sweeping 
and monstrous principle as this? Is it prepared to say to the old 
creditor, " the full measure of injustice which you suffered for 
many years, we are now about to acknowledge, not, however, for 
the purpose of repairing, but of perpetuating, that injustice ;" — 
and to all creditors who have entered into contracts since the 
restoration of the standard — " we are about to rob you of forty 
per cent, of your property, because there are other creditors in 
this country who made their contracts when the currency was 
depreciated to that amount." Can any legislature, not lost to all 
regard for character, and to every feeling of common honesty, 
listen for a moment to such morality, and to such proposals as 
these ? 

> But, apart from these considerations, let us examine this mea- 
sure on the narrower grounds of policy and expediency: — if, 
indeed, the House can allow itself to suppose, that the present case 
may be an exception to the general rule — that the interests of the 
state can never be promoted by the violation of public justice, and 
the forfeiture of public honour. How strange must be the con- 
dition of this country, if it can only prosper by a violation of 
national faith and a subversion of private property! if it can only 
be saved by a measure, reprobated by all statesmen and all his- 
torians — the wretched but antiquated resource of barbarous igno- 
rance and arbitrary power, and only known among civilized 
communities, as the last mark of a nation's weakness and degra- 
dation ! Does not the honourable member see, that such a mea- 
sure would be the death-blow to all pubHc credit, and to all con- 
fidence in private dealings between man and man ? Does he not 



RESUMPTION OF CASH PAYMENTS. .341 

see, that if you once lower your standard, it will become a pre- 
cedent that will be resorted to on every emergency or temporary 
pressure — resorted to the more readily, as credit and every other 
more valuable resource, on which this country has hitherto relied, 
will be at an end ? Does he not see, that the expectation of such 
a recurrence will produce much of the mischief of its reality? — 
that when men find, that in England there is no security in pecu- 
niary contracts, they will seek that security elsewhere? If we 
once embark in this career ; if once, openly and deliberately, we 
avow and recognize this principle, England, depend upon it, will 
rapidly descend — and not more rapidly in character than in 
wealth — to the level of those countries, in which, from ignorance 
and barbarism, such expedients are not yet exploded. 

But, Sir, whatever fallacious expectations of relief to the coun- 
try the honourable gentleman may have conceived from a plan so 
pregnant with mischief and disaster, fortunately there is little 
danger of its being adopted. In the mysterious councils of 
despotism such a project may be matured, so as to burst by sur- 
prise upon the country. Here it must be discussed in Parhamcnt, 
and would be examined and understood by the Public, long before 
it could be ripe for execution. I will venture to say, that if this 
House were even to entertain such a proposition by a vote, the 
country would be in alarm and confusion, from one end of the 
kingdom to the other. All pecuniary dealings would be at an end ; 
all pending transactions would be thrown into disorder; all debtors 
would be called upon for immediate payment; all holders of paper 
circulation would insist upon its being converted into coin or 
bullion ; and all the coin and bullion so withdrawn, whether gold 
or silver, would be hoarded. Neither the Bank, nor the London 
bankers, nor the Country banks could survive the shock. Every 
man would be struggling to call in credits, whether in public or 
private hands, and either by converting those credits into goods, 
or by sending them abroad, to place them beyond the reach of the 
honourable member's bill. What a scene of strife, insolvency, 
stagnation of business, individual misery, and general disorder, 
would ensue ! All this would precede the passing of the honoura- 
ble gentleman's bill, whilst it was proceeding in its several stages 
in this and the other House of Parliament. 

It would be a waste of the time of the House, to follow the 
measure in its effects when it should have become the law of the 
land, because such an event is happily impossible. Let the House 
give the honourable member his Committee, after the speech in 
which he has proposed it to-night, and I am perfectly sure, that 
this first step, in furtherance of his object, would, even' to-morrow, 
create such a commencement of stir and alarm in the metropolis, 
and very soon in every part of the country, as would induce the 
29* 



342 MR. WESTERN'S MOTION ON THE 

honourable gentleman himself, to be among the first to proclaim 
his abandonment of all such desperate expedients. 

The House, I am sure, must be satisfied of the dangerous prin- 
ciple, and immediate tendency, of such a proposal ; but it may 
not be altogether inexpedient to examine, a little, the extent to 
which, as I understand the honourable member, he would be dis- 
posed to go in the execution of his purpose. That extent I take 
to be, in substance this: — that 'he would lower the standard of 
the currency, in, or nearly in, the proportion of the difference 
between the average price of wheat taken for the period between 
1797 and 1819, and the average price between 1819 and the pre- 
sent year: for instance, if the average price in the latter should 
be 45, and in the former 80 shillings ; he would provide that, 
henceforward, 45 shillings should pass for 80 shillings ; and, con- 
sequently, that, for every debt or contract now existing, a tender 
in this proportion should be a payment in full. 

The honourable gentleman, in order to pave the way for this 
proposal, has laboured hard to prove that corn is a better standard 
than gold. Like most gentlemen who claim to be exclusively 
practical men, and who rail at those whom they are pleased to 
designate as theorists, and political economists — for no other 
reason than because they argue from principles which their adver- 
saries cannot controvert, and proceed by deductions which they 
cannot refute or deny — the honourable member has, himself, 
launched into some of the wildest theories, and drawn his infer- 
ences from some of the most extravagant positions which were 
ever promulgated in this House. 

As the foundation and groundwork of his plan, he lays down 
in principle, that " the standard of value in every country, should 
be that article which forms the constant and most general food 
of its population ;" and therefore it is, that he fixes upon wheat. 
It follows from this principle, that wheat could not be the standard 
in Ireland. There potatoes must be the measure of value. This, 
indeed, is a novelty even in theory. We heard a great deal, in 
1811, of fanciful standards, the ideal unit, the abstract pound ster- 
ling, and so forth ; but, who ever heard before of a potatoe 
standard? What a beautiful simplicity of system, and what 
facility it would afford to the settlement of all transactions between 
the two parts of the same empire, to have a wheat standard for 
the one, and a potatoe standard for the other ! 

I will admit to the honourable member, that there is no positive 
and absolute disqualification, either in wheat or potatoes, to pre- 
vent the one or the other being a standard of value. Wheat, Hke 
any other commodity, possessing value, is capable of being made 
the common measure to which the relative value of all other com- 
modities shall be referred, and the common equivalent or medium 



RESUMPTION OF CASH PAYMENTS. 343 

by the intervention of which, they shall be exchanged the one 
against the other. But this is only saying, that a given measure 
of wheat, a bushel for instance, instead of a given quantity of 
'gold, a sovereign for instance, shall be the money and legal tender 
of the country. For such a purpose, for reasons obvious to all 
who have ever turned their attention to the subject, wheat is one 
of the commodities the least adapted, always however with the 
exception of the new Irish standard, potatoes. 

But the honourable member, I shall be told, does not propose 
to make wheat the currency, but only the standard. I am aware 
of it; but how does this help his theory? How can a given weight 
of gold, of a given fineness, and of a certain denomination, which 
in this country is now the common measure of all commodities, 
be itself liable to be varied in weight, fineness, or denomination, 
according to the exchangeable value of some other commodity, 
without taking from gold the quality of money, and transferring 
it to that other commodity ? All that you do is, in fact, to make 
wheat money, and gold the representativ-e of that money, as paper 
now is of gold. But to say, that one commodity shall be the 
money, and another the standard of that money, betrays a con- 
fusion of ideas, and is little short of a contradiction in terms. As 
well might you propose, that the Winchester bushel should be the 
measure of corn, — and the price of a yard of broad-cloth, the 
standard by which the contents of that bushel should be deter- 
mined. What the honourable gentleman therefore aims at, as I 
conceive, is not that wheat should be either money or standard ; 
but that the standard of money, instead of being fixed, once for 
all, should be varied, from time to time, according to the price of 
wheat ; so that if wheat, upon an average of ten or twenty years, 
should fall, the standard should be lowered, or, what is the same 
thing, the denomination of our money be raised ; and, vice versa, 
if wheat should rise, that the standard should be raised. 

This appeared to me the honourable member's general doctrine, 
but perhaps I have mistaken the application of it: for although 
he suggests the lowering of the standard w^hen the price of wheat 
falls, I heard nothing about raising it when the price rises: and, 
certainly, to do the latter, however called for by reciprocity and 
justice, would militate against his other leading principle — that 
the prosperity of a state depends on the gradual but constant de- 
preciation of its currency. One thing, indeed, would rather con- 
firm my suspicion, that this reciprocity forms no part of his plan ; 
for, during the twenty years which preceded 1819, we never heard 
from him, or any other practical gentleman, a proposal to revise 
the standard, by a comparison of the average price of wheat for 
ten or twenty years preceding : the result of which might have 
been, that every debtor, instead of discharging a debt of 8O5. by 



344 MR. WESTERN'S MOTION ON THE 

the payment of 45s., would have had to pay nearly 8O5. for every 
45 of his debt, during ten or twenty years to come according as 
the one or the other of those terms might have been fixed upon, 
for the periodical revision of the standard. 

Without stopping to inquire, on the one hand, what would have 
been the effect of such a periodical revision at stated intervals, 
since the discovery of the mines of America, or how that effect 
might be varied hereafter by the future productiveness of those 
mines ; and without adverting, on the other hand, to the obvious 
objection, that in this attempt to adjust the standard of money by 
the price of corn, the precious metals may be stationary in their 
relative value to other commodities, whilst their variation in 
respect to corn, may arise from peculiar circumstances bearing 
upon the price of that commodity, such as the growth of wealth 
and population in any particular country, its state of dependance 
or independance of foreign supply, the state of its corn laws, its 
state and relations of peace or war, the fluctuation of the seasons 
for a given number of years, and a variety of other circumstances 
of which we have witnessed the powerful effects during the late 
war, and since the restoration of peace. I say, without dwelling 
on these considerations, I would ask what would be the condition 
of a civilized and opulent country in which evezy pecuniary con- 
tract was to be revised and altered, every ten, or every twenty 
years? The wit of man, I am sure, could not devise a scheme 
better adapted to desti'oy all confidence and credit. Suppose they 
could survive it — which, however, is impossible — to what specu- 
lations, and struggles, ancl devices, would not the system give 
rise, to raise or depress the price of corn according to the con- 
flicting interests of the parties ? If a corn law now agitates the 
country from one end to the other, what would it do then 1 With 
what anxiety would the averages be watched in the last year of 
the term ; and if their fairness be called in question now, what 
would be the suspicions at a time when every pecuniary contract 
for a pound sterling might be lowered to 15s. or raised to 255. for 
the next term, according to the striking of that average? Is this 
the visionary plan which the honourable member for Callington* 
propounds, which the honourable member for Essex inculcates, 
whilst they are branding their opponents as theorists ; because 
they maintain the good old principle, that the standard of money 
once fixed ought to be immutable; because they consider it as 
the guarantee, not only from the state to its own creditors, but 
the pledge, as far as the power of the state can extend, that, in 
pecuniary deahngs between man and man, property shall be 

*Mr. Attwood. 



RESUMPTION OF CASH PAYMENTS. 345 

respected, and that all contracts entered into with sincerity, shall 
be settled in good faith, and executed in justice? 

The iirst essay of this notable plan, if now adopted, would be 
founded on an average taken from a period of war, during which 
the country did not grow corn enough for its own consumption, 
during which it was afflicted with several harvests calamitously 
deficient, and forced to draw corn from abroad under every dis- 
advantage of freight and expense, and during the greatest part 
of which period, too, Ireland was excluded from our market ; — 
compared with an average taken from years of peace and general 
abundance, and when that abundance, joined to the immense 
produce of Ireland, has created a glut in all the markets of the 
empire. 

Several other strange theories and positions were laid down by 
the honourable member for Essex in the course of his elaborate 
speech ; birt as they do not appear to me to have much connex- 
ion with the immediate object of his motion, I shall not waste 
the patience of the House by observing upon them at any length. 
There is one, however, which I cannot help adverting to ; because 
it is a point to which he seemed to attach great importance, and 
to illustrate by many calculations. That point, if I understand 
the honourable member, is this, that we ought to measure the 
pressure of taxation by the price of corn. "In 1813," says the 
honourable member, "the price of wheat being IO85. 9c?., and the 
taxes 74,674,798/., 13,733,296 quarters of wheat were sufficient 
for the payment thereof: in the present year, the price of wheat 
being 45s. — very nearly double that amount of quarters are ne- 
cessary to pay the taxes thereof." I vi'onder, when he was mak- 
ing these comparisons, that he did not extend them to a few other 
years. If he had, he would have found in 1812, for instance, that 
the taxes being 70,435,679/., and wheat at the moderate price of 
125s. 5d. — 11,224,809 quarters of wheat were sufficient for the 
payment thereof. In 1815, that the taxes being 79,948,670/., and 
the price of wheat only 64s. 4d. — 24,854,508 quarters were re- 
quisite for the payment thereof. But, then, 1817 was again a 
prosperous year ; for the taxes being reduced to 55,836,259/., and 
wheat having risen to 94s. 9d. — 11,786,017 were sufficient for the 
payment thereof Now, according to this statement, the years 
1812 and 1817 must have been those of the lightest pressure, and 
1815 and 1821 those in which that pressure was most severe. If 
distress bordering upon famine, if misery bursting forth in insur- 
rection, and all the other symptoms of wretchedness, discontent, 
and difficulty, are to be taken as symptoms of pressure upon the 
people; then I should say, that 1812 and 1817 were two years 
of which no good man can ever wish to witness the like again : 
but, if all the usual consequences of general ease in the great 
2T 



346 MR. WESTERN'S MOTION ON THE 

masses of our condensed population, and all the habitual conco- 
mitants of contented industry, are indications of a better state of 
things, then I should say, that 1815 and 1821 — periods of the 
severest pressure of taxation, according to this new measure of 
its pressure, — are among those years, in which, judging from their 
conduct, the labouring parts of the community have had least 
reason to complain of their situation. 

The high price of the necessaries of life is, at all times, a deli- 
cate topic for public discussion, from the misconceptions to which 
it is liable. I am not one of those who are indiscriminate ad- 
vocates for cheap bread ; on the contrary, I am ready to maintain, 
that a price moderate and reasonable, but, above all, as steady as 
possible, is most for the interest of the consumer ; though I can- 
not admit that the amount of the public burthens, in any particular 
year, is in the inverse ratio of the price of corn, or that a scarcity 
price is a fair test, either of relief generally, or of the alleviation 
of that particular pressure. This forms no part of my creed of 
political economy. Indeed, I should think I was much nearer the 
truth in contending, that such a price of corn as that of 1812, in- 
stead of mitigating the pressure of the taxes, had a tendency to 
abridge the profits of capital and the comforts of the people, in 
much the same way as they would certainly be abridged by any 
great addition to the amount of the previously existing taxes. 

The honourable member, however, is so convinced that, what- 
ever inconvenience the consumers may have experienced from 
the extreme dearness of corn, they are suffering still more severe- 
ly from its present cheapness, that he did not hesitate to offer, in 
support of this inference, a comparison between the quantity of 
corn imported into London in the years 1812 and 1821. In 1812, 
he says, "the quantity imported was 386,921 quarters; and in 
1821, 365,535 only. Here," says the honourable member, "it is 
undeniably proved, that with an increasing demand, we should 
suppose, from a generally increased population, there was a less 
consumption in 1821 at 50s. a quarter, than in 1812 at 125s. a 
quarter." The quantities may be correct, but the explanation is 
obvious. In 1812, the country districts, as well as the metropolis, 
were fed in a great degree by foreign corn imported into the port 
of London. In 1821, all the country markets were glutted with 
corn of our own growth, and the demand in Marklane being 
supplied from those markets, it was, of course, limited to the con- 
sumption of London. This is the simple solution of the honour- 
able gentleman's paradox ; and I really believe that the inference 
which he has drawn from it is entitled to about as much weight 
as his unqualified assertion — " that misery and distress are rapidly 
increasing among all ranks of the people, not excepting those in 



RESUMPTION OF CASH PAYMENTS. 347 

humble life ; and that the proofs of it are to be found in the great 
increase of bankruptcy and crime." 

Except in the increase of the revenue, I have not the means at 
hand of refuting, by documents and figures, the gloomy statements 
of the honourable member; but the revenue has certainly increas- 
ed in all the articles of consumption, and is, I understand, still 
increasing. The honourable member must either disprove this 
fact, or explain how it happens, that universal distress leads to an 
increased consumption of commodities, most of which constitute 
the comforts and luxuries of the middling and inferior classes of 
the community. I believe him to be mistaken in respect to the 
increase of insolvency and crime. tSure I am, that Great Britain, 
as far as I can judge, appears to be more quiet and easily govern- 
ed than at almost any period, which I can recollect, of those hal- 
cyon days when money was depreciated, and when, from that 
depreciation, among other evils which it inflicted on the labouring 
classes, the necessaries of life were not only generally rising, but 
liable to great and rapid fluctuations, within short intervals of 
time, to which the price of labour could not accommodate itself. 

Let it not be supposed, however, that I am insensible to the 
magnitude of the pressure which bears upon other classes of the 
community. It is, as I have said before in this House, the inevita- 
ble consequence of having tampered with the currency. It is an 
evil which has visited all classes in succession, and from the ex- 
perience of which, I trust, future times will take a salutary warn- 
ing. But the honourable member seems to think that this evil has 
fallen with disproportionate severity on the landed interest. This 
I cannot admit. It appears to me that its operation, in this respect, 
is rather a question of time than of degree, by a comparison with 
other interests. During the progress of depreciation, the evil did 
not reach the land-owner with an unencumbered estate. In the 
rise of his rents he found a full compensation for the cheapness 
of money ; aye, more than a compensation, by the excessive spe- 
culation to which the stimulus of that cheapness gave rise. If 
his estate was encumbered, it is obvious that he was relatively 
still more benefited. By the fall of rents the encumbered estate, 
in its turn, feels that fall more severely; but it is as debtor, in 
common and in the same degree only with all other debtors, that 
the interest of the land-owner is aflectcd. Taking the land-owner, 
therefore, abstractedly from any pecuniary engagements, he has 
been the most favoured class of the community. During the 
depreciation he was compensated to its full amount; and he'is no 
loser if he gives up that compensation, now that the evil which it 
countervailed no longer exists. To this extent a fall of rent is to 
him no injury, although it will diminish the nominal nett income 
paid^into his banker's hands. 



348 MR. WESTERN'S MOTION ON THE 

On this point of rent, I know what prejudices and alarms exist 
at this moment; I know that it is a tender subject in this House; 
I know by how many other circumstances, independent of depre- 
ciation, the rents of land may be varied ; and I also know the 
inconvenience of indulging in predictions on public matters; but 
I feel the opinion so confidently, that I will not hesitate to state it 
-—that, after the struggle incident to the present re-adjustment of 
rents shall be over, the result of that re-adjustment, speaking 
generally, will be a very considerable permanent increase upon 
the rental of 1797: — and I state this opinion with the more as- 
surance of its being realized, because such an increase is the 
natural consequence of circumstances unconnected with depre- 
ciation, and over which the return to cash payments can have 
no control. 

Taking, therefore, the land-owner, simply as such, with his 
income doubled during the war, to meet depreciation ; and with 
his income, when that depreciation ceases, considerable larger 
than when it began, is there any other class which has escaped 
with so little injury? It is no answer to this question, to talk of 
increased taxation, and the local burthens upon the land. These 
are evils greatly to be lamented ; but the comparison is between 
the nett money income of the landlord, available for his own pur- 
poses after all local burthens have been paid, and the nett income 
of another member of the community, for instance, the annuitant. 
Both are liable to the same general taxation; and the 100/. re- 
ceived from land, or the 100/. derived from the funds, have no 
preference or distinction in this respect. 

There is, indeed, I state it with deep regret, another class, con- 
nected with the land, whose losses are more severe, and whose 
reverse of fortune is one of the greatest calamities which the 
depreciation, in its consequences, has inflicted upon the country. 
I mean the Tenantry. For that most meritorious body of men, I 
feel the greatest compassion. But here again the same distinction 
applies as in the case of the landlord, between the tenant carrying 
on business upon his own capital, and the tenant under pecuniary 
engagements. Suppose the former to have commenced business 
in the year 1797, with a stock of his own worth 1000/., and 
money at the end of ten years from that time to have been depre- 
ciated fifty per cent., his stock would then have been nominally 
worth 1500/., but, in fact, he would not have been one penny the 
richer, all other commodities having risen in the same proportion: 
and, if money had then been restored to its former value, his 
stock would again have become nominally 1000/., without his 
being in reality one penny the poorer. But, if he had borrowed 
that 1000/., and at the end of ten years had reckoned himself (as 
he had a right to do) worth 500/. more than he owed, that gain 



RESUMPTION OF CASH PAYMENTS. 349 

is now lost, though the capital, in both cases, remains the same. 
Still worse if he borrowed the 1000/. during the depreciation, he 
is now insolvent. In this illustration, the House will trace the 
progress of the evils growing out of a depreciating currency. 
The man who has borrowed 1000/., and finds it increased to 
1500/., naturally concludes that he has been very successful in 
business. He enlarges his expenses, and style of living — his 
neighbour, who witnesses his prosperity, is tempted to follow his 
course; and hence arises a spirit of competition which raises the 
rent of land far beyond even the quantum of the depreciation. 

The same state of things which led to this eager disposition to 
borrow, created also an unbounded facility to lend. What was 
the result upon the moral habits and feelings of the community? 
The sober expectations of industry, together with the old maxims 
and prudent courses by which those expectations have heretofore 
been realized, were neglected and exploded. Profit from depre- 
ciation became confounded with the legitimate return of capital, 
and, in too many instances, the ancient spirit of the British te- 
nantry degenerated into dashing speculation, and consequent 
extravagance. But, will any man say, that the gain arising from 
a constantly growing depreciation, is the fair profit of industry, 
that it is the profit which the law intended to countenance or en- 
courage, or that such a principle, if once avowed, would not soon 
defeat or destroy itself? Can there be a man so short-sighted as 
to believe, that, in the state in which we found ourselves at the 
close of the war, we could content ourselves with doing nothing ? 
There was no alternative between resorting again to a fixed 
standard of value, or going on in a career of constantly increas- 
ing depreciation, which must have hurried the country at last to 
a general catastrophe ; for, I believe, there is no instance of an 
opulent country led away by such a delusion, where it has not 
ended in a convulsion of the property, and generally of the power, 
of the state. 

Having to make an option between these opposite courses, 
parliament in 1819, resolved to return to the ancient standard of 
value. It is this decision which the honourable member arraigns, 
and proposes to you to rescind. It would be difficult for him to 
contend, that it was not the most manly and the most honest 
course ; and I think he has failed to prove that it was not, under 
all circumstances, the wisest and the best. Could I entertain a 
doubt in that respect (which 1 own I do not), it would by no 
means follow that we ought to undo in 1822, that which we had 
done in 1819; and when we have undergone all the sufferings 
and privations incident to the restoration of health, that we should 
again plunge into the same vicious indulgences and irregularities 
as had first brought on the disease. 
30 



350 MR. WESTERN'S MOTION ON THE 

In deciding upon a matter of state policy, of this complicated 
and delicate nature, we cannot do better than to take experience 
for our guide ; because, in looking to the opinions of the wisest 
philosophers, and the proceedings of the greatest statesmen, of 
former days, under similar circumstances, we may at least be 
sure that we are resorting to authorities entitled, in all respects, 
to the greatest deference, but, above all, from their being free 
from the possible suspicion of their judgments being influenced by 
the prejudices, the passions, and the interests of the present day. 
I feel it necessary, on this occasion, to resort to these authorities, 
not on these grounds only, but because I have heard again, from 
the honourable member to-night, an assertion which astonished 
me when it was first made, in a former debate, by the honourable 
member for Westminster,* that " nothing like this depreciation 
and restoration of the currency ever occurred in any country 
before" — an assertion which astonished me the more, as, if my 
memory does not deceive me, that honourable baronet referred, 
on the same occasion, to the occurrences of King William's reign. 
Now, Sir, I affirm, without fear of contradiction : first, that the 
state of the currency in King William's time, prior to the year 
1696, was, in principle, exactly similar to the state in which it 
was prior to the year 1819: secondly, that the restoration of that 
currency, in the year 1696, was p. measure precisely similar, in 
principle, to the present restoration of our ancient standard of 
value : thirdly, that it brought upon the country diflSculties pre- 
cisely of the same nature : and, lastly, that the remedies then 
proposed for those difficulties, and rejected by parliament, as I 
trust the remedies now proposed will be rejected, were exactly 
the same as those which are in the contemplation of the honour- 
able member. 

No man can read the writers and historians of those days, or 
the Journal of Parliament, without being aware that the Currency 
was then greatly debased ; so much so, that the current price of 
the ounce of silver (in the silver coin of the realm, then the only 
legal tender) fluctuated from 65. 3d. to nearly 7s., whilst the 
standard or coinage price was 5s. 2d. Is not this, in principle, 
the same depreciation as that which we have witnessed in our 
time ? In this state of things, parliament, in the month of Decem- 
ber 1695, addressed the king to take measures for the restoration 
of a sound Currency. What were those measures ? — the calling 
in of all the clipped coin (which, having lost nearly half its 
standard weight, till then had passed at its full nominal value), 
and recoining it of full weight, according to the ancient standard. 
Again, is not this, in principle, precisely what we have lately 

* Sir Francis Burdett. 



RESUMPTION OF CASH PAYMENTS. 351 

done ? To show that the currency was then as much depreciated 
as I have stated (a depreciation at least equal to any which w^e 
have experienced, taken at its most exaggerated estimate), it is 
sufficient to mention, that it appears, by a return made from the 
Mint at that time, that five hundred and seventy-two bags of the 
silver coin called in, which ought to have weighed 221,418 ounces, 
did actually weigh only 113,771, leaving a deficiency of 107,647, 
or very nearly one half. 

In respect to my third position, that this restoration of the 
standard by King William, brought upon the country difficulties 
of a similar nature to those which are now complained of, I might 
content myself with referring to historical memoirs, which have 
been long known to the world. But the recent publication of a 
most interesting Correspondence between King William and his 
minister, the Duke of Shrewsbury, so strikingly displays the 
extent of those difficulties, and so directly proves, at the same 
time, and in the most authentic manner, my last position, — that 
the remedies suggested were similar to those which are now pro- 
posed — that I am sure the House will permit me to read to them 
a few short extracts from that correspondence. For its publica- 
tion the world is immediately indebted to Archdeacon Coxe, who 
introduces this part of it with the following statement. Speaking 
of the year 1696, he writes thus: 

" The evils arising from the dilapidated state of the coinage 
had been so long and deeply felt, that in the preceding year, an 
act had passed for the immediate recoinage of the silver money 
which was clipped, and otherwise much decreased in value. The 
measures, however, which were adopted to accomplish so desir- 
able a purpose, created a great, though temporary aggravation 
of the evil : for such a check to the circulation immediately 
ensued, that all the operations of trade were cramped, the collec- 
tion of the public supplies was suspended, guineas were raised to 
the value of thirty shillings, and paper currency was reduced to 
an alarming discount ; bank notes falling twenty, and tallies and 
other government securities sixty per cent. By these causes the 
army was deprived of its regular pay and supplies ; and the letters 
of the King feehngly detail the mischievous consequences which 
ensued."* 

Here we see that the evil, like the depreciation which it has 
fallen to our lot to remedy, had been of long standing; and I 
think this description of its eflects does not fall short even of the 
most desponding and exaggerated pictures of our present diffi- 
culties. In fact, the fall of prices, upon the then restoration of 
the standard, was quite as great as upon the present occasion 

* Archdeacon Coxe's Shrewsbury Correspondence, p. 110. 



352 ^TR- WESTERN'S MOTION ON THE 

The guinea, which was then a comnriodity fluctuating in its cur- 
rent value according to the price of buUion, fell from 30s. to 21s. 
Qd. ; wool, from 36s. to 20s. a tod, and all other commodities in 
nearly the same proportion. But let us refer to the Correspondence 
itself. On the 15th of May 1696, we find the Duke of Shrews- 
bury writing to the King as follows 



Upon the receipt of your Majesty's commands this 



monms:, 



5' 



I engaged the rest of the justices to represent the case of the 
army abroad, to my Lord Godolphin, but found your Majesty's 
new letter to him had made him sufficiently sensible of their con- 
dition. We discoursed this morning with several of the most 
eminent goldsmiths, and with some of the Bank, and had the dis- 
malest accounts from them of the state of credit in this town, and 
of the effects it would soon have upon all the traders in money : 
none of them being able to propose a remedy, except letting the 
parliament sit in June" [an inconvenience it would seem I'nuch 
dreaded by our ancestors in this House, but to which we submit 
with resignation], " and enacting the dipt money to go again, the 
very hopes of vMch locks up all the gold and good Money, and 
would be to undo all that has been done." 

Enacting the clip money to go again ! undoing all that has been 
done ! Is not this precisely what the honourable member for 
Essex points at, by his motion of this evening ? 

I shall now read a very short extract from a Letter of the King 
to the Duke of Shrewsbury, written after he had received a com- 
munication from the Lords Justices to the same etfect as the 
above : — " Camp of Altere, 20th July, 1696. The letter from the 
Lords Justices, of the 14th, has quite overcome me, and I know 
not where I am, since at present I see no resource which can 
prevent the army from mutiny or total desertion." On the 28th 
July, after holding another council, the Duke of Shrewsbury 
writes to the King as follows : " It was universally the opinion of 
all here, that a session in your absence, and in the divisions the 
nation labours under now, would produce nothing but heat among 
themselves, and petitions from all the counties about the state of the 
money ; that they could afford little help as to a present supply, hut 
by the expectation they would raise, that dipt money should be cur- 
rent again, or a recompense allouedfor it ; that the standard should 
he advanced, and the price of guineas improved." 

Would not the house almost suppose, that instead of reading a 
dispatch dated in 1696, 1 was describing, from some letter written 
during the present session, the feelings which parts of the country 
have expressed, and the advice which the weakness of some in- 
dividuals has suggested for our present difficulties? I will only 
read one short extract from the answer of King William to this 
letter; it is dated, " Camp at Altere, 6th August, 1696." " May 



RESUMPTION OF CASH PAYMENTS. 353 

God relieve us from our present embarrassment; for I cannot 
suppose it is his will to sutler a nation to perish, which he has so 
often almost miraculously saved."* 

Sir; when we reflect, that this extract is not taken from a 
speech to parliament, or any document intended to meet the public 
eye, but from a confidential letter from a king to his minister and 
friend, the pious confidence which it breathes, and the beautiful 
simplicity of the language in which that confidence is expressed, 
are equally calculated to raise the general character of that great 
prince in our estimation. 

But let us see a little, in more immediate reference to the present 
subject, under what circumstances this affecting letter was written. 
It was written at the head of his army by a king not insensible to 
military glory. But was military glory all that King William had 
then at stake ? Was he not at the head of that army to defend his 
native land from the encroachments of an ambitious and too- 
powerful neighbour? Was he not engaged in a struggle for the 
liberties of this country, for the liberties of Europe, and (as far 
as a personal object could weigh with him in such a struggle) for 
the crown of England, which had been placed upon his head by 
the Revolution of 1688 ? It was in order to procure the pecuniary 
means of sustaining that struggle, that in the spring of 1696, he 
had sent the Earl of Portland to England. After long consulta- 
tions wdth the ministers, with the Bank, and with the monied in- 
terest, that noble person returned to the king, confirming the 
reports of his council, that no mode of extricating him from his 
difficulties could be suggested, except that which we have already 
seen described, namely, " the re-issuing of the dipt money, and 
the undoing all that has been done." Did King William listen to 
this suggestion, and dishonour his reign by lowering the standard 
of our money? No, Sir. He was a man that knew how to meet 
adversity. His life had been one continued struggle with diffi- 
culties ; but it had been the fixed rule of that life to encounter 
them with an unshaken foi'titude, and a rigid adherence to what 
he considered to be right. This was the quality of his mind, 
without which his other virtues would have lost all their lustre, a 
quality which did not forsake him on this most trying occasion. 

Instead of re-dispatching the Earl of Portland to England to 
concert measures "for undoing all that had been done,'' he sent 
him privately to sound Louis XIV., and to endeavour to bring 
about a negotiation for peace ; and coming himself to England, 
he met his parliament on the 20th of October, 1696. In his Speech 
from the Throne on that day, he earnestly called their attention 
to the state of the Currency, and the difficulties in which the 

♦Archdeacon Coxe's Shrewsbury Correspondence, pp. 116, 129, 132. 
30* 2U 



354 MR. WESTERN'S MOTION ON THE 

country was, in consequence, involved. At that period, this sub- 
ject agitated the country from one end to the other. The Secre- 
tary of the Treasury, Mr. Lowndes, had recommended the lower- 
ing the standard from 5s. 2d. to 6s. 3d. the ounce of silver — an 
operation equivalent to the lowering of the gold standard, at this 
time, from 3/. 175. lO^d. to 41. 14s. (id., — a degree of depreciation 
which, to begin with, would, I believe, almost satisfy even the 
honourable member for Callington. 

The popular feeUng was all on the side of this advice. That 
feeling was manifested in petitions from several counties, and 
most of the great towns. But, did Parliament adopt this advice? 
Far from it. With true wisdom, on the very first day of the 
meeting, immediately after voting an Address in answer to the 
Speech from the Throne, on that same 20th of October, 1696, 
Mr. Montague, the then Chancellor of the Exchequer, proposed, 
and Parliament adopted, the following resolution: — " That this 
House will not alter the Standard of the Gold and Silver Coins of 
this kingdom, in fineness, weight, or denomination.^^ The circum- 
stance of coming to a resolution of this importance, on the very 
first day of the meeting, is the more remarkable, as in those times, 
the Address, in answer to the Speech, was sometimes not voted 
till some days after the opening; but the ministers of King Wil- 
liam felt the great importance of removing all doubts, and of at 
once settling the public mind on this point. 

We know what followed. The ancient standard was maintain- 
ed ; the difficulties gradually subsided ; and every thing finding 
its proper level, all the transactions of the country were restored 
to their former facility. " The receiving, that is to say, the call- 
ing in, the silver money," says a writer of that period, " could not 
but occasion much hardship and many complaints among the 
people ; yet the greatest part attributed this to the necessity of 
affairs, and began to hope, both from the prospect of a peace, and 
wisdom of those at the helm, that they should enjoy more favour- 
able times." 

We are now fortunately in the enjoyment of a peace dictated 
by ourselves, and I trust likely to be durable ; but it must be ad- 
mitted — indeed, the Shrewsbury Correspondence leaves no doubt 
upon the subject — that the peace of Ryswick, a peace by no 
means of the same lofty character, was hastened by the difficulties 
incident to the restoration of the currency. By that peace most 
of the objects of the war were either sacrificed or postponed. It 
was considered, at the time, as little better than a hollow truce, 
submitted to from necessity. But this only confirms the paramount 
importance which the government of King William attached to 
the restoration of the currency. Their view of the peace of 
Ryswick was certainly a just one ; and we all know that, after a 



RESUMPTION OF CASH PAYMENTS. 355 

few years of a feverish armistice, it was followed by a long and 
arduous war. If I refer at all to that war, the war of the Suc- 
cession, it is to recall the recollection of the great share and 
glorious exertions of England in that contest ; and to satisfy the 
House, that whatever were the straits to which the country 
was reduced in 1696, the firm and wise resolution then adopted 
was not incompatible with the speedy restoration of prosperity 
and power. If, in 1696, this House, having then so recently 
restored the ancient landmarks of property, refused, under the 
strongest temptation, both from the state of the war on the con- 
tinent, and from popular feeling at home, again to alter them ; 
shall we, after those same land-marks have now been replaced 
for three years, adopt a measure, which would be as fatal to our 
national character, as it would to the security of individual pos- 
session, to the maintenance of credit in private dealings, and to 
the very existence of the public credit of the state ? 

When projects of this nature are afloat out of doors, and when 
they are now propounded to this House, shall we, with such 
mighty interests at stake, hesitate to manifest our firm determina- 
tion to maintain the present standard of value? Shall we shrink 
from the precedent of 1696? I am as little disposed as any man 
to call upon parliament to bind itself to any general or abstract 
principles, but I own this appears to me an occasion for such a 
proceeding. Under that impression, Sir, however conscious of 
the humble station which I hold in this House and in the country, 
and of its immeasurable distance from that held by the great man 
by whom the resolution of 1696 was moved; but with the same 
feelings for the honour and the best interests of my country, which 
actuated his bosom on that occasion; I shall conclude, thanking 
the House for their indulgence, by proposing to amend the motion 
of the honourable member, by substituting for it the resolution of 
1696; namely, "That this House mill not alter the Standard of 
Gold or Silver, in fineness, weight, or denomination." 

The debate was adjourned till the following day, when the original motion 
was supported by Mr. Bennet, Alderman Heygate, Mr. H. Gurney, Mr. 
Attvvood, and Mr. Brougham ; and the amendment by Mr. Haldimand, Mr, 
Secretary Peel, the Marquis of Londonderry, and Mr. Ricardo, who main- 
tained that the success of the motion would be attended with all the injurious 
effects which Mr. Huskisson had so ably pointed out. The House divided : 
For Mr. Western's Motion, 30. For Mr. Huskisson's Amendment, 194. 
Majority, 164. 



( 356 ) 
USURY LAWS REPEAL BILL. 

FEBRUARY 16. 1824. 

On the 11th, Mr. Serjeant Onslow obtained leave to bring in a Bill " for 
repealing the Laws which prohibit the taking of Interest for Money, or limit 
the rate of it." On the motion, that it be read a second time, 

Mr. HusKissoN said, he had been a member of the Committee 
to whom this subject was referred in the year 1816, and who had 
reported their opinions to the House. The opinion which he had 
formed in that Committee, he still entertained. Indeed he had 
never varied from it. He need hardly say that it was entirely in 
unison with the object of the learned serjeant. He considered the 
Usury Laws as only calculated to add to the difficulties of bor- 
rowing money, to increase litigation, and to encourage fraud. 

FEBRUARY 27, 1824. 

On the motion for going into a Committee on the Bill, Mr. Robertson 
moved, that it be committed on that day six months. The original motion 
was supported by Captain Marberly and Mr. Wynn ; the amendment by Al- 
derman Heygate, and also by Mr. Calcraft, who said, he thought the measure 
of such importance, that the Government should make it their own, and he 
put it to Mr. Huskisson, whether that would not be the more proper course 
to pursue. 

Mr. Huskisson said, that the honourable gentleman had called 
upon him to state in what capacity he supported this measure, 
and had insisted that it ought to be brought forward as a govern- 
ment measure. But surely it would be very strange if the govern- 
ment were to take it out of the hands of a gentleman who had 
had the management of the subject for years, and who was pe- 
culiarly qualified, from the circumstance of his having been the 
Chairman of the former Committee. But, the honourable gentle- 
man seemed to suppose, that if it were not made a government 
measure, all persons connected with Government ought to be pre- 
cluded from voting upon it. Now, he sat there as a member of 
Parliament, like the honourable gentleman himself, to discharge 
his duty to the country, to the best of his abilities, and he would 
be the last man to describe any of those gentlemen who might 
differ from him as dull, or stupid, or prejudiced. It was a subject 



USURY LAWS REPEAL BILL. 357 

on which individuals might very widely and very conscientiously 
differ, without deserving any approbrious names. Because, after 
the best consideration he had been able to give to the measure, 
his opinions were in contradiction to those of the honourable 
gentleman, was that a reason that he should be taunted, as that 
honourabe gentleman had been pleased to taunt him ? 

The view which he took of the question was shortly this ; but 
he by no means pretended to say that he must be right. He 
thought, that any law which attempted to limit the rate of the 
interest of money was oppressive to those who wanted to borrow. 
The honourable gentleman was of opinion that the law was ad- 
vantageous to the borrower ; and yet, by a strange inconsistency, 
in describing the relative situation of the borrower and the lender, 
he maintained that the borrower was the party obliged to yield 
to tlie terms of the lender. The honourable gentleman had also 
alluded to the obloquy which attached to those who lent at a 
large rate of interest. But that obloquy was, as the law now 
stood, an aggravation of the misfortunes of the borrower; who 
was obliged to pay the lender a premium, in order to induce him 
to submit to the obloquy. Nor was it obloquy alone for which 
the borrower was compelled to pay the lender. He was obliged 
to pay for the whole course of evasion to which the existing law 
necessarily gave birth. From the evidence which would be 
proved in the Report of the Committee of 1818; from all that he 
had observed in other respects ; and from all the reflection which 
he had been able to bestow upon the subject, he was perfectly 
satisfied, that the Usury Laws were oppressive and injurious to 
the borrowers of money. 

He was not much surprised that individuals connected with the 
landed interest should have expressed their dissent from a pro- 
position for repealing the present laws. In the first place, the 
landed interest always felt a much greater indisposition to a 
change of any kind, than the commercial did. For his own part, 
however, he was convinced that the law, as it stood, must, in the 
course of years, put the interest of landed proprietors to great 
hazard. It was well known, that, during the late war, it had be- 
come, in consequence of those laws, often difficult to obtain money 
by mortgage on land ; and the consequence was, that the value 
of land had become unduly depreciated. He attached so much 
value to the repeal of the law, by which the interest of money 
was regulated in this country, that, if the gentlemen who had 
mortgages on their estates at five per cent., would be satisfied 
with a clause in the bill, providing that those mortgages should 
not be afiected by the alteration of the law, whatever he might 
think of such a provision, he, for one, would consent to its admis- 
sion. Much had been said of the existence of similar laws in 



358 USURY LAWS REPEAL BILL. 

Other countries. But, was there any resemblance between them ? 
Did the Usury Laws in Holland empower any one to sue a man 
who had been guilty of usury, for penalties trebling in amount 
the principal which he had so lent ? 

The advocates for these laws talked of the ingenious evasions 
which took place respecting it ; but it was of those very evasions 
that he complained. Those evasions were frequently ruinous 
expedients ; and he charged the law with them. Adverting to 
the argument which had been made by an honourable gentleman, 
to show that those who derived their income from money trans- 
actions did not contribute so much to the revenue as the landed 
interest, he contended, that nothing could be more opposite to the 
fact. He was utterly at a loss to conceive how any one could, 
for a moment, suppose that from whatever source income was 
derived, whether from land, from the funds, from commerce, or 
from whatever other quarter, it did not pay equally in taxation 
to the revenue. 

On the question, that the Speaker do leave the chair, the House divided : 
Ayes, 43. Noes, 34. The second reading of the Bill was afterwards post- 
poned for six months. 



( 359 ) 



ALTERATION IN THE LAWS RELATING TO 
THE SILK TRADE. 

MARCH 5, 1824. 

Mr. Baring, in presenting a Petition from the Silk Manufacturers of Lon- 
don, praying that the House would not suffer any Bill to pass into a law, 
which would repeal the prohibition on the importation of Foreign wrought Silk, 
and insisting that the removal of the said prohibition would be ruinous to their 
interests, said, that after all the consideration he could give to the subject, he 
was of opinion, that the Petitioners were in the right. With the application 
of their chemical knowledge to dyeing, and with their other advantages, the 
French would, he said, have such a start in all the branches of their Silk 
Manufacture, that he was sure there would be no person by whom the French 
Silks would not be exclusively used. It was not London alone that would be 
affected. Many country towns, and Taunton in particular, had changed from 
another manufacture to that of Silk. In this instance, he should vote against 
the system of Free Trade, and trusted that Ministers would abandon their 
intention. Mr. Secretary Canning begged the House to consider, if the 
reasoning of the honourable member for Taunton were adopted, in what a 
situation all those were likely to be placed, who were desirous of introducing 
a liberal system of Commercial Policy. It should be recollected, tliat this 
liberal system had been pressed upon Ministers by nearly the whole House, 
but by no individual with so much effect and so much authority, as by the 
same honourable member, who had that night argued so strenuously against 
it. If the proposition of the honourable gentleman were agreed to, it would 
be vain to endeavour to adopt a more liberal system, with regard to Silk, or 
to any other branch of Commerce. Mr. Denman said, that though he had no 
doubt that the ultimate result of the new system of commercial policy would 
be beneficial, a conviction of the inconveniences and hardships attendant on 
the change, would induce him to vote against it 

Mr. HusKissoN said, he was surprised, after what the honour- 
able and learned gentleman had advanced on former occasions, 
that he should have overlooked the main argument for the pro- 

Eosed alteration; namely, the doing away with a system of pro- 
ibition the most offensive of all others in its consequences; as 
under it the officers of the excise were empowered to search the 
persons and the dwellings, not of dealers only, but of any person, 
in search of smuggled silks, and to resort to other modes of detec- 
tion and examination extremely repugnant to the character of 



360 ALTERATION IN THE LAWS 

Englishmen, and which had not unfrequently been even termed 
unconstitutional. 

The honourable member for Taunton had stated, that labour 
was higher in this country than it was abroad. But the honour- 
able gentleman seemed to have forgotten, that if it were dearer, 
as applied to one branch of manufacture, it was dearer with 
respect to all. In this respect Silk was not peculiar ; and it was 
singular, that a mind so acute and enlightened, should have that 
night discovered, for the first time — (probably in consequence of 
some intelligence from Taunton) — that the price of labour in this 
country was dearer than it was on the Continent, in the manu- 
facture of Silk alone. The cotton and woollen trades, and indeed 
all branches, laboured under the same disadvantage ; yet in those 
measures we competed successfully with foreigners. On the 
authority of a French writer who had access to the best sources 
of information, he could assert, without fear of contradiction, that 
at that moment, and subject to these restrictions and to heavy 
duties, the export of Silk manufactured goods from Great Britain 
to the foreign markets, exceeded the whole export of France: 
and from that fact, the House would judge whether, with a duty 
of thirty per cent., the British Silk manufacturer could not be 
quite equal to compete with France in our own market. 

The honourable gentleman had also expressed his astonishment 
that the subject had been brought forward by the Chancellor of 
the Exchequer, without consulting the parties interested, and 
without information obtained through a Committee. Certainly, 
he should have thought that Government had neglected its duty 
if it had not, with regard to the Silk Trade, attended, in some 
degree, to the repeated admonitions of the other side of the House ; 
and recollecting the inquiries that had taken place in the other 
House of Parliament before Committees, the present could not be 
fairly called an attempt to legislate without due information. He 
protested against the assumption, that either that House or the 
Trade had been taken by surprise. The Trade, indeed, had been 
the first to suggest the removal of those restrictions; and he was 
confident they would be nearly the first to rejoice at their removal. 

Mr, Davenport maintained, that the proposed measure would be a damper, 
if not an extinguisher, to the Silk Trade. Mr. Ellice approved of the liberal 
system of policy, but was unwilling to commence the alteration with that 
branch of industry, which was exposed to the greatest chance of successful 
competition. Mr. Secretary Peel entreated the House to consider, in what 
a light it would stand before Europe, if, after declaiming so long in favour 
of the principles of Free Trade, it did not attempt, instead of aiming at tem- 
porary popularity, to establish sound principles of commercial policy. How 



RELATIXG TO THE SILK TRADE. 361 

greatly would those principles be prejudiced, if, knowing them to be irre- 
fragable. Parliament, not having the courage to encounter difficulties, were 
to yield to the fears of the timid, or the representations of the interested. 

MARCH 8, 1824. 

The House having resolved itself into a committee of the whole House, on 
the Acts charging duties of Customs on goods, wares, and merchandize, and 
for granting Bounties on Linen and Silk Manufactures, 

Mr. HusKissoN rose, and spoke to the following effect : — 

Although my right honourable friend, the Chancellor of the 
Exchequer, when he brought forward his general exposition of 
the Finances of the country, stated, with a perspicuity so pecu- 
liarly his own, the grounds upon which he should think it ex- 
pedient to recommend to Parliament an alteration in the laws 
relating to the Silk Trade ; yet, as considerable objections have 
been taken to this part of my right honourable friend's plan, both 
in this House and out of doors, however unable I may be to 
follow in the steps of my right honourable friend, I trust I shall 
have the indulgence of the Committee, while I state, in his un- 
avoidable absence, the views of his Majesty's Government on this 
important subject. 

To the general plan proposed by my right honourable friend, 
two descriptions of objections have been taken in this House and 
out of doors. The first class of objections proceeds from those 
who consider that it would be more desirable, that any relief 
which can be afforded, in the present state of the finances of the 
country, should fall upon some of the direct taxes. The second 
class of objections is urged by those who are desirous that the 
laws relative to the trade in Silk should remain as they are. 

Now, with respect to the first class of objections, I own it ap- 
pears to me, that the course in which his Majesty's Government 
have had to travel — since the state of the finances of the country 
has been such as to warrant them in considering what ought to 
be the proper subjects for the remission of taxation — has been to 
make the remission in the way most consonant with the w^ishes 
and interests of the people. In commencing measures of relief, 
his Majesty's Government felt the greatest anxiety; as it was 
their first duty, to afford assistance to those humbler classes of 
society, which had been more immediately affected by the in- 
crease of taxation, during the war, on certain articles of general 
consumption. In this view, the salt and the malt taxes have been 
considerably reduced. The leather tax has also been reduced ; 
and last, though not least in their operation and effects on the 
lower classes of the people, lotteries have been entirely abolished. 
31 2V 



362 ALTERATION IN THE LAWS 

A very considerable remission has also been made in the taxation 
affecting the middle classes of society. 

Having thus extended relief to the amount of seven millions of 
taxes to the different classes of society, it has been asked, why 
Mve did not proceed in that course, by a further diminution of the 
assessed taxes? I am ready to admit that this would have been a 
desirable and a popular course; for nothing certainly is more 
unpleasant than the feeling with which a man pays money out of 
his pocket to a tax-gatherer, without having any thing to show 
for the money so paid but a receipt. We felt it our duty, how- 
ever, to examine whether it might not be possible, not only to 
afford some relief in the way of taxation, but at the same time to 
make that relief conducive to the advancement of the industry, 
the wealth, and the prosperity of the country. We considered, 
whether the present moment was not peculiarly favourable for 
carrying into effect those principles of Commercial Pohcy which 
were calculated to produce these important results. 

The state of our possessions in India has been recently alluded 
to ; and certainly it is an object of no slight importance to con- 
sider, whether, by some convenient and practical arrangements, 
an extended mart may not be obtained for the native productions 
of our vast empire in that quarter. If we look also to the im- 
mense changes which are taking place in the colonial system of 
the world, it is peculiarly incumbent on this country not to lose 
sight of the great commercial advantages which may be derived 
from the immense mart which is opened by those changes, for 
the extension of our manufactures and commerce. It is true, that 
at this moment the provinces of South America are engaged in a 
struggle with the mother country, and that in many parts the 
government is still unsettled ; but it is almost equally certain, that 
they can never return to that state of dependence, with reference 
at least to commercial relations, in which they were placed be- 
fore the recent changes. When we consider the immense pro- 
gress in the commercial relations between this country and the 
United States of America, since they established their indepen- 
dence, it is not too much to assume — allowing for the difference 
on the score of industry, skill, enterprise, and wealth, between the 
United States and South America, but still looking to the popula- 
tion of the latter, and to the extent of country over which that 
population is spread, — it is not, I say, too much to assume, that, 
under any system calculated to promote industry, South America 
will open a mart to our commerce, of which our present experi- 
ence is but an earnest of its future extent. 

In such a state of things, if we find, in legislating with a view 
to extended commercial advantages, that a particular branch of 
our manufactures is clogged and impeded in its progress by im- 



RELATING TO THE SILK TRADE. 363 

politic laws and regulations — such as restrictions on the freedom 
of labour, duties on the raw material, drawbacks improperly or 
inadequately applied, being in some cases more than are neces- 
sary, and in others not sufficient, — I think it then becomes the 
duty of a Government, having a small excess of revenue, care- 
fully to inquire, whether it may not be better to forego the im 
mediate benefit of a reduction of direct taxation, in order to 
remove such impolitic restriction. 

It has been truly observed by the honourable member for 
Taunton, that the excess of revenue, on which my right honour- 
able friend calculated as a permanent excess on which to found 
a remission of taxation, did not exceed 500,000/. Indeed, my 
right honourable friend himself stated, that he had taken a saving 
upon four years, amounting to 200,000/. ; this saving arising, in 
part, from sources which could not be regarded as permanent. 
My right honourable friend has done this, under the feeling, that 
if ever we were to change the system, by which our Commerce 
and Manufactures were impeded, the present was a favourable 
moment for so doing. And he has contemplated, not merely the 
relief which would be derived from the extent to which taxation 
was remitted, but that further relief which might reasonably be 
expected to grow out of the increasing prosperity of the country. 
In promoting new branches of industry, public wealth, and com- 
mercial prosperity, we are sowing those seeds which, in the ful- 
ness and fecundity of future harv^ests, will afibrd us the means of 
future relief from other burthens; and which, if unfortunately the 
country should again be involved in war, will supply the best 
means by which our efforts will be sustained. 

It is upon these principles, notwithstanding the unpopularity 
which they might bring upon themselves, that his Majesty's 
Government have determined to persevere in recommending to 
Parliament to make the alterations in the Laws relative to the 
Silk and Woollen Trades ; the grounds of which alterations were 
so ably opened by my right honourable friend on the former 
occasion. 

It has, I am aware, been said, that the views taken by his 
Majesty's Government, of the disadvantages under which the Silk 
Trade labours from the existing laws, have not been supported 
by those engaged in that trade. The honourable member for 
Cheshire* has said, that the trade is perfectly satisfied with the 
present state of the law ; and the honourable member for Taun- 
ton asserts, that no person in the trade wishes for any change. 
Now, until I heard the assertion made in this House, I did not 
believe that there were any persons in the trade who did not wish 

* Mr. Davenport. 



364 ALTERATION OF THE LAWS 

to be relieved from the shackles and disadvantages under which 
they have hitherto laboured; for it occurred to me, that, during 
the last session of Parliament, almost all the principal persons 
concerned in the Silk Trade petitioned the House to be relieved 
from these very restrictions. And on looking to the petition pre- 
sented by the Silk Manufacturers of London and Westminster, I 
find, that, so far from being satisfied with these restrictions, they 
express themselves thus : 

" Important as this manufacture is acknowledged to be, and 
much as it has been recently extended, it is still depressed below 
its natural level, and prevented, by existing laws, from advancing 
to a far higher degree of prosperity than it has hitherto attained, 
and which, under more, favourable circumstances, it would, with- 
out difficulty, realize. Possessing, as this country does, access to 
an unlimited supply of silk from its eastern possessions, an inde- 
finite command over capital and machinery, and artizans whose 
skill and industry cannot be surpassed, your petitioners hesitate 
not to express their conviction, that, by judicious arrangements, 
the Silk Manufacture of Great Britain may yet be placed in a 
situation ultimately to triumph over foreign competition ; and that 
silk, like cotton, may be rendered one of the staple commodities 
of the country." 

With such statements before him, my right honourable friend 
came down to the House, under the conviction that this trade 
was greatly depressed, and sufiering especially from the duty im- 
posed on the raw material. It will scarcely be necessary for me 
to enter into any arguments of a general nature, to show the im- 
policy of such a duty, or the thousand checks and disadvantages 
to which the trade is exposed, from regulations interfering with 
freedom of labour. I have heard no general argument advanced 
in favour of the state of things to which I have alluded. I have, 
indeed, heard some limited arguments put forward by honourable 
gentlemen opposite, which apply more immediately to the peculiar 
situation of this particular trade. The honourable member for 
Coventry, for instance, told us, on a former evening, that silk was 
not a native manufacture of this country. The honourable mem- 
ber for Taunton even went so far as to assert, that the silk manu- 
facture, like peculiar kinds of fruit, could only flourish in particular 
places ; and I confess that the instance which the honourable 
gentleman adduced in support of his proposition, struck me as 
somewhat a whimsical one ; for he told us, that Taunton, which 
has at present several very extensive silk manufactures, was, 
thirty or forty years ago, unacquainted with the article, but pos- 
sessed a considerable manufacture of woollens. Now, Sir, I 
cannot say who the individual was that represented that very 
respectable borough in Parliament, thirty or forty years ago. He 



RELATING TO THE SILK TRADE. 365 

might have been a very eniuient merchant, and most influential 
and enlightened member of this House; lie might, for aught I 
know, have been familiarly conversant with the principles of 
political economy — a staunch and determined advocate of free 
trade — a zealous disciple of Adam Smith, whose opinions were, 
about that time, first published to the world ; but, if the Chancellor 
of the Exchequer of that day ha"d come down to the House, and 
said, " I am desirous to place the cotton manufactures" — (which 
were then subject to the same heavy duties which now attach to 
the silk trade) — " upon the same footing as other manufactures, 
with respect to which something like a free trade exists — I wish 
to give to that branch of our industry an opportunity of extending 
itself as far as it is capable in this country," doubtless, the then 
honourable member for Taunton, be he who he might, represent- 
ing the woollen manufactures of his constituents, would have risen 
in his place, and said, "How can you think of proposing any thing 
so injurious to the best interests of the country? The woollen 
manufacture has for ages been the staple trade of this country ; 
and how can you expect that England, which possesses so little 
machinery, can compete with the fine and delicate textures which 
proceed from the Indian cotton manufactories, where labour is so 
cheap ?" These are precisely the same objections which are now 
put forward by the honourable gentlemen opposite against the 
proposed alteration in the Silk trade. The House is told, that the 
manufacture of silk is not capable of being extended by the use 
of machinery, and that its production requires more labour tlian 
the cotton manufacture. Had this- grave objection been taken at 
the period to which I have alluded, the language of the honour- 
able member for Taunton of that day would doubtless have been 
— "You surely will not touch the staple manufacture of England! 
Look at the alteration which is taking place in the dress of our 
females ! Only think what the consequences will be, when native 
flannel petticoats and woollen hose shall have fallen into disuse !" 
And I dare to say it would have been adduced, as an instance of 
the " wisdom of our ancestors," and the strongest possible proof 
of the high consideration in which the woollen manufacture had 
always been held, that the very shrouds of the dead were, by 
law, required to be composed exclusively of that native manu- 
facture. 

At this stage of the question, I entreat the attention of the Com- 
mittee, whilst I state what has been the progress of the cotton 
manufacture, in the short period to which I have alluded; and I 
do so because I feel, and indeed it cannot be doubted, that the 
arguments which are now applied to the proposed change in the 
silk trade, were then applicable to the cotton manufacture. I 
know. Sir, of nothing in the history of commerce — I am not ac- 
31* 



366 ALTERATION IN THE LAWS 

quainted with any thing in the history of our manufacturing pros- 
perity — that can be at all compared with the wonderful change 
which has taken place in the cotton trade. 

It is perfectly true, that forty years ago the manufacture of 
woollens was the great staple of the country. In the year 1780, 
the whole export of manufactured cotton goods, of every descrip- 
tion, amounted in value to only 355,000/. In 1785, which was 
two years after the restoration of peace, and when the commerce 
of the country had in some measure recovered from the difficulties 
under which it necessarily laboured during the war, the whole 
extent of our cotton exports, of every description, amounted to no 
more than 864,000/. ; whilst, at the same period, the exports of 
woollen manufactured goods amounted to considerably more than 
four millions; the proportion between the two commodities being 
at that time as five to one. But how stands the case at present ? 
Why, Sir, from that period to the present, that is from the year 
1785 to the year 1822, — incredible almost as it may appear — the 
exports alone of manufactured cotton goods have risen to the 
enormous amount of 33,337,000/. ; being forty times greater than 
it was in the year 1785. Of course, I am speaking from the 
official estimate. But with respect to the woollen manufactures, 
the great staple trade of the country in former times, the exports 
do not, at the present moment, amount to more than 6,000,1300/.; 
being not so much as one-fifth the amount of the exports of cotton. 
Why then. Sir, when I see the pre-eminent advantages which 
have arisen from the circumstance of allowing capital to run in a 
free and unrestrained channel — when I contemplate the benefits 
which the country has derived from the application of sound and 
liberal principles to this single branch of commerce — am I not 
justified in endeavouring to prevail upon the House to extend 
still further those principles, which have produced such salutary 
results ? 

Hitherto, I have only stated what the growth of our cotton 
manufactures has been, with respect to our exports. In so doing 
— as I have already stated, — I took the official value; and this 
was perfectly fair, because I did so with both articles; although, 
of course, the official value is somewhat higher than the real. 
But, according to the best information I have been able to obtain 
on the subject — and I have taken some pains to acquire it — I be- 
lieve I am not overstating the fact, when I state, that the real 
value of cotton goods consumed at home, within the last year, 
amounted to 32,000,000/. sterling. 

Now, I know I shall be asked, how does all this apply to the 
question of the Silk Trade, which is produced by little labour, 
and from a comparatively small quantity of raw material ? But 
when I state, that of the thirty-two millions' worth of manufactured 



RELATING TO THE SILK TRADE. 367 

goods, not more than six millions were invested in the raw ma- 
terial, and that the remaining twenty-six millions went to the 
profits of the cajDitalists and the income of the persons employed 
in the manufacture, I believe no man who takes a statesman-like 
view of the subject, will doubt the soundness of the proposition 
with which I set out; namely, that when you remove the restric- 
tions and burthens from any particular branch of industry, you 
not only afford relief to the extent of the tax remitted, but you 
lay the foundation for commercial enterprise, of the beneficial 
effects of which it is impossible to foresee the extent. I would 
ask any man who has attentively considered the resources of this 
country, whether, if the restrictions had not been removed from 
the manufacture of cotton, (the continuance of which restrictions 
would necessarily have impeded its extension) this country could 
possibly have made the gigantic exertions which it put forth during 
the last war? I would ask, whether the number of persons em- 
ployed in this manufacture, to the amount, I believe, of one million 
two hundred thousand souls, whose wants are supplied in return 
for their labour, does not afford more real encouragement to the 
agriculture of the country, than any regulation for keeping up 
artificial prices could possibly effect? It is to the increasing wealth 
of the manufacturing population and the progress of industry, and 
not to artificial regulations for creating high prices, that this 
country must look, not only for relief from her present burthens, 
but for the power of making fresh exertions, whenever her situa- 
tion may demand them. It is not in the power of any artificial 
measures to give that real relief to agriculture, or to any other 
mode of occupation, which can only flow from the increasing 
activity and unceasing industry of the people. 

The most remarkable feature in the history of the Cotton 
Manufacture is the impetus which it has given to invention, the 
numerous valuable discoveries which it has brought forth, the 
ingenuity which it has called into action, — the tendency and efl^ect 
of all which have been, to produce the article at the lowest possi- 
ble rate. Each of these valuable improvements occasioned, at 
the time, some inconvenience to those who had before produced 
the manufacture by manual labour; but the result has been, that 
not only has much more capital been beneficially vested in 
machinery, but a greater number of hands have been employed 
to manage it, in proportion as the prospect of fresh resources 
■was opened to the manufacturer. 

But what is the situation of the Silk Trade, under the system 
of entire prohibition from foreign competition, which some honour- 
able gentlemen consider as its greatest advantage? Why, Sir, the 
system of monopoly in this trade has produced, what monopoly 
is always sure to produce, an indifference with regard to improve- 



368 ALTERATION IN THE LAWS 

ment. That useful competition, which gives life to invention, 
which fosters ingenuity, and in manufacturing concerns promotes 
a desire to produce the article in the most economical form, has 
been completely extinguished. The system of prohibitory duties, 
■which has been maintained with respect to the Silk Trade, has 
had the effect — to the shame of England be it spoken ! — of leaving 
us far behind our neighbours in this branch of industry. We 
have witnessed that chilling and benumbing effect, which is always 
sure to be felt, when no genius is called into action, and when we 
are rendered indifferent to exertion by the indolent security of a 
prohibitory system. I have not the slightest doubt, that if the same 
system had been continued with respect to the cotton manufac- 
ture, it would at this moment be as subordinate in amount to the 
woollen, as it is junior in its introduction into this country. 

I am afraid. Sir, I have already trespassed too long on the 
patience of the Committee; but I have been anxious to impress 
upon the House, and the country generally, that if there be a 
chance of giving new life and vigour to any branch of industry, 
which has either been in a state of stagnation or slow in its pro- 
gress, there are at present, in the situation of the world, circum- 
stances calculated to afford relief which never before existed ; 
and I must say, that those who, blindly desirous of procuring im- 
mediate relief for the country by the remission of direct taxes, 
would neglect the ample, extended, and tempting field which now 
lies open before us, do not take a wise or a statesman-like view 
of the subject. Now, Sir, it is not merely for the reasons which 
I have attempted to explain, that I support the proposition of my 
right honourable friend, but ^also with reference to the general 
principle that all prohibitory duties are bad on articles of general 
consumption ; and I wish to direct the serious attention of the 
Committee to the real nature of the prohibitory system. I would 
ask, if there be any evils in our penal code which can be at all 
compared with that system of prohibition which some gentlemen 
are so desirous to uphold? By the present laws, any individual, 
no matter who, the commonest ruffian in the street, may snatch 
from a gentleman any article which he suspects to be of foreign 
manufacture. Can any thing be less congenial to the spirit of 
English law, than this — that a man may enter the dwelling-house 
of his neighbour, and make a diligent search, because he suspects 
that some prohibited article is to be found in it ? Have we not 
heard of excise officers stopping gentlemen's carriages, and sub- 
jecting them to a diligent search, upon the bare suspicion of their 
containing contraband goods ? 

But, Sir, are these the only considerations which ought to in- 
duce us to abandon the system? See to what an extent of fraud 
and perjury they give encouragement ? The higher classes of 



RELATING TO THE SILK TRADE. 369 

society will have these prohibited articles. In fact, these prohibi- 
tory regulations are like the game laws. If you continue them 
you must expect to have poachers. It is the higher classes of 
society who are responsible for all the breaches of those laws — 
laws which are made, not for the protection ofthe subject, but to 
produce an imaginary benefit, which I consider a real detriment, 
to the very manufacture whicii it is intended to serve. I profess 
to be very unlearned on these subjects, but I understand, that any 
man upon applying to the Court of Exchequer, may obtain what 
is called " a writ of assistance," by virtue of which he is em- 
powered to enter any gentleman's dwelling, which is thus placed 
upon the footing of a gambling-house, and subjected to the search 
ofthe pohce. 

The arguments of those who are opposed to the plan of my 
right honourable friend appear to be very singular. Tlie opera- 
tive classes, and the master manufacturers who have petitioned 
against the removal of the system, have done so upon the princi- 
ple, that the prohibition is necessary for the maintenance of the 
trade ; and although they frankly confess, that whatever goods 
the caprice and fashion of the day may require to be introduced 
into this country, may be imported at an insurance of 15 per 
cent., and sold in any shop in the kingdom, yet these very per- 
sons say that an ad valorem duty of 30 per cent, would be insuf- 
ficient to afford them protection. Upon this subject, it is neces- 
sary that I should refer to the evidence which was adduced by 
these very persons before the Committee of the House of Parlia- 
ment. It is at all times a disagreeable and tedious thing to do ; 
but it will be curious for the Committee to examine the fact; 
since they will find that all the witnesses upon that occasion 
spoke to the necessity of the proposed alteration. To such incon- 
sistencies are men sometimes driven in the pursuit of a particular 
object ! 

We are now told, that thirty per cent, will not be sufficient 
protection for the British manufacturer; but upon this subject it 
will only be necessary to refer the Committee to the evidence of 
two American merchants who visited England and France, in 
order to purchase silks to sell in America. One of them (Mr. 
Farnsworth) was asked — " In what respect do you consider the 
French silk goods to be either inferior or superior to ours ?" He 
answered, "Their goods are generally afforded at a less rate 
than the English of similar quality, and upon that account they 
will have the preference of sale." He was then asked, " At what 
per cent, would you estimate the difference of value of goods of 
nearly the same quality ?" He replied, " Upon examining the 
goods here, I have made up my mind that there is something like 
twenty or twenty-five per cent, difference between the French 
2-W 



370 ALTERATION OF THE LAWS 

and English goods in blacks, and rather more in colours." In the 
article of ribands, he answered unhesitatingly, that there was a 
dift'erence of twenty-five per cent. Here, then, is an American 
merchant who comes to Europe to make his purchases, and finds 
this to be the difference between the French and English manu- 
factures — which difference, the committee will perceive, is five 
per cent, lower than the duty which is intended to be left for the 
protection of the English manufacturer, 

I will now refer the Committee to the evidence of Mr. Hale — 
an eminent manufacturer in Spitalfields, well known to many 
members of this House for his probity, his active benevolence, 
and his great desire to promote the comforts and happiness of 
those who are in his employment. This gentleman's evidence 
must be considered extremely valuable, not only on account of 
his personal respectability, but his perfec); competence to form a 
correct judgment on these matters. Mr. Hale says, " When I 
was at Paris, the manufacturers there, having no idea that I was 
a Spitalsfield's manufacturer, offered, upon my payment of an 
insurance of ten per cent., to send me any quantity of manufac- 
tured silks, which I might choose to select, to any part of London 
I pleased, notwithstanding their liability to be seized as French, 
wherever they might be found." I beg the attention of the Com- 
mittee to what follows : On being asked, " Do not a great many 
French goods find their way into this country?" Mr. Hale 
replied, " Yes ; but I do not consider that an evil ; because there 
was a disposition in this country to wear any thing that comes 
from France, and we have frequently found that when a new 
pattern has been introduced, it has immediately been copied ; and 
that for one real French piece sold, there have been a thousand 
imitations sold." But Mr. Hale did not stop here : he went on to 
state, " It is not an uncommon thing for our manufacturers to 
copy the pattern immediately, and send these goods to Brighton ; 
where, by the aid of fishermen and smugglers, the silks are dis- 
posed of as French, at a much higher price than would have 
been given in London." * 

Now, Sir, do not these facts prove to a demonstration, that 
with a protecting duty of thirty per cent., the British manufac- 
turer will be able to compete with foreign manufactures? In 
which case, the revenue will be benefited, and there will be no 
ministering to the perverted taste of those who can derive no 
satisfaction from a garment, unless it be worn in violation of the 
law of the land, and affords encouragement to the smuggler. It 
is, therefore, idle to suppose, that with the great improvements 
which have taken place in the machinery employed in the Silk 
manufacture, since the trade escaped from the trammels of 
Spitalfields, and established itself in Manchester and other places, 



RELATING TO THE SILK TRADE. 371 

the English Silk manufacture, with adequate protecting dutiesy 
will not be able to compete with that of" France. Indeed, I have 
this day seen the deputation from Manchester, and they do not 
hesitate distinctly to say, that if time be granted to enable them 
to complete their arrangements, they can meet the French manu- 
facturer in any country in the world, and will not be afraid of 
being distanced. [Hear ! hear ! from Mr. Philips.] The honour- 
able gentleman will, by-and-bye, have an opportunity of contra- 
dicting this statement, if it be not correct ; but I can assure the 
Committee, that since this subject was opened by my right hon- 
ourable friend, the Ciiancellor of the Exchequer, there has been 
no want of due diligence, either on his part or mine, to make 
ourselves masters of this difficult question, by communication 
with those who were the best able to afford us information ; and 
whilst, on the one hand, we are accused of having acted too 
precipitately, and, on the other, of not having come with suf- 
ficient expedition to a decided result, I trust we shall at least be 
acquitted of any want of exertion to form the best judgment that 
we could upon the matter. With respect to the charge of delay, 
it was impossible for us to come to a final determination, until we 
had seen how all the parties interested were likely to be affected. 
I shall be told, I am well aware, that the persons concerned in 
the trade are the best judges of their own particular interests. I 
entertain. Sir, as great a deference as any man for the opinions 
which persons connected with any branch of manufacture may 
express on matters of detail ; and in my official situation it is my 
duty to consult frequently with those from whom I can obtain 
information ; but I trust it will not be considered inconsistent with 
the respect which I feel for those persons to declare, that, with 
respect to general propositions, I do not conceive them to be the 
best judges of what may be most conducive to the public inter- 
est. Without meaning, in the slightest degree — on the contrary, 
disclaiming the intention — to impute to those engaged in any par- 
ticular pursuit a disposition to uphold themselves to the detriment 
of the community, I must, nevertheless, say, that a system of 
monopoly must be favourable to great capitalists; although, at 
the same time, it cramps trade generally, and does a great injury 
to the community. I am perfectly aware, that the proposed 
alterations must affect particular interests materially. The reduc- 
tion of the duty on the raw material will doubtless create uneasi- 
ness with the broker, who at present receives his commission 
before the duty is jjaid. But there always will be partial interests 
that must suffer for a time; and all that Parliament can do, and 
all that it is its duty to do, is to deal with those interests which 
are affected by any great change, as tenderly as possible. One 
of the most numerous parties interested in the system of monopo- 



372 ALTERATION OF THE LAWS 

ly, and most industrious in exciting a feeling out of doors against 
the intended change, are those persons who, under tlie prohibitory- 
system, are benefited by smuggUng. They are very naturally 
afraid that their illegal trade will suffer, and that, if there be no 
prohibition, no lady will fancy a French article when she can 
obtain an English one; so that, in fact, the ladies' maids and 
their mistresses are not the least part of the confederacy against 
the proposed arrangement. 

Having now. Sir, stated the general grounds on which we call 
upon Parliament to give its support to Government, in the im- 
portant change which is contemplated, I shall proceed to explain 
the mode in which it is intended to be carried into execution. 
The difficulty with which Government has had to contend is this : 
— It is obvious, that if we were to postpone the remission of the 
duties, an impression would be created in the mind of the con-- 
sumer, that by deferring his purchases, he would be able to obtain 
the article at a much lower rate than the proposed remission 
would justify him in supposing; and the obvious effect of such a 
feeling on the part of the consumer would be to throw some 
manufacturers out of employment ; a circumstance, which ought, 
if possible, to be avoided. It appeared, therefore, to his Majesty's 
Government, on the best consideration we could give the subject, 
that the wisest course we could take, with a view of putting an 
end to all the disquiet which at present exists among those who 
depend for subsistence on their daily labour in that manufacture, 
would be to make the remission of the duty as entire and as 
speedy as possible. I shall therefore propose, that the remission, 
instead of taking place on the 5th of July, as was originally 
intended, shall take place as early as the 25th of the present 
month. 

Having taken this course to prevent stagnation in this branch 
of our commerce, to obtain employment for those who cannot 
live without it, and to give a stimulus to the manufacturer to 
continue his present speculations and extend his future enterprises, 
his Majesty's Government found themselves placed in a situation 
of some difficulty, with regard to those who had a stock of the 
raw material on hand — a stock which will, I am afraid, from the 
recent sales at the East-India House, be found to be not incon- 
siderable. Still, however, as we conceived, it was not impossible 
to come to a satisfactory arrangement. The arrangement which 
we preferred was this — to allow all persons having a stock of 
raw silk on hand, or a stock of thrown silk not in a manufactur- 
ed state, to return it into the warehouse, to reclaim the duty on 
the quantity so warehoused, and afterwards to take it out again, 
on the 25th of March, subject only to the new rate of duty. The 
result of this arrangement will be, that the present stock will only 



RELATING TO THE SILK TRADE. 373 

be inapplicable to the purposes of the manufacturer, during the 
interval between the present day and the '2r)th ol" March — an 
interval so short as to prevent any suspension from taking place 
in the employment of the looms; for I am confident that the 
throwsters will never think of stopping their operatives for so 
trifling a difficulty as this measure seems likely to place in their 
way. It is perfectly true, that to that part of the stock which 
has been worked and distributed, we cannot extend the new 
arrangement. There some hardship must be felt; but if there, 
be any thing in this objection, it is one which applies to all simi- 
lar cases, and can be urged at all times when alterations come to 
be made in the existing duties. But it is probable, that this incon- 
venience will be less felt in the present instance, since, owing to 
the course of monopoly, the fluctuations in the price of the article 
have frequently been greater than the duty now remitted. But 
whether it be so or not, it would be an endless and impracticable 
task to go about to every haberdasher's shop throughout the 
country, to ascertain the precise quantity of the manufactured 
material on hand. In the course of the last year the article 
fluctuated from sixty, which was the highest, to forty shillings, 
in the course of a few months ; and the Committee will perceive 
that this was a difference exceeding the rate of the duty. 

These, Sir, are the principal points which I have to submit to 
the Committee, relative to the duties on silk. I now come to the 
other part of the proposition ; namely, that which relates to the 
prohibition. It does appear to me — and on this point I am sup- 
ported by the opinion of several eminent manufacturers — that, 
owing to the monopoly with which this trade has, for some time, 
been cursed, we are not upon a level in machinery, in working, 
and in colours, with the manufacturers of the Continent. That 
we are incapable of rising to an equality with them on this, as 
we have excelled them in other branches of manufacture, it would 
be difficuh, upon any rational ground, to assert. It is the opinion 
of many experienced individuals, that if the prohibition were taken 
off, we should soon, not only be equal with, but even surpass them 
in every branch of the manufacture ; but while we are in this 
state, and while the feeling exists, which is calculated to aggra- 
vate the fact to our disadvantage, it is the duty of Parliament to 
approach the subject with some regard even for the prejudices of 
the parties concerned. Instead, therefore, of making the repeal 
of the prohibition contemporaneous with the remission of the 
duties, I propose that it shall continue up to July, 1826,* I do 

* The newspapers state, that " at this part of Mr. Huskisson's speech, there 
was a clapping of hands among the Silk Manufacturers, with whom the 
gallery was filled." 
32 



374 ALTERATION OF THE LAWS 

this under the impression, that something is due to the general 
feeling entertained upon the subject; and because I am, com- 
paratively, indifferent as to the period when the principle shall 
come into full operation, so that I can but see a prospect of its 
being ultimately established. 

Such, Sir, are the measures which I have to submit to the 
Committee in the shape of a resolution ; and I have now to thank 
it for the attention with which I have been listened to, while I 
have explained the principles on which that resolution is founded. 
There is one part of the arrangement which I omitted to state ; 
but it is of so much importance that it ought to be mentioned. I 
allude to a provision which we have in view, for allowing all 
manufactured goods intended for exportation to be deposited in 
warehouses, and for admitting the depositoi's to the full benefit of 
the drawback on the goods deposited. The advantage of this 
arrangement will be, that any manufacturer who may happen to 
have a stock immensely large, will be enabled to receive the 
drawback on it before he exports it ; and will thus be placed, up 
to a certain point, on a level with those who have purchased the 
raw material, under the proposed remission of duty. 

It is not. Sir, from an overweening attachment to any particular 
theory of political economy, that I have been induced to urge these 
principles upon the attention of the Committee; but because I 
believe them to be such as no men can call in question, and be- 
cause 1 am convinced, that the application of them, in this parti- 
cular instance, cannot fail to be eminently serviceable to the 
country. I have, in the course of my public life, seen too much 
of the uncertainty of theories, to be an enthusiast in favour of 
any. If I am accused of leaning strongly to liberal principles 
with regard to trade, I at once plead guilty to the charge : but 
they are principles founded in experience, and sanctioned by the 
highest authorities. In my opinion, to be liberal in matters of 
commercial policy is to remove the difficulties and jealousies 
which have hitherto prevented a free intercourse between different 
nations, to extend to each the advantages and enjoyments of the 
other, and to promote arts, sciences, and civiUzation: and when 
we speak with reference to the commercial interests of this* 
country, the argument is strengthened instead of being weakened. 
Her wealth, her industry, her talent, her prosperity, are all so 
many inducements for us to liberalize the system. In short. Sir, 
I would be liberal to other countries, because, amongst other 
reasons, I feel that by being so, I best consult the interest of 
my own. 

The right honourable gentleman concluded, amidst loud cheers 
from ail parts of the House, which were again re-echoed by the 
silk manufacturers in the Gallery, with moving his first Resolu- 



RELATING TO THE SILK TRADE. 375 

tion; viz. "That from and after the 25th of March, 1824, the 
several duties and drawbacks on the importation and exportation 
of the several sorts of Silk hereinafter mentioned, shall cease and 
determine; and also that from and after the 5th of July, 1826, 
the prohibitions on the importation of Silk Manufactures shall 
cease and determine." 

Mr. Baring confessed, that the impression made on the House by the speech 
of the President of the Board of Trade, was such as to render it a vain hope, 
that any thing- which he could himself offer would remove it. He was, how- 
ever, satisfied, that the proposed measure was a dangerous experiment for 
the country, and that those who proposed it were completely ruining the Silk 
Manufacture of England. They would find this out, when they had deprived 
thousands of poor manufacturers of their bread. All the «hops of London 
would be full of silk goods. The moment this plan was promulgated, the 
object of all who had capitals embarked in the manufacture would be to 
disentangle those capitals ; and those who had no capital, except their labour, 
would be left to struggle for themselves, and perhaps to perish for want. 
Mr. Hume denied that the measure in question was a mere experiment. It 
proceeded upon such sound principles, that there could be no reasonable 
doubt of its success. The several Resolutions were agreed to, and a Bill 
was brought in founded thereupon ; which passed on the 25th. 



( 376 ) 



EXPOSITION OF THE FOREIGN COMMERCIAL 
POLICY OF THE COUNTRY. 

MARCH 25, 1825. 

The House having resolved itself into a committee of the whole House, to 
which several of the Customs and Excise Consolidation Acts were referred, 

Mr. HusKisso\ rose and spoke, in substance, as follows : — 
Sir: — In requesting the attention of the Committee, whilst I 
state (in continuation of the subject which I had the honour to 
open on Monday last) the alterations which I propose to recom- 
mend in the Duties levied upon the importation of materials em- 
ployed in some of our principal manufactures, and also in the 
Prohibitory Duties now imposed upon the manufactured produc- 
tions of other countries, I need scarcely bespeak the disposition 
of the Committee to countenance the principle of these proposals, 
so far as they shall be found not inconsistent with the protection 
of our own industry. I feel the more assured of this general 
disposition in the Committee, not only as it was manifested on 
the former evening, but also from the experience which the 
House and the Country now have of the benefits to be derived 
from the removal of vexatious restraints, and meddling interfer- 
ence, in the concerns of internal industry or foreign commerce. 

However confident either my right honourable friend, the 
Chancellor of the Exchequer, or I myself, may have been, that 
the changes which, since the restoration of peace, it has been our 
duty to propose in our commercial policy, would be attended 
with the most salutary consequences, it was impossible for us — 
at least it was impossible for me — not to feel that, in the applica- 
tion of the soundest principles, the result, from unforeseen causes, 
may sometimes disappoint our expectations. It became us, there- 
fore, to watch the issue of each experiment, and not to attempt 
too much at once, until we had felt our way, and until the public 
were prepared to accompany us in our further progress. But I 
think I am not too bold in stating that, in every instance, as far 
as we have hitherto gone, not only have the fears and forebodings 
of the particular interests by which we were opposed proved to 
be visionary and unfounded, but the expectations of our most 
sanguine supporters have been more than reahzed. In these 
advantages, therefore, the opponents of the measures by which 
they were produced, must, on the one hand, find a matter of con- 



COMMERCIAL POLICY OF THE COUNTRY. 377 

solation, that their admonitions did not persuade — that their argu- 
ments did not convince — that their predictions did not intimidate; 
and, on the other hand, past success is, to the supporters of those 
measures, a source of encouragement to follow up the same path, 
as likely to lead us still further in the career of public prosperity. 

The Committee will recollect, that, when the change was 
made last year in the system of our Silk trade, one great altera- 
tion was the substitution of an ad valorem duty of 30/. per cent., 
instead of an absolute prohibition of all articles manufactured of 
silk. A doubt was suggested at the time, and in that doubt I 
participated, whether 30/. per cent, was not too high a duty; — 
not too high, indeed, according to the apprehensions of the British 
manufacturer (for he stated it would be quite inadequate to his 
protection), but whether its amount would not still leave some 
latitude to the smuggler. This latter ground of doubt still 
remains — the former, I believe, is already pretty well removed. 
If alarm now exist anywhere, and I know it does exist, it is 
transferred to the other side of the Channel, and is to be found 
only among the manufacturers of France, in consequence of the 
great progress and improvement, since made in this country, in 
every branch of the Silk trade. 

Having thus ruled, that 30Z. per cent, is the highest duty which 
could be maintained for the protection of a manufacture, in every 
part of which we were most behind foreign countries — the only 
extensive manufacture, which, on the score of general inferiority, 
stood in need of special protection, — surely it was time to inquire 
in what degree our other great manufactures were protected, and 
to consider if there be no inconvenience, no unfitness, no positive 
injury caused to ourselves, no suspicion and odium excited in 
foreign countries, by duties which are either absolutely prohibi- 
tory, — or, if the articles to which they attach admit of being 
smuggled, which have no other efl'ect than to throw the business 
of importing them into the hands of the smuggler. 

To bring this subject more particularly before the House, I 
will begin with our greatest manufacture, that of Cotton. It will 
not be denied, that, in this manufacture, we are superior to all 
other countries ; and that, by the cheapness and quality of our 
goods, we undersell our competitors in all the markets of the 
world, which are open alike to us and to them. I do not except 
the market of the East Indies (the first seat of the manufacture), 
of which it may be said to be the stajile, where the r^w^ material 
is grown, where labour is cheaper than in any other country, and 
from w^hich England and Europe were, for a long time, supplied 
with cotton goods. Now, however, large quantities of British 
cottons are sold in India at prices lower than they can be pro- 
duced bv the native manufacturers. If any possible doubt could 
32* 2X 



378 EXPOSITION OF THE FOREIGN 

remain, that this manufacture has nothing to apprehend from 
competition anywhere, and, least of all, from a competition in 
our own home market, it niust vanish when I state to the Com- 
mittee, that the official value of cotton goods, exported last year, 
amounted to the astonishing sum of 30,795,000/. ; and yet, such 
is the influence of old prejudices, that in our books of rates, the 
duties, — will the Committee believe it? — stand at this moment as 
follows : — on certain descriptions of cotton goods, 75/. per cent., 
on others 67/. 10s. per cent, on a third class 50/. per cent. 

It is impossible not to smile at the discriminating shrewdness 
which made these distinctions, and which could discover that, 
with a protection of 67/. per cent., ten shillings more were want- 
ing, to make the balance incline on the side of the British manu- 
facturer, in the market of his own country. These absurd duties, 
and equally absurd distinctions, attach alike upon the productions 
of our own subjects in the East Indies, as upon those of foreign 
countries ; whilst our manufactures are admitted, almost duty 
free, into all the territories of the East India Company. Instead 
of this graduated, but monstrous scale, I propose to admit all 
foreign articles manufactured wholly of cotton, whether from the 
East Indies or elsewhere, at one uniform duty of 10/. per cent.; 
which, I conceive, is sufficient to countervail the small duty 
levied upon the importation of the raw material into this country, 
and the duty upon any other articles used in the manufacture. 
Any protection, beyond this, I hold to be not only unnecessary 
but mischievous. 

From cotton, I proceed to Woollens, one of our oldest manu- 
factures — that which has been most nursed and dandled by the 
legislature — a favourite child, which, like other favourites, has, I 
suspect, suffered, rather than profited, by being spoiled and petted 
in rearing; whilst its younger brother of cotton, coming into the 
-world much later, has thriven better by being much more left to 
rough it, and make its own way in life. Some detailed and 
authentic history of the paternal and zealous sohcitude with which 
our ancestors in this House interposed to protect the woollen 
manufacture (should such a history ever be written), will alone 
preserve future generations from incredulity, in respect to the 
extent to which legislative interference was once carried in this 
branch of internal industry. Within my own time, regulating 
Acts, dealing with every minute process of the manufacture, have 
been repealed by the score; as have also heaps of other laws, 
equally salutary and wise, prescribing the mode of clipping wool, 
its package, the time to be allowed, and the forms to be observed, 
in removing it from one place to another — laws, the violation of 
which, in some instances, amounted to felony, but which now no 
longer disgrace the Statute-book. Fortunately for the cotton 



COMMERCIAL POLICY OF THE COUNTRY. 379 

manufacture, it was never favoured with this species of protec- 
tion, so abundantly lavished upon woollen, and which was only- 
withdrawn last year from silk, by the repeal of the Spitalfields' 
Acts. 

I am well aware that this retrospect to former systems may be- 
wearisome to the Committee, but it is not without its importance, 
if it were only to strengthen us against falling again into errone- 
ous courses. I trust, therefore, that I may be allowed to state, 
from official documents, what has been the relative progress of 
our cotton and woollen manufactures, since the year 1765, being 
a period of sixty years : 

The quantity of cotton wool imported into Great Britain, in the 
year ended the 5th of January 1705, was about 3,360,000 lbs. 
The value of cotton goods exported 200,000/. 

The quantity of cotton wool imported in the year ended the 
5th of January 1825, was 147,174,000 lbs. The value of cotton 
goods exported 30,795,000/. 

The quantity of lamb and sheeps' wool imported in the year 
1765, was 1,926,000 lbs. The value of woollen goods exported 
5,159,000/. 

The quantity of lamb and sheeps' wool imported in the year 
1825, was 23,858,000 lbs. The value of woollen goods exported 
6,926,000/. 

Perhaps I may just add, that the quantity of raw silk imported 
in 1765, was 418,000 lbs.; and in 1825, 3,047,000 lbs. 

In submitting these satisfactory statements, I cannot refrain 
from calling the attention of the Committee to one observation 
which they suggest to my mind. It must, I think, be admitted, 
that, in the year 1765, the whole quantity of sheeps' wool grown 
in this country could not be nearly so great as at present, when, 
owing to the many improvements in husbandry, and particularly 
in the art of raising winter food for the flocks, the number of 
sheep must be greatly increased ; and yet the quantity of wool 
imported in that year was not one-twelfth of the quantity imported 
in 1825. Out of this aggregate supply from home growth, and 
foreign import, the whole wants of our own population were sup- 
plied in 1765, leaving to the amount of 5,159,000/. of manufac- 
tured woollens for exportation. In the year 1825, out of the 
aggregate of the home growth, and of an import of wool so 
greatly exceeding that of 1765, the whole manufactured export 
is 6,926,000/., being an increase over that of 1765, of only 
1,765,000/. Now, let me ask the Committee, how often, in these 
sixty years, has the increase of consumption in cotton and silk 
clothing been contemplated with alarm and jealousy, by the wool- 
grower, and the woollen manufacturer ; by the descendants of 
those who passed laws (repealed only within these last ten years), 



380 EXPOSITION OF THE FOREIGN 

compelling us to be buried in woollens? And yet, what was our 
consumption of cotton — that other great article of clothing ? — in 
1765, next to nothing; and what is it now? greater probably 
than the whole amount of our woollens, to say nothing of the 
consumption of silk, which has also increased eight-fold. Can 
any statements show more decidedly the wonderful increase in 
the power of consumption by this country ? Can any thing more 
forcibly illustrate that general position to which I have already 
adverted, and which cannot be too strongly impressed on those 
who legislate for the interests of commerce and industry — that 
the means which lead to increased consumption, and which are 
the foundation, as that consumption is the proof, of our prosperity 
will be most effectually promoted by an unrestrained competition 
not only between the capital and industry of different classes in 
the same country, but also by extending that competition as much 
as possible to all other countries. 

The present rates of duty on foreign woollens vary from 501. 
to 67/. 105. per cent. I am satisfied that 15/. per cent, will answer 
every purpose of reasonable and fair protection ; and this is the 
reduction, therefore, which I intend to submit to the Committee. 

The next great branch of manufacture is that of Linens. This 
also has been the object of more nursing and interference than 
wei-e good for its healthy and vigorous growth. But not to weary 
the Committee with details, I will proceed at once to state, that 
the present duties, which are very complicated, fluctuate from 40/. 
to 180/. per cent, and that I propose to simplify and reduce them, 
by putting them all at 25/. per cent. 

In like manner the duties on Paper, which are now altogether 
prohibitory, I propose to reduce, so that they shall not exceed 
double the amount of the excise duty payable upon that article 
manufactured in this country. This reduction will extend to 
printed books, which now pay, if in any way bound, 6/. 10s. and 
if unbound 5/. the cwt. The amount of these duties is sufficient, 
as I have been assured, to lead to the smuggling of books printed 
abroad ; and I am sure that, for the character of this country, — 
for the interest of science and literature — the importation of 
foreign works, which do not interfere with any copyright in 
England, ought not to be discouraged. I should, therefore, pro- 
pose to lower these duties, regard being had to copyrights, which 
may require specific provisions, to 3/. 10s. and 3/. respectively. 

Upon Glass, the present duty, which is 80/. I propose to lower 
to 20/. per cent. ; and, instead of the heavy duty, so justly com- 
plained of, upon common glass bottles, amounting to 16s. 2d. a 
dozen (which, now that wine is reduced in price, amounts in 
many cases to more than half its value), I intend to recommend 
a duty of 3s. only. 



COMMERCIAL POLICY OF THE COUNTRY. 381 

Upon all descriptions of foreign Earthenware, an article with 
which we supply so many other countries, the present duty is 
75/. percent.; the effect of which is, that ornamented porcelain is 
abundantly smuggled from the continent. I propose to reduce 
the duty on earthenware, and plain porcelain goods to 15/., and 
upon porcelain, gilt, or ornamented, to 30/. per cent. ; which is 
quite as much as can be demanded, without throwing this branch 
of import into the hands of the smuggler. 

To foreign Gloves, another manufacture, now altogether pro- 
hibited, but which are to be bought in every shop, I apply the 
same observation, and the same measure of duty, 30/. per cent. 

I now come to the metallic substances. — The amount of the 
reduction which I propose upon Iron, from 6/. 10s. to 1/. 10s. a 
ton, has already been stated by my right honourable friend, the 
Chancellor of the Exchequer. It afforded me great satisfaction, 
on that occasion, to hear the liberal sentiments avowed by a 
worthy alderman,* who is v^ery extensively concerned in the Iron 
Works of this country. His unqualified approbation of this im- 
portant change, I had flattered myself, would have been echoed 
by all the other Iron masters; but in this expectation I have been 
disappointed. Deputations from the mining districts have since 
been at the Board of Trade. I have heard their representations, 
— but I have not been convinced by them. I am bound to say, 
that they fully partake of the character of nearly all the com- 
munications (and they are many) which I have received from 
those whose interests in manufacture or trade are affected, or 
likely, in their apprehensions, to be affected, by the changes which 
I am now submitting to the Committee. They are all great 
advocates for free trade generally, all alike forward in their ap- 
probation of the principles on which the Government is now act- 
ing ; but each has some reason to assign, quite conclusive, I have 
no doubt, in his own mind, why his peculiar calling should be 
made an exception. All these special reasons, I own, have only 
satisfied me, that the general rule of free competition is the best 
for all trades, as it is certainly the best for the public ; though I 
can quite understand, that a privilege or monopoly given to any 
one branch, whilst it is denied to all others, might be an advan- 
tage to that particular trade. But is it fit that in an article like 
iron, of universal use in all our manufactures, in all the arts and 
conveniences of life, in agriculture, in houses, in ships, we should 
now be suffering from a scarcity of that metal? — that we should 
submit to have every article, in which it is used, greatly increas- 
ed in price, as well as deteriorated, perhaps, in quality, on ac- 
count of the enormous duty imposed upon foreign iron, not for 

* Mr. Alderman Thompson. 



382 EXPOSITION OF THE FOREIGN 

the purpose of revenue, but for that of protection, — a duty which 
amounts nearly to a monopoly in favour of the British Iron mas- 
ters? Has not the price of British iron, of late, been almost 
doubled ? Have not all the Iron masters demands for iron 
beyond what they can supply 1 Is there no risk or danger to our 
hardware manufactures at Birmingham and Sheffield from this 
state of things 1 Can they execute the orders which they receive 
from abroad, if irqn continues at its present price, or is to rise 
still higher 1 How many thousand workmen will be thrown out 
of employ, if this branch of trade be lost to this country 1 Is 
there no reason to apprehend its being transferred to Germany, 
the Netherlands, and other parts of the Continent? I have been 
assured, upon authority not likely to mislead me, that very exten- 
sive orders, which have lately been received at Birmingham from 
the United States, and other parts, have been refused, because the 
great rise in the price of iron does not admit of the articles being 
made within the limits specified in those orders. And what is 
the consequence ? They are transferred to the Continent ; and 
the share of this country in their execution, is confined to making 
the models and drawings, which are prepared here, for the guid- 
ance of the foreign artificers. It is, therefore, of the greatest 
importance, that the duties on foreign iron should be reduced, in 
reference, not only to the interests of the consumer in this coun- 
try, but also to the well-being of those numerous classes who are 
employed in all the manufactures of this metal for foreign coun- 
tries. The necessity of this reduction becomes the more urgent 
from the fact, that, at this time, the whole produce of the British 
nnines is not adequate to supply the present demand. But, quite 
independent of this evil, which may be temporary, I own it ap- 
pears to me, that it would be of great advantage to the manufac- 
tures of this country to be able to procure foreign iron, particu- 
larly that of Sweden, on easy terms. Swedish iron is known to 
be superior to our own ; its admixture with British iron would 
improve the quality of our manufactures ; they would be held in 
higher estimation, and not only be able to command a more 
decided preference in foreign markets, but become more valuable 
for all the purposes to which iron is applied in our domestic con- 
sumption. Take, for instance, the important article of iron 
cables, now so generally used by our shipping ; it will not be 
denied, that, by a due proportion of Swedish iron in their com- 
position, their strength and tenacity would be improved. Here, 
then, an important advantage to our naval interests, connected 
too with the safety of every ship using iron cables, is directly 
counteracted by the present high duties on foreign iron. The 
result of its more free admission, I am persuaded, will be, not 
only to check those extreme fluctuations, which, of late years, 



COMMERCIAL POLICY OF THE COUNTRY. 383 

we have witnessed in the ])rice of iron — at one time so low as to 
be ruinous to the producer, at another so high, as to be greatly 
distressing to all the other interests of the country — but also by 
the improvements to which it will lead, to extend the use and 
consumption of manufactured iron (the bulk of which will always 
be our own) both at home and abroad. This increased demand, 
joined to a more steady price, will, ere long, more than compen- 
sate to the British iron-masters the temporary inconvenience, if 
any, which some of them apprehend from the extent to which it 
is proposed to carry the reduction of this duty. 

The next metal upon which I have to propose a reduction is 
Copper. The duty, which in 1790 did not exceed 10/., now 
amounts to 54/, a ton. This high duty is not less injurious to the 
manufacturer than the high duty on iron. Now, if the price of 
our copper manufactures is to exceed that of the like articles of 
foreign manufacture, in any thing like a proportion to this enor- 
mous duty, it is evident, that, even assuming some superiority in 
the skill of our workmen, we must ultimately be driven from the 
markets of other countries. The quantity of copper produced by 
the English mines amounts to about 10,000 tons annually, of 
which something less than one-half suffices for the home con- 
sumption. This being the proportion, do not the owners of cop- 
per mines see, that if, by the high price at which the manufactu- 
rer buys copper, he should lose his hold upon the foreign market, 
they must be injured by the effects of their own monopoly ? The 
annual supply required would then be diminished to less than 
5,000 tons ; and they would, therefore, run the risk of losing more 
by the continuance of the present high duties, than by the repeal 
of them. These prohibitory duties have already, in my judgment, 
been attended with serious injury. They have prevented copper, 
not only in an unmanufactured, but in an imperfectly smelted 
state, from coming into this country. This metal exists in great 
abundance, not only in several parts of Europe, but also in some 
of the new States of America. It would have been sent here, as 
it used to be, in an imperfect state, in payment for British manu- 
factures. Here it would have undergone the process of purify- 
ing, of rolling, or of being otherwise prepared for consumption, by 
the means of our superior machinery, had it not been kept away 
by impolitic restrictions. They operated as a bounty upon the 
transfer of our capital to other countries, and as a premium to 
encourage the inhabitants of those countries to do for themselves 
that which, greatly to our own advantage, we should otherwise 
have continued to do for them. At the same time I am aware, 
that considerable capitals have been invested in our copper mines, 
under the encouragement given by the present monopoly, and 
how difficult it is to do all that the public interest would require. 



384 EXPOSITION OF THE FOREIGN 

without injury to those particular interests. This, in almost every 
instance, is the most arduous part of the task which a sense of 
public duty has imposed upon me. In the present case, however, 
I believe that I may safely, and I hope with advantage to both 
parties, propose to reduce the duty on copper from 54/. to 27/. a 
ton; without committing myself, not to recommend, at a future 
period, even a further reduction, if it should appear that the pre- 
sent Umit is not sufficient to enable our manufacturers to preserve 
their foreign market, and that, at a lower rate of duty, no great 
or sudden check would be given to the British mines. 

There is another metallic substance, in some degree connected 
with the copper manufacture, the duty upon which ought to be 
considerably lowered. — I mean Zinc, commonly known in trade 
under the name of Spelter. This semi-metal enters, in the pro- 
portion of about one-third, I understand, into the composition of 
brass. The selling price of spelter, on the Continent, is about 20/. 
a ton, here about 45/., and the duty is 28/. Now, with a duty 
upon copper of 54/. a ton, and upon spelter of 28/., what chance 
can we have of maintaining a footing in the foreign market for 
any description of brass wares ? None ; — and accordingly I am 
assured that, at this moment, our briskest demand in this trade is 
in the preparation of moulds and patterns for the foreign manu- 
facturer. Upon spelter, I shall propose to reduce the duty about 
one half. I feel that I ought to go still lower, and perhaps I shall, 
after making further inquiry, in some future stage ; for I am con- 
vinced that the mines of this country cannot successfully com- 
pete with those of Silesia, in which spelter is principally pro- 
duced. 

Upon Tin, the present duty is excessive. It is an article of 
which we have more the command, and is of less extensive con- 
sumption. I propose, however, to reduce the duty more than one 
half— from 5/. 9s. 3d. to 21. 10s. the cwt. 

The duty on Lead is now 20/. per cent, ad valorem; this I 
propose to lower to 15/., which, I hope, will be sufficient to admit 
of a foreign import, and to check the present exorbitant price of 
that metal. If I shall find, upon further investigation, that this is 
not Hkely to be the case, I shall reserve to myself to suggest, on 
some future stage, a further reduction in this duty also. 

There are several other enumerated articles in the Book of 
Rates, upon which I propose to reduce the duties upon the same 
principle. I should only weary the Committee by going through 
the detail of these alterations — they will be found in the schedule 
annexed to one of the resolutions which I shall submit for their 
consideration. Perhaps, however, I ought to state that, although 
every thing which can, by any accident, be considered as an 
object of jealousy to any of our manufactures, is enumerated by 



COMMERCIAL POLICY OF THE COUNTRY. 385 

name in the Book of Rates, there are other things not di recti v 
connected with trade or merchandize, but with art, science, and 
literature, and deriving their value solely from such connexion, 
which, whenever they are brought into this country, cost the per- 
son who imports them 50/. per cent, on their estimated value, 
under a sweeping clause, at the end of that book, w^hich provides, 
that upon all goods, wares, and merchandize, being, either in part 
or wholly, manufactured, and not enumerated, a duty of 50/. per 
cent, shall be payable, and a duty of 20/. per cent, upon all non- 
enumerated goods, not being either in part or wholly manufac- 
tured. Now this duty of 50/. per cent., of little value to the Ex- 
chequer, and attaching principal!}^ upon such objects as I have 
adverted to, is, I am sure, one which the Committee will concur 
with me in thinking ought to be reduced. The instances in which 
this high duty attaches on articles of curiosity and interest, are 
not very numerous ; they arc sometimes ludicrous, perhaps, but 
not very creditable to the good taste and character of this coun- 
try. One instance, which I recollect to have heard, I will men- 
tion. A gentleman imported a mummy from Egypt. The offi- 
cers of the customs were not a little puzzled by this non-enumera- 
ted article. These remains of mortality, muscles and sinews, 
pickled and preserved three thousand years ago, could not be 
deemed a raw material ; and therefore, upon deliberation, it was 
determined to tax them as a manufactured article. The importer, 
anxious that his mummy should not be seized, stated its value at 
400/. The declaration cost him 200/., being at the rate of 50/. 
per cent, on the manufactured merchandize which he was about 
to import. I propose to reduce the duty on manufactured arti- 
cles, not enumerated, from 50/. to 20/., and on articles unmanu- 
factured, from 20/. to 10/. per cent. 

The result of the alterations, which I have now stated to the 
Committee, will be this — that upon foreign manufactured articles 
generally, where the duty is imposed for the protection of 
our own manufactures, and not for the purpose of collecting 
revenue, that duty will, in no instance, exceed 30/. per cent. If 
the article be not manufactured much cheaper or much better 
abroad than at home, such a duty is ample for protection. If it 
be manufactured so much cheaper, or so much better abroad, as 
to render 30/. per cent, insufficient, my answer is, first, that a 
greater protection is only a premium to the smuggler; and, 
secondly, that there is no wisdom in attempting to bolster up a 
competition, which this degree of protection will not sustain. Let 
the state have the tax, which is now the reward of the smuggler, 
and let the consumer have the better and cheaper article, without 
the painful consciousness that he is consulting his own conve- 
nience at the expense of daily violating the laws of his country. 
33 2 Y 



386 EXPOSITION OF THE FOREIGN 

When my right honourable friend, the Chancellor of the Exche- 
quer, is labouring to put an end, as fast as he can, to the evils of 
smuggling, by lowering the duties, increased during the pressure 
of the war, and for the purposes of revenue, upon articles of con- 
sumption, the last thing which we ought to countenance, is the 
continuance of high duties, not for the benefit of the Exchequer, 
but for the supposed protection of certain branches of manufac- 
ture. Is the illicit importation of foreign spirits to be checked, 
merely to give fresh life to the smuggling of cambrics and lace 
from Flanders, or of gloves and porcelain from France? I can- 
not think that gentlemen are aware to what an extent all the 
moral evils of smuggling are encouraged by the prohibition of 
these comparatively petty articles. Let any one go down to 
Brighton, and wander along the coast frona thence to Hastings; 
I will undertake to say, that he shall most easily find, at every 
place he comes to, persons who will engage to deliver to him, 
within ten days or a fortnight, any prohibited article of manufac- 
ture, which he can name, and almost in any quantity, upon an 
advance of 30Z. per cent, beyond the prime cost at Paris, What 
is the consequence of such a system 1 A number of families, that 
would otherwise be valuable and industrious members of society, 
exist, and train up their children, in a state of perpetual warfare 
with the law, till they insensibly acquire the habits and feelings 
of outlaws, standing rather in the relation of pirates, than of 
fellow-subjects, to the rest of the community. And is this abomina- 
ble system to be tolerated, not from any over-ruling necessity of 
upholding the revenue, nay, possibly, to the injury of the Exche- 
quer, but merely because, in a few secondary branches of manu- 
facture, we do not possess the same natural advantages, or the 
same degree of skill, as our neighbours ? If cambrics are made 
better at Valenciennes, is that a sufficient reason for imposing a 
prohibitory duty on all linens ; a duty from which the revenue 
gets next to nothing, whilst the country is full of the proscribed 
article? If certain descriptions of paper for engraving are made 
more perfect in France, are we always to be condemned to the 
use of an inferior and dearer article of home manufacture? The 
time has been, when it was found quite a sufficient reason for im- 
posing a prohibitory duty upon a foreign article, that it was better 
than we could make at home ; but, I trust, when such calls are 
made upon this House hereafter, our first answer at least will be, 
let us see what can be done by competition ; first try to imitate, 
and by-and-bye, perhaps, you will surpass your foreign rival 
This is the feeling, this is the hope and the emulation which we 
have now created in the silk trade ; and, I believe, with a very 
reasonable prospect of the most complete success. But this feel- 
ing never would have been called forth under the old and helpless 



COMMERCIAL POLICY OF THE COUNTRY. 387 

system of prohibitory protection. Prohibitions, in fact, are a 
premium to mediocrity. They destroy the best incentive to ex- 
cellence, the best stimulus to invention and improvement. They 
condemn the community to sutler, both in price and quality, all 
the evils of monopoly, except in as far as a remedy can be found 
in the baneful arts of the smuggler. They have also another of 
the great evils of monopoly, that of exposing the consumer, as 
well as the dealer, to rapid and inconvenient fluctuations in price. 
With the knowledge of this fact, that we furnish in a propor- 
tion far exceeding the supply from any other country, the general 
markets of the world, with all the leading articles of manufacture, 
upon which I have now proposed greatly to lower the duties, I 
own that I am not afraid of this country being overwhelmed with 
foreign goods. Some, I know, will come in, which are now ex- 
cluded ; I shall be glad of it. In various ways, their admission 
will be beneficial to the general interests of the country. That it 
cannot be extensively injurious to any of those interests, may be 
inferred, not only from the arguments with which I have already 
troubled the Committee, but from actual experience. In the year 
1786, we entered into a commercial treaty with France. Under 
the stipulations of that treaty, the cottons and woollens of France 
were admitted into this country, upon a duty of 12/. per cent. — 
I now propose for the latter 15/. Hardware, cutlery, turnery, 
&c. upon a duty of 10/., — I now propose 20/. per cent. Pottery 
and glass, &c. under a duty of 12/. — I now propose 15/. upon the 
former, and 20/. upon the latter. What was the result of this 
treaty? We sent goods of various descriptions to the French 
market, and England was supplied with other goods of French 
production; but no injury accrued — no check was given to any 
particular branch of our staple manufactures, in consequence of 
this interchange. One advantage arising from it was, to create 
a spirit of emulation, an instance of which occurred in the woollen 
trade. Soon after the opening of the intercourse between the two 
countries, French cloths of a fine quality were imported in con- 
siderable quantity. They were preferred to our own. No fashion- 
able man was to be seen without a coat of French cloth. What 
followed ? In less than two years, the cloth of our own manufac- 
tures became equal to that imported from France; the one could 
not be distinguished from the other; and coats of French cloth 
were still the fashion, whilst the cloth of which they were made 
was manufactured in this country. In like manner, we shall now, 
in all probability, import some printed cottons from Alsace and 
Switzerland, of richer and brighter colours than our own ; some 
fancy muslins from India ; some silk stuffs, some porcelain from 
France, objects for which curiosity or fashion may create a 
demand in this metropolis ; but they will not interfere with those 



388 EXPOSITION OF THE FOREIGN 

articles of more wide and universal consumption, which our own 
manufactures supply cheaper and better ; whilst they will excite 
the ingenuity of our artists and workmen, to attempt improve- 
ments, which may enable them to enter the lists with the foreigner, 
in those very articles in which he has now an acknowledged su- 
periority. 

I know it may be objected, that a great change has taken place 
in the situation of the British manufactures, since the French 
treaty of 1786 — that we have been engaged in a long and ex- 
pensive war, and that we have now to support the weight of a 
great many new and heavy taxes. I admit that such is the case : 
other countries, however, have not been exempted from the 
calamities of war; their taxes, too, have been increased; their 
burthens made to press more heavily. What is still more mis- 
chievous, in most of these countries, their commercial and manu- 
facturing establishments have felt more directly the ravages and 
interruption of war; many of them have been violently swept 
away, whilst the capitals which they had called forth, if not con- 
fiscated, have been impaired or diminished, by the exactions of 
military power. In this country no such calamity has been ex- 
perienced. The trading capital of England remains entire ; even 
during the war, it continued constantly increasing ; and in respect 
to the comparative cheapness of labour in foreign countries, 
although by no means an immaterial part of the present con- 
sideration, it is not alone sufficient, as experience has shown, to 
make the balance preponderate in their favour. Since the inven- 
tion of the steam-engine, coupled with the application of so many 
other discoveries, both in mechanical and chemical science, to all 
the arts of life, the mere estimate of manual labour is lost sight 
of, in comparison with that of the creative powers of mind. It is 
the union of those powers, and of the great capitals which call 
them into action, which distinguishes British industry, and has 
placed it in the commanding situation which it now holds in the 
world. To these advantages, are joined that energy and con- 
tinuity of enterprise, that perseverance and steadiness of exertion, 
which, even by our rivals, are admitted to belong to the English 
character. It is upon these qualities, and these advantages, much 
more than upon any system of bounties and protecting duties, that 
I rely with confidence for the maintenance and improvement of 
the station which we now occupy among the trading communities 
of the world. 

I expect further to be told, as a general objection to the course 
which I now recommend, — indeed I have already been told in 
the correspondence which I have felt it right to hold with some 
of our most intelligent and accomplished merchants and manu- 
facturers on this subject, before I brought it before this Committee, 



COMMERCIAL POLICY OF THE COUNTRY. 369 

— that in 1786, we had insured from France, by treaty, a reci- 
procity of commercial advantages; but that, at present, we have 
made no such arrangement. This objection I admit, in one 
respect, deserves consideration. I mean in its relation to the 
foreign market ; — with regard to the danger of our being under- 
sold in our own market, it does not hold at all. Now, in respect 
to our deferring any improvement in our own commercial system, 
until we can persuade foreign states to view it as a concession to 
them, which we are ready to make in return for similar conces- 
sions on their part, I cannot, I own, discover much wisdom in 
such a line of policy; but, as I have already stated that I had 
corresponded with others on this part of the subject, I am sure it 
■will be an acceptable relief to the Committee (wearied as they 
must be with hearing me), if I substitute for my own arguments, 
the more forcible reasoning of one of my correspondents, a gentle- 
man deeply concerned as a manufacturer and a merchant, who 
unites to great practical knowledge a vigorous understanding, of 
M^hich he has formerly given proofs in this House, which must 
make us all regret that he is no longer a member of it ; — I mean 
Mr. Kirkman Finlay. I received from him a letter, dated the 
18th of February, of which the following is an extract: — 

" Subscribing, as I do, to every one of the advantages stated in 
your letter, I will not occupy your time by going further into the 
subject; at the same time, I must not lead you to suppose that such 
a measure is likely to be adopted without some opposition from 
manufacturers, who have all their old prejudices to remove be- 
fore they can subscribe, in their own case, to the sound principles 
of free commercial intercourse, which you are, so much to the 
public advantage, endeavouring to estaUish. Believe me, that no 
one takes a deeper interest than I do in the success of all such 
measures; and I am certain that the adoption of such a plan as 
we are now talking of, will go far in its consequences to satisfy 
persons, both at home and abroad, of the benefits that will arise 
to all countries from the general establishment of such measures. 
It is no doubt true, that it will be argued that such concessions 
ought not to be granted to foreign states, without being accom- 
panied by some stipulation for the admission into their consump- 
tion of some of our produce or manufactures, on the payment of 
a moderate duty. But in my view of the case, we ought not to 
suffer ourselves to be influenced by such reasoning, since our 
whole object being to benefit ourselves, our inquiry is naturally 
confined to the consideration of whether such a mode of acting 
be really advantageous, independent altogether of what may be 
done by the governments of other countries. Now, if the measure 
be really beneficial to us, why shall we withhold from ourselves 
an advantage, because other States are not yet advanced so far 
33* 



390 EXPOSITION OF THE FOREIGN 

as we are in the knowledge of their own interests, or have not 
attained the power of carrying their own views into practice?' 

In the last sentence of this letter, the writer has, I believe, 
stated the real grounds which may still, for some time, prevent 
foreign States from following our example, namely, " their igno- 
rance of their own true interests, or their incompetence to carry 
their own views into effect." But, let my right honourable friend, 
the chancellor of the Exchequer, continue his good practice of 
coming down to this House, session after session, to accumulate 
fresh proofs, that the removal of restrictive impositions and ex- 
cessive duties is not diminution, but, frequently, increase of 
revenue: — Let foreign countries see him, year after year (and I 
hope he wall long be able to do so), largely remitting public 
burthens, and, at the same time, exhibiting a prosperous Exche- 
quer, still flowing to the same perennial level ; and, I have no 
doubt, when the Governments of the Continent shall have con- 
templated, for a few years longer, the happy consequences of the 
system in which we are now proceeding, that their eyes will be 
opened. They will, then, believe — but, at present they do not, — 
that we are sincere and consistent in our principles ; and, for their 
own advantage, they will then imitate us in our present course, 
as they have, of late, been adopting our cast-off system of restric- 
tions and prohibitions. That they have, hitherto, suspected our 
sincerity, and looked upon our professions as lures to ensnare 
them, is not very surprising, when they compared those profes- 
sions with that code of prohibition which I am now endeavouring 
to pare down and modify to a scale of moderate duties. At the 
same time, as a stimulus to other countries to adopt principles of 
reciprocity, I shall think it right, to reserve a power of making 
an addition of one-fifth to the proposed duties, upon the produc- 
tions of those countries which may refuse, upon a tender by us 
of the like advantages, to place our commerce and navigation 
upon the footing of the most favoured nation. I need scarcely 
add, that no part of these arrangements will interfere with the 
power of the Crown, to enter into specific treaties of commerce 
with particular States, by which treaties the duties now proposed 
may be still further varied or modified, subject always to the ap- 
probation of Parhament. 

Having now stated the alterations which I intend to propose, 
with regard to the protecting and prohibitory duties, I have only 
to add that, with a view to give the British manufacturer every 
fair advantage in the competition with which he has to contend 
in the foreign market, it is desirable to consider how far this ob- 
ject can be promoted, by a reduction of some of the duties now 
levied upon the raw materials, which he is obliged to use in his 
manufacture. 



COMMERCIAL POLICY OF THE COUNTRY. ,791 

During the exigencies of the late war, duties were laid, or in- 
creased, upon various articles used in dyeing. The revenue de- 
rived from these duties is not considerable : but, in proportion to 
the amount of the charge, must be the increased price of the 
manufactured commodity. Be that charge, upon our woollen 
cloths, for instance, only one or two per cent., even this small ad- 
dition in the present open competition of the foreign market, may 
turn the scale against us, and ought therefore to be withdrawn. 
On most of the articles in question, I shall propose a large reduc- 
tion in the existing rate of duty. They are so numerous that I 
shall not weary the patience of the Committee, by mentioning 
them specifically; they will all be found in the Schedule, which 
will form part of the intended Resolutions. To one or two 
articles, however, not included under the class of dyeing drugs, I 
must beg leave shortly to refer. Olive oil is very much used in 
the manufacture of the finer woollen cloths. The duty upon it 
was somewhat more than doubled during the war. I propose to 
reduce it to a rate rather below that of the year 1790; from 15/. 
13s., the present duty, to 11 a tun. This will be a great relief to 
the manufacturer. There is another species of oil, extracted 
from rape seed, largely used in the preparation of the coarse 
woollens, upon which I also propose to give relief The Com- 
mittee may perhaps recollect, that, a few years ago, when the 
panic of agricultural distress was in full force, — when fears were 
openly expressed in this House, that England must cease to grow 
corn (and fear, it is said, is seldom a wise counsellor), it was sug- 
gested, that the raising of rape seed might become a profitable 
substitute; and, upon this suggestion, a duty, almost prohibitory, 
was laid on foreign seed, which till then had been imported free 
from any charge. This measure, of which the benefit, if bene- 
ficial at all, was confined to a very few districts of the kingdom, 
has certainly contributed nothing to the revival of our agricul- 
ture, but it has, in various ways, been attended with detriment to 
our manufactures. It has greatly injured the manufacture of 
rape oil and rape cake in this country, and it has increased the 
price of the former to the woollen trade. The cake, indeed, 
being wanted for agricultural purposes, is allowed to come in 
from abroad nearly duty free ; so that, in this instance, and to 
this extent, our recent policy has been to prohibit the raw 
material, and to encourage its importation in a manufactured 
state. I propose to revert to our ancient policy in respect to this 
article ; and, after giving a certain time to the dealers to get rid 
of their stock in hand, to allow the free importation of rape seed, 
upon a duty which will be merely nominal. The only other 
article, which I think it necessary to mention, is wool. The duty 
is now one penny a pound upon all foreign wool. It has been 



392 EXPOSITION OF THE FOREIGN 

stated to me, that even this rate of duty presses severely upon 
the manufacturers of coarse woollens, in which we have (nost lo 
fear from foreign competition, and that considerable relief would 
be afforded by reducing it to one-half, upon all wool, not exceed- 
ing the value of one shilling a pound. I therefore propose to 
make this alteration, by which, I am assured, the quantity of 
coarse wool imported into this country, to be mixed in the manu- 
factui'e with our own long wool, is. likely to be greatly increased. 

All these reductions I consider to be right and proper in prin- 
ciple ; but, as measures calculated to afford encouragement and 
assistance to our manufacturers, I am particularly anxious to 
propose them at the same time when I am bringing forward other 
measures, not unlikely, till better understood, to excite alarm in 
particular quarters. Some of the duties which I am now dealing 
with, I am avi^are, were imposed for the purposes of revenue ; it 
may, therefore, be thought, that in repealing them, I am travel- 
ling out of my own department, and encroaching, in some degree, 
upon that of the Chancellor of the Exchequer. But my right 
honourable friend, I have no doubt, will forgive me where the 
pecuniary sacrifice is trifling, and the relief to our manufactures 
the more important consideration. He, I am sure, will allow me 
to consider myself, however humble, as a fellow-labourer with 
him in the same vineyard. Whilst I am pruning away the use- 
less and unsound branches, which bear, at best, but a scanty and 
bad crop, my object is to draw forth new and vigorous shoots, 
likely to afford better and more abundant fruit; the harvest of 
which, I trust, it will be his lot, hereafter, to present to his ap- 
plauding country, in the shape of further relief from taxation. 

I now come to the last of the three heads, into which I have 
divided the subject, to be submitted to the Committee, — the means 
of affording some further encouragement to the Shipping and 
Navigation of the empire. There is already a bill on the table 
which will contribute very essentially to the relief of that impor- 
tant interest. I mean the bill which repeals all the quarantine 
duties. They operated as a very considerable burthen, unfairly 
placed on the particular ships and goods which were compelled 
to perform quarantine. This was a precaution adopted, not for 
the special advantage of those engaged in any particular trade, — 
on the contrary, to them the detention and loss of time were 
great inconveniences, however unavoidable, — but for the general 
protection and safety of the community. The Committee of 
Foreign Trade was, therefore, perfectly justified in recommend- 
ing that the expense of quarantine should be borne by the coun- 
try at large, and not by any particular class in it ; and a Bill has 
been brought in, accordingly, by my right honourable friend, the 
Vice-President of the Board of Trade. Another measure of 



COMMERCIAL POLICY OF THE COLTNTRY. 393 

substantial relief, now in contemplation, I have already mention- 
ed to the House, but I am convinced, from the communications 
which I have since received, that I, then, underrated its impor- 
tance. That measure is the abolition of Fees upon Shipping and 
Trade in our colonies. Besides the vexation and liabihty to 
abuse, inseparable from the present system, I know that, in many 
instances, the fees alone, upon a ship and cargo, amount to much 
more than all the public duties collected upon the same. 

The next measure, which I have to propose, is the repeal of 
the Stamp Duty now payable upon the transfer of a whole ship, 
or of any share in a ship, from one person to another. A ship, 
I believe, is the only chattel upon which a duty of this sort 
attaches, as often as \i changes hands. I can trace no reason for 
this anomaly, except one, which ought rather to be a plea for 
exemption. From motives of State policy, we compel the owner, 
or part-owner of any ship, to register his interest or share therein. 
From this registry the ship-owner derives no advantage — on the 
contrary, however improved the forms and regulations now 
observed, it is at best to him troublesome, and more or less 
obnoxious to litigation. By consolidating and amending the 
registry laws, I have done every thing in my power to mitigate 
those inconveniences, but still every transfer must be registered. 
Now, to take advantage of a law, which compels the names of 
all owners to be registered, in order to attach a heavy stamp 
duty on every transfer that may be made in the ownership, is an 
unnecessary aggravation of a necessary inconvenience, and in 
itself a great injustice. I shall, therefore, submit a resolution for 
abolishing the whole of this transfer duty upon shipping, by which 
I shall, at once, relieve the owners of this description of property 
from a partial tax, and from some degree of annoyance. 

There is also another stamp duty, in respect to which I am 
anxious to afford relief I mean the duty on Debentures for the 
payment of Drawbacks, and on Bonds, given by the merchants, 
for the due delivery of the goods which they have declared for 
exportation. I propose this relief, partly, upon the same principle 
as that which I have stated in respect to the transfer of ships. 
These bonds are not entered into for the benefit of the merchant, 
but for the security of the Revenue; besides, from their being 
ad valorem stamps, they frequently lead to great abuses and per- 
jury. I will not trouble the Committee with details upon this 
subject. I propose to reduce these stamps to a fixed duty of 
only 5s. upon each instrument. 

As connected with the same subject, — the rehef of our com- 
merce and shipping from direct pecuniary charges, — I beg leave 
now to call the attention of the Committee to the change which 
I shall propose in the system of our Consular establishments in 
2Z 



394 EXPOSITION OF THE FOREIGN 

foreign ports. These establishments are regulated by no fixed 
principle, in respect to the mode of remunerating the individuals 
employed in this branch of the public service. In one port, the 
consul' receives a salary, — in another he is paid exclusively by 
fees, — in a third, he receives both a salary and fees. There is 
no general rule in this respect, applicable even to the whole- of 
the same country. The consuls at Havre and Marseilles have 
no salaries. The consul at Bourdeaux has a salary, and is allow- 
ed fees. The consul at Antwerp has a salary. The consul at 
Rotterdam has none. The consul at Stettin has a salary. The 
consul at Dantzig none. At Madeira, the consul has a salary, — 
at the Azores none. The scale of fees, the principle upon which 
they are levied, the authority for enforcing their payment, and 
the mode of levying them, appear to be quite as various and un- 
settled as the mode of remuneration. In some ports, the fees 
attach upon the vessel, — in others, upon the merchandize. In 
some ports, vessels pay all alike, without regard to their tonnage, 
— in others, the fees are rated in proportion to the size of the 
vessel. In some ports, again, the fees are an ad valorem charge 
upon the cargo, — in others, so much per ton upon the freight, 
without regard to its value. Now, not only all this discrepancy 
in the details of the same establishment cannot be right, and 
would require revision ; but I am of opinion, that the whole prin- 
ciple of providing for our consuls, by authorising them to levy a 
tax upon the shipping and commerce of the country, is wrong. 
In the first place, the foreign trade of the country is one of its 
great public interests, and as much entitled to be protected at the 
public expense, as far as it wants protection in foreign countries, 
as any other great interest. In the next place, in the performance 
*of many of the duties for which consuls are appointed, the ship- 
owner and merchant have no direct or exclusive interest. The 
navigation laws, the quarantine laws, instead of being advantage- 
ous, are inconveniently restrictive to trade; yet to these it is the 
peculiar duty of the consuls to attend. They have other essential 
duties to discharge, in which the merchant and the ship-owner 
have no interest, distinct from that of the whole community. It, 
therefore, appears to me, that it would be just as reasonable to 
tax English travellers, in foreign countries, for the support of our 
political missions, by which they are protected, as it is to tax the 
shipping or the trade, for the payment of our consular estabHsh- 
ments. My object is, to grant to all our consuls fixed and moder- 
ate salaries, to be paid out of the public purse ; such salaries to 
vary, of course, according to the importance and responsibility 
of the station, to the country in which the consul may reside, and 
to other circumstances, which must, from time to time, come 
under the consideration of the Government. In the civil list, 



COMMERCIAL POLICY OF THE COUNTRY. 395 

which is granted for the Hfe of the Sovereign, a sum of 40,000/, 
is allotted for the payment of consular expenses. A considerable 
part of this sum is required for the salaries of certain officers, 
designated as consuls, but who are, at the same time, diplomatic 
agents : I mean our residents at Algiers, and the other courts on 
the coast of Africa, in the Mediterranean. As the remainder of 
this sum will fall far short of what will be necessary for the pay- 
ment of the whole consular charge, I propose that the ditierence 
should be voted annually by this House, upon estimates to be laid 
before us by the proper department. 

If this change should be approved of by the House, the effect 
will be the abolition, generally, of all the present fees payable to 
our consuls, either upon ships or goods, in foreign ports. Certain 
small fees would still remain for personal acts that a consul may 
be called upon to perform, such as notarial instruments, and other 
documents to which his attestation or signature may be required. 
Those fees will be specified in the Bill, and will be reduced to the 
most moderate amount. In regard to another expense, provided 
for, in certain ports, by a tax upon shipping, — I mean the main- 
tenance of a place of worship, the payment of a chaplain, and 
other charges of that description, — I trust, that the British merch- 
ants and inhabitants, residing at, or resorting to, those ports, will 
find no difficulty in raising, by a small voluntary rate among 
themselves, a sufficient sum for these purposes. But, as an en- 
couragement to them to provide the means of performing the im- 
portant duties of religion, I shall propose, in the Bill, to give a 
power to the Government, to advance a sum equal to the amount 
of any subscription which may be so raised, either for erecting a 
place of worship, providing a burial ground, or allotting a suit- 
able salary to a chaplain, in any foreign port, where a British 
consul may reside. 

Having now stated the outlines of the plan, which I have to 
propose, for the improvement of our consular system, it only re- 
mains for me to mention one other subject, in immediate con- 
nexion with it, and certainly of great importance to a very valu- 
able branch of our foreign trade; — I mean our trade to those 
countries, which are known under the name of the Levant. This 
trade was placed under the direction of a chartered company, so 
far back as the reign of James I. Great privileges were confer- 
red upon that company ; and they had also important duties to 
perform. Among their privileges, they were allowed to appoint 
all the consuls to the Levant, and to levy considerable duties on 
all British ships resorting to those countries, for the maintenance 
of those consuls, and the other expenses of their establishment. 
They also obtained, partly by Acts of Parliament, and partly by 
treaty and concession from the Porte, the right of exercising, by 



396 EXPOSITION OF THE FOREIGN 

the'.r agents and consuls, a very extensive jurisdiction over all 
British subjects in the Turkish dominions. These powers and 
trusts have been exercised by the servants of the Company for 
two centuries, often under very difficult circumstances; and, 
generally speaking, with great correctness, fidelity, and discre- 
tion. In the present state, however, of a great part of the coun- 
tries in which these consuls reside, and looking, moreover, to our 
relations with Turkey, as well as with other powers, to the deli- 
cate and important questions of international law, which must 
constantly arise out of the intercourse of commerce with a coun- 
try in a state of civil war, — questions involving discussions, not 
only with the contending parties in that country, but with other 
trading and neutral powers, — it is impossible not to feel that, upon 
political considerations alone, it is highly expedient that the public 
servants of this country, in Turkey, should hold their appoint- 
ments from the Crown. It is to the Crown that foreign powers 
will naturally look for regulating and controlling the conduct of 
those officers, in the exercise of their authority ; and it is certaiji- 
]y most fit, not only on this account, but for the due maintenance 
of that authority, that they should be named, not by a trading 
company, however respectable, but, like other consuls, directly 
by the Crown, advised, as it must be in their selection, by its re- 
sponsible servants. 

If this change in the mode of appointing the consuls in the 
Levant be called for upon political grounds, it would be highly 
absurd not to take advantage of the occasion to bring them, in 
all other respects, under the regulations of the new consular 
establishment. It becomes the more important not to neglect this 
opportunity of affording relief to the Levant trade, as the dues, 
which the company is authorized to levy, are very considerable, 
amounting to a tax not much short of two per cent, upon the 
whole of that trade ; a charge quite sufficient, in these times, to 
divert a considerable part of it from the shipping of this country 
to that of other States. It is due to the noble lord* who is at the 
head of the Levant company, to state, that, as soon as this sub- 
ject was brought under his consideration, he manifested the 
greatest readiness to assist the views of Government in respect 
to the proposed changes. Nothing less was to be expected from 
this distinguished individual, who, in his dignified retirement, still 
interests himself, with the feelings of a statesman, and the wis- 
dom of a philosopher, in the progress of those sound commercial 
principles, whicli, in their application, have already conferred so 
much benefit upon this country. This noble lord called together 
the company over which he presides, and proposed to them a 

* Lord Grenville. 



COMMERCIAL POLICY OF THE COUNTRY. 397 

voluntary surrender of the charter which they had enjoyed for 
two hundred years. In the most praisewortliy manner, the com- 
pany acquiesced in this suggestion. His Majesty will be advised 
to accept the surrender so tendered ; but it cannot be carried into 
effect without an act of parliament. Among other requisite 
arrangements to be provided for by the bill, will be the transfer 
of a fund w^hich the company has accumulated out of their 
revenue, and the abolition of the taxes by which that revenue was 
produced, 

I have now travelled over the wide field of the alterations, 
w^hich I undertook to submit to the Committee, in the commercial 
concerns of this country. I wish that my statement, to many 
members of this House comparatively uninteresting, had been 
more perspicuous, for the sake of those who have paid attention 
to this subject. I was desirous to bring it under consideration 
before the recess, in order that the details might be dispassionately 
and generally considered by the several interests throughout the 
country, which are likely to be affected by the measures which I 
have now proposed. They are open to alterations, and to amend- 
ment I shall be happy to pay every attention in my power to 
Avhatever suggestions may be transmitted to me, from any quarter, 
for this purpose. All I ask now of the Committee is, to take under 
their protection the comprehensive principle of the system which 
I have ventured to recommend, and that, so far, they will look 
upon it as a state measure, connected with the public prosperity. 
If, to this extent, it shall receive their steady countenance and 
support, this session will not close without our having proved to 
this, as well as to other countries, that we have not lost sight of 
the recommendation from the throne — to remove as much, and 
as fast as possible, all unnecessary restrictions upon trade. 

Mr. Alderman Thompson expressed his hearty concurrence in the proposi- 
tions laid down by the rig^ht honourable, the President of the Board of Trade; 
whose luminous exposition of the genuine principles of our commercial policy 
must excite the admiration of every friend of the country. Mr. Baring ob- 
served, that what he most approved of in the proposed alterations was, that 
they went upon general principles, without any undue regard to private 
interests. Great Britain, as the principal commercial country of the world, 
ought to set the gxample of free trade to other nations. Sir Henry Pamell 
hoped the right honourable gentleman would not stop in his career, until he 
had given the country, really and substantially, the full benefit of a perfectly 
free system of trade. Sir H. Vivian, adverting to the proposed duty on 
foreign books, said, that if the present duties were removed, all copyrights in 
this country would be done away with. Even at present, French and Ger- 
man editions of our popular northern novels might be had abroad much under 
the price at which they could be sold in England. 
34 



398 EXPOSITION OF THE FOREIGN 

Mr. HusKissoN said, he was anxious to set himself right with 
the committee, as to his intention with respect to the reduction of 
the duty on foreign books. The honourable member must surely 
be aware, that the Copyright Act gave full protection to such 
works as those given to the world by the " Great Unknown ;" 
and, indeed, to all who thought proper to avail themselves of the 
protection of that act. He was aware that those delightful works 
were printed and sold in every city of France and Germany ; but 
if it could be shown that a single copy of these works published 
abroad was sold here, the person selling it was liable to an action 
of damages. With respect to the books of which there was no 
copyright, he could see no reason why a monopoly should be 
allowed here, or why the people of England, who wished to read 
such books, should not be allowed to purchase them at the 
cheapest rate. 

He would offer one word upon what had been said, with respect 
to the repeal of the duties on foreign copper. He had formerly 
stated, that in case the duty of 27/. per ton on copper should be 
so high as to raise the price of that article in this country to an 
extravagant degree, he should feel himself at liberty, acting upon 
the principle which he had already laid down, to reduce that duty 
still lower. He did not believe that such would be the effect of 
the proposed reduction. But, in order to set himself right with 
the Committee, he would add, that his only object was to protect 
the miner on the one hand, while on the other he took care that 
the interests of the country should be attended to, by allowing the 
importation of copper to take place, when the increased price at 
home required it. 

As to the iron trade, which an honourable member had alluded 
to, the fact was, that the present duty on old iron was 175. 6d. 
per ton. This sort of iron was that which, in the trade, was 
known by the designation of scrap iron, and the duty in question 
he should propose to reduce to 12s. a ton. If he were to make 
too great a difference between the duties on the two sorts of iron, 
there would be an endeavour to bring all the species under the 
operation of the duty affecting this inferior description. 

With regard to the timber-trade, he was surprised that the 
honourable gentleman who had the other night presented a strong 
petition to the House in favour of the reduction of the duty on 
Cape wines, on the ground of their being the production of one of 
our own colonies, should now argue, in fact, against the protec- 
tion afforded to the timber trade of Canada. Why ! he must 
recollect that Canadian timber, considering that it grew in one 
of our own colonies, and was transported in our own ships, was 
a most valuable trade to Great Britain. And as an additional 
argument why the existing duties on other timber should not be 



COMMERCIAL POLICY OF THE COUNTRY. 399 

further reduced, he would just observe, that there was no trade 
•which, by reason of increased demand, had lately attained a more 
improved and prosperous condition, than the trade in Baltic 
timber. The Board of Trade would shortly, he trusted, be able 
to consider the proper steps to be taken for equalizing the duties 
on timber ; which he believed would be the same as those that 
were now pursued in Ireland, where the mode of estimating such 
duties was by tale, instead of by estimation of the quantity of 
timber contained in any given number of planks. In conclusion, 
he begged to repeat, that he could not accede to the suggestions 
of the honourable member for Montrose ; inasmuch as no trade 
was more flourishing at present than the rival trade (as with 
respect to Canada it might be called) of Baltic timber. 

The several Resolutions were agreed to. 



( 400 ) 



COMBINATION LAWS. 

MARCH 29th, 1825. 
In pursuance of the notice he had given, 

Mr. HusKissoN rose, he said, with considerable regret, to call 
the attention of the House to a subject that was of the highest 
importance to the commercial interests of this empire, but which, 
in consequence, as he apprehended, of some misconstruction that 
prevailed among certain classes in this country, in respect of a 
legislative proceeding of the last session, repealing the Combina- 
tion Laws, seemed likely to be attended with most inconvenient 
and dangerous consequences. He certainly considered, that the 
parties immediately interested in that proceeding had been sub- 
sequently acting under a misconstruction of the intentions of the 
legislature. Nevertheless, in the motion with which he meant to 
conclude this evening, he did not propose to suggest that the old 
laws against the combinations of workmen or labourers against 
their employers should be again put in force. Those laws were, 
many of them, oppressive and cruel in their operation on work- 
men ; and he had always advocated the principle of allowing 
every man to dispose of his labour to the best advantage, — which 
principle they, in very many instances, had directly violated. 

The right honourable gentleman then proceeded to advert to 
the bringing in of the 5th of George IV. c. 95, and to the avowed 
objects of that bill. He felt himself bound to admit that in prin- 
ciple those objects seemed to be perfectly fair and proper to be 
established, as between workmen and their employers ; but he 
was satisfied that they were not so in practice. Moreover, he 
doubted whether the act in question, as long as it should continue 
to exist, would not have a strong tendency to keep up between 
workmen and their employers a spirit, on one side of alarm, and 
on the other of distrust. But he would briefly review the course 
and effect of that proceeding. It commenced by a motion introduc- 
ed by an honourable gentleman on the opposite side of the House,* 
who pointed out the hardships to which, under the then subsist- 
ing laws, journeymen and others were liable ; and there could be 
no doubt that, in too many cases, those laws were, in a great 
degree, unjust and prejudicial in their operation. A Committee 

*Mr. Hume. 



COMBINATION LAWS. 401 

was accordingly granted to tlie motion of the honourable gentle- 
man, in which it was proposed to go largely into evidence, and 
inquiries on those topics. It was a very full committee, consist- 
ing of about fifty members; and it undoubtedly examined a vast 
variety of evidence, upon all questions connected with the nriain 
intention of its labours. 

The result of those labours was — not that a report was made 
to that House (which, as he thought, would have been the most 
desirable course), stating the grounds upon which the Committee 
had come to the conclusion of recommending the introduction of 
their bill, and thereby affording to the public, and in a more 
especial manner to Parliament, the necessary information as to 
the motives which induced them to recommend such a change of 
the existing law ; — but the result was, that the Committee adopt- 
ed finally a string of resolutions, which involved no such state- 
ment whatever. He should inform the House, that he was him- 
self a member of that Committee ; and perhaps he ought to men- 
tion that circumstance with considerable regret, owing to the fact 
of numerous other engagements and avocations ol" an official 
nature, in which he was all that time extremely busied, having 
prevented him from paying that degree of attention to the busi- 
ness of the Committee, which he could have wished to do, and 
which the importance of its inquiries most undoubtedly demand- 
ed. To the same causes he must refer the indulgence of the 
House, while he stated, that they had equally precluded him, 
when the bill in question was brought into the House, from con- 
sidering it with all the attention and care, in its various stages, 
that it deserved to be considered with. And he might go further, 
and express his regret, that those of its enactments which were 
of a legal nature had not possibly been discussed with all the 
technical knowledge which might have been beneficially applied 
to them by those honourable and learned friends of his, of whose 
professional assistance in ordinary cases Government had the 
benefit. 

The consequence of this had been, that some of the provisions 
of the bill, which afterwards passed into an act, were of a very 
extraordinary nature. Not only did the bill repeal all formei 
statutes relative to combinations and conspiracies of workmen, 
but it even provided, that no proceedings should be had at com- 
mon law on account of any such combination, meeting, conspi- 
racy, or uniting together of journeymen, tStc, for, in fact, almost 
any purpose : and thus, by one clause, it went to preclude the pos- 
sibility of applying any legal remedy to a state of things, which 
might become, and which had since become, a great public evil. 
Now this fact was the more curious, inasmuch as the honourable 
member who introduced the bill, had himself taken occasion to 
34 * 3 A 



402 COMBINATION LAWS. 

state, both in that House and in the Committee, on what he con- 
sidered to be legal authority, — and he, in common, he was sure, 
with every honourable gentleman who heard him, would readily 
allow that the honourable and learned member for Peterborough* 
was indeed high legal authority — that if all the statutes relative 
to combinations were to be repealed, he thought the operation of 
the common law alone would be quite sufficient to repress, among 
workmen, any dangerous and injurious tendency improperly or 
violently to combine against their masters. The bill itself, how- 
ever, repealing thii'ty or forty acts of Parliament, and in this sin- 
gular manner putting aside the common law altogether, was 
brought into the house at a late period of the session ; passed 
through its stage, subsequent to the first reading, on Wednesday 
the 2d of June ; and on Saturday the 5th of June, only four days 
after the second reading, and in the same week, was read a third 
time and passed, without any discussion. The measure was 
therefore hurried on with as much expedition as was usually 
applied to the most pressing bills. 

To the honourable gentleman himself he imputed no blame for 
thus speeding his Bill through the House of Commons. Looking 
to the advanced period of the session, and the discussion which it 
had received in the Committee, it was natural enough that he 
should desire it to go through the House with all this expedition. 
But, since the passing of the Act in question, it had happened to 
him, in his official capacity, to receive information of the conduct 
adopted by bodies of workmen in various parts of the country. 
They were, many of them, very painful accounts ; and to his 
right honourable friend, the Secretary of State for the Home 
Department, numerous reports had been forwarded, detailing acts 
of outrage and violence, on the part of the workmen combined 
against their employers, of the most disgraceful character. His 
right honourable friend had permitted him to inspect those reports ; 
and he could state, that they manifested, in all those classes of 
workmen who had misconceived the real object of the legislature 
in the late Act, a disposition to combine against the masters, and 
a tendency to proceedings destructive of the property and busi- 
ness of the latter, which, if left to itself, and permitted to remain 
unchecked, must terminate in producing the greatest mischiefs to 
the country. Indeed, those mischiefs were rapidly growing, in 
some districts, to so alarming a pitch, that if their progress was 
not speedily repressed and interrupted, they would very soon 
become rather a subject for his right honourable friend to deal 
with in the exercise of his olBcial functions, than for him to call 

*Mr. Scarlett. 



COMBINATION LAWS. 403 

vhe attention of the House to, in this manner. These things could 
not remain much longer in their present condition. Unless Par- 
liament should interfere to place them on a difibrent footing, his 
ria;ht honourable friend — armed as he was by the State, with the 
authority of calling in aid to the civil pawer (where that proceed- 
ing w^as necessary by the urgency of the case), for the protection 
of the property and liberty of the King's subjects — would find 
himself necessitated so to interpose against what he could not but 
consider a very formidable conspiracy in certain bodies of men, 
calculated to place that liberty and property, and perhaps life 
itself, in great jeopardy, as regarded certain individuals, who 
employed large numbers of labourers and journeymen. But, by a 
timely inquiry into, and consideration of, the subject, Parliam.ent 
might be enabled to deal with it, as with a question merely of 
commercial polity. 

He wished to treat it as a question, on the one hand, of the 
freedom of labour, looking to the right which every man natural- 
ly claimed to exercise over his own labour; and, on the other, as 
a question upon the effect of those principles that had formerly 
prevailed in this country, with regard to the right in those claim- 
ing this freedom of labour, of interfering with, and exercising a 
control over, parties largely employing such labour. But, he must 
beg to repeat his conviction, that if Parliament did not very soon 
interfere to reconsider the whole of this question, in all these 
branches, they would find that the evil which was already exist- 
ing, would quickly attain an extremely mischievous height. They 
would then be obliged to apply to it other means and another 
remedy. If such should unfortunately ever be the case, he did 
hope that his right honourable friend would not only not be back- 
ward to employ those means and that power with -which he was 
vested for the removal of the evil he spoke of, but that, if neces- 
sary, he would apply to Parliament to be furnished with further 
powers to prevent the baneful operation of a tyranny, as he must 
call it, that was now exercised over a great portion of the pro- 
perty, and the liberty of some of his Majesty's subjects, in many 
parts of the country. 

But, while he thus designated the character of those combina- 
tions which had been so extensively formed by men who were 
obviously proceeding altogether in error, he did trust, that on ac- 
count of what he had been saying, he should not be considered 
as a person who was at all hostile — nay, who was not friendly — 
to the right of labour — to the right which every man, generally 
speaking, had, to dispose of his labour and skill to the best ad- 
vantage, or as he might think proper. As a general principle, he 
undoubtedly thought that every man had a fair inherent right to 
carry his own labour to w^hatever market he pleased, and so to 



404 COMBINATION LAWS. 

make the best of It; and, accordingly, he had always maintained 
that labour was the poor man's cajoital. But then, on the other 
hand, he must as strenuously contend for the perfect freedom of 
those who were to give employment to that labour. Theirs was 
the property which rendered that labour necessary — theirs was 
the machinery on which that labour was to be employed — theirs 
was the capital by which its employment was to be paid for. At 
least) therefore, they were entitled to equal freedom of action ; 
and that property, that machinery, and that capital, ought to be 
as sacred and unfettered, as the labour which was the admitted 
property of the workman. If their right, and title, and freedom 
in all these matters could not be sustained ; so neither could there 
be kept and retained in the country the means of employing 
labour ; and the workmen themselves would be the victims of a 
delusive system of attempted influence and intimidation over the 
employers. 

He would not unnecessarily detain the House by entering at 
any length into details, to show that such a system was, in several 
quarters, now acted upon. Meetings had been held, and associa- 
tions formed, in different parts of the country, which, if persevered 
in and prosecuted successfully, must terminate in the ruin and 
destruction of the very men who were parties to them. Now, as 
to the individuals who had adopted measures of this kind, it might 
not be immaterial to advert to one or two papers that he held in 
his hand, which pretty clearly developed what were their own 
views, and what their own proposals, in respect of this right which 
they had assumed of interference with the property and the con- 
cerns of their employers. The first which he had with him was 
entitled, " The Articles of Regulation of the Operative Colliers of 
Lanark and Dumbarton." The second was a similar production 
of the Ayrshire Association; and he could produce a great 
number of such rules and articles and regulations, each body of 
them absolutely forming as regular a constitution, as any of those 
which we were now almost daily reading of, as arising from the 
new governments that wei'e springing up in every part of the 
world. These associations had their delegates, their presidents, 
their committees of management, and every other sort of func- 
tionary comprised in the plan of a government. By the ninth 
article of one of the sets of regulations, it was provided, " that 
the delegates from all the diflferent works should assemble at one 
and the same place," on certain stated occasions: so that the 
House would perceive, that this provision regarded not a com-, 
bination of all the workmen of one employer against him, or even 
of one whole trade against the masters; but something more 
formidable and extensive in its nature — namely, a systematic 
union of the workmen of many different trades, and a delegation 



COMBINATION LAWS. 405 

from each of them to one central meeting. Thus there was 
established, as against the employers, a formal system of delega- 
tion, a kind of federal republic — all the trades being represented 
by delegates, who formed a sort of Congress. Another regulation 
was to this effect — " Each delegate shall be paid out of his own 
work" (the earnings which he was to be permitted to make, and 
of which a portion was subscribed by every member having em- 
ployment for the purposes of these associations), " with these ex- 
ceptions only — the President" (or the head of this Government), 
" the Secretary, and the Treasurer are to be paid out of the 
general funds : the delegates are elected for six months, and may 
be re-elected." So that here was a tax levied upon each workman 
for the maintenance of general funds applicable to purposes of 
this mischievous character. 

But he would particularly call the attention of the House to the 
eleventh article; inasmuch as it clearly demonstrated the real 
meaning and intentions of the societies thus constituted. " It is 
the duty of these delegates, first, to point out the masters they 
dislike" — a duty in itself sufficiently dangerous and illegal: 
" Secondly, to warn such masters" — of what ? — " of the danger in 
which they are placed in consequence of this combination." Here, 
therefore, was an acknowledgment of the danger of such associa- 
tions, admitted by themselves. But let the House observe what 
followed : " And, thirdly, to try every thing which prudence 
might dictate to put them" (the masters) " out of the trade" — not, 
let it be observed, every thing which fairness and justice might 
dictate to workmen who sought really to obtain a redress of 
grievances ; but every thing which " prudence" might dictate. 
In such a position "prudence" must be understood as implying 
merely that degree of precaution that might prevent the "Union" 
from being brought within a breach of the law — such as the 
crime of murder, for example. Now, was it fit, or right, or 
reasonable, that persons engaged in commercial or other pursuits 
— such as mining, for example — should, by combinations thus 
organized, and by pretensions of this kind, be kept in constant 
anxiety and terror about their interests and property? In order 
to show how regularly organised these bodies were, and how 
they proposed to exercise the mischievous tyranny that he com- 
plained of, over such masters as might happen to be placed with- 
in the sphere of their control, he would just allude to the thirteenth 
article: — "These articles may be modified and altered at any 
meeting of the delegates : and if sanctioned at such meeting by 
two-thirds of the delegates present, they shall be final. The power 
of levying money from all the members of the association must 
be left to the general committee." So that these were not to be 
voluntary, but compulsory contributions, actually " levied" upon 



406 COMBINATION LAWS. 

all the parties to the union. " All laws passed at the meetings of 
the delegates will be binding on all whom those delegates repre- 
sent." Now, one of these laws was, " that there should never be 
allowed to be any stock of coals in the hands of any of the 
masters;" because, if such stock were allowed, they would be 
less dependent on the workmen, and might possess some means 
of rescuing themselves from the tyranny and control of this asso- 
ciation or union. 

Other associations, however, were governed by regulations, if 
possible, more extraordinary. One of these regulations was, that 
no man coming into any given district or county within the con- 
trol assumed by the associating parties, should be allowed to 
work, without being previously amerced 5/., to be applied to the 
funds of the association. And another of the regulations" was, 
that any child being permitted to work or assist (as, for instance, 
a man's son), should, at ten years old, be reckoned a quarter of a 
man, and pay a proportionable amercement accordingly. In like 
manner, it was provided, that any man being called in by any 
collier to his assistance, should not be at liberty to work under 
him, unless previously adopted, hke the collier, by the society, 
and unless, like him, he should previously have paid his 5/. Now, 
in this part of the empire there could not exist any doubt what- 
ever, looking to the artificial situation in which this country was 
placed, with regard to many of its institutions, and particularly 
in regard to the poor laws, that parties who were Hable some day 
or other to become reversionaries on that immense fund, had no 
right to take measures that had an obvious tendency to throw 
them on that fund, and so increase the burden which its support 
imposed upon the country. And without desiring to restrict the 
right or choice of any individuals as to the legal disposal of their 
means, he could not help asking, whether this amercement of 5/., 
and this subscription of Is. a week to the funds of the association, 
which every member of it was called upon to pay and contribute, 
would not produce to each of the parties, if placed in a saving- 
bank, far more beneficial and advantageous results? What could 
be the meaning or motive of creating all these presidents, and 
permanent committees of management, if there were not among 
these combinations many persons anxious for the enjoyment of 
the power and distinction which they considered the attainment 
of certain posts like these would confer upon them ? And was it 
not in human nature almost an invariable principle, that in all 
contests for all kinds of power, the most artful were those who 
usually obtained their object and seated themselves in places of 
authority ? This consideration rendered it still more necessary to 
look narrowly at the constitution of these assemblies. 

Another of their rules was, that every measure to be adopted 



COMBINATION LAWS. 407 

should previously undergo a full discussion, and that the majority 
should bind the rest, — a very f)roper rule in debating societies, no 
doubt ; and one, he believed, very generally adopted in them, but 
it was one which, under these circumstances, he could not ap- 
prove ot^, thinking it to be, in its consequences and application, 
inconsistent with that power, that freedom from all external con- 
trol, which the masters or employers were obviously entitled to, 
in the administration and management of their own property. 
That he had not over-stated either facts or their possible effect, 
the twenty-second of the articles from which he had been reading 
would sufficiently show. It was conceived in these terms: — "No 
operative, being a member of this association, shall be at liberty 
to engage himself for any given time or price, without the consent 
of the committee of management." Why, if a system of this kind 
was to extend itself through the operative population engaged in 
all the different branches of mining, manufactures, navigation, and 
shipping in this country, in what a painful situation would every 
body concerned be placed ! Who would, for an instant, endure a 
control of this oppressive, of this destructive nature ? Yet, such a 
control, under the prevalence of such principles, might exist : and 
when he said it might, he was sorry to add that it did exist. For 
example, it existed in that most important branch of our com- 
mercial greatness, our coasting trade. There had been a society 
formed, called the " Seamen's Union." The principles and objects 
of this combination had been promulgated in the form of a little 
dialogue — not the less interesting, be it observed, on that account, 
to those whom they were addressed to. In this, as in other con- 
cerns, it seemed that the association had come to the determina- 
tion of not submitting to the authority of any persons whom they 
had not themselves appointed or approved. He would here ask, 
in relation to doctrines of this sort, how it would be possible to 
carry on business in mining concerns, for example, if the work- 
men themselves should have the appointment of all the overseers 
under whose superintendence they were employed 1 In the same 
manner, however, it appeared, that they who were employed as 
seamen in the coasting trade would not put to sea, unless all the 
rest of the crew were members of their union. 

Having stated to the House, that it was positively one of the 
articles agreed upon by this Union, that men thus employed 
should do nothing which they had never before been called upon 
to do as seamen, but which it was quite evident it might be very 
material on particular emergencies that they should do, let the 
Hon?e observe the mischiefs which must arise from such a regula- 
tion. He could adduce, if it were necessary, a case that had 
occurred very recently, in which a vessel, coal-laden, got on a 
sand-bank at the mouth of the river. It became necessary to 



408 COMBINATION LAWS, 

have her ballast shifted ; but it so happened, that one of the 
regulations to be found in this dialogue between Tom and Harry 
purported, that it was unworthy a seaman to assist in shifting 
ballast. The consequence was, that on the occasion he was speak- 
ing of, all the men were in a state of insubordination and mutiny; 
and, if some craft had not come up to the vessel's assistance, it 
was impossible to say what mischief might have ensued to her. 
As soon as the ballast had been shifted by the craft's hands, the 
men immediately returned to their duty, and navigated the vessel 
as before. What, however, was the result of their refusal to shift 
the ballast? The men in the craft who had performed that service 
claimed salvage. A sum of 200/. was awarded to them on ac- 
count of salvage ; which, of course, the owners were obliged to 
pay, the salvors themselves unanimously declaring, that the 
danger of the ship and cargo was occasioned by, in fact, the ad- 
herence of the crew to one of the rules of this "Seamen's Union." 
If any man after this could be found to affirm that such principles 
and such conduct were not matter for the interference of ParHa- 
ment, he would only say, that Parliament had better at once 
resign every idea of giving protection to any species of pro- 
perty. 

He was really not surprised, notwithstanding, when he looked 
at the way in which the act of last session was worded, and the 
artful misconstruction that might easily be put upon it by those 
who best knew how to mislead and deceive the men who had 
engaged in these combinations, that those men should have 
erroneously supposed their proceedings to be warranted under 
this act. The act, as he had before intimated, repealed all former 
statutes, and so on ; and it then enacted, that no proceedings at 
common law should be had by reason of any combinations or 
conspiracies of workmen formerly punishable under those repeal- 
ed statutes. The House would perceive, that the second section 
declared, " that journeymen, workmen, and other persons, who 
shall hereafter enter into any combination to obtain higher rate 
of wages," and so forth ; " or to regulate the mode of carrying 
on any manufacture, trade, or business, or the management 
thereof, shall not be subject or liable to any indictment or pro- 
secution for a criminal conspiracy or combination, or to any 
other proceeding or punishment whatever, or under the common 
statute law." Now, would not any one, on reading this sentence, 
suppose it was something really proper, and almost commend- 
able, for workmen to combine and conspire together to regulate 
and control the management of any manufacture? And accord- 
ingly, — without imputing to the framers of the bill the slightest 
idea on their parts, that such a misapprehension could ever be 
entertained, — he did not doubt that a great proportion of the 



COMBINATION LAWS. 409 

associated and combined workmen in the country did actually 
believe, that so far from violating the law, this clause proved that 
they had been only pursuing a course that was strictly conform- 
able with the meaning of the legislature. If, then, it was only to 
set these men right, it would be highly proper that some inquiry 
should be forthwith instituted with this view, and that the Com- 
mittee charged to make it should report to the House what would 
be the most eligible steps to be adopted in consequence. 

He would next ofler a word or two on the fifth section of the 
same act. That section provided, not that any such combination 
or conspiracy should be visited with any punishment, or be made 
matter of legal cognizance, but " that if any person shall here- 
after by threats deter a man from his hiring, or engage in any 
combination or conspiracy to destroy any machinery, goods, 
wares, or merchandizes, he shall, upon being convicted of such 
offence before a magistrate, on the evidence of any two witnesses, 
be punished with two months' imprisonment." Now, it surely 
did not require any act of Parliament — (he was speaking in the 
presence of his honourable and learned friend the Attorney-Gene- 
ral, who would correct him if he was wTong) — to declare, that 
to deter a man by threats from his hiring, or to destroy, or com- 
bine and conspire for the destruction of goods or machinery, was 
an offence to be made punishable in a certain way, upon convic- 
tion. Such acts were already oflences by the law of the land, 
independent of any thing like combination ; and in so far, at least, 
the declarations and provisions of this act were quite supereroga- 
tory. By the law of the land some of these offences would be 
actual felonies; others high misdemeanors. It was equally ex- 
traordinary, that the act should require the conviction to be on 
the oath of two witnesses — two witnesses being necessary only 
in cases of high treason and perjury — and that the punishment 
should be limited to tw^o months' imprisonment. Therefore, here 
was a law that contemplated certain offences which had in them- 
selves nothing, necessarily, to do with the offence of combinations 
— which regarded quite different questions. But under this act — 
plotting together for the destruction of machinery — threatening 
even, which proceeded to menace of life or property, were no 
longer any criminal offence whatever; and thus, by repealing the 
combination laws, the acts of plotting and threatening were ren- 
dered no criminal offences at all. 

Under these circumstances, he must consider that the law of 
which he had been speaking was not adequate to put down an 
evil which was increasing to so formidable an extent; not the 
evil of committing the other offences to which the act had so 
particularly adverted, but the evil of workmen being permitted 
to plot, and the bold open avowal of their intention to carry such 
35 3B 



410 COMBINATION LAWS. 

permission (as they presumed it to be) into effect, in the kind of 
manner he had pointed out to the notice of the House — a man- 
ner, the most destructive, perhaps, which it was in their power 
to devise, to the property of their masters and employers. He 
did conceive that if these misguided men could be induced, for 
one moment, to reflect upon what must be the inevitable con- 
sequences of the course they were pursuing, they must see that 
such a course of proceeding, if continued, would render it impos- 
sible for any body to embark his capital under risks so great as 
those which he had pointed out; or to submit its application to a 
system of tyranny and control, which nobody with capital would 
for a moment choose to endure. If they would reflect on these 
facts, they would perceive the impossibility of their being left at 
liberty to pursue the career of violence and combination, in which 
they were now proceeding; and that they must softn cease 
altogether to procure employment for their own subsistence. For, 
so sure as they persevered in their measures, capital must desert 
the districts in which they were carried on, and ultimately, unless 
the evil was arrested, the kingdom itself, for other countries. 

He would only add, that he would recommend to those who 
employed numerous workmen, not lightly to submit to such ex- 
travagant pretensions, and to feel assured, that if the present pre- 
vailing misconstruction of the law should be thought by the work- 
men to justify those pretensions, the magistrates would give the 
masters their support against any such demands. If that support 
should be found still inadequate, his right honourable friend would 
not fail to afford them such further assistance as might be neces- 
sary to protect them from those measures which had so fatal a 
tendency to destroy the property of the employers, and to dry up 
the sources of labour to the workmen. In what state the law 
with regard to combinations should be put — whether the last act, 
repealing all the old statutes, should in its turn be repealed al- 
together, or not, he was not at present prepared to suggest, and 
had not in his own mind determined : but, the necessity for inquiry 
did not seem on that account the less urgent. He should be very 
sorry to see all those laws which were formerly in force on this 
subject, renewed ; but it might be well worth their consideration 
to ascertain, whether something at least more definite and effec- 
tual than the existing statute could not be devised — something 
that mio;ht prevent the evil he had been describing from extend- 
ing itself any further than the point to which it had already ar- 
rived. This was a question that deserved the most serious atten- 
tion of the House. 

In the mean time, he felt that in having submitted these matters 
to their consideration, and in calling upon them, in virtue of the 
situation which he had the honour to fill, to give a more effectual 



COMBINATION LAWS. 411 

protection, forthwith, to the property employed in the hire and 
application of labour, and also to the labour applied to the im- 
provement and increase of property, he was acting in the con- 
scientious discharge of what he believed to be his public duty. 
He did still indulge the hope, that, by the timely interference of 
Parliament, they might yet prevent that interruption to the public 
peace, which must infallibly be the consequence of their remain- 
ing any longer inactive spectators of a mischief that was rapidly 
increasing, and which, if not speedily arrested, must be followed 
by the most disastrous results. He had trusted, that whatever 
might be the first ebullition of the feelings of the workmen, on 
finding themselves emancipated from some of the grievous re- 
straints imposed by the old laws in question on their industry, 
their ov^^n good sense would have instructed them to withdraw 
from a path, so fraught with difficulties and dangers as that which 
they had so unwisely adopted. That anticipation he could now, 
unhappily, no longer indulge ; and it was with the hope of thereby 
doing justice to both parties — the workmen and their employers 
— that he now moved, " for the appointment of a Select Com- 
mittee, to inquire into the effect of the act of the 5th George IV., 
cap. 95, in respect to the conduct of Workmen and others, in 
different parts of the United Kingdom : and to report their 
opinion how far it may be necessary to repeal or amend the pro- 
visions of the said act." He was aware that in making this mo- 
tion he might expose himself to some obloquy, and the expression 
of much dissatisfaction ainong some of the parties to whom it 
related ; and particularly in a place where he was most anxious 
to stand well, and among those who had sent him to that House. 
However this might be, he had only to do his duty fearlessly and 
properly; and he had no doubt that upon a little reflection, the 
same parties would be among those who would feel most obliged 
to him for having, in this instance at least, performed it. 

The motion was agreed to, and a Committee appointed. 



( 412 ) 



COMBINATION LAWS. 

MAY 3d, 1825. 

On presenting a petition from Northampton, respecting the Combination 
Laws, Mr. Cartwright said, he wished to ask the President of the Board of 
Trade, whether it was in his contemplation to propose any further measure 
on this subject, during the present session. 

Mr. HusKissoN said, the honourable gentleman had asked him, 
whether it was intended to propose any measure this session, on 
a subject which, he agreed with the honourable member, deserved 
the serious attention of the House. He meant the present state 
of the country, with regard to the conduct of the Workmen, 
whose practices, in forming Combinations, were extending them- 
selves to every part of the kingdom. The House were aware, 
that a Committee was sitting up stairs, for the purpose of in- 
vestigating the effect produced by the law of last session. That 
Committee was pursuing its labours with all proper vigilance, and 
would, he trusted, be in a situation to make a report to the House 
without the intervention of any great delay. He admitted, with 
the honourable member, that it was a subject which pressed for 
decision. It was not his wish, nor that of any gentleman on that 
Committee, to interfere with the meetings, or combinations, as 
they were called, of those individuals, so far as related to the 
amount of their own wages. They were at liberty to take all 
proper means to secure that renumeration for their labour, to 
which they conceived they were entitled — to consider the cir- 
cumstances of a greater demand for labour, or a greater expense 
incurred in the purchase of provisions. Under circumstances of 
this nature, they might reasonably ask for larger wages: but, 
they did not stop here. They combined for purposes of the most 
unjustifiable description : they combined to dictate to their masters 
the mode in which they should conduct their business: they com- 
bined to dictate whether the master should take an apprentice or 
not : they combined for the purpose of preventing certain indi- 
viduals from working, they combined to enforce the principle, 
that wages should be paid alike to every man, whether he were 
a good workman or a bad one ; and they levied heavy fines on 
those parties who refused to agree to their conditions. 

What he complained of, on the part of the employers, as well 
as on the part of those who were willing to labour, was, that the 



COMBINATION LAWS. 413 

persons thus combining not only prevented the employers from 
carrying on their business with their assistance, but they prevented 
individuals who wished to work from getting employment at all. 
He believed that, at the present moment, a great part of the 
woollen manufacturers were standing still, on account of com- 
binations of this sort. They existed in London, and he understood 
that they had spread through various parts of the country, to a 
very extensive degree. He did not wish to resort to the old com- 
bination law, or to any measure that would not give equal pro- 
tection to the employed, as well as to the employer. But un- 
questionably it was necessary that something should be done to 
remedy the existing evil. The tyranny of the many would, he 
apprehended, be allowed to be worse than the tyranny of the 
few ; and he must say, that the conduct of those who kept up 
these combinations threatened to destroy the peace and prosperity 
of the manufacturing interests. It was undoubtedly time to remove 
these evils ; and he would, as soon as possible, endeavour to do 
so, by suggesting some efficient means, for the equal protection 
of the master and the workman. 
35* 



( 414 ) 
ROMAN CATHOLIC RELIEF BILL. 

MAY 10th, 1825. 

On the order of the day for the third reading of the Bill brought in by Sir 
Francis Burdett, " to provide for the removal of the Disqualifications under 
which his Majesty's Roman Catholic subjects now labour 

Mr. HusKissoN rose and spoke as follows :* — 

After the frequent, the ample, and, above all, the very able 
discussions which this subject has undergone within the walls of 
this House, it is with no small degree of hesitation and reluctance 
that I venture to offer myself to your notice. If some apology be 
necessary for this instrusion, the only plea which I can offer is 
one which has been allowed to other individuals in the like situa- 
tion with myself; namely, that I have hitherto abstained from 
doing more than give silent votes upon this most important con- 
cern. Of these gone-by votes I can only say, that there are none 
which I have ever given, in the course of a long parliamentary 
career, to which I look back with a more entire satisfaction, and 
a more conscientious conviction that they were right, than to 
those votes which had for their object the furtherance of any 
measure which has been brought into this House, either for the 
partial relaxation, or the more general repeal, of those Laws 
which affect the Roman Catholics. 

Not, Sir, that I, any more than other honourable gentlemen 
who have addressed this House, have done so with any desire to 
show favour to the Catholics, or to their religion. With the 
spiritual tenets and doctrines of that religion I have nothing to do 
— for the practices and pretensions of the Romish hierarchy, either 
as affecting the relations of private life, or the maintenance and 
security of civil liberty, especially when those practices and pre- 
tensions are backed by the arm of secular power, I certainly feel 
any thing but partiality or admiration. Neither, Sir, am I, as 
some who hear me may perhaps be, under any obligation, per- 
sonal or political, to the followers of that Church ; but I do owe 
it to justice to vote for the repeal of every penal restraining or 
disqualifying enactment, affecting either the Roman Catholic, or 

*This speech, excepting the passages included within brackets, is printed 
from manuscript notes, found in the hand-writing of Mr. Huskisson since his 



ROMAN CATHOLIC RELIEF BILL. 415 

any other class of his Majesty's subjects, so soon as it shall ap- 
pear to me, that the necessity for continuing that enactment, 
either on account of the evil for which it was a remedy, or the 
danger which it was intended to avert, shall have ceased to exist. 

On this ground, and on this ground only, the Roman Catholics 
are clearly entitled to my vote. But to my country I owe that 
vote on other, and with me more important, considerations. To 
W'ithhold Catholic emancipation, in my judgment, is to keep alive 
dangerous discontents, which retard the progress of public pros- 
perity in time of peace, which may perhaps render the tenure of 
that peace less permanent and less secure, and which, in the event 
of war, must certainly tend to impair those resources, and to 
divide and distract those energies, which ought to be concentrat- 
ed and directed, with one common effort, against the public enemy 
of the State. 

I shall confine myself to this brief and general statement of the 
grounds on which I shall vote for the motion — first, because I am 
anxious to keep my promise in not taking up the time of the 
House ; and secondly, because I am aware that on this, as on 
former occasions, the subject has been exhausted ; and that every 
thing which the powers of reason could adduce in the way of 
argument — every thing which historical research and constitu- 
tional learning could bring to bear upon the question, in the way 
of information — every thing which eloquence and ingenuity could 
address, either to the generosity or the justice of the House, have 
more than once been put forth, and more than once successfully, 
in favour of the cause which I am now endeavouring to advocate. 

Trusting, therefore, that these appeals to their reason, to their 
justice, and to their liberality, will have their due weight in the 
present discussion, I shall proceed at once to what appears to me 
the more practical view of the question now under consideration. 
In that view I shall confine myself to Ireland ; for, apart from 
Ireland, however urgent the claims of the English Catholics, the 
Catholic question w^ould be one comparatively unimportant, and 
of far less difficulty. in its adjustment. 

Sir, I have already said, that I am no admirer of the Catholic 
religion. I go further ; and I have no hesitation to admit, that its 
existence in Ireland, as the religion of the largest portion of that 
community, is a very serious public misfortune. Admitting the 
power and influence claimed by the head of the Romish church 
to be of a nature merely spiritual, and even if I could admit more 
fully than I do, that it is easy on all occasions to distinguish spirit- 
ual from temporal authority, I should still say, that a hierarchy 
so numerous and so extensive, of which the head is a foreign 
potentate, and of which the numerous ramifications, by the prac- 
tice and doctrines of the Catholic church, pervade the inmost 



416 ROMAN CATHOLIC RELIEF BILL. 

recesses of every abode, and acquire a knowledge of the most 
private and secret concerns of every family, is in itself a great 
evil. But I almost readily avow that it is difficult, in some 
instances, distinctly to draw the line between spiritual and tem- 
poral authority ; and I do not deny that in times of ignorance, of 
violence, and disorder, such times as marked the middle and dark 
ages of Christendom, those authorities have been confounded, and 
that they would be again, if the same opportunities occurred of 
superstition on the one side, and the same temptations to ambition 
on the other. But, Sir, it would be as unfair to argue from the 
conduct and pretensions of the Church of Rome in those days, in 
reference to the present subject of debate, as it would be to argue 
from the crimes of the old monarchies of the same periods against 
the principle of limited monarchy, as now happily settled in this 
country. What should we think of the fairness of a man, who 
quoted the cruelties of Louis XI. or Charles IX. of France, or the 
public vices and enormities of some of our own sovereigns of 
former ages, as a proof that hereditaiy monarchy was incom- 
patible with political and civil liberty? How many arguments, 
plausible in the abstract, may be raised against the principle of 
hereditary monarchy — how many illustrations would history 
furnish to countenance these arguments ! But the answer to them 
all is in the example of this country — where limited monarchy is 
much more likely to endure, from the happiness and well-being 
of the state, than the institutions of the most democratic state in 
any other part of the world. And why? — Not, Sir, because the 
sovereigns of this kingdom are not men with all the passions of 
other men — not, Sir, because the order of nature has been 
changed in that Family which has now so auspiciously wielded 
the sceptre of these realms for more than a hundred years — they 
would spurn any such supposition ; but because every member of 
that illustrious Family is as much alive to the blessings of freedom 
as any of the other members of the community — is as fully sensi- 
ble, that the monarch on the throne owes every thing which con- 
stitutes his present greatness, and will be his future glory in 
history, to the constitution of which he is the head, and that that 
constitution is upheld and rendered secure by the intelligence, 
as much as it is by the attachment, of all his people. In like 
manner. Sir, that we have these guarantees for the constitution, 
against what may be stated to be the inconveniences of hereditary 
monarchy in the abstract; so we shall have the guarantee of the 
enlightened state of the Catholic part of our population, — of their 
attachment to the constitution, — of the present state of intelligence 
in the world, — of the vigilance of a government, a population, a 
most learned church establishment, — the guarantee of all our insti- 
tutions, and not least of all, of a free press and free discussion, 



ROMAN CATHOLIC RELIEF BILL. 417 

against the revival of those pretensions and that interference, 
which disgraced the conduct of the Church of Rome, in the darker 
of the vi^orld. 

Returning, however, to the state of Ireland. I admit that the 
proportion which there exists between the Protestant and the 
Catholic parts of the population, would be a great evil in any 
Protestant state ; but that in Ireland, considering the manner in 
which the Protestant faith was introduced into that kingdom, con- 
sidering the transfer of the rich endowments of that Church to 
the Protestant Church, without any corresponding transfer being 
effected in the opinions and feelings of the people — considering 
the other forcible changes which have been made in the property 
of that country, the intensity of that evil is greatly increased. 
But, Sir, that transfer of property is irrevocable. It is so, not 
only because it is so declared and provided by the Act of Union; 
but I am sure that, quite independently of that solemn compact, 
its inviolability must be maintained by every man who under- 
stands the true principles of a free government, and is capable of 
forming a just estimate of what constitutes its strength and most 
secure foundation. Sir, the foundation of all government is 
respect for property. I therefore never will consent to shake that 
foundation to its very centre, by unsettling one description of 
property. I could not do so, without leading to the confounding 
and destruction of property altogether. 

I have thought it right to make this declaration, lest the drift 
of my statement should be misunderstood by any. honourable gen- 
tleman who hears me ; and trusting that every gentleman will 
give me full credit for the sincerity with which it is made, the 
practical questions which I have asked myself whenever I have 
voted on this subject, are, — first, the extent of the evil being 
admitted, is it one which is likely to w ear itself out, or is it not 
one becoming every day more portentous in size, and more alarm- 
ing to the best interests of the empire ? If, as I think, there can 
be but one answer to this question, I should next say to this 
House — Admitting the evil to be growing every day more formi- 
dable, is your mind made up, that an evil of this description must 
take its course, and that there exists no remedy? Sir, it is a good 
old dictum of this House, that nothing is beyond its reach, and 
that there can be no political evil in the State, for which there is 
not to be found some remedy. I trust that this principle is not 
lost sight of by the many, who have hitherto been opposed to 
Catholic Emancipation; but who, perhaps, from having asked 
themselves these same questions, begin now to declare, that 
"something must be done." I am glad that this feeling is preva- 
lent, and to those in whom it prevails, my next question is — What 
is that something ? Do vou hope to convert the Catholics to tho 
3C 



418 ROMAN CATHOLIC RELIEF BILL. 

Protestant church? The expectation of it, as a general measure, 
is too visionary for serious examination, and the chance of it, 
even in individual cases, and by individual zeal, can scarcely be 
indulged, so long as the door of fair discussion and investigation 
is closed, as it always will be, against those who persecute, and 
endeavour to make converts, at the same time. 

If you cannot convert the Catholics, do you hope that growing 
wealth, diffused education, increasing numbers, the development 
and expansion of talent among the educated and higher classes, 
especially those who devote themselves to the learned professions 
— that the example of other countries, and the support, the sym- 
pathy, and the co-operation of so large a portion of the Protes- 
tant community in their own, — the countenance which their 
Claims have received from a majority of this exclusively Protes- 
tant House, and from so large a portion of the Other, are likely 
to make them less eager, and less determined to prosecute those 
claims, for which they are now petitioners at your bar ? No, Sir, 
you can entertain no such expectation. It is not possible. 

Why, then, if something must be done, is it not plain what that 
something must be? You' must disarm the discontent of so many 
millions, by taking away the cause of that discontent. Assuming, 
for the sake of argument, that there is some danger in this course, 
you must ask yourselves, as practical statesmen, — Is not that 
danger less than that of leaving things as they are ? You must 
ask yourselves, whether the present danger be one which, if let 
alone, is calculated to alarm men of firm and constant minds? 
You must ask yourselves, whether the danger which you appre- 
hend be of that description which can reasonably give rise to a 
similar alarm ? Independently of the general knowledge which 
every man must have of the present state of Ireland as pregnant 
with alarm, and threatening a constantly growing danger, we 
have had, in the course of these debates, the reluctant testimony 
of witnesses, who are certainly not wanting in firmness of nerve, 
or vigour of intellect, or opportunities of observation. [Let the 
House look to the opinion of the gallant member for Westmeath. 
He tells you, that he had violent prejudices upon the subject, and 
that it was with the utmost reluctance he surrendered them. He 
tells you of the danger of the present state of things, and that if 
the measure be not granted that danger cannot be postponed. 
From his habits of life, the gallant member knows the value of 
ten thousand well-disciplined troops ; and he tells you, that if the 
question of Catholic Emancipation be carried, it will do more for 
the peace of Ireland, than you could effect by an augmentation 
of your forces to that extent. 

Upon this part of the subject, I will not offer any opinion; but 
will consider the question in reference to the wealth and resour- 



ROMAN CATHOLIC RELIEF BILL. 419 

ces of Ireland. And here I am prepared to maintain, that the 
cost of the Establishment of 10,000 men is by far the least im- 
portant part of the question. It was not the saving of that item 
of expense, but the loss which the country experienced, in con- 
sequence of these restrictions on our Roman Catholic fellow sub- 
jects — and this was a point which gentlemen who were accus- 
tomed to discuss questions of political economy would do well to 
consider — from the absence of all the benefit which would, under 
other circumstances, be derived from the employment of millions 
of English capital in the sister kingdom, which must now be con- 
sidered as so many millions driven away, or diverted, from those 
channels of industry and improvement, which might have beea 
so beneficially opened or enlarged. 

I am one of those who should unquestionably have rejoiced, if 
the measure of Catholic Emancipation had been granted, at the 
time of voting the Union of the two countries. But whatever 
had, subsequently to that measure, been the misfortunes and the 
troubles of Ireland, it cannot be denied, that she has, in the same 
period, been going on increasing in wealth, in power, and in in- 
telligence. In fact, there are a great many more existing cir- 
cumstances than there were five-and-twenty years ago, to enable 
Ireland to receive the boon which she now claims, with advan- 
tage to herself; and the danger of withholding that boon, on the 
other hand, is proportionably increased, compared with what it 
was five-and-twenty years ago.] 

And, what are the dangers of admission? My right honour- 
able friend, the Secretary of State for the Home Department, has 
told us, that our ancestors, contemplating a speculative danger, 
thought it right to provide against it, even for their remotest pos- 
terity. Now, Sir, I do beg of the House, to weigh the proba- 
bilities of this speculative danger against the near and palpable 
and positive danger which now exists. I do intreat of them to 
ask themselves whether, if they relieve themselves from this last 
and urgent danger, they necessarily, or even probably, bring upon 
themselves the risk of that distant and speculative one, which is 
so much dreaded — whether, if so improbable an evil should 
occur, the remedy against it would not at all times be in our own 
hands? The Catholics now are supplicants for justice, and for 
an equal participation of civil rights with their fellow-subjects. 
It is this position which makes ^hem formidable. Concede to 
them that participation, and the danger ceases. I believe it 
would cease altogether; but admitting, for argument's sake, that 
the constant object of Catholic ambition is the" subversion of our 
Protestant government, I think the most prejudiced Protestant 
nriust admit, that it would be a danger of a different description. 
The Catholic laity and nobility, who now supplicate to be admit- 



420 ROMAN CATHOLIC RELIEF BILL. 

ted to the benefits of the British constitution, backed by all the 
moral and political influence which upholds their claims, must 
then, in order to create any danger, become aggressors against 
those very institutions, upon which depends the existence of those 
very benefits, which they are so anxious to share. By what 
influence, moral or political, would they then be supported ? By 
none. I believe there would be no risk of such an aggression ; 
but, assuming it to be possible — that is, assuming men to be despe- 
rately foolish, as well as desperately wicked, I say that the risk 
would be contemptible — contemptible in proportion as the attempt 
was wicked and foolish — compared to the dangers to which we 
are now exposed. 

My right honourable friend, the strength as well as the sin- 
cerity of whose arguments upon this question have so often 
called for the applause of all parties in this House, is not one of 
those who object to every concession to the Catholics. He does 
not make common cause with those who think that every thing 
which is now withheld ought for ever to be withheld. On the 
contrary — and it is the strongest evidence, if any were wanted 
beyond his own personal character, of his sincerity — he has told 
us, that, with some doubts as to the Bench, he limits his objec- 
tions to seats in the two Houses of Parliament, and the Privy 
Council. With respect to the latter, my right honourable friend 
appears to have forgotten that it rests with the Crown to bestow 
such a mark of distinction, and that, moreover, it is scarcely pos- 
sible for any individual to attain to it but through the channel of 
Parliament. 

But then there may arise a man in Parliament, of such tran- 
scendant talents, of such exalted excellence of character, with 
such a following in this House, as to give him an ascendency in 
the councils of Parliament and of the country ! It cannot be de- 
nied that such an occurrence is barely possible. But, with how 
many bare possibilities must it be coupled and connected, before 
the presence of such an individual would lead to danger ! He 
must be a bigot, his mind debased and subdued by the worst doc- 
trines of the Roman church — a hypocrite of the most profound 
dissimulation, such as would enable him to blind the House, and 
to escape the keen vigilance of the Press, and the jealous scrutiny 
of the other free institutions of the country. His ambition must 
be such as never actuated a statesman in a popular assembly — 
his love of fame, still more extraordinary than his ambition. He 
must, in short, possess such a combination of qualities, as have 
never been united in any individual who has in any times en- 
deavoured to obtain authority through the medium of a popular 
assembly. Yet, if there be such a man, I would say, let him 
come into this House. And then. Sir, let his talents, his eloquence, 



ROMAN CATHOLIC RELIEF BILL. 431 

his genius, be what they may, we have had standards, we still 
have standards in this House, by which this creature of my right 
honourable friend's ingenuity may be measured, and m<jdelled. 
Let him come here, and his ambition will be taught to move in 
its legitimate sphere. Here, its progress can be watched, its 
course calculated, its movements foreseen, its orbit ascertained. 
But, exclude his ambition, banish it from its natural sphere, it be- 
comes an eccentric and blazing comet, disappearing at intervals, 
but, in its irregular and desultory movements, returning again to 
spread alarm, and carry desolation in its course. 

[I am sorry to trespass so long upon the time and patience of 
the House, but I cannot conclude without saying a few words 
more, with regard to the Societies which have been suppressed 
in Ireland, or without warning honourable gentlemen, — and I 
must be permitted to repeat that warning again and again — that 
if they do not at once proceed to do away with these unjust 
restrictions, and to repress these childish and unfounded preju- 
dices, they will, over and over again, have to deal with assem- 
blies in that kingdom of as formidable a description as the late 
Catholic Associations.] You may put down one association, but 
the like evil will arise again in some other shape, directed to the 
same ends, pregnant with the same dangers, putting forth the 
same pretensions, exercising the same power over the Catholic 
population, giving birth to the same angry passions, fostering the 
same violent factions, which, in their struggles, have so often 
rendered the laws inetficient, the Government powerless, and the 
people miserable. 

I have only one word to say upon the subject of the two 
Wings,* as they have been called, to this Bill ; which has been 
rendered the n)ore necessary, by what fell from the honourable 
member for Durham,f last night. The honourable member stated, 
that he considered those two measures as having originated with 
those to whom the House had devolved the task of bringing in 
the present Bill, and had been the result of meetings and discus- 
sions, which they had held for that purpose. Now, Sir, I only 
think it necessary to state, that neither my right honourable 
friend,J (whose absence on such an occasion as this, and more 
especially on account of its cause, the House must deeply re- 
gret), nor myself were present at any of those meetings or 
discussions — that we were no parties to the bringing forward 
those measures; and I believe I may positively state, that the 



* The Elective Franchise for Ireland Bill and the Resolution respecting a 
provision for the Roman Catholic clergy of Ireland. 

f Mr. Ijambton, the present Lord Durham. { Mr. Canning. 

36 



422 ROMAN CATHOLIC RELIEF BILL. 

notice given by my honourable friend, the member for Stafford- 
shire,* and by the noble lord,f was the first intimation which he 
had of their intentions. He was no party to their plans, and had 
no cognizance of them. [For my own part, I believe that both 
measures were intended to aid and accelerate the great measure 
of Catholic emancipation. As to the Bill for disfranchising the 
forty-shilling freeholders of Ireland, I cannot quite say that I 
altogether approve of its principle. In voting for the other, I 
intended to give it my sanction only up to this point and to this 
extent — that as this House holds the public purse, and is bound 
to provide for the expenses of the public service, so I should hold 
it to be, to provide for the effectual operation and results of a 
measure which, by granting Catholic emancipation, will be cal- 
culated to produce such incalculable benefits to the community, 
over which the parties in question may fairly be supposed to 
exercise so extensive an influence. But when my right honour- 
able friend, the Secretary of State for the Home Department, 
talked about the making provision for a regular establishment, — 
for archbishops, bishops, and an inferior clergy, — as a concomi- 
tant to the bill for Roman Catholic Emancipation, I beg to say 
that I stand pledged to no such provisions whatever. I think, 
indeed, that it will require much previous inquiry and considera- 
tion, before we can proceed to make any provision for the 
Catholic clergy by law. And I should be unwilling — as far as 
I can judge now upon a subject so complicated and difficult, and 
mixed up with many other considerations that will be fully gone 
into before any definitive plan is acted upon — to place that pro- 
vision, whatever it may be, beyond the control of Government ; 
in the same manner as was observed towards the Protestant dis- 
senters, and other separatists from the church of England. To 
the Bill now before the House, I give my cordial support.] 

The House divided : For the third reading of the Bill, 278. Against it, 227. 
Majority, 51. 

* Mr. Littleton. f Lord Francis Leveson Gower. 



( 423 ) 



BANK CHARTER AND PROMISSORY NOTES 
ACTS. 

FEBRUARY 10th, 1826. 

The House having resolved itself into a committee of the whole House, 
on the Bank Charter and Promissory Notes Acts, the Chancellor of the Ex- 
chequer took a comprehensive view of the advantages which would result to 
the Public in general, as well as to the Bankers themselves, from the calling 
in of the small notes, and moved, " That all Promissory Notes payable to 
bearer on demand, issued by licensed Bankers in England, or by the Bank of 
England, for any sum less than bl., bearing a date previous to the 5th of 
February 1826, or which may have been stamped previously to that day, shall 
and may continue to be issued, re-issued, and circulated, until the 5th day of 
April 1829, and no longer." The right honourable gentleman stated, that it 
was also intended to allow an extension of the present limited number of 
partners in Banking firms. Mr. Baring characterised the proposed measures 
as being mere milk and water, and by no means adequate to the evils to be 
subdued. He also maintained, that the Bank was cramped by its connection 
with the Government, and its means rendered unavailable, to their fair extent. 
After Lord Folkestone and Captain Maberly had followed on the same side, 

Mr. HusKissoN said, that although he could not concur with all 
that had fallen from the honourable captain who spoke last, as to 
the causes of the recent events, he was bound to acknowledge, 
that he had made a very clear and luminous statement on the 
subject. The noble lord opposite, and his honourable friend, the 
member for Taunton, had, in the course of their addresses to the 
House, made some observations which would afford him an op- 
portunity of explaining a point which appeared to be much mis- 
understood. His honourable friend, the member for Taunton, had 
indulged in some animadversions — harsh and unsupported — on 
what he was pleased to call the insensibility of the First Lord of 
the Treasury, and of his right honourable friend, the Chancellor 
of the Exchequer, in respect to the present distresses of the 
country. He was not sure, indeed, whether his honourable friend 
had not included the whole of the members of Government in his 
censure. It was not necessary for him to vindicate his noble 
friend at the head of the Treasury, from the imputation of a want 
of feeling, either for the difficulties of the country, or the distresses 
of individuals. He was sure that his noble friend must be aware 



424 BANK CHARTER— PROMISSORY NOTES. 

of the extent of suffering, from the daily intercourse which he had 
with those who were most competent to inform him of the state 
of affairs in the city. 

Both the noble lord and his honourable friend had commented 
very strongly on a passage in the Correspondence between Govern- 
ment and the Bank of England, without distinctly understanding, 
as it appeared to liim, the way in which it applied. The passage 
to which he alluded, was that commencing with the words, " the 
panic in the money-market having subsided," &c. Now, he need 
not ask his honourable friend, who, he believed, was in London 
about the middle of December, and was a witness to what was 
then passing, whether there did not exist at that time, for two or 
three days, such a state of affairs in the money-market, such a 
complete suspension of all confidence, as, contradistinguished from 
commercial distress, rendered it impossible to procure money 
upon even the most unobjectionable security? He appealed to 
every gentleman present connected with the city, whether it was 
not a fact, that, during forty-eight hours, it was impossible to 
convert into money, to any extent at least, the best securities of 
the Government? Persons could not sell Exchequer bills — they 
could not sell Bank stock — they could not sell East-India stock — 
they could not sell public securities on the funded debt of the 
country. That difficulty did not arise from any rational idea of 
the insolvency of the Government, or of the Bank, or of the other 
great corporate body, but from that panic to which his right 
honourable friend, the Chancellor of the Exchequer, and the First 
Lord of the Treasury alluded in the passage which had been 
referred to, as having existed, and as being removed. Was the 
statement not true, then, that the panic — that state of things which 
he had just described — had been removed? No one now heard 
of two or three London bankers stopping every morning. It was 
no longer impossible to convert all public securities into money. 
The operations of the Royal Exchange had resumed their ordi- 
nary course. Did Lord Liverpool suppose that, when the panic 
in the money-market was over, the commercial transactions of 
the country 'would not be affected ? No such thing ! In the con- 
versations which he had had with Lord Liverpool, his noble friend 
had stated, that the convulsion in the money-market must inevita- 
bly derange the transactions of commerce, and involve them in 
difficulties. 

The honourable member who last addressed the House seemed 
to be aware of the distinction which existed between the opera- 
tions of the money-market, and those of commerce. If the diffi- 
culties which existed in the money-market a short time since had 
continued only eight-and-forty hours longer, he sincerely believed 
that the effect would have been to put a stop to all dealings 



BANK CHARTER— PROMISSORY NOTES. 425 

between man and man, except by \vay of barter. It had been 
very truly observed, that the Bank, by its prompt and etiicacious 
assistance, put an end to the panic, and averted the ruin which 
threatened all the banking establishments in London, and through 
them the banking establishments and moneyed men all over the 
country; and he firmly believed that, in saving others, it had 
actually saved itself. The conduct of tlie Bank had been most 
praiseworthy. He would take upon himself to say, that the Bank 
directors, throughout their prompt, efficacious, and public-spirited 
conduct, had the countenance, advice, and particular recom- 
mendation of the First Lord of the Treasury and of his right 
honourable friend to assist them. Therefore he had a right to 
say, that his colleagues, in their Communication to the Bank, 
alluded to the state of the money-market only. It should be re- 
collected, that his colleagues were addressing persons with whom 
they had been in constant communication from the commence- 
ment of the panic. They knew the extent of the distress which 
existed in the commercial interest, but they did not allude to it, 
because it was not immediately connected with that part of the 
subject to which they were directing the attention of the Bank. 

His honourable friend, the member for Taunton, had inferred 
from what appeared in the Correspondence, that the Government 
was ignorant of what was passing in Scotland. Could it for a 
moment be supposed, that his noble colleague and his right 
honourable friend were so ignorant of the state of the country, 
as not to know that the greatest commercial distress at present 
existed in Scotland, and that the Scotch bankers, by their mode 
of affording discounts, were aggravating that distress ? It was, 
however, quite consistent with that fact, that the system of Scotch 
banking afforded greater securities than the English system ; and 
therefore it was desirable to introduce the former into this 
country. 

He did not know whether the noble lord opposite intended to 
subject the whole of the members of the Government to the charge 
of insensibility to the distresses of the country ; but he could assure 
the noble lord, that there was no part of his speech in which he 
so cordially and entirely concurred, as that in which he stated, 
that a system of currency which produced great and violent fluc- 
tuations in the price of commodities, was one which, however it 
might aflect the opulent merchant or the man of landed property, 
was deeply to be deplored, on account of the manner in which it 
operated to aggravate the distresses of the labouring classes. 
That was the opinion which he had uniformly maintained. It 
would be found recorded in the Report of the Bullion Committee 
of 1810, and it had been stated by him, on every occasion when 
he had been called upon to deliver his sentiments on the subject 
30* 3D 



426 BANK CHARTER— PROMISSORY NOTES. 

There was no part of the system of the Currency at which he 
looked with greater anxiety, than the manner in which it preju- 
diced the interests of the labourer, and particularly those employ- 
ed in agriculture. 

His honourable friend, the member for Taunton, had observed, 
that he had never heard a speech so calculated to create disap- 
pointment — so inadequate to the occasion — as that of his right 
honourable friend, the Chancellor of the Exchequer. His honour- 
able friend had followed up that remark by a dissertation — a very 
able one certainly, to which he had listened with great attention, 
and, in some parts, with great satisfaction — on the general 
system of banking in the abstract. His honourable friend then 
entered upon a statement of the dilficulties under which he sup- 
posed the Bank of England to labour, on account of the advances 
on Exchequer bills ; and other advances, more or less of a per- 
manent nature, made by it to Government. As the question was 
one of fact, it was material that it should be set right. His 
honourable friend was considered a great authority ; and a state- 
ment going forth from him was Ukely to produce a considerable 
effect. He wished, therefore, that the matter should be fairly 
stated. His honourable friend had stated the advances made by 
the Bank on account of the half-pay annuity at eight millions, 
forgetting that considerable sums were paid by Government to 
the Bank, twice a year, on account of that transaction ; which, 
if deducted, would reduce the amount advanced by the Bank to 
5,400,000/. He was not then going to discuss the prudence of 
that arrangement: he was only desirous that the matter should 
be correctly understood ; because it was a little hard that his 
honourable friend, who had himself contracted for loans with 
Government, should endeavour to throw on Government the 
odium of having imposed on the Bank in the arrangement. The 
arrangement was a voluntary one on the part of the Bank : it 
was, in fact, a description of loan. The Bank, perhaps, had not 
pursued precisely the same course as his honourable friend would 
have adopted, under similar circumstances. He, perhaps, would 
have doled out the loan piece by piece ; selling it to the public, 
when he saw an opportunity of doing so to advantage. With 
that, however, he had nothing to do. The Bank were the best 
judges of their own interests. He could take upon himself to say, 
and no Bank director could contradict him, that there was nothing 
done, on the part of the Government, to prevent the Bank from 
disposing of the contract in any way they might think proper, at 
any period. He was sure that his honourable friend would not 
wish, particularly at the present moment, when he must be so 
fully aware of the danger of misrepresentation, to state any thing 
but the fact. He must say, however, that in his statement of the 



BANK CHARTER— PROMISSORY NOTES. 437 

manner in which the capital of the Bank was locked up by its 
advances to Government, his honourable friend was not correct. 
His honourable friend said, that the whole of the capital of the 
Bank was lent to the Government. If he meant, that the whole 
of the capital which the Bank possessed at the period of its foun- 
dation was lent to Government, as the price paid for their char- 
ter, he could not dispute the truth of that proposition ; but his 
honourable friend ought to distinguish between that capital, and 
that which had been accruing to the Bank, in consequence of 
their profits, and with which they were at liberty to deal as they 
pleased. His honourable friend stated, that the Bank were in the 
habit of issuing seven millions upon Exchequer-bills at one time, 
and nine millions at another, and that those advances swallowed 
up all their capital, and left them without any means at their dis- 
posal. In the first place, did any one suppose that the seven 
millions which constituted the charge on the consolidated fund, 
became all demandable on one and the same day 1 The money 
was drawn out in separate portions at different periods. At the 
same time, the accruing receipts of the new quarter were daily 
paid into the Bank ; so that, after all, the alarming statement made 
by his honourable friend, respecting deficiency bills (which he 
was surprised that he should have put forth at a period of such 
excitement), amounted to nothing more than this — that the Bank 
w^as in the habit of paying daily to, and receiving daily from, the 
Government, in the same way as as a private banker w^ould deal 
with his customer. Instead of the Bank advancing twenty-four 
millions to Government, as his honourable friend had stated, they 
advanced only the sum he had mentioned on account of the half 
pay (which they might get rid of if they thought proper), and 
about six millions on Exchequer bills; for with respect to the 
deficiency bills, he considered it no advance at all. 

He was not a little surprised at another part of his honourable 
friend's speech. His honourable friend stated, that at an early 
period after the conclusion of the war, the market which existed 
on the Continent for our manufactures afforded a favourable 
opportunity for obtaining a supply of gold, which would have 
enabled Government to have got rid of the one and two pound 
notes. Did his honourable friend recollect the state of distress in 
which the continent was placed by the operation of the tremen- 
dous war, of which it had been the theatre for a quarter of a 
century? The continent had not then the means of paying for 
our manufactures. In fact, there was, at the present moment, a 
much greater export of manufactures than at the period to which 
his honourable friend had alluded. Talk of the principles of 
trade ! — he was surprised to hear his honourable friend argue, 
that in order to obtain a supply of bullion, it was necessary that 



428 BANK CAARTER— PROMISSORY NOTES. 

the goods exported should be paid for directly in metallic cur- 
rency. The quantity of exports last year was greater than in 
any previous year in the history of the country. Their total value 
was greater than in any previous year. What signified it to him, 
whether those exports went to Cuba or the United States of North 
America, or the New States of South America. Did not his 
honourable friend know how bills sometimes travelled about 
through the world ? Why, it had come under his own know- 
ledge, that bills given in payment for goods exported, had travelled 
from South America to India, and had ultimately been returned 
to this country in the shape of bullion. To talk, then, of our 
having been shut out from the continent, and having lost the 
opportunity of obtaining bullion, shortly after the peace, was a 
misrepresentation of facts. The acquirement of bullion depended 
on our exports. 

The honourable member who spoke last had imputed to his 
right honourable friend, that he had not gone into the real cause 
of the distress of the country. The real cause had been stated by 
his right honourable friend. It was a spirit of speculation and 
overtrading. He agreed with the honourable member in think- 
ing, that the immediate cause of those distresses, and the feverish 
state in which the country had been recently placed, was over- 
trading; and the anxiety of his Majesty's ministers was, not only 
to relieve the country at present, but to take such steps as would 
prevent the recurrence of those distresses — distresses which went 
to the extent of producing a stagnation and want of confidence 
in our trade, to a degree unparalleled in the history of this country, 
— distresses, which rendered unsaleable and inconvertible into 
money, all the usual articles of trade and commerce. 

Let the House but consider for a moment what had been the 
immediate effect of this overtrading. It produced a rise in prices, 
so rapid that it had never been equalled. And what was the con- 
sequence? Why, a fall as rapid and as unequalled as the rise had 
been. If he were asked, to give documentary proof of the causes 
which led to those reverses in our commercial transactions, he 
should beg leave to read an extract or two, pledging himself that 
they should be much shorter than those with which the honour- 
able member, who had preceded him, had favoured the House. 
Mercantile and trading men were, of course, aware that there 
was published, twice a week, in London, an account of the Price 
Current of the different articles on sale in the city ; and to this 
very useful publication the editor was in the habit of giving, at 
the end of the year, a summary of the rise and fall of prices, add- 
ing his own opinions of the manner in which the markets had been 
conducted during that period. The paragraph which he was 
about to read from that paper had reference to the year 1825. 



BANK CHARTER— PROMISSORY NOTES. 420 

The editor, after some comments on the state of the markets, 
went on to say, that such was the mania for speculation, which 
in March and April had taken hold of persons of all classes — not 
confining itself to speculators, but extending to steady merchants 
and traders, — that even on the article of nutmegs the price rose 
from 2^. 6d. to 12s. 6d. per pound, in the space of one month. 
He added, that the speculation on other spices had the effect of 
producing a corresponding rise in their prices. 

But the mania was not confined to these articles. In cotton, 
cof!ee, sugar, and tallow, the rage for speculation was equally 
great ; and merchants, traders, shopkeepers, clerks, apprentices, 
and persons of all conditions, partook equally of the phrenzy of 
vying with each other in their endeavours to secure a monopoly 
in each different article ; so that the prices were raised higher 
than could ever have been expected, and higher certainly, than 
they could long continue. And this state of things, be it observed, 
was not included in the number of those wild, insane, and Bed- 
lamite schemes, with which the market had been inundated ; but 
had its rise amongst those who were considered the sober, steady 
merchants and traders of the metropolis. These speculations 
attached themselves to every staple commodity of our imports for 
the purposes of manufacture, as well as to the foreign articles of 
our consumption — cotton, wool, timber, wine, tobacco. In fact, 
every article which it was necessary to draw from foreign coun- 
tries, became the object of this species of speculation. 

And when, he would ask, did all this take place? It took place 
at a period when the exchanges were against this country, and 
when gold was necessarily going out of it! For he said again — 
and he was anxious to submit his statement upon this point to 
any set of practical men — that an unfavourable state of the ex- 
changes had the effect of encouraging an increase of our exports 
to, while it checked our imports from, foreign countries. Well, 
then ! if any set of practical men saw that, at a period hke this, 
when our coin was itself finding its way out of the country, every 
corner of Asia and America was ransacked for cotton wool, and 
other articles of speculation ; and if, at such a period, money was 
so plentiful in the country as to be hawked about, and offered at 
a depreciated rate of interest, was it not a convincing proof, that 
there was something wrong in the state of our currency ? And if 
so, he would ask any sober man — certainly, there were not many 
sober in the city, at the period to which he alluded — but he called 
upon any sober man to say, to what such a state of things, if 
unchecked, must come at last? 

With respect to the state of the Currency, there had, unfor- 
tunately, been much difference of opinion. But the Bank felt 
called upon to provide for its own safety, by narrowing its issues. 



430 BANK CHARTER— PROMISSORY NOTES. 

And what was the result? The spirit of speculation was checked ; 
and, as a necessary result, those country banks which had been 
most rash and immoderate in aiding those speculations, by ad- 
vances, were ruined. But the evil did not stop here ; for the ruin 
of a few bad and unstable banks involved in difficulties many 
establishments of a similar nature, which were otherwise placed 
upon the most stable footing. A panic was spread throughout 
the country. The country banks, amounting to seven or eight 
hundred, applied to the Bank of England as their only reservoir; 
so that she was assailed upon every side. Seven or eight hundred 
drains were at once opened through her — gold was to flow from 
her into the country. The Bank of England was, in consequence, 
placed in a state of the greatest difficulty and embarrassment. 

Now, he would ask, whether this was a situation in which the 
country banks ought to be allowed to stand? — whether it was 
safe or convenient that they should remain upon such a footing? 
He maintained that it was not. It was his opinion — an opinion 
not hastily formed, but the result of long and anxious observation 
— that a permanent state of cash payments, and a circulation of 
one and two pound notes, could not co-exist. He would put his 
argument into the form of a single proposition — If there were, in 
any country, a paper currency of the same denomination as coin, 
the paper and the coin could not circulate together : the paper 
would drive out the coin. Let crown notes be made, and we 
should never seen crown pieces : make half-crown notes, and a 
half-crown would not remain in circulation: allow one-pound 
notes to circulate, and we should never see a sovereign. It was 
very well known, indeed, that in 1821 and 1822, when the Bank 
of England felt a laudable anxiety to establish a gold circulation, 
and had actually endeavoured to saturate the country with gold, 
such was the indifterence for the precious metal, that the parcels 
of gold coin, which they sent down by one mail, were returned 
by another. 

If this, then, were a right and just description, to what inference 
did it lead? He did not speak it to the disparagement of the coun- 
try bankers, when he said, that they had endeavoured, and very 
naturally, to put out as much of their paper as they could. They 
might have had gold by them to some extent ; but if cautious and 
prudent — and he was sorry to say that some of them had shown 
themselves not to be so, although he believed that the country 
banks in general were managed with a good deal of prudence 
and discretion — but if prudent and cautious, they always placed 
their chief reliance on the Bank of England. And not only did 
the seven or eight hundred provincial banks of England thus rely 
on it, but even the banks of Scotland, and the national bank of 
Ireland, looked to it as their security. 



BANK CHARTER— PROMISSORY NOTES. 43 1 

He would ask, then, any reasonable person, if it was fair or 
just, that the Bank of England sliould be expected to provide 
gold for those various applicants, no matter under what circum- 
stances they should seek for it — no matter whether the exchanges 
were favourable or unfavourable to this country ? 80 long, in- 
deed, as the national bank had the advantage of having an ex- 
clusive trade, perhaps something in the way of a sacrifice might 
be reasonably expected from it ; but after having, in the most dis- 
interested manner, surrendered a part of its monopoly, in which 
it was greatly interested, the Bank naturally expected to be re- 
lieved from a liability which tended greatly to embarrass, if not 
to injure it. It was, under any circumstances, unnatural to re- 
quire that the Bank of England should be the means of protect- 
ing and securing all the country banks; which, if persevered in, 
might one day have the eflect of involving the establishment in 
serious difficulties. Why, he asked, should the Bank of England 
be obliged to insure all the other banks in the country? Why 
not, on the conti'ary, oblige each country bank to insure itself, by 
having in its possession, or at its command, a certain portion of 
coin of the realm, to answer the demand which might be made 
upon it, in cases of emergency? 

He had already spoken of the difficulties which had arisen 
from overtrading. The honourable member for Taunton* had 
said, indeed, that we must look to nothing else for the cause of 
those difficulties. Now, he could not agree to this. He would 
look to much more. Last session, when the subject of the corn 
laws was under discussion, he had stated, that the gold was going 
abroad ; that the foreign exchanges were becoming unfavourable 
to us; that the Bank of England ought to look to it; and he had 
adverted to what might be the effects of an unfavourable harvest. 
The honourable member had spoken of the harvest as a favour- 
able one. He would ask, then, what must be the nature of a 
system, which, with a favourable harvest, and at a period of pro- 
found peace, was capable of producing such pain and distress as 
had lately been experienced ? 

The House had gone far in their endeavours to restore a 
metallic currency to the country ; and he would ask, whether 
they were prepared to hazard the disgrace of stopping short in 
their career, by continuing the circulation of the one and two- 
pound notes? He trusted that the measures, brought forward by 
his right honourable friend, would be felt to be deserving of the 
support of those gentlemen who were not in the habit of voting 
with his Majesty's ministers. This was a question of the greatest 
magnitude, and of vital importance to the country ; and his right 

* Mr. Baring. 



432 BANK CHARTER— PROMISSORY NOTES. 

honourable friend was well warranted in saying, that in the event 
of its being negatived, he should not envy the responsibility of 
the individual who would have to manage the finances of the 
country, while the state of the currency was left to the chapter 
of accidents. 

One of the great evils which they were called upon to correct 
was the excessive issue of paper. This had been productive of 
the greatest distress. It had been the destruction of confidence 
between all classes of society. It had caused the ruin of thou- 
sands of innocent individuals. It had given rise to fluctuations 
in our currency, which were sometimes in favour of the debtor, 
and sometimes of the creditor ; but which frequently involved the 
one and the other in the deepest distress. Nothing but disgrace 
and danger could attend a deviation from those correct principles 
of currency, which Parliament had solemnly recognized. 

He was surprised to hear his honourable friend, the member 
for Taunton, assert that if this measure was carried, it would in- 
volve the whole of the agricultural interest in distress, equal to 
that which it had experienced at a former period. If he had not 
been aware that his honourable friend was in England in the 
months of November and December last, he should have thought, 
from what he had said, that he was entirely ignorant of recent 
events. He would ask the honourable member, whether he had 
passed a town or a district, in which a bank had not been swept 
away? He would ask him, whether he had not witnessed the 
effects produced, not only on the shop-keepers and traders, but 
on every class of farmers, by such failures? With whom did the 
farmers transact their business but with the country bankers? 
And how many gentlemen had been obliged to suspend the col- 
lection of their rents, in consequence of the losses sustained by' 
their tenants, in the deposits which they had made in the hands 
of the country bankers — losses which were felt, not only in cities 
and towns, but even in villages; where the labourers were fre- 
quently paid, not daily or weekly, but monthly, in one-pound 
notes of the country bankers? What, then, must be the over- 
whelming misery of those persons who were visited by the sud- 
den privation of the means of supplying their hourly wants and 
necessities? This distress had overtaken the farmer and labourer, 
but in a still greater degree the manufacturer and the artizan. 

And here he could not but advert to an expression used by the 
noble lord opposite, that the proposed measure would have the 
effect of bringing back again the agricultural distress which 
existed previous to 1822. Need he tell the noble lord, or his 
honourable friend, that there was a necessary connection between 
those who consumed and those who supplied agricultural pro- 
duce ? Was it necessary that he should point out the fact, that 



BANK CHARTER— PROMISSORY NOTES. 433 

a fall in the demand for the labour of manufacturers must neces- 
sarily produce a decrease of consunipticjn ; and that one must, of 
necessity, regulate the other ? What was it that occasioned the 
revival of the agricultural interests in 1822? He maintained that 
it arose principally from the revival of the manufacturing interests 
and from the employment of thousands, who had, lor a consider- 
able time, been deprived of an opportunity of supporting them- 
selves by their labour. The increased means with which they 
were furnished necessarily brought about an increase of consump- 
tion ; and looking to the opposite side of this argument, he was 
convinced, that the manufacturing distress which was now so 
generally felt, must have the effect of diminishing the demand for 
the agricultural produce of the country'. It was the natural 
course of things that, in such a fluctuating state of our currency, 
all classes of society must, in their turn, be alTected by it; and, 
therefore, the sooner we got rid of that fluctuation, and returned 
to a sound, healthy, and permanent circulating medium, the better 
would it be for the community at large. 

If they wished for a proof of the value of a steady, unchange- 
able currency, they had it in the example of France. That 
country had been twice invaded: twice had her capital been 
taken possession of; and she had been compelled, in 1816 and 
1817, to pay large sums to foreign countries for corn. But she 
had a steady metallic currency; and however such visitations 
might have affected the great — however the extensive contractor 
might have been injured or ruined — the great body of the popula- 
tion remained unmolested. The storm which uprooted the forest 
tree, had passed over without injuring the humble reed ; and this 
was mainly to be attributed to the permanent footing upon which 
the Currency of the country had been placed. 

If the plan of his right honourable friend was carried into exe- 
cution, he was satisfied it would have the effect of making the 
country banker as sensitive on the subject of the exchanges, and 
as watchful of any unfavourable turn which might take place in 
them, as the Bank of England now was. He would carefully 
watch the circumstances which were calculated to bring gold 
into, or send it out of, the country ; and this caution being timely 
impressed upon him, the danger would, in a measure, be passed. 
There would then be no fear of any agitation or convulsion in the 
country, as the interest of every banker would compel him to 
provide himself for any coming emergency : in other words, every 
country banker would feel an equal interest with the Bank of 
England, in watching the state of the Currency, and guarding 
against its fluctuations. 

If, then, it was necessary, for the best interests of the country, 
that the Currency should be estabhshed on a sound and solid 
37 3E 



434 BANK CHARTER— PROMISSORY NOTES. 

foundation, and that the country banks should be prevented from 
drawing the metaUic currency out of the l^ingdom, by the issue 
of these small notes, the next question was — whether this was a 
proper time for carrying the measure into execution t But before 
he touched upon this, perhaps it would be proper that he should 
make one preliminary observation respecting the country banks. 
He was far from being hostile to these banks. On the contrary, 
he thought they would be of great service to the country, provided 
they were placed under proper regulations. He wished to save 
these banks themselves from the consequences of their own pro- 
ceedings — from the liability of each to be ruined by the failure 
of the others. But, to effect this, they must- be prevented from 
issuing paper, as low as the highest denomination of the metallic 
currency of the country. They must not be permitted to issue 
their one-pound notes — corresponding with the sovereign — the 
highest denomination of metallic currency. To give them the 
privilege of making such issues was, in fact, to permit them to 
assume the powers of the prerogative. Let them continue to issue 
paper, and to extend and act upon their credit ; but let them not 
issue their small notes, and thereby trench upon the prerogative. 

The question then was — Is the present the fit time to provide, 
by law, for the gradual and progressive withdrawal of these small 
notes ? Some gentlemen had contended, that this was not the fit 
period. Now he, on the contrary, maintained, that this was the 
most proper time, when so much of this currency was actually 
afloat, and the bankers were smarting under the consequences of 
their over-issues. Was it when a drinker of ardent spirits was 
intoxicated, that you could persuade him to give over that detesta- 
ble habit ? No ! but when he was in his sober senses, and suffei*- 
ing under the effects of his previous intemperance. The issue of 
these notes had been already greatly curtailed, by the failure of 
a hundred country banks, and from other causes. The country 
banks had, at this time, a large stock of gold in their hands, 
drawn from the bank of England. They had found it necessary, 
for their own safety, to lay in stores both of gold and Bank of 
England notes. Now, therefore, was the most convenient time 
for providing, by law, for the gradual extinction of this small- 
note circulation. If the House waited until the present difficulties 
were pased, they would soon find that those notes, which were at 
present withdrawn, would speedily be re-issued. The bankers 
had actually got the gold in their coflTers. It was in the country; 
and this was the moment to provide that it should not again be 
so readily exported. 

The House should also bear in mind the difficulties they would 
have to encounter from these country banks, in any attempts to 
intermeddle with their notes and profits, in case the issuing of 



BANK CHARTER— PROMISSORY NOTES. 435 

these small notes were, to any considerable extent, resumed. If 
they now postponed the commencement of this salutary measure, 
would any honourable gentleman assure him, that it would ever 
be begun ? A more favourable opportunity for commencing the 
good work than the present they could not expect. If they allow- 
ed it to escape, and these notes were again extensively circulat- 
ed, it would be said — why did you not resort to this measure 
when the issues of these notes were so greatly curtailed 1 — If the 
adoption of measures for placing the Currency upon a sound and 
solid foundation were to be resisted by such arguments as he had 
heard that evening, there was an end of all hopes of ever securing 
a proper coinage and standard of value. 

With respect to the extension of the number of partners in 
country banks, when these banks were limited to so small a 
number as six, they were naturally led, by private views of inter- 
est, to depart from the just principles of banking. But if a firm 
consisted of, suppose two hundred partners, and their business 
was controlled by directors, and they were tied down by rules 
which would not admit of these ruinous speculations — he did then 
think it would be a great improvement, if chartered banks were 
established, with only a limited liability. It would, no doubt, in- 
duce many persons of great credit and fortune, to invest their 
money in shares of such banks. But the Bank of England ob- 
jected to the extension of this limited liability, and had stipulated, 
that the banks of Scotland and Ireland should not possess this 
privilege. 

His honourable friend, the member for Taunton, had recom- 
mended the giving to England a metallic currency, on a more 
extensive basis than could be obtained by the recall of the one 
and two-pound notes. He agreed with his honourable friend, that 
it would be desirable that the currency should be rested on a firm 
and secure basis. For himself, he was bound to confess, that he 
entirely differed from his late friend, Mr. Ricardo, as to the basis 
upon which the currency of the country ought safely and properly 
to rest; and he did believe that if that gentleman, ingenious as 
he was, had been the sole director of the Bank of England, the 
country would, before this, have witnessed the stoppage of that 
establishment. He had paid much attention to the subject of 
currency generally, and had bestowed some labour upon it ; and 
he did think that Mr. Ricardo's view of the question had been a 
wrong one ; and, while he was upon the subject, he might as well 
at once observe, that he should be glad to pursue, and would 
pursue, some further enquiry — perhaps before the Board over 
which he had the honour to preside — into the best mode of im- 
proving the suggestion thrown out a few nights since by the 
honourable member for Taunton; and of introducing, in some 



436 BANK CHARTER— PROMISSORY NOTES. 

shape or other, silver as a legal tender, so as to give an additional 
security to the country — as far as human prudence and foresight 
could give security — against its being ever again placed in the 
dangerous predicament of even a temporary suspension of cash 
payments. 

He had very little more to address to the House ; but upon one 
point a few words ought to be said in his own justification, and 
in justification of those with whom he had acted. An honourable 
member had said, in rather sweeping terms, that for much of the 
late wild speculation which had been carrying on throughout the 
country, ministers were chiefly to blame. Now, the House would 
recollect when it was that the great bulk erf these speculations 
had first commenced. It was in the spring of last year. Standing 
where he did, to refer to what had been said by Lord Liver- 
.pool in another place, would be contrary to order ; but he had 
taken the trouble to refresh his memory as to the precise terms 
of what he had said himself. In February last — in the very com- 
mencement of those speculations — he had used this particular 
expression in speaking of them — " that the lottery was a safe ad- 
venture, compared with the mass of those in which persons were 
then engaging." Again, in the month of March, speaking of the 
speculations, he had distinctly declared it to be his opinion, that 
those who engaged in them would find themselves disappointed. 
Unfortunately, those to whom this advice had been addressed had 
disregarded all warning. They had, too many of them, rushed, 
in contempt of all caution, on to their own undoing and destruc- 
tion. But, although it would be irregular in him to refer to the 
precise terms in which Lord Liverpool had spoken upon the sub- 
ject of those unfortunate speculations, yet he might say, that the 
opinions delivered by that noble lord had neither been less un- 
favourable to them, nor less strongly expressed, than his own ; and, 
so far from having adopted any measures calculated to foster or 
assist dealings of that hazardous character, he did most distinctly 
affirm, that Government had done every thing in its power to 
discourage speculations, and remove the infatuation. 

The debate was adjourned to the following day ; when Mr. Baring moved, 
by way of amendment, " That it is the opinion of this House, that, in the 
present disturbed state of public and private credit, it is not expedient to 
enter upon the consideration of the Banking System of the country." Upon 
which, the House divided : For the Amendment, 39. Against it, 222. 



( 437 ) 

EXPOSITION OF 

THE EFFECTS OF THE FREE TRADE SYSTEM 
ON THE SILK MANUFACTURE. 

FEBRUARY 24th, 1826. 

A FEW days after the meeting of Parliament, Mr. Baring, on presenting a 
Petition from Taunton against the introduction of French Silks, expressed a 
hope, that the subject would undergo a discussion at an early period, seeing 
that hundreds of thousands of individuals anticipated ruin and starvation from 
the late regulations. He was anxious to see whether or no the House would 
support ministers in their desperate resolution. Mr. Huskisson said, that 
whenever the subject should be brought forward in a regular and formal 
manner, he should be prepared to meet the objections to the regulations 
which had been recently adopted, with regard to the Silk Trade. Accord- 
ingly, this day, Mr. Ellice moved, " That a Select Committee be appointed 
to inquire into and examine the statements, contained in the various petitions 
from persons engaged in the Silk Manufacture, and to report their opinion 
and observations thereon to the House." In seconding the motion, Mr. 
John Williams declared, that "he could not allow the existence of half a 
million of persons to be used as an experiment in proving the correctness of 
an abstract theory. If the authors of this measure were so convinced of their 
principle, that they were prepared to make that sacrifice in carrying it into 
execution, the strength of their resolution would, under present circumstances, 
only prove the quality of their hearts. A perfect metaphysician, as Mr. 
Burke had observed, exceeded the devil in point of malignity, and contempt 
for the welfare of mankind. He must look upon their perseverance, itv this 
case at least, as a proof of overweening attention to the principle which they 
might have adopted, be the application, in experiment or result, either good 
or bad. Let the right honourable gentleman opposite, and his colleagues, 
take one admonition from him ; — the responsibility must, in any event, remain 
with them. From that responsibility no gentleman or set of gentlemen in 
that House could relieve them. The House might divide it with them and 
lessen it ; but the chief burthen must remain on their shoulders. Such was 
their fate, and to it they were bound by the constitution of the country, and 
by their acceptance of place ; and answer they must to the country for the 
result, however great or little the discretion which had directed them. If 
the House professed any community of feeling with the public, among whom 
were s6 many actual sufferers from the existing evil, ministers would be 
alarmed, and driven from their purpose by the vote of that night" 
37* 



438 EFFECTS OF THE FREE TRADE SYSTEM 

Mr. HusKissoN rose, and spoke, in substance, as follows : — 

Sir; — Although the honourable member for Coventry, who 
introduced the present motion, may be supposed to be under the 
influence of suggestions and views, which have been furnished to 
him by his constituents, and from other sources out of doors, I 
am, nevertheless, ready to admit that the circumstance ought not 
to detract from the weight, which is fairly due to the honourable 
member's statements and arguments, in support of the motion 
which he has submitted to the House. 

But, Sir, however true this may be, as far as respects the 
honourable member for Coventry, the same observation applies 
not, in the remotest degree, to the honourable and learned gentle- 
man who has seconded the motion ; and who, acting, I must sup- 
pose, under the influence of a connection, certainly not political, 
but the more binding, perhaps, as having been more recently 
formed, has thought proper to take a wider range, and to indulge 
in a higher tone of declamation : — or it may be, that he looks 
forward to the expectation of becoming the colleague of the 
honourable mover ; and, by his speech of this evening, proposes 
to declare himself a joint suitor with the honourable mover, for 
the future favours of the good people oT Coventry. Whatever 
may be the motives of the honourable and learned gentleman, I 
confess that I have listened with the utmost astonishment to the 
speech which he has just delivered. 

Sir, in the course of that speech, the honourable and learned 
gentleman repeatedly told us, that he was not authorized to make 
certain statements — that he was not at liberty to admit this, and 
to admit that. This, I presume, is a mode of expression, in which 
gentlemen of the legal profession are wont to indulge, to mark 
that they keep themselves within the strict limits of their briefs, 
and that the doctrines which they advocate are those prescribed 
to them by their instructions. However customary and proper 
such language may be in the courts of law, it certainly sounds 
new and striking in the mouth of a member of this House. 

With regard to the general tone of the honourable and learned 
gentleman's speech — the vehemence of his declamation, his un- 
qualified censure, and his attempts at sarcasm, I can, with perfect 
sincerity, assure the House, and the honourable and learned gen- 
tleman, that I entertain no sentiment bordering upon anger, nor 
any other feeling, save one, in which I am sure I carry with me 
the sympathy and concurrence of all those who entertain sound 
and enlightened views upon questions of this nature — a feeling of 
surprise and regret, at finding that honourable and learned gen- 
tleman, now for the first time, launching forth his denunciations 
and invectives against principles and measures, which have 



ON THE SILK MANUFACTURE. 439 

received the support of men the most intelHgent and best inform- 
ed, on both sides of this House, and throughout Europe. 

Having said thus much, I leave the honourable and learned 
gentleman to the full enjoyment to be derived from the new lights 
that have so suddenly broken in upon him. I leave to him, and 
to his honourable friends around him, to settle, among themselves, 
the taunts, the sneers, and the sarcasms, which he has heaped 
upon their heads, as the friends of those principles which are 
involved in the present discission — principles which it has been 
their boast that they were the first to recommend, and of which 
they have uniformly been the most eager advocates in this House. 

In whatever quarter the statements and arguments of the 
honourable member for Coventry may have originated, they are 
entitled to the serious and attentive consideration of the House ; 
more especially if derived from individuals now suffering distress 
from want of employment, and who may have been led to believe, 
that that want of employment has been caused by measures which 
have been adopted by this House. This circumstance adds to 
the difficulty in which I am placed, in rising to address the House 
on the present occasion. In opposing the proposed inquiry, I feel 
that I may be represented as insensible or indifferent to the suf- 
ferings of those on whose behalf it is called for. 

Sir, the honourable and learned member for Lincoln has, in- 
deed, given countenance to this unjust imputation. He has not 
only chosen to assert, that I am mistaken in my views — he has 
not scrupled to insinuate, that I am without feeling for the distress 
now prevailing amongst the manufacturing classes. [Mr. Wil- 
liams here denied that he had asserted any thing of the kind.] 
What, then. Sir, did the honourable and learned gentleman mean 
by his quotation ? To whom did he mean to apply the descrip- 
tion of an " insensible and hard-hearted metaphysician, exceeding 
the devil in point of malignity ?" — I appeal to the judgment of the 
House, whether the language made use of by the honourable and 
learned gentleman, with reference to me, was not such as to 
point to the inference, that I am that metaphysician lost to every 
sentiment of humanity, and indifferent to every feeling, beyond 
the successful enforcement of some favourite theory, at what- 
ever cost of pain and suffering to particular bodies of mj^ fellow- 
creatures 1 When the honourable and learned gentleman allows 
himself to talk of " hard-hearted metaphysicians, exceeding the 
devil in point of malignity," it is for him to reconcile such lan- 
guage with the general tenor of his sentiments on other occasions ; 
to explain, as he best may, to those around him, whether they 
are included in that insinuation ; — and it is for me to meet that 
insinuation (as far as it was levelled at me) with those feelings of 
utter scorn with which I now repel it. 



440 EFFECTS OF THE FREE TRADE SYSTEM 

Still, Sir, it sits heavily on my mind, that any individual, or 
any body of individuals, should in any quarter be impressed with 
the notion, that I, or any of my right honourable colleagues, could 
be capable of that which has been imputed to us; and it is but 
perfectly natural that I should feel anxious to show, that my 
own conduct, and that of my right honourable friends, has not 
been such as, in some quarters, it has been represented to be. 

The honourable member for Coventry, and the honourable and 
learned member for Lincoln, have, by some strange perversion, 
argued the whole case, as if I, and those who act with me, were 
hastily and prematurely pressing on some new, and till this 
evening, unheard-of measure — as if we were attempting to en- 
force that measure by all the influence of Government : instead 
of which we have proposed nothing, and are lying upon our oars, 
quietly waiting for the going into eflect of an Act of Parliament, 
passed more than eighteen months ago, with the unanimous con- 
currence of this House ; an act which is now the law of the 
land; and of the enactments of which all the parties concerned 
were as fully apprized on the day when it first passed this House, 
as they can be at this moment. 

In tlie view which I take of the speech of the honourable mem- 
ber for Coventry, of which I do not complain, and of the speech 
of the honourable and learned member for Lincoln, of which I 
do complain, the greater part of their arguments go to impugn 
those principles of commercial policy, which, under the sanction 
of Parliament, have now prevailed in this country for the last 
two or three years; — a policy, which has for its object gradually 
to unfetter the commerce of the country, by the removal of those 
oppressive prohibitions and inconvenient restrictions, which had 
previously existed ; and to give every facility and encouragement, 
consistent with vested interests, to the extension of the skill, the 
capital, and the industry of the people of England. 

This, then, being the real drift of the argument especially 
brought forward by the honourable and learned gentleman, it is, 
with reference to a much greater question, that I find myself 
called upon to consider the present motion. The point at issue 
is, not whether we shall grant the Committee, but whether we 
shall re-establish the prohibitory system? If we re-establish it 
in one instance, we shall very soon be called upon to do so in 
many others. If we once tread back our steps, we shall not be 
able, in this retrograde motion, to stop at that point from which 
we first set out: we must go further, and, ere long, we should 
have in this country a system of commerce, far more restrictive 
than that which was in force before the late changes. Anxious 
as I am to persevere in our present course, I say that, if we once 
depart from it, we must at least be consistent in our new career ; 



ON THE SILK MANUFACTURE. 441 

and that, to be consistent, we must impose restrictions and pro- 
hibitions, far beyond tiiose which have been lately removed. 

The present question, therefore, is not simply the motion before 
the House — but neither more nor less than, whether a restrictive 
or an enlarged system of commercial policy be the best for this 
country ? 

In order to come to a sound decision upon so important a sub- 
ject, it behooves the House to look back a little to the course of 
events, and to bear in mind some of the occurrences which have 
materially contributed to those relaxations in the restrictive sys- 
tem, of which it is now the fashion to complain. 

With this view, I must ask the permission of the House to call 
its attention to a Petition, presented to the House in the month 
of May, 1820, a period which, like the present, was one of great 
diificuity and puljlic distress. The Petition is somewhat long, 
but I assure the House, that those honourable members who may 
favour me with their attention, will be well rewarded by hearing 
sound principles laid down, in the clearest language, not by phi- 
losophers and unbending theorists — not by visionaries and hard- 
hearted metaphysicians, with the feelings of denions in their 
breasts — but by merchants and traders ; men of the greatest prac- 
tical experience in all that relates to commerce. This Petition, 
Sir, is a document of no ordinary interest. The House will see 
how decidedly the Petitioners maintain the principles upon which 
his Majesty's Government have acted ; and, when I have done 
reading it, I am sure they will admit, that those principles are 
therein expounded in words far more apt and forcible than any 
which I can command. The Petition, as I have already said, is 
not the exposition of any speculative doctrine. It conveys to the 
House the deliberate judgment of the Merchants and Traders of 
the City of London ; the result of their daily observation of the 
evils inflicted upon the country, by the unnecessary restrictions 
imposed upon their industry and pursuits. The Petition states, — 

" That Foreign commerce is eminently conducive to the wealth and pros- 
perity of the country, by enabling it to import the commodities for the pro- 
duction of which the soil, climate, capital, and industry of other countries are 
best calculated, and to export in payment those articles for which its own 
situation is better adapted. 

" That freedom from restraint is calculated to give the utmost extension to 
foreign trade, and the best direction to the capital and industry of the 
country. 

" That the maxim of buying in the cheapest market, and selling in the 
dearest, which regulates every merchant in his individual dealings, is strictly 
applicable, as the best rule for the trade of the whole nation. 

" That a policy, founded on these principles, would render the commerce 
3F 



442 EFFECTS OF THE FREE TRADE SYSTEM 

of the world an interchange of mutual advantages, and diffuse an increase 
of wealth and enjoyments among the inhabitants of each state. 

" That, unfortunately, a policy, the very reverse of this, has been, and is, 
more or less adopted and acted upon by the Government of this and of every 
other country ; each trying to exclude the productions of other countries, 
with the specious and well-meant design of encouraging its own productions; 
thus inflicting on the bulk of its subjects, who are consumers, the necessity 
of submitting to privations in the quantity or quality of commodities ; and 
thus rendering, what ought to be the source of mutual benefits, and of har- 
mony among states, a constantly recurring occasion of jealousy and hostility. 

" That the prevailing prejudices in favour of the protective or restrictive 
system may be traced to the erroneous supposition, that every importation of 
foreign commodities occasions a diminution or discouragement of our own 
productions to the same extent; whereas, it may be clearly shown, that 
although the particular description of production which could not stand 
against unrestrained foreign competition would be discouraged ; yet, as no 
importation could be continued for any length of time without a correspond- 
ing exportation, direct or indirect, there would be an encouragement for the 
purpose of that exportation of some other production, to which our situation 
might be better suited ; thus affording at least an equal, and probably a 
greater, and certainly a more beneficial employment to our own capital and 
labour." 

I will not trouble the House with reading the whole of this 
valuable document. — [Cries of " Read ! read !"] I will then, Sir, 
read the whole, for it is a most valuable document; and, indeed, 
so it was thought at the time, for it is one of a few, if not the 
only one, which is given at length in the published reports of our 
proceedings. 

" That of the numerous protective and prohibitory duties of our commer- 
cial code, it may be proved, that while all operate as a very heavy tax on the 
community at large, very few are of any ultimate benefit to the classes in 
whose favour they were originally instituted, and none to the extent of the 
loss occasioned by them to other classes. 

" That among the other evils of the restrictive or protective system, not 
the least is, that the artificial protection of one branch of industry, or source 
of protection against foreign competition, is set up as a ground of claim by 
other branches for similar protection ; so that, if the reasoning upon which 
these restrictive or prohibitory regulations are founded were followed consis- 
tently, it would not stop short of excluding us from all foreign commerce 
whatsoever. 

" And, the same strain of argument, which, with corresponding prohibitions 
and protective duties, should exclude us from foreign trade, might be brought 
forward to justify the re-enactment of restrictions upon the interchange of 



ON THE SILK MANUFACTURE. 443 

productions (unconnected with public revenue) among the kingdoms com- 
posing the union, or among the counties of the same kingdom. 

" That an investigation of the effects of the restrictive system at this time 
is peculiarly called for, as it may, in the opinion of the petitioners, lead to a 
strong presumption, that the distress which now so generally prevails is con- 
siderably aggravated by that system ; and that some relief may be obtained 
by the earliest practicable removal of such of the restraints, as may be shown 
to be most injurious to the capital and industry of the community, and to be 
attended with no compensating benefit to the public revenue. 

" That a declaration against the anti-commercial principles of our restric- 
tive system is of the more importance at the present juncture, inasmuch as, 
in several instances of recent occurrence, the merchants and manufacturers 
in foreign states have assailed their respective Governments with applications 
for further protective or prohibitory duties and regulations, urging the exam- 
ple and authority of this country, against which they are almost exclusively 
directed, as a sanction for the policy of such measures: and certainly, if the 
reasoning upon which our restrictions have been defended is worth any thing, 
it will apply in behalf of the regulations of foreign states against us ; they 
insist upon our superiority in capital and machinery, as we do upon their 
comparative exemption from taxation, and with equal foundation. 

" That nothing would more tend to counteract the commercial hostility of 
foreign states, than the adoption of a more enlightened and more conciliatory 
policy on the part of this country. 

" That although, as a matter of mere diplomacy, it may sometimes answer 
to hold out the removal of particular prohibitions on high duties, as depend- 
ing upon corresponding concessions by other states in our favour, it does not 
follow, that we should maintain our restrictions, in cases where the desired 
concessions on their part cannot be obtained ; our restrictions would not be 
the less prejudicial to our own capital and industry, because other govern- 
ments persisted in pursuing impolitic regulations. 

" That, upon the whole, the most liberal would prove to be the most politic 
course on such occasions. 

" That, independent of the direct benefit to be derived by this country on 
every occasion of such concession or relaxation, a great incidental object 
would be gained by the recognition of a sound principle or standard, to which 
all subsequent arrangements might be referred ; and by the salutary influence 
which a promulgation of such just views, by the legislature and by the nation 
at large, could not fail to have on the policy of other states. 

" That in thus declaring, as the petitioners do, their conviction of the im- 
policy and injustice of the restrictive system, and in desiring every practical 
relaxation of it, they have in view only such parts of it as are not connected, 
or are only subordinately so, with the public revenue; as long as the neces- 
sity for the present amount of revenue subsists, the petitioners cannot expect 
so important a branch of it as the Customs to be given up, nor to be materi- 
ally diminished, unless some substitute less objectionable be suggested : but 



4i4 EFFECTS OF THE FREE TRADE SYSTEM 

it is against every restrictive regulation of trade not essential to the revenue, 
against all duties merely protective from foreign competition, and against the 
excess of such duties as are partly for the purpose of revenue, and partly for 
that of protection, that the prayer of the present Petition is respectfully sub- 
mitted to the wisdom of Parliament: the petitioners therefore humbly pray, 
that the House will be pleased to take the subject into consideration, and to 
adopt such measures as may be calculated to give greater freedom to foreign 
commerce, and thereby to increase the resources of the State." 

It will be clear to all who have been at the trouble to attend to 
the very able document which I have just read, that it embraces 
all the great principles of commercial policy, upon which Parlia- 
ment has since legislated. 

Why do I lay so much stress upon this Petition? For the pur- 
pose of showing ; first, that if the Government have pursued this 
course, we have done so, not on the recommendations of vision- 
aries and theorists, but of practical men of business; secondly, 
that the merchants of the City of London— the great mart of the 
commerce and wealth of the country — felt convinced, in 1820, 
that the distress of that period was greatly aggravated by the 
narrow and short-sighted system of restrictions and prohibiiions 
which then prevailed; and that, in their judgment, the alleviation, 
if not the cure of that distress, was to be sought for in the re- 
moval of those restrictions and prohibitions. 

And, because we have followed up, cautiously and circum- 
spectly, the recommendations of the mercantile community, are 
we to be told by men who know nothing of commerce, that we 
are unfeeling projectors and metaphysicians, insensible to the 
wants and the miseries of our fellow-creatures? If this be a 
jOst charge against us, what are we to think of the parties who 
could sign, or of the member who could present, such a petition 
as this? This morning I took the trouble to look at the names 
of the merchants who signed it; and the first signature I read is 
that of one of the most distinguished of that class in the City of 
London ;. a gentleman who was many years ago Governor of the 
Bank of England, who is now one of the Directors of that 
establishment, and who was, for a long time, a valuable member 
of this House ; a gentleman who, in the best sense of the word, 
is a practical man, and one whose conduct in private life would 
protect him (if any man can be protected by his conduct) from 
the suspicion of being a "wild and unfeeling theorist" — a "hard- 
hearted metaphysician" — "alike indifferent to the wants and the 
miseries of his fellow-creatures" — I mean Mr. Samuel Thornton. 
And, besides his name, the list contains the names of others, who, 
like him, have been Governors of the Bank of England ; of 
several who are now in the Direction of that great estabhshment ; 



ON THE SILK MANUFACTOIE. 445 

and of many who hold the highest rank in the commercial 
world. 

Let it not, however, be supposed, that I offer this Petition to 
the House, in the way of an apology for myself and my right 
honourable colleagues — in the way of extenuation of any thing 
which we may have done, to excite the wrath of the honourable 
and learned member for Lincoln. Sir, I think now, as I have 
always thought, that our measures require no apology. I believe 
now, as I have always believed, that they are calculated to pro- 
mote the best interests of the people. I say now, as I have always 
said, that those who, either by their speeches in Parliament, or 
the exertions of their talents out of it, have contributed to bring 
the people of England to look with an eye of favour on the 
principles recommended in this Petition, have done themselves 
the greatest honour, and the country an essential benefit. 

If, however, I refrain from troubling the House with apologies, 
where I feel that they are not required, neither do I wish to claim 
for His Majesty's Government, any participation in the merit of 
these measures, beyond what really belongs to us. By a reference 
to many other petitions and proceedings of a like nature with 
those to which I have already adverted, I could show that, in all 
these matters, the first impulse w^as not given by the Government. 
We claim for ourselves no such credit. The changes hitherto 
made have been the result of public opinion, sanctioned by the 
concurrence of practical men, and confirmed by the proceedings 
and inquiries of the two Houses of Parliament. We did not create 
that opinion : we did not anticipate it : we did not even act upon 
it, until it was clearly and distinctly manifested. And, in what 
we have done, we have not exceeded the sober limits, prescribed 
by the authority of those, who by the habits and pursuits of their 
lives, were most competent to form a sound judgment. But, when 
that judgment was pronounced and recorded, it was our duty to 
act upon it. From those who fill responsible situations, the coun- 
try has a right to expect, not that they should be slow of convic- 
tion to important truths in matters of political economy; but that 
they should be cautious in deliberating, before they attempt to 
give them a practical application. The goad, which is used to 
give increased impetus to the machine, is an instrument more 
properly placed in other hands : the care of Government should 
rather be to regulate the drag, so as not to check the advance, 
but to maintain a safe and steady progress towards improve- 
ment. 

Has this been the principle of our policy on the subject now 

under consideration ? Before I sit down, I think I shall prove, Sir, 

that the system upon which his Majesty's Government have 

acted, has uniformly been guided by that principle. Need I re- 

38 



446 EFFECTS OF THE FREE TRADE SYSTEM 

mind the House, how frequently, and with what asperity, we 
have been charged, from the opposite Benches, with reluctance 
and tardiness in carrying into execution those principles of an 
enlarged and enlightened policy, in matters of commerce, upon 
which all parties were said to be agreed. Year after year have 
we been urged, by the force of public opinion out of doors, and 
by the earnest remonstrances of honourable members within, to 
adopt the very measures, against which a senseless clamour is 
now attempted to be excited. 

Who were the first, and the most earnest, in suggesting these 
measures — ay, and in wishing to push them to extremes — but 
some of those very persons whom we now find arrayed against 
us, and against those principles which they formerly supported? 
By whom was the petition which I have just read to the House 
presented 1 By whom was the prayer of it advocated ? 

After great note of preparation — after a formal notice of what 
was about to come — this Petition, Sir, was brought down, on the 
8th of May 1820, by the honourable member for Taunton,* 
whom I now see in his place. He it was. Sir, who introduced it 
to the attention of the House, in a long, but able and elaborate 
speech ; too long to be read by me now, as I have read the Peti- 
tion ; although, by so doing, I should add a most luminous com- 
mentary, in support of the doctrines of that Petition, and should" 
best show, by what force of argument and weight of authority, 
the honourable member then contended for those measures, which 
the House is now called upon to condemn, and in which condem- 
nation he himself appears disposed to concur. 

After mentioning the Petition, and the great respectability of 
the gentlemen by whom it was signed ; and after regretting, that 
" there was in the then circumstances of public embarrassment 
much, to which no remedy could be applied, at least, no Parlia- 
mentary remedy," the honourable gentleman went on to say, that 
the first desideratum was such security and tranquillity in the 
country, as would enable the possessor of capital to employ it 
without apprehension." 

The House will recollect, that the period at which this Petition 
was laid upon our table, was one of great public distress ; and, in 
that respect, it but too much resembled the present time. Now, 
however, though the country is again visited with pecuniary 
pressure, and though the labouring classes (many of them) are 
suffering great privations from the want of employment, I feel 
confident that we shall not witness the same danger to property, 
or the same disposition to violence, which at that time prevailed 
in the manufacturing districts. I feel confident, that the unfor- 

* Mr. Baring 



ON THE SILK MANUFACTURE. 447 

tunate individuals who, in 1820, allowed themselves to be misled 
by unprincipled agitators, will recollect how much their sufter- 
ings were increased by listening to pernicious counsels — counsels, 
which may prolong and aggravate, but which can, in no case, 
abridge or relieve their privations — and that they will not, a 
second time, lend a willing ear to those who would lead them on 
to their destruction. I trust they will so conduct themselves 
under their present difficulties, as to conciliate the regard and 
sympathy of every other class, and to excite in the bosoms of 
those from whom alone they can expect assistance, no other feel- 
ings than those of kindness and benevolence. 

Sir, after " security and tranquillity," the honourable member 
for Taunton proceeded to say, that " the second desideratum was, 
as great a Freedom of Trade as was compatible with other and 
important considerations." In the opinion of the honourable 
member, at that time, a free trade was the very essence of com- 
mercial prosperity; and, therefore, he pressed us to adopt, all at 
once, the system which we have since gradually introduced. 

The honourable member then proceeded — as he has since done, 
upon several occasions, and done, indeed, this session — to tax my 
right honourable friend, the Chancellor of the Exchequer (who 
then filled the situation which I now hold), and the other members 
of his Majesty's Government, with apathy, and a total indifference 
to the distressed state of the manufacturing districts. " So far 
were they," said the honourable member, " from being sensible 
of the necessity of some exertion, that they went on, from year 
to year, trusting that the next year would be spontaneously pro- 
ductive of some favourable change, and, apparently, with very 
indistinct notioiis of what the real condition of the country was. 
Whenever a question arose between two classes of the com- 
munity, Government, without seeming to have any opinion of 
their own, stood by, until they ascertained which party could give 
them the most effectual support. If the House looked back to an 
earlier period of those which were still our own times, they would 
behold a different picture; they would find Mr. Pitt engaged in 
framing a Commercial Treaty; and amidst difficulties of every 
description, boldly taking whatever steps appeared to him to be 
best calculated to advance our commercial prosperity. He wished 
that he could see a little of the same spirit in the present day ; 
but, instead of that, his Majesty's Ministers were balancing one 
party against another, and trying how they could keep their 
places from year to year ; neglecting, in the meanwhile, all those 
great commercial and national questions, to which their most 
lively attention ought to be directed." 

The honourable member for Taunton then went on to say — 
and I perfectly agree with him — that, " the first doctrine which 



448 EFFECTS OF THE FREE TRADE SYSTEM 

the Petitioners wished to combat, was that fallacious one which 
had, of late years, arisen, that this country ought to subsist on its 
own produce ; that it was wise on the part of every country, to 
raise within itself the produce requisite for its consumption." — " It 
was really absurd to contend," continued the honourable member, 
" that if a country, by selling any article of manufacture, could 
purchase the produce which it might require, at one half the 
expense at which that produce could be raised, it should never- 
theless be precluded from doing so." 

This is unquestionably sound doctrine, and I readily admit it. 
But, how is it to be reconciled with the doctrine, which is now 
maintained by great authorities out of doors, as that which ought 
to be the rule of our commercial policy? According to these 
authorities, to which we have now to add that of the honourable 
and learned seconder of the present motion. Prohibition is the 
only effectual protection to trade: duties must be unavailing 
for this purpose, because the influence of soil and climate, the 
price of labour, the rate of taxation, and other circumstances, are 
constantly varying in different countries, and consequently, the 
scale of protection would require to be varied from month to 
month. But, what is the legitimate inference to be drawn from 
this exclusive system ? Can it be other than this — that all inter- 
change of their respective commodities, between different coun- 
tries of the world, is a source of evil, to the one or the other? — 
that each country must shut itself up within itself, making the 
most of its own resources, refusing all commerce with any other 
country, barbarously content to suffer wants which this com- 
merce might easily supply, and to waste its own superfluous pro- 
ductions at home ; because, to exchange them for the superfluities 
of that other country, instead of being an exclusive advantage to 
either party, would afford an equivalent benefit to both. This is 
the short theory of Prohibitions, which these sage declaimers 
against all theory, are so anxious to recommend to the practical 
merchants of this country. 

But, if this system be wise and just in itself; if, for the reasons 
alleged in its support, it be necessary for the protection of British 
industry, let us see to what it leads. Can this country command 
labour, on the same terms as Ireland? Is the scale of taxation 
the same ? Are the poor rates the same, in the two countries ? 
Is there any country in Europe which, more than Ireland, difl'ers 
from Great Britain in these and many other particulars, affecting 
their commercial relations? Does it not follow, that, if we admit 
the system of prohibitions, now recommended to us by the 
honourable and learned member for Lincoln, we must prohibit ail 
commercial intercourse with Ireland — we must revive those laws 
which forbade the manufactures, and repelled the productions of 



ON THE SILK MANUFACTURE. 449 

her soil — we must sacrifice the mutual benefits, which both parts 
of the eiTipire now derive from the unrestricted freedom of inter- 
course — we must again revert to the prejudices of our ancestors? 

And, for what? — because, from prejudices certainly less par- 
donable, if not from motives less sincere, than those of our ances- 
tors, a senseless clamour has recently been raised, against the 
present system of our commercial policy. I have no desire to 
disturb the partizans of the opposite system, in the enjoyment of 
their favourite theory. All I ask of them is, a similar ibrbearance 
towards us. Let each system be fully and fairly tried. For the 
sake of Freedom of Trade and Industry, and for the sake of 
England, let England be the field of trial for our system. For 
the sake of Prohibition and Monopoly, let the system of our 
adversaries also be fairly tried ; — only let the trial be made upon 
some other country. 

But, can Prohibition ever be tried under circumstances of 
greater favour, than it now experiences in Spain ? In that flour- 
ishing country, prohibition has been carried to the very extreme. 
There, restriction has been added to restriction, — there, all the 
fruits of that beautiful system are to be seen, not yet, perhaps, in 
full maturity, but sufficiently mature, to enable every one to judge 
of their qualities. Spain is the best sample of the prohibitory 
system ; the most perfect model of fallen greatness and of internal 
misery, of which modern civilization affords an example — an 
example to be traced, not only in the annihilation of her com- 
merce and maritime power, but, in her scanty revenue, in her 
bankrupt resources, in the wretchedness of her population, and in 
her utter insignificance among the great powers of tlie world. 
The commercial policy of Spain is simply this — to admit nothing 
from other countries — except what the smuggler brings in. And 
the commercial wisdom of the honourable and learned seconder 
of the present motion is equal to that of Spain. 

I must now beg of the House to indulge me for a little, while 1 
endeavour to go through the detail of the specific measures 
recommended, in the Speech of the honourable member for 
Taunton, on presenting the London Petition. It will be perceiv- 
ed, how false and unfounded are all those clamours, which have 
been heaped upon me and my right honourable colleagues, for 
having unnecessarily made those" alterations in our system of 
Commercial Policy, which, if I am to believe certain gentlemen, 
have plunged this country into misery and ruin. 

The honourable member for Taunton, who is so great a prac- 
tical authority, — the greatest, perhaps, this country affords — did 
not content himself in his speech with stating general principles. 
He referred to details; and, as I have just observed, he proposed 
measures of relief of a specific and particular nature. These 
38* 3G 



450 EFFECTS OF THE FREE TRADE SYSTEM 

propositions the House, I hope, will permit me to go over, one by 
one, in order to show that his Majesty's Gov^ernment have not 
been wanting in attention to the suggestions of the Merchants of 
the City of London, nor backward in adopting their remedies, 
and recommending them to the consideration of the House. 

The first measure pointed out, upon that occasion, and recom- 
mended in the warmest terms, to the attention of his Majesty's 
Ministers, for the relief of the country, was " an alteration of the 
duty on the importation of Wool." " What can be so absurd," 
said the honourable member, " as a tax on the raw materials of 
our manufactures 1" Accordingly, he urged the abolition of the 
duty on the importation of Foreign Wool, dyeing drugs, and such 
other articles as are used in the great manufactures of this coun- 
try. What, at that time, was our answer to this proposition? 
Why, this — " We have no objection to take off the duty on the 
importation of Foreign wool, provided you will consent to allow 
the free exportation of British wool." — " No," said the woollen 
manufacturers, '• take off the duty on Foreign wool, if you please ; 
but keep in force the law which prohibits the exportation of 
British wool from this country." To this proposal we would not 
agree. We could not, upon any principle of justice, open our 
markets to an untaxed article of foreign growth, unless the manu- 
facturer would concede his monopoly over the like article of our 
own growth. After years and years of struggle and conflict, we 
at last succeeded in convincing- our opponents, that the duty on 
Foreign wool might be taken off, and the prohibition to export 
British wool be repealed, without endangering their interests. 

And what has been the result ? Where is the ruin that was so 
confidently predicted ? I own I am more and more distrustful 
of the predictions of these practical authorities. Instead of our 
manufactures being ruined — instead of the fulfilment of the assu- 
rances, that all the British wool would be exported, to the utter 
destruction of our manufacturers, and that from their destruction 
the Foreign wool would no longer be wanted in this country — 
what has been the real effect of this measure? Why, that since 
the removal of the restrictions on the export, we have sent abroad 
the amazing quantity of 100,000 lbs. weight of British wool; 
while, of Foreign wool, we have imported no less a quantity 
than 40,000,000 lbs. weight. This, Sir, is not speculation. It is 
practice and result against speculation. We removed the restric- 
tive and prohibitory duties, and the consequences w^ere, that we 
imported an excess of the foreign raw material, while we export- 
ed, comparatively, none of native growth — because, we had a 
better market for it at home. Good or bad, therefore, the first 
measure recommended to the attention of his Majesty's Ministers 
by the honourable member has been carried into complete effect. 



ON THE SILK MANUFACTimE. 45I 

The second measure proposed for our adoption, by the honour- 
able member for Taunton, was a general revision of the Revenue 
Laws, with a view to their simplification. The honourable mem- 
ber stated — and he stated truly — that those laws w'ere so numer- 
ous, so complicated, and so contradictory, that mercantile men 
could not understand them — that they were at once a great im- 
pediment to trade, and a source of vexation and oppression to all 
who were engaged in it — that no man, however innocent his 
intention, could escape their penalties ; that, therefore, it was the 
bounden duty of his Majesty's Government to simplify and con- 
solidate them. 

The task was one of great magnitude and difficulty; but we 
did not shrink from it. My right honourable friend, the Chancellor 
of the Exchequer, devoted a great deal of time and attention to 
the subject: but, I am free to admit, that we never could have 
succeeded in our undertaking, without the assistance of an official 
gentleman, in the service of the Qustoms, a gentleman* of the 
most unwearied diligence, and who is entitled, for his persevering 
exertions, and the benefit he has conferred on the commercial 
world, to the lasting gratitude of the country. Of the difficulties 
of the undertaking, the House will be enabled to judge, when I 
state, that there were no fewer than five hundred statutes, relative 
to the Customs alone, to wade through ; independently of the 
numerous enactments concerning Smuggling, Warehousing, the 
Plantations, &c. In the performance of this duty, we had 
innumerable difficulties to encounter, and battles without end to 
fight. And now. Sir, in one little volume,f which I hold in my 
hand, are comprised all the Laws at present in existence, on the 
subject of the management and the revenue of the Customs, of 
Navigation, of Smuggling, of Warehousing, and of our Colonial 
Trade, compressed in so clear and yet so comprehensive a man- 
ner, that no man can possibly mistake the meaning or the applica- 
tion of them. I do not say this to boast of the successful result 
of our labours. It was the duty of Government to do what it 
has done. I only adduce it to show, that this, the second recom- 
mendation of the honourable member, as the organ of the Com- 
mercial world, has not been disregarded. 

Then comes the third recommendation of the honourable mem- 
ber for Taunton ; namely, that we should do away with Prohibi- 
tions altogether; and substitute, in all cases, protecting for pro- 
hibitory duties. I will beg leave to read a short extract from 
w hat I consider a very accurate report of this part of the hon- 

* J. D. Hume, Esq., Comptroller of His Majesty's Customs in the Port of 
London. 

t Laws of the Customs, by J. D. Hume, Esq. 



452 EFFECTS OF THE FREE TRADE SYSTEM 

Durable member's speech. " Another desirable step," said he, 
" would be to do away totally prohibitions, as much as possible." 
To be sure, Sir, it may be ditficult to reconcile " totally," and 
" as much as possible ;" but, I have no doubt the honourable 
member's meaning was to express his thorough detestation of the 
prohibitory principle. " Where," he continues, " protection for 
particular manufactures is considered to be necessary, it ought to 
be in the form of duty, and not in that of prohibition. Prohibi- 
tions had, no doubt, seriously injured the Revenue, by the en- 
couragement which they gave to smuggling. The Customs had 
fallen off a million and a half, in the course of the last year. He 
was sure that a good deal of that defalcation might be ascribed 
to Prohibitions." 

I intreat the House to attend to what follows in the Speech of 
the honourable member: — "Nothing could be more absurd than 
to suppose, that any prohibition would prevent the introduction 
of the articles which were in demand. The fact was, that, at an 
advance of twenty or twenty-five per cent., all light prohibited 
articles might be had at our doors. He would not say which sex 
was most to blame, but such was the fact." Now, here we have 
the opinion of a practical man, who had come to this conclusion, 
after collecting the best evidence upon the subject, during his 
repeated visits to Paris. Indeed, I cannot help thinking, that the 
honourable member had Silk, and nothing but Silk, in his view, 
at the time when he made these allusions. The honourable mem- 
ber has long been a professor of those doctrines, which he now 
reprobates me for upholding, as much as he then censured the 
Government for not more readily adopting. Even in the year 
1817 — also a period of distress — I find the honourable member 
declaring to the House, that, "in the article of Silk, smuggling 
was carried on to a very great extent ; a proof of which was tp 
be found in the fact, that although silks were in much greater use 
now than formerly, yet that the British manufacturer was ruin- 
ed." So that it appears. Sir, that in the year 1817, the Silk manu- 
facture, which, according to the doctrines of the present day, can 
only flourish under a system of prohibition, was, in that year, in 
a state of ruin, owing to prohibition. 

The stagnation and embarrassment of 1816 and 1817 were 
followed by a state of unusual commercial activity. In like 
manner, the depression of 1822 and 1823 terminated in the ex- 
traordinary spirit of speculation, which marked the autumn of 
1824, and the spring and summer of 1825. It is not irrelevant 
to the present discussion to compare these two periods, each com- 
mencing with commercial distress, and each ending in over-trad- 
ing — each marked, in its first stage, by a great contraction of 
our paper circulation, and the accumulation of a vast amount of 



ON THE SILK MANUFACTURE. 453 

gold in the coffers of the Bank, and, in its second, by a great 
expansion of our circulating credit, and by the re-exportation of 
most of the gold which the Bank had previously accumulated. 
This comparison, whilst it connects itself with the question now 
under our immediate consideration, is calculated to throw some 
light on the equally important question of the Currency, w^hich, 
at this moment, occupies so much of the attention of Parliament 
and of the country. 

At the beginning of the year 1817, "the Bank," as we are in- 
formed by the Report of the Committee of 1819, "possessed a 
larger amount of cash and bullion in their coffers, than they had 
been in the possession of, at any former period since their establish- 
ment." With this accumulation, they gave notice of a partial 
resumption of cash payments, engaging to pay in gold all notes 
under 51. From the beginning of 1817 till the month of July in 
that year, the whole demand for gold coin, under this notice, did 
not exceed 38,000/. ; but, in consequence of a great augmentation 
of Bank paper in August 1817 (exceeding, by upwards of three 
millions, the amount of the corresponding month in the preceding 
year), and of a like augmentation of country paper, the foreign 
exchanges were turned against this country; and, from that mo- 
ment, the gold was withdrawn from the Bank with much greater 
rapidity. In the course of the following eighteen months, many 
millions of coin were thus put into circulation, without any corre- 
sponding diminution in the amount of Bank notes; — or rather, to 
speak more accurately, these millions, as soon as they were taken 
from the Bank, were sent to France, and other parts of the Con- 
tinent, till the treasure of the Bank was very much reduced at the 
beginning of 1819; and then the amount of their notes was again 
contracted. This contraction was followed by a great depression 
of commerce, and of prices, in the subsequent years. During 
this depression, the Government were frequently called upon, as 
they are now called upon, to give relief, by an issue of com- 
mercial Exchequer Bills; but our first object, then, was per- 
manently to restore — as our first object, now, is effectually to 
secure — a system of cash payments; the success of which might 
have been endangered by this mode of relief. So much for the 
first period, as far as relates to our Currency. 

In the first stage of the second period — 1822, 1823, and a part 
of 1824 — the Bank again accumulated an amount of gold, greater 
even than what it possessed at the beginning of 1817. Between 
September 1824 and November 1825, that gold was again taken 
out of the Bank, under all the like circumstances of the foreign 
Exchanges being against this country, and with the like results 
as had occurred in 1818. Again, notwithstanding the issue of so 
many millions of coin, the amount of Bank notes and of country 



454 EFFECTS OF THE FREE TRADE SYSTEM 

paper was increased : again, these millions so issued were, for 
the greatest part, exported ; and again, in the autumn of 1825, 
the Bank was driven to take precautions, by contracting its cir- 
culation, in order to protect its remaining treasure. What has 
since occurred is known and felt by ail. 

So much for the Currency ; now for the Trade. 

In 1816 and 1817, during the first absorption of treasure by 
the Bank, the amount of Silk imported was, upon the average of 
the two years, 1,150,807 lbs.; — in 1818, during the first flight of 
our coin to the Continent, that importation was raised to 2,101,618 
lbs., being an increase of 81 per cent. — Of Sheep's Wool, the 
average importation of the first two years was 11,416,853 lbs.: 
— in the year 1818 alone the quantity was 26,405,486 lbs., being 
an increase of 130 per cent. — Of Cotton Wool, the average of the 
two first years was 423,580 bales: — the amount in 1818 was 
660,580 bales, being an increase of 57 per cent. 

Let us now compare the import of the same articles in the 
years 1823 and 1824, with the import of 1825. It will turn out 
as follows: — Silk, average import of 1823 and 1824, 2,780,600 
lbs.: — import of 1825, 4,231,673 lbs., being an increase at the 
rate of 50 per cent. Sheep's Wool, average import of 1823 and 
1824, 19,225,306 lbs.:— import of 1825, 38,705,682 lbs., being an 
increase at the rate of 100 per cent. Cotton Wool, average 
import of 1823 and 1824, 167,120,065 lbs. :— import of 1825, 
222,457,616 lbs., being an increase at the rate of 33 per cent. 

I will not go more at length into this subject. It would lead 
me too far away from other topics, growing more immediately 
out of this debate, to which I have still to advert; but I have said 
enough to point out, to those who take an interest in these matters, 
the intimate relation that exists between our Currency and our 
Trade ; to show in what manner the expansion of our paper cir- 
culation, combined with an unfavourable foreign Exchange, leads 
to overtrading, till overtrading again forces a contraction of the 
currency: thus producing those alternations of extravagant ex- 
citement and of fearful depression, which this country has so 
often experienced of late years ; alternations, of which the conse- 
quences are at once so dangerous to men of capital, so distressing 
to the labourers who depend for employment on that capital, and 
so subversive of those principles of security to property, on which 
the prosperity of every commercial state must ultimately rest. 

The immediate inference which I draw from this comparison 
is, that the present stagnation in the Silk Trade is more produced 
by the late alternation, than by any eflfect of the Law which will 
come into operation next July. 

To return. Sir, to the Speech of the honourable member for 
Taunton. The fourth point to which he called the attention of 



ON THE SILK MANUFACTURE. 455 

Government, was, the state of the Navigation Laws. The change 
which the honourable member recommended would, in fact, have 
amounted to the total repeal of those Laws. He thought, " that 
no restriction ought to be held on foreign ships importing into 
this country, whether the produce was of their own, or any other 
country." Accustomed to look on these laws as the prop of our 
maritime power, and to watch with a jealous eye any encroach- 
ment upon them, we could not consent to this sweeping principle 
of innovation. On the other hand, we professed ourselves ready 
to inquire, how far some of their regulations, inconvenient for 
trade, might be dispensed with, without prejudice to the higher 
political objects, for which those Laws were originally enacted. 
This inquiry was gone into with great care, by a Committee, 
over the labours of which, my right honourable friend, the Master 
of the Mint, presided ; and the result has been that, by his zeal 
and diligence, several measures have been introduced to the 
House, which have led to a relaxation in those Laws, highly 
beneficial to the commerce of the country, and in no way injuri- 
ous to our strength as a maritime power. But the principle of 
those Laws is still retained. In this instance, certainly, we have 
not been able to go all the lengths recommended by the practical 
men ; but, be it recollected, that the charge, against which I am 
now upon my defence, is that we are theorists. 

The fifth point which was strongly recommended by the 
honourable member for Taunton, was the removal of the Transit 
Duties on German Linens, and some other articles of foreign pro- 
duce. At the very time that the honourable member was press- 
ing for this removal, he must have been aware, that his Majesty's 
ministers were sensible of the impolicy of these restrictions, and. 
that they were desirous, not only to get rid of them, but also to 
revise the whole system of Bounties and Drawbacks. But he 
could not be ignorant of the complication of interests, and the 
difficulty of detail, which we had to encounter, in every stage of 
this undertaking. He could not be ignorant of the prejudices, by 
which this system was upheld. For the abatement of those pre- 
judices, we thought it more safe and more expedient, to trust to 
the influence of time and reason, than, at all hazards, to encounter 
them at once by an act of power. This was our theory in 1820; 
and, I am now happy to add, that, by adhering to it, we have 
been completely successful. The Transit Duties have been all 
removed; and the system of Bounties and Drawbacks has under- 
gone an entire revision, and been remodelled on an improved 
plan. 

To come to the sixth recommendation of the honourable mem- 
ber for Taunton. He told us, that " it was of importance that we 
should alter our Commercial Regulations with respect to France. 



456 EFFECTS OF THE FREE TRADE SYSTEM 

It was desirable," added he, " that restrictive regulations between 
the trade of England and France should be removed ; but, to do 
so, we must begin at home. It would be unfair to attempt a 
negotiation for a commercial intercourse, while we kept our ports 
shut against them. Let it be considered, that it was not by a 
restrictive system, that this country had grown to such a pitch 
of greatness ; but on the contrary, that such a system was a bar 
to that greatness. It was necessary also to remove an impression 
which our system of commerce had made abroad. We were 
looked up to as the first commercial nation in the world ; and it 
was, therefore, believed, that we had adopted our restrictive or 
protecting system, from a conviction of its beneficial effects on 
our commerce. This impression it was our interest, as well as 
our duty, to remove, by altering our Commercial Regulations 
with foreign powers." 

This advice of the honourable member for Taunton, his Ma- 
jesty's Government have also attended to. What have we done 
in this case ? We have " begun at home." We have set an ex- 
ample to the nations of the Continent. We have put an end to 
the restrictive system afl!ecting France, as far as we could put an 
end to it. And, we have invited France to follow in our track, 
by doing away with the obstacles existing on her part to a 
greater freedom of trade. France has taken a first step towards 
placing the intercourse between the two countries upon a 'footing 
of greater facility. This is a practical approximation, on her 
part, to the principle of a more enlarged system of commerce ; a 
principle, equally recognized by the most enlightened statesmen, 
and the most leading merchants, of that country ; a principle 
which cannot fail to make its way in France, as it has made its 
way in this country, by discussion and inquiry, and which, in pro- 
portion as it gains ground, will confer advantages upon France, 
and, by her and our example, furnish a salutary lesson to the rest 
of the world. 

As I have adverted to this subject, I will beg leave to say one 
word, as to the Convention of Navigation recently concluded 
between the two countries ; upon which a misconception appears 
to have gone abroad. I allude to the Decree of the French 
Government against the introduction of the produce of Asia, 
Africa, and America, through this country, into France, for home 
consumption. The Regulation of this Decree has been mistakenly 
considered, as the effect of a stipulation under the Convention. 
This I beg leave to deny. The Decree is an act of the French 
government, quite independent of the Convention. It might, and 
probably would, have been passed, had no such Convention been 
made between the two countries. A similar law was proposed 
to the Chambers last year, and then only postponed. It is a 



ON THE SILK MANUFACTURE 457 

Regulation of which we have no right to complain, and against 
which we have no rigiit to stipulate ; because, the like restriction 
exists in this country. That for which we had a right to stipulate, 
and for which we have stipulated, is, that if, in relaxation of this 
Decree, any of the productions of Asia, Africa, or America, are 
admitted into France for home consun)ption, from this country, 
they shall be equally admitted, and upon the same duties, in 
British as in French vessels. 

I do not deny that, beyond what is provided for by this Con- 
vention, much might be done to improve the commercial relations 
of this country and France; but, the basis is laid down, and the 
contracting parties have expressly reserved to themselves " the 
power of making, by mutual consent, such relaxations in the 
strict execution of the article, as they may think useful to the 
respective interests of the two countries, on the principle of mutual 
concessions, affording each to the other reciprocal or equivalent 
advantages." The development and further application of this 
principle must be left to time, and to an improved state of public 
opinion in France. But, I confidently appeal to the House, and 
to the honourable member, to say, whether the best counse for 
doing away with prejudices, and unfavourable impressions on the 
Continent, would be for us to retrace our steps ; to re-enact the 
old prohibitions and restriction; and to exclude foreign mer- 
chandize and foreign shipping, as we had formerly done. 

Seventhly, and lastly, the honourable member for Taunton re- 
commended to his Majesty's Government, " an extension of our 
trade with British India." In answer to this suggestion it is only 
necessary for me to say, that our attention has been incessantly 
directed towards that desirable object. We have left no steps 
untried, to prevail on the East-India Company to consent to an 
enlargement of the Private Trade. To a certain point we have 
succeeded, though not to the extent of our wishes. If all that the 
honourable member sought for has not been done, the fault is not 
ours ; we have no means of compelling the company to comply 
with the wishes of the merchants. The vested rights of that cor- 
poration have been conferred upon them by Parliament; and, 
inconvenient or not, we are bound to respect those rights, till the 
expiration of that period for which they have been granted. 

These are the principal improvements which were urged on 
the Government of the country, in the year 1820, by the honour- 
able member for Taunton; speaking — be it always remembered 
— in the name, and on the behalf, of the Merchants of London. 
To all of these suggestions, I say, his Majesty's Ministers have 
attended. My right honourable friend, the Chancellor of the 
Exchequer, who then filled the situation which I now hold, replied 
to the Speech of the honourable member, on that occasion. He 
39 3H 



458 EFFECTS OF THE FREE TRADE SYSTEM 

repelled the accusation of the honourable member, that the 
Government were insensible to the sufferings of the people. He 
avowed his desire to proceed in the course that was recommend- 
ed ; but he, at the same time, represented the ditficulties by which 
his endeavours had, till then, been opposed. Did the honourable 
member acknowledge himself satisfied with the assurance and 
explanation of my right honourable friend 1 By no means, Sir. 

So eager was the honourable member for Taunton for the im- 
mediate enforcement of these important changes, that he con- 
cluded his reply to my right honourable friend, in the following 
terms : " as to the Petition itself, the principles which it contained 
had met with so unanimous a support, that he wondered whence 
that opposition could come, by which the right honourable the 
President of the Board of Trade seemed to be deterred from 
attempting any reform of our Commercial System ; and he could 
not help expressing a hope, that, for the future, ihat right honour- 
able gentleman would not listen entirely to the suggestions of 
others, but, in treating the subject, would rely on his own excellent 
understanding." 

With this admonition, the debate closed. The recommenda- 
tions of the honourable member — the great authorities from which 
they origincited — convinced the Government, that the time was 
come, when they might go forward with measures, to which they 
had long before avowed a friendly disposition. The consequence 
was, a determination, on their part, to institute an inquiry before 
a Committee of this House, in order to ascertain, how far, and 
by what course of proceeding, the steps recommended, and any 
others founded upon the same principles, could be acted upon, for 
the general improvement of the Commerce of the Country. 

In the other House of Parliament, a Committee was sitting, 
whose labours were directed to the same object. This Commit- 
tee had been appointed upon the motion of a noble Marquis ;* 
who had, at all times, taken the liveliest interest, in whatever 
relates to the Trade and Commerce of the country ; and whose 
principles, in these matters, unlike to the grasshopper on the Royal 
Exchange, do not veer about, whh every change of wind, or with 
every fluctuation in the speculations of those who transact busi- 
ness in that Exchange. 

One of the subjects which particularly engaged the attention of 
the noble Marquis, and of the Committee over which he presided, 
was, the state of the Silk Trade. They heard evidence ; they 
called for papers; and they examined witnesses, from every 
quarter. What was the result of their investigation? Why, Sir, 
they state in their Report, that, "it appears to the Committee, 

* The Marquis of Lansdowne. 



ON THE SILK MANUFACTURE. 459 

that there are no bounds to Smuggling, under the prohibitive sys- 
tem ; and that, in the opinion of the Committee, protecting duties 
might, advantageously, be substituted for prohibitive ones." 

Such was the view taken by the Committee of the House of 
Lords, in 1821. I will not detain the House, by going at length 
into the course of inquiry, by which they arrived at this conclu- 
sion. But, some attempt has been made this night to undervalue 
the Evidence of two merchants from the United States, who were 
examined before the Committee ; and examined, be it recollected, 
upon oath. These two merchants came to Europe, for the pur- 
pose of purchasing Silks. They first visited France; and then 
they came to England. They could be actuated by no other 
interest, than that of procuring Silks on the cheapest terms. 

And what was their evidence ? On being asked, as to the rela- 
tive cost of the silks of France and the silks of England, one of 
them said, that " he had bought goods in France and in England ; 
and that the difference, when the quality was equal, was from 
twenty to twenty-five per cent. ;" and the other said, that " the 
difference did not exceed twenty per cent.:" but, both of them 
stated, that, in the article of Silk hosiery, price and quality con- 
sidered, they greatly preferz'ed the English manufacture to that 
of France. 

The Report containing this evidence, recommended an altera- 
tion of the laws relative to the Silk Trade, by the removal of the 
duty on the raw material, and of the prohibition on raw silks. 
Honourable members, however, are aware, that the House of 
Lords could not, from the nature of the proposed change, initiate 
a measure, to carry into effect the object of this Report. 

Nothing further took place till the year 1823 ; when the honour- 
able member for the city of London,* came down to this House 
with a Petition from the Master Manufacturers of Spital-Fields, 
praying for a repeal of what is generally called " the Spital- 
Fields' Act." This, as the House wells knows, was a law for 
regulating the mode of working in that district ; and for enabling 
the magistrates to fix the rate of wages to be given for each 
description of work. In short, a most unfit law to remain upon 
the Statute Book ; but the professed object of which was, to pro- 
tect the Men against the exactions of their Masters. The only 
possible excuse for having ever passed such a law is that, when 
it was passed, the Masters had a monopoly of the Silk manufac- 
ture in this country. 

I will tell the House why I state this. A deputation of the 
Weavers of Spital-Fields waited upon me, and my right honour- 
able friend, the other day. They are a sincere, well-meaning, 

* Mr. Thomas Wilson. 



460 EFFECTS OF THE FREE TRADE SYSTEM 

and, certainly, a well-behaved body of men. After hearing their 
representations, I was satisfied, that if I had put it to them, to 
make their choice between the revival of the Spital-Fields' Act, 
or of the prohibitory system — if I had said to them, " You cannot 
have both a Prohibition and the Spital-Fields' Act, but you may 
have either the one or the other — take your choice !" — they would 
have instantly said, " Give us the Spital-Fields' Act, and let the 
prohibition go to the winds." So much for practical feeling; 
which is now urged in opposition to what is called theory ! 

And here I must beg leave shortly to refer to the doctrine laid 
down in the Petition presented in 1823, by the honourable mem- 
ber for the City of London, to which I have just alluded. The 
Petitioners state, " that with our unlimited supply of Silk from our 
territories in India, we might be independent of the rest of the 
world ; that with our great command of capital, and the unrivalled 
skill of our artisans, the manufacturers did not fear the competi- 
tion of any foreigners : and that, with a Free Trade, Silk would 
become, like Cotton, one of the staple manufactures of the 
country." 

I do not mean to accuse these Petitioners of making this state- 
ment, in order to entrap the public, and to induce the Parliament 
to take measures, which they knew would involve their own 
manufacture in distress: but, I have a right to refer to their Peti- 
tion, as well as to the more general Petition of the Merchants of 
London, to show, that the measures which his Majesty's Minis- 
ters have taken, are neither the offspring of theory, nor measures 
which they carried in opposition to the prevailing opinion of the 
country, or of the Trade. They brought forward these measures, 
because they were convinced that they were founded in sound 
policy ; but not till they were satisfied, that they would meet with 
the concurrence and support of those who had a more immediate 
interest in their result. So far was Government from any precipi- 
tation in carrying them into effect, that it was not till the year 
1824 that they determined to propose the repeal of the duty on 
the raw material, and to permit the importation of the foreign 
manufactured Silk, subject to a protecting duty. They were 
aware that, without taking the duty off the raw material, they 
could not attempt this improvement ; but, as soon as my right 
honourable friend, the Chancellor of the Exchequer, was enabled, 
by the flourishing state of the finances, to reduce taxation, he did 
not hesitate to remit this duty, as the necessary preliminary to 
the removal of the prohibition. 

From that moment, we lost the support of the honourable 
member for Taunton, to whom I have so often alluded; and his 
voice was only heard in opposition to measures, which he had 
so long been recommending for our adoption. 



ON THE SILK MANUFACTURE. 461 

My right honourable friend, the Chancellor of the Exchequer, 
having, on the 23d of February, 1824, stated generally to the 
House, what it was our intention to do ; it fell to my lot, on the 
8th of March, to open the measure more in detail. Then it was 
that I heard, for the first time, of the serious o})position which the 
proposed measure would receive from the honourable member for 
Taunton. Then it was, that, seconded by the honourable mem- 
ber for Coventry, who opened the debate of this evening, he 
declared that, by the end of the two years, which I proposed to 
allow before the prohibition should finally cease, the Silk trade 
would be destroyed. 

This delay I now^ consider to have been the greatest error that 
was then committed, and the origin of our present difficulty ; as 
far as this trade is concerned. " Those," said the honourable 
member for Taunton, " who propose this new plan, are com- 
pletely ruining the Silk manufacture of England. The moment 
this plan is promulgated, the great object of all who have capitals 
embarked in the manufacture will be, to disentangle those capi- 
tals ; and those who have no capital, except their labour, will be 
left to struggle for themselves, and probably to perish, for want 
of employment." 

Such, in 1824, were the gloomy forebodings of the honour- 
able member for Taunton. Experience has made me rather 
obdurate to all such prophecies; for so many are daily made by 
individuals, whose fears are excited, or who, when they suppose 
their particular interests to be at stake, attempt to excite fear in 
others, that I must have abandoned every measure which I have 
brought forw^ard for improving our Commercial Policy, had I 
allowed myself to be acted upon by such forebodings. 

Last year, for instance, I received representations from the 
Iron trade — day after day, and month after month : but, I could 
not share in their alarms. I must state this, however, with one 
exception. There exists in this country one considerable estab- 
lishment, in which iron is smelted by charcoal in great perfection, 
but at a heavy expense. This iron is held in equal estimation 
with the best from Sweden; but there was reason to apprehend, 
that it could not, under the reduced duty, maintain itself in com- 
petition with the latter. The establishment in question belongs 
to a most respectable and scientific gentleman, well known to 
many members of this House, — Dr. Ainslie. Having heard his 
statement, I told him that, although I could not alter a general 
measure to meet one particular case, I would endeavour to de- 
vise some other mode of relief, if he should be overwhelmed by 
the competition. 

And what does the House think has been the result 1 Sir, 
within the last fortnight, that respectable individual has sent me 
39* 



462 EFFECTS OF THE FREE TRADE SYSTEM 

word, through an honourable member of this House, not only 
that his fears have not been realized, but that my most sanguine 
hopes had been confirmed — that his trade, in fact, had in no de- 
gree suffered by those very measures which he apprehended 
would have been fatal to it; and that it was, upon the whole, in 
a very flourishing state. 

Let us now see how far the predictions of the honourable mem- 
ber for Taunton, and the honourable member for Coventry, have 
been realized. These predictions were that the Silk Trade would 
be annihilated in the course of the two years allowed to the manu- 
facturers to prepare for the change. 

The bill passed this House in the spring of 1824; and during 
the rest of that year, the Silk Trade went on flourishing and 
increasing in the face of this threatened annihilation. In the 
spring of 1825, there prevailed a degree of excitement — a spirit 
of speculation — an extension of demand in this manufacture — to 
a greater degree than ever had been witnessed, before, in almost 
any branch of trade. It was in 1825, that so many new factories 
were erected ; so many new mills set at work ; so many new 
looms occupied. The old mills were not sufficient : many new 
ones were raised ; the erection of each of which, I am assured, did 
not cost less than from 10,000/. to 15,000/.: and several of these 
new mills have not even yet been roofed in. 

Thus, at the very time when, to satisfy the prediction of the 
honourable member for Taunton, this trade should have been in 
a state of rapid decline, the manufacturers were building to an 
excess, that had never been equalled in the periods of their great- 
est prosperity. 

The honourable and learned member for Lincoln has alluded 
to the present condition of the town of Macclesfield. I know what 
misfortunes and bankruptcies have occurred there, and I feel the 
deepest and most undissembled sorrow for the sufferings of that 
population. I am aware of their distressed state at this moment. 
But I cannot help thinking, that the honourable and learned mem- 
ber, in stating their situation, should also have stated some of the 
circumstances which have aggravated, if not created, their 
present difficulties ; for certain it is, that the spirit of specula- 
tion has, in that town, been carried to the greatest extrava- 
gance. According to the last census, in 1821, the whole 
population of Macclesfield, amounted to 17,746 souls. Now, I 
will suppose that, between that year and the year 1825, it 
increased to 20,000. What then, in that year, was the demand 
for additional labour, in the Silk manufacture alone, of that town? 
I have seen, and many other gentlemen have no doubt seen, in a 
Macclesfield newspaper, of the 19th of February, 1825, the fol- 
lowing Advertisement: — •' To Overseers, Guardians of the Poor, 



ON THE SILK MANUFACTURE. 463 

and Families desirous of settling in Macclesfield. Wanted 
immediately, from four to five thousand persons," — [Loud cries 
of hear, hear !] — The House may well express their surprise ; but 
I beseech their attention to the description of persons required by 
this advertisement — " from seven to twenty years of age" — so 
that the Silk manufacturers were content to receive children of 
the tender age of only seven years — " to be employed in the 
throwing and manufacturing of silk. The great increase of the 
trade having caused a great scarcity of Workmen, it is suggested, 
that this is a most favourable opportunity for persons with large 
families, and Overseers who wish to put out children" — [children 
of seven years of age !] — " as apprentices, to ensure them a com- 
fortable livelihood. Application to be made, if by letter post paid, 
to the printer of this paper." 

Humanity is not the least remarkable part of this precious 
document; and the House will not fail to observe, how admirably 
the cruelty of confining children of seven years of age to labour 
in a Silk mill, for twelve or fifteen hours out of the four-and- 
twenty, is tempered, by the inducement to parents to provide for 
their families for life. What sort of provision that has been, the 
present wretched state of these helpless infants will best evince. 
And here I cannot help observing, that, at the very time such an 
invitation was sent forth to overseers and parents, by the owners 
of Silk mills, this House was very properly occupied in passing a 
bill to prevent the Employment of Children under nme years of 
age in cotton factories. 

Very soon after this Advertisement, and before the Mills were 
finished, in which these children were to be immured, there ap- 
peared, I have been assured, another Advertisement, nearly in the 
same exti-avagant style: — " Wanted io be built immediately, one 
thousand houses !" — doubtless, to contain the five thousand new 
inhabitants. 

Yet, all this took place in the year 1825 ; just one year, accord- 
ing to the honourable member for Taunton, before the Silk Trade 
was to expire for ever. I ask, then, what weight can be given 
to the predictions of those, who, in the face of these striking facts, 
continue to assert, that the Silk Trade of this country will be 
annihilated, before the end of the next twelve months? Can any 
man wonder, after such an enormous extent of speculation — after 
such inhuman efforts to induce so many destitute children to flock 
into the manufactories — after such an influx of population — can 
any man, I say, wonder — all branches of this trade being now in 
a stagnant state — at most of these newcomers being out of work 
at Macclesfield — or at the fact stated by the honourable and 
learned member for Lincoln — his hair almost standing on end 



464 EFFECTS OF THE FREE TRADE SYSTEM 

with horror- — "that eleven orders for the removal of as many 
paupers, had been made out in one week ?" 

Under ordinary circumstances, it could scarcely have been 
expected, that the Silk manufacture alone could have formed an 
exception to the general re-action which has followed over-trad- 
ing and speculation, in every other branch of commerce; but, 
under the circumstances of peculiar excitement, which I have 
now stated, it would, indeed, have been matter of surprise, had 
it escaped its full share of the common pressure. 

Sir, I feel that, upon this occasion, a heavy burden is imposed 
upon me. I feel that I have not only to defend myself from the 
attack of the honourable member for Lincoln, but to say some- 
thing in behalf of my right honourable colleagues ; — something 
in vindication of the House itself, for the course which they have 
pursued, in the adoption of the system of Commercial Policy 
which we recommended. 

As the whole of that system has been so vigorously attacked, 
I shall, I trust, be excused, if I touch, very briefly, upon the pro- 
ceedings of the last session of Parliament, — when, in furtherance 
of that system, and with the cordial concurrence of this House, 
I brought forward measures of a more general nature than the 
Silk Bill of the preceding session ; inasmuch as they went to 
effect an important, and more extensive, change in the Colonial, 
as well as in the Commercial Policy of the country. The Colonial 
part of the subject had not, I admit, been much pressed upon his 
Majesty's Government, either by representations in this House, or 
in discussion out of doors. But there are occasions in which it 
is the duty of a vigilant Government, instead of waiting for such 
pressure, to watch the signs of the times, and to accommodate 
their policy to those changes in the world, under the continued 
operation of which a blind adherence to our former system would 
no longer be either safe or expedient. Upon this principle, I shall 
be ready to vindicate the alterations, great as they are, in the 
policy of our Colonial Commerce, whenever those alterations 
may be called in question ; but as, hitherto, they have not been 
attacked in this House, and as they received the special approba- 
tion of the honourable member for Taunton, I shall now say no 
more upon that part of the subject. 

With respect to the alterations in our general Commercial 
system, however extensive in their application, what were the 
objects which they embraced ? They went to the removal of 
useless and inconvenient restrictions, to the doing away of pro- 
hibitions, and to the lowering of duties so excessive, as to be in 
fact prohibitory on the productions of other countries — restric- 
tions, prohibitions, and duties, which, without benefit, nay, highly 
mischievous to ourselves, have produced all the evil effects, and 



ON THE SILK MANUFACTURE. 465 

given rise, in other parts of the world, to the retaliatory efforts 
of foreign Governments, to put down the commerce of this coun- 
try. These were some of the bad consequences justly attributed 
to our exclusive system, by the honourable member lor Taunton 
and the merchants of London, in the speech and petition to which 
I have so often referred. 

And here I cannot but express my astonishment, that gentle- 
men (I am now speaking of persons out of doors) — who must be 
better informed — whose sincerity I Cannot doubt — but whose 
judgment, in this respect, seems to be most unaccountably per- 
verted, impute all the prevailing distress, as well as the derange- 
ment in the foreign exchanges, which preceded, and, in a great 
degree, produced that distress, to this lowering of excessive 
duties, and removal of unnecessary prohibitions. 

I have called for the production of a paper, which has not yet 
been printed, but which will, 1 hope, in the course of twenty-four 
hours, be in the hands of every honourable member — for the pur- 
pose 6f showing, what have been, during the last year, the actual 
imports of most of the principal articles, the duty on which has 
been most materially reduced. From this document, it will be 
manifest, that, although there has been some increase of import 
in most of those articles, in none has it been carried to any great 
extent. In manufactured goods, — Cottons, Woollens, Linens, 
&c., the increased import of the whole does not exceed a few 
thousand pounds. And yet, in opposition to this decisive evi- 
dence, there are those, I understand, who had dealings for mil- 
lions in foreign Loans, who, to facilitate the payments of those 
Loans, and other financial operations of foreign Governments, 
have sent million after million of our gold coin, drawn from the 
Bank of England, to the Bank of Paris, and who, in the face of 
such gigantic operations, the benefit of which to this country 
(whatever it may be to themselves) it is difficult to conceive — 
have been pleased to attribute the unfavourable state of the foreign 
Exchanges during the last summer and autumn, to the commer- 
cial measures adopted by Parliament in the preceding session. 

I am happy to say, that where the duties have been lowered 
upon articles of consumption, the result has hitherto fully borne 
me out in all my anticipations. In the six months which im- 
mediately followed the reduction of the duty on Coffee, the con- 
sumption of that article has nearly doubled, without occasioning 
any decrease in the consumption of Tea. In Wine, the duty 
upon which, we were told, ought not to have been reduced, with- 
out some reciprocity to the productions of this country, the con- 
sumption has also increased in an equal degree. And thus it will 
appear, that the same amount of revenue has been attained by 
31 



466 EFFECTS OF THE FREE TRADE SYSTEM 

the Government from diminished burthens ; thereby leaving the 
greater means of comfort and enjoyment to tiie people. 

I come nov^^ to the real jist of the Silk question ; and which — 
I say it with all due deference to the honourable mover and 
seconder of the present motion — has not been, in the slightest 
degree, touched upon by either of them. 

It is admitted on all hands, that Silk is an article which can be 
easily smuggled ; and that it is now smuggled, to a very con- 
siderable extent, in spite of all the preventive measures that have, 
from time to time, been adopted. Now, the object of the British 
manufacturer is, as much as possible, to shut out the competition 
of his foreign rival. If smuggling could be prevented, I would 
concede to him, that prohibition would be most effectual to this 
object ; but, if it cannot, what is the advantage of prohibition, 
over a protecting duty of 30 per cent. 1 I say, of 30 per cent., 
because I never yet conversed with a single merchant or manu- 
facturer, who did not admit, that if a higher protecting duty were 
imposed, the supply of foreign Silk goods would be thrown into 
the hands of the smuggler. 

The question, then, looking at it practically, is this : — In what 
degree is Prohibition better, as against smuggling, than a well- 
regulated duty 1 — by which I mean, a duty sufficient to protect 
the British manufacturer, without being ' so high as to afford a 
premium to the smuggler. 

In the first place, it cannot be denied, that the feelings of man- 
kind are more likely to restrain them from committing a fraud, 
than from violating a Custom-House prohibition. I am sure it 
will be conceded to me, that many honourable persons, who 
would not, for any temptation, be parties to a contrivance to 
evade a tax, and thereby to rob the public revenue, would feel 
very little scruple, in wearing an article that is absolutely pro- 
hibited, and the introduction of which is not in opposition to any 
moral duty. 

So far, then, the argument, in support of the assertion, that a 
prohibitory law is the best check upon smuggling, makes directly 
the other way, and is in favour of protecting duties. 

But the great, indeed the only, argument in favour of Prohibi- 
tion, in preference to a protecting duty, is this — that after the for- 
bidden goods have been landed in this country, and when they 
are in the possession of individuals, even for their own use or 
consumption, you may follow them into private dwellings, nay, 
into the very pockets of the wearers, and seize them upon their 
persons, in the King's name, at the bare suggestion of any com- 
mon informer. 

To what does this power of seizing and examining all who 
may be suspected of possessing prohibited articles amount ? Sir, 



ON THE SILK MANUFACTURE. 467 

.t amounts to this — that if any man — no matter what may be his 
rank, be he the humblest peasant, or the highest peer in the realm 
— be suspected of wearing, or possessing, a Silk handkerchief of 
foreign manufacture, he is liable to have it taken trom his neck or 
his pocket, and to have his house ransacked, from the garret to 
the cellar, in quest of contraband articles. If, without such a 
subsidiary regulation as this — a regulation which encourages the 
worst passions, engenders the most appalling perjury and crime, 
and which opens so wide a door either to fraud and collusion, or 
to intimidation and personal violence — prohibition cannot be sus- 
tained ; then, Sir, I say, in preference to such a system, let us, in 
God's name, have a well-regulated duty. 

And here I hope I may be permitted to digress for one moment, 
to ask, how a great constitutional lawyer — a staunch advocate 
for the popular character of our constitution — a zealous stickler 
for the inalienable rights of the people — a watchful guardian of 
the sanctity of an Englishman's private abode ; — how he could so 
entirely discipline and subdue his warm and boasted feelings for 
the Liberty of the Subject, as to pour forth the declamatory 
harangue, which we have heard this night from the learned mem- 
ber for Lincoln, in favour of this system of prohibition? 

But, even with the aid of this power of search and seizure, is 
prohibition an efTectual remedy against Smuggling? I have 
lately taken some pains to ascertain the quantity of smuggled 
Silks that has been seized, inland, throughout the kingdom, during 
the last ten years: and I find, that the whole does not exceed 
5,000/. a year. I have endeavoured, on the other hand, to get an 
account of the quantity of Silk goods actually smuggled into this 
country. Any estimate of this quantity must be very vague; but, 
I have been given to understand, that the value of such goods as 
are regularly entered at the Custom-Houses of France, for expor- 
tation to this country, is from 100,000/. to 150,000/. a year: and 
this, of course, is exclusive of the far greater supply which is 
poured in, through all the channels of smuggling, without being 
subjected to any entry. In fact, to such an extent is this illicit 
trade carried, that there is scarcely a haberdasher's shop, in the 
smallest village of the kingdom, in which prohibited Silks are 
not sold ; and that in the face of day, and to a very considerable 
extent. 

The honourable member for Coventry has mentioned the Silk 
goods from India, as those against which any thing but prohibi- 
tion would prove an unavailing protection. Now, in my opinion, 
it is scarcely possible to conceive a stronger case, than those 
very silks furnish, against the honourable member's own argu- 
ment. I believe it is universally known, that a large quantity of 
Bandana handkerchiefs are sold, every year, for exportation, by 



468 EFFECTS OF THE FREE TRADE SYSTEM 

the East India Company. But, does any gentleman suppose, that 
these Bandanas are sent to the continent, for the purpose of 
remaining there? No such thing! They are sold, at the Com- 
pany's Sales, to the number of 800,000 or a million of handker- 
chiefs each year, at the rate of about four shillings each. They 
are immediately shipped off for Hamburgh, Antwerp, Rotterdam, 
Ostend, or Guernsey — and from thence, they nearly all, illicitly, 
find their way back to this country. 

Mark, then, the effect of this beautiful system — this system, so 
lauded by the learned member for Lincoln. These Bandanas, 
which had previously been sold, for exportation, at four shillings, 
are finally distributed, in retail, to the people of England, at the 
rate of about eight shillings each ; and the result of their prohibi- 
tion is to levy upon the consumer a tax, and to give to those who 
live by the evasion of your law a bounty of four shillings upon 
each handkerchief sold in this country. 

That nearly all the Bandanas sold for exportation are re-im- 
ported and used in this country, is a fact not denied, even by 
those who are now most clamorous for prohibition. In a printed 
Letter from a manufacturer of Macclesfield to the Marquis of 
Lansdowne, I find the following anecdote : — " It is the custom, in 
the parterres of the theatres of France, to secure the place, by 
tying a pocket handkerchief on the seat. I had the curiosity at 
the Theatre Francois, to notice the appearance of them ; and, out 
of twenty-five, immediately around me, there was not one Silk 
handkerchief." I should have little doubt, if a similar custom 
prevailed in the pit of our theatre, that this accurate observer 
would find most of the seats decorated with handkerchiefs of 
prohibited Silk. Nay, Sir, if strangers were, at this moment, 
ordered to withdraw from the gallery; and every member were 
called upon (of course in secret committee) to produce his hand- 
kerchief, with the understanding, that those who had not pro- 
hibited handkerchiefs in their pockets were obliged to inform 
against those who had — I am inclined to believe, that the inform- 
ers would be in a small majority. Upon every information laid 
under this prohibitory law, the chances are, that the informer and 
the constable have Bandanas round their necks, and that the 
magistrate, who hears the charge, has one in his pocket! 

Upon the motion of this evening, then, we have to make our 
choice between a moderate protecting duty, which can be col- 
lected, and is likely to be available ; and the going back to the 
system of Prohibition, which I have shown to be productive of 
such mischievous consequences. 

But, since the repeal of the old law, a further difficulty has 
occurred in respect to prohibition. Two years ago, when a piece 
of silk was seized as foreign, the British manufacturer could, upon 



ON THE SILK MANUFACTURE, 469 

Inspecting it, at once say, " I know, and can prove, that this is not 
the manufacture of this kingdom." If asked, "• what is your 
proof?" he would reply, "the superior quality and workmanship 
of the article: it is quite impossible, that any thing equal to it 
should have been manufactured in England : it wants that stamp 
of slovenliness and indiflerence to improvement, which is the sure 
characteristic of all silk goods made at home." This is a very 
natural answer for Monopoly to make ; but it comes with a bad 
grace from a British manufacturer. 

But, it may be asked, if excellence of fabric was, at that time, 
the proof that the article was not British, why is it not so still ? I 
shall give the best answer to this question, by stating what has 
recently occurred. 

Soon after the alteration of our Law, an extensive French 
manufacturer removed from Lyons to this country, lie brought 
with him his looms and his patterns. Under his management and 
superintendence, two Establishments were formed, one in Spital- 
Fields, the other at JManchester. At both of these places he set 
weavers to work; fully satisfied that a duty of 30 per cent, would 
ajfford him sufficient protection. His improved methods — with 
sorrow I state it — excited the jealousy, and drew down upon him 
the persecution, of the English manufacturers. They charged 
this industrious foreigner, boldly, and rashly, and — as in the end 
it was proved — most unjustly, with carrying on his trade here, 
merely as a cloak to cover the smuggling of foreign manufactured 
goods. In their mortification at his success, they even went the 
length of charging my honourable friend, the Secretary of the 
Treasury, and the whole Board of Customs, with being cognizant 
of the fact, and parties to this nefarious scheme for ruining the 
Silk Trade of England. This accusation was not merely insinuated 
in whispers: it was contained in a published report, inserted in 
the newspapers, and thus conveyed from one end of the kingdom 
to the other. 

This was not to be endured. The Treasury determined to sift 
the matter to the bottom. They knew that, neither at the Board 
of Treasury, nor at the Board of Customs, could any countenance 
or fiicility have been given to smuggling; but, they thought it not 
impossible, that this French house might have been guiltv of the 
irregularities imputed to them, and that these irregularities might 
have been connived at by some of the inferior otiicers. The ac- 
cusers, therefore, were called upon to substantiate their charge, 
and were distinctly told, that the inquiry should be directed in 
w^hatever mode they might point out as most eflx3ctual. They 
said, the clearest proof would probably be found in the Books of 
the party accused, if they could be got at. The Books could not, 
certainlv, be inspected without his consent. Did he hesitate on 
40 



470 EFFECTS OF THE FREE TRADE SYSTEM 

this point? So far from it, that his immediate reply was, — "You 
are welcome to inspect all the Books of our house; and, that 
there may be no suspicion of garbling or concealment, let an 
officer go with me instanter, and they shall all be brought here" 
(to the Treasury) " in a hackney coach." 

This was accordingly done. His books were subjected to a 
rigid examination. Every transaction connected with his business 
was found regular — the names of the weavers employed by him, 
the work which they had in hand, and their places of residence, 
were all duly entered. Taking with them a plan of Spital-Fields, 
and without the possibility of previous notice or concert, proper 
persons went round to the particular houses, which these books 
had pointed out; and, in every instance, they found the names of 
the men at work, and the goods upon which they were working, 
to correspond with the entries in the books. 

All this was most satisfactory to the Treasury, and the Customs. 
But, the accusers persevered in their charge. They insisted, that 
the whole was a concerted plot ; and that many pieces of silk in 
the warehouse of this foreigner, which he asserted that he had 
manufactured here, were, in truth, the productions of France. 

The Treasury, in consequence, resolved to sift the matter still 
farther; and again, it was left to the accusers to point out the 
mode. In order to prosecute the inquiry, they selected from their 
own body, the person whom they considered the most skilled in 
the knowledge requisite for the detection of such articles as might 
be contraband. And what, towards him, was the conduct of the 
party accused? "Go to my warehouse," said the Frenchman, 
"turn over all my goods; select from among them whatever 
pieces you please : and, on the proof of their being of English or 
of French manufacture, let my guilt or innocence be finally 
established." 

The offer was accepted. The person employed by the British 
manufacturers turned, over and over, several hundred pieces of 
Silk; and at length, after the whole ordeal was passed, the Board 
of Customs made known the result, in an official Report which 
they transmitted to the Treasury. That Report I hold in my 
hand. What is the substance of it? Why, that thirty-seven pieces 
had been selected by this agent of the accusers, as being, beyond 
all doubt, of French manufacture. What followed ? These thirty- 
seven pieces were seized, and the Frenchman was put upon his 
proof, that they were made in this country. How did he prove 
it? By producing, one after another, the very men, by whom 
every one of these thirty-seven pieces had been made; who 
proved, upon their oaths, in the most irrefragable manner, that 
every inch of these goods had been woven by themselves — 



ON T^E SILK MANUFACTURE. 471 

Where 1 Not at Lyons — not in France — but in Spital-Fields and 
Manchester ! 

I have stated these facts with feelings, I own, bordering on 
disgust. I cannot but think it humiHating, if not discreditable, to 
my countrymen, that an unprotected foreigner should have been 
maligned and persecuted, instead of receiving countenance and 
encouragement, for having transported his capital and skill to this 
country, and for being the first to set the example of great and 
successful improvement in our silk manufacture. 

But how does this detail, into which I have entered, bear upon 
the present argument ? It shows, in the clearest manner, that if 
you continue to seize Silk goods in private houses, in shops, or 
upon individuals, you have now lost your former test, by which 
you could prove them to be of foreign origin. The most expert 
judge of such articles, it is now legally proved, cannot discrimi- 
nate between the British and the foreign manufacture. Prohibi- 
tion, therefore, has lost its only recommendation : it retains no 
advantage over a well-regulated duty. 

But appeals have been made to our compassion; and our feel- 
ings have been alarmed by the statement, that above 500,000 
individuals are at present engaged in the Silk trade, and that ruin 
must inevitably be entailed on this large and meritorious class of 
the community, if the old law be not restored. 

Now, supposing the number of persons employed in the Silk 
manufactory to amount to 500,000, — their wages, I assume, can- 
not be less, one with another, than IO5. a week for each person. 
I have been told, indeed, that a considerable portion of this num- 
ber are children, some of whom do not receive more than Is. 6d. 
a week ; and for this pittance, the hours of work in the mills, 
when the trade was brisk, I have been assured, were, from five 
in the morning, till eight or nine at night. 

If this be so, let us not talk of the difference in the expense of 
labour, between this country and France. Will it be said, that a 
French child cannot earn in the Silk manufactory, one shilling 
and sixpence a week ; and that, without working from fourteen 
to fifteen hours out of the four-and-twenty ? Certainly not. Suppos- 
ing, however, the average earnings of these 500,000 persons — 
(an exaggerated number, I am convinced) — to be ten shillings a 
week, thirteen millions of money would then be the annual amount 
of wages alone in this manufacture. To this are to be added the 
interest on capital, and the price of the raw material : so that the 
value of the goods sold could not be less than eighteen or twenty 
millions sterling. This, however, I consider too high a calcula- 
tion. The Lords' Report estimates the whole amount at only ten 
millions; but, allowing for increased consumption since 1821, it 



472 EFFECTS OF THE FREE TRADE SYSTEM 

may, perhaps, be fairly rated at twelve or fourteen millions, ex- 
clusive of the quantity smuggled in from the continent. 

If, then, fourteen millions of Silk goods are about the annual 
consumption of this kingdom, what would hapjien, if, according 
to the predictions of the honourable member for Taunton, the 
British manufacture should be annihilated after next July? We 
should not, I take it for granted, consume a less quantity of Silk 
goods: the only change would be, that we should have them, as it is 
alleged, of a better quality, and at a less price. But, all the goods 
so consumed would, in this supposition, have paid a duty of thirty 
per cent, on their importation ; and the produce of that duty, con- 
sequently, would exceed four millions sterling. This large sum 
would be levied, without, in the smallest degree, abridging the 
comfort or enjoyment of any other class of the community. It 
would bring with it no increase of burthen upon the consumer of 
Silk goods, and consequently no diminution of his means of con- 
suming other articles. It would simply be the premium of mono- 
poly transferred to the Exchequer ; and the capital, for which this 
monopoly was created, would be set free, to give employment to 
other branches of industry. 

Such, certainly, would be the ultimate result, if the speculative 
fears of the Silk Trade should be realized. But, of such an issue, 
lam persuaded, there is no risk. The whole consumption of Silk 
goods in France is not equal to the consumption in England. 
Now, supposing, when the Bill comes into operation, there should 
be a greatly increased demand in this country for French Silks 
— this new and additional demand would produce a corresponding 
advance in the price of the goods, and in the wages of labour, in 
France. To a certain extent, there may be such a demand, 
especially at the first opening of the Trade ; but I am convinced 
that, with the attention to economy which competition excites, 
with our improved machinery, our industry and ingenuity, and 
perhaps with the lowered prices of labour and the means of sub- 
sistence — a protecting duty of 30 per cent, will be found to be 
sufficient. 

The House is called upon, by the motion of the honourable 
member for Coventry, " to inquire." Has it never inquired before? 
Has the House of Lords entered into no investigation of the sub- 
ject? And did not that investigation take place at a period, when 
taxation and prices were very considerably higher than at present? 
The country, too, at that time, was labouring under much dis- 
tress ; and the Silk manufacture was suflering its full share of the 
existing difficulties. Was that inquiry loosely conducted ? Cer- 
tainly not. A noble Marquis* presided over the labours of the 

* The Marquis of Lansdowne. 



ON THE SILK MANUFACTURE. 473 

Committee, alike distinguisiied for talent, for diligence, and for 
the soundness of his views, on all subjects connected with the 
Commercial policy of the country. It was the opinion of that 
Committee, after taking a mass of evidence on oath, that a duty 
of fifteen per cent. wouM be an adequate protection, instead of a 
duty of double that amount, under which the experiment is now 
to be made. 

I have stated, too much at length, I fear, the grounds on which 
it appears to me, that this House ought not to entertain the present 
motion. This statement, I feel, must have appeared unnecessary, 
to those who think with me on the subject of our Commercial 
Policy ; and I dare not hope, that it has made much impression 
on those who are the declared advocates of the restrictive system; 
— those who belong to the same school of political economy as 
the honourable baronet, the member for Staffordshire. In his 
enmity to all improvement, he told us, the other evening, that the 
ministers of the present day were only fit to form a Council for 
the Island of Laputa. Since this intimation of the honourable 
Baronet's wish to see us banished to that island, I have turned in 
my own mind what recommendation I could take with me to that 
land of philosophers. Not a Letter from the honourable Baronet, 
I can assure him ; for he has given us to understand, that in 
mind, at least, he belongs to the Brobdignagian age of this coun- 
try. But, I think I have hit upon that which would infallibly 
make my fortune at Laputa ; — I will tell the honourable Baronet 
what it is. 

At the time of the great Bullion controversy in 1810-1811, 
the main question in dispute turned upon, what was the real 
Standard of our money. We wild theorists said, as our simple 
forefathers had always said before us, that the standard was, and 
could be, nothing else than the weight and fineness of the gold or 
silver in the coin of the realm, according to the commands of the 
Sovereign, specified in the indentures of the Mint. Had this de- 
finition been admitted by the practical men, there would at once 
have been an end of the contested point — whether our then cur- 
rency was or was not depreciated ? But, for that very reason, 
this definition was denied, by all who maintained the negative of 
that question. More than a hundred pamphlets were published 
on that side, containing as many different definitions of the stand- 
ard. Fifteen of these definitions, most in vogue at the time, I 
have since retained, as a curiosity to laugh at : but they may now, 
perhaps, be turned to a more valuable purpose. Of that number 
I only recollect three at this moment. The first defined the 
standard to be, " the abstract pound sterling." This had great 
success, till another practical writer proved, that the standard 
was the " ideal unit." These two practical standards were, how- 
40* 3K 



474 EFFECTS OF THE FREE TRADE SYSTEM 

ever, finally superseded by a third, of which the definition was, 
" a sense of value in currency (paper), in reference to commo- 
dities." This last standard was at once so perfectly tangible, and 
clearly intqjligible, that I consider it as the parent of the famous 
Resolution of this House, by which the question was to be finally 
set at rest. 

Now, if I should take with me to Laputa, this little, but in- 
valuable, collection of Definitions, I have not the slightest doubt; 
that my pretensions to have the whole monetary system of that 
island placed under my direction — to be Master of the Mint — 
Governor of the Bank — and Superintendent of all the Country 
Banks — would be immediately and generally admitted. It is true, 
we have had no authentic account of the progi'ess of political 
science, in that celebrated island, for about a century past ; but, 
it is scarcely to be imagined, that it can have been so rapid, as 
to enable their greatest philosophers to challenge the preeminence 
of these Definitions, on the score of abstraction, metaphysics, and 
absurdity: and, at any rate, if the philosophers should cabal 
against me, the practical men could not fail to be on my side. 

I am not aware. Sir, that I have omitted to notice any of the 
objections, which have been urged against the important changes, 
lately made by Parliament in our Commercial System. That 
these changes are extensive, as well as important, 1 readily admit. 
Whether they will work ultimately, for good, or for evil, it be- 
comes not faUible man to pronounce an over-peremptory opinion. 
That the expectation of those who proposed them was, that they 
would work for good, no man will do us the injustice to deny. 
That, up to this hour, I am fortified in that expectation, by the 
deductions of reason in my own mind, by the authority of all 
who are most competent to form a dispassionate opinion upon 
the subject, by the beneficial result of every thing which has 
hitherto been done, for giving greater freedom to Commerce in 
this country, and by the experience of the opposite effect which 
vexatious and unnecessary restraints are daily producing in other 
countries, — is what I can most solemnly affirm. 

I make this declaration, I can assure you, Sir, in all sincerity 
of heart, and, as far as I know myself, without any mixture of 
false pride, or any mistaken feeling of obstinate adherence to 
consistency. I am the more anxious to make this declaration, in 
the face of the House, and of the world, because, of late, I have 
been assailed, and distressed, I will own, by ungenerous appeals 
to my feelings, calling upon me to commune with my conscience 
and my God, and to say, whether I am under no visitations of 
compunction and remorse, at having thrown so many persons out 
of bread, in the trial of a rash experiment, and in the pursuit of 
a hollow theory. Good God ! Sir, that man must have a heart 



ON THE SILK MANUFACTURE. 475 

of stone, who can witness without sympathy and the greatest 
pain, the distress, which now, unfortunately, exists in most of our 
other great manufactures, as well as in that of Silk. But, whilst 
I hope that I am not wanting in the duties and feelings of a man 
— I have also a duty to perform as a Minister. If immediate 
relief be, in a great degree, out of our power, it the more be- 
comes us, as the guardians of all that is most valuable in civilized 
society, to trace the causes of the present calamities, and to pre- 
vent, if possible, their recurrence. It is on this principle, that I 
am anxious to put an end to a System of Currency, which leads 
to ruinous fluctuations in trade, and in the price of all commodi- 
ties ; which, whether in excitement or depression, is alike under- 
mining the sober habits, and the moral feelings, of the community; 
which confounds honest industry with unprincipled gambling; 
which injures the poor man in the earnings of his labour, and 
takes from the rich man all security in his property — a System, 
which creates delusive hopes, only to terminate in aggravated 
disappointments — of which every succeeding convulsion must^ 
add to our inability to bear it — and of which the inevitable ten- 
dency is, to drive capital and industr}^ to other countries; not in 
Europe only, but even across the Atlantic. The growing dread 
of instability here, the growing assurance of increased stability 
in those countries, would ultimately produce this transfer; and, 
with it, the further transfer of the rank and power, which Eng- 
land has hitherto maintained among the nations of the world. 

If I have ventured to intrude upon the House by any allusion 
to my personal feelings, they will, I trust, make some allowance 
for the provocation which I have received. This is the only 
place in which I can properly reply to the unmanly appeals which 
have been made to me through other channels. Such appeals, 
however painful to receive, have no influence on my conduct: 
neither can they detract from the sanguine hope which I entertain 
of better prospects and increased happiness for my country. I 
hailed with great delight, the other evening, the assurance of the 
right honourable member for Knaresborough,* that he saw no- 
thing in our present difficulties to create despondency or alarm. 
In this sentiment I most entirely concur. The existing pressure 
may, for a short time, bear heavily upon the springs of our pros- 
perity; but if we pursue a temperate course, there is nothing to 
fear, and every thing to hope, for our future progress. With 
confidence I cling to that cheering hope ; and, without looking 
forward to a long life, I trust that I shall witness its realization. 

Whether in a public station, or in retirement, my greatest 
happiness will be, to feel assured, that the power and resources 



* Mr. Tierney. 



476 EFFECTS OF THE FREB TRADE SYSTEM. 

of this country have been increased, by those measures of Com- 
mercial Policy, which it has fallen to my lot to submit to ParUa- 
ment. 

That such will be their ultimate result is my firm and con- 
scientious conviction; and, in that conviction, I claim for those 
measures the continued support of this House. 

On Mr. Huskisson's resuming his seat, Mr. Baring rose ; but the cries of 
" adjournment" and " go on" were so general, that the honourable gentleman 
seemed unwilling to proceed. Upon which, Mr. Canning observed, that if 
the question before the House were confined merely to the motion of the 
honourable member for Coventry, there could be no difficulty in disposing of 
it on that night; but as the eloquent and powerful speech of his right honour- 
able friend had — most happily for the country — involved the whole of the 
principles on which the commerce of the country was to be conducted in 
future, he would move that the debate be adjourned till to-morrow. An 
adjournment accordingly took place to the 24th ; when the motion was sup- 
ported by Mr. Canning, Mr. Baring, Mr. Davenport, Mr. Dickenson, Mr. Peter 
Moore, and Mr. Egerton, and opposed by Mr. Grant, Mr. Warre, Mr. Palmer, 
and Lord John Russell. 

The House divided : For Mr. Ellice's motion, 40. Against it, 222. Ma- 
jority, 182. 



( 477 ) 



EXPOSITION OF THE STATE OF THE NAVIGATION 
OF THE UNITED KINGDOM. 

MAY 12th, 1826. 

A Petition from the Ship Owners of North Shields having been presented 
to the House, on the 27th of April, complaining of the Alterations recently 
made in the Navigation Laws, Mr. Huskisson took occasion to give notice, 
that he would, on an early day, enter into an Exposition of the present State 
of the Navigation of the United Kingdom. Accordingly, this day, 

Mr. Huskisson rose, and spoke in substance, as follows : — 
Sir : — In the course of the last session of Parliament, the hon- 
ourable member for Grampound* frequently took occasion to 
indulge himself in certain oracular denunciations, foreboding the 
ruin of this country, as the result of the Commercial and Foreign 
Policy of the Government. At that period, the commerce of the 
country, it must be allowed, was at least sufficiently active, and 
the demand for mercantile Shipping greater, perhaps, than had 
ever before occurred. Whether from these circumstances, or 
from the solemn tone of mystery in which the honourable mem- 
ber's denunciations were delivered, they did not, at the time, 
make any considerable impression, either in this House or out of 
doors. 

Recently, however, a variety of Petitions have been presented 
to Parliament, from persons connected with the Port of London, 
and with several other commercial towns, expressing their appre- 
hensions, that the Shipping Interest is in a state of decay, and 
that the foundations of the prosperity and security of the country 
are, in consequence, likely to be undermined. When such im- 
pressions have been created in quarters, where the authority of 
the Petitioners, so far as their observations go, is entitled to the 
greatest consideration, I trust that no apology will be requisite, 
lor claiming the attention of the House — or at least of that por- 
tion of it who are now present — to a subject of such vital import- 
ance to the maritime power and greatness of. the country. I am 
well aware of the reluctance which honourable gentlemen must 
feel to a statement, from its nature necessarily dry and tedious ; 

* Mr. Robertson. 



478 STATE OF THE NAVIGATION 

but, I am also aware, that the matter involved in it is of too much 
importance not to demand the deepest attention ; for, if the fears 
expressed in the petitions on the table of the House be well founded, 
it is scarcely necessary for me to say that the sooner an inquiry 
takes place the better. 

The House, Sir, is aware, that our Navigation Laws have a 
two-fold object. First, to create and maintain in this country a 
great commercial Marine ; and secondly (an object not less im- 
portant in the eyes of statesmen), to prevent any other nation 
from engrossing too large a portion of the navigation of the rest 
of the world. 

Acting upon this system, the general rule of our policy has been 
to limit as much as possible, the right of importing the productions 
of foreign countries into this country, either to ships of the pro- 
ducing country, or to British ships. 

There certainly have been exceptions to this general rule, but 
it is the broad principle upon which the navigation system of this 
country was founded ; and it is obvious, that the motives for 
adopting that system were, first, that such portion of the carry- 
ing trade of foreign countries as does not devolve to British ship- 
ping should be divided, as equally as possible, amongst the other 
maritime states, and not engrossed by any one of them in par- 
ticular; and secondly, that countries entertaining relations of 
commerce with this country, and not possessing shipping of their 
own, should export their produce to England in British ships only, 
instead of employing the vessels of any third power. 

But, when I state that the first object of our Navigation System 
was to create and uphold a great commercial marine, I think I 
may add, without fear of contradiction, that that object could not 
have been effected solely by regulations, restrictions, or prohibi- 
tions, however judiciously devised. The only true and durable 
foundation of a large commercial marine is to be laid in the 
means of aflfording to it beneficial employment. Without such 
employment, without, in short, extensive commerce, and great 
capital, to sustain and invigorate that commerce, no laws, merely 
protective, will avail. Whatever, therefore, contributes to extend 
the general commerce of the country must, incidentally, I may 
almost say directly, contribute also to improve and extend its 
navigation. These two great elements of our power and wealth 
are, of necessity, closely and intimately connected. I do not 
mean to say that their interests are always identified. I know 
they are not so. I know full well, that every thing which inter- 
feres with the freedom of commerce is more or less disadvantage- 
ous to the capitals which are employed in it. I am ready to ad- 
mit, as consistent with this general principle, that the regulations 
of our Navigation System, however salutary they may be, must. 



OF THE UNITED KINGDOM. 479 

more or less, act as a restraint on that freedom of commercial 
pursuit, which it is desirable should be open to those who have 
capital to employ. I am, however, at the same time, bound to 
say, that those regulations are founded on the first and paramount 
law of every state, the highest ground of political necessity, the 
necessity of providing for our own safety and defence ; the 
necessity of being prepared to afford security to our numerous 
colonial possessions scattered throughout all the seas of the world; 
the necessity of protecting the different branches of our widely 
spread commerce, against all the risks attendant on a state of 
war ; and, lastly, the necessity of preserving our ascendancy on 
the ocean, and thereby sustaining the high station in the rank of 
nations, which that ascendancy, more than any other circum- 
stance, has given to this country. 

Entertaining these opinions, I am as ready as any man can 
possibly be, to say that it is our duty, on all occasions, to look to 
the peculiar nature of this State necessity ; — and that, whenever 
the interests of commerce and navigation cannot be reconciled, 
the feeling which ought to be uppermost in our minds should be, 
— (I, Sir, have no hesitation in stating it to be my feeling) — that 
the interests of Commerce, in all such instances, ought to give 
way, and those of navigation to have the preference. 

I trust that I have, in this brief statement, now placed myself 
fairly before the House. And, if the measures, recently adopted 
by his Majesty's Government, have laid this country open to the 
danger, with which, according to some, it is threatened, certainly 
I have imposed on myself no light task, in attempting to vindi- 
cate and defend those measures. 

I begin with laying it down as a general position, that, in look- 
ing to the interest of the Ship-owner, we ought not to cramp 
commerce beyond the degree which state necessity requires for 
the protection of our navigation. I say that, apart from the con- 
siderations upon which the Navigation Laws were founded, we 
are bound not to depress one branch of industry, in order to give 
undue encouragement to another. 

The questions, therefore, which we have to consider, are these — 

First ; whether the Alterations which have been made in the 
system of our Navigation Laws have, or have not, exposed the 
great public interests, for the support of which that system was 
established, to jeopardy and hazard ? 

Secondly; whether those alterations are such as to have placed 
any particular branches of the Shipping interest of the country 
in a situation of difficulty, such as to entitle them to specific con- 
sideration ? 

Thirdly; whether, in the alterations which have been adopted, 
his Majesty's Government have been actuated by a mere gratui- 



480 STATE OF THE NAVIGATION 

tous desire to make experiments, and to try the effect of innova- 
tion; or whetiier those alterations, even if attended with some 
inconvenience to particular interests, were not called for by cir- 
cumstances, in order to obviate greater inconvenience, which 
might have arisen to the general interest, if we had rigidly per- 
sisted in the course which we formerly pursued ? 

Now, Sir, before I join issue with those who call in question 
the necessity or expediency of the alterations which have been 
made in the system of our navigation laws, the House will, per- 
haps, permit me shortly to recall to their recollection the principal 
outlines of that system ; — a course which is necessary, in order 
to mark more distinctly the alterations which have been made 
in it. 

The Great Charter of the Navigation System of this country 
is the act of the twelfth of Charles the Second. The different 
modes which that act provided for the encouragement of ship- 
ping, may be arranged under the five following heads : — 

First, the Fisheries. The ocean is a common field, alike open 
to all the people of the earth. Its productions belong to no par- 
ticular nation. It was, therefore, our interest to take care that so 
much of those productions as might be wanted for the consump- 
tion of Great Britain, should be exclusively procured by British 
industry, and imported in British ships. This is so simple and 
reasonable a rule, that, in this part of our navigation system, no 
alteration whatever has been made ; nor do I believe that any 
will ever be contemplated. 

The second object which the Navigation Laws had in view 
was to give, to the shipping of this cbuntry, employment in what 
is called the Coasting Trade, When those laws were first pass- 
ed, that trade was confined to England only, but, since we have 
become legislatively united with Scotland and with Ireland, it has 
embraced the whole of the British Islands. In this important 
part of our policy also there appears to be no motive for altera- 
tion. I shall, therefore, dismiss it with a single observation. The 
law, in this respect, remains unchanged, and will remain un- 
changed, so long as we have a desire to maintain a great com- 
mercial marine. 

The third object of our Navigation System was the European 
Trade. The rule laid down, with regard to that trade, was — 
that the ships of the other states of Europe were, to be at liberty 
to bring, from any port in Europe, any article of European pro- 
duction, with the exception of certain articles, since known in 
trade by the name of the " enumerated articles." They amount 
in number to twenty-eight, and include those commodities which, 
being of the most bulky nature, employ the greatest quantity of 
shipping. With respect to these " enumerated articles," the ex- 



OF THE UNITED KINGDOM. 481 

ception was this — that they should not be brought to our ports in 
any other than British ships, or ships of tfie country in which 
they were produced, proceeding directly from such country to 
this. This was the general state of the law, in respect to Euro- 
pean Conimerce, from the time of its enactment, in the twelfth 
of Charles the Second, down to a recent period. Its provisions, 
however, were more rigorous and exclusive towards Holland and 
the Low Countries. The regulations of that period were not 
framed merely for the preservation and encouragement of our 
own commerce, but also to weaken the powerful marine of Hol- 
land. Guided by this policy, our ancestors applied more severe 
measures towards the Dutch, than they thought necessary towards 
any other nation. In this spirit it was that they prohibited the 
importation, generally, of the productions of the other countries 
of Europe from Holland ; instead of confining that prohibition to 
the twenty-eight enumerated articles. 

The fourth object of our Navigation System was to regulate 
our commerce with Asia, Africa, and America. The rule of law 
on this head was, that no article, the produce of either of those 
three quarters of the globe, should be allowed to be brought into 
an English port, except in a British ship. 

The fifth and last part of the System of our Navigation Laws 
related to our Colonies. The principle on which we acted to- 
wards those Colonies was strictly to confine them, in all matters 
of trade, to an intercourse with the Mother Country. They were 
not allowed to dispose of any of their produce, otherwise than 
by sending it in British vessels to this country. They were 
equally restricted from receiving any articles necessary for their 
consumption, except from this country, and in British bottoms. 

This, I apprehend, is a fair summary of the main points of 
encouragement to the Shipping Interest of Great Britain, and of 
repression of the shipping of other states, aimed at by our Navi- 
gation laws, as those laws existed from the twelfth of Charles 
the Second down to the year 1783. In mentioning this latter 
period, I advert to it now as the commencement of that mighty 
change in the state of the world, the foundation of which had 
been then laid in the progress, and unfortunate issue, of the 
American war. But, before I state what that change has been, 
so far as relates to Navigation and Commerce, I shall, perhaps, 
be permitted briefly to notice some of the circumstances which 
had prepared the way for this calamitous contest : — the result of 
which, as I shall show presently, rendered the revision of our 
navigation system a matter no longer of choice but of necessity; 
— a result, which, in its consequences, in less than half a century, 
has dragged after it nearly the whole colonial system of the Old 
World. 

41 3L 



482 STATE OF THE NAVIGATION 

Sir, the war which began in the year 1756, commonly called 
the Seven Years' War, was, strictly speaking, so far as relates 
to this country and to the Bourbon governments of France and 
Spain, a war for colonial privileges, colonial claims, and colonial 
ascendency. In the course of that war, British skill and British 
valour placed in the hands of this country Quebec and the Ha- 
vannah. By the capture of these fortresses. Great Britain be- 
came mistress of the colonial destinies of the Western world. 
What use we made of our successes in that quarter, I will not 
now stop to inquire. 

But if the proceedings of the Government of this country, after 
the peace of 1763, be closely examined, we shall find, that many 
of the causes which, ten years afterwards, led to the unfortunate 
rupture with our then colonies, now the United States of America, 
may be traced to our unseasonable attempts to enforce, in their 
most rigid and exclusive application, our Colonial and Navigation 
System. Every complaint, every petition, every remonstrance, 
against the oppressive tendency, and vexatious consequences, of 
that system, on the part of the inhabitants of New England, — 
every temperate effort made by them to obtain some slight relaxa- 
tion of the trammels that shackled their disposition to engage in 
commercial enterprize, — were only met, on the part of the British 
Government, by a constant succession of new laws, enforcing 
still more restrictive regulations, framed in a spirit of still more 
vexatious interference. One instance of the character of that 
legislation will be sufficient; and I give it, as a slight specimen 
of the commercial jealousy which prevailed in our Councils, in 
reference both to the colonies and to Ireland. 

A ship from our American possessions, laden with their pro- 
duce, was stranded on the coast of Ireland. It will naturally be 
supposed that the cargo was landed, and the ship repaired in that 
country. No such thing. The law compelled the owners to send 
another English ship from England, for the purpose of bringing 
away the cargo : a cargo which, not improbably, might then be 
wanted in the Irish market, and which was, perhaps, destined to 
be ultimately consumed there, after having been trans-shipped in 
a port of that country, landed in an English port, and again re- 
shipped to Ireland. 

This is a sample of the real grievances under which our 
American colonies laboured. Such a state of law could not fail 
to engender great dissatisfaction, and much heart-burning. It is 
generally believed, that the attempt to tax our American colonies, 
without their consent, was the sole cause of the separation of 
those Colonies from the mother country. But, if the whole his- 
tory of the period between the year 1763 and the year 1773 be 
attentively examined, it will, I think, be abundantly evident, that. 



OF THE UNITED KINGDOM. 483 

however the attempt at taxation may have contributed somewhat 
to hasten the explosion, the train had been long laid, in the severe 
and exasperating efforts of this country, to enforce, with inop- 
portune and increasing vigour, the strictest and most annoying 
regulations of our Colonial and Navigation Code. Every petty 
adventure in which the colonists embarked, was viewed, by the 
merchants of this country, and the Board of Trade of that day, 
as an encroachment on the commercial monopoly of Great 
Britain. The professional subtlety of Lawyers, and the practical 
ingenuity of Custom-house Officers, were constantly at work in 
ministering to the jealous but mistaken views of our sea-ports. 
Blind to the consequences elsewhere, they persevered in their 
attempts to put down the spirit of commercial enterprize in the 
people of New England, until those attempts roused a very dif- 
ferent spirit; — that spirit which ventured to look for political 
independence from the issue of a successful rebellion. 

The result is well known. The country found itself engaged 
in a civil w^ar. That war, in its progress, involved us in the 
greatest difficulty and embarrassment It was terminated by sub- 
mitting to humiliations such as, I trust to God, the Crown of 
Great Britain will never again be exposed to. 

America was not the only part of our dominions in which we 
were called to pay the penalty of humiliation. Ireland, towards 
which we had acted in the same spirit of commercial jealousy as 
towards our American colonies, took advantage of our difficul- 
ties, and refused any longer to hold her industry and trade sub- 
ject to our system of exclusion. To the Parliament and Volunteers 
of Ireland we had also to capitulate. If the capitulation was 
mortifying to the pride of England, fortunately it neither com- 
promised our honour, nor involved any concession beyond what 
was strictly a debt of justice to Ireland. The benefits of our 
Commercial and Navigation System w^ere extended to her. She 
was permitted to trade direct to the Colonies, and placed rather 
upon the footing of a partner than that of a dependent, in the con- 
cerns of the British empire. 

If I have gone into this detail, I have done so, because it ap- 
peared to me necessary, as bearing, in a peculiar manner, upon 
the question now before the House. The immediate lesson which 
I draw from it is this, — that it is a part of political wisdom, 
when danger is foreseen, not supinely to wait for its approach, 
but, as far as possible, to take timely measures for its pre- 
vention. 

The peace with America gave the first great blow to the 
Navigation System of this country. There had now arisen an 
independent state in the New World. Our colonies had fought 
for, and had taken, a station in the rank of nations. They had 



484 STATE OF THE NAVIGATION 

now interests in navigation to attend to, and a commerce of their 
own to protect. It therefore became imperative on this country, 
unless we were prepared to relinquish all trade with America, to 
conform to circumstances. It was impossible for us, in this new 
state of things, to enforce the system of our Navigation Laws, 
which, until then, we had so rigidly insisted upon. That part of 
the system which provided, that none of the productions of Asia, 
Africa, or America, should be imported into England, except in 
British vessels, could no longer be adhered to. 

After the peace of 1783, and before the General Congress of 
America had established that system of government, under which 
the people of the United States now live, — a work which was 
not completed until the year 1787, — each of the different States, 
then composing the Union, was at liberty to act independently of 
the others in matters relating to its trade with foreign countries. 
Accordingly, almost every State established a different rule of 
commercial intercourse with this country. The general charac- 
ter, however, of their legislation, was conceived in a spirit of 
peculiar hostility (not unnatural, perhaps, so soon after the exas- 
peration excited by civil discord) against trade with Great 
Britain. In some of those states, indeed, British merchants were 
prohibited from trading with them altogether : in others, heavier 
duties were specifically imposed upon British merchandize ; and 
in all, a desire was manifested to give a decided preference to 
the goods of other countries. 

This state of things continued until the year 1787, when the 
General Congress met, and one uniform system of commercial 
policy was laid down. By that system, a heavy blow was aimed 
at the Navigation of this country. It was resolved, that all foreign 
ships, trading to America, should pay half a dollar, which was 
afterwards raised to a dollar per ton duty, beyond what was paid 
by national ships. And further, that goods imported in foreign 
vessels should pay a duty of ten per cent., over and above what 
was demandable on the same description of goods imported in 
American vessels. 

This system, — in the adoption of which the Americans had, in 
a considerable degree, followed the example of their English 
ancestors, — was Hkely to become seriously prejudicial to the com- 
merce and navigation of this country. The proper authorities, 
therefore, set about considering what was to be done, in order to 
counteract it. The Board of Trade had recourse, for advice, to 
the most eminent merchants and practical men; and various 
projects were started on the occasion. One plan proposed to give 
a bounty on all goods exported to America in British ships. 
Another, to impose a duty on all articles carried out of this coun- 
try in American ships. A third, to retaliate upon the Americans, 



OF THE UNITED KINGDOM. 485 

and, following their example, to lay a specific duty on American 
ships, and on goods imported in those siiips. These and various 
other plans, having the same object in view, on being silted and 
examined, w-ere found to be open to insuperable objections. It 
was shown that, without attaining their object, they would prove 
injurious to the manufactures and commerce of this country ; and 
all of them were, in consequence, abandoned. 

After this inquiry, and a long struggle to counteract the Navi- 
gation System of America, without in any degree relaxing our 
own, this country found it necessary to adopt the system of Reci- 
procity, on which, since the year 1815, the commercial inter- 
course between the two countries has been placed ; namely, 
equality of all charges upon the ships belonging to either country 
in the ports of the other, and a like equality of duty upon all 
articles the production of the one country, imported into the 
other, w^hether such importation be made in the ships of the one 
or the other. In the practical consequences of this arrangement, 
our adherence to another part of our navigation laws, instead of 
serving, appears to me to have shackled the shipping interest of 
this country. Our law still pi'ovides that goods, the produce of 
Asia, Africa, or America, shall not be imported in foreign ships, 
unless they be the ships of the country of which the goods are 
the produce. The Americans retaliate this restriction l3y apply- 
ing it to all goods the produce of Europe. An American ship 
trading to this country has, in consequence, a great advantage 
over a British ship trading to America. The American vessel, 
on her voyage to England, is freighted with a cargo wholly pro- 
duced in the United States. She has nothing else to bring here. 
For her return to America she may load in the ports of this coun- 
try with a cargo, partly the produce or manufacture of Great 
Britain, and partly of any other country. The British ship is 
debarred from this advantage. Her cargo, when trading to the 
United States, must be exclusively of British origin. For in- 
stance, an American vessel, at the port of Liverpool, may take 
nine-tenths of her cargo, in articles the produce of Lancashire, 
and the remainder may be made up of brandies, wines, or the 
produce of any other part of the world, to be procured at Liver- 
pool. But, if an English ship, proceeding to the United States, 
were to take a single cask of brandy, or a single pipe of wine, 
she would be liable to seizure and forfeiture. Is it not, therefore, 
fairly to be presumed, that a further relaxation of our System, to 
the extent of allowing the importation, from the United States, 
of goods, the produce of any part of the world, in American 
shipping, on condition of the like privilege being granted to British 
ships in the ports of the United States, — however departing from 
41* 



486 STATE OF THE NAVIGATION 

the policy of our ancestors, — would be rather an advantage than 
an injury to the shipping interest? 

Shortly after the comnaercial legislation of the United States 
had assumed, in 1787, a regular shape, and an uniform character, 
the war of the French Revolution broke out; a war which last- 
ed nearly a quarter of a century. The course of this war was 
marked by so many strange and anomalous circumstances, both 
by land and upon the ocean ; — so large a portion of the continent 
of Europe, including nearly all its trading and maritime com- 
munities, became subjected to the despotism of one great military 
power; — that despotism was exerted in so extraordinary a man- 
ner to crush maritime commerce ; — that it would be vain to enter 
upon the history of our Navigation System, or of that of other 
countries, during this long contest. It is, however, certain that 
the commerce of the United States of America, which was the 
only, at least almost the only, neutral power that could trade in 
safety, was greatly benefited by the war. It is equally true, that 
Great Britain, being well able to protect her commercial marine, 
in consequence of her vast naval superiority, did extend that 
commercial marine, in spite of all difficulties, whilst that of the 
other countries of Europe was greatly reduced. It is unneces- 
sary for me, as the facts are so well known, to dwell further on 
the circumstances of that war. We may, therefore, as far as 
relates to the present question, pass over the period between 1792 
and 1815. 

At the latter period, peace being restored, and with it the inde- 
pendence of the states which had been incorporated with France, 
the commerce of the world began to revert to its ancient chan- 
nels. The nations of Europe, whose flags had, for so long a 
series of years, disappeared from the ocean, were now naturally 
anxious that their own trade should be carried on in their own 
ships. This gave a check to the shipping of the United States, 
which was also felt by the shipping of this country. Perhaps in 
a greater degree by our own shipping, in consequence of the 
restitution of several extensive and valuable colonies, which we 
had captured and held during the war. 

Besides this material circumstance, there were others, to which 
I will briefly advert, which had a natural and inevitable tendency 
to interfere with, and diminish, the employment for shipping in 
this country. 

The first to which I shall allude is the Abolition of the Slave 
Trade. They who are old enough to remember — and I am one 
of the number, — the early debates which took place on this sub- 
ject will recollect, that the arguments in opposition to the mea- 
sure were grounded chiefly on the danger with which it threaten- 
ed the Shipping Interests of the country. The necessity of kid- 



OF THE UNITED KINGDOM. 487 

napping cargoes of slaves on the coast of Africa was, at that 
time, as coolly defended, on the score of encouragement to our 
marine, as the taking of cod-fish on the Banks of Newfoundland 
could be at the present day. That tratfic was, however, abolish- 
ed in 1806; and, happy I am, that the interests of humanity, and 
the honour of the English name, were, from that year, no longer 
sacrificed to the plea of the shipping interest ; though I may, I 
think, fairly adduce the abolition of the slave trade as having 
taken away one source of employment- 
After the general pacification of Europe, but before we dis- 
mantled our fleet, we insisted on the powers of Barbary desisting 
from the practices of maritime warfare, carried on by cruizers 
under their flags, in the Mediterranean. These corsairs were 
constantly taking prisoners, either for the sake of ransom, or for 
the purpose of carrying them into slavery. Whilst this system 
was tolerated, scarcely any trading vessels, those of Great Britain 
excepted, could navigate that sea in safety. In this state of things, 
it was highly honourable to this country to have used her naval 
power, — the dread of which had constantly ensured respect for 
her own flag, — for the purpose of procuring an equal degree of 
security for the navigation of all christian states. This was no 
positive duty which we were bound to perform. We were not 
called upon by any international engagement, nor by any moral 
obligation, as in the case of the slave trade. The act was one 
of spontaneous generosity. But, however high-minded in prin- 
ciple, it is not the less true that the result of our interference was 
injurious to the shipping interest of this country, in the Mediter- 
ranean. Since the bombardment of Algiers, the flag of every 
petty state, bordering on that sea, floats in equal security with 
our own. I am not accurately informed what was the quantity 
of British shipping employed in the carrying and coasting trade 
of those states before this change, but I have heard it stated, in 
this House, by one likely to be well informed, — the late Mr. 
Marryatt, — that from eight to ten thousand British seamen, and 
from seven to eight hundred British vessels, were engaged in that 
commerce. Consequently, to that extent has the employment for 
British ships been diminished in the Mediterranean. 

But these were not the only circumstances, at the close of the 
late war, which had a tendency to reduce the amount of our 
Shipping. With the termination of hostilities, there was neces- 
sarily a diminished demand for ships in the public service. The 
greatest proportion of those which had been taken up as hired 
transports was discharged. I have obtained a statement of their 
number and tonnage, as they stood at the termination of the war 
— and of the number and tonnage of those employed at the pre- 



488 STATE OF THE NAVIGATION 

sent period. The diminution is not less than 1,226 vessels, 
amounting to 270,382 tons. 

In the next place, we had to sell out of the King's service a 
number of vessels, which were no longer wanted in the navy. I 
do not advert to ships of the line, or to frigates of the large class, 
which are always sold, subject to the condition, that they shall 
be broken up. Of this latter description of ships I take no notice ; 
but confine my statement to vessels of smaller burthen, adapted 
to other purposes than those of war, and which are consequently 
not required to be so broken up. Of this class, there has been 
sold no less a number than three hundred and thirty-three, the 
amount of their tonnage being 93,530 tons. So that, if we add 
to the number of transports discharged the number of ships sold, 
we shall find that his Majesty's Government have set free, to 
compete with the commercial marine of the country, 1,559 ves- 
sels, amounting in tonnage to 363,912 tons; a quantity nearly 
equal to one-fourth of the whole shipping of the country, as it 
stood in the year 1793, at the commencement of the late war. 

But this is not all. If the difference of circumstances under 
which trade is carried on, in time of peace and in time of war, 
be taken into consideration, we shall find that, in the former 
period, a much smaller number of vessels is required for the same 
extent of transactions, than in the latter. In time of peace, the 
moment a ship has landed her cargo, she is at liberty to sail 
again, and is despatched on another voyage as soon as possible. 
During the last war, we were obliged, in almost all cases, to 
place our merchant ships under the protection of convoy ; and, 
in spite of all the exertions of the Admiralty, it was frequently 
difficult to provide convoys, as expeditiously as the interests of 
commerce would have required. Four or five hundred merchant- 
men were sometimes collected together at one point before the 
required protection could be afforded to them. And when, at 
length, these large bodies of shipping did proceed to sea, they 
were under the necessity of keeping together ; so that the rate of 
sailing, during a whole voyage, was necessarily to be regulated 
by the progress of the slowest sailing vessel. In time of peace 
it is otherwise. Ships can then traverse the ocean singly, with- 
out fear of interruption ; and in their passage from one port to 
another, as well as in loading and unloading, every exertion is 
used to ensure despatch. An instance occurred lately at Liver- 
pool, of a large West-Indiaman arriving from Barbadoes, landing 
her cargo, and sailing again for that island, in the course of one 
week. The multiplication and convenience of docks have also 
greatly contributed to obviate delay in the discharge and loading 
of vessels. Upon the whole, I shall not be overstating the pro- 
portion when I say that two-thirds of the number of vessels. 



OF THE UNITED KINGDOM. 489 

necessary in time of war, are fully sufficient for all the purposes 
of the same extent of commerce, in time of peace. 

There is yet another circumstance to which, before I quit this 
part of the subject, I must refer. I mean the alteration made 
in the year 1815, in the foreign Corn trade of the country. During 
the war, this trade afforded regular employment to no incon- 
siderable quantity of shipping, but since the law has been altered, 
and the ports have been generally shut against the importation 
of foreign corn, that employment has ceased. In a desultory 
intercourse, like that which alone can exist under the present 
law, the opening of the ports being sudden, and, in most cases, 
uncertain, till the quarterly average is declared, it is almost im- 
possible that the trade, when permitted, should not fall into the 
hands of the foreign ship-owner. The period for which the ports 
may continue open being limited to a few weeks, the persons who 
wish to take advantage of that opening, instead of fitting out 
ships in our ports, send their orders to the continent, with direc- 
tions to forward the corn by any vessels that can be procured 
on the spot. Hence the almost exclusive employment of foreign 
shipping in this occasional trade. 

I must now crave the indulgence of the House while I show 
what was the situation of this country, with regard to its Ship- 
ping, previous to the last war. In 1792, one of the most prosperous 
years which the country has ever known, — the year immediately 
preceding the breaking out of that war, in which we were called 
upon to make such immense efforts to maintain our naval supe- 
riority — the number of registered ships in the several ports of the 
British empire was 16,079 ; the amount of their tonnage 1,540,145 
tons. In the present year, that is to say, in the year ended the 
31st of December, 1825, the number of registered ships was 
24,174; and the amount of their tonnage 2,542,216 tons; showing 
an increase of one-third in the number of ships, and of two-fifths 
in the tonnage, within that period. 

Having stated the number and tonnage of our registered ves- 
sels at the commencement of the late war, I will now show what 
they were at its close. In 1815, the number was 24,860, and 
the amount of their tonnage 2,081,276 tons. It appears, therefore, 
that there has been, since the conclusion of the war, a decrease 
in our shipping of 686 vessels, and 139,060 tons; but I have, I 
think, shown satisfactorily that, upon the return of peace in 1815, 
our commercial marine was greatly in excess of what was requi- 
site, in the then altered situation of the country. 

As connected with this part of our inquiry, it is material to 

ascertain the number of vessels that have been built in the 

British dominions, since the termination of the late war, and to 

compare it with the number built in former periods. It is with 

3M 



490 STATE OF THE NAVIGATION 

much satisfaction that I find myself enabled to assure the House 
that, taking the last thirty-seven years, the number of ships annu- 
ally built in Great Britain, instead of decreasing, has increased. 
The documents which prove the correctness of this statement 
are already upon the table of the House, with the exception of 
those for the year 1812, which, in consequence of the calami- 
tous fire at the Custom-House in that year, could not be pro- 
cured. 

From the returns which I hold in my hand, I find that the 
number of ships built, last year, in the several ports of the British 
dominions, exceeded the number built in any one year of the 
whole period to which I have referred. In the year 1814, when 
the war with France first terminated, the number of ships built 
was 818; the amount of their tonnage 95,976 tons. Last year, 
the number of ships built was 1,312; the amount of their tonnage 
171,827 tons.* So that, in fact, the tonnage of the ships built 
last year was little short of double the tonnage of those built in 
the year 1814, and exceeded considerably that of any year upon 
record. 

These details, however dry in themselves, appear to me to in- 
volve the elements of the whole question, and to afford the best 
criterion by which a judgment can be formed, how far the com- 
plaints which represent our shipping to have been in a state of 
rapid decline are well founded. The only other comparison, 
growing out of the documents which I hold in my hand, is that 
of the number of ships which have entered inwards, and cleared 
outwards, to and from the ports of Great Britain, in the several 
years since the alterations which are objected to in our Naviga- 
tion Laws. 

I have provided myself with a return exhibiting this compari- 
son, from the year 1814 down to the last year; and I intreat the 
House to bear in mind that the complaint, in the petition on the 
table, is that in consequence of the alteration made in the Navi- 
gation Laws within the last three or four years, the employment 
of British Shipping has decreased, and that of foreign vessels 
trading with this country has increased. I will confine the com- 
parison to the returns of vessels, British and Foreign, entering 
inwards ; and for this reason — that it is not necessary for ships, 
leaving our ports in ballast, to clear out at all, and therefore the 
returns exhibiting the number of vessels cleared outwards must 
be very imperfect. 

I find that, in the year ended the 25th of December 1824, the 
number of British vessels that entered inwards was 19,164, and 
the amount of their tonnage 2,364,249 tons. The number of 

* Pari. Papers, Session 1826, v. xxii. n. 398. 



OF THE UNITED KINGDOM. 491 

foreign vessels that entered inwards, during the same year, was 
5,280, the amount of their tonnage being (394,880 tons. In the 
year ended 25th December 1825, — a year in which the modifica- 
tions made in our Navigation Laws were in full operation, — the 
number of British vessels that entered inwards was 21,780; the 
amount of their tonnage 2,786,844 tons. The number of foreign 
vessels that entered inwards in that year had increased to 6,561, 
and the amount of their tonnage to 892,601 tons. The year 1825 
was, it is well known, a year of unexampled speculation in every 
branch of commerce, creating an unusual demand for shipping, 
not only in the ports of this country, but throughout Europe. 
And what, as regards British Shipping, was the result? Why, 
that the positive increase of British vessels entered inwards, as 
compared with the year 1824, was 2,622; and of tonnage 
422,595 tons; while the increase of Foreign vessels entered in- 
wards, during the same year, was in number 1,281 ; and in ton- 
nage 197,721 tons.* This at least is no unsatisfactory result. 
The increased employment of British shipping alone in that year 
exceeds the aggregate increase of employment to the shipping of 
all other nations of the world. 

But as the attention of the House has been specially referred, 
by the Petitioners, to the state of the trade between this country 
and the northern parts of Europe, and more especially to the 
trade with Prussia, I must beg leave to enter rather more speci- 
fically into that part of their case. I am happy to be able to 
state, upon the authority of documents which will be laid on the 
table of the House, that by a comparison between the British and 
Prussian Shipping engaged in the trade between the two coun- 
tries, during the years 1824 and 1825, the increase of British was 
much greater than that of Prussian Shipping in the latter year. 
The number of British ships trading to the ports of Prussia in 
the year 1824, was 470 ; in the year 1825, 942 ; being more than 
double the number of the preceding year. The number of Prus- 
sian ships which came to this country, in the year 1824, was 
682; in 1825, the number was 887; being an increase of about 
one-fourth. 

Such, Sir, if any inference is to be deduced from the trade 
between Prussia and Great Britain for the last year, is the com- 
parative growth of British and Prussian Navigation. I am aware 
that the danger of losing our carrying trade, from the ports of 
the Baltic, has been the main source of the jealousy felt by the 
Shipping Interest, and of their complaints to this House. The 
comparison between British and Prussian shipping for the two or 
three last years, and especially that of the year 1825, has cer- 

* Pari. Papers, Session 1826, v. xxii. n. 898. 



492 STATE OF THE NAVIGATION 

tainly not borne out their predictions, or justified their alarms. 
But it would be uncandid to deny, that we have not yet sufficient 
experience to warrant a positive conclusion that, prospectively, 
the Shipping of the Prussian ports may not gain ground in the 
competition with our own. I am the more induced to make this 
remark, as, from the excessive excitement, and overtrading of the 
last year, I am ready to acknowledge that, taken by itself, it can- 
not be considered as affording an estimate for the future : neither 
on the other hand, perhaps, will it be fair, in 1827, to form such 
an estimate from the experience of the present year, which it is 
much to be feared, as a natural consequence of the late excess, 
will be one of severe depression in the trade of this country. 

Having adverted to the apprehensions which are entertained 
respecting our Trade with the ports of the Baltic, I have natu- 
rally been most anxious to sift to the bottom this important part 
of our inquiry. I know no mode so satisfactory of ascertaining 
what have been the fluctuations in the trade, either as respects 
our own share of it, at different periods, or the proportion which 
that share bears to the trade of other Powers with the ports of 
the Baltic, as a reference to the annual Returns of the vessels, of 
all nations, which have passed the Sound in a given number of 
years. Fortunately the State Paper Offic? has furnished me with 
these returns. , This account I hold in my hand, from the year 
1783 to the year 1792, with the exception of the year 1789; the 
returns for which year have been either lost or mislaid. I also 
hold in my hand a similar account, from the year 1816 to the 
year 1825, both inclusive.* The comparison of these two periods, 
each of ten years, (both periods of peace) appears to me to afford 
a fair illustration of this branch of trade. I am happy to say 
that the result will be found highly satisfactory ; for it will be 
seen that the number of British ships which passed the Sound in 
the year 1825, was not only positively greater than it was in any 
one of the twenty years to which I have referred, but that its 
proportion, with respect to the number of vessels from all other 
nations, was equally favourable to this country. It would be 
going into an unnecessary detail to give the numbers for every 
year of the twenty ; I shall, therefore, confine myself to the five 
last years. The total number of ships which passed the Sound 
was : — 

Ships of all 
British Ships. other Nations. 

In the year 1821 2,819 6,358 

Do. 1822 3,097 5,386 

Do. 1823 3,016 6,187 

Do. 1824 3,540 6,978 

Do. 1825 5,186 7,974 

* Pari. Papers, 1826, v. xxii. n. 380. 



OF THE UNITED KINGDOM. 493 

So that, looking at the proportion which Great Britain has been 
able to retain of the Trade of the Bahic, it appears that, last 
3'ear, when the total number of vessels which passed the Sound 
exceeded that of any former year, British Shipping engrossed 
considerably more than one-third of the whole navigation of that 
sea, and had increased very nearly two-fifths, compared with the 
average of the four preceding years. The papers to which I 
have referred I propose to move for, so that the House will be 
able to judge from them of the correctness of my statement. 

In consequence of the restoration of peace, the demand for 
shipping, as I have already remarked, was much diminished, and 
the rates of freight were considerably lowered after the 3^ear 
1815, This gave rise to great complaints on the part of the 
Shipping Interest. In the hope of finding some remedy for their 
difficulties, the House, in the year 1820, appointed a Select Com- 
mittee to inquire into the state of our Foreign Commerce. My 
right honourable friend, the Master of the Mint,* now absent, I 
am sorry to say, from indisposition, presided over the labours of 
that committee, and prosecuted the inquiry, in several succeed* 
ing sessions, with a degree of zeal, diligence, and ability, for 
which the country is greatly indebted to my right honourable 
friend. One change recommended by that committee, in the 
Navigation Laws, was to the following effect: — that whereas 
certain goods, which I have already described as known in trade 
under the designation of " enumerated articles,''^ could only be 
imported in British ships, or in ships of the country in Europe 
of which they were the produce, and directly from that country, 
it was the opinion of the committee that the law ought to be 
so far relaxed, as to allow the importation of these articles in 
the ships of any country into which they had been previously im- 
ported. 

The recommendation of the Committee was adopted by the 
legislature. That this relaxation has been beneficial to our Com- 
merce and Navigation is now, I believe, placed beyond all doubt, 
It afforded a great facility to the execution of another project, 
emanating from the same Committee, and since also carried into 
effect ; — that of establishing a general system of Warehousing, so 
as to make this country a place of entrepot for all foreign com- 
modities. It was obviously impossible to give full scope to this 
system, unless we were prepared to allow greater latitude to the 
admission of foreign goods. The superior capital and credit of 
this country afford inducements to send those goods here, and 
their being deposited in British warehouses gives a facility to the 
British Merchant and Ship-owner to supply the demand for them 

* The right honourable Thomas Wallace ; the present Lord Wallace. 
42 



494 STATE OF THE NAVIGATION 

in other parts of the world, through the medium of British ad- 
venture and British shipping, instead of their being sent directly 
to those parts in foreign shipping, from the countries of Europe in 
which such goods are produced. 

It was desirable, therefore, for the interest of our Foreign trade, 
that we should no longer rigidly adhere to that part of the Navi- 
gation Act which prohibited the importation of the "enumerated 
articles," if brought from countries other than those of which 
they were the produce. Such a restraint, it is hardly necessary 
to say, could not fail frequently to prevent speculations of trade, 
in which the spirit of British enterprise would have otherwise en- 
gaged, or to throw those speculations into other channels. It 
interfered, likewise, to prevent the advantageous assortment of 
cargoes, and other commercial arrangements, as well in foreign 
ports as in the ports of this country ; and, in this and many other 
ways, contributed, directly and indirectly, to diminish the employ- 
ment for British shipping. 

Another alteration in our Navigation System has since been 
adopted, which certainly ought not to have been so long delayed. 
This alteration consists in putting the trade between Great Britain 
and Ireland upon the footing of a Coasting trade. Every gentle- 
man must, I think, see that, from the time at least of the union of 
the two countries, it was desirable that their interests and com- 
mercial system should be identified as much as possible. From 
that period it was absurd to consider the commercial intercourse 
with Ireland as a part of our foreign trade, and to subject the 
shipping employed in it to the restrictive regulations and higher 
charges of that trade. 

But these were not the only deviations from the ancient rules 
of our Navigation System. The revolutions which have occurred 
in the political state of the world, in our time, rendered other 
changes indispensable. There has grown up over the whole 
continent of America, a situation of affairs similar to that which 
the United States presented, after their reparation from the 
mother country. This change from a colonial to an independent 
existence, necessarily draws after it, in each particular case, 
the application of the new rule, which, as I have already 
stated, unavoidably grew out of the independence of the United 
States. 

The first application of that rule occurred in respect to Brazil. 
From the moment when, in 1808, the house of Braganza trans- 
ferred the seat of empire to Brazil, that country virtually ceased 
to be a colony. Great Britain had no choice but to apply the 
European principles to the commerce and navigation of Brazil, 
though out of Europe, and to admit Portuguese shipping, — and, 
since the separation of Portugal and Brazil, Brazilian shipping, — 



OF THE UNITED KINGDOM. 495 

coming from that country into our ports, upon the same footing 
as the ships of any other independent nation. 

This principle has been extended, from time to time, as new 
States have risen up in America. When I heard the honourable 
member for Grampound complain that, in our Treaty of Com- 
merce and Navigation with Colombia, and in that with Buenos 
Ayres, we had consented to place their navigation upon an 
equality with our own, I certainly listened to this charge with no 
small degree of surprise, being satisfied that what the honourable 
gentleman censured so severely was the very wisest principle 
that this country could adopt. Those states were anxious to en- 
courage their commercial marine, by granting exclusive advanta- 
ges to their own shipping, and imposing certain restrictions upon 
that of this country. This disposition was frequently manifested 
by the Ministers of those States in the course of our discussions 
with them ; and certainly there are not wanting some who are 
constantly endeavouring to excite in these new countries a 
jealousy of the Naval Power of Great Britain ; instigating them 
to adopt a separate and novel code of maritime law for the New 
World, and to frame their Navigation System upon principles of 
giving a preference to their own shipping, and to that of America 
generally, over the shipping of this country and of Europe. 

Have we acquiesced in these views ? Have we compromised 
any of the acknowledged principles of Maritime Law 1 No, Sir 
— Whilst we have explicitly refused to listen to any such com- 
promise, we have disarmed all suspicion as to our commercial 
pretensions, by frankly declaring, that we sought no exclusive 
advantages for British ships or British trade, and that the prin- 
ciple of our intercourse with the New States, as with the Old 
States, of the World, would be that of a fair and equal re- 
ciprocity. 

This brings me to the gravamen of the charge made against 
his Majesty's Government; namely, the step taken by them, in 
furtherance of this principle, by the introduction of a law, enabling 
the Crown, with the advice of the Privy Council, to remit all 
discriminating duties on the goods and shipping of such courrtries, 
as may agree to impose no higher charges or duties upon British 
ships, and the goods imported therein, than upon their own ships, 
and the like goods imported in such ships. 

If the system of discriminating Duties for the encouragement 
of Shipping, were a secret known to thfs country alone; if a 
similar system were not, or could not be, put in force in every 
other country, I should not be standing here to vindicate the mea- 
sure to which I have just referred, and the present policy of his 
Majesty's Government. So long as, in fact, no independent tra- 
ding community existed out of Europe, and so long as the old 



496 STATE OF THE NAVIGATION 

Governments of Europe looked upon these nnatters, — if they look- 
ed to them at all, — as little deserving their attention, and were 
content, either from ignorance or inditference, not to thwart our 
System, it would have been wrong to disturb any part of it. But 
js this the present state of the world ? Did not the United States 
of America, in the first instance, for the purpose of raising to 
themselves a great commercial Marine, and of counteracting our 
Navigation Laws, adopt, in their utmost rigour, the rules of those 
laws, and carry, even further than we had ever done, in respect 
to foreign Ships, this principle of discriminating duties against 
our Shipping ? Can we shut our eyes to the fact that other nations 
have followed, or are following, their example ? Do we not see 
them, one after the other, taking a leaf out of our own book ? Is 
not every Government in Europe, if possessed of sea-ports, now 
using its utmost endeavours to force a trade, and to raise up for 
itself a commercial Marine? Have we not boasted of our Navi- 
gation Laws, till we have taught other nations to believe (how- 
ever erroneous that belief), that they are almost the only requisite, 
or, at least, the sine qua non, of commercial wealth and of mari- 
time power? Did these vauntings excite no envy, no spirit of 
rivalry, no countervailing opposition in other countries ? Did the 
success of the United States of America create no desire in those 
countries to follow her example ? 

It would be worse than idle, it would be dangerous, to dissem- 
ble to ourselves the great changes which have been wrought, 
since the establishment of American independence, in the views 
and sentiments of Europe, upon all matters connected with com- 
merce and navigation. They now occupy a leading share in the 
attention of almost every Government. They are everywhere a 
subject of general inquiry and interest. Even in countries, of 
which the institutions are least favourable to the discussion of 
political topics, these questions are freely discussed, and, by dis- 
cussion, the influence of public opinion is made to bear upon the 
measures and policy of their Governments. 

In this altered state of the world, it became our duty seriously 
to inquire, whether a system of commercial hostility, of which 
the ultimate tendency is mutual prohibition, — whether a system 
of high discriminating duties upon foreign ships, with the moral 
certainty of seeing those duties fully retaliated upon our own 
Shipping, in the ports of foreign countries, — was a contest in 
which England was likely to gain, and out of which, if persever- 
ed in, she was likely to come with dignity or advantage? I will 
lay aside, for the moment, every consideration of a higher nature, 
moral or political, which would naturally lead us to look with 
some repugnance to the engaging in such a contest. I will 
equally lay aside all consideration for the interest of our manu- 



OF THE UNITED KINGDOM. 497 

facturers, and for the general well-being of our population, who 
as consumers, would obviously have to pay for this system of 
Custom-house warfare, and reciprocal restriction ; and I wilJ 
view the question solely in reference to the shipping interest. In 
this comparatively narrow, but, I admit, not unimportant, view 
of the question, I have no difficulty in stating my conviction, — a 
conviction at which I have arrived after much anxious considera- 
tion, — that, in the long-run, this war of Discriminating Duties, if 
persevered in on both sides, must operate most to the injury of 
the country which, at the time of entering upon it, possesses the 
greatest commercial marine. How can it be otherwise ? What 
are these discriminating duties, but a tax upon commerce and 
navigation? Will not the heaviest share of that tax fall, there- 
fore, upon those who have the greatest amount of shipping and 
of trade? 

Before we embark in such a contest, we owe to the character 
of the country, as well as to its interests, to satisfy ourselves; — 
first, that it is necessary for its welfare ; and, — secondly, that 
once committed to the trial with all the commercial powers of 
Europe, the country would have the firmness and fortitude neces- 
sary to go through w^ith it. Do not let gentlemen too hastily 
decide this last point in the affirmative. Let them call to their 
recollection the famous Orders in Council ; — let them, above all, 
bear in mind, that we have yet had but one trial of this discrimi- 
nating warfare, — the trial with the United States of America, — 
and that we came out of that trial, after several years' persever- 
ance, by conceding the very object, for the maintenance of which 
it had been carried on. Would it be politic, or dignified, to 
engage in a like struggle in Europe, with the risk of arriving at 
the same result ? In commerce, in navigation, in naval power, 
and maritime pretensions, the United States are our most formi- 
dable rival; and we are now arraigned for not withliolding from 
Prussia and Denmark, what parliament and the country, ten years 
ago, concurred in yielding to America. 

Under what circumstances did England found her Navigation 
System ? When her commercial marine was, comparatively, 
insignificant, her wealth inconsiderable, before manufactures were 
established, and when she exported corn, wool, and other raw 
materials. When, on the other hand, Holland and the Nether- 
lands were rich, possessed of great 'manufactures, and of the 
largest portion of the carrying trade of Europe and the world. 
What has followed ? The commercial marine of the latter coun- 
tries has dwindled away, and that of Great Britain is now im- 
mense. But, in the progress of the change, England is become 
the great seat of manufactures and trading wealth, frequently 
importing, and never exportijig, corn; drawing raw materials 
42* 3N 



498 STATE OF THE NAVIGATION 

from, and sending out manufactured goods to, all parts of the 
world. This was our state, though in a far less degree than at 
present, when America became independent. She started by- 
applying towards us the system, which we had applied towards 
Holland. She was then "poor, with a very small commercial 
marine, without manufactures, having corn and raw materials to 
export ; — and we know what her shipping now is. Let gentle- 
men reflect on these circumstances, before they decide that it is 
necessarily wise to enter upon a similar contest with other poor 
and unmanufacturing countries. Let them seriously consider, 
whether a system of discriminating duties, — now that the exclu- 
sive patent by which we held that system is expired, — is not the 
expedient of such a country as I have described, rather than the 
resource of one which already possesses the largest commercial 
marine in the world. They will then see, that it may possibly 
be a wise policy to divert such countries from that system, rather 
than to goad them on, or even leave them a pretext for going 
into it. 

Let us for a moment, however, suppose that, at all hazards, 
we have embarked in this warfare of Counteracting Duties. They 
who recommend this policy have no right to assume that, in the 
progress of the struggle, the discriminating duties imposed in the 
foreign country (Prussia, for example) on British shipping, will 
not be, at least, equivalent to the like duties levied in England on 
Prussian shipping. The United States did not content themselves 
with equivalency, — they went more boldly to work ; — so might 
any European power. If equivalent duties be established on both 
sides, how will they operate ? It is clear that the shipping of 
each country will stand in the same relative situation to that of 
the other, as if no such duties had been imposed ; the duties, there- 
fore, in both countries will be a tax, and a very objectionable one, 
upon the interchange of their respective productions. But, as 
those productions are different, these duties will afl^ect differently 
the industry of the contending parties. Our principal exports to 
the North of Europe are manufactured goods and colonial pro- 
duce ; — our imports, timber, hemp, flax, pitch, tar (occasionally 
corn), and other raw materials. The former must be sold dearer 
in the foreign country,— the latter in this country, — by all the 
amount of the tax. What is this in the foreign country, but a 
premium against our manufactures, in favour of the rival manu- 
factures of other states, or of the importing state itself; — and in 
this country, but a tax upon raw materials requisite for carrying 
on our own manufactures ? A ship, for instance, is a manufac- 
tured article, and, to encourage our shipping, here is an additional 
tax upon the raw materials of that manufacture ! Our cotton 
goods, our woollen stuffs, barely maintain « competition with 



OF THE UNITED KINGDOM. 499 

those of other countries, and here is an additional tax on their 
importation into those countries, to turn the scale against us' 
Our West-India planters complain of the low price of their pro- 
ductions, and we provoke an additional tax, which tends to shut 
them altogether out of the foreign market ! If the end of this 
warfare should be, as, pushed to the extreme, it might be, that 
each country should export its own productions, in its own ships, 
and no country import the productions of another, in the ships of 
that other, which would be the greatest loser, the country manu- 
facturing, or the country producing the raw materials ? 

I will not even glance at the effect of all this strife upon the 
consumers, that is, upon the bulk of the population; because I 
know that, in certain quarters, I shall be taxed with theory, if I 
stand up for the general interest of the community, against the 
pretensions of a particular class, when the interest of that class 
is supposed to be at stake. Indeed, I have no doubt I shall be 
told by some practical men, that all this is theory, to which they 
have a short answer. That answer is, " We do not want any 
thing from the Baltic. We have plenty of timber, &c. in Canada, 
all of which would be brought home in British Shipping ; and, 
therefore, the powers of the Baltic must submit to our discrimi- 
nating duties, without retaliation, or be content to lose our trade." 
I really know not how to reason with such logicians. I believe 
the Baltic can do to the full as well without us, as we can do 
without the Baltic. We import quite as much timber from 
Canada as can be used for the purposes for which that timber is 
fit. For other, and more important purposes, we want timber of 
better and more durable qualities. 

Looking to the Shipping Interests of this country, and to the 
irrterests of Canada, I am not one of those who think we have 
done too much for those interests, in the great preference, in 
point of duty, which we have given to the Canada timber, and in 
the consequent sacrifices which we make to encourage the im- 
portation of that timber, inferior as it is ; but I must say, at the 
same time, that the great annual increase of the importation from 
our North American possessions, under the present duty, shows 
that the proportion which it bears to the Baltic duty has not been 
settled to the disadvantage of the shipping employed in the 
Canada trade. Were it necessary, however, to make an option 
between a contest of discriminating duties with Prussia in the 
timber trade, or a further reduction of the duty on Canada tim- 
ber, for the greater encouragement of our shipping, I certainly 
should prefer the latter measure, as the least injurious of the two 
to all the other interests of this country. 

For the reasons which I have now stated, his Majesty's Gov- 
ernment have thought it more prudent and more dignified to enter 



500 STATE OF THE NAVIGATION 

into amicable arrangements with other powers, founded on the 
basis of mutual interest, and entire reciprocity of advantages, 
rather than embark in a contest of commercial hostility and 
reciprocal exclusion; — a system, at best, of doubtful benefit to 
the Shipping Interest; — involving the certainty of great injury to 
all the other important interests of the country ; and which would, 
at last, place Parliament and the Government in the painful alter- 
native, either of turning a deaf ear to the complaints of the many 
who would suffer from the contest, — or of terminating it, as other 
contests of a like nature have been terminated, by concession, 
bringing with it not only immediate humiliation, but other con- 
sequences which do not end with the concession itself. 

But it is asserted, that we should not have been compelled to 
make our choice between these alternatives. Whilst I entreat 
the House to bear in mind the circumstances which I have al- 
ready stated, in respect to the general feeling which prevails in 
the maritime countries of Europe, and in America, I must now 
call their attention to the steps which had been actually taken by 
Prussia (the first power, after the United States, with" which we 
entered into a treaty upon this subject), before the negotiation of 
that treaty was entertained by his Majesty's Government. 

I hold. Sir, in my hand a Report, made on the 6th of August 
1822, by the British Consul at Dantzic, also Reports of the Vice- 
Consuls at Konigsberg and Memel, to the Secretary of State for 
Foreign Affairs. I will not trouble the House with reading the 
whole of these despatches, but I request their particular attention 
to the following extracts : — 

Extract of a Despatch from Mr. Consul Gibson, dated Dantzic, the 6th 
August 1822. 

" My Lord : — I do myself the honour to transmit to your Lordship a trans- 
lation of the Order of Cabinet (which I have only now been able to procure) 
respecting an increase of the Government Port Charges in the Prussian 
Ports, on vessels belonging to countries between which and Prussia no reci- 
procity has been fixed by treaty, or which do not otherwise treat Prussian 
ships and their cargoes as advantageously as their own. Prussia has made 
arrangements with Holland, Denmark, and America, for establishing a reci- 
procity in this respect, and the present regulation has evidently for object to 
induce other countries, particularly Britain, to enter into a similar arrange- 
ment. 

" At present Prussian, Dutch, Danish and American ships pay, as public 
port charges here, about 46| common groshes, or about 17f rf. sterling, per 
last of 4,000 lb. (about 4,140 lb. English), or about 1| tons British measure- 
ment ; while British and other vessels pay about 77| common groshes, or 
about 29§t?. sterling per last, making 8fd. sterling per ton measurement 



OF THE UNITED KINGDOM. 501 

more. Tlie advance that is to take place will make, as it will be payable in 
gold at a losing' valuation, viz. 

On ships coming in with a full cargo of goods, about 58 ] c s 

Do. with a quarter of a cargo or less 29 I 1 § | 

Do. going out with a full cargo 29 f g S i 

Do. with a quarter of a cargo or less 144 J | g 

" Thus vessels arriving even in ballast, and taking a cargo back, will in 
future be burthened with about 37|(?. sterling per Ion measurement more 
government port charges than Prussian ships ; which however is not quite so 
great an advantage to the latter as British vessels have over Prussian in 
Britain, by paying lower port charges, light money, &c. and less duty on the 
cargo, if of timber for instance, which gives the chief employment to Prus- 
sian ships. 

" The Prussian government make this new port-charge regulation profes- 
sedly from the interest created by the situation of their ship-owners, who are 
indeed all going to ruin." 

Cabinet Order of the 20th June 1822, for the Encouragement of Home 
Shipping. 

" In consideration of the unfavourable state of the shipping of this country 
for several years past, and in consequence of the representations made to me, 
founded on divers consultations, that the unfavourable state of things operates 
the more injuriously on the said trade, as the principles always observed here, 
of imposing moderate burthens on foreign ships frequenting Prussian ports, 
and of levying the same duties on goods imported or exported, whether in 
foreign or in native ships, are not adopted in several foreign ports frequented 
by Prussian ships ; I have resolved, so long as these relations subsist, so detri- 
mental to the maintenance of this important branch of domestic trade, to 
grant the said trade greater advantages than it has hitherto enjoyed ; I there- 
fore do ordain, 

" First. That the coasting trade from one Prussian port to another shall 
be considered, exclusively, a branch of domestic trade, and shall be carried 
on solely by Prussian vessels, under pain of ship and property being con- 
fiscated, upon any foreign ship-master being detected in it. Exceptions can 
only be allowed in very urgent cases, and only for the public good, by the 
provincial authorities. 

" Secondly. An increase of the hitherto existing harbour dues shall take 
place in all Prussian ports, on foreign ships with cargoes, incoming or out- 
going ; but the same shall not be applicable to the ships of those nations : — 

" o. With which Prussia has treaties, placing her ships and their cargoes 
on an equal footing with the native ships, or with those of the most 
favoured nations, in conformity with the stipulations therein made. 

" b. Which from other causes treat Prussian ships, with their cargoes, the 
game as native vessels with theirs. 



502 STATE OF THE NAVIGATION 

" With this restriction shall the increase take place, according to the fol- 
lowing- rates : — 

" a. On in-coming ships R. 2 per last of 4,000 lbs 

" b. On out-going ditto 1 ditto. 

" c. On ships that have only one-fourth of a cargo, or less, one-half of the 
above; say, 

" In-coming 1 — out-going \. 

" Ships in ballast are not subject to the increased imposts. 

" The proceeds of this impost shall not be considered as an additional source 
of revenue to the state ; but shall be applied for the benefit of the ship- 
owners, accordingly as you, the Minister of Commerce, shall propose to me. 

" Thirdly. In order to present, as far as is in the power of the state, a real 
source of profit to the ship-owners, the conveyance of such goods as may be 
for account of the government, shall be eflfected, in preference, by native 
ships, regarding which I refer to my particular order of this day. 

" The first and third of the foregoing enactments shall be put in force im- 
mediately ; but the second point only in three months after publication of this 
order, which is to be made through the collection of laws, and according to 
which the needful is to be decreed. 

(Signed) "Frederick Wilhelm." 

Extract of a Despatch from Vice-Consul Tuke, dated Konigsherg, 
22d August 1822. 

" Sir : — I beg leave to draw the attention of your Excellency to several 
new laws and regulations of the Prussian government, which are highly 
detrimental to the British trade, and respecting which numerous complaints 
have been made to me by the merchants and ship-masters interested in the 
trade between this country and Great Britain. 

" By the last tariff, a duty of one guilder per hundred-weight is imposed 
on all flax, hemp, and tow, shipped in foreign vessels. This is probably in- 
tended as a measure of retaliation for the difference of import duty charged 
in Great Britain between goods arriving in British and foreign vessels. This 
law has obliged several British ships this summer to load flax at the low rate 
of thirty shillings per ton, instead of fifty shillings, which they would have 
got, had not the merchants been obliged to pay twenty florins per ton export 
duty, because the goods were shipped in a British vessel. As hemp and flax 
are, now that the corn trade no longer exists, the principal articles of export 
from hence, this duty bears exceedingly hard on British vessels. 

" According to a Cabinet Order, dated Berlin, 20th June 1822, intended 
for the encouragement of Prussian shipping, the king has been pleased to 
direct a duty of three dollars per last to be charged on all foreign vessels 
arriving with cargoes after the expiration of three months. This tax is so 
important in its consequences as to demand immediate attention, for a moder- 
ate sized vessel will, by this order, be compelled to pay three hundred dollars 



OF THE UNITED KINGDOM. 503 

in addition to the existing heavy charges, which will entirely prevent our 
vessels from enjoying the carrying trade from home to this country." 

Extract of a Despatch from Vice-Consul Fowler, dated Memel, 
2lst August 1822. 
" This difference between British and Prussian shipping" (i. e. the differ- 
ence established by the Decree of 20th of June), " must drive the carrying 
trade in British bottoms from this port, to the great injury of the British ship- 
ping interest; for about three hundred British vessels, on an average, load 
here annually with timber for Great Britain, which of course cannot bear 
such heavy charges as cargoes consisting of grain, flax, hemp, tallow, &c. 8ic., 
and which are of so much more considerable value. The merchants here, 
who are principally British, have protested against this new regulation, and 
petitioned the Prussian government for the repeal thereof" 

From what I have now read, the House will at once under- 
stand the nature of the measures adopted by the Prussian Gov- 
ernment, in the year 1822, and the motives which influenced them 
in that proceeding. What was the consequence of these mea- 
sures? Why, that, in the next year, 1823, the Board of Trade, 
and other departments of the government, were assailed with 
representations from all quarters, connected with the shipping and 
trade of the country, against the heavy charges imposed upon 
British ships in the ports of Prussia. In such circumstances, what 
course did his Majesty's Government take ? We felt it to be our 
duty, in the first instance, to communicate with the Prussian 
minister in this country : and our minister at Berlin was, I believe, 
also directed to confer with the Prussian Government on the sub- 
ject. I myself had a conference with the Prussian minister at 
this court, and I well recollect the substance of his reply to me ; 
" You have," he said, " set us the exami)le, by your port and light 
charges, and your discriminating duties on Prussian ships ; and 
we have not gone beyond the limits of that example. Hitherto, 
we have confined the increase of our port and tonnage charges 
to ships only ; but it is the intention of my Government next 
3'ear" (and of this he showed me the written proof), " to imitate 
you still more closely, by imposing discriminating duties on the 
goods imported in your ships. Our object is a just protection to 
our own navigation ; and so long as the measure of our protec- 
tion does not exceed that which is afforded in your ports to British 
ships, we cannot see with what reason you can complain." 

Against such a reply, w^hat remonstrance could we, in fairness, 
make to the Prussian Government? We might have addressed 
ourselves, it may be said by some, to the friendly feelings of that 
government; — we might have pleaded long usage in support of 
our discriminating duties; — we might have urged the advantages 



504 STATE OF THE NAVIGATION 

which Prussia derived from her trade with England. Appeals 
like these were not forg-otten in the discussion, but they were of 
little avail against the fact stated by Mr. Consul Gibson — that 
" the Prussian ship-owners were all going to ruin." 

By others it may be said, "your duty was to retaliate, by in- 
creasing your own port charges, and discriminating duties, on 
Prussian shipping." I have already stated generally my reasons 
against the policy of this latter course. We were not prepared 
to begin a system of commercial hostility, which, if followed up 
on both sides to its legitimate consequences, could only tend to 
reciprocal prohibition. In this state of things, more prudently, 
as I contend, we entered upon an amicable negotiation with the 
Prussian Government, upon the principle of our treaty with the 
United States, — that of abolishing, on both sides, all discrimina- 
ting duties on the ships and goods of the respective countries in 
the ports of the other. 

Having concluded an arrangement with Prussia upon this basis, 
we soon found it necessary to do the same with some other of 
the Northern States. Similar conventions were accordingly 
entered into with Denmark and Sweden. Reciprocity is the 
foundation of all those conventions ; but it is only fair to add, that 
they contain other stipulations for giving facility to trade, and 
from which the commerce of this country, I am confident, will, 
in the result, derive considerable advantage. 

When his Majesty's Government had successively made the 
concession of these discriminating duties to the United States, to 
Prussia, to Denmark, and to Sweden, I should have been ashamed 
of the Councils of this country, if we had hesitated to enter into 
a similar agreement with the free Hanseatic towns of Hamburgh, 
Bremen, and Lubeck. These little States, I admit, had imposed 
no discriminating duties upon our ships, though they had the 
power to do so. But would it have been worthy of the character 
of this great country, consistent with its justice, or honourable to 
its generosity, to continue to levy, upon the trade and shipping of 
these ports, duties which were no longer paid by the subjects of 
more powerful States ; — to have made their forbearance the plea 
for our exaction, or to have waited to do an act of justice until 
they had deprived us of that plea ? 

In our treatment of these free towns, this country ought not 
altogether to forget that, amidst the barbarous ignorance, and 
habitual violence, of the feudal ages, those little Republics were 
the refuge of commerce, and the nurseries of civilization. They 
were the sanctuaries, in which the arts and pursuits, most con- 
ducive to the enjoyments and improvement of mankind, were 
respected, amidst the scenes of bloodshed, rapine, and insecurity, 
by which they were too often surrounded. With these recollec- 



OF THE UNITED KINGDOM. 505 

lions, I shall, perhaps, be excused if I express my regret, that 
several of the little trading communities on the Continent have 
ceased to be free and independent. In point of policy, it has 
always appeared to me that the incorporation of these communi- 
ties with the military monarchies of the Continent, was not the 
most satisfactory part of the late settlement of Europe. This 
incorporation was, probably, more the inevitable consequence of 
the general derangement of the war, than the legitimate result of 
the principles which prevailed at the restoration of peace. Were 
I disposed to illustrate the inconvenience of that incorporation, 
in reference to the present subject, I might, not inopportunely, 
refer to Dantzic If, instead of passing under the dominion of 
an absolute monarchy, that town (formerly, I believe, one of the 
Hanseatic League) had continued free like Hamburg, and had 
the Government of Prussia then said, — " You shall not trade with 
us, except on such and such conditions," — our answer might have 
been, " the commodities which we want from your country we 
can procure at Dantzic, where no such conditions are imposed 
on British ships." 

If we look at the present question as connected with our mari- 
time strength, I contend that there can be little or no danger from 
the arrangements which I have now described. The states to 
which those arrangements extend, from their situation, and from 
many other circumstances, which it is not necessary for me to 
mention, never can become formidable as maritime powers; — 
they never can dispute with us the ascendancy on the ocean, nor 
have they an interest in assisting others to obtain that ascendancy. 
Their commercial interests, and regard to their own security, 
must alike incline them to our side. 

In time of peace, it is well known, the policy of this country 
excludes, as much as possible, from our commercial marine the 
natives of all foreign countries; but, in time of war, when our 
native seamen are required for the King's service, we are under 
the necessity of admitting volunteers from other countries to man 
our merchant-ships. The consequence is that, from our muhipli- 
ed intercourse with those secondary states, their seamen, in time 
of war, tempted by higher wages and other advantages, assist in 
manning our merchant-ships, and thereby afford us great facili- 
ties for carrying on our extensive commerce. On the restoration 
of peace, these volunteers are, most of them, forced to seek em- 
ployment again in the merchantmen of their own countries; and 
their return thither contributes to give increased activity to the 
commercial marine of those countries. 

If, therefore, by this system of extended reciprocity, a some- 
what larger share of the carrying trade between Great Britain 
and these secondary states devolve to their shipping, in time of 
43 3 



506 STATE OF THE NAVIGATION 

peace, so far as this participation is obtained at the expense of 
any diminished employment for our own shipping, we may regret 
the diminution : at the same time, if the circumstances which 
lead to it be unavoidable, it is some consolation to know, that the 
corresponding increase, elsewhere, is divided among those coun- 
tries which cannot be dangerous, and are likely to be most useful 
to us, in time of war. 

The Timber trade with Norway has, at all times, been carried 
on chiefly in the ships of that country. They are built for the 
purpose, in the cheapest manner, but so rudely constructed, as to 
be unfit for the conveyance of almost any other article. In re- 
spect to the Prussian timber ships, they are also of a construction 
very inferior to the shipping of this country, built for the purpose 
of general trade. We are told by most of the Petitioners, and 
figures are adduced to prove the statements, that they are sent 
to sea and navigated at less than one-half of the expense of British 
ships. If it be so, the restoration of the discriminating duty, to 
the repeal of which these Petitioners attribute all their present 
difficulties, would be of little avail to protect them. That pro- 
tection was 2s. 9d. upon a load of timber, being the difference 
between 57s. 9^., the duty in a foreign, and 55s., the duty in a 
British ship, exclusive of some difference on account of lower 
port charges, and light money, paid by the British ship. Against 
this advantage, therefore, in our ports was to be set off the alien 
duty of 3s. Ifc?. a ton, imposed on British ships in the Prussian 
ports, whether with a cargo or in ballast. The balance, there- 
fore, on our side would be next to nothing, — totally inadequate, 
upon the showing of the petitioners, as protection ; — but just 
enough to excite irritation, and to afford a pretence for vexatious 
restrictions on British commerce, and on the introduction of 
British manufactures into the Prussian dominions. It has also 
been stated by some of the petitioners, that ship-building in this 
country is rendered more expensive by taxes on the materials, 
from which other countries are exempt. I am not aware that, 
in the petition from the Shipping Interest in the port of London, 
praying for a continuance of the discriminating duties, the Peti- 
tioners ui'ge the direct taxation upon the materials employed in 
ship-building, as a ground of complaint. It has been alleged, that 
the Americans build their ships upon cheaper terms than we do. 
This I do not believe. Timber, I admit, is cheaper in the United 
States, but almost every other article employed in ship-building is 
as dear as, and several of them dearer than, in this country. 
Labour likewise is dearer, and the pay of the crew full as high as, 
if not higher than, in England. 

After all, there is nothing new in the complaints now made of 
the increased employment of the Shipping of the Northern powers, 



OF THE UNITED KINGDOM. 507 

in their trade with this country. Similar complaints were made 
after the American war. In the year 1786, the ship-owners repre- 
sented that our laws gave too great an advantage to foreign ships, 
and especially to the foreign ships employed in the importation 
of timber from the Baltic. 

In consequence of this representation, the Board of Trade of 
that day entered upon an inquiry into the subject. Mr. Reeves, 
in his work on the Law of Shipping and Navigation, states, in 
reference to this inquiry, that — 

" In the year 1786, it was observed, that the quantity of foreign 
ships employed in the importation of goods from Denmark, Nor- 
way, Sweden, and the East country, was much greater in pro- 
portion to the British, than the foreign tonnage employed in other 
trades; and that it was increasing in general, and the British 
shipping employed in some of these trades was, at the same time, 
decreasing. A reference was made, in consequence, to the Board 
of Customs, to see whether it might not be proper to augment 
the duty, called the Alien's Duty, or petty custom, on such of the 
goods enumerated and described in the eighth and ninth sections 
of the Act of Navigation as were then subject to it, and were 
imported from the before-mentioned countries ; and whether such 
increase would materially operate to increase the burthens on, 
and consequently the prices of, those articles, if such duty were 
increased gradually; that is, by making it double from the first 
of January, 1787, and treble from the first of January, 1788: and 
in ease the Board of Customs should be of such opinion, then 
they were called upon to consider, whether some advantage 
might not be given to British-built ships employed in those trades, 
by lowering the duties on those articles when imported in such 
ships ; or whether both these methods might not be pursued in 
such proportions as might best attain the end proposed, and not 
materially affect the revenue. 

As it does not appear that recourse was had to these expe- 
dients, it is to be inferred that, upon further consideration, it was 
found that it would not be safe to risk the experiment. The 
Northern Powers had not then complained of our existing alien 
charges upon their shipping ; they had taken no steps to coun- 
tervail those charges in their ports ; but did it follow that they 
would continue passive, if a question then at rest had been dis- 
turbed, by increasing those charges in the manner suggested ? 
In my opinion, to leave the question at rest, as long as possible, 
was the wisest policy for this country. It was the policy pin-sued 
until the matter was taken up, not by us, but by the United States 
of America, and in succession by other powers. In that state 
of things, and after the arrangements which we had entered into 
with those powers, acting upon the necessity of the case, I felt, 



508 STATE OF THE NAVIGATION 

in the course of the last session, that it would be better to make 
our laws upon this point square with our practice.; — better, as 
one general rule, — first, to tender to all nations alike, and indis- 
criminately, equal facilities of commerce and navigation, and 
equal inducements to visit the ports of this country with their 
merchandize, either for our own consumption, or in the way of 
transit {entrepot) to other parts of the world: — secondly, to 
abolish all discriminating duties affecting differently the like pro- 
ductions of foreign countries, and, in Heu thereof, to establish one 
uniform tariflf for the whole : — and, thirdly, to reduce that tariff 
to the lowest degree, consistent in each particular article with 
the two legitimate objects of all duties, — either the collection of 
the necessary public revenue, or the protection requisite for the 
maintenance of our own internal industry. These are the prin- 
ciples according to which our new Book of Rates has been 
formed, and the consolidation of our innumerable and, in many 
instances, inconsistent and contradictory Laws of Customs been 
affected. 

A few observations on our Commercial Policy, with regard to 
our Colonies abroad, will bring me, I hope, to the conclusion of 
this important investigation. The former colonial system of this 
country was simply this, that our possessions abroad should re- 
ceive all their supplies from hence in British shipping, and they 
were prohibited from trading directly with any other country. 
But so early as the year 1783, — the year in which we recognized 
the independence of the United States of America, it occurred to 
the Government at home, that it might be somewhat hard to re- 
quire of the West-India Colonies to draw all their supplies from 
the mother country. What, then, was the line adopted 1 Orders 
in Council allowing those colonies to trade directly with the 
United States of America in British Shipping, were passed, from 
time to time, as occasion required, and the Ministers, as often, 
came down to Parliament for Bills of Indemnity, for having so 
far violated the plantation laws. 

In process of time, however, the Government of the United 
States, jealous of a trade in which British Shipping alone was 
employed, said to this country, — " If you want the productions 
of our country for the use of your colonies, and will not allow us 
to send them in our ships, we will entirely prohibit the exporta- 
tion to your colonies in British Shipping, of those articles of which 
your colonies stand in need." They did so. The British Govern- 
ment had then recourse to another expedient, in order to avert 
the threatened inconvenience, and at the same time to avoid any 
positive alteration of our Navigation Laws. A sort of open mart 
or fair was established at some half-way place between the coast 
of America and the West Indies, to which the ships of the United 



OF THE UNITED KINGDOM. 509 

Slates came, and where, being met by our traders, the respec- 
tive parties interchanged commodities, according to their mutual 
wants. 

But the Government of the United States again interfered, and 
prohibited their ships from this trade. After a suspension of inter- 
course had continued for some time. Parliament, in the year 
1822, passed an Act, by which American ships were allowed to 
trade directly between the United States and our colonies in the 
West-Indies and North America. 

Now, let me ask, was it politic, was it altogether consistent 
with impartiality and our friendly relations with the North of 
Europe, to grant to the shipping of the United States, first, in the 
trade between them and this country, by the treaty of 1815; and, 
secondly in the trade, by this Act regularly legalized, between 
those states and our colonies, privileges which we continued to 
deny to the shipping of Prussia, of Denmark, of Sweden, of 
Hamburg, and of other trading communities of Europe ? Upon 
what principle of fairness, upon what principle of sound policy, 
were we to continue this preference exclusively to a power, 
towards which, God knows, I entertain no feeling of hostility, — 
far from it ; — but when lam speaking of that nation in a British 
House of Commons, it is not improper to say, that in matters of 
navigation and naval power, there exists towards us a spirit of 
rivalry in the United States ; — a spirit of which I do not com- 
plain, but which should incline every Englishman to doubt the 
wisdom of any measure, tending to encourage the growth of the 
commercial marine of America, by giving to it privileges greater 
than are permitted to the shipping of other states : — states less 
jealous of our maritime ascendancy in time of war, and, at all 
times, confining their views upon the ocean to the industrious 
employment of their sea-faring people, without looking to the 
ulterior object of, one day, disputing with us the dominion of that 
ocean. 

Considering therefore, the Act of 1822, and the changes which 
had taken place in the Colonial System of other Powers, it 
appeared to me, that the time was arrived when, upon ev^ery 
sound principle, it would be right to extend to the foreign ship- 
ping of Europe, the same privilege of trading with our colonies 
in the New World, which had been granted to the shipping of 
America ; and also to give a greater facility and extension to 
the intercourse between foreign countries and our colonies gene- 
rally; — strictly confining, however, to British shipping only all 
trade between this country and the colonies, and all inter-colo- 
nial trade between the different foreign possessions of the British 
empire. 

43* 



510 STATE OF THE NAVIGATION 

Whether we look to the interests of our commerce, which are 
also the interests of our navigation ; — whether we look to the 
separate interests of the colonies, or to the general interests of the 
parent country ; — or whether we consider the changes which 
have recently taken place, especially in the New World ; — all 
these considerations appear to me to concur in support of the 
measures to which I have referred, and the enlarged views of 
policy upon which they are founded. 

Shipping, like other branches of business in this country, is 
liable to fluctuation. There may be great excitement at one pe- 
riod, and great depression at another. Last year, for instance, 
the demand far exceeded the means of the British ship-owners to 
supply it. The price of freight for foreign adventures was, in 
consequence, so much raised as to become a very serious injury 
and interruption to other branches of navigation, especially to 
our Coasting trade. Yet, such was the unbridled rage for specu- 
lation which then prevailed, that our tonnage could not keep pace 
with it, and foreign vessels were taken up in every port of Europe, 
not from a preference, but because British ships could not be 
procured. This is not the proper occasion to inquire into the 
origin of the almost universal mania which appears to have seized 
upon merchants and manufacturers, not of this country only, but, 
more or less, upon those of other countries, during the last year. 
It is now too generally seen and admitted, even by those who 
were most infected by that mania, that their speculations were 
carried on without reference to the habitual scale of our con- 
sumption, or to the rapid accumulation of goods, or to any of 
those circumstances which, in their calmer moments, direct the 
operations of commercial men. When prices had risen, in the 
first instance, from natural causes perhaps, speculation soon forced 
a further and more rapid rise, and the only inference, for a time, 
among buyers, seems to have been, that it would continue pro- 
gressive, and almost indefinite. 

Connecting this rage for speculation with the employment of 
Shipping, the House will be surprised to hear in what a degree 
the quantity of bulky articles from foreign countries and from our 
possessions in North America, in the last year, exceeded the 
importations of former years. In the year 1822, the total import- 
ation of timber from foreign countries was 140,715 loads — in 
1825, it amounted to not less than 301,548. 

1822. 1826. 

Of flax cwts. 607,143 - - 1,042,956 

Of fallow do. 80.5,238 - - 1,164,029 

Of wool lbs. 19,048,879 - - 43,700,.553 

Of linseed bush. 1,411,137 ■ - 2,876,571 



OF THE UNITED KINGDOM. 511 

From British America. 

1822. 1825. 

Of timber loads, 34.'j,741 - - 467,56.5 

Ashes cwts. 13.5,983 - - 210,781 

Masts from all Parts of the World, 
Under twelve inches in diameter, No. 14,484 - - 19,016 
Above - do. - - - - loads, 4,-577 - - 8,698* 

The result of all this overtrading of last year, of which I have 
selected only a few instances, is the depression which now pre- 
vails, the interruption of commercial credit, the great diminution 
of employment for manufacturing labour in this country, and the 
general derangement of business in the countries with which our 
principal interchange of commodities is carried on. I deplore 
this state of things, not the less, certainly, because it is not con- 
fined to this country : and in alluding to the sufferings of others, 
I do so, not as a source of consolation to ourselves, but as evi- 
dence, that this derangement is to be traced to some cause of 
more extensive effect than the municipal regulations of this 
country- 
It would be matter of surprise if, amidst this almost universal 
stagnation of demand, the Shipping interest, which had fully par- 
ticipated in the extraordinary activity of the preceding period, 
should not partake of the languor by which it is now succeeded. 
In looking dispassionately at this or any other of the leading in- 
terests of this country, we must not draw our conclusions from 
extreme cases either way. We must also recollect that ship- 
ping, in common with every other mode of employing capital 
and industry, when it seeks a foreign market, is liable to be 
affected by a competition with other countries, and by acts of 
foreign states, over which we can have no control. As far as 
exclusion is within our reach, — in the coasting trade, — in the 
fisheries, — in the trade between this country and our foreign pos- 
sessions, we grant a strict monopoly to the British ship-owner. 
It is our duty to maintain and enforce that monopoly, not for his 
special advantage, but for the public interest. It is further our 
duty to give him every legitimate countenance and protection in 
the trade of this country with other maritime countries ; but if 
any branch of that trade is interfered with, either by new regu- 
lations in those countries, or by the erection of territories, once 
colonies, into an independent state, however we may regret the 
circumstances, as affecting our ancient navigation system, it may 
not be in our power to overrule those circumstances. 

In such a state of things, our policy must be, retaining the im- 
portant principles of that system as much as possible, to adapt it 

* Pari. Papers, Session 1826, v. xxii. n. 374. 



512 STATE OF THE NAVIGATION 

to the change in our situation, and to the altered relation in which 
we stand to the parties with which we have to deal. 

The first effect of such inevitable changes, either in navigation 
or trade, is, usually, more or less, to deiange the interests upon 
which they immediately bear: but the temporary difficulty is 
generally overcome by the speedy opening of fresh channels of 
employment, and is soon merged in the increased enterprise which 
attracts capital and shipping to some other quarter. This was 
the case after the separation of the British Colonies in North 
America; and I hope for a similar issue on the present occasion. 

We are all agreed that our Commercial Marine is the foundation 
of our naval power, and that the maintenance of that power is the 
paramount duty of those who administer the aflairs of this country. 
In an enquiry like this, therefore, the most important question for 
the consideration of the House is, not the detail of each separate 
branch of trade in which our commercial marine was employed 
in any particular year, but its aggregate amount at this time, com- 
pared with the aggregate amount at some antecedent period. 

Now, Sir, I have already stated what that amount was at the 
breaking out of the last war in 1793, and what it is at the present 
time. The comparison, taken by itself, certainly affords no ground 
for despondency or alarm. But, in making this comparison, in 
reference to our military marine, we are also to bear in mind, that 
in 1793, both the military and commercial marine of France and 
Spain were much more numerous than they are at present. The 
navy of Spain, once so powerful, has dwindled almost to nothing; 
her merchant-ships have nearly disappeared from the ocean. The 
navy of France is less numerous and less formidable than it was 
at the breaking out of the revolution, and her commercial ship- 
ping, though reviving since the peace, is probably, at this moment, 
not more than one-half of its amount in 1792. On the other hand, 
whether we look to the number of ships of war, to the means of 
manning those ships, to the general spirit which pervades every 
branch of the service, or to any other element of naval power, 
what a contrast between our situation at the close of the last and 
of the American war ! Can we forget the period when the com- 
bined fleet of the House of Bourbon was master of the British 
Channel, — when a West-India Convoy was obliged to assemble at 
Leith, and go north about, in order to escape capture by an ene- 
my's fleet, within sight of our principal sea-ports ? Can we forget 
when Gibraltar, blockaded by the united naval forces of those 
same powers, was relieved, as it were, by stealth ? — when it was 
considered matter of just praise to the highly-distinguished officer 
who commanded the British fleet on that trying ocasion, that in 
performing this service, he was able to elude the vigilance of a 



OF THE UNITED KINGDOM. 513 

superior enemy, and to return to England, without having risked 
a combat '( 

Tiiese are among the recollections which belong to the Ameri- 
can war. How ditlcrent from those which connect themselves with 
the war by which it was succeeded ! That our sway on eveiy part 
of the ocean was undisputed by the naval power not of France 
and Spain only, but of all Europe, before the close of the last war, 
is matter of notoriety. In fact, the British navy was then occupied 
in the blockade of every naval arsenal of its enemies ; and this, 
for tlie last years of the war, formed its principal employment 
in Europe. 

When we began that war, in the course of which we achieved 
so many victories, our commercial marine was three-fifths of its 
present amount. Our seamen in the King's navy, 16,000, instead 
of 30,000, their present number. We had then no reserve of vet- 
eran seamen, receiving for former services an annual allowance 
from the State. We have now such a reserve, amounting to many 
thousands, all of whom are liable, upon an emergency, to be called 
upon by the Admiralty, and of whom a large proportion would, I 
have no doubt, be found as efficient as before their discharge. Our 
ships, likewise, are in a more complete state, and better prepared 
with all the means of speedy equipment, than at any former period 
of peace. Never, I will venture to affirm, was there a time when 
the country might rest with greater confidence and satisfaction 
on the sufficiency of its naval resources than at the present. But 
we are told, and I am ready to admit it, that if the naval resources 
of France and Spain have declined, a new and formidable power 
has grown up in the United States of America. I have already 
stated, that the maritime means of that country had, from peculiar 
circumstances, been considerably benefited during the late war, 
which lasted so long, and spread so generally through Europe. 
But, if the commercial marine of the United States increased 
during that period, our owai advanced in a greater amount. Since 
the restoration of a general peace, the Shipping of both countries 
has rather decreased. The diminution in that of the United States 
has been stated at 168,000 tons, which I believe to be fully equal 
to any diminution that has occurred in this country. I am war- 
ranted, therefore, in concluding that, upon a comparison of our 
commercial marine with the connnercial marine of other powers, 
we have no reason to apprehend any of the difficulties now which 
the Petitioners predict, and that our naval means are fully ade- 
quate to any possible emergency which may compel us to call 
them into exertion. 

If, Sir, I have trespassed too long upon the time of the House, 
my apology, I trust, will be found in the vital importance of the 
subject. The severe distress, under which the country now la- 
3P 



514 STATE OF THE NAVIGATION OF THE UNITED KINGDOM. 

hours, is attributed, in some quarters, to the changes which have 
recently taken place in our Navigation System, and in our Com- 
mercial Policy. If any honourable members entertain that opinion, 
all that I ask of them is to come forward, and point out distinctly 
to the House the specific changes to which they ascribe these con- 
sequences. It is for them to show, if they can, by evidence, or by 
argument, the connexion of cause and effect between those changes 
and the difficulties in which the country is now, unhappily, involved. 
Let them give a notice, and appoint a day for that purpose. This 
would be the manly course to pursue, — it was the course taken 
by the honourable member for Coventry,* on the question of the 
Trade in Foreign Silks. For having taken this course I return him 
my sincere acknowledgments. To follow his example is the only 
favour I ask of those who heap abuse upon the measures in ques- 
tion, or who excite clamour out of doors, against the individual, 
upon whom has been devolved the task, however imperfectly exe- 
cuted, of submitting those measures, on the part of his Majesty's 
Government, for the approbation and sanction of parliament. 

The right honourable gentleman concluded by moving for 
copies of the several Accounts and Returns to which he had re- 
ferred in the course of his speech. 

Mr. Baring said, there was hardly a sing-le point in the elaborate detail of 
the right honourable the President of the Board of Trade, in which he did not 
concur; and he rose, not so much with the intention of following the right 
honourable gentleman's remarks, as with that of thanking him for the able 
manner in which he had developed his views, and for the general System 
which he proposed to adopt, with respect to our Domestic and Foreign Ship- 
ping. Mr. Hume repelled the outcry which had been raised against the prin- 
ciples on which the right honourable gentleman had been recently acting. 
Nothing, he said, could be more unjust than such an outcry: the evils under 
which the Shipping Interest now laboured, were not to be attributed to the 
change of system which the right honourable gentleman had introduced, but 
to the weight of taxation under which the country was labouring. Mr. Charles 
Grant said, that the great object which his right honourable friend wished to 
accomplish by his Statement of that night, was to prove to the nation, that the 
complaints made against him out of doors were utterly unfounded, and that 
the measures which he had introduced had not had any effect in diminishing 
the Commercial Marine of the country, but, on the contrary, had considera- 
bly increased it. The motion was agreed to, 

* Mr. Ellice. 



( 515 ) 



JOINT-STOCK COMPANIES FORMED DURING THE 
YEARS 1824, 1825, and 1826. 

DECEMBER 5th, 1826. 

This day, Mr. Alderman Waitliman called the attention of the House to 
the Joint-Stock Companies which had been formed during the last three 
years. They amounted, he said, in number, to no fewer than six hundred, 
and required, for the execution of their intended operations, a capital of many 
millions. He complained of the dishonest views with which they were 
originally set on foot; the knavery by which a fictitious value was, for a 
time, given to shares which had cost nothing, that the solid differences be- 
tween imaginary prices might fill the pockets of the gambling speculators; 
and of the misery and ruin produced by this systematic swindling. In par- 
ticular, he instanced the conduct of the Directors of the Arigna Mining 
Company, and concluded with moving " That a Select Committee be appoint- 
ed to inquire into the origin, management, and present state of the Joint- 
Stock Companies, which had been formed during the years 1824, 1825. 
and 1826, and to report the same, with any special matter touching the con- 
duct of any member of that House." Mr. Canning objected to the extent of 
the inquiry, which, he said, to be useful, must be limited and precise : but, 
as enough had passed to afford strong grounds for suspicion, that in the af- 
fairs of the Arigna Company there was matter deserving of inquiry, he 
would move an amendment, limiting the labours of the Committee to the 
management and history of that Company. Mr. Attwood entered into an able 
defence of Joint-Stock Companies, against the wholesale accusation brought 
against tliem by the honourable alderman. There was, he said, no more harm 
in buying or selling a share, than there was in purchasing or selling a shawl. 
For himself, he could safely say, that he was not aware of having ever been 
engaged in a single Company, wliich could be deemed derogatory to his sta- 
tion as a member of parliament. Were they, he asked, to infer bad conduct, 
because of the connection of a member with some of these Companies] If 
so, then even the right honourable the President of the Board of Trade waa 
not safe ; for, so far back as the year 1822, he had been connected with one 
of them ; but nobody doubted, that it was because he thought such Compa- 
nies advantageous to the Public, and because there were men amongst them 
of sound character and strict integrity. 

Mr. HusKisso.v said, that as an allusion had been made to him, 
it became his turn to explain Avhat had been his conduct, during 
the prevalence of the occurrences which had been so much 



516 JOINT-STOCK COMPANIES. 

alluded to. The honourable member for Callington* was, how- 
ever, under some mistake, or misapprehension, when he insinu- 
ated that he had had the least connection with any of these specu- 
lations. He could assure him, that neither directly nor indirectly, 
had he had the least share, or interest, in any Company which 
had been formed in the years 1824, 1825, 1826. He had, indeed, 
an interest in one of the oldest Insurance Companies of the coun- 
try, but it had remained of the same amount during the last 
twenty years. It was not, however, because he held a particu- 
lar situation under the Government, that he fell himself disqualified 
from applying his private property ta such beneficial purposes as 
fairly presented themselves to his view ; but the fact was, that he 
had never thought of embarking in these speculations, and, with 
the exception of some inconsiderable shares in two canals, one of 
them near his country residence, and the other locally connected 
with his interests in another point of view, he had never been in 
any way engaged in these Companies. 

If the honourable member alluded to the Company which had 
been formed to promote the growth of silk in Ireland, he would 
explain, in a few words, all the connection he had had with that 
Company. When the parties who had projected it came to the 
Board of Trade, he had specifically stated to them, that though 
he thought it a desirable experiment, and wished it to have a fair 
trial, and though, under other circumstances, he might have felt 
disposed to take an interest in it, yet, considering the situation he 
held, as President of the Board of Trade, he could not expose 
himself to the misapprehension that would be likely to arise from 
his so doing. When the parties applied to him, to know what 
number of shares would be taken, he informed them, that there 
must have been some misconception as to the intentions of the 
Government, which was desirous only of giving that degree of 
countenance to the exj)eriment, which might facilitate the object 
of providing employment to a large portion of the population of 
Ireland. Such was the nature of this application, and such the 
answer which had been given on the part of the Government ; 
and he defied the honourable gentleman to point out a single 
speculation, of any description, with which he had the slightest 
connection, either directly or indirectly. 

He had heard with great satisfaction the very sound and able 
vindication which the honourable member for Callington had been 
enabled, from his personal knowledge and individual information, 
to give of the benefit and utility of Joint-Stock Companies. It was 
extremely desirable that some explanation- should go forth to the 
Public, which might counteract the unmeasured condemnation 

* Mr. Attwood, 



JOINT^TOCK COMPANIES. 517 

which the honourable alderman had thought proper to pronounce 
upon these Companies. If there was one circumstance to which, 
more than another, this country owed its wealth and its com- 
mercial advantages, it was the existence of Joint-Stock Compa- 
nies. Its canals, its bridges, all its great works, hud been carried 
on by Joint-Stock Companies ; and it was an advantage peculiar 
to this country, that such important undertakings were conducted 
by individuals interested in their success: whereas, in other 
countries, where they were left to the care of the Government, 
they were often neglected and left unfinished. Many of these 
works had been extremely disadvantageous to the persons who 
had originally embarked in them. This had been the case with 
regard to the New River Company. It must be admitted, that 
there could hardly be a greater benefit to a populous city than an 
abundant supply of pure and wholesome water. The individuals, 
however, by whom this project was originally undertaken, were 
involved in great loss ; but, ultimately, the Public had derived the 
greatest benefit from it, and the successors of the first projectors 
had been amply remunerated. The same thing had happened 
with respect to many of our Bridges and Harbours : and, in 
general, it might be observed, that it was one of the circum- 
stances which distinguished this country above all others, that 
great and important works were conducted by Joint-Stock Com- 
panies — not always to the interest of the parties who embarked 
in such speculations, but uniformly to the interest and advantage 
of the Public. There could not, therefore, be a greater error, or 
a greater delusion, than that under which it had been attempted 
to cry dow'n Joint-Stock Companies as public evils. It was only 
in the last session, that eflJbrts had been made to prevail on the 
Bank of England, so far to relax its charter, as to admit of the 
formation of Joint-Stock Companies, with a view of rendering 
the business of Banking less hazardous; and the example of Scot- 
land was cited, where there was no impediment to the formation 
of such Companies. 

The honourable alderman had talked as if the formation of 
Joint-Stock Companies, for the purpose of carrying on the busi- 
ness of Mining, was a new discovery. He could, however, tell 
the honourable alderman, that all the great mining works in this 
country had been carried on, time out of mind, by Joint-Stock 
Companies. The mines in Cornwall and in Wales had been con- 
ducted by such Companies. No man could regret more than he 
did, that the law relating to Joint-Stock Companies was not more 
satisfactory ; for while its object should be to control the ex- 
cesses to which such Companies were liable, it should also afford 
proper encouragement to tliose by whom undertakings of public 
utility were first designed. It was, therefore, mischievous and 
44 



518 JOINT-STOCK COMPANIES. 

impolitic to pass a sweeping censure on Joint-Stock Companies 
generally, and it was no less unfair and unwise to take away the 
characters of those persons who might happen to be concerned 
in them. He would not dispute that there had been many Bub- 
bles, as they were called, which reflected deep disgrace upon 
those by whom they had been concocted ; but he must repeat, 
that many of the projects which had been formed were likely to 
conduce, in a large degree, to the public interest. The mischiev- 
ous effects of some of the late schemes and bubbles were but too 
visible in the ruin and destruction of many: and those individuals 
on whom guilt could fairly be fastened, deserv^ed that disgrace 
which their proceedings called for. Whenever the subject of 
those shameless speculators should be brought under the con- 
sideration of the House, he would raise, as he always had raised, 
his voice against them, as schemes fraught with fraud in some 
instances, and with hazard and obvious folly, in others. The 
honourable alderman had particularly alluded to the Brick Com- 
pany, and to the Milk Company, and some others of a like de- 
scription. Of these, and similar wild schemes, he had already 
expressed his opinion in that House ; and he had warned the 
public against connecting themselves with schemes which had 
evidently no other foundation than the folly or avarice of the 
projectors. He wished sincerely that the law was so constituted 
as to prevent parties from engaging in such delusions, and he was 
quite ready to agree with the honourable alderman, that when 
frauds and abuses, either in Companies or individuals, could be 
proved, they ought to be punished ; but while he thus far con- 
curred with the honourable alderman, he could not join in the 
clamour against a principle, which was one of the great founda- 
tions of our commercial prosperity, and which he considered 
essential to the best interests of the country. 

The amendment was agreed to, and a Committee appointed. 



( 519 ) 



BATTLE OF NAVARIN. 

FEBRUARY 12th, 1828.* 

Mr. HoBHOtisE moved, " That the thanks of the House be given to Vice- 
Admiral Sir Edward Codrington, Commander-in-Chief of his Majesty's Ships 
and Vessels in the Mediterranean, for his able and gallant conduct in the suc- 
cessful and decisive Action with the Turkish Fleet in the Bay of Navarin, on 
the 20th of October last." After the motion had been opposed by Mr. Bankes, 

Mr. Secretary Huskissox rose. He began by declaring him- 
self disappointed with the speech of the honourable member who 

* The following is a list of the Duke of Wellington's administration. 
Cabinet Ministers. 

Earl Bathurst Lord President of the Council. 

Lord Lyndhurst ------- Lord Chancellor. 

Lord EUenborough ------ Lord Privy Seal. 

The Duke of Wellington - - - - First Lord of the Treasury. 

Right Hon. Henry Goulburn - - - Chancellor of the Exchequer. 

T.- w XT Ti ,. . r. 1 S Secretary of State for the Home De- 

Right Hon. Robert Peel - - - < ^ ■' ^ 

" ( partment. 

Earl of Dudley Secretary of State for Foreign Affairs. 

Right Hon. William Huskisson - \ Secretary of State for the Department 
( of War and the Colonies. 

Viscount Melville President of the Board of Control. 

Earl of Aberdeen Chancellor of the Duchy of Lancaster. 

_. , -- /-,! , .-1 . ^ Treasurer of the Navy, and President 

R.ght Hon. Charles Grant - - ^ of the Board of Trade. 
Viscount Palmerston ----- Secretary at War. 
Right Hon. J. C. Herries - - - - Master of the Mint. 

Not of the Cabinet. 

H. R. H. the Duke of Clarence - - Lord High Admiral. 

Viscount Beresford Master-General of the Ordnance. 

_. , ^^ ^. , . . , ^ First Commissioner of Woods and 

Right Hon. Charles Arbuthnot - i v t 

J. Planta, Esq. - } Secretaries of Uie Treasury. 

G. R. Dawson, Esq. . - - - ^ 



520 BATTLE OF NAVARIN. 

spoke last. He was at all times unwilling to address the House 
unnecessarily, and he had therefore fondly anticipated that the 
result of the honourable member's speech would be the giving of 
a conclusive argument against the motion, and would thereby 
render it unnecessary for him to trespass on their patience. But 
he was sorry to say that he had not heard from the honourable 
member one word which appeared to him to bear upon the ques- 
tion before the House. The honourable member had been pleased, 
in a manner which was not, he thought, altogether consistent 
with the usual courtesy of parliamentary proceedings, to enter 
into a discussion upon the merits of our intercourse with France 
and Russia, and the different steps taken at various periods with 
a view to the pacification of Greece. Now, he really thought 
that, after the House had been told by the Ministers of the 
Crown the reasons which precluded them — very reluctantly — from 
giving to the House the information which could alone enable 
Parliament to come to a just conclusion on the subject, it would 
have been more fair and consistent to have adhered to the line 
very properly chalked out by the honourable member for West- 
minster — to have waived the consideration of the policy of the 
treaty, and to have confined his attention strictly to the motion 
which, he could not avoid saying, had been so indiscreetly brought 
before them. 

His honourable friend had said, that the object of the treaty, 
as he read it, was totally different from that of the protocol which 
was signed at St. Petersburgh in April, 1826. Now he utterly 
denied that position. It was necessary to look both to the treaty 
and to the protocol for the objects of the parties to them, and the 
motives which influenced the proceedings they had adopted. In 
both documents the objects which the contracting parties pro- 
fessed to have in view, and which they pledged themselves to 
effect, were the reconciliation of the Porte with Greece, and the 
pacification of the Levant. These were the objects which were 

Right Hon. W. Vesey Fitz Gerald - Paymaster of the Forces, 

Duke of Manchester Postmaster-General. 

Right Hon. T. Frankland Lewis - Vice President of the Board of Trade. 

Right Hon. Sir John Leach - - - Master of the Rolls. 

Right Hon. Launcelot Shadwell - Vice-Chancellor. 

Sir Charles Wetherell .... Attorney-General. 

Sir N. C. Tindal Solicitor-General. 

Ministry of Ireland. 

Marquis of Anglesey Lord Lieutenant. 

Sir Anthony Hart Lord Chancellor. 

Right Hon. W. Lamb Chief Secretary. 



BATTLE OF NAVARIN. 521 

brought prominently forward. His honourable friend had talked 
of fraud, conspiracy, trick, and violence; but he certainly could 
not have read the treaty of the Gth of July attentively, if he had 
not found that it was framed with the view of re-establishing 
peace between the contending parties, by means of an arrange- 
ment which was called for as much by humanity, as by the in- 
terest of the repose of Europe. The first article stated, "The 
contracting powers will offer to the Ottoman Porte their media- 
tion, with the view of bringing about a reconciliation between it 
and the Greeks." It could not, it appeared to him, be doubted, 
that the object of the contracting powers throughout was the 
general preservation of the tranquillity of Europe, and the recon- 
ciliation of the Porte with Greece. His honourable friend might 
quarrel with the means adopted to carry the treaty into effect. 
That point he would not now discuss ; but to the assertion, that 
the object of the treaty was not one of conciliation, he gave a 
most unqualified denial. 

He would not attempt to follovv^ his honourable friend through 
the arguments which he had raised on this most complicated 
question. It was sufficient for him to state, that for seven years 
the peace of Europe had been placed in jeopardy by a war which, 
if continued, could end in nothing but the extermination of one of 
the parties; and that a state of things existed which, when his 
honourable friend came to know all the proceedings of the allied 
courts, he would be satisfied, if not put down, would interrupt 
the general tranquillity of Europe, which it was the object of this 
country particularly to preserve, and which, if once broken, might 
lead to the most fearful and extensive consequences. His honour- 
able friend had expressed his surprise, how those who pretended 
to be the disciples of Mr. Pitt, could suppose they were promoting 
the interests of England, by venturing upon such an interference 
with the internal concerns of an independent nation, as the world 
had seen in the treaty of the Gth of July. Now he professed him- 
self to be one of those humble individuals who took a pride in 
adopting the policy of that great master mind; and he said, that 
the policy of this country, not only during the time of Mr. Pitt, 
but also during the time of Mr. Fox, and indeed during the time 
of all the distinguished statesmen who had directed its counsels, 
with reference to its interests being connected with the general 
peace and tranquillity of Europe, was not to interfere unneces- 
sarily with the domestic concerns of other nations, but certainly 
not to withhold our interference, whenever it became necessary, 
to re-establish the peace and harmony of the world, and to re- 
store a good understanding among contending powers. It was 
no departure from the law of nations, but a sound application 
of its principle, to interpose under such circumstances, whatever 
44* 3Q 



522 BATTLE OF NAVARIN. 

the honourable member for Dorsetshire might urge to the con- 
trary. 

His honourable friend had quoted the example of Holland in 
the year 1787, and had admitted that Mr, Pitt received the ap- 
probation of his great rival, Mr. Fox, for his interposition on that 
occasion. But under what circumstances, he would ask, did that 
interposition take place "? The King of Prussia thought that an 
insult had been offered by the states of Holland to his sister, the 
wife of the Stadtholder. Was that, it was asked, a fit object for 
British interference 1 Certainly not. But then there was a French 
faction in the country, which was obtaining a preponderating 
influence. If that were so, then what became of his honourable 
friend's principle that we were not to interfere in the domestic 
concerns of another, even for the preservation of that balance of 
power, without which it was impossible to hope for the continu- 
ance of peace ? Such never had been either the doctrine or the 
practice of those who had hitherto directed the destinies of 
England. We had endeavoured never to interfere gratuitously 
in the internal concerns of independent nations ; but whenever 
we had interposed, our interposition, when ably directed, had 
always been directed to effect one purpose, and that the preser- 
vation of the peace of Europe. He was quite sure that his hon- 
ourable friend, when he should hereafter peruse all the documents 
connected with and arising out of, the treaty of the 6th of July, 
would be convinced, that a war in the east of Europe, which 
would have placed the tranquillity of the whole of Europe in 
jeopardy, had been completely prevented by the interposition of 
England. 

He must repeat, over and over again, that he could by no 
means agree with the conclusion to which his honourable friend 
wished to bring the House, that the country had been guilty of 
gross injustice, in acceding to the treaty of the 6th July. He 
must tell him again, that the object of that treaty, the only end 
which it was intended to attain, was the same which w^e had in 
view, when we signed the protocol of St. Petersburgh — was the 
same which we had in view, during the time of Lord Strangford's 
residence at Constantinople, namely, the general pacification of 
Eui'ope without going to w^ar, and the prevention of that state of 
things, which if it once came into existence, must necessarily 
lead, at one day or other, to a general war throughout Europe. 
No one, he thought, would expect him to state, on the present 
occasion, what measures the Government was now adopting to 
give effect to that treaty. The reasons w^hy he should not enter 
upon such a statement w^ere too obvious to require repetition. He 
was therefore certain that it would be enough for him to state, 
that the Government was proceeding fully, fairly, and faithfully, 



BATTLE OF NAVARIN. 523 

to execute the treaty, in the same spirit in which it had entered 
into it in concert with our august allies. 

He had stated already, and he would repeat the statement, 
that he regretted extremely, that the honourable member for 
Westminster had brought forward his motion at this particular 
time. The honourable member seemed to think that there was a 
considerable advantage to the public service in having motions 
of this description — he meant motions for giving the thanks of 
Parhament to otRcers and men who had distinguished themselves 
in fighting the battles of the country — originated by individuals 
who were unconnected with the Government, and not fettered 
by the ties of party. The honourable member had stated, that 
there were occasions when such honours would be rendered more 
gratifying to the individuals on whom they were bestowed, by 
the circumstance of their having been proposed by the party 
which was in opposition to the Government, and which, there- 
fore, could have had no share in planning the expedition which 
they had carried to a successful termination. He could not pre- 
tend to deny the abstract proposition, that there might be such 
occasions, but sure he was that the present was not an occasion 
on which it would be either prudent or poUtic to make such an 
experiment as the honourable member for Westminster had 
recommended to the House. It was impossible for the honour- 
able member to be acquainted with all the circumstances which 
had reference to this transaction. The honourable member thought 
himself much better informed respecting them than he really was, 
for he had stated, among other things, that he knew that the re- 
port which had been made by a gallant friend of his, who had 
been sent into the Mediterranean to inquire into the circum- 
stances preceding the battle of Navarino, had been perfectly 
satisfactory upon all points. [Mr. Hobhouse. — I did not say upon 
all points, but upon most.] I can only say, (continued Mr. Hus- 
kisson), that if the honourable member for Westminster has that 
knowledge, his knowledge far exceeds mine. I do not mean by 
this to say, nor do I wish it to be understood, that there is any 
thing deficient in the explanation of the transaction, which has 
been sent home by the gallant admiral who commands in the 
Mediterranean. But I do say this, that no report has come to 
my knowledge, or, as far as I am informed, to the knowledge of 
any member of his Majesty's Government, conveying any opinion 
of my gallant friend to the effect stated by the honourable member. 
The honourable member assumes that his case is completely es- 
tablished on the report of the gallant officer to whom I before 
alluded. Now it so happens, that the gallant officer in question 
was not called on to make a report, and he has not, as far as I 
know, made any report. 



624 BATTLE OF NAVARIN, 

Before I proceed further into this part of my subject, I cannot 
help noticing the fact, that the honourable member for West- 
minster has more than once insinuated, that the great honour 
which he considers to be due to Sir Edward Codrington, and the 
gallant men who served under his command, is refused to him, 
owing to the changes which have recently taken place in the 
cabinet — owing to some paltry intrigue which he conceives to 
have been going forward, or, to use his own words, " owing 
to the better passions having been absorbed by domestic jeal- 
ousies." 

[Mr. HoBHOUsE : I did not speak positively, but hypothetically. 
I said — If Ministers act so and so towards Sir E. Codrington, 
people will say so and so of them ; and the conclusions to which 
future historians will come, will be, that the better passions were 
absorbed by domestic jealousies.] 

Mr. HusKissoiv said, he was happy to hear the explanation of 
the honourable member. He asserted, however, that there never 
had existed, on the part of any cabinet since the battle of Nava- 
rino, any, the smallest intention to propose the thanks of Parlia- 
ment to the officers and men who were engaged in that affair. 
He would tell the honourable member the reason why such an 
intention could not enter into the mind of any prudent and sen- 
sible Minister. It was this : — We voted the thanks of Parliament 
for triumphs over our enemies — we voted them to mark our 
satisfaction, that in a conflict, which we had foreseen and direct- 
ed, with a power against which we had declared war, the skill 
and gallantry and zeal of our officers had triumphed over the 
skill and gallantry and zeal of our enemies — and that they have 
maintained by that skill, gallantry, and zeal, the ancient supe- 
riority of our country above all others. But, could any reasonable 
man ever think of passing a similar vote on the present occasion, 
unless a precedent were quoted in justification of it from the re- 
cords of Parliament ? He was ready to maintain, that no prece- 
dent could be found which would justify the House in giving a 
vote of thanks to any officer for a catastrophe which ended in a 
lamentable effiasion of blood which we never intended to shed, 
and in the total destruction of the naval force of an ally whom 
we never intended to injure. Would it be right to mark our sense 
of such an accident, and he might say of such a misfortune, — for 
being an accident, it was also a misfortune, — by voting the thanks 
of Parliament to the authors of it, — he said it not invidiously, — as 
we should vote them for a victory obtained in a time of open and 
declared war? 

The honourable member seemed to think that he had found a 
case which ran completely parallel with the present, in the vote 
of thanks which was given to the officers and soldiers who were 



BATTLE OF NAVARIN. 623 

employed in the expedition which was sent to Copenhagen in 
1807. The honourable member felt how weak his argument was 
on this point; for he laboured exceedingly in endeavoui'ing to 
draw a distinction between approving the conduct and approving 
the policy of the war. Now with all due deference to the hon- 
ourable member, it appeared quite unnecessary to him to draw 
any such distinction. How many gentlemen were there who 
disapproved altogether of the policy of the war from its com- 
mencement to its close ; and who yet, whilst we were engaged 
in the war, never, when a case arose which called upon Parha- 
ment to acknowledge by its thanks the gallantry of our soldiers 
and our sailors, thought of mixing up the question of their 
gallantry with that of the policy which rendered a display of it 
necessary. He would now ask the House to consider what was 
the case at Copenhagen. Instructions were distinctly given to 
our commanders by sea and land to attack and capture that capi- 
tal, and to use their best exertions for the attainment of that 
object. They were likewise told, that they were to consider 
eight days as the utmost extent of the period during which they 
were to abstain from hostilities. It so happened that, before one 
of those eight days had expired, the King of Denmark issued a 
declaration of war against England. He would not now speak 
of the policy of the expedition to Copenhagen, as the honourable 
member did not pretend to dispute its wisdom, being now more 
enlightened as to the grounds on which it was sent out, than the 
individuals who attacked the justice of it at the time, without 
knowing any thing of the causes which led to it. It w^as sufficient 
for him to say that what was done at Copenhagen was done in 
consequence of direct and positive orders from the Government 
at home, and that we were, moreover, placed in a state of War 
with Denmark by the declaration of the Danish Government. 
But was this, or any thing like this, the state of affairs between the 
English and the Turkish Governments in the Mediterranean 1 No 
such thing. We were bound by the treaty of the 6th of July to 
interpose our forces between the contending parties, in order to 
bring about an armistice de facto, in case it could not be other- 
wise obtained. 

He would not enter into the question, whether Ibrahim Pacha 
had or had not broken the terms of the armistice which had been 
first made between him and the gallant officer who commanded 
our squadron. He believed that he had. He would only say, that 
the gallant admiral did not enter the bay of Navarino with a view 
of attacking the Turkish fleet, but with a view of obtaining, by 
his position, a compliance with the terms of the armistice which 
he had settled with its commander, Ibrahim Pacha. Upon enter- 
ing that bay, there ensued a scene in which the greatest skilli 



626 BATTLE OF NAVARIN. 

seamanship, and gallantry, were evinced by Sir Edward Codring- 
ton and every officer and man under his command. It was no 
small addition to the praise which the gallant admiral had obtained 
by his valour and skill, that he had eftected that, which it was not 
always easy to effect, when the forces of rival powers were em- 
ployed together for a joint object, that he had conciliated them by 
his conduct, and that he had so produced a unity of purpose and 
a harmony of design, which could not have been exceeded, if the 
force employed had been entirely British, and under the command 
of a British officer, as much beloved, as he understood Sir Ed- 
ward Codrington had the happiness of being by every man who 
sailed under his orders. 

Having made this statement, in which he assured the House 
that he was most sincere, he hoped that he should not hereafter 
be accused of underrating either the skill or valour of Sir Edward 
Codrington, because he could not accede to the present motion. 
The affair in which he had so eminently distinguished himself, 
was not a battle between enemies — it was an accident — a misfor- 
tune — which could not be foreseen, and perhaps, under the cir- 
cumstances, could n,ot be avoided : it was an event which, if he 
were talking of municipal concerns, he should style a chance- 
medley. He was convinced that it would be so called in the 
verdict, if a coroner's jury could examine into the merits of it. 
But it did not follow, that, because it was chance-medley, there 
might not have been exhibited in it as great gallantry and skill as 
were ever exhibited by the bravest men in the noblest exploits of 
either ancient or modern warfare. 

The honourable member for Westminster had made another 
groundless assumption to which he must beg leave to call the at- 
tention of the House. He had assumed, that his gallant friend, 
Sir John Gore, had been sent to make inquiries in the Mediterra- 
nean, because a foreign newspaper, the " Austrian Observer," had 
circulated sundry calumnies detrimental to the conduct and cha- 
racter of the British admiral. He could assure the honourable 
member, that this was the first time he had ever heard such a 
reason assigned for sending out his gallant friend. He could 
further assure him, that no such reason had ever influenced his 
Majesty's Government. The Government certainly felt that it was 
incumbent upon it to make further inquiries as to the character of 
the armistice which had been established in the Morea, between 
the officer in command of the British squadron, and the officer in 
command of the Turkish forces. The queries which had been 
sent out had received distinct and explicit answers. Those queries 
had been received, and they proved beyond a question, that there 
had been nothing precipitate or rash in the conduct of the officer 
commanding the British fleet. He stated this the more willingly. 



BATTLE OF NAVARIN. 527 

because he was sincerely anxious that Sir Edward Codrington 
should stand clear ot" all blame in a transaction which, under the 
circumstances, was perhaps unavoidable. But he was bound to 
say, that it was the duty of Government, to ascertain, by all pos- 
sible queries, that such really was the character of the transac- 
tion. The honourable member must be convinced, that it was an 
affair in which the country found much to lament, and that its 
issue was such as men of all parties could not fail to deprecate, 
so far as it regarded England ; for he would not enter into the 
feelings of the honourable member, and inquire whether it was a 
good issue, as terminating hostilities between Greece and Turkey. 
It might or might not have that effect — time alone would show. 
But what was most likely to have been its immediate eflect upon 
British interests? It might have led to the massacre of all the 
British subjects in the Turkish dominions, and to the confiscation 
of all their property by the Porte. Fortunately it had not pro- 
duced that result; but one of its negative effects was undeniable. 
It had not produced the execution of the objects of the treaty of 
the 6th of July, as contemplated by those who signed it, and 
wished it to be executed without the effusion of human blood. 

The honourable member for Westminster had next referred 
to what had taken place when we sent an expedition to Algiers, 
though I must (said Mr. Huskisson) confess my inability to per- 
ceive the manner in which those occurrences can be made appli- 
cable to the present subject. I can tell the honourable member, 
that the gross ignorance which prevailed at Algiers, respecting 
the extent of our resources and power, did not exist at Constan- 
tinople. Though the brother to the Sun and Moon, the lord of 
the Black, White, and Yellow Seas, the Master of Millions, as 
the honourable member tells us the Sultan styles himself — may 
look upon us as a set of traders, who do nothing but sell razors 
and buy raisins in the Levant, and may call our King the chief 
of a set of scissor-grinders, I can tell him, though the honourable 
member has spent some time in Turkey, and I have not, that the 
Reis Effendi is very well informed of every thing which passes in 
Europe, and is by no means deficient in the knowledge of Euro- 
pean politics. I can tell him further, that if the Reis Effendi was 
called upon to speak of our expedition to Algiers, he would be 
able to give the honourable member for Westminster more infor- 
mation respecting it than that which he at present enjoys. 

The right honourable Secretary then proceeded to examine 
into the history of the expedition sent to Algiers, under the com- 
mand of Lord Exmouth. The honourable member for West- 
minster said, that our fleet went to Tunis and Tripoli, and else- 
where, demanding and obtaining from the governors of those 
places, assurances that they would cease from their old practices 



528 BATTLE OF NAVARIN, 

of cruising indiscriminately against all Christian flags ; that our 
fleet next went to Algiers, where its demands were met, not with 
compliance but refusal ; that Lord Exmouth waited a few days 
before the port, and that he then proceeded to attack and bom- 
bard it. Now he had not looked recently at the history of that 
transaction ; but, as far as he recollected it, the true version of it 
was this : — Lord Exmouth returned from Algiers to England, and 
reported to the Government, that he had not been able to make 
the same agreement with the Dey of Algiers as he had made 
with the other Barbary Powers ; for the Dey declared that he 
would persevere in cruising against the Christian powers, and in 
holding their subjects in captivity. What then took place? Lord 
Exmouth was sent back to Algiers with a greater number of 
ships, and with instructions to compel the Dey to submission. 
The analogy, therefore, which the honourable member attempted 
to draw between that case and the present completely failed. In 
the first case, there was an expedition sent out for a specific pur- 
pose — of a hostile nature ; that purpose was executed, and Par- 
liament was consequently called upon to praise the skill and gal- 
lantry which distinguished those who took an active part. In the 
present case, the expedition was sent out for a pacific purpose ; 
and out of an unexpected collision with the Turkish fleet arose 
that victory, which, though it was honourable to our arms, was 
still not a subject for Parliamentary congratulation. 

He was not to be deterred from the strict line of his public 
duty by any appeals that might be made to his feeUngs, on the 
nature of the contest which had been so long raging between the 
Greeks and Turks. Though, as a private individual, he might 
have a strong opinion as to the character of the contest, and might 
sympathize with the struggles of a population which had for ages 
been ground down by the most intolerable slavery ; as a public 
man, he could not yield to the influence of such feelings. He 
would say at once, that such feelings were not suflicient of them- 
selves to warrant the interference of any foreign state in the con- 
test for the interests of the Greeks alone. If British interests 
were not endangered by the continuance of the conflict, we were 
not called upon to interfere, — nay, we were not justified in inter- 
fering, — on account of the cruel slavery to which the Greeks had 
been so long exposed. He was not to be deterred by the honour- 
able member for Westminster saying, that if we did not bestow 
a vote of thanks on Sir Edward Codrington, we should be unjust 
not only to him but to ourselves. He contended that the present 
was an exception from the general rule established in the other 
cases to which the honourable member had referred. He thought 
that he had demolished all the precedents which the honourable 
member had brought forward in support of his present motion; 



BATTLE OF NAVARIN. 529 

but even if he had not, still there was a wide difference between 
tliis case and all such precedents. It would be a bad proceeding 
to proclaim a triumph, and to indulge in the feelings of victory, 
M'here there had been neither an enemy nor a triumph. He did 
not doubt the gallantry, he did not mean to dispute the discretion, 
of Sir Edward Codrington; but he must say to the House of 
Commons, " Be cautious before you create a precedent of thanks 
for an event which grew out of an accident, lest olHcers, looking 
at the signal benefit conferred on them by receiving such thanks, 
should be found prone to cherish too easy a disposition to create 
such accidents, and lest such accidents so created should lead to 
consequences which the countiy may long have reason to rue 
and to regret." 

He was sorry to have detained the House so long on a ques- 
tion which, after all, lay in a very narrow compass. It surprised 
him more than all that the honourable member for Westminster, 
who seemed aw^are that he should not receive general support to 
his motion from the sober judgment of the House, and who knew 
well that if no change had taken place in the councils of his 
Majesty, no such a proposal as was then before the House would 
ever have been made to it; — it surprised him more than all that 
the honourable member, who, from feeling how his case laboured, 
had searched through the records of Parliament in order to find 
precedents in which thanks were conferred for brilliant actions 
like those at Navarino, should have overlooked one slight pre- 
cedent which made completely against him. The honourable 
member had referred to the great exploits of the illustrious war- 
rior who was now at the head of the Government, and who had 
received the thanks of Parliament no less than eleven times for 
his distinguished services. He believed there was no man who 
then heard him, who did not rejoice, and feel exceeding glad, 
that they had so often had an opportunity of thanking that great 
and able chieftain. He believed that to the exploits which elicit- 
ed those thanks we were indebted for the liberties of England and 
the peace of Europe; and he further believed, that it was the 
intention of that unrivalled captain to maintain by his councils in 
the cabinet, that peace undisturbed which he had been so instru- 
mental in obtaining by his sword in the field. He was surprised, 
he repeated, that the honourable member in his researches 
should have overlooked the little incident which he had before 
alluded to. Did the honourable member ever hear of that most 
distinguished victory, which the British forces achieved at Tou- 
louse? It was one of the most brilliant feats of arms in which 
the noble duke was ever engaged. He defeated Marshal Soult, 
— he drove him from an entrenched position which even his own 
officers conceived too hazardous to attack; and he displayed, 
45 3R 



530 BATTLE OF NAVARIN. 

during the whole conflict, a combination of valour, skill, and cool- 
ness, which had never been excelled before. But, though this was 
one of the most gallant achievements of the whole war, it was not 
noticed by Parliament ; because a cessation of arms had taken 
place before the intelligence of it reached England. In conse- 
quence of such unexpected forgetfulness, the late Duke of Norfolk 
had asked the noble lord, who was at the head of the government in 
the other House, whether it was not intended to thank the Duke 
of Wellington for that his last and greatest battle ? Unquestion- 
ably his noble friend felt that the importance and magnitude of 
that battle gave the noble duke a title to add another vote of thanks 
to the numerous votes which he had already received from the 
gratitude of Parliament. But what was the statement which the 
noble lord made in his place in Parliament 1 It was this, — that as 
the war had ceased, he did not intend to propose a vote, which 
might tend to keep up a spirit of exasperation between the two 
nations. 

Having stated that fact, he would now sit down, leaving it to 
the good sense of the House to decide, whether it would, in this 
case, create a precedent which, if created, would be attended with 
inconvenience to the best interests of the country. Had the con- 
flict which gave rise to this proposed vote of thanks taken place 
with a power with whom we were at war, he should not have 
had any reluctance, even though it was a barbarous power, to 
confer the honour of their thanks upon Sir E. Codrington and his 
brave followers; but under present circumstances, he was obliged 
to withhold it, not from any wish to impute the slightest blame to 
that gallant officer, but from a wish to guard the country from 
future difficulty and inconvenience. He would not move a nega- 
tive to the present motion, lest it should be supposed he meant to 
deny the gallantry and skill of Sir E. Codrington ; but he was sorry 
to say, that the reasons which he had stated to the House, con- 
vinced him that it was his duty to move the previous question. 

The motion was withdrawn. 



( 531 ) 

CIVIL GOVERNMENT OF CANADA. 

MAY 2d, 1828. 

In pursuance of the notice, that he would this day move for the appoint- 
ment of a Select Committee to inquire into the state of the Civil Government 
of Canada, 

Mr. Secretary Huskisson rose, and spoke in substance as fol- 
lows : — 

The subject to which I am about to call the attention of the 
House, on the present occasion, is one which, however it may 
bear — and it chiefly does bear — upon interests and feelings in a 
great degree removed from those which ordinarily affect our- 
selves, is nevertheless a matter of considerable importance. The 
question which I wish at this time to induce the House to in- 
vestigate is, whether those extensive, valuable, and fertile posses- 
sions of the Crown, known under the name of the Canadas, are 
or are not administered under a system of civil government, 
adapted to the wants, the well-being, and the happiness of nearly 
a million of British subjects, and to the permanent maintenance 
of those intimate relations of allegiance and protection, which 
ought always to exist between the colonies and the mother coun- 
try. If, upon inquiry, it shall be found, that the present system of 
government in those states is not well adapted to all these pur- 
poses, and that the remedy for the evil cannot be applied without 
the authority of parliament — it will be for parliament to deal with 
the question, with a view to the introduction of such modifications, 
improvements, and alteration^ in the existing system, as may ap- 
pear necessary. 

But, Sir, though considerable evils, and great and acknowledged 
defects may be found to exist in the present system, and some 
oversights may be discovered in its administration, it by no means 
follows, that any particular individual is responsible, or can be 
justly accused of occasioning those imperfections. Sir, the con- 
stitution under which the Canadas are now governed, was devised 
and introduced by some of the greatest statesmen that ever ap- 
peared within these walls. But when we consider how little the 
country in question was then known, and to what a limited extent 
its resources and interests were understood, it will not appear 
matter of astonishment, that in a country like Canada, imperfectly 
known, and so thinly peopled as it was when the present form of 



532 CIVIL GOVERNMENT OF CANADA. 

civil government was established, the system devised for its 
government should have been found extremely defective. Neither 
will it appear unaccountable, that, in the details of this system, 
there should be many difficulties which require to be removed, 
many imperfections which require a remedy, many omissions 
which it is now our duty to supply. 

In the great and leading principle of the present system — the 
strict maintenance, on the one hand, of good faith towards the 
descendants of the native French population in Lower Canada, 
and on the other, of extending to that province, as far as con- 
sistent with our engagements towards them, all the advantages 
of British institutions and British laws — there can, I think, be no 
difference of opinion in this House. Neither, fortunately, can 
there be any as to the right of this House to examine fully into 
the merits or defects of the present constitution of Canada, as 
established by the act which first granted that constitution — and 
to revise it in such manner, as to us may appear proper. I mean 
the celebrated Quebec Act of 1791. It is unnecessary to enter 
into any abstract or general argument upon this point; because 
not only does this right appear to be expressly reserved and de- 
clared by the very wording of the preamble of this act ; but if 
there could be any doubt on this point, it would be at once 
removed by a reference to the declarations made in this House 
at the time when it was introduced. On that occasion, Mr. Pitt 
expressly provided, that nothing which it contained should be 
held as not liable to such further alterations and amendments as 
circumstances might, from time to time, appear to require. It 
carries the principle of modification or repeal, even to the reserved 
lands, allotted for the use and maintenance of the Estabhshed 
Church in Canada. It is, therefore, clearly apparent, that we are, 
at present, quite as much at liberty to consider the act of 1791, 
with reference to the amendment of any imperfection or defect 
contained in it, as we are at liberty to consider, in a similar man- 
ner, any other act of the legislafure. I own that I cannot but 
think it very fortunate, that no doubt can exist upon this point. 
I am glad that the supreme power of the British Parliament to 
deal with defects or difficulties of this nature, and to reform the 
previous act of the Legislature, in regard to the government of 
our Canadian territories, cannot be disputed. I am the rather dis- 
posed to rejoice at this circumstance, because, standing aloof, as 
we do, from the party feelings and local jealousies of the Cana- 
dians, our decision will be the more respected ; first, as coming 
from a high and competent authority, and next, on account of our 
manifest impartiality. On both these grounds I am satisfied that 
the final determination of Parliament, with regard to the civil 
government of the Canadas, will be cheerfully received, and 



CIVIL GOVERNMENT OF CANADA. 533 

readily acquiesced in. In this view of the subject I confess I feel 
sanguine as to the result of our interference. I consider it cal- 
culated to allay the animosities of the Canadians, and, if wisely 
conducted, well adapted to place the system of government in 
our North American territories on a satisfactory and permanent 
footing; thus conducing at once to the manifest benefit of the 
colonies, and to the interests of the mother country. 

Now, Sir, I will not fatigue the House with any long detail of 
the constitutional and legal history of Canada, since it was first 
ceded to his Majesty's Government by the peace of 1703. But 
it is necessary to take a short review of the principal measures 
which have since been adopted by the Crown and by Parliament, 
for the government and settlement of these provinces. By the 
treaty of Paris in 1763, Canada was ceded to the British Crown, 
without any stipulation or obligation whatever with respect to 
the mode in which the Government was to be administered. So 
far from there being any condition or qualification connected with 
the surrender of these provinces, they were yielded up to Eng- 
land by France in full sovereignty and complete possession, as in 
the case of a new conquest. Perhaps it may be necessary to 
state, that the country was settled by the French about the year 
1660, when the first French governor was appointed. At that 
time the population was principally, if not wholly, confined to the 
banks of the river St. Lawrence, and the two tow^ns then built, 
namely Montreal and Quebec ; and at the period of the conquest 
the French settlers did not exceed sixty-five thousand. This was 
the utmost extent of the colony at this epoch of its history. But 
though the population was so very limited, and although it was 
placed under circumstances, and with wants and necessities, so 
different from what it could possibly have experienced in the 
mother country, it was nevertheless thought wise and just by the 
French government, to graft on so extremely limited a stock, the 
whole of the feudal system of France, as it existed in all its 
odious deformities, about the middle of the seventeenth century. 
We may apply to this conduct what has been said of those who 
built country-seats about the same period — that they adopted all 
the faults and sacrifices of comfort observable at Versailles, 
whilst they still wanted its grandeur. Such was the state of 
Canada under the French regime. The feudal system flourished 
in all its vigour among a small population, and in the midst of a 
desert. The mother country grafted upon the other institutions 
of her colony a law of succession — not the general French law 
of succession, which was that of primogeniture, but a system 
denominated "the Custom of Paris." vSo that, connecting the 
effects of this law of succession with the influence of the feudal 
system in Canada, while under the dominion of the French, the 
45* 



534 CIVIL GOVERNMENT OF CANADA. 

consequences to the colony were anything rather than beneficial. 
The lords paramount held direcfly under the Crown, and granted 
certain portions of lands to their vassals. These seignories (ac- 
cording to the law of succession to which I have alluded) were 
not capable of severance; but have been divided and subdivided, 
ever since the period of their first institution, because the holder 
of the land owed suit and service to the lord paramount. Now, 
however, they are subdivided into shares so minute as to be 
greatly to the advantage of those who administer the existing 
system of civil law ; at the same time that the circumstance is 
equally disadvantageous to the interests of persons possessing, or 
claiming to possess, property in them. Such is the natural con- 
sequence and effect of the complicated state of tenures in the 
Canadas. It was no longer ago than this morning that I saw in 
a Canada paper an advertisement of the sale of a' one-thirteenth 
of a hundredth part of a lordship. Some of the notices of sale 
in these colonies are extremely curious, and comprehend frac- 
tional parts of fractions of estates, of a nature to puzzle Mr. 
Finlayson himself, with all his skill in figures. We read con- 
stantly of the third of a seventh, and the half of a sixth of a 
lordship to be disposed of. I recollect a notice of the sale of a 
forty-fourth of a fourth of a tenth of a sixth share of an estate ; 
another, of an eleventh of a fourth of a fifth of a sixth ; and 
another of a forty-fourth of a fifth of a sixth. Under this curi- 
ous and rather puzzling state of the law, by which seignories are 
divided into such impracticable shares, it is almost impossible for 
any individual to tell to whom it is that he owes suit and service. 
Yet a great many duties are imposed under the feudal system, 
some of them to be paid in kind, and some in money. For 
instance, there are fines, annual duties on all alienations of pro- 
perty, and various rights and duties of a most vexatious and 
harassing nature. 

Sir, very shortly after the treaty, by which, in 1763, Canada 
was ceded to the Crown, the King of England issued a procla- 
mation, inviting such of his subjects as were so disposed to settle 
in the newly-acquired territory; declaring the royal intention 
shortly to confer a Legislative Assembly on the colony, and in- 
forming them, that all persons settling in the country should forth- 
with enjoy the benefit and protection derivable from British laws 
and courts of judicature. Until the year 1774, British laws were, 
as far as possible, introduced and carried into effect in the colony, 
British courts of justice were established, with proper judges to 
administer the law, and the whole system of British judicature 
was set on foot, according to the terms of his Majesty's procla- 
mation. The other part of the proclamation, however, contain- 
ing an assurance relative to the appointment of a Legislative As- 



CIVIL GOVERNMENT OF CANADA. 535 

sembly, was not carried into effect. In 1774, from the situation 
in which other provinces of America, then belonging to the 
Crown, were placed, it was not thought expedient, by the govern- 
ment of the day, to grant a Legislative Assembly to Canada. It 
appeared, about this time, that the Canadians were greatly at- 
tached to their original system of legislation, and not well satis- 
fied with that more recently introduced amongst them. Accord- 
ingly, it being thought desirable to conciliate the loyalty, affection^ 
and good-will, of our Canadian subjects at that juncture, in 1774 
it was, for the first time, mentioned in Parliament, that it would 
be desirable to pass an act of the legislature, not for the purpose 
of making good the assurance of 1763, but to recall all the 
pledges relative to the formation of a system of British jurispru- 
dence, and the establishment of British courts of justice. A bill 
was accordingly brought into the House of Commons, for the 
purpose of effecting this object. The preamble of the act was 
suggested by, and drawn up in compliance with, the M^ishes and 
feeh'ngs of the Canadians, and went upon the principle, that the 
French laws, to which they had been long accustomed, were 
well adapted to their situation and circumstances. The bill itself 
recalls all the declarations contained in the proclamation of 1763 ; 
and re-establishes the French laws and customs as they regard 
property, and the system of civil law, including the Custom of 
Paris. However, the same act makes provisions for retaining 
the administration of the criminal law of England in Canada; 
which, from 1774, was to be governed by the civil law of France, 
and the criminal code of England. 

Between the years 1763 and 1774, the Crown had proceeded 
to make grants of land in Canada, with a view to the settlement 
of the colony, by an additional number of new inhabitants. In 
all grants out of immediate lordships, the lands were held under 
tenures of free or common soccage, as contradistinguished from 
seignories. The holders were placed under the influence of an 
unintelligible system of law. One estate was held by common 
soccage, another by a different tenure. With respect to civil 
rights, as I have already said, the French law and administra- 
tion was established ; but the English system of jurisprudence 
prevailed in criminal matters. In the same year, 1774, another 
important act, and one well calculated to conciliate the favour- 
able feelings and loyalty of the Canadians towards the Crown, 
received the sanction of the legislature. By this act, it was pro- 
vided, that all customs and duties (and they are numerous, 
onerous, and oppressive), heretofore imposed on the colonists by 
France, and from the date of the conquest to that year payable 
to England, should thenceforth and for ever cease and determine. 
In lieu of these imposts, the act appointed other duties of a more 



536 CIVIL GOVERNMENT OF CANADA. 

easy and equitable nature; the produce of which was to be ap- 
propriated, not to the advantage of the mother country, but to 
defray the expenses necessarily attendant on the administration 
of civil justice, and the maintenance of the local government of 
Canada. 

In the memorable year 1774, besides these two boons to the 
Canadians — the restoration of the system of civil law, of which 
they approved and under which they had before lived, and the 
abolition of the French duties — another was conferred. This 
consisted in the recognition, by this country, of the established 
religion, and in a provision being made for its maintenance and 
support ; — a boon which I sincerely trust may never be with- 
drawn. I have spoken of these measures adopted by England, 
as boons to the Canadians ; for such they were certainly con- 
sidered by them at the time, whatever may have been the subse- 
quent effects of one of them : suffice it to say, they were aflbrded 
in a spirit of conciliation, and accepted with feelings of gratitude 
and satisfaction. Of the recognition and establishment of the 
prevailing religion in Canada, in 1774, I have already spoken in 
terms of approbation, and have only to repeat my hope, that the 
gift may never be disturbed. No doubt, it was thankfully receiv- 
ed, and is gratefully remembered. The restoration of the system 
of French law, and administration in civil cases, was, in all pro- 
bability, quite as much prized at the time by the parties, as the 
provision made for recognising their religious faith. I am satis- 
fied, however, that if not then restored and re-established, the 
laws in question (which are unfriendly to commerce, and repug- 
nant to enlightened principles of unrestricted dealing) would soon 
have disappeared under the influence of British enterprise. But, 
passing by this topic for the present, I may be allowed to remark, 
that the abolition of the French duties, and the imposition of other 
and less burthensome taxes, the proceeds of which were applied 
to the support of the Colonial Government and institutions, was 
a considerable benefit to the Canadians. 

In 1778, a law was passed in this country, which, although not 
immediately bearing upon, or having reference to, Canada, was 
yet of considerable importance, as well to that as to our other 
colonies. I allude to the Declaratory act, by which this country 
relinquished all future right to tax its colonies ; granting thepi the 
power to impose duties themselves, which duties were to be 
applied to the support of their own institutions and establishments, 
and were not to form part of the revenue of Great Britain. At 
this time there existed, perhaps, a doubt, as to whether the act 
applied to Canada. Some thought that the bill was only meant 
to apply to our colonies in the West Indies, and to those places 
in America that retained their allegiance to England, and had 



CIVIL GOVERNMENT OF CANADA. 537 

legislative assemblies of their own, which were hereby authorised 
to tax themselves. But, however the fact might be,'in this state 
Canada remained until the year 1791, when it was thought neces- 
sary by Mr. Pitt to introduce his bill, since known by the appel- 
lation of the " Quebec Act." This law attracted moVe notice at 
the time of its enactment, principally on account of the then state 
of parties in the House of Commons, than it might, in all proba- 
bility, have otherwise done, by reason of its intrinsic interest or 
importance. Mr. Pitt thought it no more than what was due to 
the growing importance and wealth of Canada, to give that colony 
a popular representation. By one of the provisions of this act, 
the right and control over ail imposts was vested in an assem- 
bly, to be so constituted. We should bear this circumstance in 
mind, because what now exists has reference to this act. By the 
act of 1774, the system of civil law of the colony was establish- 
ed, and provisions were made for the support of its government, 
by means of moderate duties then imposed. Under the act of 
1791, all duties were to be imposed and appropriated as the 
colonial legislature should determine. Another object of the act 
was, to divide the colony into two separate provinces — Upper and 
Lower Canada, — giving to each a separate legislature. It was 
considered desirable to encourage loyalists and disbanded sol- 
diers to become settlers in Upper Canada, w^here there were no 
French settlers, and where no feudal system was in operation. 
The act provided, that in the province of Lower Canada, the 
ledslative assembly should consist of not less than fifty members, 
while in Upper Canada (then about to be settled) the population 
being more scanty, the minimum of members of assembly was 
fixed at fifteen. In Upper Canada the assembly was to be in- 
creased, as the province should become more thickly peopled. 
These details were left to those who administered the government 
in the colony. The gallant officer who administered the govern- 
ment of Canada in 1792, divided the lower province into eighteen 
counties, each sending two members to the assembly: three coun- 
ties sending each one representative; two cities privileged to 
elect four members; one town sending two members, and one 
electing one representative; making a total of fifty. What I 
complain of is, that the representation was not equally distributed. 
It was a great error to take the density of population many years 
ago, and apply it, as a permanent standard, to the number of 
representatives to be chosen for particular places and depart- 
ments. The effect of this erroneous principle has necessarilv 
been, to throw the chief power of representation into the hand's 
of the seignories. The same defect exists in Upper as in Lower 
Canada. The English settlers are excluded from a fair partici- 
pation in what ouirht to be a popular representation, and tho 
3S 



638 CIVIL GOVERNMENT OF CANADA. 

power of election is thrown into the hands of the descendants of 
the French. 

Sir, I state these complaints with the more confidence, because, 
in all parts of Canada, it is agreed that the present system works 
so ill as to stand in need of alteration. Under the present prac- 
tice, the English settler is exposed to great inconvenience, and 
suffers an exclusion from advantages, of which it is only just that 
he should enjoy a reasonable share. I allude now to the condition 
of our countrymen in Lower Canada ; but, in doing so, I do not 
desire to make it a matter of charge against those who represent 
the French seignories, that they act as they do. It is the system, 
and not the individuals that requires reformation. There is no 
possibility of suing or being sued, except in the French courts, 
and according to the French form and practice — no mode of 
transacting commercial business, except under the French cus- 
toms, now obsolete in France itself In Lower Canada, they go 
upon the law and system of feudal tenure, and the law is more 
incapable of ever being improved or modified by the progress of 
information and knowledge, than if it still remained the system 
of France and the model of her dependencies. Here in the midst 
of a wilderness flourishes the French feudal system, and the cus- 
tom of Paris of centuries ago. The result is, that Englishmen in 
Canada are as much hke aliens and settlers in foreign land, as an 
equal number of British subjects, who should have sat down in 
the centre of France in the thirteenth century. 

It is not, therefore, to be wondered at, Sir, that our country- 
men have had to encounter considerable difficulty in Lower 
Canada, and that but a slow progress has been made towards the 
settlement of that province, as compared with the Upper. In 
fact, the inconvenience of the existing condition of things cannot 
be well understood in this country. In this colony the law of 
mortgage is in the worst state. The registration of deeds is 
another point deserving attention ; and the laws and usages re- 
lating to the formation of roads are those of the old French 
feudal system. The consequence has been, that in the last fifteen 
years not one single road-bill has been passed by the legislative 
assembly of that province. Thus, there is no opportunity afford- 
ed to the English townships of communicating with the river St. 
Lawrence, except by some of its tributary streams, on account 
of the interposition of the seignories between them and that river. 
In the same manner, another part of what I consider an impor- 
tant public duty in a legislative assembly is overlooked. I mean 
the education of the children of the settlers. That is a subject 
never thought of In point of fact, the state of things is such, 
that the settlers feel more disposed to connect themselves with 
those districts which border on the United States, where they can 



CIVIL GOVERNMENT OF CANADA. 539 

have their wants of this description supj)lied, and receive the 
benefits of the administration of justice, than to remain in the 
country to which they owe allegiance. 

These evils, Sir, have, I regret to say, been of some standing, 
but they have been more severely felt, as the capital and popula- 
tion of this country have been directed to these colonies, and as 
they have become of greater in)portance to the interests of the 
mother country. Having become sensible of the evil, the ques- 
tion now arises as to what remedy shall be applied to it. One 
was suggested, and attempted to be carried into effect, about four 
years back, by which the two legislatures were to be incoi'porated 
into one ; that is, the Upper, or English part of the province, was 
to be reunited under one Government, with the French or Lower 
part of it. There were various grounds on which the bill which 
my right honourable friend introduced with that view was op- 
posed ; but the principal one, I believe, was the lateness of the 
period of the session at which it was brought forward. That 
bill, therefore, did not pass. Whether the remedy it proposed is 
the best that can be imagined, I will not undertake to say ; but it 
is certainly open to many serious objections. Those, however, 
will be proper subjects for the consideration of the committee 
which I mean to propose. Another remedy that has been sug- 
gested is to form all the English townships, as they are, for the 
sake of distinction, called, into a third province. To that scheme 
also the objections are numerous and serious. Indeed, none have 
been devised that are not subject to many objections. It will be 
the duty of the committee to point out that course which presents 
the fewest, to reconcile the conflicting pretensions of the difierent 
parties, and thus to remove the great obstacles to the improve- 
ment of this important colony. 

But, Sir, these are not the only considerations that have in- 
duced me to recommend the House to take into its consideration 
the state of the civil government of Canada. Besides the ob- 
stacles I have mentioned, as lying in the way of the happiness 
of this colony, another, of a most formidable nature, has grown 
up out of the state of the representative system, as I have de- 
scribed it. I allude to the disputes which have arisen, concern- 
ing the extent of control which the colonial legislature should 
have over the public revenue of the colony and its fiscal regula- 
tions. I have already stated that, in 1774, all the taxes that had 
been imposed under the French regime were abrogated, and other 
duties levied in their stead, which were appropriated by the Crown 
to defray the expenses of the administration of justice, and of the 
civil establishment of the colony. The duties, thus levied in lieu 
of the old French ones, I may describe technically as the per- 
manent revenue of the Crown. It amounts to about 35,000/. per 



640 CIVIL GOVERNMENT OF CANADA. 

annum, and has been applied to the purposes for which it was 
appropriated by the act of 1774. Besides this, the Crown has a 
small revenue called "the casualty revenue," which consists of 
fines, forfeitures, and other in-comings, belonging to the Crown, 
as the Lord Paramount. This revenue amounts to about 5,000/. 
per annum, and is at the absolute disposal of the Crown; but 
this also has been appropriated to the civil services of the coun- 
try. The remaining revenue of the colony arises from taxes im- 
posed since 1791, by the colonial legislature. Part of this reve- 
nue the Assembly has appropriated specifically to discharge the 
expenses of its own sittings, and part to the improvement of the 
navigation of the river St. Lawrence. The remainder has been 
appropriated by the legislature to the diflerent expenses of the 
colony generally. The amount thus collected by the taxes im- 
posed by the Assembly has been, upon an average, about 140,000/. 
per annum. There are also some small sums raised, by virtue 
of acts of this House, passed for the purpose of regulating the 
trade of the colony. 

For some time after the passing of the act in 1774, nothing 
could go on more smoothly than the system it established. The 
Crown had divested itself of the power it had over the perma- 
nent revenue; and the sum raised under that name, although 
small, was sufficient for the maintenance of the civil service, and 
of the judicial establishments. Afterwards, however, the neces- 
sity of making roads, and numerous other expenses, incidental to 
a rising colony, rendered this sum insufficient. It became neces- 
sary, therefore, to raise a larger sum ; and this was done by the 
authority of the House of Assembly. By what degrees, in what 
manner, and under what circumstances, a difference grew up 
betvveen the local legislature and the executive government, it is 
not necessary for me to trace, for any of the purposes which I 
have now in view. The present state of the controversy, how- 
ever, is of this nature. The House of Assembly of Lower 
Canada claims the right of appropriating the permanent revenue, 
item by item; that is to say, the right of deciding what branches 
of the civil service, and what of the judicial establishments, 
should receive their incomes, and in what portions, from this fund. 
On the other part, it is maintained, and, as it appears to me, in a 
manner absolutely incontrov^ertible in law, that the Crown pos- 
sesses over this revenue a discretionary power, as to the propor- 
tions in which it is to be distributed, provided it be for purposes 
directed by the act. I believe there is no lawyer who will deny, 
that as long as the Crown appropriates that revenue to the ad- 
ministration of justice in Canada, and to its civil government, 
pursuant to the words of the Act of 1774 — as long as it fulfils 
all the conditions required by good faith towards the Canadians, 



CIVIL GOVERNMENT OF CANADA. 54I 

— it has a right to prescribe the mode in which the revenue, con- 
sistently with that Act, shall be expended. There is no one who 
will not say, that the pretensions of the legislative body to take 
the whole management of this money into its own hands, are 
neither founded in law^ nor practice. On the other hand, the 
House of Assembly holding the public purse in its hands, having 
the complete command of the general revenue, in order to en- 
force its unreasonable pretensions, have refused to appropriate 
any part of the larger revenue, of which they have the command, 
unless the appropriation of the permanent Crown revenue be 
given up to them also. 

This, Sir, is the state of the controversy betw^een the executive 
and legislative body in Canada. The consequences of the agita- 
tion of such a question as this, in which both parties have stood 
upon their extreme rights, have been most unfortunate. One of 
the consequences has been, the necessity under which the repre- 
sentative of the King has found himself, of appropriating money 
for the necessary services of the colony, without the sanction of 
the colonial legislature. Such a thing as this, in a country with 
a legislative assembly, can only be justified by the absolute ne- 
cessity of preventing general confusion, and the subversion of the 
government. I do not stand here — living as I do, in a country 
where the rights of the popular branch of the legislature to con- 
trol the expenditure of the money it raises are so well known and 
universally acknowledged — to defend the abstract propriety of a 
governor of a colony, appropriating its revenue without the sanc- 
tion of an act of the legislature, as required by law ; but, pressed 
by necessity, it ought not, perhaps, to be wondered at, however 
we may regret the necessity, that a governor should take all the 
means in his power to maintain the tranquillity of the colony 
committed to his charge. When principles are pressed to the 
extreme, a legislature may, no doubt, distress the executive 
government of a country, and so wear it out by continued oppo- 
sition, as to have the point in dispute conceded; but what, in the 
mean time, are the unfortunate results to the people ? — what, in 
the midst of these conflicts, has been the result to the province of 
Canada 1 Nothing is expended, of the money raised in this irregu- 
lar manner, but what is absolutely necessary to carry on the 
government of the province : all improvement is at a stand, the 
roads are neglected, education overlooked, the public buildings 
suffered to fall to decay, and the country generally brought to 
such a state that there is not a Canadian whose interests do not 
suffer. 

Sir, the recurrence of such a state of things it is our duty to 
prevent ; and I think I have made out a case sufficient to con- 
vince the House, that, if we have the right and the power, the 
46 



542 CIVIL GOVERNMENT OF CANADA. 

time is arrived which warrants me in calling upon Parliament to 
interpose its authority, for the purpose of quieting these feuds, and 
of establishing such a system of civil government in Canada, as 
may give a fair share to all parties in the province, of the ad- 
ministration of the revenues, so as to render them available for 
the improvement of the country — such a system as will, on the 
one hand, give to the Legislative Assembly the power of direct- 
ing the whole application of the funds appropriated for the internal 
improvement of the province ; and, on the other, restrain them 
from the exercise of any authority over what I may call the civil 
list. Every man who knows any thing of the country must be 
aware of the unfitness of the King's representative in the govern- 
ment, and the judicial establishment for the administration of 
criminal justice, which is the same as that of England, depending 
for their stipends upon the varying judgments of a popular as- 
sembly. The inexpediency of this, with regard to the judicial 
establishment, which in its administration of justice might often 
come into collision with the members of the Assembly, whose 
judgment is every year to regulate the reward of their services, 
must be particularly obvious. Judges have duties to perform, which 
render it essential that they should be perfectly independent. 

I trust I need say no more to convince the House, that the 
system wished to be established by the Canadian legislature is not 
compatible with the independence and dignity, either of the King's 
representative or of the criminal judges. Out of what particular 
fund these charges should be defrayed, I am not prepared to say; 
but the present plan of paying a fixed sum out of a variable 
revenue, I certainly think might be amended. I think some mode 
might be found, for establishing what I have styled the civil list; 
from which the salaries of the judicial and other departments 
should be granted for life, or in any other way that would answer 
the object I have in view. The remainder of the revenue should 
then be left at the free disposal of the Colonial legislature. And 
I must here, in justice to the King's government in Canada, claim 
for them their due. So far were they from wishing to have the 
control over any further sum than that to which I have alluded, 
that they have never hesitated, during the whole of these troubles, 
to lay before the legislature of the province an account of the ap- 
plication of the revenue, in order that the Assembly might be 
assured there was no misapplication of it. From this it is evident, 
that the government there are perfectly willing to accede to the 
suggestion I have just made, respecting the share of control which 
it shall have over the colonial revenue. 

Sir, I do not think there are any other topics connected with 
the present state of Canada, which would justify me in detaining 
the House longer, as I trust I have said sufficient to support me 



CIVIL GOVERNMENT OF CANADA. 543 

in the motion with which I shall conclude. There are two 
grounds on which I principally rest. The first, is the state of the 
representative system in Lower Canada, and the situation of the 
revenue in respect to the administration of justice; the second, is 
the controversy which has grown up respecting the powers of the 
executive and legislative bodies. The case I have made out on 
those two points is sufficient, I trust, to entitle me to the commit- 
tee for which I am about to move. 

Sir, I should now have concluded all that I feel it necessary to 
state to the House on the present occasion, if I had not witnessed 
in some quarters, and I may say in some degree in this House, a 
disposition to think that ail enquiry and concern about Canada 
are unnecessary, and that the public interest of this country would 
be best consulted by our at once relinquishing all control and 
dominion over these possessions. Sir, it is very easy, but 1 must 
say it is the proof of a very shallow mind, to lay down a rule of 
this sort. In British America there are nearly a million of our 
fellow-subjects, born like ourselves in allegiance to the Crown of 
this country, anxious to remain in that allegiance, — fulfilling all 
the duties of it, and having as good a right as ourselves to claim 
for their persons and property the protection which is the conse- 
quence of that allegiance. Is this country, without necessity, 
without that right being challenged by any one, to incur the in- 
delible disgrace of withdrawing that protection ? In contemplat- 
ing such a question, I will not allow myself to say one word of 
the advantages, naval, commercial, and political, which we derive 
from our connexion with our colonies. But I may be allowed to 
speak of the political character of the country — of the moral im- 
pression throughout the world of such an abandonment as is here 
proposed, I may be allowed to say, that England cannot afford 
to be little. She must be what she is, or nothing. It is not Canada 
estimated in pounds, shillings, and pence — but the proudest tro- 
phies of British valour, but the character of British faith, but the 
honour of the British name, which we shall cast off', if upon such 
considerations as I have heard, we cast offCanada from our pro- 
tection. We cannot part with our dominions there, without doing 
an injustice to their fidelity and tried attachment, and tarnishing 
the national honour. We are not, Sir, at liberty to forego the 
high and important duties imposed on us by our relative situation 
towards those colonies. It is a country where no distinctions pre- 
vail, such as disturb some of our other territorial possessions 
abroad. There are no distinctions of castes, no slavery, which 
tend to engender dissention and disaffection. We have every- 
where displayed marks of a paternal government, and planted 
improvement, not only on our colonies there, but wherever our 
empire is acknowledged. 



544 CIVIL GOVERNMENT OF CANADA. 

Sir, England is the parent of many flourishing colonies — one 
of them is become an empire among the most powerful in the 
world. In every quarter of the globe we have planted the seeds 
of freedom, civilization, and Christianity. To every quarter of 
the globe we have carried the language, the free institutions, the 
system of laws, which prevail in this country ; — in every quarter 
they are fructifying and making progress ; and if it be said by 
some selfish calculator, that we have done all this at the expense 
of sacrifices which we ought not to have made, my answer is, — 
in spite of these sacrifices, we are still the first and happiest people 
in the old world ; and, whilst this is our lot, let us rejoice rather 
in that rich harvest of glory, which must belong to a nation that 
has laid the foundation of similar happiness and prosperity to 
other nations, kindred in blood, in habits, and in feelings to our- 
selves. 

But, Sir, whether Canada be to remain for ever dependent on 
England, or to become an independent state — not, I trust, by 
hostile separation, but by amicable arrangement — it is never- 
theless the duty, as it is the interest, of this country, to imbue it 
with English feeling, and to benefit it by English laws and Eng- 
Ush institutions. I move, Sir, " That a Select Committee be 
appointed, to inquire into the state of the Civil Government of 
Canada, as established by the Act 31 Geo. III., c. 31, and to re- 
port their observations and opinions thereupon to the House." 

The motion was agreed to. and a committee appointed. 



( 545 ) 



PROVISION FOR THE FAMILY OF MR. CANNING. 

MAY 13th, 1828 

The House resolved itself into a committee on the Officers' Pensions Bill, 
in which the Chancellor of the Exchequer moved, that the sum of 3,000Z. a 
year siiould be settled on one of the branches of Mr. Canning's family, and 
be vested in trustees for the use of his family. After the motion had been 
supported by Lord Morpeth, Sir Robert Wilson, Lord George Bentinck, and 
opposed by Lord Althorp, Sir M. W. Ridley, Mr. Hume, and Mr. Bankes, 

Mr. Secretary Huskisson said, that having been one of the 
nearest and dearest friends of the late Mr. Canning, and having 
been connected with him by the closest ties of personal attach- 
ment, throughout rather a long political life, he felt perfectly 
sensible, before he came down to the House, that, were he to 
appear prominent in this debate, he should be liable to the re- 
flection of being actuated by that bias, which this connection 
would naturally suggest. He had, therefore, been anxious not 
to say one word upon the subject before the House. But, after 
the speech of his honourable friend* who had spoken last, and 
spoken in such a manner of his lamented friend — [here Mr. 
Huskisson laboured under strong emotion, and was loudly cheered 
during a momentary pause] — he could not sit silent; and with 
all these disadvantages pressing around him, he could not 
refrain from giving vent to the feelings which agitated his 
bosom. 

His honourable friend had laid great stress upon what he was 
pleased to call this mischievous precedent, and had asked the 
Chancellor of the Exchequer, whether he wished to establish 
such an example as this grant would afford ? Now, his right 
honourable friend meant, on this occasion, to establish no pre- 
cedent ; and he must say, that he looked with some surprise at 
the attempt which was made to dwell upon this proposition, as 
one which constituted a serious precedent. What was the fact ? 
Because the Parliament had, on a former occasion, taken away 
from the Crown certain offices, which having little duties, or 
being sinecures, were no longer deemed desirable to be upheld, 
but which had been previously bestowed as a reward for eminent 
services, and vested this power in the Crown by way of indem- 

* Mr. Bankes. 
46* 3T 



546 PROVISION FOR THE 

nity, they were to be told that they were creating a new office, 
and proposing an extravagant waste of the public money. He 
remembered that, when the new arrangement was made, by 
which the Crown surrendered its prerogative of rewarding by 
offices of this description, it was asked, would they limit the 
Crown by the new act, and shut it out from the means of reward- 
ing able and faithful services'? To this it was at the time answer- 
ed — he forgot whether it was by his honourable friend himself — 
that, whenever a special case arose, it could only be necessary to 
apply to Parliament, where a desire would always be found to do 
justice to eminent services performed for the state. In this spirit, on 
this occasion, ministers had come to Parliament. And, how were 
they met 1 Not by a fulfilment of the former pledge ; but by an 
exclamation — " You are going to create a most dangerous pre- 
cedent." The answer was, they were not going to create any 
such evil, but were merely calling upon Parliament to fulfil its 
own expressed anticipation of claims, for the performance of 
meritorious services to the state. The Crown had, upon condi- 
tions, surrendered that which it need not have otherwise conced- 
ed ; and it was hard to say, when ministers now came forward in 
the full spirit of the contract, that they were attempting to intro- 
duce a most dangerous precedent. What had the dead-weight 
act to do with this discussion, seeing that the real object was to 
give efficacy to an act which was entirely within the spirit of his 
honourable friend's own principle of economy? The arrange- 
ment which pervaded the act given to the Crown, when the sinecure 
offices were abolished, was simply this: — the Crown was empow- 
ered to grant six pensions, not exceeding in the aggregate, 40,000/. 
a year, to ministers who had performed eminent public services, 
according to their different stations and degrees. If the Crown 
were in course of paying the whole of this sum (which was not 
the case), the public would have no right to complain, according 
to the strict terms of the agreement ; for it was a compensation 
given by Parliament, in exchange for the surrender of a much 
larger and more valuable amount of patronage. The only limits 
were six offices, and 40,000/. 

What was the present proposition ? To grant one of these for 
life to the son of Mr. Canning, in consideration of those services 
for which his father could, unfortunately, no longer receive re- 
ward in his own person. This entailed no increase upon the 
principal of the fund : it gave one claimant for another ; it substi- 
tuted one life for that which had been withdrawn. And that act, be 
it remembered, was passed in times of infinitely greater pressure 
upon the finances of the country, than could now be said to exist. 
It was passed, likewise, while a committee of finance was sitting, 
and with a careful and deliberate attention to public economy. 



FAMILY OF MR. CANNING. 647 

His honourable friend had said, that Mr. Canning had optionally 
given up the lucrative situation in India, which had been confer- 
red upon him when his Majesty called him to a high and honour- 
able situation in his councils at home, and must therefore have 
considered what he had received, as a full equivalent for that 
which he had surrendered — that, in fact, he had heartily exchang- 
ed the foreign service for the more glorious opening to his ambi- 
tion at home. Now, upon the sense entertained by Mr. Canning 
upon what his honourable friend had been pleased to call his 
choice, he begged to be heard for one moment. He regretted to 
be obliged to make reference, on such an occasion, to information 
derived from the privacy of confidential intercourse. He would 
however state, upon his own personal credit, — he would declare, 
upon his own reputation as a man, in that house, — that whatever 
were the feelings of others, who were justly near and dear to Mr. 
Canning, it had for years been his own warm and anxious wish 
— owing to circumstances that were likely to press upon the acute 
and sensitive mind of such a man — to be placed in some public 
situation, however it might sacrifice or compromise the fair and 
legitimate scope of his ambition, which, while it enabled him to 
perform adequate public services, would enable him also to place 
upon a better footing his wife's private fortune, which he had 
decreased, and the inheritance of his children, which he had im- 
paired. He would not go so far as to say that this was a pros- 
pect fixed upon Mr. Canning's mind, or an object that he was 
bent upon pursuing, for it was difficult to trace the springs of so 
susceptible a temperament; but under the circumstances, it was 
quite natural, considering his means and his family, that while he 
honourably sought a situation to render service to his country, he 
should not be unmindful of the means of repairing the fortune of 
his family, which he had diminished while in the service of that 
country. 

His honourable friend seemed to think, that in these conflicts 
between the acceptance of particular offices, and the performance 
of difterent duties, the decisions were perfectly optional. This 
was an egregious mistake, and a wrong view of the springs of 
human action. It was not the principle which governed public 
men in this country — he hoped and believed not. The principle 
of Mr. Canning was, when His Majesty had formally called upon 
him to forego one situation and fill another, — not to look to the 
right or to the left, — not to consider emolument, but pubhc duty, 
and to obey the commands of his Sovereign, if there was nothing 
in the nature of the proposition submitted to him incompatible 
■with his public principles and personal honour. He had in his 
possession a letter written by Mr. Canning, a very few months 
after the time when he had cheerfully relinquished the golden 



548 PROVISION FOR THE 

prospects of the East, and when, as his honourable friend seemed 
to think, he was indulging the gratification of his splendid ambi- 
tion, in which, speaking of the toils, and anxieties, and pains of 
his official situation, he used these expressive words — "Would to 
God that I were now on board the 'Jupiter!'" — the name of the 
ship destined for his voyage to India. So much, therefore, for 
his lamented friend's gratifying option! So much for the plea- 
sures and profits of office, which he was supposed to have enjoy- 
ed with so much satisfaction ! 

He entirely concurred in the expression of his honourable 
friend's opinion upon the necessity of enforcing a principle of 
economy; but if he was not mistaken, his honourable friend had 
more than once admitted, that the great offices of the state were 
not in this country overpaid. For himself, he had indeed always 
objected to having their salaries or emoluments increased, and 
had always thought it would be a most unwise policy, not with 
regard to economy alone, to raise the stipends of the high officers 
of state. His reason for so thinking had been, because in a coun- 
try like this, possessed of a wealthy aristocracy and of a number 
of commoners of large fortune, talents well suited to the service 
of the state must often be found, to whom the salary of office 
would be no object. Such a feeling ought, on principle, to be 
cultivated; while at the same time, the Crown should not be pre- 
vented from looking elsewhere for aid if necessary, — should not 
be deprived of calling into its service those talents which might 
be found placed in less fortunate circumstances in the community. 
He should be sorry to see the Crown restricted in the privilege 
of benefiting by the talents of any of these classes, whether by 
being excluded from the choice of servants among the less 
wealthy ranks, or — which he would be still more sorry for — by 
being tied down to the aristocracy, to the exclusion of whatever 
abilities might offer themselves in other quarters. His conclusion 
therefore was, that it was a wise principle to keep the salaries of 
high and efficient officers at a comparative low rate; and when- 
ever great services had been received, and want of adequate 
means the result to the individual or his family, to come down to 
Parliament, once, perhaps, in a quarter of a century, to make an 
appeal for the payment of the debts of some minister like Mr. 
Pitt, or some provision for the family of such a man as Mr. 
Canning. This was an infinitely more economical course, than 
any project for raising the salaries of officers of state, which 
would entail a permanent and fixed expense to the nation. In- 
stances would often occur when, as at present in the case of the 
Minister for Foreign Affairs,* or in that of the late Secretary of 
State for the Home Department,! salary would be nothing. 

* The Earl of Dudley. f The Marquis of Lansdowne. 



FAMILY OF MR. CANNING. 549 

These distinguished persons having always large establishments, 
would have to incur, in consequence of otiicial station, little or no 
additional expenditure. Many persons who had filled office re- 
ceived more than their otficial salary as the reward for their 
services. Lord Grenville, for instance, had received other re- 
wards besides the salary attached to the office, which he had 
filled with so much honour to himself, and so much advantage to 
the country. He mentioned this, for the purpose of showing that 
his honourable friend was not borne out in his argument on that 
point, by a reference to facts. The better and more economical 
course would be, not to augment salaries, but to leave the door 
open for any special case like the present, which Parliament 
might think proper to consider. 

Another charge of his honourable friend was, that Mr. Canning 
had expended a large sum of the public money, for fitting up his 
private residence. Now he did not know the amount laid out 
upon the office in Downing-street ; but he knew that, with the 
extension of the business of the Foreign Office, it had become 
necessary to enlarge the building ; and when the expediency and 
value of personal residence were evident, and when it was con- 
sidered that, in that neighbourhood it was not easy to obtain a 
house, with suitable accommodations for maintaining the scale of 
hospitality which the office required, he thought it not too much, 
that some expense should be incurred to secure such a public 
object; but he must repeat, that that expense could not have 
amounted to any thing like the sum mentioned by his honourable 
friend, in the way in which he had put it. 

His honourable friend had said that, instead of the country 
being a debtor to Mr. Canning for his services, she was his cre- 
ditor on account of the expenditure of whi(;h he had been the 
cause, and which had taken place in the foreign department while 
he was in office ; and his honourable friend had told them to look 
to Portugal, to Greece, and to the passage of the Pruth by the 
Russians. Now, every honourable member must see the unfair- 
ness, — for he could not call it by a milder name, — of discussing 
such questions on the present occasion. Standing there as a 
minister of the Crown, and a colleague of the late Mr. Canning, 
willing as he was to encounter all the responsibility of those mea- 
sures upon which his honourable friend opposite had passed such 
a sweeping condemnation, and ready as he was, on the fit occa- 
sion, to enter upon the defence of those measures, he would con- 
fess he felt, and sure he was it was a feeling in which the House 
participated, that it was exceedingly unfair to introduce such a 
subject into this discussion. This much he would say to his 
honourable friend, — that the expedition to Portugal was sent out 
with the concurrence of every Minister who then sat in the Cabi- 



550 PROVISION FOR THE 

net, and that the measure had been approved of in another House, 
by the illustrious Duke who now presided over his Majesty's 
Councils. He would say more, — that the expedition was sent 
out to defend the oldest ally of this country against foreign ma- 
chinations and aggression, — that that was the sole, entire, and 
definite purpose for which it was sent there ; and that it had com- 
pletely accomphshed that purpose. The independence of Portu- 
gal had been preserved. She had been secured against foreign 
invasion, and those dangers had been dissipated, against which 
they had been called upon, by the faith of treaties and by the 
policy of this country, to provide. Nevertheless, his honourable 
friend would render Mr. Canning's memory responsible for the 
expenses of this expedition — he would charge the purse of his 
family, if he could — and he would, if it were in his power, call 
upon them to pay for that expedition with their last shilling. Nay, 
his honourable friend would go still further, and charge upon the 
memory of Mr. Canning that folly and infatuation which evil 
counsels had produced, in the instance of the Prince Regent of 
Portugal. 

But the Russians, forsooth, had passed the Pruth ! and, accord- 
ing to his honourable friend, it was quite just that Mr. Canning 
should be held responsible for that likewise. The present was 
not the time to discuss the questions growing out of the present 
state of things in the east of Europe; but he did not anticipate 
any such direful consequences to this country from them, as his 
honourable friend seemed to apprehend. Nevertheless, let the 
consequences be what they might, he would tell his honourable 
friend, that but for the policy of Mr. Canning, the passage of the 
Pruth would have been effected long since, and under circum- 
stances by no means so favourable to this country, as those under 
which it had now occurred. 

His honourable friend had alluded to the force in the Mediter- 
ranean, and had laid the expenditure and the occurrences there 
at the door of Mr. Canning. Did his honourable friend never hear 
that the Mediterranean had been infested by numerous pirates? — 
that the commerce of all nations, and particularly British com- 
merce, had suffered severe losses in consequence of their depreda- 
tions ? It was to put down that system of piracy that the force 
had been sent out to the Mediterranean ; and no blame could at- 
tach to his lamented friend, or to those who concurred with him 
in the policy of sending out that force, if a shock had afterwards 
taken place, which had never been anticipated, as one of the con- 
sequences of those instructions which Mr. Canning, in the dis- 
charge of his duty to the country and the Crown, had prepared. 

The next point to which his honourable friend had adverted, 
was one upon which it was desirable that no discussion should 



FAMILY OF MR. CANNING. 55 1 

have been provoked. His noble friend, who had addressed the 
House with so much eloquence and feeling, had adverted to the 
delay which had taken place in bringing forward this proposition. 
Now, he could assert, that there did not exist in the late Admi- 
nistration, any indisposition to consider the claims of the family 
of Mr. Canning; and he could positively say, that in the present 
Administration there prevailed one unanitnous concurrence in the 
present proposition, and that the delay which had taken place was 
not to be attributed to any desire on their part to defeat the object 
of the proposition. All personal feelings had been laid aside, when 
this question came to be considered by them. All angi-y passions 
were for the time forgotten, and they approached the considera- 
tion of the question as public men, looking only to the circum- 
stances which had reference to the public services of the man, 
and the loss which his family had sustained by his death. In this 
they imitated the great example of Mr. Fox, who at a period 
w^hen the finances of the country were greatly embarrassed, not- 
withstanding the m.any angry and violent encounters which had 
taken place between them in Parliament, was amongst the fore- 
most to support the bill for the payment of the debts of Mr. Pitt, 
and, with the characteristic virtue of great men, laid aside all 
vetollections of the differences which had prevailed between him 
and his lost rival. 

He felt that he had already trespassed too long on the attention 
of the House. He would, however, say this of Mr. Canning, — 
that, during the course of a long parliamentary life, he had known 
all the great men who, for the last twenty-five years, had served 
their country, and that he never knew one of them who had ex- 
ceeded Mr. Canning in the exclusion of every thing of self, when 
concerned in the discharge of pubhc duties. In his anxiety to 
discharge those duties, he was regardless of all other considera- 
tions. His desire for power arose from his love of fame ; and his 
constant exertions, while in power, were directed to the advance- 
ment of the fame of his country. Animated with these feelings, 
he had lighted up that flame in the Peninsula which has blazed 
throughout Europe, and had at last restored the peace of the con- 
tinent. The same feelings influenced him in the latter part of his 
career — the same desire still animated his breast, to promote the 
good and to advance the greatness of his country. The anxiety 
which he exhibited, and the incessant exertions which he devoted 
to the accomplishment of that great object, destroyed a frame 
which had been otherwise robust, and caused his premature 
decease — too soon, alas ! for his country, though not for his own 
fame. He last saw his lamented friend in the month of July. His 
health was then drooping — his strength was gone, and his frame 
was fast sinking to decay ; but his spirit was still as young as 



552 FAMILY OF MR. CANNING, 

ever, and his enthusiasm in the cause of his country knew no 
bounds. If his lamented friend had errors, they were the errors 
of a great mind. In none of the illustrious men who had yielded 
themselves up to the calls of public duty, had he seen the same 
devotedness of soul to the cause of the country, which had been 
uniformly exhibited by Mr. Canning, with the exception of Nelson, 
and, as "their feelings were similar, so their fate was the same ; 
for both had fallen m the service of their country. If departed 
spirits retained the feelings which animated them in their earthly 
sojourn, sure he was that those kindred spirits were still pervaded 
with the desire for England's fame and England's greatness. 
That was the all-pervading ambition which influenced the public 
conduct of Mr. Canning, and it was on that account that he called 
on the House to adopt the present motion. His honourable friend 
opposite had calculated what he reckoned Mr. Canning to have 
cost the country, and had estimated it at sixty thousand pounds. 
No doubt his honourable friend had discharged what he conceived 
to be a public duty, in opposing this proposal ; but gladly would 
the family of Mr' Canning relinquish more than sixty thousand 
pounds, if they could have restored to them that parent who had 
fallen a sacrifice to his devotion to his country. 

The committee divided : For the motion, 161. Against it, 54. 



( 553 ) 



AMERICAN TARIFFS. 

JULY 18th, 1828. 

Mr. HusKissoN said, that in submitting the motion of which he 
had given notice, he begged to assure his right honourable friends 
on the Treasury bench, that nothing could be farther from his 
intention than to elicit from the Government any premature dis- 
closure of their views and sentiments, in reference to the conduct 
of the United States, as bearing on the commerce and industry 
of this country. Neither was it his intention to state any specific 
opinion of his own on a subject of so much importance, though 
he felt it necessary to take some notice of, he would not say the 
intention, but the tendency of the acts which had lately been 
passed by the legislature of the United States : which he con- 
sidered -jiiainly detrimental to their own interests, and calculated 
to injure and impede the commerce of this country. Seeing the 
many other urgent matters that must have engaged the attention 
of Government, and looking especially to the circumstances at- 
tending the situation of the department to which the considera- 
tion of these subjects peculiarly belonged, it could not be expect- 
ed that they had yet been able to give to the new American 
Tariffs all the consideration which their importance deserved. In 
1815, very soon after the termination of the unfortunate war in 
which we had been engaged with the United States, a convention 
of commerce was entered into between the two countries for 
four years. This convention was renewed in 1818. The prin- 
ciple on which it was framed was very short and simple. It was 
one of those treaties which had been since so much abused, under 
the name of reciprocity treaties, and was the model on which 
other treaties were subsequently constructed. The principle was, 
that all articles of produce, trade, or manufactures, should be re- 
ceived in either country, on the payment of duties as low as were 
paid on the same articles by any other country; and that there 
should be no discriminating duty, with respect to the ships in 
w^hich they were imported. This treaty or convention was con- 
cluded for ten years, and would expire on the 10th of October in 
the present year. 

The policy of the United States was at first sound and wise, 
and they had only laid on articles imported for the consumption 
of their population, such duties as were sufficient to provide for 
47 3U 



554 AMERICAN TARIFFS. 

the exigencies of the state. The duties on the woollens of this 
country were 15 per cent., and those on our hardware and our 
cotton goods were even lower. In 1823, whilst the convention 
was still binding on both countries, they, strange to say, adopted 
a change in their tariff, imposing much higher duties on those 
articles which they considered the great staples of our manufac- 
ture. Hardware was taxed thirty and forty per cent.; cotton 
about the same; and, as if to give a proof of their intention 
deliberately to violate the existing convention, they raised the 
duty on rolled iron one-half higher than that on hammered iron ; 
thus taxing even our improvements in machinery. Upon a re- 
monstrance from this country, the executive government admit- 
ted, much to its credit, that no such increase of duty ought to be 
imposed, nor any duty laid on, in reference to the expedition with 
which it was forged. 

Subsequently, an attempt was made to induce us again to enter 
into a commercial convention for another term of ten years. He 
had been the individual charged with arranging the renewal of 
the convention ; and in the course of the discussions, he had 
taken two objections to such renewal. The first, that as the Con- 
gress had taken this course with the iron, there was nothing to 
prevent it from doing the same with the other articles of our ex- 
ports to the United States ; for instance, cotton goods ; — that, in 
fact, if at all admitted, the principle would go to deprive us — a 
great manufacturing country — of all the benefit of our improve- 
ments in machinery. The second objection was, that the scale 
of duties on other articles had been attempted to be increased in 
1824, 1825, and 1826, and was only rejected by the casting-vote 
of the President. He therefore proposed, that the parties should 
not be bound to a term of ten years, but should conclude a new 
convention determinable at any period, provided twelve months 
notice were given by either party. This convention, leaving the 
two countries comparatively unfettered, was concluded last 
August. Whilst iron, cotton, and hardware, were rendered liable 
to duties which almost amounted to a prohibition, being the staples 
of this country, the productions of other countries were, in the 
same proportion, lowered ; evidently showing an intention to in- 
jure, if not altogether to ruin, the extensive trade carrying on by 
this country in articles of its own manufacture. The fatal vote 
of this year was carried by as small a majority as it was lost by 
in the preceding year; and the best-informed Americans candidly 
confessed, that they felt this conduct to be extremely unwise and 
impolitic. Be that as it might, each country had a right to do in 
this respect as it liked, and we had no right to complain. He for 
one made no remonstrance as to the principle ; but we had the 
remedy within ourselves. He was, however, not disposed to 



AMERICAN TARIFFS. 555 

enter on a war of restrictions or prohibitions in commerce. He 
deeply regretted what had been done in this respect ; yet a man 
must be bhnd to the interests of tliis country, wiio should consent 
to deprive Government of the means of promptly meeting the 
effect of such restrictive measures by corresponding regulations 
here. If we were not in a condition to vindicate ourselves, there 
was at once an end of all equality; nor could we account satis- 
factorily to other countries, with whom we were still allowed to 
trade on fair terms of reciprocity, for this tame endurance in in- 
jury. Neither was it consistent with the dignity of a great com- 
mercial nation like this, to sit in apathy and aflect not to feel the 
impediments thrown in the way of its commerce. If we were 
to take raw materials for our manufactures from the United 
States, we certainly should ensure for our articles, when manu- 
factured from those materials, an equally favourable reception in 
the market as they experienced in other countries, not deriving 
in turn such considerable intercommercial advantages. Whilst 
we were dependent on that country for the raw material, were 
they to be encouraged and aided in their determination to be 
henceforth independent of our manufactured goods, of which 
they had till now required so large a supply 1 It was a more 
manly course, in order both to assert the character and protect 
the commerce of this country, to protest against a system framed 
for the unjust exclusion of our articles of manufacture. That 
system of commercial hostility he deeply regretted. There were 
two descriptions of articles imported into this country. Of the 
first class, such as tobacco, rice, and turpentine, he should speak 
as of articles which were not essential to our commerce or manu- 
factures, and were mere articles of consumption. We could, he 
was satisfied, soon be abundantly supplied with tobacco from the 
East-Indies, by wise and prudent inducements held out to induce 
its improved cultivation. The rice of India would soon (indeed 
it was already doing so) usurp the place, in our list of imports, 
which that of Carolina had held. In other articles, the same 
change would soon be observed. With reference to cotton, that 
raw article so essential in our great staple trade, it was only 
necessary to give its culture in India the same encouragement 
and protection which the indigo trade had obtained, to ensure its 
cultivation with equal success, and the growth of as good, as 
durable, and as fine an article. The result would soon be, that 
the cotton of India would rival and supplant the cotton of the 
western world, as the indigo of India already excelled that of 
Guatemala, to which it was formerly so much inferior, and would 
still have continued so, but for the judicious encouragement 
afforded to it. 

Unless we asserted our dignity and protected our interests, 



556 AMERICAN TARIFFS. 

what would be thought of us by the people of Brazil, who ad- 
mitted all our articles of manufacture upon a payment of only 
fifteen per cent. 'I What could we with consistency say to India, 
which was compelled to receive all our exports at a duty of 2^ 
per cent, on being landed in the ports of India, and had scarcely 
any staple wherewith to repay itself in the way of commerce 
with us ? What, in fact, could be our answer to the new states 
of South America? This was an important consideration. But 
there was another ; which was, that if the United States pursued 
this course, and drove us to other countries for a supply now almost 
all their own, we should see that supply brought to this country in 
English bottoms and thus employing English industry, instead of, 
as it was now, employing American ships and seamen, and under 
the American flag. It was become a question of too great im- 
portance, any longer to be overlooked by any Government anxi- 
ous to protect its commerce from the too palpable attempt to ex- 
clude the produce of English industry from the market of the 
United States. But was it to be supposed that the effort could be 
crowned with success ; or was it not right to infer, that if, cir- 
cumstanced as our provinces in Canada were, — so large a coun- 
try as the United States were prohibited from obtaining a legiti- 
mate supply, human industry and ingenuity would devise means 
of obtaining at a cheap rate, and without duty at all, that which 
was so superior in manufacture to any other they could obtain? 
He should deeply regret if things turned into such an illicit chan- 
nel, as it could hardly fail to increase the rivalry between the 
states bordering on the line of demarcation in North America, 
and possibly be productive of hostile feeling, and frequent per- 
sonal rencontres. Strengthened as Government had felt itself by 
all these concurrent encouragements, it would not have become 
it to have acted otherwise than it did, with respect to the com- 
mercial convention last concluded. It appeared to him that the 
people of the United States had been led into an error, and in- 
duced to believe that we should have regarded all this with com- 
parative apathy, as coming from themselves ; because this coun- 
try had been so uniformly moderate and forbearing with an 
infant and rising state, connected with us so intimately by com- 
munity of language and a common origin. 

He thought that the present extent of our trade with America 
did honour to the spirit of enterprise in both countries ; but if 
America should persevere in the system disclosed in the tariff of 
this year, the day might arrive when the commerce between her 
and this country might become as restricted, and as insignificant, 
as that between us and France. The commerce of America 
with this country amounted to more than one half of the whole 
of her commercial transactions with the rest of the world ; but 



AMERICAN TARIFFS. 557 

our dealings with America, though conducted on such an exten- 
sive scale, did not amount to one-sixtii of our general commerce. 
He would leave it to those who had an interest in the prosperity 
of that country, to say, whether they would risk the loss of more 
than half her trade in the vain endeav^our to impede us in one- 
sixth of ours. The rapid increase of the cotton trade between 
America and this country was a proof, not only of the general 
prosperity of both, but of the increased comforts which were 
possessed by every class of our population. In the years 1817 
and 1818, one half of the cotton manufactured in this country 
was consumed at home. As the quantity of the raw material 
had doubled in the course of ten years, the inference was obvi- 
ous, that the quantity of manufactured cotton had more than 
doubled. That was a great improvement in so short a period ; 
and it was the more important, as it indicated a corresponding 
increase in the comforts, and he might say the luxuries, of the 
people. He hailed it as an evidence of the advantages which a 
long peace w^as calculated to diffuse over the face of the earth, 
that in the whole of the civilized world, the comforts and advan- 
tages of society were rapidly increasing. He rejoiced to think 
that they were increasing in other countries as well as our own; 
for, as they increased, the wants of those countries would in- 
crease, with their wants commerce, and with commerce that 
beneficial intercourse which it must be the w'ish of every man to 
cultivate and encourage. 

If the United States of America, by a fatal policy, should per- 
severe in shutting out our commerce from her ports, it was 
absurd to suppose that she could annihilate that portion of our 
commerce. All she could do was to alter its course, — to send 
us into other ports of the same continent, to send us into Asia, 
and into the vast islands which covered the Asiatic seas. 

To follow up the subject still further. He would say, that 
those gentlemen who, in another place, laboured with so much 
useless industry in the inquiry concerning the low price of En- 
glish wool, were mistaken if they supposed that it was any proof 
of declining prosperity. The wool trade had decreased, because 
the cotton trade had increased. They were articles in competi- 
tion with each other, and nothing could tend so much to raise 
the price of wool, as raising the price of American cotton. It 
was a satisfaction to know that the trade in foreign wool had 
increased. That was a fact which no man could deny, and as 
it was not accompanied with a corresponding increase in the ex- 
port, it was decisive of an increase in the comforts of the people. 
The idea of laying an additional tax on foreign wool would be 
a species of madness, only equal to that which America would 
exhibit, by persevering in the system disclosed in the late tariff. 
47* 



558 AMERICAN TARIFFS. 

On looking at the fourth report of the Finance Committee, they 
would find that a great increase had taken place in the comforts, 
as well as in the productive powers of the industrious classes. 

It was with regret that he should make any allusion to the 
differences between this country and America, in the year 1825. 
But, what had occurred at that period between the United States 
and the British colonies in the West-Indies? He had then 
proposed an act, throwing open the trade of those colonies, upon 
certain conditions, to other nations. The United States, how- 
ever, so far from acting upon a principle of reciprocity, had im- 
posed restrictions upon British shipping entering their ports, 
which amounted to complete exclusion. For one long year this 
country had patiently — he had almost said too patiently — sub- 
mitted to the regulation, without adopting any retaliatory mea- 
sure. At the end of that period, his Majesty was advised to 
issue an order in council prohibiting the intercourse between 
America and our West-India possessions. The intercourse was 
interdicted ; and then came America, with a tardy proposal, 
accepting the terms which, up to the moment of the prohibition, 
this country had offered to her in vain. The advice for the 
issuing of that order in council was given with reluctance ; but 
if they must again be driven to measures unfriendly to commer- 
cial intercourse, it became them to persist in it with firmness. 

With respect to the present tariff, he would say to ministers, — 
" Do not be hasty to determine : look at the various bearings of 
the question, with a view to your interests, your character, and 
your trade." But if, after such deliberation, they were forced to 
adopt a course of retaliation, all he would enjoin them was, that 
when once they had adopted the course, they should adhere to it 
with firmness. He would now move, " That there be laid before 
the House, a copy of the Tariff established in the United States 
of America, in the present year ; together with a copy of their 
Tariff of the year 1824." 

The motion was agreed to. 



( 559 ) 

EAST RETFORD DISFRANCHISEMENT BILL. 

MAY 5th, 1829. 

Mr. Tennyson moved for leave to bring in a Bill, " to exclude the Borough 
of East Retford from electing Burgesses to serve in Parliament, and to enable 
the town of Birmingham to return two representatives in lieu thereof." Mr. 
Nicholson Calvert expressed his anxiety, that the franchise should be trans- 
ferred to the hundred of Bassetlaw, and Mr. Secretary Peel stated, that if the 
honourable member should move an amendment to that effect, it should have 
his support. 

Mr. HusKissoN rose and said* : — 

From the settled aversion which I feel to every system of 
what is called parliamentary reform, I cannot say that I hail 
with much satisfaction any question which brings, even indirectly, 
that subject more or less under the review and discussion of this 
House. I am as far as any man from courting any thing which 
looks like a general revision of the Constitutional body : but when 
the existence of such abuses and general corruption as have been 
proved long and habitually to exist in the borough of East Ret- 
ford are brought to light and exhibited in proof before us, we 
have no alternative but to apply some remedy to the specific evil. 
Further than this I shall never be prepared to go. I take my stand 
upon the aggregate excellence of our representative system, and 
I leave to others to take what delight they may in hunting out the 
anomalies of its detail, having no desire myself to join in that 
critical examination. 

Without intending the slightest disrespect to the honourable 
members who have preceded me, I must say it does appear to 
me, that a great part of the debate of this evening would have 
been better applied to a stage of this measure which I understand 
to be now gone by. The honourable member for Corfe-Castlef 
has addressed his arguments to the House, as if it were now con- 
sidering the effect of the evidence which was formerly taken, and 
not as if it were considering what the consequences are which 
ought to follow upon that evidence. The honourable gentleman 
says, that in the courts 6f law you cannot institute any proceed- 

* From Mr. Huskisson's MS. Notes. f Mr. George Bankes. 



560 EAST RETFORD DISFRANCHISEMENT BILL. 

ings to punish bribery and corruption, unless you do so within 
two years of the period when the parties were guilty of that 
bribery and corruption. This House, however, is not placed in 
that situation. It is not so restricted in its jurisdiction. It has, 
moreover, decided on a former occasion, that in the borough of 
East Retford there had been a gross, habitual, and long-con- 
tinued state of corruption and bribery. The only question, there- 
fore, which we have to discuss is, in what mode we shall deal 
with its forfeited franchise — whether we shall transfer it to some 
great commercial and manufacturing town, like Birmingham — 
whether we shall pursue the course which we pursued in the case 
of Grampound, when we transferred it to a county — or whether 
we shall retain this universally corrupt borough, and only en- 
deavour to correct or countervail its corruption, by giving a con- 
current right of voting to the freeholders of the adjacent hundred 
of Bassetlaw. 

I have heard. Sir, with regret, and I must add with no small 
degree of surprise, the declaration made this evening by my right 
honourable friend, the Secretary of State for the Home Depart- 
ment, that the whole weight and authority of Government is to 
be put forth in support of the amendment of the honourable mem- 
ber for the county of Hertford. That, under such auspices, and 
backed by such power, it will be successful, I cannot doubt. I 
shall regret this success, because I cannot help thinking, that it 
will be at variance with the sentiments generally entertained by 
the sound and intelligent part of the community ; I shall regret 
this success, because I am convinced, that it will increase, in the 
public mind, the feeling which already exists in favour of parlia- 
mentary reform ; I shall regret this success, because I feel that 
it will ensure the adoption of a course, which must pave the way 
for a general parliamentary reform. When I say that I feel sur- 
prise, as well as regret at the course which they have adopted, I 
will tell his Majesty's ministers what is the ground of that sur- 
prise. I had persuaded myself, from the conduct which they 
have hitherto pursued during this session, and above all from 
the arguments by which they have vindicated that conduct, that 
they were not insensible to the march of events, and to the state 
and progress of public opinion in this country. 

See, Sir, what that march and that progress have been ! Two 
short years only have elapsed since the honourable and learned 
member for Winchelsea,* to the great surprise of the country, 
thought proper one day to quit the seat which he now occupies, 
and, crossing the floor of the House, to take another upon one of 
the upper benches behind the Treasury-bench. No sooner had 

* Mr. Brougham. 



EAST RETFORD DISFRANCHISEMENT BILL. 661 

this leader of a party in this House — for upon this occasion, he 
was followed by many others — effected this lodgment in an out- 
work, which had long been occupied and guarded by the stead- 
iest and most tried of the troops of his opponents, than these 
veterans, one and all, were seized with a sudden panic — they fled 
and dispersed themselves in every direction, and in every part of 
the House. As soon as they had a little recovered from this 
state of breathless alarm, and had been able to talk it over 
amon^ themselves, it was announced, that the foundation of all 
their fears was this — that the position taken by the honourable 
and learned gentleman implied a great change in the warfare of 
politics — that they inferred from the support which he was 
about to give to the other leader on this side of the House, that 
three most alarming consequences were to be expected — first, 
they saw in it the repeal of the Test and Corporation Acts — 
secondly, they saw in it the settlement of the Roman Catholic 
question, and thirdly, they saw in it nothing less than parliament- 
ary reform. 

Well, Sir, to their great surprise, the campaign of 1827 closed 
without any of those positions being either assailed or carried. 
At the opening of the campaign of 1828, the honourable and 
learned leader had evacuated his post on this side of the House, 
and had returned to his former position. New leaders were 
appointed on this side — leaders of whom it might then be said, 
that had those situations been elective by those who had been 
thrown into such dismay last year, they M'ould have been the 
objects of their unanimous choice, as the most approved cham- 
pions to whom could be committed the defence of those two great 
bulwarks of the constitution, the Test Act and the Catholic 
code. In consequence, those tried and veteran troops resumed 
their former positions in the most entire — but, such is the uncer- 
tainty of all sublunary blessings, in a false and delusive — security. 
Whether the learned Leader, in crossing back to his former 
position, had left behind him the indefatigable chief of his staflT, 
the famous " Schoolmaster,^^ of whom he had often sounded the 
praise — by what arts he succeeded in winning over the chiefs and 
a great part of the garrisons — it will be the task of history to 
explore. The simple facts are, that one of those bulwarks was 
surrendered early in 1828, upon the first summons, and after a 
very feeble resistance ; and that the second and more important 
fortress was surrendered at the opening of the present campaign, 
without even a summons, and upon conditions more favourable 
than any that had been offered, and offered in vain, by the suc- 
cession of great commanders who had assailed it for the last five 
and twenty years. 

I rejoice, Sir, at these surrenders ; but Parliamentary Refornn, 
3V 



562 EAST RETFORD DISFRANCHISEMENT BILL. 

thank God, still remains to be resisted. There, I trust, the resist- 
ance will ever be firm — will ever be successful. But sure I am, 
that the means of successful resistance will be greatly strengthen- 
ed by our adopting the advice of the honourable member for 
Blechingly* — that it will be greatly impaired by our acting upon 
the plan of the honourable member for the county of Hertford. 
Should the latter proposition be adopted, we shall see parliament- 
ary refornnr, backed by a powerful auxiliary out of this House — 
I mean public opinion, and the power of the press — made an 
annual question of discussion. 

It is, Sir, on grounds like these, that I am anxious to give my 
support to my honourable friend the member for Blechingly. I will 
not condescend to argue the question as one between the landed 
and the commercial interests of the country. It is to me matter 
of wonder, that any man should even suppose that the character 
of the House will be changed, by giving this franchise either to 
the hundred of Bassetlaw or to the town of Birmingham. I object 
to the distinction which some honourable members are drawing 
between the landed and the commercial interests. I contend, that 
the history of this country, and still more emphatically the history 
of Ireland, proves that it is on the co-operating industry and suc- 
cess of the commercial industry, that the prosperity of the landed 
interest mainly rests. Destroy the energies of commerce, and 
your land will soon fall into that unproductive state, in which it 
was before those great stimuli to improvement were created. 

It has been stated, as a justification of the course which his 
Majesty's Government have determined to follow upon the sub- 
ject of this bill, that the two Houses of Parliament are divided in 
opinion, as to the best mode of dealing with forfeited franchises, 
and that the present has been adopted, as forming a middle 
course, on which both can agree. I admit it to be true, that on 
the present question, the two Houses are divided in opinion. The 
House of Commons has shown by its votes on more than one 
occasion, that it is of opinion that the great manufacturing towns 
which are unrepresented, ought to send representatives to Parlia- 
ment. It has sent up bills in which that opinion has been for- 
mally avowed. The other House has rejected them ; and, up to 
this hour, both Houses seem firmly attached to their respective 
opinions. Indeed, I understand my right honourable friend the 
Home Secretary not to be unfriendly to the principle which I am 
supporting; and therefore I am the more surprised to find him 
supporting the amendment of the honourable member for Hert- 
fordshire. 

Sir, many of the reasons which prevailed with those who had 

*Mr. Tennyson. 



EAST RETFORD DISFRANCHISEMENT BILL. 563 

hitherto opposed Catholic concession, to give their support to it 
this year, would apply in the present caSe — here is the same divi- 
sion of opinion between the two Houses; here, too, the young 
are with us, and the parties who, upon principle, oppose all trans- 
fer to great towns are the same, of whom it was said in another 
place, by a right reverend prelate,* they must soon go to their 
account elsewhere — and here again, the public feeling out of 
doors is strong in favour of giving representatives to these great 
towns, and strongly against giving it to the particular hundred to 
which this borough is to be annexed. We were also told, during 
the late discussion on the Catholic claims, now so happily adjust- 
ed, that it was important to win all Protestants to our side, in 
order that we might, with greater effect, oppose any dangerous 
pretensions, if any such there should be, of the Roman Catholics. 
And is it nothing, I would ask, of importance, in the course of the 
various domestic questions which may hereafter arise on the sub- 
ject of parliamentary refonn, to win over to our side, Sir, not 
only public opinion, over which the press now exercises such 
powerful influence, but also those congregated masses of intellect 
and of wealth, which always exist in large commercial towns ? 
Will it be nothing of importance, I would ask, that the population 
of Birmingham shall have been made content, by being gifted 
with the power to return members to represent them in Parlia- 
ment? 

I should have thought, Sir, and more especially after recent 
events and recent avowals, that this was an occasion to recollect 
those words of forecast and wisdom, which are somewhere to be 
found in the writings of Mr. Burke — " Early reforms are amica- 
ble arrangements with a friendly power; late reforms, capitula- 
tions with a conquering enemy." Is there no risk. Sir, that the 
measure which immortalizes the present session should appear 
hereafter an exemplification of this remark? Is it no drawback 
to an act of justice and grace, to have it exhibited as yielded to 
necessity, and as only a lesser evil than civil war? and if such a 
view of what we have done subtracts, on the one hand, from the 
value of the boon, does it add nothing, on the other hand, to the 
danger of the example ? When the excitation of the late discus- 
sion shall have gone by — when the swell and rolling of the 
waters, after their late violent agitation, shall have subsided — that 
man must be little read in the history of human passions, or in the 
political history of free states, who can imagine that the people 
of this country, a sober, calculating, and observing people, or the 
people of Ireland, certainly quite as shrewd, though perhaps a 
little more mercurial in their character, will look at nothing but 

*TheBisbop of Oxford. 



564 EAST RETFORD DISFRANCHISEMENT BILL, 

the mere change in the law, effected by what is called Catholic 
Emancipation, quite absd'actedly from any recollection of the 
battles by which it has been won, of the mode and circumstances 
in which it was opposed for twenty-five years, and of the mode 
and circumstances and accompanying declarations, by which it 
was finally conceded ; that they will look at the history of this 
question abstractedly of the influence which it has had upon party, 
upon the formation of and breaking up of administrations, and 
upon all the great events which have agitated the public mind in 
our time- 
Sir, I say again — that man must be little read in human pas- 
sions or poUtical history, who supposes that some other leading 
question embodying the means of excitation, will not ere long 
take the place of the Catholic question ; that new aspirations of 
ambition and distinction, will not arise ; that feelings hitherto dor- 
mant will not be called into action ; and that we shall not ere 
long be sensible of the vibration of strings which have hitherto 
remained untouched. Every thing connected with this question 
is hurrying us forward to good or evil, according to the direction 
■which may be given to the stream. The present session, in fact, 
will become a new era in the history of the public power of this 
country. In this state of things, divisions between the House 
■which represents the people and the Upper House ought to be 
carefully avoided as much as possible. Because you have most 
■wnscly and most fortunately stopped the principal crater of that 
immense volcano, which threatened Ireland with wide-spreading 
conflagration, are you to neglect to look into the recesses of those 
subterraneous caverns where the elements of fire must still be 
enkindling, and the latent springs of danger preserved with all 
their elastic force 1 You have stopped the great evil — you have 
laid the foundation of much good. But it is rather the prelimi- 
nary than the actual completion of a work — rather the qualifying 
to enable us to begin, than the end and close of our labours. In 
the present state of society in Ireland — in the absence of poor 
laws for that country — (upon the policy or applicability of which 
I now pronounce no opinion) — in the want of adequate capital to 
afford employment to an impoverished race — in the comparative 
relation of landlord and tenant — in all the various ramifications 
arising out of such a disorganized state of things, much remains 
unsettled. There is much, very much to be done by the Parlia- 
ment and the Government, and many duties to be performed, in 
the reconciliation of supposed adverse interests. 

Now, Sir, is it possible to glance at the proximity of these diffi- 
cult questions, without seeing how much they must be aggravated 
by the disfranchising of this borough of East Retford, for the mere 
purpose of transferring the franchise to the adjoining hundred of 



EAST RETFORD DISFRANCHISEMENT DILL. 565 

Bassetlaw 1 My honourable friend, the member for Hertfordshire, 
was indeed so well convinced of this himself, and so entirely per- 
suaded of the universal corruption which reigned throughout the 
borough, that, in his first bill, he proposed to disfranchise the 
whole of these corrupt voters eti masse, and throw open the fran- 
chise to the county. He has since, howev^er, forgetful of his first 
and juster intention, merely changed the form of election in the 
borough, and extended it to the hundred of Bassetlaw. [Mr. N. 
Calvert. — " You mistake. I did not bring in a bill of that specific 
description. I brought in two bills; one for the disfranchisement 
of those who were guilty of gross bribery and corruption ; the 
other for transferring the franchise."] Then, the tenderness dis- 
played in the alteration is not justice, in the general principle 
which ought to govern such a case. It is creating, or rather 
superinducing, embarrassment where none previously existed ; for 
the case originally, and indeed at present, is simply this: — we 
were, as the committee had left the subject upon the facts, at 
perfect liberty, niore than parliament had been on any previous 
occasion, to disfranchise East Retford, and to carry the franchise 
so forfeited to any part of the country we thought proper. The 
moment that, upon just grounds, such a decision was come to, I 
know nothing in the history of the constitution, in the precedents 
of our former proceedings upon the like grounds, in the analogy 
of the decisions upon any cases appertaining to such principles, 
which attaches a preference in the transference to mere vicinity 
or proximity, rather than to any other part of the kingdom. This 
being the fact, whence, vSir, the policy of overlooking the claims 
of such a town as Birmingham, with a population of one hundred 
and forty thousand souls, to bring in some local hundred — with 
the palpable knowledge of Birmingham, the great quarter of a 
staple of the country — iron — being unrepresented in Parliament; 
at the same time knowing, likewise, Leeds, the great mart of the 
woollen trade, to be in the same state, and likewise Sheffield, the 
depository of the hardware trade 1 Is this a time, when such a 
question is raised, to decide, that Birmingham shall not be repre- 
sented at all, and that a forfeited franchise shall be assigned to 
one of the hundreds which was represented directly by the county 
members, as well as indirectly by the borough members. So 
that in the hundred the electors are to have the exercise of the 
representative functions twice, and to have a two-fold capacity 
of returning members, while the large towns, with the great inter- 
ests which I have named, are to be deprived of the chance of a 
single nomination. Ought any man in his right senses to hesitate 
as to the course which it is proper to adopt under such circum- 
stances ? If Birmingham ought to be represented at all, ought a 
question to be raised upon the alternative, whether such shall be 
48 



566 EAST RETFORD DISFRANCHISEMENT BILL. 

the case, or whether a hundred in the county, like Bassetlaw — 
one emphatically named in the local topography as " The 
Dukery,'* shall have the chance of being directly represented ? It 
is a matter of indifference to me in whom the nomination shall lie, 
in such a case ; it is enough for me, upon the general principle, to 
know, that the county of Nottingham has now eight representa- 
tives, and that Warwickshire, the depository" of great trading in- 
terests, has only six, with a population so much denser and more 
conflicting, and, under every circumstance, so very differently con- 
stituted. 

Why, Sir, there has not been for a century so good an oppor- 
tunity of remedying a state of things, arising out of the altered 
condition of society. It is unnecessary to go into the condition of 
these boroughs in Nottinghamshire, and the interests involved in 
them ; nor do I mean to trench upon the principle of virtual re- 
presentation. I am not arguing against that principle, when I 
seek for the settlement of the present question. But I contend, 
that if great and influential interests have silently grown up in the 
country, mixing private speculations with large public results, the 
principle of virtual representation becomes inapplicable to their 
immediate condition ; and that, when a safe opportunity arises, 
their direct claims ought to be attended to. When the power of 
selection is pressed upon Parliament by any particular occur- 
rence, what answer can be given to the claims of such a town as 
Birmingham, with trading interests largely mixed up in the gene- 
ral commercial bearings of the manufactures of the country? 
When such measures as the renewal of the Charter of the East- 
India Company, and that of the Bank of England, are in pro- 
gress, is it to be said, that the people of a town like Birmingham 
have no greater interest in the result than those who reside in 
the hundred of Bassetlaw? Are they, at a time of such general 
and momentous considerations, to be consigned to a mere virtual 
representation, and refused the benefit of a just and seasonable 
opportunity of having a direct presence in the legislature? No 
class, in fact, more directly requires this aid than the people of 
Birmingham ; who are now to be refused it, notwithstanding the 
eminent advantages which the country could not fail to derive 
from the pursuit of a different course. Indeed, when I survey 
those weighty interests, and the incalculable benefits that would 
result from the concession now called for, I cannot help appeal- 
ing to my right honourable friends on the Treasury Bench, and 
recalling to them the apposite and beautiful quotation lately made 
by a noble friend in the other House,* at the head of the law, who 
repeated it as it was used by a great luminary of this House — 

* Lord Lyndhurst. 



EAST RETFORD DISFRANCHISEMENT BILL. 567 

Mr. Burke — when describing the benign effects which had re- 
sulted from the adjustment of the ill-proportioned representation 
of Wales, — "From that moment, as by a charm, the tumults 
subsided — obedience was restored ; peace, order, and civilization 
followed in the train of liberty — when the day-star of the English 
Constitution had arisen in their hearts, all was harmony within 
and without." By pursuing the policy of the act of Henry VIII. 
in the present case, the same happy consequences would follow — 
the same guarantee would be obtained for the loyalty of a patient 
and enduring people, These great advantages are now within 
your reach. Never before have you had an equal opportunity 
of effecting so desirable an object, so readily, and so quietly. 

My honourable friend, the member for Hertfordshire, alluded 
to the boroughs in the west of England, and remarked how well 
they worked. Upon this point, I will offer nothing more than 
that I know enough of these matters to wish to avoid discussing 
them in detail. After all, Sir, the question is — has, in the particu- 
lar instance before us, that degree of forfeiture been incurred 
by bribery which justifies the total disfranchisement of the bo- 
rough ? It is not necessary in the fulfilment of the principle which 
governs these transactions, that each individual shall, in the pur- 
suit of what he conceived to be his private interest, have violated 
his public trust; it is enough to show, that the general corruption 
is so notorious in the body exercising the franchise, that they do 
not deserve to be invested with public rights. Their franchise 
becomes, in such a case, vitiated. In fact, there is no other way 
of dealing with the principle. We must act upon the general 
condition of the place. 

I know, Sir, that in enforcing these opinions I am exposing 
myself to the repetition of the imputation of having been of late 
governed very much by revolutionary theories. I have been 
charged by some, whose esteem and good-will I greatly value, 
as having, in matters of commerce, as well as in those of the 
general policy of the country, been too prone to alterations, and 
as being the author in some instances, and the promoter in others, 
of innovations of a rash and dangerous nature. I deny the 
charge. I dare the authors of it to the proof. I am ready to 
join issue with them, whenever it is brought forward in a sub- 
stantive, tangible, and intelligible shape. For the present, I will 
content myself with reminding those gentlemen, when they talk 
of the dangers of innovation, that they ought to remember, with 
Lord Bacon, " that Time has been and is the great Innovator." 
Upon that Innovator, I have felt it my duty cautiously to wait, at 
a becoming distance, and with proper circumspection ; but not 
arrogantly and presumptuously to go before him, and endeavour 
to outstrip his course. Time has raised these great interests ; and 



568 EAST RETFORD DISFRANCHISEMENT BILL. 

it is the business of a statesman to move onwards with the new 
combinations which have grown around him. 

This, Sir, is the principle by which my feeHngs have been con- 
stantly regulated during a long public life, and by which I shall 
continue to be governed, so long as I take any part in the public 
affiiirs of this country. It is well said, by the most poetical genius, 
perhaps, of our own times — 

"A thousand years scarce serve to form a state, 
An hour may lay it in the dust" — 

This is the feeling which has regulated — which will continue to 
regulate — my conduct. It was by a reference to it, that I governed 
myself in the great measure which has recently occupied the at- 
tention of Parliament; verily believing that if, in an evil hour, 
the Government had ]'esolved upon a permanent, uncompromising 
system of resistance to the Catholic claims, they would have gone 
far to illustrate in this country the last words of the quotation — 
" An hour may lay it in the dust." 

I claim, therefore, for myself, that I have never been one of 
those who think that, in order to warrant any change in the es- 
tablished policy of the state, it is sufficient to show that the 
change is in accordance with natural rights, or founded upon 
some general principle, the abstract truth of which cannot be 
denied. At the same time, I do not mean to deny, that when we 
come to that which is the practical duty of statesmen, — to weigh 
the advantages and disadvantages of one course of proceeding 
against another, and to make our choice between them, — it will 
generally be found that the balance will incline on the side of 
justice and of sound principle. But I go no further. I am no 
advocate for changes upon mere abstract theory. I know not, 
indeed, which is the greatest folly — that of resisting all improve- 
ment, because improvement implies innovation — or that of re- 
ferring every thing to first principles, and to abstract doctrines 
The business of the practical man is to make himself acquainted 
with facts — to watch events — to understand the actual situation 
of affairs, and the course of time and circumstances, as bearing 
upon the present state of his own country and the world. 

These are the grounds by a reference to which his reason and 
judgment must be formed — according to which, without losing 
sight of first principles, he must know how to apply them, and to 
temper their inflexibility. This is the task of practical legislation. 
We cannot frame new laws, or change those under which we 
have hitherto lived, without a reference to the situation of the 
country, and to all the circumstances in which we are placed. 
But neither, as some appear to imagine, can we stand still, whilst 



KAsr inrn'oKi) disikanciiisiimkni" iiii,i,. r»(;i» 

llioHO circniiislMiiccs anj cliiinj^in;^, and rvrrv thin;.; iihiiiikI us is 
iti triotioii. 

Now, Sir, llu) Hurosf, way lo |iif;v(;iil rash and dan^rroiis iiino- 
vafioii is to H\o\) thai. ccairHC »»l' vacillalidii, vvliicli l(!iii|)orisiiig 
and iii(;<)rn|)l(il<: moasurcs aio nuit I<» < iralr. In t.-vciy thing which 
I havo said, I hog ihi; House lo hear in muid, that I ant not 
pressing for the adojilion ol' any th(!ory, luilinnwn lu ihr- consli- 
tnlion; hut, on ihc contrary, (inlorc.ing the maciicil .ipphcation 
i)\' a very (»ld |irini'i|i|c, and endeavouring to slmw how C(Mn|ilclt!|y 
it in in nnison with it, (hat means should h(; taken, salely and 
williont forcing the occasion, to provide for the wants of th<tse 
gntat towns, which have grown up under peciihar circ.mnslanciJs, 
and whic.h call for a course of trealnirail, more c<»nsistenl with 
Ihoir exigencies than iIk; one now provided \\,\- them. 

'riu< lldiiMn (lividod. l''or till! iiHilHiii, III; fi(^iiinnl, it, 1117. Miijoril.y n|{o.inMt 
l)riii;,Miif^^ III tin; l)ill, H(J. Mr. iliiHJoHHoii voted willi llio iiiiiKinly. 
1N» MW 



( 570 ) 



MR. HUSKISSON'S EXPOSITION OF THE STATE OF 
BRITISH POLITICAL AND COMMERCIAL RELA- 
TIONS WITH MEXICO. 

MAY 20th, 1830. 

In pursuance of his notice, that he would this day present a petition from 
Liverpool, respecting the present state of our political and commercial rela- 
tions with Mexico, 

Mr. HusKissoN rose and said ; — 

The petition, Sir, which I now rise to present, is one which, 
in my judgment, connects itself with interests and considerations 
of the highest importance to this country. I trust that this will 
afford some apology for me, if I venture upon this occasion to 
detain the House longer than is usual, or, generally speaking, 
acceptable, upon the presentation of petitions. The petitioners 
are that portion of the merchants of Liverpool, who are engaged 
in dealings and commercial intercourse with the State of Mexico. 
In substance, their petition is entirely in accordance with the 
representations which have been made to this House by other 
great trading and manufacturing communities — Glasgow, Man- 
chester, London, and other places, whose pursuits give them an 
equal interest in the condition of the New States of America. 
The petition states that, since Mexico became independent, its 
trade with this country has increased ; that it now forms a very 
important item of our foreign commerce, and that it is suscepti- 
ble, under favourable circumstances, of a still greater increase; 
that it has, however, unfortunately been exposed to various inter- 
ruptions, losses, and uncertainties, in consequence of occasional 
enterprises undertaken against Mexico from Cuba, and that these 
enterprises have been the cause of considerable disorders in 
Mexico, and of expense and losses, which fall mainly upon neu- 
tral commerce. The petitioners further state that, last summer, 
an expedition was despatched from Cuba, which entailed great 
losses upon British subjects, and they add, that they have reason 
to believe that otlier expeditions of a similar nature are fitting out. 
Such are some of the statements contained in the petition. 

Of the magnitude and importance of the objects at stake there 
cannot be two opinions. When we look at the extent and pecu- 



COMMERCIAL RELATIONS WITH MEXICO. 671 

liar productions of the Mexican territory — at its actual population 
— a {)opulation now amounting to nearly seven millions, and 
capable of being greatly increased — a population not our rivals 
in shipping or manufactures, but able and willing to afford us the 
mineral productions of their country, in return for our goods, to 
the great encouragement of our trading and shipping interests — • 
it will appear to all that we are deeply interested in the tranquil- 
lity, welfare, and prosperity of Mexico. Upon the value of our 
political connexion with that country — upon the importance of its 
being able to maintain itself in a state of entire and secure inde- 
pendence — I will not now expatiate, though I shall have occasion 
t.o notice this consideration before I sit dow^n. The petitioners 
pray the House, " to adopt measures to protect their interests, and 
induce Spain to desist from such expeditions, or else to prevent 
them, as they can only terminate in disgrace and loss to herself, 
and injury to other parties connected with Mexico." There are 
two questions which naturally arise from considering this prayer. 
First, have we the right, or rather have we not incurred the obli- 
gation, to interfere for the purpose of preventing the attacks of 
Spain upon the New States, at least attacks proceeding from 
Cuba? Secondly, if we have not incurred that peculiar obliga- 
tion, have we not, nevertheless, a general right, in common with 
all maritime neutral states, or I might say in common witli all 
civilized nations, to insist upon a suspension of hostilities between 
Spain and her late colonies on the continent of America — I say, 
" a suspension of hostilities," because, whilst I shall contend that 
neutral nations have that right, I fully admit that they cannot 
carry it further, and that the time and mode of recognition is a 
question for Spain, and not for them to determine. 

First, in respect to our peculiar obligation to prevent attacks 
from Cuba, I will state, as I understand them, the facts and cir- 
cumstances which bear upon this question. Late in the year 
1824, or I believe in the beginning of 182.5, when this country 
had recently recognized Colombia and Mexico as independent 
powers, those States, being belligerents against Spain, thought 
proper, with a view to prevent attacks upon their own territories, 
to concert an attack on the island of Cuba. On the part of 
Mexico, a very considerable body of forces assembled at Cam- 
peachy, under the command of General Santa Anna, the same to 
whom General Barradas surrendered last autumn, (^olombia 
had collected her naval forces at Carthagena, and had brought 
down some of her best troops for the purpose of aiding in a de- 
scent on Cuba. At that time the island thus menaced was weakly 
garrisoned, and such a feeling prevailed amongst the inhabitants, 
as rendered it probable that.it might separate itself from the 
mother country, if opportunity and encouragement were aflbrded. 



572 STATE OF BRITISH POLITICAL AND 

When I recollect that at the period in question the two powers — 
Mexico and Colombia — possessed great financial and other re- 
sources, joined with high credit, it is only reasonable to conclude 
that the attempt upon Cuba, if made, would have been successful. 
But the matter does not rest upon my conjecture or my authority ; 
I shall quote the authority of an individual, whose oiiicial station 
in the Government of the Uiiiied States gave him the most ample 
nneans of information — means, of which, doubtless, he made the 
best use, as his country was deeply interested in the question. 
The authority to which I allude is contained in a letter addressed 
by Mr. Clay, then Secretary of State, to one of the ministers of 
the United States in Europe, and dated the 10th of May 1825, 
from which the following is an extract : — " The success of the 
enterprise is by no means improbable. Their (Colombia and 
Mexico) proximity to the islands (Cuba and Porto Rico), and 
their armies being perfectly acclimated, will give to the united 
efforts of the republics great advantages. And if with these be 
taken into the estimate, the important and well-known fact, that 
a large portion of the inhabitants of the island is predisposed to 
a separation from Spain, and would, therefore, form a powerful 
auxiliary to the republican arms, their success becomes almost 
certain." 

In a subsequent letter, written in the same year, Mr. Clay says, 
— " The fall of the castle of Saint Juan de Ulloa, which capitu- 
lated on the 18th day of last month, cannot fail to have a power- 
ful effect within that kingdom (Spain). We are informed that 
when information of it reached the Havannah, it produced great 
and general sensation ; and that the local government immediate- 
ly dispatched a fast-sailing vessel to Cadiz to communicate the 
event, and, in its name, to implore the King immediately to termi- 
nate the war and acknowledge the new republics, as the only 
means of preserving Cuba to the monarchy." 

I believe, that it would not have been preserved but for the 
interposition of the United States and his Majesty's Government, 
which both directed their efibrts, though acting without concert, 
and upon a view of their own separate interests, to prevent the 
severing of Cuba from the Crown of Spain. The meditated 
attack naturally excited uneasiness in this country and in the 
United States. The position of Cuba induced America to inter- 
pose, for the purpose of persuading the New States to abandon 
the expedition ; and Mr. Canning on the part of the British Gov- 
ernment, had, I doubt not (althougli no official record of the fact 
appeai-s to have been preserved in the records of the Foreign 
Office), an interview with the Mexican and Colombian ministers 
on the subject. Mr. Canning is understood to have explained to 
those individuals the feelings of pain and regret with which Eng- 



COMMERCIAL RELATIONS WITH MEXICO. 573 

land viewed the progress of the expedition ; and to have added, 
that we should not be indifferent to any event that might tend to 
disturb the tranquillity of Cuba. I have a general recollection 
that the ministry of this country did thus interpose, and I feel 
bound to say, that those who advised his Majesty at that period 
would have been guilty of a great oversight and neglect of duty, 
if they had not endeavoured to prevent an attempt, which, by 
making Cuba the theatre of a civil war, a war in which the black 
population would almost inevitably have taken a part, might not 
only have endangered the safety of the most valuable colony of 
Great Britain, but would, in its results, have exposed to great 
hazard the state of peace now happily existing between all the 
great maritime powers of the world. 

It is probable that Mr. Canning urged as a further motive for 
forbearance on the part of Mexico and Colombia, that they would 
thereby place this country in a better situation to mediate and 
call upon Spain to listen to propositions of amity and conciliation 
as between her and her late colonies. But, be that as it may, 
these states were clearly inclined at the time (as their conduct 
showed) to receive with the greatest deference the expression of 
the wishes of this country. They relied with a reverential con- 
fidence on our friendly disposition towards them, and on our sin- 
cere desire to consult and promote their happiness. I am sorry 
to perceive that an impression has since arisen in some quarters, 
that we now repent ourselves of our former generosity tow^ards 
these states, and that we are rather ashamed of our new con- 
nexions: however, I am convinced that the opinion has no found- 
ation whatever in truth. I am convinced that it is impossible 
for this country, after all that has occurred, not to entertain the 
greatest anxiety for the welfare, prosperity, and general trantjuil- 
lity of the new governments. It was under the influence of such 
a feeling that his Majesty was advised to recognise those states, 
and I am sure that the same favourable feeling still exists. But 
to return from this digression: in consequence of the interposition 
of England and America, the republics desisted from their enter- 
prise, which they totally abandoned, notwithstanding the expense 
that had been incurred in preparations, and sent their troops into 
the interior. Four or five years have elapsed since this interposi- 
tion on our part, and during that time the ministers of the New 
States, I am assured, have more than once inquired whether the 
same principles of interposition continued, in the event of an 
attack upon Cuba being meditated. They were told that our 
objections to an attack still continued in full force. During these 
four or five years what has Spain been doing? She has been 
employed in recruiting her forces, and adding to her resources: 
availing herself of the advantage of having her towns garrison- 



574 STATE OF BRITISH P0IJTI*5AL AND 

ed and her police managed by the troops of a foreign power, she 
was enabled to unite her forces at Cuba for the purpose of attack- 
ing and endeavouring to recover her ancient colonies. 

Land forces and a marine having been collected, an expedition 
proceeded in the month of August last from the Havannah 
against Mexico. I would ask, was the British Government ap- 
prised of this expedition 1 And I should like to know whether 
we made any remonstrance against it? Did Ministers say to 
Spain — " As we protected Cuba from the republics, we feel 
bound not to allow Cuba to be made the rendezvous of expedi- 
tions intended for the attack of those States ? If ministers did 
not act in this way, at least, they have not fulfilled the obligations 
of a strict and impartial neutrality; and, if such remonstrances 
were made, I am sorry to say that they have not been attended 
to by Spain, which, in this respect, acted dil^erently from the New 
States of South America. The expedition, which seems to have 
been projected under the mistaken impression that the inhabitants 
of the republics w^ould declare in favour of Spain upon the ar- 
rival of a Spanish armament, sailed from Cuba and landed with- 
out opposition on the continent, where they remained some time 
before a force could be collected to attack them. During all this 
time they were not joined by a single Mexican, and the inhabit- 
ants did not even supply them with provisions : eventually, they 
were obliged to lay down their arms. 

I have no difficulty in saying, that it must be the wish of every 
maritime power in Europe, (and of England above all others, as 
being the greatest maritime and commercial nation in the world,) 
that Cuba should remain tranquilly and peaceably in the posses- 
sion of Spain, as I hope it will. It m.ust, therefore, be the wish 
of all, but more especially of this country, that none of those 
occurrences out of which maritime contests might arise, should 
take place; and upon this ground I am justified in saying, that 
Cuba ought not to be allowed to become the point from which 
expeditions should proceed to attack Mexico or Colombia. 

When, early in the session, this subject was brought before the 
House by my gallant friend opposite,* the right honourable Secre- 
tary for the Home Department said, that England would thence- 
forward observe between the belligerents the most careful and 
strict impartiality. If the right honom-able gentleman meant by 
impartiality that, as we were not able to prevent the attacks of 
Spain upon her ancient colonies from Cuba, we would now re- 
move our interdict, and allow the States of Mexico and Colombia 
to attack Cuba in their turn, such an impartiality is no better than 
a mockery. To be impartial, we must place the parties as they 



*Sir Robert Wilson. 



COMMERCIAL RELATIONS WITH MEXICO. 575 

Stood in 18:25, or, if we cannot do that — and there is no question 
that we cannot — our only mode of proceeding is, to put (vuba 
under the same interdict as regards warHke expeditions against 
the New States, as that which we imposed upon them with re- 
spect to armaments directed from their shores against Cuba. 
Although at tl)e present moment it is impossible for the New 
States to attack Cuba, yet, in the course of the war, if it be con- 
tinued, the tables may be turned, and perhaps they will be in a 
situation to do so. If so, in all probability, our impartiality will 
be again at fault, and we shall feel it necessary to protect Cuba, 
as we have done before. 

Taking the matter in another light, — Spain is a belligerent. As 
long as she continues so, her possessions — Cuba or any other — 
are exposed to all the hazards of war; there is no preventing 
this risk upon any fair principle. Neither is this the only danger 
to which the continuance of war exposes that most valuable pos- 
session of the Spanish monarchy. Recollect what occurred at 
Cadiz in 1820. Is there no danger in having a large body of 
Spanish troops collected in the island of Cuba? Is there no 
danger of feelings of dissatisfaction being created among those 
who have to support the troops? Is there no danger of con- 
sequences at the Ilavannah similar to those which were the result 
of a like assemblage at Cadiz, and which might afford a pretence 
for a foreign force taking possession of Cuba, as the mutiny at 
Cadiz led to the occupation of Spain by the armies of France 1 
Under such circumstances, the best interests of all parties should 
induce Spain to put an end to the warfare altogether, or at least 
to consent that the island of Cuba should be excepted from its 
operations. Let it continue exempt from attack ; but then it 
must not be made the means of aggression. If this principle be 
once established and acted on, we shall have made great progress 
towards the termination of hostilities. 

But I do not stop here. I maintain that it is consistent with 
every principle of the law of nations, that Spain should now be 
required to put an end to this useless war. This is not only an 
abstract right recognized by all the great authorities upon inter- 
national law, but a right, the practical enforcement of which, in 
the present instance, it becomes the duty, as much as it is the 
interest, of other States to concert together. Seven years have 
elapsed since Spain held one'foot of soil in the New States; seven 
years are the ordinary period of what is even considered a long 
war, but here the combat has been protracted for one-and-twenty. 
It is now nearly seven years since, in the Minute of an official 
conference between Mr. Canning and Prince Polignac, we find 
it recorded, that the contest was utterly hopeless, and that the 
irreversible course of events had finally decided the separation 



576 STATE OF BRITISH POLITICAL AND 

of Spain from her former colonies, "When a contest becomes 
altogether hopeless, and the object of it, however just in its 
origin, is admitted on all hands to be unattainable, the interests 
of humanity require it to be terminated ; because war in the ab- 
stract, and of itself, is too great an evil to admit of its being con- 
tinued indefinitely, to gratify the spite or animosity of individuals. 
But if this be a general principle, founded upon the exercise of 
what waiters upon the law of nations would call " an imperfect 
right," in neutral states, the application of this principle becomes 
infinitely more imperative, when the essential interests of those 
neutral states, and eventually, perhaps, the preservation of peace 
and harmony between themselves, are involved. This is the 
habitual practice of nations. 

What did we do with respect to Greece ? Did we not inter- 
pose, by the treaty of the 6th of July 1827, when the civil war 
between Turkey and Greece had been carried on only four or 
five years? Even after so short a period of hostilities, feeling 
the ill eflTects of piracy and other interruptions to commerce, the 
great powers of Europe considered that they had abundant rea- 
son to interpose. Have there been no piracies, and those of the 
most atrocious character, in the Gulf of Mexico? Has no injury 
been inflicted on British commerce, in consequence of the pro- 
tracted struggle between Spain and her late colonies? Why, 
Sir, so far back as in 1822, we were even on the point of issuing 
letters of reprisal for the injuries done to British commerce. 
However, a treaty was signed with Spain, guaranteeing remune- 
ration for our losses ; and after a lapse of nine or ten years, I 
believe we have at length obtained about thirty or forty per cent, 
of their amount. Is any Gentleman prepared to say, that a war 
involving and compromising such interests is to be permitted to 
continue, till the States of Mexico and Colombia shall cease to 
assert their independence, or Spain be disposed to acknowledge 
it? If such a principle be propounded and recognised, the war 
may be interminable. 

I know that in the State Paper to which I have alluded, Mr. 
Canning said, he should observe a strict neutrality in the contest. 
This declaration necessarily assumed that, every legitimate object 
of the war being at an end, the war itself would not be indefinite- 
ly continued. This, in reason and common sense, is the prescrip- 
tive term of every war, and at that term the present contest has 
long since arrived. To argue otherwise, would be to admit, that 
a war once begun between two belligerents might be intermin- 
able, whatever were the evils and dangers with which it threaten- 
ed third parties. 

The wise policy of Spain would be frank and unreserved re- 
cognition ; — would be conciliation, and the revival, for the mutual 



COMMERCIAL RELATIONS WITH MEXICO. 577 

benefit of both parties, of those sentiments of kindred and com- 
mon origin, which twenty years of warfare may have weakened, 
but have not eradicated. These, however, are matters for her 
own consideration. If, from mistaken pride, or from a false sense 
of dignity, she will not enter into relations of amity with the 
New States, she is the mistress of her own feelings, and it is our 
duty to respect those feelings. Ail that we have a right to re- 
quire is a truce to the useless evils of war. To grant such a 
truce can be no disparagement to the crown of Spain. The 
monarch of the present day would only be acting upon a prin- 
ciple of which the annals of Spain, in the prouder days of her 
power, furnish the example. In 1609, after a struggle of many 
years duration with her revolted provinces in the Netherlands — 
a struggle in which torrents of blood had been shed, and civil 
war had raged in its fiercest character, Spain consented to a 
truce for twelve years; though it was not till the year 1648 that 
she entered into a regular treaty of peace with those provinces, 
by which she, for the first time, recognised them as an indepen- 
dent sovereign state. Let the present government of Spain grant 
a truce for twelve years, and I, for one, shall be then satisfied to 
wait her own leisure for the period of their recognition. 

But, Sir, if there are great political interests which should in- 
duce us to endeavour to maintain to Spain her present sovereignty 
and possession of Cuba and Porto Rico, there are other political 
considerations which make it not less important — if possible, still 
more important — that Mexico should settle into a state of inter- 
nal peace and tranquillity, and of entire and secure independence. 
/' If the United States have declared that they cannot allow the "^ 
island of Cuba to belong to any maritime power in Europe, Spain 
excepted, neither can England, as the first of those maritime 
powers — I say it fearlessly, because I feel it strongly — suffer the 
United States to bring under their dominion a greater portion of 
the shores of the Gulf of Mexico than that which they now pos- 
sess. Within the last twenty-seven years they have become mas- 
ters of all the shores of that gulf from the Point of Florida to 
the river Sabine, including the mouths of the Mississippi and of 
other great rivers, the port of New Orleans, and the valuable and 
secure harbours of Florida ; and, w^ithin these few days, we hear 
of their intention of forming a naval station and arsenal at the 
islands of the Dry TortOgas, a commanding position in the Gulf- 
stream between Florida and Cuba. With all this extent of coast 
and islands, we know, further, that designs are entertained, and 
daily acted upon — I will not say by the present government of 
the United States, but, notoriously, by the people — to get posses- 
sion of the fertile and extensive Mexican province of Texas. To 
borrow an expression of a deceased statesman of that country, 
49 3X 



578 STATE OF BRITISH POLITICAL AND 

" the whole people of America have their eye" upon that pro- 
vince. They look to all the country between the river Sabine 
and the river Bravo del Norte as a territory that must, ere long, 
belong to their union. They have also, I believe, that same eye 
upon some of the western coast of Mexico, possessing valuable 
ports in the Gulf of California. Should they obtain these dis- 
tricts, the independence of Mexico, I will venture to say, will be 
no better, or more secure, than that of the Creek Indians, or any 
other Indian tribe now living within the circle of the present re- 
cognised limits of the United States ; and the Gulf of Mexico 
will become as much a part of their waters as the Black Sea 
was once of the waters of Turkey, or as the channel which 
separates England from Ireland may be considered as part of the 
waters of the United Kingdom. 

I may be told. Sir, that these are visionary alarms, contem- 
plating schemes of aggrandizement and ambition which never 
have been, and probably never will be, entertained in any quarter. 
At this moment, I willingly admit that there exists a friendly dis- 
position in the government of the United States, and I cannot 
doubt that his Majesty's Government fully reciprocates that dis- 
position. Upon every account I am glad to see these two power- 
ful States living upon terms of honourable and mutual confidence, 
each relying upon the peaceful councils of the other. But it is 
not to be imputed to me that I am undervaluing this good under- 
standing, or that I am guilty of want of respect towards the 
United States, or even of discretion as an individual Member of 
Parliament, if, on this occasion, I do not lose sight of those cir- 
cumstances of a permanent nature which belong to the fixed 
policy of the United States, and to those motives of action which, 
however dormant at present, would probably be revived, under 
contingencies that, in the course of events, may hereafter arise, 
— contingencies, which the views and passions of the American 
people would not fail to turn to account for the attainment of a 
long-cherished and favourite object. 

At all periods of our history, the House of Commons has held 
topics of this nature to be fair grounds of Parliamentary consider- 
ation. Jealousy, for instance, of the aggrandizement of the 
House of Bourbon has always been held an element entitled to 
enter into every general discussion affecting the balance of power 
in Europe ; and I am sure there is nothing in the general charac- 
ter of democratic republics, or in the past conduct of the United 
States, from which we can infer, that their aspn%tions after 
power and aggrandizement are less steadily kept in view than 
those of an absolute monarch in Europe. In lookiap^o the future, 
let us consult the experience of the past. But, in me case of the 
New World, we have something more tl|an the f history of the 



COMMERCIAL RELATIONS WITH MEXICO. 579 

last thirty years to guide our judgment. The views and senti- 
ments of those who, during that period, have directed or influenc- 
ed the affairs of the United States, have been brought before us 
by the publication of their Correspondence. I am afraid the Uving 
statesmen of this country have scarcely had time to make them- 
selves acquainted with those views and sentiments, as they stand 
disclosed in the Memoirs and Correspondence of a deceased 
statesman of America, I mean the late Mr. Jefferson, a man who, 
from the period of their first declaration of independence, — a de- 
claration of which he was the author, — to the close of his life, 
seems to have possessed the greatest ascendancy in the councils 
of his country, and whose avowed principles and views appear to 
become every day more predominant in the public feelings of 
his countrymen. 

In respect to the Gulf of Mexico, and the immense interests, 
commercial, colonial, and maritime, which are closely connected 
with the navigation of that Gulf, these Memoirs are full of instruc- 
tion — I might say of admonitions, — well deserving the most seri- 
ous attention of the people of this country. I will not trouble the 
House with any long extracts from them ; but I cannot deny my- 
self the opportunity of pointing their attention to a few passages, 
which show how soon the United States, after they became a 
separate nation, fixed their eye upon the Gulf of Mexico, and 
how steadily and successfully they have watched and seized every 
opportunity to acquire dominion and ascendancy in that part of 
the world. Within seven years after the time when their inde- 
pendence had been established, and finally recognised in 1783, we 
find them setting up a claim of positive right to the free navi- 
gation of the Mississippi, from its source to the Gulf of Mexico ; 
and it is not a little curious to see what was the opportunity 
which they took of asserting their right against Spain, — a power 
which had materially assisted them in obtaining their indepen- 
dence. In the year 1790, it will be recollected that a dispute had 
arisen between England and Spain respecting Nootka Sound. 
Whilst these two countries were arming, and every thing appear- 
ed to threaten war between them, the United States thought that 
they saw, in the embarrassment of Spain, an opening to claim 
this navigation as of right. Whether such a claim could or 
could not be sustained by any principle of the law of nations, is a 
question which I will not now stop to examine. The affirmative 
was at once boldly assumed by America, and her demand pro- 
ceeded upon that assumption. The right once so affirmed, what 
does the House think was the corollary which the government of 
the United States built upon their assertion of that supposed 
right? I will give it in the words of Mr. Jefi^erson himself, not a 
private individual, but the Secretary of State, conveying the in- 



580 STATE OF BRITISH POLITICAL AND 

structions of his government to Mr. Carmichael, then the Ameri- 
can Envoy at Madrid : " You know," writes Mr. Jefferson, " that 
the navigation cannot be practised without a port, where the sea 
and river vessels may meet, and exchange loads, and where those 
employed about them may be safe and unmolested. The right to 
use a thing comprehends a right to the means necessary to its 
use, and without which it would be useless." I know not what 
the expounders of the law of nations in the Old World will have 
to say to this novel and startling doctrine. In this instruction, 
which is dated the 2d of August 1790, the principle is only laid 
down in the abstract. 

I will now show the House the special application of it to the 
claim in question, by quoting another letter from Mr. Jefferson to 
Mr. Short, the Amencan Envoy at Paris, dated only eight days 
after the former, namely, the 10th of August. It is as follows; — 
" The idea of ceding the island of New Orleans could not be 
hazarded to Spain, in the first step: it would be too disagreeable 
at first view ; because this island, with its town, constitutes, at 
present, their principal settlement in that part of their dominions 
(Louisiana), containing about ten thousand white inhabitants, of 
every age and sex. Reason and events, however, may, by little 
and little, familiarize them to it. That we have a right to some 
spot as an entrepot for our commerce may be at once affirmed. 
I suppose this idea (the cession of New Orleans) too much even 
for the Count de Montmorin at first, and that, therefore, you will 
find it prudent to urge, and get him to recommend to the Spanish 
Court, only in general terms, a port near the mouth of the river, 
with a circumjacent territory, sufficient for its support, well de- 
fined, and extra-territorial to Spain, leaving the idea to future 
growth." 

Contrary to the expectation of the United States when those 

' instructions were given, Great Britain and Spain settled their 
differences without an appeal to arms ; and, in consequence, these 
practical applications of the law of nations were no longer press- 
ed by the United States. Soon after, Spain became invok-'cd in 
war with France, and that war terminated in her being compel- 
led to cede Louisiana to the latter power. In 1803, that whole 
province was sold by France to the United States. By this pur- 
chase they acquired not only New Orleans, but a very extensive 
lerrj.tory within the Gulf of Mexico. I next go to the year 1806. 
Mr. Jefferson was then no longer Secretary of State — he had 
been raised to the more important post of President of the United 
States. In that character we find him writing to Mr. Monroe, 
then the American Minister in London, in the following terms : — 

' " We begin to broach the idea, that we consider the whole Gulf- 
stream as of our own waters, in which hostilities and cruising are 



COMMERCIAL RELATIONS WITH MEXICO. 581 

to be frowned on for the present, and prohibited so soon as cither 
consent or force will permit us." The letter from which this is 
an extract, is dated the 4th of May, 1806. 

If the. United States " broached this idea" in 1806, they are not 
likely to have abandoned it in 1819, when, in addition to Lou- 
isiana, they procured, by treaty with Spain, the further important 
cession of the Floridas. That it is a growing, rather than a 
waning, principle of their policy, I think we may infer from a 
letter, which we find in this (Correspondence, not written, indeed, 
by Mr. Jefierson in any public character, but addressed by him, 
as a person exercising from his retirement tjie greatest sway in 
the councils of the Union, to the President. This letter, dated so 
lately as the 24th of October 1823, discusses the interest of the 
United States in respect to Cuba and the Gulf of Mexico, and 
these are the statements which it avows : — " I candidly confess, 
that I ever looked on Cuba as the most interesting addition which 
could ever be made to our system of States. The control which, 
with Florida Point, this island would give us over the Gulf of 
Mexico, and the countries and isthmus bordering on it, as well as 
all those whose waters flow into it, would fill up the measure of 
our political well-being. Yet I am sensible that this can never 
be obtained, even with her own consent, but by war." 

That a war arising out of these pretensions may one day occur 
is, perhaps, but too probable. The progress which the United 
States have already made towards the attainment of objects so 
manifestly within their contemplation, calls upon us not to regard 
that contingency as one which provident statesmen may salely 
dismiss from their minds. It is their duty to neglect no measure 
of justice within their power to prevent it. The rest must be left 
to Providence. But if there be any one course of policy, on the 
part of this country, more likely than another to retard that 
calamity, it is to be found in those measures which are most like- 
ly to heal the wounds of Mexico, — to enable her to establish her 
government upon a firm and solid basis, — to encourage her in- 
dustry, and to put her in a condition to guard her territory against 
every attempt, either openly made, or indirectly pursued, to trench 
upon her power and independence. For this purpose, slie must 
be relieved from the necessity of maintaining a military fierce, 
disproportioned to her resources, by the constant dread of desul- 
tory attacks from Cuba. The government and supreme authority 
of the state must no longer be the sport of an army, licentious 
because ill paid, w^asting the productive capitals of the country, 
partly from the necessity, but more, |)erhaps, from the extrava- 
gant and demoralizing habits which such elements of revolution 
never fail to engender. Let Mexico be at her ease in respect to 
attacks from Spain, and she will soon become a valuable ally of 
49* 



582 STATE OF BRITISH RELATIONS WITH MEXICO. 

this country, with all her interests bound up and identified with 
the best interests of Great Britain in the New World. On the 
other hand, let her remain much longer in her present harassed 
and exhausting condition, and the poverty of her treasury, — the 
necessity of making head against those attacks, may throw her 
into the arms of the United States, and force her to sacrifices 
which would inevitably bring on a maritime war, unless this 
country be prepared to abandon her colonial empire, her com- 
mercial pretensions, and, with them, her maritime ascendancy in 
the New World. 

Sir, I will not pursue these topics further. I trust I have said 
enough to point the attention of Parliament and of the country 
to their vast importance ; and, if so, I am sure that I shall stand 
justified for the unusual length at which I have detained the 
House upon the mere presentation of a petition. One part of the 
subject, however, remains to be noticed, and it is brought to my 
recollection by the motion of the honourable member for Calling- 
ton,* which stands for this evening. It is from Mexico that the 
great supply of the precious metals is derived, and the whole of 
Europe is now suffering from the obstruction of that supply. The 
only speedy, certain, and efficacious relief for that suflbring, so 
far as it is produced by a general depression of prices, is to be 
found in the productiveness of the mines of that country. I have 
never denied that the pressure which prevails in this country, 
upon all the active classes of the community, is, in a great de- 
gree, to be ascribed to the progressive fall in the money value of 
all commodities. This fall has occasioned great hardship, and 
produced considerable discontent in every part of Europe. There 
is no state, therefore, that has not the greatest interest in the com- 
plete restoration of the mining industry of Mexico. But this is 
not to be hoped for so long as war continues. Where there is so 
great a common concern, a joint but decided effort ought to be 
made by all the powers of Europe for the speedy restoration of 
peace between Spain and her former colonies. Let them, one 
and all, insist upon the termination of hostilities, useless for every 
object of legitimate warfare, — calamitous to both the belligerent 
parties, — and seriously affecting the comfort and happiness of 
every other civilized community. I have now only to move that 
the petition be brought up. 

*Mr. Attwood. 



( 583 ) 



MR. HUSKISSON'S EXPOSITION OF THE STATE 
OF THE COUNTRY. 

MARCH 16th, 1830. 

This day Mr. E. D. Davenport moved, " that the Petitions presented to 
the House, complaining of the Distresses of various classes of the Community, 
be referred to a Committee of tiie whole House, with a view to inquire into the 
causes of their grievances and the remedy thereof." Upon which, Sir 
Charles Burrell moved, as an amendment, " that a Select Committee be ap- 
pointed to inquire into the causes of the national distress, and whether any 
and what remedies can be applied." 

Mr. HusKissoN rose, and spoke in substance as follows : — 

Sir ; — The principal arguments which have hitherto been ad- 
duced in favour of the motion, — I might, indeed, say the whole 
— by those who have given it an unqualified support, turn upon 
some undefined alteration, which they wish to effect in our Cur- 
rency. 

The honourable baronet who immediately preceded me, has 
ventured into the field of prophecy. He predicts, that we must, 
ere long, come to one of these alternatives — either a depreciation 
of the currency, by a return to an inconvertible paper circula- 
tion, or a national bankruptcy. The honourable baronet fortifies 
himself in this prediction by quoting one from Mr. Hume, whom 
he describes as a true prophet, for having foretold, in his Essay 
upon Public Credit, " that bankruptcy would be, at no distant 
period, the inevitable result of the extension of our debt." Many 
years have elapsed — more than seventy — since this prediction of 
the philosopher was given to the world. I hope that the honour- 
able baronet may, for as many years, continue to survive his 
prophecy, and to serve his country ; but however long his life may 
be, I trust that many more years will pass away, as in the case 
of Mr. Hume, before the honourable baronet is found to have been 
a truer prophet than his predecessor has proved. 

Now, Sir, I trust that neither the honourable member for 
Shaftesbury, who has originated this motion, nor my honourable 
friend, the member for Shoreham, who has moved the amend- 
ment, will consider that I am wanting in respect to them, if I 
decline to argue, at any length, the state of our Currency, in 
reference to the alterations which were made in it between the 



584 MR. HUSKISSON'S EXPOSITION OF THE 

origin of its derangement in 1797 and its final restoration in 
1819. From the period of the BuUion Committee, of which I 
was a member in 1810, I have so often had occasion to state my 
opinions on this — the great, though not the only, source, of the 
difficulties of the country — that I willingly leave to others the task 
of following the honourable gentlemen upon this exhausted sub- 
ject. I will only state, that in 1819, when the Bill, now called 
Mr. Peel's Act, was bi'ought in, I was unavoidably kept away 
from the House by illness ; otherwise I should have given to that 
measure my active and cordial support. In 1822, when a motion 
was brought forward by the honourable member for Essex, for 
revising that act, and altering the standard of value, I had an 
opportunity of stating very fully my sentiments upon the subject. 
To that motion I moved an Amendment in the following words, 
" That this House will not alter the standard of the gold and silver 
coins of this realm, in weight, fineness, or denomination." In this 
amendment, after two nights' debate, the House concurred, by a 
majority of 194 to 30. 

If this, Sir, was the resolution of the House, three years only 
after the act of 1819, how much more ought we to adhere to it 
in 1830! The greatest of all curses to an opulent and commer- 
cial country, is a system of vacillation, unsteadiness, and alterna- 
tion in its standard of value, frequently disturbing and unsettling 
the property and fortunes of individuals, and destroying the foun- 
dation of confidence and security in all contracts and pecuniary 
dealings between man and man, as well as in the honour and 
good faith of the government. I wish I could say that there are 
no other causes connected with our Currency (even as it now is), 
which, by afTecting commercial credit, render alternations in its 
value far too frequent, and which I think it ought to be our duty 
to endeavour to correct. 

Were I prepared to admit — which I certainly am not — that 
in 1819 we should have been justified in lowering the standard 
of our currency, instead of simply restoring it, I must not the less 
contend, that we can exercise no such discretion now. I know 
there are many well-informed persons who take a different view 
from me, of the course which we might have pursued in 1819, 
when we had to make a choice upon this subject. It is quite 
consistent in them, thinking that we committed an error in 1819, 
to maintain, as most of them, I believe, do, that it is now better 
to endure the evils which that error has brought upon us, than to 
venture to disturb the settlement once made, at the risk of all the 
disquietude, alarm, and derangement, which would inevitably 
attend such an attempt. From the prevalence of this feeling, I 
am not afraid that any such attempt will find many partisans in 
this House; and I own that I consider it a necessary preliminary 



STATE OF THE COUNTRY. 686 

to the efficacy of every suggestion of relief, that we should, if 
possible, pronounce ourselves so decidedly on the permanence of 
our present monetary system, as finally to set at rest all hopes 
and fears on this too long agitated question. 

There is one branch, indeed, of this subject which does not, I 
admit, involve any necessary alteration in the standard of our 
currency: I mean, the circulation of one-pound notes, convertible 
into coin upon demand. Their suppression rests upon distinct 
grounds. It is manifest that notes, of the same denomination with 
our principal gold coin, cannot be allowed, without the effect 
being to drive the latter out of circulation. Such, therefore, 
would be the consequence of small notes being again permitted. 
Upon the first excitement in trade, leading to a general iinprove- 
ment in prices, these notes would be largely issued to facilitate 
speculatioris. The foreign exchanges, for a time, would not be 
materially affected, because these speculations, as far as they led 
to payments abroad, would be provided for by the exportation of 
our gold coin. In this mode, the greater part of our coin, as well 
that deposited in the Bank, as that in circulation, might gradually 
disappear, the exchanges still remaining very slightly afiected. 
The importation of foreign goods would be promoted by this 
large exportation of our coin, and by the rise of all commodities 
in this country. Every thing would appear prosperous; but the 
prosperity would be short-lived and delusive. The time would 
come in which the Bank of England, alarmed for its own safety 
by the lowering of its treasure, would be under the necessity of 
taking decisive measures to protect itself. The effect would be 
a renewal of the panic of 1825, and of all the miserable conse- 
quences by which it has been followed. If, therefore, we make 
up our minds again to encourage the circulation of small notes, 
we must be prepared for one of these alternatives — either their 
paving the way for, and gradually leading to, another Bank Re- 
striction (from which we so narrowly escaped at the end of the 
year 1825), — or for alternations of fictitious prosperity, such as 
immediately preceded that crisis, to be followed by overwhelm- 
ing distress, such as that by which it was terminated. Upon this 
ground, it is a great satisfaction to me to find, that his INIajesty's 
Government have resolved to maintain the suppression of one- 
pound notes in England ; not because they are in themselves de- 
preciation, but because, so long as they are suffered to exist, you 
can only escape the greater calamity of restriction, leading to an 
inconvertible paper currency, by the evil only second to it in 
degree, that of such a calamity as befell us in the autumn of 1825. 

Looking to the motion, however, in its more general character, 
I am not one of those who have underrated the present distress. 
The numerous petitions attest its existence, and a docuinent, 
3Y 



586 MR. HUSKISSON'S EXPOSITION OF THE 

recently distributed to the members of this House, is unfortunate- 
ly no slight confirmation that their allegations are but too well 
founded. The document to which I allude, is, " An Account of 
the monthly amount of the sums paid in and paid out, on account 
of Savings' Banks, for the last two years." The year 1828 exhibits 
the following amounts — paid in, 945,448/. — drawn out, 678,420/. : 
— the year 1829, paid in, 449,493— drawn out, 1,444,937/. The 
figures,* and the comparison which they aflbrd, speak for them- 
selves, and must be taken as a strong indication of the increasing 
difficulties of the laborious classes in the year 1829. But whilst 
I acknowdedge, and deeply lament, the intensity of suffering and 
misery which have been endured in many quarters, especially 
during the last severe winter, I cannot take that gloomy and 
hopeless view of our situation, to which some appear to yield 
themselves up. I never can' believe, that a country like England, 
however crippled for a time by some derangement in the system 
of its interior economy, can be reduced, all at once, to a helpless 
weakness, and irremediable decay. I have a more just reliance 
upon the sources of our wealth and power, and in every branch 
which constitutes the substantial riches and real strength of the 
country, its agriculture, its commerce, its manufactures, its im- 
mense accumulation of fixed capital, the energy of our national 
character, and the indefatigable industry of an ingenious, enter- 
prising, and orderly population. I have a further ground of well 
founded confidence for the present, and of sanguine hope for the 
future, in an enlightened public opinion, exercising every year 
more and more, under the benefits of free discussion, its salutary 
influence upon the councils of ministers, as well as upon the deli- 
berations of Parliament. There is no man, I think, who can 
read the signs of the times, who can recollect the occurrences of 
the last, or who witnesses those of the present session — those I 
might say which have marked the present week, — without feel- 
ing this consolation. This growth of intelligence, it is true, is not 
in itself either productive industry or national wealth: but it is 
the shield which protects both against the encroachments of power, 
and the errors of empiricism. It is the finger-post, which, in the 
hour of doubt and difficulty, points the path of safety, and guides 
us in the career of national improvement. 

Admitting then, as I do, the existence of distress, but hoping, 
at the same time, that, for the present at least, we have seen its 
worst, it still becomes my duty, whilst I chng to that hope, to 
inquire into the causes which, in the midst of profound peace, 

*The difference has, in some degree, been since accounted for by a 
change in the law, and in the reduction of the rate of interest allowed by 
Government, which took place in November 1828. 



STATE OF THE COUNTRY. 587 

have produced such frequent recurrences of public embarrass- 
ment. 

It appears to me, Sir, — and it is well known to several of my 
right honourable friends, that my opinion is of much longer stand- 
ing than the present emergency, — that the main dilhculty, not an 
occasional, but rather an habitual diihculty, under which this 
country labours, is the too great pressure upon the springs and 
sources of productive industry : and that this pressure, from the 
very circumstance of its being too great in ordinary times, be- 
comes excessive, and is subject to fits of exacerbation, from any 
incidental casualty, such as an ungenial season, or a temporary 
derangement in any considerable branch of our manufactures or 
trade. To a casualty of this description we must always be 
liable, but it ought not to reduce us to sufiering like that which 
we now endure, if we had been before in a robust and healthy 
condition. 

If I am asked the cause of the habitual existence of this too 
great pressure, I can only state the impression of my own mind. 
It is simply this, that, in the distribution of the annua] income of 
the country, by which I mean every thing, having value in ex- 
change, that is raised and produced by the labour of its inhabit- 
ants, and from which fund are derived the subsistence, the com- 
forts, and the enjoyments of all, from the monarch to the pea- 
sant, — I say that, in its distribution, the portion of it reserved for 
reproduction is now, and has been for some years, less than it 
ought to be, either for the well-being of the labouring classes — 
the immediate instrument of that reproduction, — or for the due 
maintenance, and progressive growth, of the capitals by which 
their labour is called into active exertion. 

I am aware that, in this statement, I have only said in other 
words, that the wages of labour have been too low, and the pro- 
fits of fructifying or productive capital less than they ought to be: 
but there is an advantage, in a discussion like the present, in 
describing these evils, so as to trace them to their elementary 
causes. 

Many concurrent circumstances have contributed, since the 
restoration of peace, to produce this unsatisfactory state of things. 
Over some of the causes to which it may be traced, we have, 
from different reasons, little or no control: for instance, we can- 
not regulate the course of the seasons, or the competition of other 
countries with the products of our own in the foreign market. 
Neither can we interpose our authority — God forbid we should ! 
— to stop the progress of improvement in mechanical or chemical 
science, or to interfere between landlord and tenant or in the 
other pecuniary dealings of society. To the consequences of 
other causes of difficulty we have deliberately submitted, as the 



688 MR. HUSKISSON'S EXPOSITION OF THE 

only way of escaping from far greater evils ; for instance, in 
putting an end to an inconvertible paper currency. 

But there are causes which, if they have produced any part of 
the evil, are completely within our control. I allude now to that 
change in our commercial policy, to which so much of our 
present distress has been ascribed, by clamour out of doors, and 
by more than one speaker in this debate. When people are suffer- 
ing, nothing is more easy, and, with superficial observers, more 
common, than to raise, or join in, any cry which sav^es the trouble 
of thinking. Free Trade, as it has been absurdly nicknamed, by 
those who use words without knowing what they themselves 
mean, has in this way been denounced by the disappointed selfish- 
ness of some, and adopted without consideration by others, as the 
source of all our difficulties. It has been so designated by the 
honourable Alderman,* one of the members for the City of Lon- 
don, by the honourable members for Cornwall and Newark, and 
by others; but none of these honourable members ever con- 
descend to tell us what they mean, or understand, by Free Trade. 
It is of this that I have before complained, and that I again com- 
plain on this occasion. Do they know the changes which have 
been made in our commercial policy, since the restoration of 
peace ? If they do, why not point out to this house specifically 
the alterations of which they disapprove, and move, as it is fully 
competent for them to do, for the repeal of the particular Acts 
by which they have been affected, and for the revival of Acts, 
now no longer upon the Statute Book, by which industry and 
trade would again be placed under their former regulations? 
Would not this course be more consistent with the straightforward 
duty of legislation, than to give their countenance to a senseless 
clamour, and to keep up delusion and irritation among a suffering 
people, instead of making any attempt to administer that relief^ 
which, if they have faith in their own declamations, it is in their 
power to propose? I say now, as I have said before, it is the duty 
of those gentlemen to tell us, intelligibly and in detail, what it is 
that has been done which ought to be undone, and what they 
would substitute for that which is now in existence. Every 
challenge of this sort they have hitherto declined, forgetting that 
it is scarcely fair to arraign a system which they are not pre- 
pared to amend, and that they are sent here, not to aggravate 
what is wrong by inflammatory denunciations, but to correct it 
by calm counsel and appropriate remedies. This is a duly which 
they cannot expect to devolve upon those who differ with them 
in principle ; and if they are not prepared to act upon it them- 
selves, their omission is equally unjustifiable towards those who 

* Alderman Waithman. 



STATE OF THE COUNTRY. 589 

concur in their opinions, and towards Parliament, of which the 
measures are the objects of their obloquy and abuse; and when 
1 say Parhament, perhaps, as the individual in this House most 
immediately responsible for those measures, and who, as such, 
has come in for the greatest share of that ohkxjuy and abuse, I 
too may be allowed personally to complain of the injustice 
towards myself of this continued dereliction of their duty. Six 
or seven hundred statutes, passed for improving the commerce 
and industry of the country by a system of protection, prohibi- 
tion, restriction, and interference, have been repealed. How 
jnany of these laws do they propose to re-enact? Or do they 
wish to revive the whole, with all their vexatious, conflicting, fre- 
t]uently contradictory, and invariably absurd, regulations? Do 
they wish again to introduce prohibition as a principle for the 
encouragement of trade, and to revive monopoly as a benefit to 
the consumer ? If they do, in God's name, let them make the at- 
tempt, and let Parliament, under the guidance of common sense 
and public opinion, decide betv/een the advocates of such a 
system, and the support of what they deride, but dare not discuss, 
as the system of Free Trada 

The honourable Baronet who spoke last indeed, the member 
for the county of Cornwall, has denounced that system as one 
which has for its sole object to force exports. There cannot be 
a more mistaken view of the subject. A forcing system, either 
of exports or imports, is altogether at variance with the policy 
which it has been my duty to recommend. That policy has been 
rather to put an end to such a system, and without any forcing, 
to leave to individuals to follow their own views, to regulate 
their own speculations, and to consult their own interests. This 
I consider to be a general rule, applicable alike to the industry 
and the commerce of the country. Exceptions to it may be 
justified upon grounds of special expediency ; but they ought to 
be watched with the more jealousy, as every such exception is a 
departure from that course which, in the long-run, must be most 
conducive to public prosperity. 

We are told, indeed, by the honourable Alderman, and others 
of his school, who cannot deny that the quantity of goods export- 
ed of late years has greatly increased, that the more you export, 
the greater your loss; and the foundation of this almost ludicrous 
doctrine is, that the aggregate value of such exports has diminish- 
ed in a greater proportion than the quantity exported has in- 
creased. Do the advocates of this doctrine seriously mean to 
contend, that our export trade, upon an average, is a losing con- 
cern, and that it goes on increasing, year after year, in proportion 
as it becomes more and more unprofitable? When I ask them 
this question, I do not mean to deny that some adventures have 
50 



590 MR. HUSKISSON'S EXPOSITION OF THE 

been attended with loss; that upon others the profit has been very- 
small ; but I cannot believe that men of common sense, prudence, 
and calculation, w^ould, for a great length of time, persevere, 
much less that they should voluntarily increase their speculations, 
in any trade, when the amount of loss and not of profit (however 
low the latter) was to be measured by the scale of such specula- 
tions. In fact. Sir, 1 have one short answer to the tenets of that 
school of which the honourable Alderman and the honourable 
member for Newark are now the acknowledged chiefs. It is 
this, — If you resort at all to the foreign market, you must be con- 
tent to sell your commodities for the prices which you can pro- 
cure in competition with the like articles, the produce of any 
other countries. You cannot control their capital, — you cannot 
regulate their industry — and do you expect to improve the chance 
of meeting them at equal prices, by subjecting your own people 
to restraints and burthens, from which those with whom they 
have to compete are free? The honourable Alderman, therefore, 
must make his election ; either our export trade must cease, or 
we must be content with the price which the foreign market will 
yield. The purchaser in that market concerns himself very little 
about the cost of production here, or elsewhere; quality and price 
are the considerations by which he is governed, in his choice 
between the British and the foreign competitor. Now, if this be 
the principle which regulates every foreign market to which our 
merchants resort, does it not follow, as a necessary consequence, 
that the price, in our own market, of every article, the like of 
which we export for foreign consumption, must be regulated by 
the selling price abroad 1 If the price abroad be permanently de- 
pressed, the home price must partake of that depression. This 
must be my first answer to those who tell us, that the home 
market of the country is every thing, the only market deserving 
of encouragement. The home trade must, of necessity, be of 
great importance, and value ; but it has been sacrificed, ruined, 
and put down (we are told) by the forcing and encouragement 
given, under the new system, to our export trade. To maintain 
this position the following argument, if argument it can be called, 
is had recourse to. The increase of our export trade has been 
followed by a more than proportionate decrease of the home 
trade; by forcing the one you have injured the other, and the 
result is, that both have become unprofitable. I know not how 
to measure the home trade, except by the home consumption. It 
may be difficult, especially for an individual like myself, unaided 
by the facilities which office affords, to ascertain accurately the 
amount of that consumption. I have, however, endeavoured, by 
a reference to the returns to this House, and with tlie aid of some 
most intelligent friends in the mercantile line, to collect informa- 



STATE OF THE COUNTRY. 591 

tion upon this point ; and I will now, with the permission of the 
House, state the result. I have selected articles of the most ex- 
tensive use in the manufactures of this country, and I have made 
my comparison upon the consumption of five years ; namely, from 
1816 (I select this as the year of the highest return) to 1820, both 
inclusive, and in like manner for the last five years, from 1824 to 
1828. 

The first article to which I shall refer is Cotton Wool. The 
average annual importation, from 1816 to 1820, was 139,141,646 
lbs.: — the average annual importation from 1824 to 1828 was 
210,886,992 lbs. The average annual exportation of Cotton Wool 
for the same periods was, for the first, 11,873,800 lbs., for the 
second, 21,298,800 lbs.; leaving of Cotton Wool for manufac- 
ture in this country, an annual average, for the first period, of 
127,267,846 lbs.; and for the second, 189,588,192 lbs. These 
respective quantities were disposed of in each period, in the 
manufactured state, as nearly as can be ascertained, as follows : 
first — Cotton Yarn exported (one-eighth being added for waste), 
the annual average of the first period, 19,984,664 lbs. — in the 
second period, 48,472,202 lbs. : — secondly — Cotton Cloth exported 
(computing six yards of cloth of all kinds to be produced from 
one pound of cotton), annual average of the first period, 
255,507,058 yards— in the second period, 360,265,256 yards:— 
thirdly, — Cotton Cloth retained for home consumption (computing 
one pound of cotton to make five yards of cloth), in the first 
period, 227,003,484 yards— in the second period, 399,678,923 
yards. I may here just observe, that the estimate of six yards to 
the pound of cotton for foreign, and of five for home, consump- 
tion, is supposed to be the nearest approach to accuracy, by those 
who are pratically most conversant whh the manufacture. 

The next article is Sheep's Wool. The annual average im- 
portation of the first period is 14,443,834 lbs.; — of the second, 
28,356.417 lbs.: retained for home use, in the first period, 
14,430,917 lbs.;— in the second, 27,629,561 lbs.: official value 
of woollens exported in the first period — annual average, 
5,313,429/. ;— in the second, 5,763,632/. Now, the principal 
quantity of the wool imported is of the finer qualities ; and as the 
increase of export in the manufactured articles of woollen cloth 
is very irifling, it follows that a great increase of consumption 
must have taken place in this country; unless it be maintained 
(which it certainly cannot, the reverse being the fact), that the 
growth of British Wool has been diminished in a degree corre- 
sponding with the increased foreign supjjly. The increased home 
consumption is principally in fine cloth made of Saxon and the 
high-priced wools. 

The next article of import is Silk. The averages are as follows 



592 MR. HUSKISSON'S EXPOSITION OF THE 

—Raw and waste, from 1816 to 1820, 1,444,000 lbs.— thrown 
ditto, 303,126 lbs.— from 1824 to 1828, Raw and waste, 3,437,432 
lbs.; — thrown, 447,504 lbs,; — the export of manufactured silk 
goods has varied very little, upon a comparison of these two 
periods. 

The importation of Flax is, for the first period, 368,371 cwt. ; 
— for the second, 830,421 cwt. I have not been able to obtain 
any satisfactory information as to the quantity of Linen Cloth 
exported, but there can be no doubt of a greatly increased con- 
sumption at home. 

Hides, in the first period, imported, 679,996; — re-exported, 
221,200; retained for home use, 458,796; — ^in the second period, 
imported, 1,873,314; — re-exported, 211,448 ; — retained for home 
use, 1,661,866. 

The next articles are Tallow and Palm Oil, for the manufac- 
ture of candles and soap. Imported in the first period, of tallow, 
545,540 cwt. — palm oil, 34,910 cwt. — soap exported, official 
valuation, 116,037/.; — candles exported, weight, 4,931,597 lbs. : 
second period, tallow imported, 946,760 cwt. — palm oil, 95,942 
cwt. — soap exported, official value, 183,849/.; candles exported, 
weight, 7,818,718 lbs. 

The last article which I shall mention is that of fir Timber ; 
the annual average import of the first period was 289,379 loads : 
— in the second, for four years, ending 1827 (I have not been 
able to procure the return for 1828), 541,654 loads. 

There remains, however, one other branch of our national 
wealth and industry, to which I must advert before I quit this 
part of the subject. From its importance, both in a commercial 
and political point of view, I could not pass it over, even if it had 
been omitted by the honourable members who have preceded me 
in this debate. I allude, Sir, to our Shipping, which is stated to 
be fast verging to decay and ruin. If it had been asserted, that 
the profits of the Ship-Owner were very greatly diminished, as 
compared to the period of war, and that they were small, even 
when calculated upon the present reduced value of the ship, I 
certainly should not deny the position. I regret that the returns 
of capital in this, as in other branches of productive industry, are 
less than I could wish them to be ; but when the interest of money 
and the profits of stock are generally low, it would be vain to 
expect that the capital employed in Shipping should form an ex- 
ception. Indeed, from circumstances peculiar to the shipping 
interest, it was likely to suffer a greater revulsion than any other 
from the restoration of peace. 

At the close of the war, our shipping had engrossed the naviga- 
tion of other countries ; and near one sixth of the tonnage of our 
merchant ships was employed in the public service as transports. 



STATE OF THE COUNTRY. 593 

The commerce and navigation of other nations are now returned 
to their usual course in peace, and nine-tenths of our transports 
have been discharged from the pubHc service. By the Returns, 
which were laid before the House of Commons in the course of 
last session, it would appear, that, in the year 181(3, we had 
25,864 registered vessels, measuring 2,783,940 tons; — and that 
in 1828, the number of registered vessels was only 24,095, 
measuring 2,508,191 tons. This diminution has been commented 
upon, as showing conclusively the gradual and melancholy decline 
of the Shipping Interest. It is, perhaps, scarcely worth while to 
observe, tliat by the same Return the tonnage appears to have 
been reduced, so early as 1823, to 2,506,760 tons; that in 1827, 
it is stated at 2,460,500 tons; — being in the first of these two 
years, a trifle, and in the second 48,000 tons less than in the year 
1828. But it is more material to state, that in the year 1816, the 
amount of tonnage was swelled by returning many ships which 
had long ceased to exist, and that at present the Returns are 
accurately made. 

There is another parliamentary paper, however, which was 
also furnished last session, and which, if properly considered, in 
conjunction with that to which I have now referred, will throw 
great and very satisfactory light upon this subject. It is the 
paper which exhibits the number and tonnage of British vessels, 
entered inwards and cleared outwards, in our trade with all 
foreign parts, for the same period as the former paper, namely, 
from 1814 to 1828, both inclusive. We have already seen that 
in 1816 the total tonnage of our registered shipping was 2,783,940: 
now, in "'that year, the total tonnage entered inwards from all 
foreign parts was 1,415,723 — cleared outwards to all foreign 
parts, 1,340,277 tons — making together 2,756,000 — being a frac- 
tion more than one ton of shipping for ev^ery ton of goods enter- 
ed inwards and cleared outwards. In 1828 our whole tonnage, 
as I have already stated, was 2,508,191 ; but in that year the 
entries inward were 2,094,357 — and the clearances outwards 
2,096,397 — making together 4,190,754 tons, being somewhat less 
than five-eighths of a ton of registered shipping to every ton of 
goods entered inwards and cleared outwards, and being, n)ore- 
over, a positive increase upon the entries and clearances of 1816, 
to the amount of 1,434,754 tons; — rather more than either of 
them separately amounted to in that year. I might further state, 
that the account of vessels entered inwards and cleared outwards 
for 1829 has been delivered this morning, and is as follows : — 
inwards 2,184,535 — outwards 2,063,179, making together 4,247,- 
714 tons, — an increase, as the House will perceive, upon the 
antecedent year. Now I need scarcely remark to the House, 
that the quantity of goods, carried to and fro between this coun- 
50* 3Z 



594 MR. HUSKISSON'S EXPOSITION OF THE 

try and all foreign parts, in British ships, within a given period, 
is the true measure of the degree of employment and activity of 
our commercial marine. If our ships had been navigated back- 
wards and forwards, at the same rate of movement in 1828 as 
in 1816, it would have required upwards of 4,200,000 tons to 
have executed the transference of goods, which, in 1828, was 
performed by 2,500,000 tons of registered shipping. — On the other 
hand, if the accelerated movement of 1828 had prevailed in 1816, 
the transference of goods which, in that year, required 2,783,940 
tons, might have been accomplished by about 1,700,000 tons of 
registered shipping. If gentlemen think this change a misfortune, 
nothing can be more easy than to rectify it. We have only to 
restore the vexatious and contradictory laws, partly fiscal, partly- 
protective, as they were called, partly commercial, which threw 
impediments and delays in the way of our commerce and naviga- 
tion. We have only to take care that ships should not load and 
unload, make their entries, and obtain their clearances, with the 
present ease and dispatch. We have only to restore in our Cus- 
tom-Houses the regulations which harassed the ship-owner and 
the merchant, and to provide that the convenience and expedition, 
now so conspicuous in our commercial docks, should be so check- 
ed, and encumbered with dilatory forms and useless interference, 
as to bring us back to the more sober pace of our former system. 
This is a task which I can scarcely be called upon to undertake ; 
let those who arraign these improvements as ruinous.innovations, 
propose their repeal, and thus bring the two systems to a fair 
issue. 

But, before they attempt to effect their purpose, let them calcu- 
late the results to the Shipping Interest. In trade, the economy 
of time will always be found to be the economy of money. Every 
restraint is an increased expenditure of the one or the other. It 
adds, in more ways than one, to the charge at which the raw 
material can be delivered to our manufacturers, and the manufac- 
tured article conveyed to the foreign market. It operates as a 
premium in favour of rival manufactures, and as a tax upon our 
own. From what fund is that premium to be drawn, and that 
tax paid, except from the profits of the manufacturer's capita], 
and the wages of the labourer whom he employs ? For, as was 
well observed by the gallant member for Windsor, the price in 
the foreign market, be it what it may, must determine the price 
in our own market. If we are beaten in this race of competi- 
tion, we shall want fewer carriers to eflect the interchange of the 
products of our industry, against the raw materials of other coun- 
tries. And how is the Shipping Interest to be benefited by the 
curtailment of our foreign trade ? 

The truth is, that, under all the difficulties with which our 



STATE OF THE COUNTRY. 595 

general industry, including our shipping, has had to contend, since 
the restoration of peace — diificulties growing out of the enor-- 
mous expenditure of war — the necessary restoration of our cur- 
rency — and the active rivalry of other nations — nothing but a 
timely relaxation of our restrictive and expensive system, would 
have enabled us to bear up against the complicated disadvantages 
of our situation. That relaxation, so far as it has gone — and it 
ought to go further — has been gradually introduced, with due re- 
gard to the interests and arrangements which had grown up 
under a different system. But for the intervention of so many 
years of war, and of a war so peculiar in its character, these 
improvements would have been introduced, not only at an earlier 
period, but with less of friction and embarrassment in carrying 
them into effect. For I can take upon myself to affirm, from 
personal knowledge of Mr. Pitt's sentiments and views, that there 
was nothing which he more regretted, in the derangement of 
war, than the interruption which it gave to the improvement of 
our commercial policy, — an improvement, which he looked to in 
the temperate and- cautious liberation of trade and industry, from 
all unnecessary shackles and impediments. 

These arguments. Sir, may have little weight with that select 
class, who claim to be, exclusively, our practical guides in politi- 
cal economy. With them, foreign commerce is a m.atter almost 
of indiflerence : according to them, England can be great, happy, 
and flourishing, within herself Of what England they are speak- 
ing, I know^ not; certainly not of this countiy, as it now exists. 
The raw^ materials of every great branch of our industry 
(mineral wealth excepted) are derived, either M'holly, or in great 
part, from foreign soils. Cotton, — which gives employment to 
perhaps two millions of people — wholly. Silk, which employs 
about 500,000, — wholly. Wool, in great proportion. — Hemp and 
Flax, in a proportion still greater. — Fir Timber for all building 
purposes, nearly the whole. — Dyeing Drugs, the same. — I say 
nothing of luxuries, such as wine, &c. But, looking only to the 
articles which I have enumerated, I would ask — are gentlemen 
prepared to dispense with the comforts which the use of them 
here affords to our population? And if they are, are they still 
further prepared to tell us how that population could be maintain- 
ed, if the conversion of these raw materials did not give employ- 
ment to their industry? With what but that manufactured indus- 
try can we purchase them from other countries ? Have we any 
superfluous raw materials of our own, with which to make the 
purchase? Where is the spare corn, or the spare produce of our 
soil, which can be sent abroad for this purpose? No, Sir, of 
these productions we do not grow enough for our own wants. 
Our population, then, so far as it is employed in working up the 



590 MR. HUSKISSON'S EXPOSITION OF THE 

raw materials of other countries, must find in its own industry 
tiie means of procuring those raw materials. Without them, that 
industry must cease ; that ])opulation (it amounts to millions) 
must perish; and then indeed, England — but not England great, 
happy, and flourishing — England, reduced to its former insignifi- 
cance and barbarism — may disregard foreign trade. 

If, then, relief is not to be looked for by undoing, but rather by 
persevering in and extending, our present system of commercial 
policy; our next inquiry must be, how far that relief is attainable 
by a revision of the Finances of the country. Within the limits 
of public faith, the amount of our taxation is under our control ; 
and in respect to the mode in which it is assessed, distributed, 
and raised, the whole public revenue may be considered as liable 
to whatever alterations the wisdom of Parliament may find expe- 
dient. 

First, then, with respect to its positive amount, under the 
altered circumstances of the country, since the restoration of 
peace. I had occasion to state my opinion on this subject to the 
Committee upon Agricultural Distress in 1821, and as it is record- 
ed in their Report, I beg leave very shortly to refer to it. It is 
as follows : — 

" Your Committee cannot disguise from themselves, that the 
weight of the public burthens of the country, their nominal amount 
remaining the same, must be more severely felt, in proportion as 
the money incomes derived from trading, farming, and manufac- 
turing capital and industry are diminished. No exertion, there- 
fore, should be omitted to endeavour to reduce those burthens, as 
nearly as circumstances will permit, in the degree in which such 
incomes have been I'educed : for, in considering this subject, it is 
important to bear in mind, that the general amount and real 
pressure of taxation have been positively increased in the propor- 
tion of the improved value of our currency." 

I still retain that opinion ; indeed, every thing which has since 
occurred has only tended to confirm it. The course at which it 
points is obvious. It is that which, I willingly admit, is now fol- 
lowed by his Majesty's Government. Credit is due to them for 
the retrenchments, certainly not inconsiderable, which they have 
already made, as well as for the new checks which they have 
established, and the further ones which they contemplate, for re- 
pressing that tendency to the growth of expenditure, which con- 
stantly prevails in every department of the public service. A 
tendency which, as it pervades all branches of expenditure, re- 
quires to be steadily watched, and kept within bounds — of late 
years it appears to have been most vivacious, if I may use the 
expression, in that branch which is familiarly called the Dead 
Weight. 



STATE OF THE COUNTRY. 597 

After all the details and explanations upon tliis subject, which I 
have heard with satisfaction from the ( 'hancellor of the Exchequer, 
I remain of opinion, that the proposed regulations ought, in some 
instances, to be drawn somewhat tighter, and that retrenchment 
may be carried considerably further. The Government has once 
gone over the wide field of expenditure, but what they have cut 
down is not adequate to the wants and expectations of the coun- 
try. Let them repeat the operation, and they will find that more 
than gleanings are left behind. In the collection and manage- 
ment of the revenue, it was admitted by the Chancellor of the 
Exchequer, there is still room for reduction and reform. The 
diplomatic and consular establishment may be pared down with- 
out detriment to the public service. The door of admission to 
half pay, retired allowances, and superannuations of every sort, 
must be further straitened and narrowed. A careful revision 
of the Colonial Establishments will afibrd a considerable saving. 
The expenses incurred on the coast of Africa ought, on every 
consideration, to be greatly diminished. The laxity of control 
over the appropriation of the revenue arising from Crow^n Lands 
calls for revision. This branch of the revenue, as much as the 
Customs or Excise, constitutes a part of the consolidated fund, 
subject to the expenses of management. Under this head of 
Management it may be proper to include the expense of the main- 
taining, repairing, and keeping up that part of the Crown Estate, 
which is expressly reserved for the recreation or state of the 
monarch, such as parks, lodges, &c. ; but as in the Civil List, so 
in this instance, a specific annual sum ought to be allotted for 
that purpose ; not to be exceeded without an application to, and 
an express vote of, the House of Commons. 

There are also the savings which may, I hope, be effected in 
the great heads of our expense, the military and naval establish- 
ments of the country. I have made no objections to the estimates 
for the Army and Navy this year. In fixing the numbers, the 
Government, acting upon their information and responsibility, 
have a right to expect some degree of confidence from the House ; 
especially if, from circumstances of notoriety, it should appear 
that, in the pending concerns of the world, some matters remain 
to be adjusted, and that every thing is not in its right place. If, 
by the next year, the mists which surround us shall be dissipated, 
if the political horizon shall be, on every side, clear and bright, 
if Ireland shall continue — as I am confident it will — to improve 
in its internal tranquillity, and in good feelings towards this coun- 
try, I should, in the ensuing session, expect no inconsiderable re- 
duction in the amount of our public force. 

Whatever savings may be efllected in all these branches of ex- 
penditure, or in any other, they will add so much to our relief 



598 MR. HUSKISSON'S EXPOSITION OF THE 

But, when the whole of the charge over which we can exercise 
any immediate control, is not more than 11,000,000/., the further 
reduction which remains practicable, to be consistent with the 
public safety, and the efficiency of Government, cannot be very 
considerable. Indeed, I much doubt whether, if we are to retain 
a reasonable surplus of revenue, — I will not say upon the princi- 
ple of a sinking fund, but as the necessary guard and provision 
against the effect of those fluctuations to which our public income 
is liable, — any further absolute reduction of taxation can be anti- 
cipated, from the utmost amount of retrenchment that can be 
made, unless the produce of the remaining taxes should be very 
greatly increased, in consequence of the relief now to be given to 
the people. 

I will shortly state the grounds of this opinion. The Chancel- 
lor of the Exchequer estimates the surplus of the present year at 
about 2,600,000/. I will take for granted the data upon which 
this estimate was made. I hope my right honourable friend will 
not think that I am doing him a disservice, when I remark, that he 
has undei'-stated the extent of relief which he is about to give to 
the country. He estimates it at 3,400,000/.: now, the average 
net payment into the Exchequer from the duties about to be taken 
off, for a period of the last fiv^e years, was 3,737,000/. ; and as 
the barley crop failed in one of those years, 1827, I think it may 
be taken in round numbers at 3,750,000/., leaving, consequently, a 
deficiency upon the estimated surplus of this year of 1,150,000/. 
Now, if the reduction of the 4 per cents., taken at 700,000/., the 
new taxes proposed by my right honourable friend, estimated at 
400,000/., and the further savings to be made, should amount 
altogether to 2,000,000/., our surplus would be rather less than 
1,000,000/., being an allowance of about two per cent, upon our 
income, to meet all the incidents and casualties to which it is 
liable. 

Assuming, then, that absolute abatement of taxation cannot, 
for the present at least, be carried further, the question which I'e- 
mains for consideration (and I can assure the House that I have 
anxiously turned it in my own mind, in the interval since the 
Budget was made known to us) is, will the proposed remission 
be all that is requisite for the effectual and permanent relief of the 
country? I am sorry to say that I incline to think it will not. In 
the view which I take of our present difficulties, the main cause 
of them, in my opinion, as stated at the outset of what I have 
now addressed to the House, and which, that I may not be mis- 
understood, in substance I repeat, is this — that in the distribution 
of the annual wealth of the country, taking it according to the 
ordinary and admitted division into rent, profits of stock, and 
wages of labour, the two latter, from a compUcation of concur- 



STATE OF THE COUNTRY. 599 

rent circumstances, of which taxation is one, are now in the 
receipt of less than their just share. I may further stale, that 
such a condition of society cannot long be continued, without its 
laying the foundation of national impoverishment. There is a 
short passage in Adam Smith's " Wealth of Nations," which so 
forcibly points out the calamitous tendency of this condition of 
society, that I cannot forbear pressing it upon the serious atten- 
tion of the House. " To complain," he says, " of the liberal 
reward of labour, is to lament over the necessary eflect and cause 
of the greatest public prosperity. The condition of the labourer 
is hard in the stationary, and miserable in the declining state. 
The progressive state is in reality the cheerful and the hearty 
state to all the diflerent orders of society. The stationary is dull 
— the declining melancholy." 

If we are in danger of falling into this state of things, and if we 
cannot be adequately protected against the risk by any practical 
diminution in the positive amount of our burthens, may we not 
guard ourselves against it by some change in the principle and 
distribution of the remaining taxation. 

In approaching this part of the subject, I am aware that I am 
treading upon tender ground. I know that I shall not only meet 
with great difference of opinion, but that I shall expose myself, 
probably, to considerable clamour and obloquy. It is impossible 
to touch upon it without coming into collision with the interests 
(at least as the parties understand them) of many, and those, 
perhaps, the most powerful both in this House and in the country. 
But, Sir, when I am addressing you upon a subject of such deep 
importance, I feel myself bound by a sense of public duty, be the 
consequence to myself personally what it may, to state a strong 
doubt (I wish to put it no higher), whether we shall afford ade- 
quate relief, without removing a larger amount of those taxes 
which press directly upon income arising from capital engaged 
in industry, and upon the income of labour to which that capital 
gives employment; transferring, as far as may be indispensable, 
the burthen upon all that class of income which arises from capi- 
tal not so employed. 

Sir, my gallant friend, the member for Windsor, has called 
upon us to compare the habits of society, in the higher walks of 
life, with what they were fifty years ago. Like him, and w'ith 
him, I have lived long enough to bear testimony to the change 
which has taken place. Let any man comytare the metropolis 
now with what it was at that period ; not only its positive growth, 
but still more the extension of splendor in buildings, in furniture, 
in plate, in the habits of luxury, and in display of every descrip- 
tion. Having mentioned plate. Sir, I may remai'k, as a striking 
evidence of this change, the difference of the amount of the duty 



eOO MR. HUSKISSON'S EXPOSITION OF THE^. 

upon that one article, between the year 1804 and the last year. 
The rate of duty upon silver wrought plate in 1804 was Is. 3d., 
upon gold 16s. per ounce; it was aiterwards raised to Is. 6d. 
upon silver, and to 17s. upon gold. But what has been the in- 
crease in the net produce of the duty? It has risen from less than 
5,000/. in 1804, to upwards of 105,000/. in 1828; a rise of more 
than twenty-fold, notwithstanding the greatly diminished supply 
from the mines, and the consequent increasing value, of the 
precious metals. It maybe further remarked, that this augmented 
consumption shows how large a portion of gold and silver is an- 
nually diverted from the purposes of coin to those of ornament 
and luxury. 

Have the articles most necessary to the scanty comfort of the 
humble dwellings of the labouring classes been muUiplied in the 
same proportion? I am afraid that, in too many cases, an inverse 
ratio would rather be the correct answer. Look at the earnings 
and condition of that population which raises the produce of the 
soil, or from early dawn to midnight throws the shuttle for bare 
subsistence, and compare them with those of the artisans, who 
minister to all the various enjoyments and gratifications of wealth, 
in this great town. Contrast the hourly dealings for millions, at 
that great mart of money, the Stock Exchange, with the stinted 
transactions and falling-off of our country markets. In London 
the bankers, the moneyed men of all descriptions, complain of the 
glut of money. We hear of seven or eight millions deposited, 
for want of employment, in the Bank of England alone. Inge- 
nuity is incessantly at work in devising new and tempting specu- 
lations, to call forth these locked-up capitals, of which too large 
a portion has already been thrown away upon rash and gambling 
speculations, or placed at hazard upon the precarious security of 
foreign loans. In the country, you hear of nothing but the 
bewailings of industry, and the want of money, con^dence, and 
credit. The country banker, reluctant to make advances, and 
the prudent man, who is still solvent, cautious and tardy in ap- 
plying for them, because productive speculation, however carefully 
conducted, holds out too little prospect of gain to compensate for 
the risk of loss, with which, more or less, it must always be 
attended. It is notorious to all, who know what is passing in the 
different counties of the kingdom, that country banks, — in better 
times those salutary reservoirs for the alternate deposit and dis- 
tribution of circulating wealth, through all the ramifications of 
active industry — now send that wealth up to town, to be lent for 
short periods upon stock, and other floating securities upon the 
Stock Exchange. This system is, perhaps, safe for themselves, 
but, at best, of very doubtful benefit to the public ; affording, for 
aught I know, to a few individuals increased facilities for gigantic 



STATE OF THE COUNTRY. * 601 

speculations; swelling still further the already overgrown fortunes 
of some, but bringing misery and ruin upon others; and diverting 
the thoughts and aspirations of all who come within its vortex, 
from the sober and steady courses of their forefathers, to pursuits 
as little conducive, I believe, to individual happiness and moral 
worth, as they certainly are to the growth of wealth in the 
country; pursuits which, were they multiplied even an hundred- 
fold, could never add the value of one pepper-corn to our national 
resources; whilst all the classes, from whom alone wealth can 
really flow, are labouring under difficulties and complaining of 
distress. 

In considering the effects of our present taxation upon the 
productive industry of the country, we must constantly bear in 
mind the necessary consequences of a state of peace, and of a free 
competition of the industry of other countries with that of our own, 
in the general market of the world. These consequences, as it 
has been already so well stated in this debate, are, first, — that we 
cannot obtain for our commodities a better price than that at 
which, in this race of competition, the like commodities can be 
raised, produced, and brought to market by other countries ; and, 
secondly, — that the price at which we can sell abroad must de- 
termine the price in the home market. Now, Sir, let us follow 
out these admitted axioms in all their necessary and legitimate 
bearings and results. 

It will not be denied that a spirit of improvement, an anxious 
desire to promote industry, zeal for the diffusion of knowledge in 
all pursuits connected with mechanical and chemical science, and 
in the beneficial application of them to the useful purposes of life, 
are now the pervading feelings, not only of every people, but of 
nearly every government, in the civilized world. Neither can it 
be denied that, in several countries, a greater degree of freedom 
in their institutions, and a greater security for property, have, 
under the uninterrupted enjoyment of peace, promoted the growth 
of capital, and the other facilities which are necessary to manu- 
facturing and commercial enterprise. This is the rivalry, every 
day growing more formidable, with which our capital, and in- 
dustry, and skill, have to contend. If we meet it under some 
advantages, we have also great and growing disadvantages to 
encounter. Do not let us lose sight of the fearful consequences 
■which must ensue, if we are distanced in the race. The greatest 
of all follies on such an occasion, would be to shut our eyes to 
difficulties which, taken in time, we may, perhaps, overcome, but 
which, by procrastination, we cannot evade. For a long time we 
have been the greatest manufacturing and trading nation in the 
world. We export for sale abroad, in a manufactured state, more 
or less of almost every thing which we raise or produce. Of the 
51 4 A 



602 MR. HUSKISSON'S EXPOSITION OF THE 

raw materials of our soil the export is next to nothing. They 
are barely adequate, indeed I might say inadequate, to the sub- 
sistence of our population. Upon an average of years, we can- 
not do witlrout a supply of foreign corn ; and of cheese, butter, 
and other articles, we have a large annual importation. Our corn 
laws, however expedient to prevent other evils, in the present 
state of the country, are in themselves a burthen and a restraint 
upon its manufacturing and commercial industry. Whilst the 
products of that industry must descend to the level of the general 
market of the world, the producers, so far as food is concerned, 
are debarred from that level. If the price of subsistence, — that 
is, the price of those particular articles which we never export, 
and are frequently compelled to import — be materially dearer 
here than anywhere else, that dearness cannot be shifted to the 
articles which we do export. It must fall in the way of deduction, 
either upon the wages and comforts of the labourer, or upon the 
profits of those who afford him employment. 

Here, then, is one inevitable cause, constantly operating to keep 
alive a struggle between productive capital and productive labour, 
with a constant tendency to bring both to a lower level: — because 
the disadvantage, under which they have to contend, arising from 
a difference in the price of the necessaries of life, is increased in 
proportion as the progressive improvement of rival nations ap- 
proximates their manufacturing skill and industry more nearly to 
our own. Are not, then, the circumstances, which enhance the 
price of subsistence in this country, a strong reason why we 
should endeavour to lighten, as much as possible, other burthens 
which, by their direct operation, tend to aggravate this disad- 
vantage? See to what an extent your Excise and Customs prove 
that you do not sufficiently attend to this consideration ! Full 
three-fourths of your revenue are levied under these two heads; 
and by far the greatest proportion of that amount upon articles 
necessary, either for the subsistence, the clothing, or the humble 
comforts of the labourer; or of use in the fabrication of those 
articles to which his industry is devoted. Let any man look 
through the list of the Excise and Customs, even now that the 
beer and leather taxes are removed, and he will find in how great 
a degree this observation still applies. Candles, hops, licenses, 
malt, printed goods, soap, British spirits, tea, sugar, tobacco, 
rum, hemp, timber: here is an enumeration amounting to near 
30,000,000/. ; but the incidental burthen of which, in restraint, 
impediment, and vexatious interference, may well be estimated 
at 10,000,000/. more. 

These are the consequences of monopoly in some cases, as tea 
for instance, and of the charge of collection, regulation, draw- 
backs, and such like interference in others. They are, perhaps. 



STATE OF THE COUNTRY. 603 

unavoidable under the complication of a system, which can only 
guard against fraud and evasion in the collection of the revenue, 
by impeding the development of industry, and sacrificing the im- 
provements of science. 

It is a common remark, that the rich man does not require 
more food than his poorer neighbour; the difference between 
them must be in the quality. But, in many of the articles which 
I have enumerated, the consumption of the rich is less than that 
of the poor man. In others,, his consumption may be greater, but 
in an amount altogether disproportioned to their relative means. 
The proportion, however, in this respect, is not so much the 
question now% as the different mode in which this system of taxa- 
tion falls upon realized wealth, and upon productive industry. 
Every man's observation must satisfy him of the general truth of 
these remarks. It can scarcely be necessary that I should illus- 
trate them in detail. 

In proportion as prices and w^ages have fellen, has this class 
of taxes become not only more burthensome, but more vexatious, 
and more liable to evasion. Take for instance Soap : the duty 
during the war might be about 70 per cent, upon the raw ma- 
terials; it is now from 120 to 140 per cent. If wages have fallen 
in the same proportion, how much heavier does this tax now 
press upon the labourer, and how much greater must be the 
temptation to resort to any means by which the duty may be 
avoided? If we advert to Sugar, we shall find that the duty, 
which was formerly one-half of, now exceeds the selling price. 
Looking to this article, upon which there has been no reduction 
of duty since the war, and considering the severe and general 
distress in which all West-India interests are involved, I cannot 
but regret that a reduction of the sugar duty seems now to be 
indefinitely postponed. As a measure of relief it is urgent. I 
still retain the opinion, which I have more than once pressed 
upon his Majesty's Government, that this relief might be given, 
w^ithout any great or permanent sacrifice of revenue. 

It is not to sugar only that this observation would apply. A 
general revision would point out many other articles, but the sub- 
ject is one too extensive and too minute for the present occasion. 
The more general considerations, to which I now claim the at- 
tention of the House, are these : first, that no other country in 
Europe has so large a proportion of its taxation bearing directly 
U|)on the incomes of labour and productive capital: — secondly, 
that in no other country, of the same extent, I think I might say 
in none of five times the extent of this kingdom, is there so large 
a mass of income, belonging to those classes who do not directly 
employ it in bringing forth the produce of labour: — thirdly, that 
no other country has so large a proportion of its taxation mort- 



604 MR. HUSKISSON'S EXPOSITION OF THE 

gaged ; — in proportion to the amount of that mortgage are we 
interested in any measure which, without injustice to the mort- 
gagee, would tend to lessen the absolute burthen of the mortgage: 
— fourthly, that from no other country in the world does so large 
a proportion of the class not engaged in production (including 
many of the wealthy) spend their incomes in foreign parts. I 
know I may be told, that, by taxing that income, you run the risk 
of driving them to withdraw their capital altogether. My answer 
is, first, that ninety-nine out of every hundred of these absentees 
have no such command over the source of their income ; — second- 
ly, that the danger is now of another and more alarming descrip- 
tion, — that of the productive capitals of this country being trans- 
ferred to other countries, where they would be secure of a more 
profitable return. The relief of industry is the remedy against 
that danger. 

One of the objections made to any direct tax upon income, 
even limited, as I have described, to capital not directly employ- 
ed in the pursuits of industry, is, that it may be very fit as a war 
measure, but that it is not suited to a state of peace. My answer 
is, that this proposition is too general. What may be very well 
adapted to a state of peace or war under given circumstances, 
niay become inexpedient when the bearing of those circumstan- 
ces is altogether changed. In war, the wages of labour and the 
profits of capital may be high. In peace, they may be greatly 
depressed., In the former supposition, taxes bearing upon indus- 
try will be more lightly felt; in the latter, their pressure will be 
very severe ; and, if not alleviated, will daily become more so, 
by exhausting the very springs of that industry from which they 
are derived. Let gentlemen seiiously weigh in their own minds, 
whether this be not the risk against which it is most earnest to 
provide. 

I have already shown, upon higher authority than my own — 
that of the Chancellor of the Exchequer — that the amount remit- 
ted by a change in our taxation, would be a very inadequate 
measure of the real saving, and contingent relief, to industry ; 
whilst, on the other hand, the produce of the tax to be substituted 
would be commensurate with what it might subtract from the in- 
comes of the classes, by which it would be paid. The landlord, 
the fundholder, the mortgagee, the annuitant of every description, 
would moreover be directly benefi'ted, to the extent of his con- 
sumption of the articles upon which the present taxes might be 
reduced or abolished. Each would be ?wc?»ec//// benefited, by the 
stimulus and additional ease which would be given to the indus- 
trious classes. Take, for instance, the land-owner. Can any 
man doubt, that in proportion to the relief aflbrded, would be the 
means and desire of the industrious classes to consume more of 



STATE OF THE COUNTRY. G05 

all the productions of the soil, which constitute their habitual 
comforts and luxuries : — more meat, — more malt, — more cheese, 
— more butter, — and more of all the other articles which cannot 
be said to be of absolute and primary necessity? Can any man 
doubt, that the consumption of these articles is now checked, if 
not actually diminished, by the straitened circumstances of our 
labouring population? Should their condition become still harder, 
— and, in order to maintain our competition in the foreign market, 
I fear that, without the relief which I have suggested it must, — 
is it not obvious that the consumption of these articles, and, with 
the consumption the price, must decline ? 

Should this be the unfortunate career in which we are proceed- 
ing, we may have gleams of sunshine, but their transient bright- 
ness will not be sufficient to disperse the thickening gloom which 
will be gathering round us, and in which all interests and all 
classes will be finally enveloped. For the contentment of the 
poor man, — for the comfort of the middling classes, — for the 
enjoyment of the rich, — for the security of all, it becomes the 
paramount duty of those, to whom the welfare and happiness of 
the country are committed, well to probe the sources of our pre- 
sent difficulties; and if they are satisfied that they are produced 
in any considerable degree by the causes to which I have advert- 
ed, not to be tardy or timid in applying a remedy. 

If I have dwelt upon these subjects at greater length than I 
had intended, I have done so because I have thought it my duty, 
as an unconnected member of Parliament, not to shrink from 
stating my views respecting them. The position of a minister in 
this House is very diflerent from that of an individual. I know 
how difficult a thing it might be for Government, even if they 
concur in my views, to carry them into effect ; and I am fully 
aware of all the inconvenience which would arise from their at 
all hinting at that concurrence, unless they were prepared to act 
upon it. All I can say is, that ours is a choice of difficulties, and 
that the course which I have suggested would, I sincerely believe, 
be most beneficial to the country. If these views are not enter- 
tained by others in this House, or sanctioned by public opinion 
out of doors, it would be vain to expect that they should lead, at 
present, to any practical result. But if, at any future day, a sense 
of the public interest should induce his Majesty's Government to 
act upon them, I shall be prepared to give my most cordial assis- 
tance and support, towards overcoming the various difficulties, 
which I am fully sensible must arise in carrying those views into 
effect, and towards conciliating the feelings of all who might con- 
tinue adv-erse to their adoption. 

In the course of this debate, allusion has frequently been made 
to possible improvements in the Banking System, as one means 
51* 



606 MR. HUSKISSON'S EXPOSITION OF THE 

of affording some relief to the country ; and I understood my 
right honourable friend, the President of the Board of Trade, to 
say, that he expected much benefit from a revision of the system 
of Country Banks, and from giving publicity to their proceedings. 
I am friendly to publicity. But if it be required from banking 
establishments in the country, I trust that the same rule will be 
applied to the Bank of the State — the Bank of England. Had 
that system of publicity, of which my right honourable friend is 
the advocate, prevailed between 1824 and 1826, it would, in my 
opinion, have guarded us from the risk of such a calamity as that 
which was upon the point of taking place, at a period of pro- 
found peace, towards the close of the year 1825, 

Far be it from me, in making this observation, to cast any re- 
flection upon the Directors of the Bank of England. I know that 
they are zealous and disinterested in the management of the great 
trust reposed in them. But it is their duty, in that management, 
to look to the interests of the body of proprietors whom they 
represent. It is the duty of this House, on the other hand, if they 
think fit to grant a monopoly, to surround and fence it with such 
regulations, as may prevent the public interests from being pre- 
judiced, by being placed in collision with the interests of those, 
upon whom the monopoly is conferred. 

The first of all our cares, in revising the Banking system of 
the country, must be to satisfy ourselves that nothing is omitted, 
in the way of precaution, which may tend to secure the public 
against a possible recurrence of that greatest of all calamities, 
another suspension of cash payments. I cannot pass over even 
this opportunity of repeating my doubts, whether the affairs of 
the Bank are conducted with a sufficient regard to this paramount 
object. With their original capital all locked up upon loan to 
Government, they have, at the same time, nearly the whole of 
their outstanding credit resting upon securities, equally unavail- 
able. The sound system of banking, on the contrary, would ap- 
pear to require, that the amount of their issues should be more 
immediately within their command, as the only certain protec- 
tion, — for themselves, against those emergencies that will occur, 
even in time of peace, — for the public, against a recurrence of 
the dreadful effects of such a panic as that of 1825. 

There is no saying how soon, should trade revive with more 
than its usual activity, we may again witness another season of 
excitement, and extravagant speculation. Should an unfavour- 
able state of the foreign exchanges be the consequence, their 
turning against us would, for a time, rather encourage than re- 
press that spirit of speculation. The salutary check, under such 
a contingency, can only be applied by the prudence of the Bank 
of England. But how is that check to be called into action, with- 



STATE OF THE COUNTRY. 607 

out the risk of panic, if both the capital and credit of the Bank 
are locked up in dead weight, in exchequer bills, in mortgages 
upon land, in an advance to the rebuilding of London Bridge '( — 
all of them, I admit, assets most perfectly solid and secure, but 
all of that inconvertible description, upon which no banking 
establishment, I think, having the whole of its outstanding engage- 
ments payable upon demand, ought to rest so large a portion of 
its liabilities. This, however, is a fit subject for a separate in- 
vestigation, and into which, therefore, I will not go more at large 
on the present occasion. 

I have detained the House, I am aware, longer than any mem- 
ber, having no official duties to discharge, can be justified in 
claiming their attention. My apology must be, in part, that I 
have had to defend measures, for which I am more immediately 
responsible, as having brought them forward when I was in 
office; and, partly, that I have thought this a fit occasion for 
stating the views which I entertain of the present condition of 
the country. I cordially thank the House for the indulgence with 
which they have heard me upon these important topics. 

After all — do what we will, say what we may — the immense 
sacrifices and unparalleled exertions of the last long war must 
tell, in abridging the comforts, and adding to the difficulties, of 
the present generation. Fifteen years have now elapsed since 
that war was brought to a glorious termination. From its com- 
mencement I have been more or less in public life. In the course 
of it, there is scarcely a conceivable trial of fortitude to which 
the country, and those who administered its afiairs, were not 
exposed. Mutiny in our fleets, — civil war in Ireland, — the stop- 
page of the Bank, — defection of our allies, — the overthrow and 
subjugation of all the great powers of Europe by the enemy to 
which we were opposed, — our commerce placed under an inter- 
dict in every part of the civilized world, — these are some of the 
evils of which, having witnessed the first overwhelming shock, I 
shall retain through life a vivid recollection. But, amid all the 
scenes of alarm and despondency, I might almost say despair, 
occasioned by this succession of calamities, I tax my memory in 
vain for one single act of weakness or dishonour, of spoliation or 
bad faith. Never did such expedients suggest thcmseh^es to those 
great and firm minds that then presided over the destinies of the 
country. If in vain I tax my memor}^ for one act of that de- 
scription, upon which any man, the most envious of my country's 
fame, can put his finger and say, " this is a blot in your annals," 
give me leave to add, that should you, in an evil hour, venture to 
debase your currency, you will commit an act of fraud at which 
that finger of scorn will point for ever after, as the hour of your 
shame and humiliation; and that the period will not then be dis- 



608 EXPOSITION OF THE STATE OF THE COUNTRY. 

tant, in which you will deeply repent, but repent too late, the irre- 
trievable consequer^ces of so ruinous a proceeding. 

For myself, I once more enter my protest against such an in- 
fringement of the national faith. I cannot vote either in support 
of the original motion, or of the amendment. Taken abstracted- 
ly, they both embrace too wide a field for any useful enquiry. 
But my greater objection is, that I cannot separate the wish for 
enquiry, from the grounds upon which that wish stands recom- 
mended to the House, by almost every member who has sup- 
ported it. Again, to the form of the enquiry, as recommended 
in the original motion, I have an insuperable objection. In the 
mode recommended by the amendment I might have concurred, 
had it been brought forward upon different grounds, and been 
more limited in its objects. From enquiries of this latter nature 
I expect much benefit ; and his Majesty's Government do not 
appear to be adverse to them. They have already consented to 
grant a committee to enquire into the condition of the poor in 
Ireland. The Chancellor of the Exchequer has giv^en notice of 
his intention to bring in a Bill to regulate the Dead Weight sys- 
tem ; and has said, that he shall have no objection to refer that 
Bill, together with the whole subject, to a committee up stairs. 
My honourable friend, the member for Dover, has a notice on 
the order book, for a select committee to investigate the effect of 
the present system of our Taxation, upon the productive classes 
of the country. Whether the proposed committee will be grant- 
ed or not, I cannot tell ; but this I know, that whenever my hon- 
ourable friend shall bring forward his motion, he shall have my 
warmest support. We have already a committee sitting to en- 
quire into the affairs of the East-India Company, and into their 
monopoly of the trade with China. In like manner, I hope we 
shall have a committee to enquire into the Banking System of 
the country, in connection with the renewal of the charter of the 
Bank of England. It is by enquiries thus limited to specific 
objects, that we shall arrive at more satisfactory results, than by 
going into a committee, purporting to be for an enquiry into the 
causes of distress generally, — a species of enquiry which, in my 
judgment, could not possibly lead to any good, but which, in the 
expectation of its promoters, might lead to what I consider the 
greatest possible evil, — the unsettling and disturbing the present 
monetary system of the country. 



( 609 ) 



JEWS RELIEF BILL. 

MAY 17th, 1830. 

On the 4th of May, Mr. Huskisson presented a petition from the Bankers, 
Merchants, and other inhabitants of Liverpool, praying that the Bill brought 
in by Mr. Robert Grant, for the relief of persons of the Jewish persuasion 
from all civil disabilities, might pass into a law. On the 17th, the order of 
the day for the second reading was opposed by General Gascoyne, who 
moved "that it be read a second time that day si.x months." After the 
amendment had been supported by Lord Belgrave, the Earl of Darlington, 
Mr. Trant, and Mr. George Bankes ; and the original motion by Mr. Mild- 
may, Sir Edward Dering, Sir Robert Wilson, Mr. O'Connell, and Lord John 
Russell, 

Mr. Huskisson said: — Knowing, Sir, the ability and the power 
of argument possessed by my honourable friend who has intro- 
duced this subject to the notice of the House, and believing that 
his endeavour would be crowned with success, I came down 
with the intention of giving a silent vote in support of the Bill ; 
and I should not have broken through that resolution, had it not 
been for what has fallen from my gallant colleague, and from a 
noble lord, in reference to a petition which I had the honour of 
presenting, on a former evening, from the town of Liverpool, in 
favour of this bill. On that occasion, my gallant colleague ad- 
mitted, that it was both numerously and respectably signed ; but 
he now says, that some of the signatures to it were obtained 
through the great influence possessed by the Jews in Liverpool ; 
and the noble lord who has adverted to the petition, seems to 
think, that the Jews can dispose of the feelings of the trading 
classes of society as they please. Now, Sir, I happen to know 
something of Liverpool, and I really believe there is scarcely a 
part of the country in which the Jews possess less influence. 
They are principally retail traders, and are therefore not likely 
to possess great influence in that town. The sentiments contain- 
ed in the petition are the genuine opinion of the individuals who 
signed it, and they should be taken as the genuine sentiments of 
the Christians of Liverpool, in favour of the great principle, as- 
serted by the House in the instance of the Catholics and of the 
Dissenters. My gallant friend has, indeed, confessed, that the 
Roman Catholics were entitled to some favour, because their 
4B ■ 



610 JEWS RELIEF BILL. 

religion was an ancient one. But if the Roman Catholics have 
any claim, on account of the antiquity of their faith, he will not 
surely consider the Jews less entitled to favour on the same score. 
And when my gallant friend tells us, that our ancestors were 
opposed to all innovation, he seems to have forgotten, that they 
brought about the Reformation, which changed the religion of 
the country — that they effected a Revolution, which altered the 
succession to the throne — and that they expelled a King, because 
he endeavoured to destroy the liberties of the country. 

With regard to what has fallen from the noble lord, respecting 
my opposition to the bill for the repeal of the Corporation and 
Test Acts, I am sure that every gentleman who heard me upon 
that occasion will bear me out in the statement, that I did not 
oppose it from any desire to exclude the Dissenters, but because 
I was apprehensive that partial concession might be injurious to 
the success of the great and general measure of Catholic eman- 
cipation, which was then about to be brought forward, and has 
since been happily accomplished. 

I am ready to admit, that the present question is not one of 
paramount importance, or of absolute necessity: but upon prin- 
ciple, the concession ought to be made ; and as a uniform sup- 
porter of the claims of the Catholics, I cannot refuse my assent 
to it. The arguments which I have heard this night against the 
emancipation of the Jews, are precisely the same, mutatis mutan- 
dis, as those which, for the last thirty years, I have been in the 
habit of hearing urged against the emancipation of the Catholics. 
But, while I admit that no such over-ruling necessity is apparent 
in this case, I maintain that the last blot of this kind ought to be 
removed from the statute-book. When this measure shall have 
passed, the great principle of general toleration will be completed, 
and the Jews in this country will be placed on the same footing 
as those in France and the Netherlands. 

The honourable member for Wexford, who has spoken so well 
that I hope to hear him often, admitted the propriety of admitting 
the Jews to all other stations, civil and military; but he would 
exclude them from seats in Parliament. Now this, Sir, is a sort 
of liberality which I cannot understand. The honourable mem- 
ber would give them the power of the sword, and the power of 
instructing youth; but he would make them, by his exclusion, 
the enemy of that legislature, which it is necessary for the safety 
of the state that youth should be taught to respect, and soldiers 
implicitly to obey. 

Something has been said as to the manner in which my hon- 
ourable friend has framed his measure. And it is true, that it 
purports to be a relief to the Jews from all their disabilities, and 
to put them on the same footing with the Protestant Dissenters 



JEWS RELIEF BILL. 611 

and the Roman Catholics. But does it follow, that if the House 
shall go into a committee, it must necessarily adopt all that has 
been proposed by my honourable friend ( For myself, I am pre- 
pared to support my honourable friend's views to their full extent. 
If, however, the House should go into the committee, and a pro- 
viso be introduced, not to allow the Jews the privilege of admis- 
sion into Parliament, however undesirable, and uncalled for, that 
proviso might, in my opinion, be, yet still I am not one of those 
who would think that the bill ought not to be persevered in, on 
account of such an objection. Honourable gentlemen may ask, 
why should I agree to this? But I would ask them, do they 
recollect the year 1812, when a bill was brought in to grant the 
Roman Catholics all that they have since obtained ? That bill 
was read a first and a second time. It went to a committee, and 
an amendment was then agreed to, to exclude them from sitting 
in Parliament, and on that amendment having been carried, the 
bill was, as I thought, very unwisely withdrawn. The better 
course would have been, for the friends of the measure, to have 
taken what they could have obtained. If a proviso to the same 
effect should be now introduced, I should deprecate it, and think 
it unwise ; but, considering this bill as a measure of justice, and 
of relief to all the parties who are suffering from having their 
rights withheld, I would still proceed to pass it. 

I therefore trust, Sir, that the bill will be allowed to be read a 
second time. It is most certain, that it has attracted consider- 
able notice ; and honourable gentlemen have been told, that they 
will rue the support they are giving it, when they return to their 
constituents ; but I will, nevertheless, support it, as I did the mea- 
sure of Catholic emancipation, without any other consideration 
than that which guided my decision upon that question. Again, 
then, I will express a hope that the bill will pass, and form the 
consummation of that course of liberality, which will immortalize 
the present Parliament. 

The house divided : For the second reading, 165. Against it, 228. 



) 



i' 

J 



( 613 ) 



MONUMENT TO MR. WATT. 

MR. HUSKISSON'S SPEECH AT THE PUBLIC MEETING, HELD AT 
FREEMASON'S HALL, ON THE 18th JUNE, 1824, FOR ERECTING A 
MONUMENT TO THE LATE JAMES WATT; THE EARL OF LIVER- 
POOL IN THE CHAIR. 

Mr. HusKissoN said : — 

My Lord : — A task has been assigned to me at this meeting, 
which, I am fully aware, would have been far more ably and suc- 
cessfully executed by some one of those who have done me the 
honour to put into my hands the resolution with which I shall con- 
clude. Several of those gentlemen had an advantage, which I 
cannot boast, that of having been personally acquainted with the 
late Mr. Watt, of having enjoyed his confidence and friendship, 
and of having observed, more nearly than myself, the appHcation 
and progress of those great discoveries, and scientific inventions, 
by which he has so much benefited his country and the world. 

But, Gentlemen, however ill qualified I may be fully to appre- 
ciate the merits of Mr. Watt — however inadequate I feel myself 
to do justice to my own sentiments in this respect — I cannot but 
be gratified that I have a public opportunity to bear my humble 
acknowledgment of gratitude for his services, and of respect for 
his memory. 

Gentlemen : — whether, abstracting ourselves for a moment from 
all considerations <5f country, we look as men to the benefits 
which Mr. Watt's inventions have imparted, and are still impart- 
ing, to the whole race of man ; or whether, as members of that 
great and powerful community of which he was a member, we 
confine ourselves to contemplate the special benefits which he con- 
ferred upon this country, — his great discoveries must stand equally 
entitled to our highest admiration. As Englishmen, we cannot 
behold the results produced by his genius, without a lively sense 
of joy that we belong to the same country to which he belonged, 
and without an individual feeling of gratitude that he lived at a 
time which allows us all to participate in the benefits which he 
was the selected instrument, under Providence, of introducing 
among mankind. 

If, Gentlemen, there be any individual who can doubt whether 
Mr. Watt be entitled to rank in the first class of the benefactors 
of mankind, that individual, let him belong to wliat station of 
society he may, has, I think, not justly estimated the influence of 
improvements in physical and chemical science upon the moral 
condition of societv. I apprehend no man can doubt the benefi- 
52 



614 MONUMENT TO MR. WATT. 

cial effect of that influence, more or less, in all civilized countries. 
But, in my view of the subject, there is no portion of the globe, 
however remote, where the name and flag of England are known, 
where commerce has carried her sails, and begun to introduce 
the arts of civilization, which does not derive some advantage 
from Mr. Watt's discoveries. The economy and abridgment of 
labour, the perfection and rapidity of manufacture, the cheap and 
almost indefinite multiplication of every article which suits the 
luxury, the convenience, or the wants of mankind, are all so many 
means of creating, in men even but little advanced from the 
savage state, a taste for improvement ; of raising in their bosoms 
a feeling of new wants and new desires ; of showing them the 
possibility of satisfying those wants and those desires; and there- 
by of calling into action the most powerful stimulant, and steady 
motive, to advancement in the scale of the civilized world. Are 
not the remote islands of the Pacific Ocean become a happy 
proof of the truth of this position ? The same race which, less 
than half a century ago, murdered and devoured our intrepid but 
unfortunate navigator, Captain Cook, have, within that short 
period, become acquainted with many of the comforts of life, and 
made a greater progress, perhaps, towards improvement, than 
remains for them to make, in order to entitle themselves to be 
admitted into the rank of civilized nations. Much of this happy 
change may, I grant, be ascribed to the benevolent and indefati- 
gable exertions of the ministers of Christianity ; but if these island- 
ers be now clothed in the productions of English industry, — if 
they have adopted our woollens and our hnens, instead of their 
own rude dress, or rather no dress, — if in their habitations are to 
be found many useful articles of English maifufacture, instead of 
their own barbarous utensils, — let it not be supposed that the in- 
creased facility of supplying their wants has not been one power- 
ful means of exciting their desire to procure these enjoyments. 
If the Steam Engine be the most powerful instrument in the hands 
of man, to alter the face of the physical world, it operates, at the 
same time, as a powerful moral lever in forwarding the great 
cause of civilization. We cannot, therefore, recall to our recol- 
lection the invention of the Steam Engine, and follow that inven- 
tion through all its consequences, without feeling the beneficial 
influence of this discovery upon all nations, from those most ad- 
vanced, to those which have made the least progress, in the arts 
and refinements of life. 

The benefits which this discovery has conferred upon our own 
country, as they are more extensive, are also more obvious. If 
this were the proper place, and if I were not afraid of trespassing 
too long upon your time, I could trace those benefits in their de- 
tailed progress and operation. I could show how much they 



MONUMENT TO MR. WATT. 615 

have contributed not only to advance personal comfort and pub- 
lic wealth, by affording to industrious millions the facility of pro- 
viding for their individual wants, by means which directly con- 
duce to the general power and greatness of the state, but also to 
the general diffusion of a spirit of improvement, a thirst for in- 
struction, and an emulation to apply it to purposes of practical 
utility, even in the humblest classes of the community. But it 
cannot be necessary to enter upon so wide a range with the en- 
lightened meeting which I have now the honour of addressing. 
Looking back, however, to the demands which were made upon 
the resources of this country during the late war, perhaps it is 
not too much to say, at least it is my opinion, that those resources 
might have failed us, before that war was brought to a safe and 
glorious conclusion, but for the creations of Mr. Watt, and of 
others moving in the same career, by whose discoveries those re- 
sources were so greatly multiplied and increased. It is, perhaps^ 
not too much to say, that, but for the vast accession thus imper- 
ceptibly made to the general wealth of this empire, we might 
have been driven to sue for peace, before, in the march and pro- 
gress of events, Nelson had put forth the last energies of his 
naval genius at Trafalgar, or, at any rate, before Welhngton had 
put the final seal to the security of Europe at Waterloo. If, there- 
fore, we are now met to consider of placing a monument to the 
memory of Mr. Watt beside the monuments of those who fell in 
the splendid victories of the last war, let it not be said that there 
is no connexion between the services of this modest and unobtru- 
sive benefactor of his country, and the triumphs of the heroes 
which those monuments are destined to commemorate. 

I own that the monument about to be proposed to Mr. Watt 
appears to me to be one of those acts of public duty, to which 
every Englishman of a cultivated mind, following the munificent 
example of the sovereign, should be anxious to contribute. In 
doing so, he will indulge not only a feeling of gratitude, but the 
cheering hope of exciting a spirit of emulation in others; and an 
honest pride, in reflecting that he belongs to the same communi- 
ty of which this highly-gifted genius was a member, and to the 
age in which he lived. 

Long as I have already detained the meeting, I cannot sit 
down without adding one or two short remarks. It has been 
often said, that many of the great discoveries in science are due 
to accident ; but it was well remarked by the President of the 
Royal Society, that this cannot be the case with the principal 
discovery of Mr. Watt. Long and scientific research and appli- 
cation alone could have enabled him to create his Steam Engine. 
Again, it has frequently happened that those philosophers, who 
have made brilliant and useful discoveries, by watching the phe- 



fil6 MONUMENT TO MR. WATT. 

nomena of the physical world, the combinations of chemistry, or 
the mysterious workings of organic life, have only been able to 
turn their discoveries to the purpose of averting evils threatening, 
and often destroying, the precarious tenure of human existence. 
Thus Franklin disarmed the thunderbolt, and conducted it in- 
nocuous through our buildings, and close to our firesides — thus 
Jenner stripped a loathsome and destructive disease of its viru- 
lence, and rendered it harmless of devastation — thus the present 
President of the Royal Society (of whom it is difficult to say 
whether abstract science or practical life has been most benefited 
by his discoveries) sent the safety-lamp into our mines to save (as 
its name implies) their useful inhabitants from the awful explosion 
of the fire-damp. But the discovery of Mr. Watt went further : 
he subdued and regulated the most terrific power in the universe, 
— that power which, by the joint operation of pressure and heat, 
probably produces those tremendous convulsions of the earth, 
which in a moment subvert whole cities, and almost change the 
face of the inhabited globe. This apparently ungovernable power 
Mr. Watt reduced to a state of such perfect organization and 
discipline — if I may use the expression — that it may now be 
safely manoeuvred and brought into irresistible action — irresisti- 
ble, but still regulated, measured, and ascertained — or lulled into 
the most complete and secure repose, at the will of man, and 
under the guidance of his feeble hand. Thus one man directs it 
into the bowels of the earth, to tear asunder its very elements, 
and bring to light its hidden treasures ; another places it upon the 
surface of the waters, to control the winds of heaven, to stem the 
tides, to check the currents, and defy the waves of the ocean ; a 
third, perhaps, and a fourth, are destined to apply this mighty 
power to other purposes, still unthought of and unsuspected, but 
leading to consequences, possibly, not less important than those 
which it has already produced. 

It is. Gentlemen, in the contemplation of the wonderful, but 
most beneficial, change which this single invention has already 
eflfected in the world — in the anticipation of the still further 
changes which it may effect — that I feel most forcibly my own 
want of power to do justice to my sentiments on this occasion, 
and that I gladly relieve myself from any further prosecution of 
the attempt by proposing to you the following Resolution : — 

"That those benefits, conferred by Mr. Watt on the whole 
civilized world, have been most experienced by his own country, 
which owes a tribute of national gratitude to a man, who has 
thus honoured her by his genius, and promoted her well-being by 
his discoveries." 

THE END. 


















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